YSK: Signal is a great secure private messenger app comparable to others on the market.
"When you use Signal, your data is stored in encrypted form on your devices. The only information that is stored on the Signal servers for each account is the phone number you registered with, the date and time you joined the service, and the date you last logged on."
This isn't an ad, I wasn't paid for this post. Just to clear the air: fuck facebook, fuck elon musk and twitter, fuck anyone who thinks this is a paid advertisement. I wish I was paid for this shit, I just wanted to spread the word. Thank you. 😀 👍
https://restoreprivacy.com/secure-encrypted-messaging-apps/signal/Open linkView original on midwest.social1588
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I still wish they hadn't dropped sms on android. A few family members dropped signal as soon as they needed another app for messaging.
I still don't understand why they did that, I used to use Signal for everything and while it was clear that it couldn't encrypt basic SMS I could at least do all my messaging in one place. Now, I can't communicate with 80% of my contacts via Signal even if I wanted to, forcing two separate messaging apps.
Just let me send unsecured messages. It's fine. As it stands now I don't think I've even opened Signal in nearly six months even though I'd much rather use it than the default messenger.
Basically, it makes the whole platform less secure because you could accidentally send a non-encrypted message at any time. With SMS-free Signal, at least mistaken sent messages are still E2E encrypted.
Is their goal to become the new de-facto messaging app? Or is their goal to become the most secure messaging app for whistle blowers, etc for whom a single mistake could mean losing their life or their freedom?
Have unsecured messages be opt-in and have a warning banner on non-encrypted messages. Maybe even a confirmation dialog.
That way people who want or need to be that paranoid can be, but the rest of us can have something a bit more convenient.
By disallowing SMS messaging they've just made it so a lot of people who were being secure when their contacts allowed, aren't being secure at all.
If they are so concerned about the privacy and lives of whistleblowers they should implement usernames (and multiple accounts) instead of forcing people to give their cell phone numbers to others.
The use of cell phones in an app supposedly made for dissidents and whistleblowers is the stupidest decision I've ever seen.
Yeah, I'm basically in this boat. My OS is what brings my notifications together, and makes clear distinctions between the different apps I utilize. I don’t need one app to do everything. I use signal for sensitive business, having conversations about projects and sending credentials to coworkers. I use Teams for general work conversations. I use iMessage for nearly all other casual conversations - of those maybe 30% are SMS.
As an Android user, all I have to say is fuck iMessage. Dark pattern, anticompetitive piece of shit.
I think you mean Apple. Apple is an anticompetitive. They don't want people to leave their ecosystem the moment they've bought a signal apple product.
I mean, you can see at least one reason I’m sure
I only communicate with two people in signal. I still use it because I genuinely despise Android messenger.
2 people, one of which is your relative and the other drug dealer I imagine
Downvoted but the only people I know who used signal were drug dealers/users
Interesting. I use signal with my family, coworkers, and some friends. Never once done drugs, and only a couple people I know that use it did drugs in the past, and didn't use signal then.
Sadly, I think they saw the writing on the wall with Google's RCS push, and the decided lack of RCS APIs for Android apps to implement an RCS interface outside of Google. SMS has a lot of staying power, so it won't happen overnight. But there's a good chance that third-party RCS apps on Android will never be a real thing, or will forever end up hobbled. I think the Signal product folks imagined they had a LOT more clout than they actually had in the community. Sort of a less disastrous version of the Twitter and Reddit changes this year, trying to lock folks in.
The RCS issue hits the nail on the head I think. It's really the biggest stumbling block for everyone at this point.
Still fascinates me how many folks in the US use SMS. It’s been dead for over a decade now over here. I mean I would have expected it to stay with a lot of folks using feature phones. But that also not the case as far as I know.
Because it's a universal standard. It doesn't matter if they have an android, and apple, a microsoft phone, some LG flip phone- SMS Just Works.
And the fact that Signal has dropped support for it is why Signal no longer works and has lost basically it's entire US/European market, because it's now just another walled garden that needs people to get people- and it doesn't have the people.
I thought most parts of Europe are the ones that dropped SMS
Cuz, it was about killing functionality in order to grow their market share. Just go listen to the new lame ass Signal CEO. It's capitalism that ruined Signal like it does everything
What are you talking about? Where did they say that? How does capitalism ruin a non-profit organization? It makes absolute sense for them to have removed SMS. Here’s their statement about the removal: https://www.signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/
Yeah this same thing happened to me. I rarely get messages in signal anymore and can't reliably know who still has it installed. It's great for folks you are in regular communication with though.
I made it easy by making it the only messenger I use. Sure, you can send me a sms, but that's not gonna work for pictures and especially videos.
Yupp. Had been working for a while on getting people to Signal, and then they dropped SMS, and they moved to other things and i couldn't realy recommend it anymore.
Not only that, it makes people less likely to move to something new. I had almost everyone moved to signal. Now there's one left, because it doesn't work for SMS. Great choice they made. I haven't even been able to convince one of my contacts to install simplex, and I doubt I'll ever be able to. I had one shot, and wasted it on signal. I'm kind of salty.
I removed it immediately because of this. It's inconvenient to try and remember who I can communicate with through signal, and who I have to use a different app for. Signal jumped the shark.
This was always the hardest part of these types of apps for me... getting people who just want something to work and already have a working thing are pretty impossible to get to swtich
Yup, I used Signal for years, it was my standard "messager" for everyone, people with Signal too or regular SMS. since they dropped SMS, I dropped Signal...
First ad I've seen on Lemmy so far
nature is healing
We were here for it!
I'm fine about ads on Signal. It is a none profit. 😉
The worst part of using Signal is to try and convince all your friends/family to use Signal. Otherwise it’s a pretty great messaging app. You can’t edit messages once they’re sent, but other than that it’s pretty great.
I used to donate to Signal, and they made the stupidest fucking decision I've ever seen.
You used to be able to use signal (at least on Android) as your default messenger app, sending encrypted Signals to other users, or SMS to non-signal users. Have a normie family member who doesn't know about computers? Easy, set it & forget it.
Now? They removed that functionality, so it only works for other signal users. Someone else had a good metaphor: imagine if http and https needed different web browsers & you couldn't see one on the other. How well do you think https uptake would have been?
So fucking stupid.
I think that might be a narrow view though. Most of the world likely doesn’t use SMS anymore (for probably a decade). So removing SMS didn’t make much of a difference there, but increased security. Especially when people are used to use multiple apps anyways.
So the better analogy would be “imagine if gopher and http needed separate browsers”. Except they do.
