Meta payment message
So I got the message from instagram about either paying or using it free (at the cost personalised ads) just now.
Doesn't this go against the GDPR? Either way, is there a FOSS alternative for instagram like piped is to youtube? It seems like a good opportunity to stop using the official app, even though it would be better to not use instagram at all (sadly not an option for me right now).
Any suggestions, and if so, are there any that provide functionality for: stories, posts, dms? Those are the 3 things I use instagram for.
Many thanks!
Edit: For messaging I do use beeper, though some media like carousels and posts sent to my dms cant be shown in there, so for those cases I open the official app.
Edit 2: many people have suggested pixelfed. Ive heard of it, and want to use it, but unfortunately the only reason Im still sticking with instagram is because I have very dear friends who would never change to anything non-mainstream. Theyre important enough that im willing to not delete it just yet, but I dont want to agree to either pay or pay with my data.
What im looking for is more like a piped for youtube, thing. So a frintend that has instagram content/features, but isnt the main app and avoids the problems I listed above
Edit 3: I ended up installing the site as a PWA on my phone as thats the only device I use it on, and uninstalled the official app. Thanks to everyone for all your input!
Just STOP using their service.
This situation isn’t getting any better. After this they will regularly up the price and take out features that you are used to and charged you extra.
They are still gathering and selling your information. Meaning you might not get ads on instagram but your digital fingerprint is still being used literally on every other website that FB works with.
Corporate social media is a toxic parasite that’s only going to enshittify more and more while people are willing frogs boiling themselves slowly.
Join mastodon, pixelfed and peertube. That’s the future of consumer rights and clawing away from billionaire ownership.
It’s just more enshittification
It absolutely is not. You are using enshitification incorrectly. This is the core business model of facebook since the very beginning. They don't give a shit about people spending $13/mo. They absolutely do not want people to choose that option. This is literally about about a legal loophole they think they have found to get around GDPR and have people "opt-in" to the same kind of data collection their business is based on.
It’s linked to the same thing though. Investor pressure to produce a profit or sink. It’s the service getting worse. And Facebook wrote the book on enshittification- think 2006 Facebook.
Eh, they do want to maximize profits, but this is more about fighting back against the EU basically making their business model illegal not making their service worse in favor of profits.
Just because the EU is involved doesn't make it any different. This is like how Target is leaving Seattle because the city decriminalized shoplifting. The whole point is to punish the people in the place with laws they don't like.
Im already on mastodon and i use piped, but sadly I cant leave insta yet because i have very dear friends on there who i chat with, and they'd never switch to something else (... And meta knows this btw)
Your first mistake was making real friends >:C
If he only follows them through Instagram it's most likely a para-social relationship, and not a real friend at all.
Or friends who've decided that their "one app" for messaging is Instagram? I think something like that is a possibility.
I had to do the same thing. If they are dear friends then they shouldn’t have a problem getting a free app to chat with you. Otherwise sms is always an option.
Someone has to be the catalyst for change. Otherwise the corporate grip is only going to get stronger and soon enough all corporate social media will be subscription only.
Well someones gotta go first. Nah, I'm kidding and I get it. I tried it myself with Snapchat and Discord and it was a very slow and tedious process. But I got it done. Migrated to SMS for the people that refused to adopt a new platform and since SMS is ...quite bad it does get easier to convince once you're there. Feel somewhat guilty for bothering people but I sure don't miss the old platforms. Good riddance.
If the only thing you do on instagram is chat. maybe try Beeper? It's a matrix client with an instagram bridge. You still have to trust beeper but you can host your own matrix server and use their brigdes.
Instagram still gets your chat data but it won't be scooping up anything else.
I already do, but i need the app for some things like when they send me posts or stories :/
Beeper is great though
Corporate social media enshittens the smallest man.
Should have posted that chain-text to my Facebook wall years ago so my profile would be blue and safe...
Please forgive me,... I failed you all... 😭
I swear these specific copypastas are started by grad school sociology students for their thesis research or something.
Those, and the copypastas that end with "I want to see who's brave/caring/proud enough to repost."
