sure it's a lack of self control, if i had better self control i could force myself to go to bed at 21:00 and lie there for 2 hours until i fall asleep out of tortured boredom, and then i could force myself out of bed at 07:00 despite my limbs feeling like lead and every movement bringing me abject misery and pain!
What's wild is that you'll see them get a night job, or have to stay up late on vacation a few times and they'll be 100/10 miserable af. Never adapt to it, and still keep believing iTs aLl SeLf DiScIpLInE
Well what it 'proves' to them is that mankind is supposed to follow the exact same routine that works for them. My Dad was forever saying "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." Died when he was 45.
He didn't have a ton of money certainly. It's fair to say he wasn't a complete idiot but I think that even the example I've given so far argues against any claim to sagacity.
My dad is still among us, even though I grew up with his take on it, loosely translated:
Early awake, early asleep. That brings health to every weeb.
It's possible that he already translated it from English (your dad's saying or an unknown variation of it), and that I've now translated it back to English, for each translation moving a bit further away from the original meaning in order to keep it rhyming. (I wrote "weeb" to make it rhyme, my dad's version said "boy".)
There's actually a genetic bias on it. It can be overridden, but you'll always feel a bit burnt out from it. It also changes with age (teenagers are the latest, getting earlier as you age.
I'm the same way. If I fall asleep at 10pm but wake up at 6am I'm absolutely miserable for the first hour, but if I go to sleep at 2am and wake up at 10am I'm refreshed and in a good mood most of the time. I'm 30 and it hasn't gotten any better with age yet.
I had to get up at 05:30 during my teenage years to get to school in time, which was horrible. If I slept in, I could easily sleep til noon or even later. Now that I'm older, I usually wake up around 08:00, even on weekends.
I had the opposite experience a few years ago, I am very much a night owl.
I did a job that required me in the office for 7am for a few months, I was noticeably less effective for the whole duration, I was just slower at everything and was basically constantly tired. Switched back to getting in for 9-10am and the difference was night and day, as basically I was back to my old levels of effectiveness after a day or two.
I just think I'm one of these people that cannot adapt, or at least if I do, it comes with a cost.
I'm a night owl and even early morning acclimatization hasn't helped.
There were a few months that I had to do 12.5 hour shift work where I had to be at work at 5:30 AM and I was miserable the entire time. It's hard to adjust when your natural cycle is like 10 am to 2 am.
We did week about shifts. That meant earlies for a week, nights, then lates. Every week you had to change your sleep pattern.
I liked earlies to nights because long weekend (finish 11am Fri start 10am Mon) and a fun "adaptation" that required me to stay up as late as I possibly could on Sunday night. I'd drink, smoke and play games with US chums (UK here) until 3 or 4am and then sleep as late as possible.
It fucking sucked but I did it for a good decade. Then managed to wangle permanent 6-2 shift.
It was a revelation.
Suddenly I had a regular sleep pattern. It was hard to train, but I managed to get a good 6 hours a night most nights. Which was good, I've always suffered insomnia for lots of reasons, so I managed to become one of those people that survives on minimal sleep. More sleep was amazing.
I've kind of got it down nowadays, thanks in no small part to some pills I was given for my restless legs. They make me drowsy, so if I take them at the right time I can force a sleep pattern, and they stop me kicking my wife up the arse when I'm asleep.
Back to your point after a trip through the weeds, I now do 2 week late shift and 2 week early shift, there's a permanent night shift at this new place.
When I'm on the early shift I wake up at 5am on the Saturday and Sunday without fail. Once I forgot to set my alarm for work and woke up a minute before it should have gone off. Years of the early shift have honed my wake up time to a knife edge.
Sometimes on the weekend I can't get back to sleep for various reasons, so it's not an uncommon sight to find me gaming on my PC at 7am on a Sunday morning. I don't want to be there, but it's kinda nice having the peace and quiet of being a night owl with the sun up and a sleep cycle behind instead of in front of you.
I said upvoted post on kbin. Not posted on kbin. I might be wrong, but I think I see only kbin upvotes and downvotes. Right now I see 6 upvoted and 1 downvote to the post you have replied. How much do you see?
Then there's my fucking cunt of a housemate who lkves on the floor above me that's the loudest mother fucker on the face of the earth and fucking stomps around until 1am every night and opens and slams close every fucking draw and door in his room, and re arrnafes his furniture every night, then gets up at 6.30 in the morning so he can stomp around some more, hack up his lungs as loudly as humanly possible and slam every door in the fucking house before leaving for work exactly when my alarm goes off, specifically so I can't have a single good night sleep ever.
You must live below the people in the apartment next to me.
Why are people like this. Really. I want a serious, well thought out answer from people who act like this. I would be fucking appalled if I found out people had been losing sleep because of me. Or they weren't able to concentrate when working from home, or had to get a bluetooth converter for their tv to connect headphones because otherwise they can't even enjoy tv with all the stomping, banging, furniture moving, and door slamming. I would feel so fucking guilty and especially embarrassed for coming off as such an entitled piece of shit. I literally cannot comprehend that there are people who know they're disturbing others, in their own homes, day and night, and they either don't give a shit, or they get mad at the person they're torturing for asking them nicely to keep it down. Or both. And yes I have brought it up with my landlord countless times. They could give a fuck. The next step is to contact the city and have them come in with a decibel meter or something. In my state, landlords must ensure "peaceful enjoyment" for tenants. But I'd have to prove it's over a certain level, then deal with filing a complaint and/or civil court or whatever, so nothing ever changes.
This is one situation where I think an eye for an eye is perfectly reasonable, because after living through over a year of daily constant noise, I think my next door neighbors aren't deserving of a single moment of peace from now on.
Everyone seems to have a story like this, which makes me think that we might actually be just as loud as the people we complain about without realizing it. Think about it. It's not like we can actually hear what we sound like from the floor below while we are "softly walking around" upstairs.
I got told we were like this once. Mle and my wife would literally tiptoe around after, carefully close doors, live in a constant state of worry, and still the next morning the guy below would say "you're literally shaking paintings off the walls!" My wife was physically afraid to run into him after a bit.
At the time I thought the apartment must have paper thin walls that apparently I couldn't hear through, but now I think he was just an ass. Living off self righteous anger.