Wow, so I guess all the countries in the world that DO still use it primarily, including the US, most of Europe, canada, etc, can go screw themselves?
Nobody wins when you try to gatekeep security. Stop doing that.
German here. Nobody ever uses SMS, literally nobody. They are only used for 2fa.
I'm aware of few people who use SMS in Europe, and very few people who use it as their primary means of texting; I've even seen people outright ask that they not be sent SMSs. WhatsApp is almost ubiquitous, and it often feels like it's assumed everyone has it, even if they don't use it as their primary texting method.
It does seem very common in the US, however.
Yeah. That’s my experience as well. I will also ask people to stop sending me SMS. The last time that happened was probably over 10 years ago though. Everyone I ever met (except for US folks) uses messengers nowadays. I mean even a lot of US folks use iMessage instead of SMS. Even though that’s weird as well. Since I would expect folks to use some universal app that isn’t restricted to a specific phone brand.
i miss SMS, makes it easy to sneak in a change. swap them to signal, where they do their SMS, and as people become signalified, then they start sending them signals. It was such a market creator for little cost.
Oh well.
50% of the US uses Android. All android phones can text each other & iPhones by default via SMS in the US. The United States is 300 million people, and also the literal home of the Signal Foundation.
You're right, that is a good analogy. Https used the same browser as http, and now https is widespread. Gopher needs a whole separate browser. It's niche. Good security only works if people actually use it.
The US is a weird place. Feels like such a modern country but then they use technology from the last century and no one seems to question that …
That has not been the case from what I've seen (I'm Australian). The only widespread methods of communication I see are SMS and iMessage. Things like Discord and Instagram are only used among younger people.
Edit: Actually people do use Facebook messenger. Don't know how many though
50% of the US uses Android. All android phones can text each other & iPhones by default via SMS in the US. The United States is 300 million people, and also the literal home of the Signal Foundation.
You're right, that is a good analogy. Https used the same browser as http, and now https is widespread. Gopher needs a whole separate browser. It's nice. Good security only works if people actually use it.
Lmao WHAT? They seriously did this? Yeah say goodbye to having my boomer parents understand anything else other than what’s loaded on their shitty $50 android phone they got for free from their shitty CDMA provider…
I hear you, but, SMS is the farthest from secure you can get - so I can see why they chose not to support it.
A really secure messaging system is worthless if it's not used. SMS too insecure? Ok, change the UI to reflect that. Have an open lock symbol or eye. Notification reminders that it's insecure & nudge to invite your friend to Signal.
Boomer parents using Signal & now it doesn't support SMS? Congrats, now the app doesn't work to message the majority of their contacts. The average user isn't going to check if someone's on signal, send them an invite, then wait to message until they get the app. They'll just move to their (Android) default message app that literally works with all US phones. Congrats, now less signal users, gj .
A really secure messaging system is worthless if it's not used. SMS too insecure? Ok, change the UI to reflect that. Have an open lock symbol or eye. Notification reminders that it's insecure & nudge to invite your friend to Signal.
Boomer parents using Signal & now it doesn't support SMS? Congrats, now the app doesn't work to message the majority of their contacts. The average user isn't going to check if someone's on signal, send them an invite, then wait to message until they get the app. They'll just move to their (Android) default message app that literally works with all US phones. Congrats, now less signal users, gj .
But you CAN delete messages for after they are sent if the chat is set up that way. You can also set chats up so that messages can't deleted. Or so that all messages expire and disappear after a period of time.
I wish they hadn't gotten rid of SMS though, that was the biggest sell for me over other options. I'm never going to get more than 2 or 3 people I regularly text to switch...
Yes lol same. And because of the verification code that needs to be typed in every so often, my messages never reach them. I have to text them, “hey go to signal”, and then it finally goes through.
Fun fact: on Android after not using an app for more than three months (the exact time can vary by manufacturer) the OS will remove permissions including notifications (suppressing the app's ability to run in the background) to save battery. So the app will literally stop working.
For a seldom used app like Signal that's hurt from a lack network effect, this triggers a death spiral outside of the privacy enthusiast community. When it had SMS support this guaranteed some usage, but now that's gone.
i too miss this. capture the messaging market, and keep the stock SMS function!
With this move, i am more keen to see matrix make it to the big leagues.
Question though? Why did they get rid of sms functionality?
Because they turned away from the original founder's philosophy, which is that 'perfect security' is a pie-in-the-sky novelty that isn't actually useful to anyone, and what's actually important is security that people actually use. Even if it's slightly less secure, it's still a net positive because people are actually using it.
When he left, a google CEO took over and frankly it's just been one terrible decision after another- cryptocurrencies, 'stories', stickers, removal of SMS, all kinds of stupid shit that drove people away.
I used to have nearly 50 people on my signal contacts list. Now there are 3.
There's some misinformation in there. The original CEO - Moxie stepped down in Jan 2022. Stickers and crypto functions were developed strictly under his watch. Stories came after. Nevertheless Moxie presided throughout the vast majority of Signal's history. Moxie has been at the helm since Signal was Whisper Systems around 2010.
Here in the Netherlands no one uses SMS, purely Whatsapp. So removing this functionality, though often complained about by people presumably from the US, did not hurt functionality at all here. I also like the features like Stories, it's a direct competition with Instagram/Snapchat, though just like Whatsapp Stories, barely anyone will use it.
Yes I am in the US and I understand that this is a US centric problem though SMS is the feature that set signal apart from other secure messaging apps and made it slightly easier to get people to join. It was a nice alternative to imessage on android as opposed to yet another messaging app. Even in the US I have had to use SMS, WhatsApp, fb messenger, instagram's DMs, Line, Group me, Matrix, etc, to talk to different people and I was not going to convince many to switch to signal (I tried).
I have been disappointed by Signal a lot.
Signal is great for communicating with people you don’t mind sharing your identity with. Would love to see signal implement usernames. I’m really into simpleX chat these days —really cool project.
SimpleX looks interesting, thanks for sharing!
The iOS notification implementation isn’t super reliable yet but it works if you leave the app open
My favorite part is that you can easily self host your own server with a docker container
You can also use their CLI app to send yourself all sorts of notifications from all your selfhosted services. The only really irritating thing is that they won't provide an arm binary, and compiling the app on arm is... decidedly not easy.
Yeah, then they got rid of SMS capabilities.
Is this an ad? It feels like an ad.
Anyway I much prefer Signal but thanks to boomer co-workers I'm still also forced to use Whatsapp.
