I married my first wife when she was 18 and I was 20. We went through a lot of hardship. It should not have worked out: we were both poor, from broken homes, in an LDR from different worlds. She was the popular girl, I was a shy and awkward nerd. When we got married, we had only been in one another's presence for a few weeks total. I went into the marriage not expecting a path or plan, as my parents were toxic which ended with my mother's suicide, and my mother in law had been married 4 times before she became single for the last time. None of us had healthy marriages to draw from. At our wedding, her relatives even said, "I give it two years, tops." We were desperately poor, and struggled most of our marriage with health and money issues.
But we made it work for 25 years. We'd still be married, but she passed away ten years ago. We became "foxhole buddies," us against the world.
This, all marriages are supposed to be this, us vs the world, while I get the argument you don't know who you really want when you are 20, I've also seen cases like yours, as long as both people figure out us vs the world, I think the marriage will last. So when people say 25 and after it makes sense, I've also seen cases where people never understand in their life this us vs them mentality, and are never happy and I always wonder the question how much age plays a role in people understand what marriage is supposed to be?
Anyway thanks for your take my man, my condolences, I wish you all the best.
I have neither insight nor retorts to offer, I just wanted to congratulate you on 25 years. Hell, even 5 years with someone who'd dig in with you is worthy of praise in this world. I'm glad you found your foxhole buddy, and I wish you all the best.
I swear some people go out of their way to judge others for the most ridiculous things. Maybe try asking yourself why you are not happy about people finding love without going through half a dozen shitty relationships.
Depends/sometimes.... If it's like you said then 25% of that 60% and you get 60-15=45. If it's some rando looking at 60% total and 35% total and they go "oh neat one of these numbers is 25 bigger/smaller!" Then maybe not?
For real. This post has big "I have regrets and/or fears that I missed out on my younger life, and the only way to not be afraid is to invalidate other people's choices" energy. Every life and every combination of experiences produces a unique piece of art. OP, your life is valid and worthwhile - you don't have to tear other people down for that to be the case.
Oh I have issues with commitment and a constant feeling of ‘Is this the best I can expect?’ but I don’t regret my younger life.
My ‘weird’ sentiment stems more from me looking in from the outside at relationships where 20 year olds decide they want to spend the rest of their lives with each other. I can’t imagine missing out on potentially meeting someone more compatible. Can you really meet the most compatible person for you when you’re 20?
When I was 20 I was a very different person, I’m assuming that’s similar for others.
Other commenters have talked about how they grow with partners but I wonder if it’s truly possible to do that while being so ‘together’ with another person. Some things you have to learn on your own.
Just because you matured late doesn’t mean everyone else does, a lot of ppl are exceptionally emotionally mature by the age of 16 or 17 as well, you should always take a decision based on your maturity level and someone elderlys opinion who also knows you well, like your parents, they probably have a good idea
I honestly don’t know who you’re talking about. I don’t find most adults to even be mature people, especially in relationships. The main thing keeping adult relationships alive is just that they spend most of their time apart from their partner at work.
This is anecdotal but everyone I’ve ever met that made a high school relationship work didn’t make it work through “maturity”. They were just committed. Often, they were extremely immature and naive and were bonded by the hardships of their 20s.
Go ahead and ask people who were together when they were younger and made it work. I’ve never heard any of them say they were mature and knew what they were doing.
Fair point, I think it is just that you should be mature enough to work with you partner together, or atleast one person should be at that time, and if they really love each other, then good
The way I think about it is that the core idea is that you will stick together with your partner through everything and grow together. Most high schoolers don’t go in with that idea, they just have strong enough emotional connections that they stumble into that.
The maturity part of being an adult is knowing that’s what you should do and knowing how to do it without hurting the other person in the process.
It’s like dancing. If someone really wants to dance with you, they’ll be patient as you find your rhythm and you both learn to dance. Feet get stepped on but it’s the same dance. Getting older doesn’t teach you to dance. Being young doesn’t mean you aren’t light on your feet. Maturity in relationships is knowing most of the wrong moves and never dropping your partner.
You can be happy and find love without marrying someone.
Like i think most people would say its weird to marry someone the day after you meet them for the first time, right? Is that you hating peoples happiness and love? or is that you being a realest that that marriage probably wont last and will just be messy for both people?
Wow, really? Sure is an expensive and necessarily painful thing to opt into or to normalize. I'd rather it be normalized to not get married in the first place.
I think a divorce is like $80 where I am, but if you have to go to court obvs it's a lot more. I spent almost nothing on my wedding, granted it was just friends and was an elopement. Marriage has big tax advantages for some, and it's the only way my spouse was getting health insurance to survive this godforsaken wasteland. It also guarantees that they get a slice of my income if the unforeseeable happens and we split so they can survive.
I think people should not see marriage as the end goal, but be pragmatic about its costs and benefits, which I think you are getting at too
It's not that expensive, I did it for $400 amicably. We had a fun time while married and I don't regret it. Why not just make it easier for people to do what they want and not punish young people for making decisions.
It goes up. Now I think people that get married before 40 are weird.
On serious note.... It's any age. You can tell when a couple is just trying to reproduce an image of "family" because they were told it's the next thing to do in life. Working in retail id often see families you could tell just went through the motions and that everyone was disconnected from one another. It's sad.
Imagine the following scenario: you meet someone in college, and when you graduate at 22 you don't want to split up. They say sure, let's live together, but we need to get engaged; if it doesn't work out we can just break it off. After a year you realize your lives are much better together. You decide to get married but not to have kids until you're 30. If it doesn't work out you can divorce, but you sign a prenup and at least no kids would be involved.
If you both have clear and compatible career goals, that scenario saves you a lot of dating drama and gives you valuable support. I wouldn't call someone in that scenario "weird."
Yeah I've noticed at least a lot from my high-school group that dating for about 4 years is a good amount of time, me personally and a lot of close friends seemed to have hit their hardships in a relationship around that 4 year mark. Also moving is a good test about how you do in stress haha
Our way of surviving furniture assembly is for him to Go Away And Let Me Do It, because I can follow directions and he just tries to slap things together without looking xD
I love my husband! Knowing when to just let the other person get on with shit is a pretty good litmus test, I agree, lol.
I just don't get this. I've never had any issues putting together furniture or dated anyone who had trouble with it. I can't think of a single ex where furniture assembly was an issue.
I think furniture assembly is more about being able to work together for a common goal and communicate what you need the other person to do and listen to what they need you to do.
For some reason a lot of people struggle to assemble ikea stuff (I honestly don’t know why, I’ve assembled dozens of items and it’s not rocket science). But there’s definitely been moments when I’ve been assembling some shelf and need my wife to assist with a two person step. If the assembly has been frustrating you have a really good test of how well can the two of you communicate through frustration and work together.
So maybe you are great at ikea assembly and don’t have the frustration factor, or you are a wonderful communicator and listener. For a lot of people though it’s that “this is the 12th step, I’m annoyed because I did the 9th step backwards and had to undo some shit, I’ve stripped this fucking screw… I’m gonna slide this piece and you need to guide it past the shelves, past them, you see how it’s hitting the fucking piece of wood, I need it not to do that!!!”
You probably shouldn’t marry everyone you can build a shelf with, but if you can’t effectively communicate when frustrated doing something trivial like building a shelf with someone you should work on that before tying the knot.
My wife and I have put many IKEA pieces together over the years, and she got her license at age 24 after I taught her to drive stick. We’ve been together 24 years, this coming Friday.
I think the main point here is people around those ages aren't fully capable of making those kinds of decisions in the first place.
There's a reason why most marriages end in divorce after all.
Get married before you have a clue. Get a clue after being married a couple years. Get a divorce because you realize you had no idea what you were doing.
Wife an I met and got married when I was 25 and she was 19. We had some life experience and knew what we wanted. 15 years later, it's still amazing, we're still best friends and inseparable. When I met her I got this weird feeling, like I met someone I had somehow known all my life. It felt like I met my wife in a past life, and was immediately like "oh there you are!" When I met her in this one.
Similarly, my wife and I married at ages 23 and 22, respectively, just over twenty years ago. Altogether, we’ll have been by each other’s side for 24 years this Friday (a date I consider more important than our elopement anniversary) and I can’t imagine anyone else by my side on this stupid, cruel journey around the sun.
I maintain that I was married to her in a past life. From our first date we clicked immediately. It felt like I was back into a groove with someone I've known forever. She came over to stay at my place for the weekend after like our 4th date, she never left. We've been living together since like 3 weeks after meeting, and we have never regretted it. We have kids and love each other and our life immensely.
I'm in my mid-50s. The generation older than me - my aunts and uncles - generally were in school until grade 8 and were out of the house and working by 16. My mother had her older sister as her teacher.
24 is not a child. You can vote drive, drive, drink, marry sign legal documents etc. And at least for women fertility begins to decline at 32. If you mean you will continue to grow as a person and develop new interests that hopefully never goes away. I went to grad school and was in academia for over a decade after my PhD. I have made two major shifts in my career since then. Old people still feel like they are in their twenties or early thirties mentally, we joke about it all the time. So congratulations, this is it.
Yeah. There was a point when I was thinking I'd keep this account professional and share it with my students. Unlike my other social media accounts. lol
at least for women fertility begins to decline at 32.
That's a little bit of a yikes there, buddy.
Edit: and additional "yikes" for all of the people that don't see the problem with assigning a value to women based on how fertile they may or may not be.
Edit 2: tHe QuAnTiTy Of EgGs! Because women only exist to get pregnant.
They said nothing about the value of a woman being tied to fertility, that came out of mind..
As for the decline in fertility statement, that has been scientifically proven for decades and assumed for centuries. Women are born with a set amount of eggs, they typically go through at least one per ovulation cycle, they start reaching the end in their 30s and risks of birth defects start increasing in their 30s
The question was about marriage. There are two reasons that I see people get married. For young people it's about starting a family. However you and I feel about it personally, legal structures that are in place just make it easier when you're married. The other reason is for older people. Pensions and estate planning is easier for married couples. Again, I have opinions about it but it remains a plain fact.
At what age are you supposed to know what you want for the rest of your life? You will never have an answer to that in any capacity, and not just in marriage. You evolve as a person, you'll never have a fixed desire for your whole life. And that's the great thing about marriage and relationships, they also evolve. And it's about who you want to try doing that with
I feel like it might come from the fact most relationships are pretty short before you are 24. Few people hold onto long lasting relationships by that age and few (at the time) short ones develop into anything reliable.
A former classmate of mine met a guy and got married after knowing him almost a year, like right out of highschool. Last I heard of her they went through a messy divorce couple of years later, which we all saw coming and tried telling her about.