YMMV. You have situations like the one you describe, and you have situations like mine. There's a unit down the hall that keeps everyone on the damn floor awake. There's a nice dude who lives there and raises his grandkids, and there's also the kid's father. The kids and the grandfather are great. They're respectful, kind, and very friendly.
The kid's father has this "fun" habit of sleeping with complete randos. You do you, yadda yadda. I try to mind my own business.
He makes it EVERYONE'S business. Every single time he gets dumped, he throws an enormous hissy fit. Screaming incoherently, banging on every door in the hallway, stomping about, etc. He doesn't work, yet he throws a hissy fit when he has to watch his own kids because the grandfather has to work. It doesn't matter if it's 2am or 2pm, there's a decent chance that that guy is pissed at something. It wasn't uncommon to see him crying by the front doors.
It's a great personal reminder to never start doing hard drugs. I only know that the guy does hard drugs because of the grandfather was venting to me about it. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the cops have been called on him by other people.
In my experience people who are this utterly devoid of consideration are not only unable to change, they will get angry at you for suggesting they've done something wrong.
Yeah I can't really describe it but this guy lives in his own little world. He's a friendly bloke but just does not give the slightest shit about anything that doesn't affect him personally.
Leaf blowers piss me off. They are good in some circumstances but usually it's a neighbour that just blows their shit on to the street. Use a brush and pick it up you selfish prick.
I do the same thing except I can't stand silence so I play thunderstorms in the background so I hear the thunderstorm through the headphones instead of silence
I do the same thing except I can't stand silence so I play ASOIAF theory livestreams.
Thank you Alt Schwift X and Glidus, now I sleep much better and I also understand that Tywin Lannister is secretly the Dusky Woman (and Tyrek Lannister is a horse).
I do that in the morning sometimes but it doesn't help when he stomps around and slams doors I shakes the fucking house like zues himself is having a temper tantrum.
Hah, yeah I learned I wasn't so much a night person as much as someone who indulges in revenge sleep procrastinating and doesn't get enough alone time in the day.
I shined a torch in my wife's sleeping face this morning at 5am.
I didn't mean to, I was looking for my ear tunnel, it had fallen out in the night and I didn't want to go a day at work with a cats arsehole for an ear lobe.
I looked for my spare ones first, I really didn't want to be that guy, I'm a night person.
Anyway I sent her this and she had to remind me I was a bastard.
I tried my whole life to get up early, one day I just gave up. Started my own company, bought a house - now I live and work like nature made me. No, I wear clothes, it's just the sleep. Btw it's interesting when you're hiring how many people are like that and love the hours. I can recommend that to every night person.
Most of the startups I've worked for dont have any of their meetings until nearly lunch time to account for the fact that most programmers stay up late
See our house is totally opposite, I get up early, take myself downstairs feed the pets and have a nice quiet morning. My wife will arrive at bed at 1am, throw the bedroom light on, rattle all the drawers for PJ's, loudly demand I wake up so I can watch whatever Facebook video she's been watching and announce we should have a serious conversation about where we should book for holidays this year.
When I complain, it's 1am and I gotta get up at 6:30 suddenly I'm the reason we never talk anymore...
If your marriage is worth it to you, a consider getting on her schedule somehow. Some people just don’t think about that shit. I started waking up before my ex because she was complete chaos every morning. She’d scream and throw things around. She was ultimately diagnosed with BPD right after we had a major crash and burn.
The girl I’m with now is the opposite. She’s calm, considerate, and an all around amazing partner. There are things she don’t think about though. She loudly looks for her pajamas too (she don’t turn the damn light on thank goodness) but I know she cares for me and considers me because she does so much to show it.
She wakes me up to talk too, but we’re roughly on the same schedule. It bugs me when she does, but it legit doesn’t bother her a bit so if I complained she wouldn’t even remotely understand why I was complaining. It’s no big deal to her to wake up and go right back to sleep.
Sometimes you have to make big changes for the sake of your marriage. Some people can work on opposite schedules and get along fine. Some people can’t.
I wouldn’t wish divorce on a modern day Hitler. It was hands down the worst experience of my life. I don’t regret it now because I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. I’m with someone who I work well with and who I love on a level I didn’t even know was possible (as cheesy as that sounds, I’ve never been happy to do things for anyone else like I do for her). She’s someone I legitimately want to make sacrifices for. If I had to go through that shit again though, I don’t even know if I could. I might check out early or just start walking and never look back.
Think back to why you married your wife. I’m telling you, once it’s done you will and it won’t be any fun.
Just hearing my ex talk just about drove me up the wall though haha. It did from the very beginning too. She was just cool as hell and an amazing artist. I admired her when I thought about her, just couldn’t handle her when I was around her. She was so arrogant and certain that she was the best thing on the planet, which was really just her insecurity talking and playing confident somewhat, but god I couldn’t stand it. I legit think she was one of the best writers the world has ever known, but so did she and good god.
Idk man, sounds to me like his wife is very inconsiderate, or unaware that some people are deeply asleep at 1am. This behavior should not regularly happen between people who respect each other and clearly communicate their needs. Maybe they can find a different solution than him changing his entire schedule.
Anyway, I just wanted to browse memes while taking a dump. Strange how these internet conversations come to be.
Yes. The stimulants used have a side effect of basically being turbocharged coffee.... That's the best way I can describe it.
I've been in prescription ADHD meds for more than a year and after forcing myself out of bed long enough to shove my medication down my face hole, within an hour, of that, it becomes impossible for me to get to sleep for at least 10-12 hours, even if I'm fully acclimatized to my dose.
Once when I neglected to take meds for over a month straight (pretty significant depression after a job loss, I'm ok now), the first time I started back on my medication, I was wired for at least 20 hours after taking my normal dose. Messed up my sleep pretty badly, but I got back on the horse right after and things calmed down a lot.
Since getting onto this prescription, I haven't had any issues staying awake, and usually as the meds wind down (wear off) near the end of the day, I can get to sleep at a reasonable time.
It's a stimulant, so that's not really surprising.
I live a full 100 meters from a bar but every fucker leaving will scream at full volume as they are leaving. I'm so desensitized from women screaming at night that I could miss a genuine rape outside my front door and not even roll over.
Drunk people find it hilarious to shout and scream at night. It's just drunk people things, if you ever live near a bar in a gentrified and popular area you'll understand
That’s almost as bad as the geniuses that build luxury properties right next to race tracks, then petition to have the race tracks shut down for lowering property values.