I use Signal but it's on its own path to becoming enshittified too. Less like Reddit, more like Firefox, the people in charge are just clueless about the signal userbase.
It won't be long until there's a shift to an alternative because the current president of the signal foundation is one step away from turning it into Snapchat.
Instead of pumping money into increasing awareness or enhancing reliability of the service, the Signal team have wasted effort on features that nobody asked for, including its very own crypto shitcoin (a major red flag for any company). They also remove features people relied on, such as SMS support.
It's hard to trust the Signal team when they continually disappoint in such egregious ways.
Tried to switch to signal. But it's useless without everyone i know switching over from Whatsapp. Which is like merged with our country at this point.
I just wasn't budging. Refused to use WhatsApp and texted people instead. Slowly a lot of my friends switched and realised signal is better in every way. Even my parents find it the best as it is the easiest for them to use.
Yeah not going to happen for me unfortunately
Yeah not going to happen for me unfortunately
Yeah not going to happen for me unfortunately
It's not really that tall of an ask to install one more app - especially one that asks for nothing, you're not taking away anything, you're adding.
People are weird.
I don't know. People can't keep up with everything (like tech privacy news) in life and now out of their 100+ contacts this one person wants them to switch to this different app that nobody else seems to be using.
From their perspective it's kinda pointless
Welcome to life after 40 - I’ve been an early adopter all my life, but my network hasn’t moved with me.
As a result joining Snapchat has no value for me.
So I tend to use apps that are friend-agnostic like this and TIkTok.
Side note: my fave messaging app is Confide, it only reveals redacted words as you run your finger over them, and then deletes. So it’s impossible to screenshot.
It sounds like you'd still be able to take a video of it, then do a little bit of filtering and you'd have an image of the whole message. It'd take slightly more effort, but it's not "impossible to screenshot."
I’m not sure actually. I just tried to screen record and it wouldn’t let me. Then I tried to take a screenshot and it triggered a no screenshots pop-up
You can do with another device (i.e. filming the screen). It is of course less convenient, but that's it.
Yeah I really wanted to switch to Signal from Whatsapp but people don't want to try new messaging apps. Nowadays I use telegram but it's just bots and 2 or 3 friends.
I got rid of Signal after they added cryptocurrency to their app.
While I have no issues with cryptocurrency itself, it was a reminder that they have full control over the app. Now I happily use XMPP and Matrix for communication with friends and family.
Yup, this is also my problem with Signal; you're stuck with whatever boneheaded decisions the devs make and there's nothing you can do about it. Personally, my pet peeve is their refusal to add any kind of data export. As someone who likes backing up chat history, this is a dealbreaker for me.
Indeed. I opened the Signal app after a really long time last week and found that they had added a useless Stories feature like WhatsApp. I uninstalled the app since I never used it anyways.
Edit: Looks like Signal stories can be turned off unlike WhatsApp stories. That's a win I guess.
Exactly. I sometimes switch my SIM card between two different phones; Signal makes that process super confusing and awful because your Signal account, on a phone, doesn't just behave like an account, it has hooks built into your phone and messaging apps. Telegram, on the other hand, lets me set a password and use 2FA via email and then just... log in. Honestly it seems so much simpler I can't understand what the Signal devs are up to!
Is this on iPhone? I have regular backups enabled on my android
They've had data export for a long time, I helped make exports in support of a lawsuit more than 3 years ago.
Random question as Im very interested in using XMPP: Are public homeservers fine as long as you enable encryptions? And is there a list of recommended homeservers?
Im aware you can self host, that just is not an option for me currently
You're more than welcome to register an account on canchat.org (my server).
And yes, as long as you enable OMEMO encryption, your server provider cannot read your encrypted messages.
https://providers.xmpp.net/ is a good resource for finding a provider (homeserver) as well.
That website is awesome! Exactly what I was looking for, thank you!
If you have android, Molly is great 3rd party client.
I've tried it, it's definitely better. If I absolutely had to use Signal I'd use it through a Matrix bridge.
Your friends and family use matrix? Ok, I understand, that you can pressure your family to use it, but are all your friends that geeky?
Ah didn't know about that. That is a dealbreaker. Too bad, it always looked promising but now it just looks like a scam app.
It's certainly not a scam, and it is a reliable, private messaging app, don't get me wrong. It's just not decentralized/federated, and that's the issue for me.
Are you fundamentally against crypto? Not all crypto are scams.
Not all crypto is currency, even. The coolest shit is just decentralized versions of things we have already.
I'm particularly interested in things like Arweave. Smart contracts are cool too, though, to be actually useful, governments need to embrace them.
Not all crypto is currency, even. The coolest shit is just decentralized versions of things we have already.
Since we're all using Lemmy, an open source, decentralized, self hostable platform, wouldn't suggesting Matrix make much more sense?
I host a Matrix and Lemmy server. Even if Signal is completely trustworthy now, will it always be? It isn't my server and it's a single point of attack for anybody (including governments) to insert (or demand) a backdoor.
I still try to understand Matrix.
I feel like there is a joke somewhere in here 😂
No pun intended. I tried a couple of times but I can't figured it out.
No pun intended. I tried a couple of times but I can't figured it out.
No pun intended. I tried a couple of times but I can't figured it out.
No pun intended. I tried a couple of times but I can't figured it out.
I feel like there is a joke somewhere in here 😂
FTFY:
Since we're all using Lemmy, an open source, decentralized, self hostable platform, wouldn't suggesting XMPP make much more sense?
Why xmpp over matrix? Seems generally like older tech that doesn't have modern chat features.
What unique features does Matrix have? All it brings to the table is segmentation in the FOSS communuty. Also its developers' background is sketchy as hell.
Googling a little, I might be misremembering limitations from a long time ago or from older IRC versions or something. Does it have async multi user rooms, reactions, and is it federated so I can stick to one log in? Not trying to be adversarial at all, these are just what I would miss if I didn't use matrix and I haven't really looked at xmpp since AIM days lol.
Reactions are a work in progress and one major client (Conversations) does not have them yet, the others do. It has been federated since early 2000s and had multi user rooms with history for at least the last decade that i've been using it.
Try it out one day, even if you continue to use Matrix day to day.
It is kinda slow, the clients it has are bad and also this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32780665#:~:text=based%20on...-,If%20you're%20privacy%20focused%2C%20do%20not%20use%20matrix%E2%80%A6,metadata%20it%20leaks%20is%20astonishing.&text=The%20metadata%20that%20Matrix%20%E2%80%9Cleaks,email%2C%20or%20OMEMO%20encrypted%20XMPP.