Lmao completely forgot about that
"Your info won't be used for ads"
But we'll still be tracking everything you do and selling that on to everyone who wants it.
deleted
That said “will” not “won’t” FYI.Ah I’m dumb ignore me.
I have fond memories of the Internet 20-25 years ago.
How did it turn into this much of a mess? Social Media, SEO, adverts, data mining, profiling, privacy nightmares... what a shit show.
The venture capital dollars started running out. Returns started being demanded. Companies that made slightly improved and/or more accessible versions of more open products extinguished those products using venture capital dollars then started rolling out the enshittification, demands for money, intrusive ads, spying, dark patterns, sabotaging, paid tiers.
Back in those days the internet was a curiosity. A hobby. A fun thing to share, something a company might hope to break even on or earn minor profits with, these days big profits are demanded, centralization. Addiction to high resolution and size video and image content which is expensive to host and serve. The network effect drained smaller sites and resources, concentrating people in larger venues that had the investment dollars to support them at the cost of their privacy. Combine with search engine optimization and it became harder to even find smaller places. Add in digitally uneducated kids who thought fb and such were most of the internet and never bother to venture beneath the top 6 google results and older people and this is what you have.
Take something like Omegle. I don't want to defend what it was for most of its existence as the bad outweighed the good IMO (like 4chan) but something like that if made today would require linking your facebook or google account and serve you video ads every 5 minutes on top of banner ads. But back then it was just something some random guy could make for fun and not think "hmm I need real identities to monetize these people to ad networks to pay for this and turn a big profit selling the data they input".
Enshittification happened.
13€? Are they insane? If I were to use the platform I'd be willing to pay 3€ at most. 13€ is just ridiculous.
It's on purpose. They know most people won't pay, so now it's carte blanche to their data. And if somebody's desperate enough, they'll pay 13€ and meta will make more money on the user than with ads.
They will collect and sell your data either way. They just won't force ads down your throat if you pay them. This is what billionaires have done to our beloved internet.
Per account! I have 2 on Instagram an done on FB. They offered an intro price for €10 that would go up to €19 on may 1st. I believe it is because one of my accounts is linked across IG and FB so they count as one.. 🤷 lucky me! At this moment I have uninstalled and waiting to see how EU reacts to the "choice options". Its more like a forced option really
€12.99/mo. sounds wildly overpriced to me in comparison to 1) cost to serve and 2) ad revenue. I’m not an ad revenue expert, but I have a hard time believing they make anywhere near €13/user/mo. from advertisers.
I guess the information they gather is worth enough that overpricing the subscription makes them more likely to retain free users.
The wording and the dark pattern on this screen should be violating the rules already. They very clearly want people to stay on the free plan, and likely aren't even going to stop tracking users?
Maybe they just want to show how it "failed" and make a case that people don't care
My god I just glanced quickly and thought it was 2.99. Asking 12.99 is an absolute joke.
Meta makes their ARPU readily available to the public, so you really don't have to guess in this regard: https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average-revenue-per-user-by-region/
Last quarter posted there, it was $19.04 for European users, or €17.84 with today's exchange rate.
Those appear to be per-quarter numbers, and if so that would mean ~€5.95/month.
Looks like they report ARPU on a quarterly basis, yes.
Pixelfed it is then
Is pixelfed an entirely different platform? Sadly i have many good friends on insta who i talk with, and they wouldnt ever switch to anything else, so because of that im stuck with meta. Otherwise i would 100% leave it
It is Instagram but federated in a nutshell. Just like Lemmy is similar to Reddit but federated. Whoah, wait I saw your profile and you do not know about Pixelfed?
Ahh i see. Im going to edit my post now to specify that Im looking for an alternative frontend to instagram, such as piped is for youtube. Sadly i have friends on insta that I cant stop using it for now because of
Edit: haha ive heard of it, but its not really what im looking for sadly
Doesn't exist.
Just switch to Pixelfed.
Good friends will talk to you elsewhere like Telegram or Signal.
XD, I mean that you look like you would now a lot of this stuff, just that. Take it as a compliment.