Might be a regional thing, I don't think I've ever seen a new church built in my lifetime. The only churches I see closing down are the ones in small towns that don't have the population to maintain it anymore.
I'm curious, do you see a trend in the denomination of these pop-up churches?
I imagine it's "regional" by the meaning that entire countries have them behaving in a similar way, but it's different from one country to another.
Anyway, I live in a 60 years-old city, so there are no centenary churches here :) yet they are still mostly older than the average for my country. There are entirely pop-up denominations that appear, annoy the hell out of friends and relatives that I have in other cities, then close down and disappear so that nobody remember their names anymore.
Restaurants turn into bars, bars turn into clubs. This can happen in the span of months in some cases.
Also some people may have bought during covid when there were no bars, some others may not be able to afford much else within commuting distance of their work.
I owned one and conveniently had an apartment above it in the past.
With that perspective I tried keeping it not too noisy. Speakers facing in a way to prevent noise pollution to the outside, less bass on everything too. Central speakers also get to be louder while speakers close to the windows are not as loud. It's not ideal but it's much better than being entirely careless.
The customers at least tend to not be noisy unless it's karaoke night. They have some common decency where I live.
I went to an Airbnb in Milano, in which in the middle of it's block was literally a night club. Literally block residents and people who come to party enter and exit the same block door.
However, I didn't hear anything, they soundproofed the hell out of this place, and the culture isn't loud.
There's several people in this thread going off about how it's not inconsiderate to wake people up at times like 1pm or 4pm regardless of sleep schedule or any other circumstances.
There's also another post about people mowing their lawns at the ass crack of dawn and it's full of morning people telling night people to fuck off and that it's their own fault.
I've also regularly interacted with people who simply do not respect night workers at all
When I had housemates in the past, I respected this until 9AM, at that point, unless you actually have a reason to stay up past 1AM (for an 8hr sleep), then I'm afraid then it sucks to be you and I'll just be normal amounts of quiet.
Normal amounts of quiet. It's not like I ran around the house banging pots and pans.
I feel like Lemmy really self-selects for "night-owls" (people have different chronotypes sure, but like, if you're staying up to 3,4 AM, then you have sleep issues, it's not a chronotype to be up this late. Humans aren't nocturnal. And I say this as someone who has had sleep issues where I have been up that late. You know what I never did, complained that my housemates closed the door a normal amount at 10AM and made a normal amount of noise at that time).... that feel hard done by.
Like, it's called getting along with others, it's something you need to learn when living in a sharehouse.
I went to bed at 5-6 am for a few years. I didn't have sleep issues whatsoever. Slept the same amount and felt just as rested (more if anything) as now where I have a "normal" sleep schedule.
There's also people that, yknow, work at night, whose sleep might start at 9.
I don't think it's necessarily wrong to not limit yourself greatly on what u do based on if someones sleeping as long as you avoid very loud things (a pleasant fuck you to my mom (love you) for insisting she needs to vacuum at like 11 every second day when I had that sleep schedule), but your reasoning is just bull.
See I actually agree with you on this, to a point, that if you're working night shift and your mum knew about it, then it's pretty unfair to be doing the vacuuming at that time each day if she knows you're going to bed that late.
If you're just deciding/feeling it's better for you to be going to sleep that late with no other reasons, then yeah, I do think it was on you to come to some other compromise with your mum about when she can vacuum. In the early afternoon after you wake up for example.
It's the "other people should work around me by default" attitude that I take issue with. When the standard is be awake during the day (right or wrong), then I think it's on the people asking for deviation from that to ask for accommodation.
You seem to only be accounting for people who are like yourself. It's hard to picture other people's minds because we only have ours to go by, but it's important to acknowledge that other minds work very differently from our own.
I was a habitual night owl in my twenties. Went to sleep at dawn and woke up around noon. I didn't have sleep issues, I was always incredibly rested and full of energy.
Now I sleep at 10 and wake up around 6. I have less energy but I am now a morning person. I can easily get up at 4 for occasions.
You're making judgements on others based on your own biased view, one that only sees it your way. That's why you're being down voted.
People should be mindful of noise at all times, but if it's late in the morning, I feel it's unreasonable to have an expectation of tip-toeing around without bringing it up and asking if you can come to some sort of an arrangement.
It's the expectation that I think is the problem.
Whereas the expectation that daytime is for normal activity is not unreasonable. Why? Because that is the way it has been and still is. It doesn't mean it's "good", or "fair", but it is the current standard and if you want to deviate from it it should be up to you to say something to get what you need.
We have norms and standards in society that people do expect, these different in different parts of the world. Bring a gift when you meet parents for the first time (east Asia), don't be loud at night (Nachtruhe, Germany). If you want to deviate, then yes, it's on you and communicate.
As I've repeated in other comments, if there is some reason someone needs to sleep at "unstandard" hours, then I'm not suggesting they just deal with it and suffer.
What I am suggesting is that it shouldn't be taken for granted that day time should be treated the same as night, and that staying up late should mean others need to tip-toe around during the day without asking (unless there is some other reason, or you ask for it to be different because XYZ)
I'm quite happy waking up at 3pm and going to bed at 6am. To be honest, I think anyone waking up at or before 10am and going to bed before 12am is a weirdo who has sleep issues and I just can't respect that. If I make too much noise when you're trying to sleep, well, that's just too bad innit?
As mentioned in other threads, it's just the expectation that bothers me.
If you're deviating from a social norm (and right or wrong, it is still a social norm), I think it's on you to communicate it properly.
Again, people should be reasonably quiet at all times, but it is unfair to have the expectation that the day will be as quiet as the night without prior discussion.
If you're sleeping off a night shift and I'm up early I'll be quite as a church mouse. But if you're just laying in bed for no reason then you can deal with the noise of whatever I need to get done
Only because rich sociopaths decided that it was better to force the serfs into working at the same times than it was to allow people to work around the clock according to their own sleep schedules. Before you try to tell me that this isn't a rich people thing, you absolutely can't convince that it didn't start that way. Rich people's money may not trickle down, but their bad opinions and beliefs sure as hell do.
Right, but they're not going to do their job very well if they're sleepy. Over time evolution is going to select for the nightwatchers who don't get sleepy and overlook the shadows in the night, leading to humans who are comfortable being awake at night, and humans who are comfortable being awake during the day. The day humans get food, make clothes, etc for the night humans who make sure the farmers, gatherers, etc are safe when they're asleep.
