Lemmy.world Admin Response to Defederation from Exploding Heads
We're closing this thread. Everything that could be said has been said. Thank you
Original Post:
Today, we want to inform everyone that we have decided to defederate from https://exploding-heads.com/. We understand that defederating should always be a last resort, and individuals can certainly block communities. However, blocking alone does not prevent potential harm to vulnerable communities.
After carefully reviewing the instance, reported posts, and multiple comments from the community, we have concluded that exploding-heads is not adhering to the Lemmy or Citizen Code of Conduct. Therefore, we cannot, in good faith, continue to federate with an instance that consistently promotes hate, racism, and bullying.
Examples:
https://lemmy.world/post/577526 - Community Moderator Harassment
https://exploding-heads.com/post/92194 - Systemadmin Post
https://exploding-heads.com/post/90780 - Systemadmin Post
https://exploding-heads.com/post/91488 - Systemadmin Post
https://exploding-heads.com/post/93725 - Community Moderator Post
Again, deciding to defederate from an instance is not taken lightly. In the future, we will continue to review instances on a case-by-case bases.
As for our community, please refrain from posting or commenting with hateful words as well. Arguing back and calling people names is not the solution. The best course of action is to report the posts or comments violating our server rules.
Lemmy Code of Conduct
https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
Citizen Code of Conduct https://github.com/stumpsyn/policies/blob/master/citizen_code_of_conduct.md
“We are committed to providing a friendly, safe, and welcoming environment for all, regardless of level of experience, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, or other similar characteristic.”
I'm no fan of defederating over minor disagreements but yeah, some types of people are just incompatible with building a welcoming space. Good choice.
I agree with you that it was a good choice and that it's necessary to foster a friendly online culture.
I haven't seen any calls for defederation over, "minor disagreements," though. I have seen lots of people saying that we should defederate from places like exploding heads so that we dont allow them to get bigger and then those people being told that they shouldn't call for defederation over minor disagreements.
I've seen a few around the place but they tend to get shut down pretty quick so I guess that means most of us are on the same page, which is nice.
Everybody crying about free speech because they got cut off from the nazis are very welcome to go sign up with the nazis and let the door hit you on the way out.
That seems like the right choice. Those seem to be some pretty vile people. They can have their free speech, but it doesn't mean we have to listen to it. Normally I'd not be in agreeance about defederating, but hate speech shouldn't have a safe haven among us. Thanks, for defederating from them.
Thank you for your diligence, transparency, and for being proactive about this. I, for one, am glad to see that racism, bigotry, and homophobia are not welcome on lemmy.world, and that the admin team takes that seriously.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. Good for everybody
For the alt/far-right, everything slightly to the left from the "normal right" is far-left.
Hell, if you ask them, Fox News became communist when they said Joe Biden won the election.
Basically this. As soon as you don’t support trump you are a Marxist. Doesn’t matter that you share 90% of their beliefs. That’s the mark of a cult, which by definition precludes rational thought
I don't see a single pro trump comment in that thread.
Hey but they think they do, and that’s all that matters to mentally deranged people
You always have to put it into perspective. The reaction when beehaw defederated from this instance was also not met with elation here but most just were dissapointed and I did not read any slurs or colored swearing insults.
Edit: I went over to see what the fuss is about. And the first thing I see is "tranny faggot" and justification for "joe biden is a pedo". Lmfao really? Nothing lost by defederating from that such a cesspool.
Well, shit, they're just making me like this instance even more.
Thank you. One of those dudes were over on sh.itjust.works when they defederated it, arguing that the exploding heads community was totally fine! As you can see... no, it was not: https://lemmy.world/comment/577634
You can expand the rest comment section for context but the screenshot in the link speaks for itself.
Edit: here come the downvotes! The exploding heads guys really hate that I screenshotted & exposed the cesspit they call home. Lol
Yikes. Good riddance.
Thank you for your transparency! As always, very appreciated.
Good! The older I get the more I realize that free speech at all cost is bullshit. Every idea or thought does not deserve a platform.
It's called the paradox of tolerance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
In Spain we have an old saying (maybe it's international, but I just heard it in Spain): My freedom ends where yours begin. Meaning that you're free to do what you want, but not when others are affected in a negative way (your noise disturb others, your hostility affect others, etc). When I see some people in the US behaving like assholes claiming that's their freedom I realise they don't actually understand what freedom means.