Actually lemmy was my first introduction to federated platforms. Im still a newbie :D
This is called the network effect, it's a social problem and no amount of technology will solve this. So your choices are either to stop using apps where you are the product, and obviously convince your friends to stop that as well, or grin and bear it. Maybe think about what you did 20 years ago and do that instead.
I've given an ultimatum to friends and family, switch to fediverse or our interactions will be reduced to in person encounters.
I chose option C, don't use Instagram. But thanks, I guess!
The fact that the ad revenue button is more emphasized and easier to press (closer to screen edge) says a lot about the value of you being their product vs. you simply paying them for access.
Proxigram:
https://codeberg.org/ThePenguinDev/Proxigram/wiki/Instances
Pixelfed?
Edit: doesn't like Signal stories cover this usecase. I don't really "get" shit like IG tbh
Just wait 5 months, they'll add a bullshit feature like custom fonts and raise the price 83%
The sane choice would be to leave.
I heard in a podcast that this is primarily to address the requirement to not target ads for under 18 and will be free to them. They probably have to offer it as a paid service for anyone 18+ and priced it so that no one actually does.
Without a doubt, everyone is still being tracked.
Anecdotally, the last time I checked my dormant Facebook feed it was deserted. I wonder how many people hit that message and just decide they can just nope out and not lose much of value.
I mean, that's what I did the first time it popped up. I only ever logged into that in case somebody was trying to reach me for work stuff, and that never actually happens, so...
As for whether this is GDPR compliant, it seems that FB was convinced it would get them past the newer post-GDPR regulations and the EU has strongly signalled that it really won't, so it's gonna be fun to watch from the sidelines.
Thanks for the GDPR info (grabs popcorn to watch as well).
As for facebook, I only use it because of messenger for work, which I will delete as soon as im done with my BSc in about a year (I work at my uni). I dont have the app but rather a PWA on my phone, not that theres much difference.
However, Im interested in instagram because of good friends that use it
I think they probably learned this number from the iOS tracking opt in. It's not as large as people like to think. People don't like being tracked, but they'll trade it for free stuff pretty easily.
I setup my own pixelfed instance to share pictures of my kids and family. I own and control all the data on my server and no one gets to monetize pictures of my children.
Not many of my family members are on there but I still prefer it to Instagram
I dont have many photos, but thats not the issue. Its that all my friends are on it, and until I leave after my bachelors and need to have contact with them often im stuck with it. After i leave to a different country once i get my degree itll be easier, but for the next year or so im stuck with instagram because i dknt want to lose contact with them. As most people, they would never leave the mainstream thing behind, so no chance of converting them as well
Thats pretty much what I did :)
I used it and a think its not maintained anymore, but while I ised it had many bugs, its core features where very good though.
Pixelfed for true alternative PWA works Instander exists
Before I suggest this, I'm not 100% how private and secure this is, but AeroInsta doesn't show any ads and promises not to send cookies and any of your data across.
You can download APK from here
Wait, so it's either targeted ads or pay? Damn... Silly me thinking if you don't pay you still could opt out of targeted ads.
But yeah, isn't this against GDPR?
I'm certain it is. I sent an objection/data deletion request, and their "privacy info" pages are absolutely in violation of GDPR, because their forms are NOT reasonably accessible. I needed to use 3 separate mobile browsers and my desktop. When you finally get to the form, they ask some basic info, and the box where you're supposed to make a request ends by asking something like "what rights do you believe are being violated, and why?". The fucking gall on these cunts.
I planned on dropping some links, but they all have hard-coded non-functional redirects, which is intentional and absolutely infuriating. The redirects either just break like this one, which is suppose to be the one that contains a link to the form:
https://help.instagram.com/contact/117037592428568
Or they take you somewhere barely related, like this one which was the hidden start page for the form:
https://m.facebook.com/help/1221288724572426?wtsid=rdr_0bxiU4jakSVimlO8y
Or maybe it was this one? I can't remember, because it doesn't fucking take me to the page I saved the url for:
https://m.facebook.com/help/238318146535333?wtsid=rdr_0LKGtSJZTQyEH3R9N
Anyway, I'm mad if that's not obvious. If you happen to find the form, you can try opting out. I haven't heard back yet. Here's the thorough and crystal fucking clear message I wrote, feel free to copy/share it:
👋
It seems like a nice idea that they offer a paid option for an ad free internet
Still a privacy nightmare, with and without ads.