Edit: I wonder if there's a correlation between being ADHD, being a night owl, and gun ownership. ADHD is speculated to be a residual evolutionary trait from when humans were hunter gatherers due to a typically heightened awareness; I wonder how often ADHD humans found themselves as the nightwatch as humans graduated to farming.
You shouldn't disturb other people whether they're asleep or awake. Buying a pair of slippers or flip flops for indoors and not slamming doors and cupboards isn't exactly a monumental ask at any time of day.
I'm very confused by this statement.
Does nobody in Belgium really go to bed before 10?
If you knew your neighbor had to be up by 4am every day and had a child, and knew they had to go to bed by 8, would you not try to be nice if they were nice in kind?
Never worked nightshifts?
The cleaning crew at the hotel on my last business trips are always extremely noisy. But I've just hit the bed after my shift, some breakfast and a beer.
Would be nice to at least once get 6 full hours of sleep...
I have not but I simpathise for you.
I tried to word my reply to indicate that there were cases that didn't follow my rule of thumb... Cases like yours it makes sense to wake up... Frankly whenever.
Morning people are courtious and quiet for the ones sleeping late. On the other hand when a night person has to wake up early, they'll wake everyone else as well
I'm a night person but proper sleep only works at night so I had to become an early waking very quiet night person.
Maybe instead of being exclusively for one group over others, our society could kinda be for everycritter?
[Sarcasm, though not necessarily directed at the person I'm replying to] Nah, why would we want a liveable world when we can just demand that everyone be a damn automaton that exists to work all day.
Oh fuck no, you should see the difference between me and my girlfriend when the other is asleep, I used to work night shift and she wouldn't wake up when I came back at 4am even if we lived in a 500sq ft apartment, but she sure as hell would wake me up at 7 am by making breakfast and coffee!
I had a roommate that loved pour over coffee in the morning. That in itself isn't the issue; she taught me how to use her V60 and it actually makes pretty good coffee.
No, the issue was she ground her beans fresh. Every morning, at 6AM. Know what the loudest sound in the universe is? An electric coffee grinder at 6AM.
lol Why the fuck is this the most downvoted reply? Did you all even read it, or did you count the score and prepare yourself for outrage? There's literally nothing wrong with what was said. 'Night people struggle with morning behavior more than morning people.' Sounds like a valid perspective, esp if this person lives with/is a courteous morning person.
Morning people, in my experience at least, firmly believe that night people are just morning people with insufficient self-discipline.
Lmao, 100%. I swear most folks I know believe being a night owl is simply a lack of self control, or they have a screw loose
sure it's a lack of self control, if i had better self control i could force myself to go to bed at 21:00 and lie there for 2 hours until i fall asleep out of tortured boredom, and then i could force myself out of bed at 07:00 despite my limbs feeling like lead and every movement bringing me abject misery and pain!
What's wild is that you'll see them get a night job, or have to stay up late on vacation a few times and they'll be 100/10 miserable af. Never adapt to it, and still keep believing iTs aLl SeLf DiScIpLInE
Well what it 'proves' to them is that mankind is supposed to follow the exact same routine that works for them. My Dad was forever saying "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." Died when he was 45.
To quote Yakko Warner:
eh, all my friends go to bed at like 9pm lmao
So do I. Don't tell anyone.
Was he wealthy or wise?
He didn't have a ton of money certainly. It's fair to say he wasn't a complete idiot but I think that even the example I've given so far argues against any claim to sagacity.
My dad is still among us, even though I grew up with his take on it, loosely translated:
It's possible that he already translated it from English (your dad's saying or an unknown variation of it), and that I've now translated it back to English, for each translation moving a bit further away from the original meaning in order to keep it rhyming. (I wrote "weeb" to make it rhyme, my dad's version said "boy".)
There's actually a genetic bias on it. It can be overridden, but you'll always feel a bit burnt out from it. It also changes with age (teenagers are the latest, getting earlier as you age.
As a night person who has to wake up at 6am, I can absolutely confirm. I'm always tired.
I'm the same way. If I fall asleep at 10pm but wake up at 6am I'm absolutely miserable for the first hour, but if I go to sleep at 2am and wake up at 10am I'm refreshed and in a good mood most of the time. I'm 30 and it hasn't gotten any better with age yet.
Fuck mornings I hate them so much.
44 and still this way 2am-10am is pretty much my dream schedule.
Unfortunately I have a child.
I have to wake up early too. The good part is I don't even remember the first hour of work and once I'm awake I only have to work for 7 more hours.
Edit: nevermind, I can't math.
Yeah no matter what time I go to bed, if I have to wake up before 8 in the morning I'll be tired. I'm just not built for early mornings
For anyone curious about it, here are some sources.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6084759/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08259-7
I had to get up at 05:30 during my teenage years to get to school in time, which was horrible. If I slept in, I could easily sleep til noon or even later. Now that I'm older, I usually wake up around 08:00, even on weekends.
Til I'm still going through my teenage years. I'm straight up nocturnal now. I wasn't as a teenager.
I used to be a night owl, then I had a job that required me to get up at 5:30. It sucked for 2 weeks and now I'm a morning person.
I had the opposite experience a few years ago, I am very much a night owl.
I did a job that required me in the office for 7am for a few months, I was noticeably less effective for the whole duration, I was just slower at everything and was basically constantly tired. Switched back to getting in for 9-10am and the difference was night and day, as basically I was back to my old levels of effectiveness after a day or two.
I just think I'm one of these people that cannot adapt, or at least if I do, it comes with a cost.
I'm a night owl and even early morning acclimatization hasn't helped.
There were a few months that I had to do 12.5 hour shift work where I had to be at work at 5:30 AM and I was miserable the entire time. It's hard to adjust when your natural cycle is like 10 am to 2 am.
I've done all the shifts and it fucking sucks.
We did week about shifts. That meant earlies for a week, nights, then lates. Every week you had to change your sleep pattern.
I liked earlies to nights because long weekend (finish 11am Fri start 10am Mon) and a fun "adaptation" that required me to stay up as late as I possibly could on Sunday night. I'd drink, smoke and play games with US chums (UK here) until 3 or 4am and then sleep as late as possible.
It fucking sucked but I did it for a good decade. Then managed to wangle permanent 6-2 shift.
It was a revelation.