It may not be perfect yet, but ill take the superior design approach (decentralized and self hostable) any day. The details can be improved over time. Matrix can improve its metadata handling, signal will never be decentralized and self hostable.
On top of that, if you get your friends and family on your instance like I have, the metadata isnt even a problem since everything is contained on my server anyway.
We’re using it and it’s fast and the Element client is great.
See how fast it is on a server with a lot of people and messages, it gets slower and slower over time
The disadvantage of matrix is that a lot of metadata is generated. Good architecture in terms of idea, but unfortunately no privacy messaging.
Depends on the use case. For one on one messaging or small group chats, Signal is great! If you need a Slack/Discord replacement, Matrix is your go to.
Matrix isn't really as smooth. Once Revolt gets a good android client then I'll move my group chats to there
When's the last time you used Matrix? Its definitely smooth nowadays.
Hmmm... Looks good! I'll keep an eye on it.
Wait, there doesn't seem to be any encryption in Revolt. 🤔
Looks like it's in the plans, by default. All good.
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@Cevilia @TendieMaster69 XMPP > Matrix. Proper IETF internet standard, less bloat and not dependent on venture capital funding.
The main problem with XMPP is that there is literally no clients with good UI.
I gave up on Element. It was using more battery than any other app and I didn't know anyone else using it. Now I'm just using Session or Telegram for anonymous messaging. Yeah, I know Telegram is not ideal.
I found the hardest part was convincing people to move away from the incumbents such as WhatsApp / FBM etc as all their contacts / friends / family were already using those platforms.
Network effect 😃
Same, I tried to move to Signal a couple years ago, but I couldn't get anybody except one friend to follow, so I gave up on it. I would try again, but I know it wouldn't go any different, yet.
Signal is good but I just can't make the people I text regularly to switch.
This is why it was so good that Signal supported SMS. It was much easier to get people to switch when they didn't have to think back who was on Signal and who was not before starting a conversation. Now people just default to text because they know everyone has that, and they don't have to waste time opening Signal, seeing yup, not on there before opening their SMS app, if they even bother.
I dropped signal when they dropped sms. I get why they did it but they removed their usefulness for most people. You could. Normally convince someone to use it foe sms and then start using the secure features with that person. Now without sms most people wont even consider it.
Well that's more secure /s
This only ever worked on Android so while helpful, it wasn't a panacea by any means as it didn't actually reach most people. Last time I had some numbers, the downloads across the App Store and Play Store were very similar so it probably ever reached about half the users. That's if we assume everyone on Android used it, which wasn't the case. 🤷
I got my sister to install Signal so that we could more security send financial receipts back and forth, etc. But I have another friend that doesn't want to install it because, "...it's another app I have to deal with...".
When people make this statement I never understand it. My mother also keeps saying that she does want to deal with anymore apps than she has. What exactly does she mean by that. The app updates are automatic and the app just exists on the menu when not used. It is not like the app needs maintenance/tweaking to run
People in the comments saying others in my network wont install so its pointless for me. All i want to say is Mate , dont be a sheep. I had 1000+ contacts and i installed signal then sent a message to everyone saying i am on signal and uninstalled whatsapp. Around 200 contacts moved to signal just because they value me Tl;DR know your worth
I stop talking to people who send me mass messages advertising apps because I actually do know my own worth.
Mate its 2023, you should know why signal is better than whatsapp and other data harvesting apps. Since you joined lemmy i think you support FOSS so why not support the apps that doesnt fuck you over.
I totally understand your point, but far from being a sheep, I live in a country where Whatsapp is the standard even for government, healthcare, college, private work. On the other hand showing people an app that only do better on privacy, which should be enough but it doesn't, but has no other appeals/features is a war lost before it's start. I'm happy many of you could do the switch. Best I could do, and I know I'll get ranted for this, was get as many people as I could to telegram. Please be gentle.
I feel ya mate. Lets just hope whatsapp fucks up and goverments stop using it
You did see this coming, but I don't understand why people associate Telegram with security in any way. It openly states that it's not end to end encrypted and everything is visible to the server! And if you enable end to end encryption for a particular chat, its functionality is severely restricted.
I don't associate telegram with security nor privacy, I know its flaws, I just choose to use it instead of anything meta related. I understand it's bad company X versus bad company Y. But as I said a perfect messenger app that has no user base is useless. I really wish things like signal or, even better, sessions became the mainstream way to communicate.
Makes sense. I also use all kinds of messengers. But it just so happens that the people I communicate with the most also use Signal 😁
I don't associate telegram with security nor privacy, I know its flaws, I just choose to use it instead of anything meta related. I understand it's bad company X versus bad company Y. But as I said a perfect messenger app that has no user base is useless. I really wish things like signal or, even better, sessions became the mainstream way to communicate.
I don't associate telegram with security nor privacy, I know its flaws, I just choose to use it instead of anything meta related. I understand it's bad company X versus bad company Y. But as I said a perfect messenger app that has no user base is useless. I really wish things like signal or, even better, sessions became the mainstream way to communicate.
Maybe I'm just stubborn, but if someone really wants to talk to me, they should respect my sense of privacy. If not, I'm just not taking to them - read: I'm not translate
I personally prefer apps on the matrix network! Www.Matrix.org has a list of client apps, but I've found Element is great on windows, steam deck, and android! Call quality and chat stability can get weird sometimes, but overall it's very very secure and pretty feature rich! 🙂
From the little bit I researched, it's kinda similar in the way that the fediverse works! It's decentralized, and one account works everywhere. Good stuff!
I prefer matrix since no phone number is required for signup there.
Signal frustrates me, because Signal Foundation is clueless on what people actually want and it just feels like their product direction is so baffling it somehow turned into another failed Google messaging app without being a Google product(they even hired a former Google exec to run Signal!) I've never touched their crypto or stories, and I thought the SMS support removal makes zero sense and their justification is flimsy at best, it gave me Hangouts flashbacks.
The main problem with removing SMS support isn't that I can't convince my friends and family to switch any more(though very annoying), it's that since Signal has marketed itself as a highly private messaging app, it now has a certain reputation of being used for... particular things. Without SMS support, even having Signal installed on your phone looks suspicious, since you can't say that you're using it as a nicer SMS app anymore.
Do they still require your phone number to sign up?
Yep.
That sucks imho
Yeah, I don't really get why they can't make that optional. Session and SimpleX are running just fine with no phone numbers, so I don't think that's a technical problem. If Signal wasn't audited and recommended by tons of privsec enthusiasts and experts, I would have believed it's a honeypot
Got a surprising amount of contacts to move into signal from Whatsapp, though the iMessage gang can't stop iMessaging.