In the US (at least where I'm from) we have a similar saying that goes:
Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my face begins
Same essential meaning but some people here just don't get it.
We use it in Greece too
Freedom of speech should only ever mean that a government cannot retaliate against or stifile someone's view on politics. It should never equate to freedom from consequences for hate speech, by anyone.
Free speech does not mean every idea or thought deserves a platform. It's a doctrine of being able to express one's idea without fear of retaliation or censorship from the government. And it is also a very indivisible idea, either you have free speech for everyone or for no one. There is no middle ground because as soon as you introduce the idea that some ideas should censored you lay the groundwork for all ideas to be censored.
Free speech at all costs is not bullshit but also, defederation is not censorship.
Not necessarily advocating for giving everyone a platform but an interesting thought here is how we should treat the concept of free speech in an era where so many important things are under the jurisdiction of private entities. If 90% of public squares were owned by companies who restricted what you can wear, say, and who you can talk to on that public square, that would technically not run afoul of free speech but definitely would practically heavily restrict people's ability to freely express themselves. Meanwhile, this exact scenario is the case on the internet with private corporations owning most of it and are free to remove whatever content they want at a whim.
I’m familiar with the argument I just think it’s outdated.
Free speech is fine. The interpretation of "free access to anyone's eyes and ears at any time" is bullshit.
Voat is an excellent example of this. Unmoderated speech -> Nazi infiltration -> removed from app stores and shut down.
Come to think of it, are there any libertarian "no rules, block users if you can't handle it" social networks that haven't catastrophically collapsed into toxic hellholes? ....like are there ANY examples of this idea even working?
The thing free speech absolutists never understand is people have tried their plan PLENTY of times, in fact it has been tried over and over again in an exhausting cycle of amnesia. It never works, running a community fundamentally requires choices and moderation.
It’s a curve, you think you are getting wiser while it’s the exact opposite
Or you can build a better argument and debate the idea. If its not a call to violence, its just words and ideas battling it out.
I believe COVID showed very well that this isn't the case. Not to mention, when you're debating something like an astrophysics concept, it makes no sense to allow a professional basketball coach to weigh in.
Sometimes you can have two people from the same fields with different point of views. Even if they're not, there still may by new perspectives and ideas that may lead to something better, whatever it is.
Of course, but that doesn't mean I bring a freshman college physics student equal grounding to a seasoned quantum physics expert in a debate about quantum breakthroughs.
Even within the same field, you have to look at the weights. If 1 climate scientist says global warming is bullshit, and 9999 climate scientists say global warming is an obvious and clear phenomenon, I'm going to believe the 9999.
Even if just falls down to being a dumb opinion, I still rather be able to be said.
Debates don't convince people to change their minds.
I have a tendency to debate people, even when I already know I might as well bash my head into a wall for all the good it'll do me. But I still do it and here's why:
You're not trying to convince the person you're responding to. Everyone knows that certain people, e.g. anti-vaxxers, will never be convinced, no matter how many sources you cite. You're not putting in the effort for them; you're doing it for the people who might be reading, the ones who aren't lost causes yet, the people who simply aren't knowledgeable about a subject and could fall victim to such misinformation if it were to go unchallenged.
It's a public forum, there's always someone reading.
Edit just to say: I fully embrace this defederation. That instance is a cesspool and no amount of 'debate' would ever change that. I don't want that on my feed and everyone who does is free to join them or make their own instance.
Debates don't convince close minded people from changing their minds.
This kind of attitude is defeatist - if the person you're discussing with isn't willing to budge on an issue then it's not a real debate. We should all approach discussions knowing that we are all fallible, but can correct our misjudgements.
I mean that's literally debatable lol.
COVID-19 proves that rational debate doesn't work. Heck, even the results of recent US and UK elections prove that people are so brainwashed and incapable of rational thought that they'll support their side like a local football team, no matter how badly their policies screw them over.
Arguing with a right-winger is like playing a game of chess with a rooster. No matter what you say or do, the rooster will knock over the pieces, shit all over the board and strut around triumphantly.
Wait I'm confused because people got banned for speaking about vaccines, and a lot more information is still coming out about them. My point is even if that person is a person with a brain of a cock he should still be able to speak.
I'm not gonna lie that more testing could have been done on the vaccines that came out (AstraZeneca was specifically linked to substantially increased risks of blood clots in young people weeks after the first jabs were administered), but there's a difference between this and outright anti-vaxx rhetoric.