You can still use Instagram on your browser, without being shown the banner. Works for me with Firefox on Android.
If you do decide to opt for the subscription (I hope you don't) do it from your desktop browser since it costs 10€ instead of 12.99€. I haven't tried it myself, but that's what I read on a German website.
I still need to use the app to stay in touch with some friends and to get updates from smaller organizations that do not have a Web presence or newsletter.
I uninstalled Instagram when I was shown the banner. Not out of principle but I simply don't know which action would send the right signal. By continuing to use the app for free I would be sending the signal that I do not care about my privacy.
So do I pay for the subscription? I read somewhere elsewhere Meta makes more than that off me using targeted ads. So by subscribing do i still get to use the service and they make less money off me? There's no guarantee they honor the no tracking even if I pay.
So I've just uninstalled the app for now.
The fact is, they didn't say they won't collect data on you, they just won't use it for ads
Exactly. Best to uninstall and deactivate and stop using it.
Are there any VPN shenanigans one could try to make it cheaper?
Thanks for this reply. Ive installed the site as a PWA and uninstalled the official app. Theres no way I'm either paying or giving them consent for personalised ads.
The greed of these people is astounding
Its sad that most people are numb to it, and actually completely unaware/uncaring. They just click that they want to continue using it for free, which is exactly what mera wants
Have you tried the options?I proceeded to checkout where it told me the price would stay that u til maj, where it would double because I have two accounts (Facebook and 2 xInstagram)
What is your issue exactly here? The fact that this could go against the GDPR? If that's the case, I don't see how a third party client would help. IG would still collect info about you and show you ads. Also, you would probably get the same popup asking if you want to subscribe. Nothing would change (except that with a third party client IG would not be able to collect as much info about you as with the official app)
Anyways, you still have the option to not pay and keep using IG as before. Nothing changes.
I dont think so (correct me if im wrong). An alternative app might have access to the content etc and get around this paywall somehow.
As fir my issue with this, im in the privacy community...need i say more? XD
The only thing a third party app can do is keep phone based activity private. If you have to ping a server to do something, that point becomes their data.
This. Also, third part clients are usually just web wrappers for the actual official site
What are you doing using instagram if you care about privacy? If you're there for friends, then privacy probably isn't that important enough to you to quit insta. What do you do on insta anyway? Aren't your friends on WhatsApp too? What's the point of Insta?
Wouldn't they just skirt the technicalities with just showing targeted sponsorships anyways?
instander
Is there an open source alternative?
There's proxygram which is still a work in progress, but it's already looking pretty good for now imo
can't find one but i remember a GitHub repo with a list of foss/floss program alternatives
AFAIK nothing changes. You can still turn off personalized ads in the privacy settings. I believe that nothing changed.
No but try MyInsta
Remember that time WhatsApp (
just after Facebook acquisition) introduced an annual fee you had to pay for using it, and then after everyone payed they removed it?Wasn't that how they financed themselves before facebook?
I might remember wrong if that's the case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp
So they started the subscription before the aquistion, but discontinued it two years after that.
"Your info won't be used for ads". Does that also mean that they won't collect any info about you? Theoretically, they don't have any reason to collect data anymore because you pay them.
Your info won't be used for ads means exactly that, nothing more, nothing less.
They will still collect this info, they will continue building a profile of you, and they will continue selling this data.
But others will pay for your data. They’ll collect it all anyway. Even if anonymized, it’s still valuable.
PWA
What's that mean?
Progressive Web App.
Its like "installing" a website to your phone kinda. Usually if you open the menu on your mobile browser, if the site supports it there will be an option to install the site to your phone as a web app.
Choose wisely.
I didnt see it mentioned but, Ive been using Instander for some time. Its been great!