Suddenly I had a regular sleep pattern. It was hard to train, but I managed to get a good 6 hours a night most nights. Which was good, I've always suffered insomnia for lots of reasons, so I managed to become one of those people that survives on minimal sleep. More sleep was amazing.
I've kind of got it down nowadays, thanks in no small part to some pills I was given for my restless legs. They make me drowsy, so if I take them at the right time I can force a sleep pattern, and they stop me kicking my wife up the arse when I'm asleep.
Back to your point after a trip through the weeds, I now do 2 week late shift and 2 week early shift, there's a permanent night shift at this new place.
When I'm on the early shift I wake up at 5am on the Saturday and Sunday without fail. Once I forgot to set my alarm for work and woke up a minute before it should have gone off. Years of the early shift have honed my wake up time to a knife edge.
Sometimes on the weekend I can't get back to sleep for various reasons, so it's not an uncommon sight to find me gaming on my PC at 7am on a Sunday morning. I don't want to be there, but it's kinda nice having the peace and quiet of being a night owl with the sun up and a sleep cycle behind instead of in front of you.
I think I had never seen this much upvoted post on kbin. You speak the truth, brother/sister/sibling!
This wasn't posted on kbin though.
I said upvoted post on kbin. Not posted on kbin. I might be wrong, but I think I see only kbin upvotes and downvotes. Right now I see 6 upvoted and 1 downvote to the post you have replied. How much do you see?
Oh, I wasn't aware it tallied the votes separately. Interesting and I apologize.
I only see the summary score on my lemmy client, not the amount of down votes and upvotes, but it's way beyond 300 as of this post.
Why don't I see you calling out people who say "Lemmy" under kbin posts?
I will! Point me to them and my fury will STRIKE them down!
Then there's my fucking cunt of a housemate who lkves on the floor above me that's the loudest mother fucker on the face of the earth and fucking stomps around until 1am every night and opens and slams close every fucking draw and door in his room, and re arrnafes his furniture every night, then gets up at 6.30 in the morning so he can stomp around some more, hack up his lungs as loudly as humanly possible and slam every door in the fucking house before leaving for work exactly when my alarm goes off, specifically so I can't have a single good night sleep ever.
Sorry I may have some pent up anger.
Nothing a good night of sleep can't solve!
This guy.
You must live below the people in the apartment next to me.
Why are people like this. Really. I want a serious, well thought out answer from people who act like this. I would be fucking appalled if I found out people had been losing sleep because of me. Or they weren't able to concentrate when working from home, or had to get a bluetooth converter for their tv to connect headphones because otherwise they can't even enjoy tv with all the stomping, banging, furniture moving, and door slamming. I would feel so fucking guilty and especially embarrassed for coming off as such an entitled piece of shit. I literally cannot comprehend that there are people who know they're disturbing others, in their own homes, day and night, and they either don't give a shit, or they get mad at the person they're torturing for asking them nicely to keep it down. Or both. And yes I have brought it up with my landlord countless times. They could give a fuck. The next step is to contact the city and have them come in with a decibel meter or something. In my state, landlords must ensure "peaceful enjoyment" for tenants. But I'd have to prove it's over a certain level, then deal with filing a complaint and/or civil court or whatever, so nothing ever changes.
This is one situation where I think an eye for an eye is perfectly reasonable, because after living through over a year of daily constant noise, I think my next door neighbors aren't deserving of a single moment of peace from now on.
Everyone seems to have a story like this, which makes me think that we might actually be just as loud as the people we complain about without realizing it. Think about it. It's not like we can actually hear what we sound like from the floor below while we are "softly walking around" upstairs.
I got told we were like this once. Mle and my wife would literally tiptoe around after, carefully close doors, live in a constant state of worry, and still the next morning the guy below would say "you're literally shaking paintings off the walls!" My wife was physically afraid to run into him after a bit.
At the time I thought the apartment must have paper thin walls that apparently I couldn't hear through, but now I think he was just an ass. Living off self righteous anger.
Go with your gut. His ceiling probably creaked when you walked, and that was it.
YMMV. You have situations like the one you describe, and you have situations like mine. There's a unit down the hall that keeps everyone on the damn floor awake. There's a nice dude who lives there and raises his grandkids, and there's also the kid's father. The kids and the grandfather are great. They're respectful, kind, and very friendly.
The kid's father has this "fun" habit of sleeping with complete randos. You do you, yadda yadda. I try to mind my own business.
He makes it EVERYONE'S business. Every single time he gets dumped, he throws an enormous hissy fit. Screaming incoherently, banging on every door in the hallway, stomping about, etc. He doesn't work, yet he throws a hissy fit when he has to watch his own kids because the grandfather has to work. It doesn't matter if it's 2am or 2pm, there's a decent chance that that guy is pissed at something. It wasn't uncommon to see him crying by the front doors.
It's a great personal reminder to never start doing hard drugs. I only know that the guy does hard drugs because of the grandfather was venting to me about it. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the cops have been called on him by other people.
Fuuuck I wish it was cheaper to move.
I think the two of you need to sit down for a little talk 😂
In my experience people who are this utterly devoid of consideration are not only unable to change, they will get angry at you for suggesting they've done something wrong.
I wish OP the best of luck.
Yeah I can't really describe it but this guy lives in his own little world. He's a friendly bloke but just does not give the slightest shit about anything that doesn't affect him personally.
When does he sleep? It is theoretically possible for this to affect him personally.
Yeah. The only solution here is to move.
It's not easy being an upstairs neighbor
I knew what this was going to be even before clicking :)
"Their ceiling is our stage"
I feel like I know this guy
Its time to get a dirt cheap van, convert it out, and pay yourself the 'rent'
Leaf blowers piss me off. They are good in some circumstances but usually it's a neighbour that just blows their shit on to the street. Use a brush and pick it up you selfish prick.
Or get the opposite; a leaf vacuum. They seem way more useful to me than the ones that blow.
You know the single greatest thing I starting doing in 2023?
Sleeping with my noise cancelling AirPods. Not listening to anything, just using their inherent abilities.
I sleep like a fucking rock now!
I do the same thing except I can't stand silence so I play thunderstorms in the background so I hear the thunderstorm through the headphones instead of silence
I do the same thing except I can't stand silence so I play ASOIAF theory livestreams. Thank you Alt Schwift X and Glidus, now I sleep much better and I also understand that Tywin Lannister is secretly the Dusky Woman (and Tyrek Lannister is a horse).