That sounds more like an issue with that person not being open/receptive to her peers advice. And I think this is true for many people beyond the age of 24 as well
You seem very emotionally attached to this subject and very heated as you've replied to me numerous times and frankly I don't really care to reply to you because you're annoying and terribly condescending. Tldr next time thanks
The crux of it is at 24 you are still very much closer to being a child still fresh out of school, vs 30+ you’ve been in the workforce and you’re more accustomed to adult life, and as a result you have continued to change and shift.
Your brain doesn’t even finish developing for fucks sake
Not being finished developing doesn't necessitate the inability to make good decisions though. You can still make good decisions and lasting life choices as you go without being finished changing and developing.
I see/hear about marriages started at 30+ 40+ 50+ all the time that fail. I see people pivot careers and industries in the middle years of their life. People tastes change all the time as they get older. Let's not pretend that when your brain finishes developing you suddenly have life figured out/know exactly what you want
I generally agree that getting married before 24 is a pretty risky move and you have to have thought it through very carefully, but the argument that "you don't know what you want for the rest of your life" is not the reason why that is. It relates more to life experience/emotional capability/massive foresight. Marriage is more than just "wanting something for the rest of your life", it's a commitment, it's not just some eternal desire you may/may not have
Nobody said if you marry after 30 it’s a slams dunk you fucking nonce.
Your argument is seriously who cares about the brain developing or pivotal and even just other life experiences in general have yet to happen -/ because people at every age change jobs and divorce and remarry so it doesn’t matter!
What the fuck kind of logic is that?? It’s supposed to be about limiting unnecessary pain and loss that results for uninformed expectations not eliminating all divorce ever. For fucks sake lmao
Jesus Christ, believe what you want. You’ll learn soon enough
Uh, no. If you're just a kid at 24 according to OP, when do you stop being a kid? When OP arbitrarily says so now? Could've sworn legal age meant something like "when you're no longer a kid and can make your own decisions". I mean I agree, 24 year olds are basically kids and still have a lot of life experience to gain. But they're not actually children like you're weirdly implying I'm saying
The age at which you meet has nothing to do with it. Healthy relationships are about evolving together. If you can't do that or if you do it separately, that's when it falls apart. Sometimes you're lucky and you find a compatible person early, sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
Maturity plays a much more important role than age. Some people are never fit to marry, some have what it takes by the time they are 16/17. It's not often that it plays out well for the youngest ones, and since each year brings new experiences and understandings each year moves along the bell curve of "marriage readiness". So is it more likely that a 24 year old is more ready for marriage than a 18 year old. Yes. Is it guaranteed? No. I know some 50/60 year olds that still aren't ready for marriage. They just never learned the skills it takes to have a healthy marriage. Giving an age as a hard cutoff is too arbitrary a measure. Age doesn't guarantee shit.
That's it, end of thread. Maturity plays such an important factor it's astonishing it's not the first thing being discussed instead of an arbitrary number.
As a 27yo, I'm still trying to figure out how to better organize myself. I was one of those kids that never had to take notes in school
And now that's coming back to bite me, because I'm completely new to note-taking, but am working on large 20yo code bases with tons of tech-debt and spaghetti madness. Along with tons of technical jargon in a completely different field. I just can't keep all that in my head anymore
The point is, i feel like an adult in certain aspects, and a child in others
Can we stop extending "just a kid" into ever older years? Society already years anybody under 18 like they're the same as a goddamn fetus. Human life expectancy being what it is, we shouldn't be treating people... not even like they don't know anything but like they couldn't even conceivably know anything for fully a third of it.
I don't know how it is for you, but when I look back at 24-year-old me, I am not impressed. I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of us who definitely don't have their shit together when they're 24. They say your prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until 25 at the earliest, but I feel like it was closer to 30 for me. Granted, I'm kind of a dummy anyway, so this probably doesn't apply to everyone.
I don't look at other people as if they are or were me, I look at them as if they are their own people who may or may not be living their life differently from me.
Me 32, i dont have a fucking clue of what i want for the rest of my life. Maybe those couples that married in their early 20s wanted to explore together what they wanted in life. Good for them.
I understand the roots of marriage, but I want a partner who would be ok with parting ways in the future. We live once, why do we have to commit to 1 person for most of it? Things I enjoyed 5 years ago I don't care for now. Tastes change.
Marriage isn't for everybody, and that's okay. As long as you aren't stringing partners along who are looking to get married when you already know that you aren't, then your choice doesn't seem to be hurting anybody.
I'm 35 and married. Sure, tastes change, but my wife and I chose good partners in each other; we won't hate each other or get irreparably sick of each other, we make a great team, and we understand each other's limitations and are mature enough to ask for help. We let each other in. There is security and stability in marriage. I'm not great at meeting new people, so not having to go on another first date again is a huge relief for me. Making a good first impression is fucking exhausting. In contrast, I know how my wife is feeling pretty much just by glancing at her, and it's really fulfilling to be on the same wavelength as my partner like that, especially because we're also open communicators who can share the honest, fucked up feelings without worrying about judgment. So we're basically each other's therapist, but we share housework and meals and money, and we snuggle and kiss and fuck. I can understand that that's not appealing to everybody, but it's hard for me to imagine a version of myself who doesn't want this. But again, it's not for everybody, and it's perfectly okay to not want it for yourself.
Now that's a healthy relationship. I agree marriage isn't for some, just like having kids isn't for some. To each their own, perhaps my views will change in the future.
Not going to try to change your mind about this opinion, but I'll take a stab at shaming you for being so vocal about a thought that is very much "othering". Maybe turn down the judgement a bit, you don't know people.
What's truly insane is people who marry under 20. And if you think it's possible to know who you are and what you want at that age, you have a very simplistic view of the world. Or you're brainwashed by those who reared you, ie you have a very simplistic view of the world.
No, teenagers are often gifted with some nugget of wisdom or other about their lives, it's just that parents and random commenters online never believe it.
I knew I wanted to get married and to whom. I also knew it was a good idea. I only waited to mid-twenties because she wasn't sure. 30 years farther along, we're still married and teenaged me is proved right.
Cynical, older, slower me might have screwed it up somehow.
Of course I was lucky. The decisions we make around starting a family can reverberate for centuries. Even if we had enough information (we don't), I don't think people are mature enough at any age to make the right call,
I married at 22 over 20 years ago did not regret a day... I think a happy marriage is just a lot of luck a lot of self reflection and effort. No matter the age it is not a self running maintenance free system
I met my wife in high-school, we married at 21/22, it's going to be our 19th anniversary this year. So yeah, definitely got lucky, and I would discourage my kids from doing the same even though it worked great for us.
Very interesting perspective that you wouldn’t encourage your kids to do the same as you, why’s that?
To be honest if my kids married at 20 it’s not like I’d try to stop it, despite my reservations about it. I’d think it was a potential mistake but that’s coming from me as concern rather than disapproval.
100% one of my employees married at 40 and got divorced at 45 life happens no matter the age. If you cannot work on yourself with your spouse and vis a vis you are fucked anyway at whatever age
people in their early 20s are more likely to change dramatically later, so definitely more of a gamble at that age
because it's a gamble, you should already be well prepared for life on your own before doing it; that gives you a solid fallback in case things don't work out
I think overcomming obstacles growing as people together is an experience and bonding I would have never liked to miss. Going from a broke ass Teenager to now was a wild trip and my wife was there the whole time. She changed and I changed but we never changed apart because we communicated about our inner selves
But that's where the gamble is. You changed together and it worked out. Others grow apart through no fault of their own and despite their desire to keep things working, they just don't want the same things anymore. Your and my experience are the lucky ones.
If you live somewhere where life expectancy is close enough to 30 to make that eventuality part of your life choices, then go ahead and marry as a teenager. Don't even wait for 20, marry at 16.
Life expectancy is the age most people live to. Some live less, some live more. You shouldn't make plans heavily counting on one of those exceptions. Don't hurry up to do things just in case you're one of the ones who live less, don't delay things too long because you might live to 120.
Planning for living 30 years only makes sense in a place where most people don't live over that.
someone at 24 has several more years of experience in the adult world. someone at 24 has several more years of neurological development (which isn't complete until around 25). in other words, at 24 someone has better context for decision-making and better decision-making ability than someone who is 18.
indeed, lots of people make poor decisions regardless of age. but statistically speaking, 24 year olds have resources (experience, development) which increase their capacity to make better decisions.
I see a pretty stark difference between people who married young and had kids right away, vs people who married young and enjoyed their time for a while before having kids. The ones who had kids seem weird to me, never got a chance to goof off in their 20s and figure out who they are. The ones who waited feel more normal. But that's just my experience.
The ones who had kids seem weird to me, never got a chance to goof off in their 20s and figure out who they are.
I definitely needed to goof off in my 20s and figure out who I was. But not everybody is like that, and the meme in question suggests it's "weird" to know who you are and not need to goof off.
This is the main point here, IMO. A child is a huge responsibility and the early 20s is a period of life you're still figuring things out. Culture also plays a role here; where I'm from, people are deciding to live together (without having kids) for a couple of years before formally marrying.
Fist-Bump Met my wife in 8th Grade. Got married at 21. Just celebrated our 28th anniversary. I think if the trust, loyalty and love is there, you'll know. Neither of us had a doubt about each other, and we're best friends.
Note: We did take a year or so off around 18-19, too get 'it' out of our systems.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that. I have lived with a persistent background anxiety for my whole life, and only in the last year have I started treating it (in my 40's). It hasn't solved all my problems, but it does mean I'm not constantly jittery. If you're already treating your anxiety, then I can only wish you luck and success.
I met my wife at 37 and married at 39. Best decision I ever didn't intentionally make :)
But looking back, I had a TON of growing up to do before I was ready to seriously commit to marriage the way I personally view it. Pair bonding for life. Sure, people, things and desired change, but I've watched far too many god awful divorces to ever want to go through that, so I wanted to be really sure and I totally was. It's been an awesome 16 years.
If you know you want to marry and have kids, and you know who you want to marry, it's weird to wait, especially since you can avoid being a creaking old person who still has young kids.
I think everybody's different. I mean, there do exist 23 year olds who are incredibly mature and fully formed as human beings, capable of making that kind of a Big Decision, but from what I've seen they're pretty darn rare :)
If we make it to 24 that'd be 8 years of dating and id feel bad not marrying her by then. My only caveat is I want to be out of college by the time we marry tbh
I'll probably still go to grad school but I'd atleast like my BS
That's what we did, it just turned out that we were together for 7 years before everything fell in to place. We got out of college, got our careers in order, and bought a house. Then married the next year.
Good luck with that, in a positive way. That sort of thing is the exception to the rule and when it works out it’s awesome! But it’s important you manage expectations to some degree because if you don’t the end of said relationship can be crushing.