As an android user, I don't see why you would want to use something that restricts your secure messaging to a single platform.
As a result of Signal's poor decision to stop SMS service, I frequently forget to check my SMS app for messages.
The issue with Signal is hardly anyone I know is on it.
I'd love to switch to Signal but the lack of sms makes it a NO from me. Everyone I know uses sms on their phone, and there's no way I'll be able to convince them to use two messaging apps when sms is already universal and convenient. 😭
It always baffles me that apparently in some places people still use sms. I mean besides the fact that it isn't encrypted at all, sms doesn't even give you group chats, the ability to send images and videos or many other of features basically every other messenger has, right? Where I live it's about (just guessing the numbers here tbh) 90 % WhatsApp, 7% telegram and 3 % signal. Is there any reason that in some places so many people stay with SMS? I don't think I've send or received one in the last 10 years or so (besides companies sending me a TAN or whatever)
I've never used group chats, so that was never an issue. Most people don't care if their messages are encrypted. And sms automatically swaps to mms when sending pictures and videos.
Donno why Whatsapp never took off on the U.S and tbh I'm glad since Meta owns it.
Meta owns it now, I guess - I always figured that the critical bulk of their user base came from before the acquisition.
I initially learnt about Signal when Meta (then Facebook) bought them out and a bunch of Australian reporters immediately switched their anonymous tipoff lines from Whatsapp to Signal.
As an iPhone user who most of the people I message are also iPhone users. I need sms to communicate with the 3 or 4 people who use android and they don’t have any other app for messaging.
I read that's mostly an US thing. For some reason a lot of people still text there.
There's no point in Signal if you want to use SMS
The idea isn't that I want to use SMS, the idea is to get people used to using one single app. Back when Signal had SMS support, it was my primary texting app. Anyone who had Signal I could talk to over Signal and anyone who didn't I talked to over SMS. This got me to convert several friends and family to Signal, and we were able to immediately switch from SMS to Signal chats.
Removing the barrier of juggling apps is paramount. No casual user wants to have to remember who they talked to on which app.
Exactly this. I used signal exclusively as my messaging app for years, and even talked a number of other people into using it, so when we talked with each other it was encrypted. But when signal pulled SMS support, almost all my friends dropped it because they only wanted one messaging app and not all their contacts were on it, so then it became useless to me as well.
Are there any people left who use just 1 app for messaging? There's WhatsApp, Messenger, Instagram, Signal, Telegram, Viber, WeChat, Snapchat, Discord, Slack, Line, etc, etc. And these are just the main ones.
I just use iMessage lol
I think it's a trade off because a lot of the people who fall into the less tech savvy catagory don't understand that SMS is unencrypted. I can at least see merit in the argument that a false sense of security is worse than no security. I wish they made it a setting you could toggle, even if it was off by default.
I want to use Signal. Not everyone else on my contacts list does.
It was much easier to convince people to switch to Signal when you could just say it takes the place of your SMS app. Now it's just another app to keep track of.
You're missing the point. Removing sms support just adds another barrier to it. No one else in my family cares about privacy as I do.
Been using Signal for a very long time now, with my SO, parents, brother and a few friends. But it's inevitable to also use WhatsApp side by side. Selling/Buying on the local marketplace? WhatsApp. Workplace colleagues? WhatsApp. That group of buddies where only 1 or 2 converted to Signal? WhatsApp.
Same thing here, only a couple of my friends have Signal. Everyone else uses Whatsapp.
WhatsApp has full E2EE and you can configure it to only store messages and backups on your device. Obviously others could save a cloud backup, but the backup is still fully encrypted as well. Messages aren't accessible by Meta and they can't be forced to turn them over to local governments, so it's really not a bad messaging app overall if you have to use it.
I'd be fine with using it as my messenger of choice if they open sourced it and allowed us to run our own servers
I've used Signal for years. Absolutely incredible messenger that does it all, and then some. Much better UX than FB Messenger and Whatsapp.
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I've been trying to get my wife to use signal for ages and she won't budge. She won't budge because she doesn't want to install another app that from her perspective does the same thing as texting (she's not as privacy conscious as I am and doesn't really care that signal encrypts missages). Lately I've been trying to sell signal as mre reliable since my work office has shit cell reception and once in a while messages will git completely lost in the aether. Signal is more featurefull than sms/mms imho.
My sister, her husband, and one of my friends use signal so there's that.
Ultimately I'd probably prefer everyone use matrix but it's not as accesible as signal.
I've used Signal from the earliest days. It has its flaws, but for the average human, it's the best fucking end to end encryption message platform around.
My problem with Signal is that nobody I know uses it, which unfortunately makes it useless.
Other than that, I genuinely think it's pretty great. But you'll have to persuade people to leave Facebook and WhatsApp en masse before it becomes ubiquitous enough to be useful.
I use signal on my phone and laptop but a while back they stopped supporting tablet versions. Wish they would bring that back.
Question: in 2019 Australia passed an encryption law that requires every piece of software used in Australia to have a back door for law enforcement to access to ‘counter terrorism’, wank, wank.
Does Signal have back door access in Australia?
Simply put, no. The signal protocol as well as the app is open source. Although I imagine signal would not be on the Australian app store for lack of compliance, which is why you can download the app directly from their website. WhatsApp actually uses the signal protocol, but they close sourced it so there's no way to tell if FB put a backdoor into it
As an Australian who uses Signal I can say it’s definitely on the iOS App Store, not sure about Google Play store but I assume it would be.
Yes - it's in the Australian Google Play Store
It's on the Google Play store as well.
I think you're referring to the Telecommunications and Other Legislation Amendment (Assistance and Access) Act 2018, also described in this Verge article.
My understanding is that this doesn't actually require a backdoor be pre-built. It does require that, upon notice, a company or individual provide access to encrypted data (eg, via a backdoor) or assist in obtaining that access in some way, up to introducing a backdoor into their own software or compromising it. There is however a "systemic weakness" limitation, such that no one should be required to introduce a somewhat vaguely defined "systemic weakness" in their software in order to comply with demands. There's also no requirement that a backdoor be added before requests.
I expect that this means Signal would just stop offering software in Australia if they received a request, or make an argument about systemic weakness, though what Australia would likely ask for would be targeted replacement of the app with a signed but malicious version, to avoid that argument. There is also a question of enforceability against foreign companies: Australia is not the US, with the ability to extradite people who have no real connection to them, so Signal could quite possibly just ignore the Australian law.
