Gotta agree with you here Velma. The beauty of Lemmy isn't that it attracts or allows different people, but that we aren't advertised to, and we are able to block instances or communities that don't work for us, and we are able to fully curate our home pages without being shown posts from completely unrelated pages just because they paid money to be boosted. Once that is done and we have found and settled into our spaces, that is where the good interactions come out.

Misogyny is just as rampant here as any online space, it's a systemic issue, it was not a reddit/4chan-exclusive issue. It existed before and will outlast reddit/4chan until we solve the actual fucking problem: men are both socialized and continually encouraged to fundamentally disrespect women. They need to do just as much brain-rewiring as we do when we combat our internalized misogyny.

Especially since they are hard-wired to just not notice it - hence why we constantly get told we are overreacting - to them it comes out of left field because they do not see what we see.

The real piss off with that is that while I realize it isn't their fault they are socialized that way, if they really want to believe that they, individually, are one of the "good ones" (as in, the non-problematic men, the ones not contributing to the problem) they can't justify that belief unless they are actively listening when we tell them what we experience, or how something comes across from our perspective. So many of them want to push the problem down by saying "nuh uh" or arguing with us about our own damn experiences

Its fucking asinine.

These are such fun interactions if you have the mental/emotional capacity for them lol. I'll bet he learned a lot that day!

It's so refreshing!

I'm a brand new subscriber because of that thread! So many great and well thought out responses :)

I feel so welcomed 😊 happy to now be part of such a wonderful group of femmes and femme-adjacent folks!

You make a super good point and I don't know why I didn't think of that in my initial comment!

Context in setting is soooo important. When I was typing out my intial comment I totally just had a vision in my head of being out in the general public, at a bar, grocery store, bus stop, mall, etc. I didn't even think about music festivals!

That being said, there seems to be a pretty good general consensus about, well, consent and the understanding thereof, at least at the festivals I attend regularly.

But no you are totally correct in that there is a time and place for that kind of assumed rapport (if that wording makes sense) based on the specific community's unwritten social rules. I've even directly experienced this so I don't know how I glossed over it, so thank you for making that point!

Absolutely! Your existing rapport with a person really informs what is acceptable socially going forward. My friends and I are extremely flirty with each other, but that takes into account that we know each other and we know what is acceptable and we know that the other person will inform us if we've gone too far.

When you're a stranger, however, all bets are off as far as what's acceptable goes, so it's important to make sure you're representing your intentions honestly, accounting for the other person's perspective as well.

I wasn't talking about flirting?

Which is ironic because those school children they are bombing (palestonians) are also Semitic.

Hahaha well thanks! I am also in a committed and very long-term relationship with a fellow metalhead.

Boy do i love being strong, haha, I was blessed with shoulders built to carry a yoke.

That is so kind, thank you!

Fair enough!

Relationships and dating are messy, but i have a question for you:

Is it more important for you to signal that you are attracted to this woman you've never interacted with, or is it more important to just strike up a standard conversation and treat her like any stranger you meet?

In my experience as a woman, men often don't realize that they are very clearly signaling their sexual attraction/view of this woman as a romantic prospect, which doesn't seem like much of an issue except for the fact that you've never actually spoken to this woman.

Ergo, the woman is fully aware you are attracted to her and view her as a prospect purely because of how she looks -- this is objectification as you have no idea whether you are compatible.

You are far likely to get a positive response if you treat her like literally any other person and not a prospect. We don't like being objectified by strangers, but we don't mind making new friends. Save the romance for after the first conversation at the very least.

This is not me telling you youre doing anything wrong, but im pointing out something a lot of men do not even realize they are doing when they approach a woman. We can usually see men's intentions, they are not good at hiding them. Change your intentions from "i wanna date this woman" to "id like to see if this person is down for a conversation".

As someone with a binge eating disorder (grew up playing hockey on 2 teams in highschool as well as reffing - literally on the ice every night - did not have to worry about my diet until my adulthood), 100% agree. Calorie counting in conjunction with increased cardio and weight lifting is the only thing that has worked for me

Of course, people with a tendency to develop anorexia or purging eating disorders should probably stay away from calorie counting as that can trigger dangerous disordered eating. Very important to know what works for you personally.

You make some really good points that are really good in conjunction with, but don't fully dispute my point.

I like that you point out that sexual attraction and a dating connection are different though not mutually exclusive. I also like that you brought up female sexual liberation and the assumption that most women don't want one night stands (they very often do!).