College especially is a place that transforms who you are in many ways. It’s not impossible for couples to stay together but as people change so too do their interests and relationships.
Just don’t have your heart set on the goal and simply hope you land there at some point.
If you think most 24 year olds have got it together and know who they themselves are let alone what they want for the rest of their lives, you’re in for a rude awakening.
Yeah maybe you know what you want at that point but that implies you don’t continue to change and grow yourself. Part of the “you don’t know what you really want” is based on the fact that you are still shaping who you will be and thus your wants will shift in turn
I don't think most 24 year olds have it together. I don't think most people have it together, period. That's the human condition.
But if 24 isn't old enough to make long-term decisions for yourself, when is? Which arbitrary amount of experience is sufficient?
I've been making long-term, life-altering decisions for myself since long before I was 24. They weren't always the best decisions in hindsight, but they made sense at the time. But isn't that how everyone does it?
That said, few people I can immediately see are extremely compatible and uniquely similar would be fine marrying that young. I could see how having a kid even at 20 could be appealing. Imagine being 40, your kid is 20 and finally cool to hang around with while you're still healthy
Married at 23 (wife just turned 21) straight out of college. We were both very immature, and we divorced two years later after she fooled around with her 55 year old boss. Left me devastated at 25 going on 26 thinking I was used goods. After a lot of maturing, a few more relationships, I remarried at 33.
It takes a lot of self reflection - because even though I could chalk up the previous marriage to “lol she a hoe” - I had piss poor financial skills, was very immature and lacked a lot of self confidence which manifested itself in toxic behavior all around. There are times I just cringe at who I was at that age. Not that I’m a perfect person now, I’m just more aware of what I needed to improve in myself to be a decent person and partner.
Part of it is the age old wisdom of learning to love yourself and figuring out what you like, versus just trying to mold yourself into the person you think your partner wants. And not to say that “oh I’m an asshole, They have to deal with it” but truly understanding what makes you tick and finding someone who loves and accepts that part of you.
Married at 23 (wife just turned 21) straight out of college. We were both very immature
Also totally anecdotal: Exactly the same for us, up to this point. Now I'm looking at 36 on the horizon this year, and she 34, and we're still both quite happily married.
My only point being: it just depends on the people. It works for some, and for others it doesn't. I wish I could tell a person which kind they'd be, but I can't.
I will absolutely say, however, it's gonna hurt a whole hell of a lot less to simply wait a bit longer and be sure of what you want, and that you're both in agreement on the major things. It doesn't mean you have to wait in order for the relationship to succeed, but it sure would improve the likelihood that it will.
I am guessing this is mostly informed by your own experience, personally I feel the same, but I was a fucking moron at 24, certainly not ready for something like marriage or kids, hell I am 31 and I still don't feel that way.
Others might feel otherwise or grow up faster, to better parents and that's okay, no need to label people who do things different than you as weird imo.
Kinda had an affair with a woman who married at 24 and regretted not 'playing the field'. She ended up getting pregnant with her husband shortly after and I really hope they make it last, but I have a horrible feeling it was a doomed attempt to fix their relationship with a child.
Met my now wife in high school. We've been together since high school.
We've been married for 5 years now.
I'm 40 next.
So kinda agree with the post, but not the sentiment that if you met your partner early you're weird. I was lucky I met the love of my life so young. Just because you didn't doesn't mean I'm weird, just not as lucky as me.
My wife and I both met at the tail end of college in our early 20s, we knew pretty quickly what we had but we didn't rush things other than moving in with each other after the first year. We didn't get married for another 10 years.
I almost feel like weddings early on can put huge stress on a marriage. Even if you have somebody paying for it all it creates a lot of crap to deal with and you can get forced to meet and deal with a huge amount of new family members all at once instead of slowly integrating into those things over time. We had to pay for our wedding ourselves so had zero rush and invited only who we really wanted to be there, and while it was a blast it was still stressful. But holy shit that limo ride back to the hotel room when it was all over is a top 5 moment in both our lives.
Yeah we got married on our 18th anniversary of being a couple. I always said I didn't believe in marriage and I still think it's a silly idea to be honest.
My argument was that we had made the choice to be together and to be an exclusive couple. There was zero need to get married to have that. It's a certificate that costs a fortune just to have someone else tell us the terms and conditions of our relationship. I had proposed to her a few years into being together and we just remained engaged for a decade or more.
My Wife had an issue before the marriage where she would get odd looks off some people, some of the time, when our surnames came up. My kids had my surname and she had hers, and there's still a stigma to that from some people.
So she changed her name legally to my surname at some point, so we even had that benefit without technically being married.
Then one day she just said "Hey should we get married? Doesn't have to cost much at this point." I had zero argument against it except the tired old arguements of "It's just a bit of paper, we don't need the State to tell us we're together." So we went ahead, and I picked the date of our anniversary so I didn't have to remember another date.
It was a Monday so that immediately cut the people that didn't wanna book a day off work, and it cost us £500 including food and venue (the pub over the road from our house which didn't open during the day on a Monday). And it was a cracking day. We could just wander home if we needed anything, and when we'd had enough drinking we just toddled over the road.
As for the wedding night, my Wife still ribs me for the fact I just rolled into bed drunk and snored.
What we managed to do was prove that a wedding doesn't need to be too much of a stress, or cost the earth, to be a meaningful event. It's still a high-point in our lives, but we didn't really gain anything from doing it.
One thing I will never understand is the people that think that it's an important part of a relationship. A guy at work was talking about the length of his marriage. He is much older than me and was saying he had been married 40 years. I piped up that we had been together for 23 years and married for 5 and he just replied "Yeah but we've been married for 40 years" like the 18 years before our "ceremony" were meaningless. But this is the same guy that asked me yesterday if I was "A Fucking Puff or something" because I've painted my nails black. There's a generation of people still alive that think like this and honestly, I hope it's gone by the time my kids grow up.
Me being an impulsive dork and dumping her for a far less intelligent girl with bigger breasts who didn’t even really happen even. That was it. Game over. She wouldn’t take me back.
TBH I should’ve ended myself then but was too stupid to even realise that was the better option than living another 20 years without her. Still… I wouldn’t have wanted to hurt my parents. Been distracting myself ever since with lots of other stuff. Can’t do it now because of my kids, and mother still alive. Dad fucked in head with dementia. Oh well. Keep trudging on and now have Lemmy to make stupid comments on. Yay.
One foot in front of the other. Look for the positives. Know that the perfection I imagine is nostalgic nonsense and it wouldn’t have worked out anyway.
We’re just meaningless meat bags of hormones and bullshit. Meh. Whatever.
There’s no ‘meant to be’ there’s just ‘is’ , and that too shall pass.
I reckon even Buddha had a chick he wishes he didn’t bail on.
Edit: btw it’s 2:50 for me and have to get up in 3 hours. I’m going to try to sleep.
Cheers.
Say that to the ppl in countries/places where people start working from the age they are old enough to hold tools, or after high school, they or their parents are not gonna bother delaying their marriage well past puberty, it varies wildly depending on the place(and culture), not everyone is living in a rich country and want to complete masters before doing anything else.
Nobody said anything about being rich or completing masters degrees, the crux of it is that you are still evolving as a person so even if you did know what you wanted at 24 it’s not what you want at 30 or whatever.
Did you go into the occupation of your childhood dreams? No? Is it because as you grew you better understood things and your interests deepened?
It’s like that.
These days, a consensus of neuroscientists agree that brain development likely persists until at least the mid-20s – possibly until the 30s.
Well if you want you can marry at 40, your personality will always be changing somewhat based on your surroundings, but if you want to marry at 40, go ahead, no one will (and should) stop you, the problem is that you and the op are saying here that anyone who doesn’t has the same mindset as you as weird, dig about the marriage age of your grandparents or great grandparents, they probably got married before or in their very early 20’s because culture keeps on evolving, and people have always been living good married lives before this notion ‘you should not marry before 25 and the age difference should not be more than 3 years and blah blah blah’
Met my wife in highschool and got married right out of college. We are now pushing 40 and are still happy and content. We were lucky, we grew together and in similar ways, but we also just knew when we knew. We even had twins a few years back and even the stress of that didn't destroy us.
We (hopefully) still have many years together and maybe things will break down, but, so far, neither of us regret marrying so young.
I don't think ppl getting married is wierd before 24 risky sure. Having kids before 24 is crazy. Like 2 years in workforce at minimum. Barely time to be able an adult before a parent.
I much prefer being a young parent, than the idea of raising teenagers in my 50s or 60s. I much rather have all my fun, travel and adventures with my kids or will do with my wife when we're older and the kids moved out
That's fair.
My mom was a teenager when she had me so it's interesting watching her going from rebel teen staying up watching horror movies to ultra Christian as she got older. I feel like my siblings which are all 5 years apart benefited from less beatings and more income. I will say my mom had sooo many marriages (she's on #7). It would've been nice if she found the one before they got baby trapped into our lives. 1-6 were dumb as f.
Personally I loved the huged age gaps between us. Never felt the siblings issues we saw in Malcom in the middle but that wasn't in the cards for me to have as a parent.
So there are plus and minus to it overall.
While I also feel it is weird, I strongly believe marrying kids (<18) should be illegally nationally with no exceptions. I have personally witnessed lives destroyed.
The numbers are not arbitrary. They are used to measure how long a person has been alive, which is kind of statistically significant, and yes, largely correlates with maturity. I'm not 26 mature points, I'm 26 years old.
That's where we disagree. You say that as if it were a proven fact. If you got studies on that, please report.
My point is, that at least from my experience there is a lot more to maturity than mere age. And you can't really know if you just superficially look at someone and their age.
I could see that. As somebody who met my wife in my teens, I never lived on my own except in a dorm room. If I had a decade of the bachelor life first, I think I would have a very different perspective. I would have a different living arrangement to compare with.
As it is, my married life seems like the default. There’s no “it’s better/worse for this reason.” And obviously things are going well. It’s not like you should stick with a shit relationship just because it’s all you know. Unfortunately I think that happens way too often.
The divorce rate among millennials is decreasing in the US compared to earlier generations. That said, reducing it to how long people are waiting to marry ignores a lot of other factors. For instance, low income couples are more likely to never marry, their relationships are less stable, and if they do get married they are more likely to get divorced.
Another thing that's clearly unaccounted for is that people who divorce in their 20's can remarry... and do things differently when they're a little older. Meaning that their lived experience from their first divorce can lead to a healthier marriage later on in life in their 30's. It's entirely possible that WITHOUT that lived experience... they would have had a divorce in their 30's instead.