If I recall correctly, the law also applies to individuals, and could compel them to maliciously act against other organizations; I remember there being the argument that the law meant that security-minded companies and projects should not allow Australians to contribute to their software at all.
I'm almost positive signal themselves cannot access the data. They couldn't comply even if they wanted to. Check out this fun little section of signals website: https://signal.org/bigbrother/
God that’s fucking dystopian
It’s a running joke amongst us Aussies to visitors, man… Don’t ask what you can’t do in Australia, ask what you can. It’s an easier list to explain.
And they passed that bullshit encryption law over Christmas/NY 2018, by the way, when none of us were paying attention. We came back to work on January 2 and it was signed into law.
Personally, I thought it was our Government’s most sneaky and disgusting moment.
Do they require to have a backdoor into the actual app (on your phone) or into the servers.
I'm not sure how data is stored locally (probably encrypted tho), but some time ago the FBI demanded Signal to give them all of the data they had on a specific account. All they were able to get was the phone number of said account and the account creation date.
I heard its used by media people to contact each other or their sources which is a little convincing.
That was one of the original use cases. For whistleblower protection. Edward Snowden helped in the making of the signal protocol, because it's something he wished he had access to.
I've been using Telegram primarily and it's nice being able to logon to any device and have my chat history, but it doesn't seem secure at all. I imagine the NSA has direct access to it.
Love signal, just for me, I know 2 people who use it. Tried to get a group chat to move there but WhatsApp has too big a grasp.
Hello there, and welcome to our community! I hope you like it in here.
Could you please include some body text as to why should people know this, and how would that help them? It’s our second rule. Thank you :)
I think Signal is trying too hard to be secure, and they are missing a lot of convenience features.
For example, you can't migrate from Android to iOS or vice versa. You'll lose all your messages and groups.
Or it's really hard to export all the photos someone sent you. I get that my iCloud library isn't as secure, but I really want to make sure I don't lose those photos if I lose my device. The photos aren't that sensitive.
The security notifications are also well-meaning, but hard to make sense of. You sometimes get notifications for changed security numbers, when people change their phone, sometimes folks show up twice in groups, etc. It's all a bit hard to understand and difficult to use.
And finally, it seems that messages are sometimes delivered a bit unreliably or with a long delay.
That's what I always said. Signal only does one thing right, encryption, and that's it. The rest isn't great, they kept the server side code hidden for 1 year to implement the shitty MoxieCoin (so Moxie and his friends could get rich) and removed SMS recently.
I moved to Telegram and the features are so great there's no way I'll ever use Signal. If you really need E2EE you can use it in personal chats. For regular chats, the fact that you have access to all your messages from everywhere is really convenient.
unless u can convince everyone to start a private chat.. the chats are not private. at all. afaik.
Small price to pay for security. Maybe some small features are worth giving Zuckerberg and friends access to the most intimate personal shit in your life. For me it’s not a problem.
This attitude results in the app never gaining any traction and losing what traction it had.
"I don't want to give Zuckerberg all my information for free, or ever, at all" - is what I've said to people when they ask why I don't have Whatsapp. For the most part, they shrug as if to say "fair enough". By and large, it's become an acceptable reason.
Through the past few years, I've been communicating with my five best friends via Signal. They installed the app and started using it just to stay in touch with me. Like I said - best friends, they did that for me.
But their gesture have been rewarded...! ...with Twitter-thread-style text walls from Yours Truly! About whatever subject is on my mind that night.
From the 70s films of Robert Altman, to the impact of The Stone Roses on 90s British music, to the difference between Baroque and Rococo, to Major League Baseball rule changes, to Bitcoin miners in Xinjiang and Kazakhstan, to Neutrino Cosmic Background Radiation, to good ol' fashioned meme shitposting - surreal memes, recursive memes, dank memes, bone hurting juice... you name it, we got it.
So far, they don't seem to mind it too much. It doesn't happen every day and I gotta feel inspired, as opposed to bored texting.
Ahem, and a list of contacts, they've improved since, but it used to be that this was a simple hash of the phone number which is obviously vulnerable to a very easily generated rainbow table.
I’m confused. Are you saying they still store contacts but with better encryption or that they no longer store contact information?
I love Signal, but was unable to convince enough of my network to migrate. They are mostly stuck using Meta's spyware (Instagram and Whatsapp). In the end, Telegram seemed like a good mid-way for enough of my friends and peers.
How is telegram any better than that? Unless you use Secret Chats it is not even end-to-end encrypted.
It has its downsides as well. Though better than WhatsApp and telegram obviously
https://www.freie-messenger.de/en/warumnicht/signal/
My main messaging app is telegram, what would be the advantage in moving to signal? ( Pretending I manage to convince at least my main contacts )
There's the rub. Unless privacy is your highest priority there isn't any advantage. I wish I could convince my main contacts to move but convenience is a higher priority for them.
Makes sense, and yes for me it has to be a balance between convenience and privacy.
Telegram chats aren't e2ee by default. You're essentially putting your chats on a server owned by a rich Russian person as a hobby.
For one on one chats and group chats, Signal and Telegram have about the same experience. Telegram's main feature, imo, is the public channels.
Mostly privacy. Signal is completely encrypted end-to-end. Telegram is only encrypted when choosing private chat with one person. Group chats are not encrypted in telegram, they are in signal.
You can make encrypted group chats in telegram it's only broadcast channels that are not encrypted which signal does not have in the first place.
So basically the difference is, on signal it's only encrypted while on telegram you can choose.
What about Matrix? Much better, IMO
Garbage. And this is spammy.
After convincing a shitload of iMessage users to get telegram, I'm not going through that again.
Still better than iMessage or WhatsApp!
Definitely
My network is all on Signal and Signal has been good to us. Matrix may become the way of the future but for now Signal is a good place to be for this lot.
I am a fan of Signal but mine has been broken for like six months now. Anyone else getting this bug? I try to open it and get an error 'Couldn't open Signal, send a bug report to troubleshoot' etc. I sent the bug report to the developer team at the address provided but they couldn't really figure it out. I've tried deleting the app and reinstalling and all that to no avail.
If only they still supported sms....
Doesn't your phone already have a sms app?
Its immensely difficult to convince your circle to download yet another app to message a handful of people. It is much easier to convince them to replace their SMS app.
I've been using signal for a few years. I'm now in a situation that I use two different phones but signal only allows you to be connected to a single device, and you only see the messages in your history for the particular device you received it on. You can't migrate messages, the UI is extremely basic and isn't a responsive design so you have no control over window size on larger screens. There's just so many annoying little things about it, but overall it's pretty solid. I'm looking for a better solution now though.