I guess I'll clarify my initial point. I think a lot of men grow up thinking women are very different from them, so they add all this extra pressure on themselves specifically on interactions with women, and women can generally tell. I guess what I'm truly trying to say here is that putting women you've never met on a pedestal (eg. She's so pretty, I have to tell her how beautiful I think she looks or use the perfect pickup line so this beautiful woman will go on a date with me) is just another form of objectification.

To give personal anecdotal context just so you can fully grasp the feeling im frustrated with: I'm weird. I'm fairly attractive and I do get approached, but i am fucking weird. I do not want a man who does not know me to approach me telling me how beautiful he thinks I am, expecting to get my number, because I know damn well that there's a high chance that if I give it to him, he will quickly realize how fucking weird I am and ghost me.

I don't mind if somebody says "hey I really like your band shirt/your shoes/your hat, etc." -- or my jacket with my patches on (always a great convo starter) -- always love when somebody likes a band i also like! But this means its an open conversation with no assumptions being made.

Basically, have a full conversation with me before you ask for my number, then we can see where this could go. I intentionally show my weird very quickly in conversation so people know what they are getting into.

So yeah, I don't think you're wrong, but I do think potential dating/sex/friendships can be approached all the same, unassuming way. People are people, and I don't wanna give my number to somebody I've never spoken to because he thinks I'm pretty. Please give me a better reason to continue interacting basically.

Right?! It is absolutely insane, but so many guys will do that. There are so many things guys do that other guys don't believe because they're fuckin insane things to do lol

My point is treat women like you're trying to make a friend, not like a person you are trying to date because you don't know enough about them as a person to even know if there will be a connection.

If you'd approach people you don't know for dates but not friendship, that's your own problem and maybe something to work on.

Women don't want to be liked for how they look, they want to be liked for who they are.

I do 1000% agree with this.

So in general im not saying it never works to approach somebody telling them they're hot, but you really cannot fault a woman for not liking it because there are tons of valid reasons not to. Mostly I'm annoyed at guys who only do this and hate women for responding in a way they do not like, or claim women do not like them when they've literally never tried anything else and refuse to listen to women when they tell them how they want to be approached.

But fuck ya if you're a slutty man at a party and wanna put out flirty slut vibes to find a slutty woman, I'm sure you'll find one (hell, you'll likely get approached!). As long as everyone's being honest, yknow.

Edit: i see you edited your comment, but ill leave mine as-is because it could be useful to somebody

I actually talk to strangers super often lol. I really like metal music so, for example: I saw a guy at my gym with a Cannibal Corpse tshirt and I just said "hey man, by the way, I really like your shirt", and now we say hi when we see each other.

I have another male friend at the gym who literally approached me and said "wow, you lift heavy" (note that you can absolutely say this to a man, this is not a gender specific comment) - I enjoyed that interaction, it was honestly great and made me feel good because it was clear that I was working hard and it was a recognition of that work. It felt like respect.

I talk to strangers at concerts A LOT, especially when out for a smoke (great place to meet new people, you don't even have to smoke). It's important to have an end to the convo built into your greeting, because you can gauge pretty easily whether somebody wants to continue talking based on their response. If you have these little interactions frequently enough, people that share public spaces with you will just start to recognize you.

Idk I've been doing this forever and I didn't think it was that foreign a concept to people. Maybe it depends on where you're from.

Hey! I just responded to another comment that qarbone made and I think it adequately covers a lot of this stuff too.

I'm very much not trying to say it's always intended to be objectifying, but that it feels objectifying when somebody leads with that, because people are more than that. And if you are trying to strike up a conversation with a woman, considering how something feels to her, regardless of your intention, is important because it will dictate her response.

To me, a man I've never met approaching me saying "I think you are hot" reads to me like "I saw you and I covet you, and I don't care much about your substance."

You are allowed to think a woman is hot, but perhaps don't lead with it because it signals that is the only reason why you are talking to her, regardless of if that is true or not.

Women are often very intentional with their fashion, so a tried and true way of striking up a convo in an unassuming way is to comment/compliment on a choice they made

Example: "I really like your shirt/bag/shoes/jacket, etc., it looks really cool!/goes really well with your outfit!" (Make note of the adjectives. Do not call a stranger hot/sexy/etc. In the first sentence - that puts unneeded pressure on the interaction because we do not know what kind of guy you are - keep the compliment neutral, like how you'd compliment a guy)

It's important to note that your intentions do not matter if they do not match your perceived intentions.