I’d love to see some studies linking waiting longer to marry and divorce rates
There are so many factors you cannot just point to waiting longer to marry. You say you can’t disprove that’s why, yet we’re all waiting for you to prove it in the first place.
You’re bringing the “fact”, the onus is on you to prove your bullshit
What’s wrong with the divorce rate increasing? Like, no joke, is that not a good thing? More people getting out of bad relationships seems like a better outcome.
That is its own selection... and was #3. There's a 20% difference between the numbers. If it was "just" a nice way to say infidelity then those numbers would be functionally equivalent. But they're not.
No idea... I'm not representative to the 630,505 [supposed] divorces that the study covers...
Why People are Divorcing in the United States
42. Lack of commitment is the most common reason given by divorcing couples according to a recent national survey. Here are the reasons given and their percentages:
Lack of commitment 73%
Argue too much 56%
Infidelity 55%
Married too young 46%
Unrealistic expectations 45%
Lack of equality in the relationship 44%
Lack of preparation for marriage 41%
Domestic Violence or Abuse 25%
If it was "bad" relationship... which I take to mean that the person was being physically/verbally abusive. Then I would suspect that the 25% number would be much higher. It doesn't make sense that "Lack of commitment" as a distinct option would be so high when the others are so low comparatively.
What people view as difference between them is in their own head and based on their own experience. My first marriage, my ex-wife brought drugs into my house. I would absolutely consider that "lack of commitment" based on these options if I was filling out a survey or something (no idea how these values were collected... possibly from the court proceedings themselves? In which case I could look at my own and validate... but I don't care enough.) I was in the military at the time, and drugs is automatic issues. She also wouldn't get and hold a job... so lack of equality could also count, though I probably wouldn't have checked that box. Neither of us were abusive to each other.
That’s not what I meant by “bad relationship”. That would be “abusive relationship”, which is a much worse thing, but included under the umbrella term. I would call your relationship that you just described as a bad relationship. Aren’t you happy that you’re no longer married to her?
Marurity matters, not years . In my parents era 18 was a common marriage age, but they were done high-school and working full time at 16, unless you went to Uni.
No one knows what they want for the rest of their lives when they're 34 anymore than 24. Same for 44, 54, etc. we're all figuring this shit out together.
But I'll pose another hot take:
Marriage is stupid in general. Pledging to commit your life to another person is stupid, and you don't need a church or government to recognize your commitment. If you end up hating each other somewhere down the road (which is likely) there's no sense in continuing to torture each other. It's not good for anyone. Get divorced? Well then what was the point of getting married in the first place? It's supposed to be a lifelong commitment.
I'm not a "stay together for the kids" kind. But if you do have kids, I think you need to try and work shit out, get professional help, etc. Before giving up and destroying everyone's life.
I was recently trying to talk a person online out of marrying someone once the two of them are both 18. It's partly because they're head-over-heels in love with their partner and partly to move out of the US to Canada to escape their trans hostile state. They are trans and their partner helped them through some rough patches. The couple is only now meeting in person for the first time after three years. It was a little frustrating talking to them because I'm a naturally cautious person. My husband and I took about five years from first date to cohabiting to wedding. They honestly sounded like your stereotypical love sick teenager.
I would agree with the general judgement of this cartoon. There's going to be some survivor bias for marriages that worked young. I know a woman who married a man who was in his 50's when she was 18, right out of high school. When he died, she never remarried. But you never hear much about the marriages where an 18-year-old deemed themselves "more mature than those other girls/boys" and it turned into a disaster. They typically don't last that long and no one wants to talk about them much.
I also think that when I see people of that age married or with kids. But I think it's just because of our different life experiences.
I opted to enroll in a PhD right after graduating and so, at 30, I still feel like my life isn't at a point when I can start thinking about kids or marriage. But I know a lot of people enter relatively stable jobs as soon as they graduate university (or high school, although in my circles everyone went to university - it's not as expensive as in the US here). I can understand people in that position starting to think about family earlier than me.
I'm 40ish and I've wanted the same thing since I was 20. Haven't found a good match but nothing has really changed regarding my long term goals and the things I want from life.
Marriage is about my happiness and according to AITA and TwoXChromosome my husband is a toxic spouse and I need to leave him, force my kids into poverty and go out there and just be happy without those lead balloons. Marriage over do it now
On one hand, it kinda is. On the other hand, ppl tend to turn out to be complete jerks, and marriage somewhat protects from the consequences of such a revelation. On the third hand, what Bolex said
So many fucking children in the comments so very sure they know who they are and are totally not going to change and thus can absolutely marry very young.
A lot of them no doubt in for a rude awakening, brain still developing and so many life changing experiences ahead of them…
These days, a consensus of neuroscientists agree that brain development likely persists until at least the mid-20s – possibly until the 30s.
My parents got married when they were 19 and 21. They only knew each other for 3 months prior to getting married even. They're almost 70 now and still happily married.
My husband and I got married when we were both 21. We're almost 30 now and still happily married.
For some, it is possible to know what you want out of your life. For example, I knew since I was 16 years old that I didn't want any children. My husband was a bit younger than me since he knew. We both knew what our general goals were and how to work towards them.
We talked extensively prior to getting married about a lot of things, such as what happens if one of us becomes severely disabled and requires the other to care for us. Our answers aligned really well and on things we didn't align on we were able to come to an agreement that satisfied both of us.
I don't think my case is a common one though. My husband and I have definitely both changed, the difference is that we have changed and grown together. And sometimes it took both of us actively working together to solve any issues.
It is a lot easier to simply wait and skip this process but we were ready to commit.
I'm not disputing the mental and emotional development that occurs throughout your twenties, though I will say things can, and do work out for some. My wife and I married at 21 and 22 almost 30 years ago and we've been together for 36. We're still the best friends we were in highschool and are inseparable.
The trick, for us at least, has always been to not getting into a mindset that didn't allow for us to change and grow while also working to live up to what the other thinks we are.
I'd like to say that we have always been true souls that were focused on each other. Then again, maybe we were just lucky children.
There are some arguments in this thread that are getting dangerously similar to pedo arguments.
Edit:
Who is downvoting me? How am I wrong? Look at all these "age is just a number" comments. All the "some people are mature for their age" comments. I'm not making an accusation, but if you think this is a winning argument with your full chest then my level of concern is rising.
No. Not just "no", hard no. Part of our society's problems stem from how people spend half (if not all) of their 20s partying. This is particularly an issue for us traditional men who want to marry earlier in adulthood but can't find any high value women who aren't feminists who have, let's just say, "been around". Furthermore, when you marry and have kids at an earlier place in your adult life, you get to spend more of your life with your children, see their successes, you get to witness your legacy unfold in real time.
That is what we need more of and I will not be convinced otherwise.
I married my first wife when she was 18 and I was 20. We went through a lot of hardship. It should not have worked out: we were both poor, from broken homes, in an LDR from different worlds. She was the popular girl, I was a shy and awkward nerd. When we got married, we had only been in one another's presence for a few weeks total. I went into the marriage not expecting a path or plan, as my parents were toxic which ended with my mother's suicide, and my mother in law had been married 4 times before she became single for the last time. None of us had healthy marriages to draw from. At our wedding, her relatives even said, "I give it two years, tops." We were desperately poor, and struggled most of our marriage with health and money issues.
But we made it work for 25 years. We'd still be married, but she passed away ten years ago. We became "foxhole buddies," us against the world.
This, all marriages are supposed to be this, us vs the world, while I get the argument you don't know who you really want when you are 20, I've also seen cases like yours, as long as both people figure out us vs the world, I think the marriage will last. So when people say 25 and after it makes sense, I've also seen cases where people never understand in their life this us vs them mentality, and are never happy and I always wonder the question how much age plays a role in people understand what marriage is supposed to be?
Anyway thanks for your take my man, my condolences, I wish you all the best.
I have neither insight nor retorts to offer, I just wanted to congratulate you on 25 years. Hell, even 5 years with someone who'd dig in with you is worthy of praise in this world. I'm glad you found your foxhole buddy, and I wish you all the best.
I swear some people go out of their way to judge others for the most ridiculous things. Maybe try asking yourself why you are not happy about people finding love without going through half a dozen shitty relationships.
Statistically speaking, 60% of marriages between people aged 20-25 end in divorce. Those who wait have a 25% increased chance of not getting divorced.
So you go from about a 1/2 chance of divorce to about a 1/2 chance of divorce. Got it.
Sounds more like age doesn't really matter and emotional maturity matters more.
The difference between 35% and 60% isn't insignificant...
I mean you're not wrong about emotional maturity but the less years you've been alive, the less time you've had to emotionally mature
Just on the math rq, 25% almost certainly means 25% of the risk is reduced… therefore 60%->45%
Depends/sometimes.... If it's like you said then 25% of that 60% and you get 60-15=45. If it's some rando looking at 60% total and 35% total and they go "oh neat one of these numbers is 25 bigger/smaller!" Then maybe not?
For real. This post has big "I have regrets and/or fears that I missed out on my younger life, and the only way to not be afraid is to invalidate other people's choices" energy. Every life and every combination of experiences produces a unique piece of art. OP, your life is valid and worthwhile - you don't have to tear other people down for that to be the case.
Oh I have issues with commitment and a constant feeling of ‘Is this the best I can expect?’ but I don’t regret my younger life.
My ‘weird’ sentiment stems more from me looking in from the outside at relationships where 20 year olds decide they want to spend the rest of their lives with each other. I can’t imagine missing out on potentially meeting someone more compatible. Can you really meet the most compatible person for you when you’re 20?
When I was 20 I was a very different person, I’m assuming that’s similar for others.
Other commenters have talked about how they grow with partners but I wonder if it’s truly possible to do that while being so ‘together’ with another person. Some things you have to learn on your own.
Just because you matured late doesn’t mean everyone else does, a lot of ppl are exceptionally emotionally mature by the age of 16 or 17 as well, you should always take a decision based on your maturity level and someone elderlys opinion who also knows you well, like your parents, they probably have a good idea
I honestly don’t know who you’re talking about. I don’t find most adults to even be mature people, especially in relationships. The main thing keeping adult relationships alive is just that they spend most of their time apart from their partner at work.
This is anecdotal but everyone I’ve ever met that made a high school relationship work didn’t make it work through “maturity”. They were just committed. Often, they were extremely immature and naive and were bonded by the hardships of their 20s.
Go ahead and ask people who were together when they were younger and made it work. I’ve never heard any of them say they were mature and knew what they were doing.
Fair point, I think it is just that you should be mature enough to work with you partner together, or atleast one person should be at that time, and if they really love each other, then good
The way I think about it is that the core idea is that you will stick together with your partner through everything and grow together. Most high schoolers don’t go in with that idea, they just have strong enough emotional connections that they stumble into that.