It really needs some more effort put in on UI design, data migration and linked devices. Development is very slow. I hoped it would improve but nothing has changed for years.
Try Telegram. It's feature rich and works flawlessly on multiple devices.
Signal is great. I wish more people used it because I trust it more than anything that’s a product of Facebook. No matter what they claim, I always worry there’s something they aren’t admitting to.
The WhatsApp creator left Facebook early, leaving $850 million behind, because he thought they were pure evil, and then he went to the signal creators and threw money at them to not sell or turn into a shit show. He is now the interim CEO of signal. He plans to keep it as a private foundation that is using a donation model to keep it going.
Also, if you work for an employer that asks you to download signal for work communication, make sure you record all conversations by screenshots or screen video. People can wipe signal communications remotely and this can give employers deniability while putting things on the employee. Practice CYA at all times.
I abandoned Whatsapp several years ago and since then have used Signal nearly every day (to keep in touch with a handful of friends), have had a recurring monthly donation set up for a couple of years now.
One on the one hand there's the privacy, but what clinched it for me originally was the ability to seamlessly switch from my tablet to the cellphone to the desktop, all Apple. Signal was (and probably still is) better at this than Whatsapp.
Signal set the industry standard for encryption and privacy, and it's what I tend to point people towards. The one down-side is that it is still tied to your phone number, so solutions like Element/Matrix or XMPP with OMEMO might be a little better for some use cases. My wife, kids and I use Conversations(.)im for our intra-family chats and use Signal for talking to everybody else.
I used signal for about a month and kept having issues with it. After i removed it from my phone i received over 100 texts i never got while using it.
I suggest Session as well. No phone number required and uses onion routing network like Tor. One caveat though is notification is spotty.
And here is the The Unofficial Signal Messenger Community on the fediverse: link
I've been using Signal for over 10 years now, since it was TextSecure. Never looked back.
As many others have said already, I loved signal until they ended sms support. I'm not going to have two separate messaging apps. Especially when 90% of people I know won't use signal and don't care about encryption. I just use the Google messaging app, which in my opinion is way better than Samsung's app. I enjoy rcs support and as I understand it, there is still e2e encryption.
That being said, if I'm doing anything illegal I'm going to force the people to use signal or something safer. As much as I love Google, I'm not going to trust them to keep me out of jail. Nudes would probably be the most sensitive thing I'd trust Google with.
Oh and I dont mind the Facebook messenger app if you use the secure mode. Hate Facebook though, just the messenger is ok.
I would just use XMPP, but it's not easy to use for people without technical knowledge.
Only issue I've had with Signal in the past is sync between desktop and mobile, is this still as bad as I remember?
Works perfectly on my end as a daily user
Same here, works fine on PC. I even get the notification on PC first sometimes.
Same here, also daily user.
I use Signal as my main messenger and it works just fine. The only drawback is phone number requirement, but it is simpler for casual users. I'd really want them to add an alternative, more secure and private signup method.
Personally I haven't had issues with the Signal on various platforms since I started using Signal back in 2020.
Furthermore, they don't have metadata about who you're talking with.
Use Signal to talk to my gf. Had her get it so we didn’t have to use some shit like SMS or Snapchat, since I’m on iPhone and she’s on android. Had a couple of issues with messages not going through but since she upgraded her old phone it’s been fine.
Personally, Telegram is my favourite one. Feature complete, a ton of convenience features as well, totally secure if you want it instead of cloud storage etc
I find telegram super odd. Especially the publicly searchable groups for something that's supposed to be secure and how the first things that come up when I search my city is groups selling heroin.
But that's an option for the groups and channels because it serves as a public space to chat as well
I see a lot of people here struggling to get contacts to drop sms and imessage. i have had success in getting a lot of friends on signal because cross platform group mms is dogshit.
i can't get any whatsapp people to budge though
I don't know the details, but, even though I appreciate the tech behind it, in my experience signal hasn't been that great (not even accounting for the need to ask people to install it). The calls always have a delay, the UI isn't as responsive as either Telegram or WhatsApp, no ability to edit sent messages, no history when logging in from a computer. Any of these aren't that big of a deal, but definitely a downgrade compared to the competition.
Questions:
ETA: When I say "replaces your messaging app" above, I'm referring to "normal" texting on your phone, not whatsapp, viber, etc. Sorry I wasn't clear.
They used to have that functionality (and I loved it) but they removed it due to it "not being secure enough" for their standards
Signal can absolutely replace WhatsApp, Viber (although I never heard of it before), etc. It supports voice and video calls, and you can even screen share from desktop
I was so bummed when they removed that feature. I didn't really understand why viewing SMS in the app was "not secure enough".
I guess they have some criteria for security and they don't want to "ship" features that are below that (SMS is the most insecure you can get).
Answering to 2 - signal is a bit like Viber, WhatsApp etc, but the message and metadata are encrypted from end to end, meaning signal servers can’t know exactly the content. WhatsApp included this few months ago, but not on the metadata only the content of a message
Yes and yes, It can replace Viber, Whatsapp, and etc if I am not mistaken. They also have end to end and whispers which are 24 messages if you and your recipient are both on signal.
I sometimes wonder who’s paying to run the servers, and where that money originates.
It kind of doesn't matter... That's the beauty of fully auditable open source end to end encryption.
They know the same things about me as WhatsApp. They have all contacts and all metadata. Why do you say it doesn’t matter?
There isn't any audit on whatsapp's side. So you are trusting they are running the code they tell you they run on their servers.
So it's not just about metadata, I wouldn't trust facebook not to have some kind of access to the content of the messages. Which is much worse.
Also, Whatsapp is Facebook right ? Not really an amazing track record when it comes to privacy. They said they implemented the Signal protocol but you still have to trust them to be doing so.
I think that's what the person you are responding to was essentially saying, we do not know for sure what Whatsapp does.
Well now you are really insinuating a conspiracy inside Facebook. That may be happening and that would be bad.
But I’m not talking about anything like that. I’m really only focusing on what Facebook openly says what WhatsApp is doing, and monetizing. And that’s exactly about the same data that we give Signal under the flag of open source and freedom. There’s no difference, except that in the case of WhatsApp I know the business model, and for signal I don’t.
I don’t pay for Signal servers, so who does?
That information is easily found with a web search, so there is no need to cast aspersions. It's funded by Brian Acton's "activist" funding (interest-free loans of $100 million+ total to Signal Foundation over the years). I'd guess Acton used it as a huge tax write-off the year he sold WhatsApp to Facebook.