I do that in the morning sometimes but it doesn't help when he stomps around and slams doors I shakes the fucking house like zues himself is having a temper tantrum.
I could have written this. I feel your pain.
Same with the welfare parasite NEET one floor above me.
So fucking much this. They have no respect for the owls
And they are so f*cking proud of being up early as if a short sleep is something worth to accomplish
If I wake the morning people up I'd have to spend time with them, which kind of defeats the purpose of being a night person.
Hah, yeah I learned I wasn't so much a night person as much as someone who indulges in revenge sleep procrastinating and doesn't get enough alone time in the day.
"Sure is dark in this room. Better turn on every light in the county."
I shined a torch in my wife's sleeping face this morning at 5am.
I didn't mean to, I was looking for my ear tunnel, it had fallen out in the night and I didn't want to go a day at work with a cats arsehole for an ear lobe.
I looked for my spare ones first, I really didn't want to be that guy, I'm a night person.
Anyway I sent her this and she had to remind me I was a bastard.
She's right.
I tried my whole life to get up early, one day I just gave up. Started my own company, bought a house - now I live and work like nature made me. No, I wear clothes, it's just the sleep. Btw it's interesting when you're hiring how many people are like that and love the hours. I can recommend that to every night person.
that sounds like a cool sitcom TV show idea about a seemingly normal company except they work at night — like a vampire version of The Office
Shut up and take my money.
Most of the startups I've worked for dont have any of their meetings until nearly lunch time to account for the fact that most programmers stay up late
I want to work for a company like yours 🥲
It's unfortunate that most business owners seem to be morning people and demand that all of their employees do the same.
I'm barely functional by 8 AM and you want me to DRIVE? And DO WORK before 10 AM?
I swear, I do 80% of my work between 2PM and 5PM.
I worked in the nightshitf for almost 2 years and can confirm this is so true.
This was me when my ex was asleep on the left, her when I was asleep on the right.
How else am I supposed to signal to the night owls that it's time to hit the bed before they got to wake up in 2 hours?
I wonder why
😂
See our house is totally opposite, I get up early, take myself downstairs feed the pets and have a nice quiet morning. My wife will arrive at bed at 1am, throw the bedroom light on, rattle all the drawers for PJ's, loudly demand I wake up so I can watch whatever Facebook video she's been watching and announce we should have a serious conversation about where we should book for holidays this year.
When I complain, it's 1am and I gotta get up at 6:30 suddenly I'm the reason we never talk anymore...
That don’t sound good bud.
If your marriage is worth it to you, a consider getting on her schedule somehow. Some people just don’t think about that shit. I started waking up before my ex because she was complete chaos every morning. She’d scream and throw things around. She was ultimately diagnosed with BPD right after we had a major crash and burn.
The girl I’m with now is the opposite. She’s calm, considerate, and an all around amazing partner. There are things she don’t think about though. She loudly looks for her pajamas too (she don’t turn the damn light on thank goodness) but I know she cares for me and considers me because she does so much to show it.
She wakes me up to talk too, but we’re roughly on the same schedule. It bugs me when she does, but it legit doesn’t bother her a bit so if I complained she wouldn’t even remotely understand why I was complaining. It’s no big deal to her to wake up and go right back to sleep.
Sometimes you have to make big changes for the sake of your marriage. Some people can work on opposite schedules and get along fine. Some people can’t.
I wouldn’t wish divorce on a modern day Hitler. It was hands down the worst experience of my life. I don’t regret it now because I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. I’m with someone who I work well with and who I love on a level I didn’t even know was possible (as cheesy as that sounds, I’ve never been happy to do things for anyone else like I do for her). She’s someone I legitimately want to make sacrifices for. If I had to go through that shit again though, I don’t even know if I could. I might check out early or just start walking and never look back.
Think back to why you married your wife. I’m telling you, once it’s done you will and it won’t be any fun.
Just hearing my ex talk just about drove me up the wall though haha. It did from the very beginning too. She was just cool as hell and an amazing artist. I admired her when I thought about her, just couldn’t handle her when I was around her. She was so arrogant and certain that she was the best thing on the planet, which was really just her insecurity talking and playing confident somewhat, but god I couldn’t stand it. I legit think she was one of the best writers the world has ever known, but so did she and good god.
Haha, I went on a tirade there, sorry.
Sir this is
wendyslemmyOhhhh shit. I’ll take a chairman Mao with a Lenin side. And ummmm, one order of Stalins with a Pot of Marx.
Oh, I have a lightweight in the car, he’ll have a Sankara with no extras. He said make it work this time around, please!
:p
Idk man, sounds to me like his wife is very inconsiderate, or unaware that some people are deeply asleep at 1am. This behavior should not regularly happen between people who respect each other and clearly communicate their needs. Maybe they can find a different solution than him changing his entire schedule.
Anyway, I just wanted to browse memes while taking a dump. Strange how these internet conversations come to be.
Literlly my roomate. He sometimes even goes through the house with a horn.
Those are the moments I wish for not living with him together.
There's a sleep disorder, diurnal, common for people with adhd. Their brains don't wake up, start functioning til 6pm, wide awake all night.
I'm so careful, courteous at night, super quiet, walking softly... then 6am, morning people wake, stomping, slamming, music blasting. So not fair.
It's not a disorder, humans are meant to have conflicting sleep schedules. Someone's got to stay up all night and tend to the fire / keep a lookout.
Shit man. I don't feel fully awake until 9pm and then it's almost time to go to bed. On weekdays I get around 4 hours of sleep.
Do you know if stimulants that are prescribed for ADHD help with that?
Yes. The stimulants used have a side effect of basically being turbocharged coffee.... That's the best way I can describe it.
I've been in prescription ADHD meds for more than a year and after forcing myself out of bed long enough to shove my medication down my face hole, within an hour, of that, it becomes impossible for me to get to sleep for at least 10-12 hours, even if I'm fully acclimatized to my dose.
Once when I neglected to take meds for over a month straight (pretty significant depression after a job loss, I'm ok now), the first time I started back on my medication, I was wired for at least 20 hours after taking my normal dose. Messed up my sleep pretty badly, but I got back on the horse right after and things calmed down a lot.
Since getting onto this prescription, I haven't had any issues staying awake, and usually as the meds wind down (wear off) near the end of the day, I can get to sleep at a reasonable time.