The maturity part of being an adult is knowing that’s what you should do and knowing how to do it without hurting the other person in the process.
It’s like dancing. If someone really wants to dance with you, they’ll be patient as you find your rhythm and you both learn to dance. Feet get stepped on but it’s the same dance. Getting older doesn’t teach you to dance. Being young doesn’t mean you aren’t light on your feet. Maturity in relationships is knowing most of the wrong moves and never dropping your partner.
Perfect is the enemy of good. If you hold out for "perfect" you will be alone forever.
Bad assumption. Every human life... every experience is different for everyone. Your lived experiences is not sufficient to gauge ANY other life.
This is a choice... and not a requirement.
100% I agree with ya. Surprised to see so many that don't. Interesting conversations going on in this thread though!
You can be happy and find love without marrying someone.
Like i think most people would say its weird to marry someone the day after you meet them for the first time, right? Is that you hating peoples happiness and love? or is that you being a realest that that marriage probably wont last and will just be messy for both people?
Probably 75% of marriages like that don't go well. OP is right.
That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though. Divorce doesn't have to be traumatic, and it should be more normalized.
Wow, really? Sure is an expensive and necessarily painful thing to opt into or to normalize. I'd rather it be normalized to not get married in the first place.
I think a divorce is like $80 where I am, but if you have to go to court obvs it's a lot more. I spent almost nothing on my wedding, granted it was just friends and was an elopement. Marriage has big tax advantages for some, and it's the only way my spouse was getting health insurance to survive this godforsaken wasteland. It also guarantees that they get a slice of my income if the unforeseeable happens and we split so they can survive.
I think people should not see marriage as the end goal, but be pragmatic about its costs and benefits, which I think you are getting at too
All good points.
It's not that expensive, I did it for $400 amicably. We had a fun time while married and I don't regret it. Why not just make it easier for people to do what they want and not punish young people for making decisions.
And yet it's costed others (every day) thousands to millions of dollars
Yes and no... Yes, divorce shouldn't be traumatic. But no, people shouldn't rush into marriage.
Or just be a couple? Save yourselves and everyone else in the families the money and mental energy.
Oh brother
Normalize taking alimony for personal gain
It goes up. Now I think people that get married before 40 are weird.
On serious note.... It's any age. You can tell when a couple is just trying to reproduce an image of "family" because they were told it's the next thing to do in life. Working in retail id often see families you could tell just went through the motions and that everyone was disconnected from one another. It's sad.
Imagine the following scenario: you meet someone in college, and when you graduate at 22 you don't want to split up. They say sure, let's live together, but we need to get engaged; if it doesn't work out we can just break it off. After a year you realize your lives are much better together. You decide to get married but not to have kids until you're 30. If it doesn't work out you can divorce, but you sign a prenup and at least no kids would be involved.
If you both have clear and compatible career goals, that scenario saves you a lot of dating drama and gives you valuable support. I wouldn't call someone in that scenario "weird."
Yeah I've noticed at least a lot from my high-school group that dating for about 4 years is a good amount of time, me personally and a lot of close friends seemed to have hit their hardships in a relationship around that 4 year mark. Also moving is a good test about how you do in stress haha
Been married for 10 years now. There's one thing I've found to be the ultimate relationship tester:
Furniture Assembly.
If you can survive assembling a few pieces of IKEA puzzles together it's probably going to last XD
Our way of surviving furniture assembly is for him to Go Away And Let Me Do It, because I can follow directions and he just tries to slap things together without looking xD
I love my husband! Knowing when to just let the other person get on with shit is a pretty good litmus test, I agree, lol.
Maybe it's bad luck, but half the time the instructions are physically impossible to follow on certain steps.
I just don't get this. I've never had any issues putting together furniture or dated anyone who had trouble with it. I can't think of a single ex where furniture assembly was an issue.
I think furniture assembly is more about being able to work together for a common goal and communicate what you need the other person to do and listen to what they need you to do.
For some reason a lot of people struggle to assemble ikea stuff (I honestly don’t know why, I’ve assembled dozens of items and it’s not rocket science). But there’s definitely been moments when I’ve been assembling some shelf and need my wife to assist with a two person step. If the assembly has been frustrating you have a really good test of how well can the two of you communicate through frustration and work together.
So maybe you are great at ikea assembly and don’t have the frustration factor, or you are a wonderful communicator and listener. For a lot of people though it’s that “this is the 12th step, I’m annoyed because I did the 9th step backwards and had to undo some shit, I’ve stripped this fucking screw… I’m gonna slide this piece and you need to guide it past the shelves, past them, you see how it’s hitting the fucking piece of wood, I need it not to do that!!!”
You probably shouldn’t marry everyone you can build a shelf with, but if you can’t effectively communicate when frustrated doing something trivial like building a shelf with someone you should work on that before tying the knot.
^^^^ Exactly what I meant 😅
Better than teaching stick shift?
If anybody still knows what that is!
My wife and I have put many IKEA pieces together over the years, and she got her license at age 24 after I taught her to drive stick. We’ve been together 24 years, this coming Friday.
She leaves me to furniture assembly thankfully.
The ultimate relationship tester is: moving house
Either that or camping setup
What purpose does engagement and marriage serve there? "Must be this financially trapped to continue?"
I think the main point here is people around those ages aren't fully capable of making those kinds of decisions in the first place.
There's a reason why most marriages end in divorce after all.
Get married before you have a clue. Get a clue after being married a couple years. Get a divorce because you realize you had no idea what you were doing.
This is 100% a data-driven fact. It can't apply to everyone, but it's a really great average.
Those who wait until after 25 have a 25% chance of not getting divorced.
The way you phrased it is not quite what the study says.
They're not "25% likely of not divorcing" (which would mean there's a 75% chance of divorce).
They're "25% less likely of divorcing"
Wife an I met and got married when I was 25 and she was 19. We had some life experience and knew what we wanted. 15 years later, it's still amazing, we're still best friends and inseparable. When I met her I got this weird feeling, like I met someone I had somehow known all my life. It felt like I met my wife in a past life, and was immediately like "oh there you are!" When I met her in this one.
Similarly, my wife and I married at ages 23 and 22, respectively, just over twenty years ago. Altogether, we’ll have been by each other’s side for 24 years this Friday (a date I consider more important than our elopement anniversary) and I can’t imagine anyone else by my side on this stupid, cruel journey around the sun.
That's what I dream of every night
I have a similar story, only we were 35.
I maintain that I was married to her in a past life. From our first date we clicked immediately. It felt like I was back into a groove with someone I've known forever. She came over to stay at my place for the weekend after like our 4th date, she never left. We've been living together since like 3 weeks after meeting, and we have never regretted it. We have kids and love each other and our life immensely.
Ladies and gentlemen, the exception
I'm in my mid-50s. The generation older than me - my aunts and uncles - generally were in school until grade 8 and were out of the house and working by 16. My mother had her older sister as her teacher.
24 is not a child. You can vote drive, drive, drink, marry sign legal documents etc. And at least for women fertility begins to decline at 32. If you mean you will continue to grow as a person and develop new interests that hopefully never goes away. I went to grad school and was in academia for over a decade after my PhD. I have made two major shifts in my career since then. Old people still feel like they are in their twenties or early thirties mentally, we joke about it all the time. So congratulations, this is it.
Yeah, whatever "Dr Bob", do you think you're some kind of doctor or something? Show off...
Yeah. There was a point when I was thinking I'd keep this account professional and share it with my students. Unlike my other social media accounts. lol
Don't do that. Lol. My partner is a professor herself. You don't want to share this stuff with your students. Professional social media is overrated
I didn't in the end. It was mostly because I don't want undocumented interactions. I have a hard enough time getting them to use office hours.
So, you agree with OP? There is not an argument against it here.
That's a little bit of a yikes there, buddy.
Edit: and additional "yikes" for all of the people that don't see the problem with assigning a value to women based on how fertile they may or may not be.
Edit 2: tHe QuAnTiTy Of EgGs! Because women only exist to get pregnant.
How can a fact be yikes? It’s only relevant if women want children, but if they do then the earlier the safer it is.
Why is that a yikes? More birth defects, complications, start running low on eggs. All of that is just facts...
They said nothing about the value of a woman being tied to fertility, that came out of mind..
As for the decline in fertility statement, that has been scientifically proven for decades and assumed for centuries. Women are born with a set amount of eggs, they typically go through at least one per ovulation cycle, they start reaching the end in their 30s and risks of birth defects start increasing in their 30s
So biological facts are now cringe?
I believe you are the one who is confused and making unwarranted assumptions here.
The question was about marriage. There are two reasons that I see people get married. For young people it's about starting a family. However you and I feel about it personally, legal structures that are in place just make it easier when you're married. The other reason is for older people. Pensions and estate planning is easier for married couples. Again, I have opinions about it but it remains a plain fact.
I got married to share healthcare and other tax advantages and do not plan to have children. I'm under 30 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I envy you. My partner and I are DINKs. There has never been a tax break aimed at our demographic. lol.
In fairness, when we had our first at 34 she was a year off being medically labelled a "geriatric mother"
You are the only one talking about tying women's worth to anything
At what age are you supposed to know what you want for the rest of your life? You will never have an answer to that in any capacity, and not just in marriage. You evolve as a person, you'll never have a fixed desire for your whole life. And that's the great thing about marriage and relationships, they also evolve. And it's about who you want to try doing that with
You evolve all the time, but you might have some desires that are fixed for your whole life and you might realize it before you're an adult.
I feel like it might come from the fact most relationships are pretty short before you are 24. Few people hold onto long lasting relationships by that age and few (at the time) short ones develop into anything reliable.
A former classmate of mine met a guy and got married after knowing him almost a year, like right out of highschool. Last I heard of her they went through a messy divorce couple of years later, which we all saw coming and tried telling her about.
That sounds more like an issue with that person not being open/receptive to her peers advice. And I think this is true for many people beyond the age of 24 as well
You seem very emotionally attached to this subject and very heated as you've replied to me numerous times and frankly I don't really care to reply to you because you're annoying and terribly condescending. Tldr next time thanks
The crux of it is at 24 you are still very much closer to being a child still fresh out of school, vs 30+ you’ve been in the workforce and you’re more accustomed to adult life, and as a result you have continued to change and shift.
Your brain doesn’t even finish developing for fucks sake
https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/
Not being finished developing doesn't necessitate the inability to make good decisions though. You can still make good decisions and lasting life choices as you go without being finished changing and developing.
Wow, well said!
Maybe around the year that the brain finishes developing, which can vary from person to person but is typically around the mid 20s.