Other revenue sources include voluntary user donations and grants from many free press organizations whose members rely on Signal. Some years they report positive net income, and other years they report negative.
Signal Foundation tax forms, which list all general revenue sources: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840
What Signal says about how they operate: https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/ https://signalfoundation.org/en/
Signal Privacy Policy: https://signal.org/legal/#privacy-policy
All the code, including what runs on their servers and in their apps, so you don't need to take their word for anything. You can compile the signal client from source if you like: https://github.com/signalapp
Article which talks about their audit history (this is their weakest point. The full results of the audits Signal paid for were never published): https://restoreprivacy.com/secure-encrypted-messaging-apps/signal/
However, anybody can check for any spooky stuff in their code, so I doubt they would purposely try to hide anything untoward there.
https://yasha.substack.com/p/signal-is-a-government-op-85e
No offense, but both style and factual claims that article shout conspiracy theory.
I can’t take this piece of writing as a serious source.
Maybe, but I find it more likely to be true than false. My overarching takeaway is that if you actually care about the secrecy of a communication, don't use signal, use gpg.
I like Signal but it badly needs message editing capability.
Would love to see this too
They are adding this right now and it's already in the beta version of their apps (at least win/android).
Wasn't this on the list of apps that the gov had accessed user data?
yeah but the info available to them was your phone number, when you registered, and when you last logged on. Not terrible but more than I'd like. Still way better than most other messenger apps.
Thought that was Telegram.
Cool but most people don’t want another messenger app and aren’t concerned about privacy.
The bridging capabilities of matrix make it unbeatable for me. I can't make everyone switch to it, but damn has a lot more been willing to do so when I show them they can have discord, telegram, whatsapp and more in one app.
Why is it so hard for people to care about what they use?
Signal is great if you wish to procure from a certain person a certain substance which isn't legal in your state but should be.
I want to keep using signal with my friends that use signal. If I get an SMS text, it currently goes to signal with no way to respond. If I were to use the native Android messenger or a third party app, would it only receive sms or would it also receive signal messages as well since it's linked to the same number?
The SMS message will go to the current default SMS app. The Signal messages will go to Signal. Easy peasy.
Thanks for confirming that!
Be careful, the mod of the sci-fi community just got banned for criticizing it.
Also worth mentioning is "Session". Doesn't require a phone number or email.
It is good for what it does, we use it at work for out of office chats.
Signal is shit, its a honeypot. It requires your Phone Number and that the persons chatting have each other in their contacts on device, even if you convince friends not to use WhatsApp, WhatsApp, Google, Apple and every other App, someone installed that can access your contacts knows your Name, Phone Number and People you are connected to.
Signal relies on NSA Cloud Servers and "security" features of Intel Processore that are going to be broken or probably there already is a backdoor.
You can't have it on multiple devices with multiple accounts, its a closed ecosystem and doesn't have a big community involved with checking the code. They get funded by US Gov. and tried to put obvious backdoors in their desktop apps.
Use Matrix.org , I also heard good things about SimpleX.
nice try FBI
Signal is a great secure private messenger app until you realize that the keyboard is a third-party piece of software and is thus easily compromised. This is doubly so for people in CJK space where third-party IMEs are absolutely essential; Signal doesn't provide its own keyboard under its control and it certainly doesn't provide IMEs. So any keyboard/IME can phone home with everything you type into your "secure" app.
Signal's duty never included input methods. Moreover, if you force a keyboard that doesn't cover everyone's keyboard tastes AND language AND typing methods, you suddenly are blocking people from using their own choices. Suddenly you are force-feeding a possibly bad keyboard implantation to many, and taking away interest from the app.
And, finally, there's already plenty of free open source and privacy-friendly keyboards. There's no need to reinvent the wheel for one single app. This is, all in all, a really poor idea.
If your claim is:
Yes, there is in fact a duty to at least warn people that their very means of input is an attack vector. Yet the Signal App public-facing messaging says nothing of the sort. Instead it says:
You have to go pretty damned deep in the documentation before you finally get the tepid warning about keyboard apps. Like really deep. With no actual mitigation suggestions or recommendations. Almost as if, you know, they don't actually give a damn.
If your target market is security professionals, this is barely forgivable since they would presumably know about attack vectors like this. This, however, is what Signal seems to view their target market as:
And I, for one, think there's a responsibility when security pros market to normies. A responsibility which Signal App has been actively dodging (they've had their feet held to the fire for this from multiple sources!) for years now.
Almost as if, you know, they don't actually give a damn.
Almost.
Sorry, but Signal is still a messenger app. They didn't set to make a keyboard app. You are barking at the wrong tree.
Sorry, but Signal is still a messenger app. They didn't set to make a keyboard app. You are barking at the wrong tree.
My friends and I tried Signal after the whole WhatsApp privacy issue thing arose.
Signal has been nothing but issues for us, plagued full of bugs. Images half the time would refuse to send. Videos would send but the audio would be slow even though the video itself was fine. Chat would load 200 messages prior then scroll down to the bottom on its own. The app doesn't have a good way of handling media so it'd grow to be 50GB in size, then if you backup Signal messages that'd double in size again.
Our group chat recently moved away from Signal, it's not perfect but at least are media is sending fine.
Telegram does exist you know
The people that run signal are a fair bit sketchy though, telegram is a generally better option.
No telegram is definitely worse. Their cryptography is amateurish at best and wrong on purpose at worst. Attacks again telegram are regularly found (https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/506353) and telegram chats aren't even end-to-end encrypted by default.
They are ignoring a lot of cryptographic best practices in their protocol to the degree where anyone taking a basic cryptography class will laught at it. The paper above shows that some cryptographic properties can be proven for telegram but those look more accidental than actually planed.
So yeah I'd say telegram is way more sketchy. The signal protocol is significantly better. Telegram's still probably better than WhatsApp tho.
Interesting I wasn't aware of that, thanks for letting me know.
Also, while I'm not familiar enough with cryptography to know how accurate that is, speaking to OP's point regarding the people behind the apps...Telegram's people are sketchy themselves. From what I gather it sounds like the lead person behind Telegram is more or less a tech bro but Russian instead of American or South African, and has some similar negative qualities.
It's a long article, but Wired's feature on Telegram is an interesting read. TL;DR though is that Telegram seems to be led by yet another eccentric libertarian who reportedly is very controlling over certain aspects of the platform.
As an aside, for anyone put off by Signal's foray into cryptocurrency BS, Telegram also tried to dive into crypto, so...Yeah.