It's a stimulant, so that's not really surprising.
Been on Ritalin for a decade. Helps a lot. Used to be WAY disorganized.
Fuckin' A
My partner, 6am without fail.
To quote Liz Lemon from 30rock ,”OPPOSITE!”
Tell me you've never lived above a bar without saying you've never lived above a bar
I live a full 100 meters from a bar but every fucker leaving will scream at full volume as they are leaving. I'm so desensitized from women screaming at night that I could miss a genuine rape outside my front door and not even roll over.
Wait why are they screaming?
Alcohol
Drunk people find it hilarious to shout and scream at night. It's just drunk people things, if you ever live near a bar in a gentrified and popular area you'll understand
That’s almost as bad as the geniuses that build luxury properties right next to race tracks, then petition to have the race tracks shut down for lowering property values.
Unless the bar somehow snuck up on you?
Bars and churches often do sneak up on neighborhoods.
Churches?
I guess I am used to churches being hundreds of years old.
The old ones are usually not loud either. The loud ones tend to open and close often.
Might be a regional thing, I don't think I've ever seen a new church built in my lifetime. The only churches I see closing down are the ones in small towns that don't have the population to maintain it anymore.
I'm curious, do you see a trend in the denomination of these pop-up churches?
I imagine it's "regional" by the meaning that entire countries have them behaving in a similar way, but it's different from one country to another.
Anyway, I live in a 60 years-old city, so there are no centenary churches here :) yet they are still mostly older than the average for my country. There are entirely pop-up denominations that appear, annoy the hell out of friends and relatives that I have in other cities, then close down and disappear so that nobody remember their names anymore.
Restaurants turn into bars, bars turn into clubs. This can happen in the span of months in some cases.
Also some people may have bought during covid when there were no bars, some others may not be able to afford much else within commuting distance of their work.
I owned one and conveniently had an apartment above it in the past.
With that perspective I tried keeping it not too noisy. Speakers facing in a way to prevent noise pollution to the outside, less bass on everything too. Central speakers also get to be louder while speakers close to the windows are not as loud. It's not ideal but it's much better than being entirely careless.
The customers at least tend to not be noisy unless it's karaoke night. They have some common decency where I live.
I went to an Airbnb in Milano, in which in the middle of it's block was literally a night club. Literally block residents and people who come to party enter and exit the same block door.
However, I didn't hear anything, they soundproofed the hell out of this place, and the culture isn't loud.
i lived above three. The intersection is pee.
This post is more about housemate habits than it is about accurately mapping town volume level by time of day.
both are the second picture
yeah, in my experience night owls are just as inconsiderate
If you deviate from the norm, don't expect the majority to tip-toe around your sensibilities.
I swear if there's two types of people Lemmy hates as much Nazis and billionaires it's poor people and people who don't work first shift
This meme is saying that the people who work the first shift are inconsiderate.
Where are you getting the impression lemmy hates night workers?
There's several people in this thread going off about how it's not inconsiderate to wake people up at times like 1pm or 4pm regardless of sleep schedule or any other circumstances.
There's also another post about people mowing their lawns at the ass crack of dawn and it's full of morning people telling night people to fuck off and that it's their own fault.
I've also regularly interacted with people who simply do not respect night workers at all
That isn't a Lemmy thing, but a morning people thing. I've seen it all over.
Billionaires don't work first shift either. Maybe that's why they hate them.
When I had housemates in the past, I respected this until 9AM, at that point, unless you actually have a reason to stay up past 1AM (for an 8hr sleep), then I'm afraid then it sucks to be you and I'll just be normal amounts of quiet.
You just sound like a dick, dude.
Normal amounts of quiet. It's not like I ran around the house banging pots and pans.
I feel like Lemmy really self-selects for "night-owls" (people have different chronotypes sure, but like, if you're staying up to 3,4 AM, then you have sleep issues, it's not a chronotype to be up this late. Humans aren't nocturnal. And I say this as someone who has had sleep issues where I have been up that late. You know what I never did, complained that my housemates closed the door a normal amount at 10AM and made a normal amount of noise at that time).... that feel hard done by.
Like, it's called getting along with others, it's something you need to learn when living in a sharehouse.
I went to bed at 5-6 am for a few years. I didn't have sleep issues whatsoever. Slept the same amount and felt just as rested (more if anything) as now where I have a "normal" sleep schedule.
There's also people that, yknow, work at night, whose sleep might start at 9.
I don't think it's necessarily wrong to not limit yourself greatly on what u do based on if someones sleeping as long as you avoid very loud things (a pleasant fuck you to my mom (love you) for insisting she needs to vacuum at like 11 every second day when I had that sleep schedule), but your reasoning is just bull.
See I actually agree with you on this, to a point, that if you're working night shift and your mum knew about it, then it's pretty unfair to be doing the vacuuming at that time each day if she knows you're going to bed that late.
If you're just deciding/feeling it's better for you to be going to sleep that late with no other reasons, then yeah, I do think it was on you to come to some other compromise with your mum about when she can vacuum. In the early afternoon after you wake up for example.
It's the "other people should work around me by default" attitude that I take issue with. When the standard is be awake during the day (right or wrong), then I think it's on the people asking for deviation from that to ask for accommodation.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
You seem to only be accounting for people who are like yourself. It's hard to picture other people's minds because we only have ours to go by, but it's important to acknowledge that other minds work very differently from our own.
I was a habitual night owl in my twenties. Went to sleep at dawn and woke up around noon. I didn't have sleep issues, I was always incredibly rested and full of energy.
Now I sleep at 10 and wake up around 6. I have less energy but I am now a morning person. I can easily get up at 4 for occasions.
You're making judgements on others based on your own biased view, one that only sees it your way. That's why you're being down voted.
People should be mindful of noise at all times, but if it's late in the morning, I feel it's unreasonable to have an expectation of tip-toeing around without bringing it up and asking if you can come to some sort of an arrangement.
It's the expectation that I think is the problem.
Whereas the expectation that daytime is for normal activity is not unreasonable. Why? Because that is the way it has been and still is. It doesn't mean it's "good", or "fair", but it is the current standard and if you want to deviate from it it should be up to you to say something to get what you need.
We have norms and standards in society that people do expect, these different in different parts of the world. Bring a gift when you meet parents for the first time (east Asia), don't be loud at night (Nachtruhe, Germany). If you want to deviate, then yes, it's on you and communicate.