I see/hear about marriages started at 30+ 40+ 50+ all the time that fail. I see people pivot careers and industries in the middle years of their life. People tastes change all the time as they get older. Let's not pretend that when your brain finishes developing you suddenly have life figured out/know exactly what you want
I generally agree that getting married before 24 is a pretty risky move and you have to have thought it through very carefully, but the argument that "you don't know what you want for the rest of your life" is not the reason why that is. It relates more to life experience/emotional capability/massive foresight. Marriage is more than just "wanting something for the rest of your life", it's a commitment, it's not just some eternal desire you may/may not have
Nobody said if you marry after 30 it’s a slams dunk you fucking nonce.
Your argument is seriously who cares about the brain developing or pivotal and even just other life experiences in general have yet to happen -/ because people at every age change jobs and divorce and remarry so it doesn’t matter!
What the fuck kind of logic is that?? It’s supposed to be about limiting unnecessary pain and loss that results for uninformed expectations not eliminating all divorce ever. For fucks sake lmao
Jesus Christ, believe what you want. You’ll learn soon enough
Yeah I do believe what I want and I'm in a happy marriage thanks! Cheers. I never said to divorce all the time but you're not really reading properly
That might as well be an argument for child marriage.
Uh, no. If you're just a kid at 24 according to OP, when do you stop being a kid? When OP arbitrarily says so now? Could've sworn legal age meant something like "when you're no longer a kid and can make your own decisions". I mean I agree, 24 year olds are basically kids and still have a lot of life experience to gain. But they're not actually children like you're weirdly implying I'm saying
The age at which you meet has nothing to do with it. Healthy relationships are about evolving together. If you can't do that or if you do it separately, that's when it falls apart. Sometimes you're lucky and you find a compatible person early, sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
Seems like 24 is an arbitrary number. Some folks consider themselves "ready" for marriage at 18, some at 40, and some never.
I think its very subjective and situational.
I wonder if OP is 24 and just got married.
Maturity plays a much more important role than age. Some people are never fit to marry, some have what it takes by the time they are 16/17. It's not often that it plays out well for the youngest ones, and since each year brings new experiences and understandings each year moves along the bell curve of "marriage readiness". So is it more likely that a 24 year old is more ready for marriage than a 18 year old. Yes. Is it guaranteed? No. I know some 50/60 year olds that still aren't ready for marriage. They just never learned the skills it takes to have a healthy marriage. Giving an age as a hard cutoff is too arbitrary a measure. Age doesn't guarantee shit.
That's it, end of thread. Maturity plays such an important factor it's astonishing it's not the first thing being discussed instead of an arbitrary number.
24yo people don't see themselves as children. This post is probably coming from a 40yo person.
As a 27yo, I'm still trying to figure out how to better organize myself. I was one of those kids that never had to take notes in school
And now that's coming back to bite me, because I'm completely new to note-taking, but am working on large 20yo code bases with tons of tech-debt and spaghetti madness. Along with tons of technical jargon in a completely different field. I just can't keep all that in my head anymore
The point is, i feel like an adult in certain aspects, and a child in others
Can we stop extending "just a kid" into ever older years? Society already years anybody under 18 like they're the same as a goddamn fetus. Human life expectancy being what it is, we shouldn't be treating people... not even like they don't know anything but like they couldn't even conceivably know anything for fully a third of it.
I don't know how it is for you, but when I look back at 24-year-old me, I am not impressed. I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of us who definitely don't have their shit together when they're 24. They say your prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until 25 at the earliest, but I feel like it was closer to 30 for me. Granted, I'm kind of a dummy anyway, so this probably doesn't apply to everyone.
Just wait. 45 year old me was cringe. And 35 year old me? How did that guy even have friends.
That reads as "I couldn't make those decisions at that age, so obviously no one else could."
I say this as someone that had my first child at 23, after talking about it with my girlfriend since the age of 19.
We don't regret a thing. (Well, apart from not winning the lottery. Yet.)
24-year-old me was an awesome badass and I regret nothing.
What happened man? You used to be cool.
I was a shit person at 24 who knew nothing so everyone must've been a shittier person at 24 who knew even less than me, vibes.
I don't look at other people as if they are or were me, I look at them as if they are their own people who may or may not be living their life differently from me.
Is 18 years a third of your life given todays life span?
Where do you live where the expected life span is just 56? O.o
I think they’re referring to the 24 number op originally stated, that is roughly a third of the life expectancy for males at least.
This. Sorry that was less than clear.
Me 32, i dont have a fucking clue of what i want for the rest of my life. Maybe those couples that married in their early 20s wanted to explore together what they wanted in life. Good for them.
I understand the roots of marriage, but I want a partner who would be ok with parting ways in the future. We live once, why do we have to commit to 1 person for most of it? Things I enjoyed 5 years ago I don't care for now. Tastes change.
Marriage isn't for everybody, and that's okay. As long as you aren't stringing partners along who are looking to get married when you already know that you aren't, then your choice doesn't seem to be hurting anybody.
I'm 35 and married. Sure, tastes change, but my wife and I chose good partners in each other; we won't hate each other or get irreparably sick of each other, we make a great team, and we understand each other's limitations and are mature enough to ask for help. We let each other in. There is security and stability in marriage. I'm not great at meeting new people, so not having to go on another first date again is a huge relief for me. Making a good first impression is fucking exhausting. In contrast, I know how my wife is feeling pretty much just by glancing at her, and it's really fulfilling to be on the same wavelength as my partner like that, especially because we're also open communicators who can share the honest, fucked up feelings without worrying about judgment. So we're basically each other's therapist, but we share housework and meals and money, and we snuggle and kiss and fuck. I can understand that that's not appealing to everybody, but it's hard for me to imagine a version of myself who doesn't want this. But again, it's not for everybody, and it's perfectly okay to not want it for yourself.
Now that's a healthy relationship. I agree marriage isn't for some, just like having kids isn't for some. To each their own, perhaps my views will change in the future.
Not going to try to change your mind about this opinion, but I'll take a stab at shaming you for being so vocal about a thought that is very much "othering". Maybe turn down the judgement a bit, you don't know people.
What's truly insane is people who marry under 20. And if you think it's possible to know who you are and what you want at that age, you have a very simplistic view of the world. Or you're brainwashed by those who reared you, ie you have a very simplistic view of the world.
No, teenagers are often gifted with some nugget of wisdom or other about their lives, it's just that parents and random commenters online never believe it.
I knew I wanted to get married and to whom. I also knew it was a good idea. I only waited to mid-twenties because she wasn't sure. 30 years farther along, we're still married and teenaged me is proved right.
Cynical, older, slower me might have screwed it up somehow.
I'm happy that it worked out for you. I think you got lucky. I don't think most people are mature enough to make such a call at 20yo.
Of course I was lucky. The decisions we make around starting a family can reverberate for centuries. Even if we had enough information (we don't), I don't think people are mature enough at any age to make the right call,
You're weird
I married at 22 over 20 years ago did not regret a day... I think a happy marriage is just a lot of luck a lot of self reflection and effort. No matter the age it is not a self running maintenance free system
Luck is something I didn’t consider.
I met my wife in high-school, we married at 21/22, it's going to be our 19th anniversary this year. So yeah, definitely got lucky, and I would discourage my kids from doing the same even though it worked great for us.
Very interesting perspective that you wouldn’t encourage your kids to do the same as you, why’s that?
To be honest if my kids married at 20 it’s not like I’d try to stop it, despite my reservations about it. I’d think it was a potential mistake but that’s coming from me as concern rather than disapproval.
I doubt waiting makes people any luckier in that respect. In the end, it's a gamble.
100% one of my employees married at 40 and got divorced at 45 life happens no matter the age. If you cannot work on yourself with your spouse and vis a vis you are fucked anyway at whatever age
Two reasons to wait:
I think overcomming obstacles growing as people together is an experience and bonding I would have never liked to miss. Going from a broke ass Teenager to now was a wild trip and my wife was there the whole time. She changed and I changed but we never changed apart because we communicated about our inner selves
But that's where the gamble is. You changed together and it worked out. Others grow apart through no fault of their own and despite their desire to keep things working, they just don't want the same things anymore. Your and my experience are the lucky ones.
And on the flip side you might plan out your life to begin when you're thirty, wait until youre wise and wealthy, then suddenly die.
If you live somewhere where life expectancy is close enough to 30 to make that eventuality part of your life choices, then go ahead and marry as a teenager. Don't even wait for 20, marry at 16.
Likewise, if you live in a place where nobody dies before they reach their life expectancy, waiting might be a good idea.
Life expectancy is the age most people live to. Some live less, some live more. You shouldn't make plans heavily counting on one of those exceptions. Don't hurry up to do things just in case you're one of the ones who live less, don't delay things too long because you might live to 120.
Planning for living 30 years only makes sense in a place where most people don't live over that.
24 is just as arbitrary an age as 18, change my mind
someone at 24 has several more years of experience in the adult world. someone at 24 has several more years of neurological development (which isn't complete until around 25). in other words, at 24 someone has better context for decision-making and better decision-making ability than someone who is 18.
On average sure. But your statement at its face is simply wrong. Older does not mean they make better decisions.
indeed, lots of people make poor decisions regardless of age. but statistically speaking, 24 year olds have resources (experience, development) which increase their capacity to make better decisions.
Yes it's all about mental age and mindset.
I see a pretty stark difference between people who married young and had kids right away, vs people who married young and enjoyed their time for a while before having kids. The ones who had kids seem weird to me, never got a chance to goof off in their 20s and figure out who they are. The ones who waited feel more normal. But that's just my experience.
I definitely needed to goof off in my 20s and figure out who I was. But not everybody is like that, and the meme in question suggests it's "weird" to know who you are and not need to goof off.
This is the main point here, IMO. A child is a huge responsibility and the early 20s is a period of life you're still figuring things out. Culture also plays a role here; where I'm from, people are deciding to live together (without having kids) for a couple of years before formally marrying.
I got married at 22, (wife 21) and on the 17th of Feb we will celebrate our 32 year anniversary. Seems to have worked out ok for me.
Fist-Bump Met my wife in 8th Grade. Got married at 21. Just celebrated our 28th anniversary. I think if the trust, loyalty and love is there, you'll know. Neither of us had a doubt about each other, and we're best friends.
Note: We did take a year or so off around 18-19, too get 'it' out of our systems.
Do whatever you want. Maybe your marriage will last, maybe it won't. Live your life. Take chances.
Hahahahahaha
Cries in paralysing anxiety
I'm sorry you have to deal with that. I have lived with a persistent background anxiety for my whole life, and only in the last year have I started treating it (in my 40's). It hasn't solved all my problems, but it does mean I'm not constantly jittery. If you're already treating your anxiety, then I can only wish you luck and success.
I met my wife at 37 and married at 39. Best decision I ever didn't intentionally make :)
But looking back, I had a TON of growing up to do before I was ready to seriously commit to marriage the way I personally view it. Pair bonding for life. Sure, people, things and desired change, but I've watched far too many god awful divorces to ever want to go through that, so I wanted to be really sure and I totally was. It's been an awesome 16 years.
If you know you want to marry and have kids, and you know who you want to marry, it's weird to wait, especially since you can avoid being a creaking old person who still has young kids.
What you think you know when you're in your early twenties and what you absolutely know in your early 30s are very different things.
You've still got too much of leftover juice from puberty until you hit 27.
Well that’s just like your opinion man. But yeah.
I think everybody's different. I mean, there do exist 23 year olds who are incredibly mature and fully formed as human beings, capable of making that kind of a Big Decision, but from what I've seen they're pretty darn rare :)
If we make it to 24 that'd be 8 years of dating and id feel bad not marrying her by then. My only caveat is I want to be out of college by the time we marry tbh
I'll probably still go to grad school but I'd atleast like my BS
That's what we did, it just turned out that we were together for 7 years before everything fell in to place. We got out of college, got our careers in order, and bought a house. Then married the next year.
Good luck with that, in a positive way. That sort of thing is the exception to the rule and when it works out it’s awesome! But it’s important you manage expectations to some degree because if you don’t the end of said relationship can be crushing.
College especially is a place that transforms who you are in many ways. It’s not impossible for couples to stay together but as people change so too do their interests and relationships.
Just don’t have your heart set on the goal and simply hope you land there at some point.
Worst mistake of my life. I love my kids, though.
If you don't know what you want before you're 24, should you be allowed to make any decisions?
That’s cute
If you think most 24 year olds have got it together and know who they themselves are let alone what they want for the rest of their lives, you’re in for a rude awakening.
Yeah maybe you know what you want at that point but that implies you don’t continue to change and grow yourself. Part of the “you don’t know what you really want” is based on the fact that you are still shaping who you will be and thus your wants will shift in turn
I don't think most 24 year olds have it together. I don't think most people have it together, period. That's the human condition.
But if 24 isn't old enough to make long-term decisions for yourself, when is? Which arbitrary amount of experience is sufficient?
I've been making long-term, life-altering decisions for myself since long before I was 24. They weren't always the best decisions in hindsight, but they made sense at the time. But isn't that how everyone does it?
As a rule of thumb I'd agree
That said, few people I can immediately see are extremely compatible and uniquely similar would be fine marrying that young. I could see how having a kid even at 20 could be appealing. Imagine being 40, your kid is 20 and finally cool to hang around with while you're still healthy
Throwing my anecdotal 2 cents in -
Married at 23 (wife just turned 21) straight out of college. We were both very immature, and we divorced two years later after she fooled around with her 55 year old boss. Left me devastated at 25 going on 26 thinking I was used goods. After a lot of maturing, a few more relationships, I remarried at 33.
It takes a lot of self reflection - because even though I could chalk up the previous marriage to “lol she a hoe” - I had piss poor financial skills, was very immature and lacked a lot of self confidence which manifested itself in toxic behavior all around. There are times I just cringe at who I was at that age. Not that I’m a perfect person now, I’m just more aware of what I needed to improve in myself to be a decent person and partner.
Part of it is the age old wisdom of learning to love yourself and figuring out what you like, versus just trying to mold yourself into the person you think your partner wants. And not to say that “oh I’m an asshole, They have to deal with it” but truly understanding what makes you tick and finding someone who loves and accepts that part of you.
Also totally anecdotal: Exactly the same for us, up to this point. Now I'm looking at 36 on the horizon this year, and she 34, and we're still both quite happily married.
My only point being: it just depends on the people. It works for some, and for others it doesn't. I wish I could tell a person which kind they'd be, but I can't.
I will absolutely say, however, it's gonna hurt a whole hell of a lot less to simply wait a bit longer and be sure of what you want, and that you're both in agreement on the major things. It doesn't mean you have to wait in order for the relationship to succeed, but it sure would improve the likelihood that it will.
I am guessing this is mostly informed by your own experience, personally I feel the same, but I was a fucking moron at 24, certainly not ready for something like marriage or kids, hell I am 31 and I still don't feel that way.
Others might feel otherwise or grow up faster, to better parents and that's okay, no need to label people who do things different than you as weird imo.
Kinda had an affair with a woman who married at 24 and regretted not 'playing the field'. She ended up getting pregnant with her husband shortly after and I really hope they make it last, but I have a horrible feeling it was a doomed attempt to fix their relationship with a child.
Met my now wife in high school. We've been together since high school.
We've been married for 5 years now.
I'm 40 next.
So kinda agree with the post, but not the sentiment that if you met your partner early you're weird. I was lucky I met the love of my life so young. Just because you didn't doesn't mean I'm weird, just not as lucky as me.
My wife and I both met at the tail end of college in our early 20s, we knew pretty quickly what we had but we didn't rush things other than moving in with each other after the first year. We didn't get married for another 10 years.
I almost feel like weddings early on can put huge stress on a marriage. Even if you have somebody paying for it all it creates a lot of crap to deal with and you can get forced to meet and deal with a huge amount of new family members all at once instead of slowly integrating into those things over time. We had to pay for our wedding ourselves so had zero rush and invited only who we really wanted to be there, and while it was a blast it was still stressful. But holy shit that limo ride back to the hotel room when it was all over is a top 5 moment in both our lives.
Yeah we got married on our 18th anniversary of being a couple. I always said I didn't believe in marriage and I still think it's a silly idea to be honest.
My argument was that we had made the choice to be together and to be an exclusive couple. There was zero need to get married to have that. It's a certificate that costs a fortune just to have someone else tell us the terms and conditions of our relationship. I had proposed to her a few years into being together and we just remained engaged for a decade or more.
My Wife had an issue before the marriage where she would get odd looks off some people, some of the time, when our surnames came up. My kids had my surname and she had hers, and there's still a stigma to that from some people.
So she changed her name legally to my surname at some point, so we even had that benefit without technically being married.
Then one day she just said "Hey should we get married? Doesn't have to cost much at this point." I had zero argument against it except the tired old arguements of "It's just a bit of paper, we don't need the State to tell us we're together." So we went ahead, and I picked the date of our anniversary so I didn't have to remember another date.
It was a Monday so that immediately cut the people that didn't wanna book a day off work, and it cost us £500 including food and venue (the pub over the road from our house which didn't open during the day on a Monday). And it was a cracking day. We could just wander home if we needed anything, and when we'd had enough drinking we just toddled over the road.
As for the wedding night, my Wife still ribs me for the fact I just rolled into bed drunk and snored.
What we managed to do was prove that a wedding doesn't need to be too much of a stress, or cost the earth, to be a meaningful event. It's still a high-point in our lives, but we didn't really gain anything from doing it.
One thing I will never understand is the people that think that it's an important part of a relationship. A guy at work was talking about the length of his marriage. He is much older than me and was saying he had been married 40 years. I piped up that we had been together for 23 years and married for 5 and he just replied "Yeah but we've been married for 40 years" like the 18 years before our "ceremony" were meaningless. But this is the same guy that asked me yesterday if I was "A Fucking Puff or something" because I've painted my nails black. There's a generation of people still alive that think like this and honestly, I hope it's gone by the time my kids grow up.
At 53 with a partner and two kids, I am currently in deep, deep depression wishing that I’d married the girl I split up with at 24.
no shame in therapy if you haven't been
I’ve been for other issues but it’s more or less all the same: “pull yourself together, stop XYZ”
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Thought about turning it off, plenty of times. Off. Right off. Like unplugging it completely.
Well, for whatever it's worth, this internet stranger is happy you're still here. As long as you're here, it can get better.
Thanks Baph!
oof
Do you miss the 24 year old girl or do you miss being 24?
The girl, who is now about 49 with two kids.
I’m fine with being oldish. I’m a much wiser and less impulsive person.
I think I may have just gone down the same path and im scared I may have the same realization one day.
Why did you guys split up back then?
Me being an impulsive dork and dumping her for a far less intelligent girl with bigger breasts who didn’t even really happen even. That was it. Game over. She wouldn’t take me back.
TBH I should’ve ended myself then but was too stupid to even realise that was the better option than living another 20 years without her. Still… I wouldn’t have wanted to hurt my parents. Been distracting myself ever since with lots of other stuff. Can’t do it now because of my kids, and mother still alive. Dad fucked in head with dementia. Oh well. Keep trudging on and now have Lemmy to make stupid comments on. Yay.
Hang in there. Consider talking to a therapist.
One foot in front of the other. Look for the positives. Know that the perfection I imagine is nostalgic nonsense and it wouldn’t have worked out anyway. We’re just meaningless meat bags of hormones and bullshit. Meh. Whatever. There’s no ‘meant to be’ there’s just ‘is’ , and that too shall pass.
But yeah , thanks.
That’s a wise take(the first part … until you edited more into the comment) Dwelling on what ifs will never get you anywhere
I reckon even Buddha had a chick he wishes he didn’t bail on. Edit: btw it’s 2:50 for me and have to get up in 3 hours. I’m going to try to sleep.
Cheers.
Sorry re edit. Yes. I’m good at wide takes.
Say that to the ppl in countries/places where people start working from the age they are old enough to hold tools, or after high school, they or their parents are not gonna bother delaying their marriage well past puberty, it varies wildly depending on the place(and culture), not everyone is living in a rich country and want to complete masters before doing anything else.
Nobody said anything about being rich or completing masters degrees, the crux of it is that you are still evolving as a person so even if you did know what you wanted at 24 it’s not what you want at 30 or whatever.
Did you go into the occupation of your childhood dreams? No? Is it because as you grew you better understood things and your interests deepened?
It’s like that.
https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/
Well if you want you can marry at 40, your personality will always be changing somewhat based on your surroundings, but if you want to marry at 40, go ahead, no one will (and should) stop you, the problem is that you and the op are saying here that anyone who doesn’t has the same mindset as you as weird, dig about the marriage age of your grandparents or great grandparents, they probably got married before or in their very early 20’s because culture keeps on evolving, and people have always been living good married lives before this notion ‘you should not marry before 25 and the age difference should not be more than 3 years and blah blah blah’
At that age I was only interested in gaming. Don't know how people have the facility to form long term relationships
Met my wife in highschool and got married right out of college. We are now pushing 40 and are still happy and content. We were lucky, we grew together and in similar ways, but we also just knew when we knew. We even had twins a few years back and even the stress of that didn't destroy us.
We (hopefully) still have many years together and maybe things will break down, but, so far, neither of us regret marrying so young.