As I've repeated in other comments, if there is some reason someone needs to sleep at "unstandard" hours, then I'm not suggesting they just deal with it and suffer.
What I am suggesting is that it shouldn't be taken for granted that day time should be treated the same as night, and that staying up late should mean others need to tip-toe around during the day without asking (unless there is some other reason, or you ask for it to be different because XYZ)
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I agree, and what it boils down to is healthy communication and respect.
I appreciate you saying that mate.
I'm quite happy waking up at 3pm and going to bed at 6am. To be honest, I think anyone waking up at or before 10am and going to bed before 12am is a weirdo who has sleep issues and I just can't respect that. If I make too much noise when you're trying to sleep, well, that's just too bad innit?
/s
As mentioned in other threads, it's just the expectation that bothers me.
If you're deviating from a social norm (and right or wrong, it is still a social norm), I think it's on you to communicate it properly.
Again, people should be reasonably quiet at all times, but it is unfair to have the expectation that the day will be as quiet as the night without prior discussion.
You've not worked night shifts clearly!
He did mention if you had a reason you had to stay up past 1AM
Part of that might be the amount of noise required for the tasks
I'm not sure what you mean
They’re saying that things you typically do after waking up tend to be louder than things you do before going to sleep.
If you're sleeping off a night shift and I'm up early I'll be quite as a church mouse. But if you're just laying in bed for no reason then you can deal with the noise of whatever I need to get done
Why? Night owls aren't allowed to sleep until they wake up by themselves?
Morning persons are allowed to fall asleep whenever they want. You don't see us shouting just because you are already asleep before 12 'o clock.
Day time just is the default living time
I get up at 6 and go to bed at 10 for work but I'm gonna be honest anytime before 9 am or after midnight is quiet hours imo
Only because rich sociopaths decided that it was better to force the serfs into working at the same times than it was to allow people to work around the clock according to their own sleep schedules. Before you try to tell me that this isn't a rich people thing, you absolutely can't convince that it didn't start that way. Rich people's money may not trickle down, but their bad opinions and beliefs sure as hell do.
Doesn't it come from farming and probably even before that, with humans being diurnal
And what about the humans who kept watch at night?
They kept watch so rest of the tribe could sleep.
Right, but they're not going to do their job very well if they're sleepy. Over time evolution is going to select for the nightwatchers who don't get sleepy and overlook the shadows in the night, leading to humans who are comfortable being awake at night, and humans who are comfortable being awake during the day. The day humans get food, make clothes, etc for the night humans who make sure the farmers, gatherers, etc are safe when they're asleep.
Edit: I wonder if there's a correlation between being ADHD, being a night owl, and gun ownership. ADHD is speculated to be a residual evolutionary trait from when humans were hunter gatherers due to a typically heightened awareness; I wonder how often ADHD humans found themselves as the nightwatch as humans graduated to farming.
Depends on how far we're talking here. 8pm bedtime? Reasonable. 4pm bedtime? Yeah no I'm not tiptoeing for you.
Similarly, 8am wakeup? Ok I'll tiptoe if I can. Noon? Probably no.
"I only respect people who live similarly to me"
You shouldn't disturb other people whether they're asleep or awake. Buying a pair of slippers or flip flops for indoors and not slamming doors and cupboards isn't exactly a monumental ask at any time of day.
I think that's fair and true so long as both parties can talk about it and come to an agreement and understanding.
8pm bedtime is not reasonable to us. In Belgium the law says we can make noise until 10 before neighbors are allowed to call the police.
So by your logic, I can keep shouting next to the place you try to sleep for an other 2 hours.
I'm very confused by this statement. Does nobody in Belgium really go to bed before 10? If you knew your neighbor had to be up by 4am every day and had a child, and knew they had to go to bed by 8, would you not try to be nice if they were nice in kind?
Never worked nightshifts?
The cleaning crew at the hotel on my last business trips are always extremely noisy. But I've just hit the bed after my shift, some breakfast and a beer.
Would be nice to at least once get 6 full hours of sleep...
I have not but I simpathise for you. I tried to word my reply to indicate that there were cases that didn't follow my rule of thumb... Cases like yours it makes sense to wake up... Frankly whenever.
All the lazy people down voting you
"""lazy""" okay what if I think you're lazy for not being up at 2am?
It's scientifically proven that humans actually have differing sleep cycles. This has evolutionary advantages which is why it's a trait we retained.
Lazy people can't stay up until 2 o clock.
Pretty lazy to be sleeping at 8pm
Morning people are courtious and quiet for the ones sleeping late. On the other hand when a night person has to wake up early, they'll wake everyone else as well
I'm a night person but proper sleep only works at night so I had to become an early waking very quiet night person.
You failed the simple task of reading how descriptions work today.
Do I have a typo or something? English is not my first language.
I mean when a night person has to (for any of the variety of reasons) wake up at morning time
When s night person has to wake up early... What in the afternoon?
Appointments, travel, taking care of people. It can happen as society doesn't adjust for night people
Maybe instead of being exclusively for one group over others, our society could kinda be for everycritter?
[Sarcasm, though not necessarily directed at the person I'm replying to] Nah, why would we want a liveable world when we can just demand that everyone be a damn automaton that exists to work all day.
grouches irritably, hates world
Yeah agreed. Flexibility would benefit a lot
Oh fuck no, you should see the difference between me and my girlfriend when the other is asleep, I used to work night shift and she wouldn't wake up when I came back at 4am even if we lived in a 500sq ft apartment, but she sure as hell would wake me up at 7 am by making breakfast and coffee!
I had a roommate that loved pour over coffee in the morning. That in itself isn't the issue; she taught me how to use her V60 and it actually makes pretty good coffee.
No, the issue was she ground her beans fresh. Every morning, at 6AM. Know what the loudest sound in the universe is? An electric coffee grinder at 6AM.
Fuck that
Yea I'm quiet AF when I wake up early. The longer everyone else sleeps the more quiet time I get.
lol Why the fuck is this the most downvoted reply? Did you all even read it, or did you count the score and prepare yourself for outrage? There's literally nothing wrong with what was said. 'Night people struggle with morning behavior more than morning people.' Sounds like a valid perspective, esp if this person lives with/is a courteous morning person.
Kneejerk reaction or something. I don't mind. Maybe the voters were in a tired haze.