I think anyone that refers to an adult as a child is weird.
I’m more referring to myself.
I was in my 20’s once and thought I was a fully fledged adult. In some ways I was, in others I was not, I was still just a kid.
Probably say the same about myself in another 20 years.
I don't think ppl getting married is wierd before 24 risky sure. Having kids before 24 is crazy. Like 2 years in workforce at minimum. Barely time to be able an adult before a parent.
I much prefer being a young parent, than the idea of raising teenagers in my 50s or 60s. I much rather have all my fun, travel and adventures with my kids or will do with my wife when we're older and the kids moved out
That's fair. My mom was a teenager when she had me so it's interesting watching her going from rebel teen staying up watching horror movies to ultra Christian as she got older. I feel like my siblings which are all 5 years apart benefited from less beatings and more income. I will say my mom had sooo many marriages (she's on #7). It would've been nice if she found the one before they got baby trapped into our lives. 1-6 were dumb as f. Personally I loved the huged age gaps between us. Never felt the siblings issues we saw in Malcom in the middle but that wasn't in the cards for me to have as a parent. So there are plus and minus to it overall.
Which always ends up unfair to the parents and children.
I don't trust anybody that isn't a wizard.
While I also feel it is weird, I strongly believe marrying kids (<18) should be illegally nationally with no exceptions. I have personally witnessed lives destroyed.
Putting arbitrary numbers on people to measure their matureness is weird to me.
There are 15 year old people who are wiser and more mature than a lot with 50.
You can't know without knowing the person.
Well it's not arbitrary is it. Any quantitative measure of maturity is definitely correlated with age.
Your "very mature" 15 year old is either an outlier, or an indictment on your ability to ascertain maturity.
Is it? Do you have numbers on that?
The numbers are not arbitrary. They are used to measure how long a person has been alive, which is kind of statistically significant, and yes, largely correlates with maturity. I'm not 26 mature points, I'm 26 years old.
That's where we disagree. You say that as if it were a proven fact. If you got studies on that, please report.
My point is, that at least from my experience there is a lot more to maturity than mere age. And you can't really know if you just superficially look at someone and their age.
Yeah! Just be with them for 15 years dragging your feet like a normal person!
Everyone's weird. Be more specific.
Lol for me all people who marry are weird why draw the line at a certain age
FTFY
As people wait longer to marry over the generations, the divorce rate has increased and level of "happiness" has declined.
Causation yadda yadda yadda. You still can't actually disprove its why.
I could see that. As somebody who met my wife in my teens, I never lived on my own except in a dorm room. If I had a decade of the bachelor life first, I think I would have a very different perspective. I would have a different living arrangement to compare with.
As it is, my married life seems like the default. There’s no “it’s better/worse for this reason.” And obviously things are going well. It’s not like you should stick with a shit relationship just because it’s all you know. Unfortunately I think that happens way too often.
The divorce rate among millennials is decreasing in the US compared to earlier generations. That said, reducing it to how long people are waiting to marry ignores a lot of other factors. For instance, low income couples are more likely to never marry, their relationships are less stable, and if they do get married they are more likely to get divorced.
Another thing that's clearly unaccounted for is that people who divorce in their 20's can remarry... and do things differently when they're a little older. Meaning that their lived experience from their first divorce can lead to a healthier marriage later on in life in their 30's. It's entirely possible that WITHOUT that lived experience... they would have had a divorce in their 30's instead.
I’d love to see some studies linking waiting longer to marry and divorce rates
There are so many factors you cannot just point to waiting longer to marry. You say you can’t disprove that’s why, yet we’re all waiting for you to prove it in the first place.
You’re bringing the “fact”, the onus is on you to prove your bullshit
You must be fun at parties.
What’s wrong with the divorce rate increasing? Like, no joke, is that not a good thing? More people getting out of bad relationships seems like a better outcome.
If you look at the study the number one reason for divorce is "lack of commitment". That doesn't necessarily mean it was a "bad" relationship...
That’s just a nice way of saying infidelity.
That is its own selection... and was #3. There's a 20% difference between the numbers. If it was "just" a nice way to say infidelity then those numbers would be functionally equivalent. But they're not.
Then what does “lack of commitment” mean?
No idea... I'm not representative to the 630,505 [supposed] divorces that the study covers...
If it was "bad" relationship... which I take to mean that the person was being physically/verbally abusive. Then I would suspect that the 25% number would be much higher. It doesn't make sense that "Lack of commitment" as a distinct option would be so high when the others are so low comparatively.
What people view as difference between them is in their own head and based on their own experience. My first marriage, my ex-wife brought drugs into my house. I would absolutely consider that "lack of commitment" based on these options if I was filling out a survey or something (no idea how these values were collected... possibly from the court proceedings themselves? In which case I could look at my own and validate... but I don't care enough.) I was in the military at the time, and drugs is automatic issues. She also wouldn't get and hold a job... so lack of equality could also count, though I probably wouldn't have checked that box. Neither of us were abusive to each other.
That’s not what I meant by “bad relationship”. That would be “abusive relationship”, which is a much worse thing, but included under the umbrella term. I would call your relationship that you just described as a bad relationship. Aren’t you happy that you’re no longer married to her?
Married at 23. Met my husband at 18 on a dating app, was supposed to be a quickie. He's just that charming, and I love him lol.
Marurity matters, not years . In my parents era 18 was a common marriage age, but they were done high-school and working full time at 16, unless you went to Uni.
I'm 35 and I'm still not sure that I'm old enough to get married yet.
I was just a kid... why would you think I'd know better?
No one knows what they want for the rest of their lives when they're 34 anymore than 24. Same for 44, 54, etc. we're all figuring this shit out together.
But I'll pose another hot take:
Marriage is stupid in general. Pledging to commit your life to another person is stupid, and you don't need a church or government to recognize your commitment. If you end up hating each other somewhere down the road (which is likely) there's no sense in continuing to torture each other. It's not good for anyone. Get divorced? Well then what was the point of getting married in the first place? It's supposed to be a lifelong commitment.
I'm not a "stay together for the kids" kind. But if you do have kids, I think you need to try and work shit out, get professional help, etc. Before giving up and destroying everyone's life.
“Baby, this relationship is so good I want to get the government involved”
I was recently trying to talk a person online out of marrying someone once the two of them are both 18. It's partly because they're head-over-heels in love with their partner and partly to move out of the US to Canada to escape their trans hostile state. They are trans and their partner helped them through some rough patches. The couple is only now meeting in person for the first time after three years. It was a little frustrating talking to them because I'm a naturally cautious person. My husband and I took about five years from first date to cohabiting to wedding. They honestly sounded like your stereotypical love sick teenager.
I would agree with the general judgement of this cartoon. There's going to be some survivor bias for marriages that worked young. I know a woman who married a man who was in his 50's when she was 18, right out of high school. When he died, she never remarried. But you never hear much about the marriages where an 18-year-old deemed themselves "more mature than those other girls/boys" and it turned into a disaster. They typically don't last that long and no one wants to talk about them much.
I also think that when I see people of that age married or with kids. But I think it's just because of our different life experiences.
I opted to enroll in a PhD right after graduating and so, at 30, I still feel like my life isn't at a point when I can start thinking about kids or marriage. But I know a lot of people enter relatively stable jobs as soon as they graduate university (or high school, although in my circles everyone went to university - it's not as expensive as in the US here). I can understand people in that position starting to think about family earlier than me.
I don't know about you, but my healthcare plan only covers memes.
Kids make bad decisions sometimes. It’s not weird.
I'm 40ish and I've wanted the same thing since I was 20. Haven't found a good match but nothing has really changed regarding my long term goals and the things I want from life.
@[email protected] Could you share the meme template, please? =)
Here you go.
Thank you.
On my phone, I would download the image and use the gallery's Erase Object function to remove the text. Just a thought.
Marriage is about my happiness and according to AITA and TwoXChromosome my husband is a toxic spouse and I need to leave him, force my kids into poverty and go out there and just be happy without those lead balloons. Marriage over do it now
Concept of marriage is weird and feels like some weird breeder shit imo
It is a religious ceremony and should hold no legal bounds. Most benefits of marriage should be considered something else. Marriage is fuckin weird
On one hand, it kinda is. On the other hand, ppl tend to turn out to be complete jerks, and marriage somewhat protects from the consequences of such a revelation. On the third hand, what Bolex said
So many fucking children in the comments so very sure they know who they are and are totally not going to change and thus can absolutely marry very young.
A lot of them no doubt in for a rude awakening, brain still developing and so many life changing experiences ahead of them…
https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/
I guess you can’t blame them… they don’t know what they don’t know
My parents got married when they were 19 and 21. They only knew each other for 3 months prior to getting married even. They're almost 70 now and still happily married.
My husband and I got married when we were both 21. We're almost 30 now and still happily married.
For some, it is possible to know what you want out of your life. For example, I knew since I was 16 years old that I didn't want any children. My husband was a bit younger than me since he knew. We both knew what our general goals were and how to work towards them.
We talked extensively prior to getting married about a lot of things, such as what happens if one of us becomes severely disabled and requires the other to care for us. Our answers aligned really well and on things we didn't align on we were able to come to an agreement that satisfied both of us.
I don't think my case is a common one though. My husband and I have definitely both changed, the difference is that we have changed and grown together. And sometimes it took both of us actively working together to solve any issues.
It is a lot easier to simply wait and skip this process but we were ready to commit.
I'm not disputing the mental and emotional development that occurs throughout your twenties, though I will say things can, and do work out for some. My wife and I married at 21 and 22 almost 30 years ago and we've been together for 36. We're still the best friends we were in highschool and are inseparable.
The trick, for us at least, has always been to not getting into a mindset that didn't allow for us to change and grow while also working to live up to what the other thinks we are.
I'd like to say that we have always been true souls that were focused on each other. Then again, maybe we were just lucky children.
There are some arguments in this thread that are getting dangerously similar to pedo arguments.
Edit:
Who is downvoting me? How am I wrong? Look at all these "age is just a number" comments. All the "some people are mature for their age" comments. I'm not making an accusation, but if you think this is a winning argument with your full chest then my level of concern is rising.
24? Fuck that, 26 at least. Gotta give your brain as much time to develop before committing to something like that
No. Not just "no", hard no. Part of our society's problems stem from how people spend half (if not all) of their 20s partying. This is particularly an issue for us traditional men who want to marry earlier in adulthood but can't find any high value women who aren't feminists who have, let's just say, "been around". Furthermore, when you marry and have kids at an earlier place in your adult life, you get to spend more of your life with your children, see their successes, you get to witness your legacy unfold in real time.
That is what we need more of and I will not be convinced otherwise.
Ew