COVID-19 was also an international health emergency that could have gone so much worse if every country governed their efforts like the ass-clowns who ultimately prolonged the pandemic by dismissing their seriousness and half-assing their efforts (Boris Johnson, Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro come to mind.)
Good call! Thanks for creating a welcoming atmosphere for all!
It's weird to say that as they defederate from a community. I don't know anything about "explodingheads", but I always prefer to choose what I do and do not see.
I have no doubt that the "explodingheads" community is shitty, but I don't like the precedent of protecting me from the world on my behalf.
The Paradox of Tolerance: If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people.
To create a safe space for all ideas, the intolerant ideas cannot be tolerated
Then maybe this isn't the federation for you. I'm sure there's at least one host out there without standards.
You are free to still join exploding heads and their instance if you want. That's the beauty of lemmy. It's also other instances choice to join with them or not. This one chose not.
It means when choosing between allowing people who are minorities, or people who want to harass minorities, the admins here prefer the minorities.
You can have one or the other. I know which I prefer.
Also, horrible politically incorrect jokes are fun, however, the last few years have led to people genuinenly believing in them instead of making fun of them, so things are a bit more uptight generally in the world.
The thing is.... it isn't to protect you if you don't feel you need protection. But this is a community, not a monolith. Consider that you always have the option to join a second community rather than forcing two communities to stay together for your convenience.
And in an online space that's federated, there is a really strong incentive for the admins and mods to keep us *informed when defederation is happening because the community on the other side are extremely likely to notice and let us know either way. So at least you can keep track of how censored these communities are is in some fashion.
You're able to launch your own Instance and it will federate with everyone and you can do what you have stated.
The admins and mods are doing this out of a sense of duty to the community at likely a financial cost to themselves.
I've abandoned many a website because moderating was ruining the experience because users wanted to give too many people too many chances (notably competitive gaming spaces)
And what's stopping you from checking out exploding heads? The site runners have said that exploding heads stuff isn't appearing on their property. They don't, last I checked, have any control over what sites you visit using your property.
See how that works? Freedom of speech means the shitheads at exploding heads can say what they like, but it doesn't mean other people have to listen. You want to read shitfuckery, they're right over there. Head on over!
This instance smells like Spez, good luck not getting cancelled here
Lemmyworld isn't a state. If you don't like bigotry being delt with here, go to a different instance.
I don't like memetically enforced political agendas that parade around as people's personal decisions. And you're right, now that I see joining this instance was against my personal interests without realizing it but also understand why a larger instance would need to curate their content. Right-wing memes aren't usually good at pretending to be a joke. Easy to censor half the politics in the country under the guise of being inclusive.
It's not censorship. The bigots at exploding heads are free to say whatever they want. We're just not going to listen to it.
Nor is it half the country's political beliefs. Calling people slurs and making fun of people's race isn't a political belief that makes up half the country.
Free speech doesn't mean people are forced to listen to anything and everything that is ever said.
While I understand and respect your perspective, I'd like to offer a different viewpoint. Let's not forget that the principle of free speech is fundamental to maintaining a democratic society. It ensures that everyone, irrespective of their beliefs or ideologies, has the opportunity to express their opinions.
The statement "Easy to censor half the politics in the country under the guise of being inclusive" raises a valid concern about how inclusivity might be misused to silence dissenting views. Certainly, bigotry and hate speech have no place in a civil discourse. However, it's important to distinguish between these and legitimate, if controversial, political views.
While you are correct that free speech doesn't obligate anyone to listen, it does protect the right of individuals to speak their minds without fear of censorship. When we begin to label certain political ideologies as inherently offensive and seek to silence them, we risk creating a homogeneous society where only one set of beliefs is considered acceptable. This undermines the very concept of diversity and inclusion, as it prevents the representation of a wide range of perspectives.
Furthermore, it's a slippery slope. Once we start censoring political discourse under the banner of inclusivity, where do we draw the line? Who decides what views are offensive and should be silenced? It's easy to pretend that defederating from an instance because there are SOME users posting 'hate speech' isn't censorship of half the country’s political beliefs. But the people who can tolerate those people are also being defederated. In my own experience, those people don't tolerate that behavior by choice, but are more understanding that a persons circumstances usually impact their habits and behaviors and that not everyone can afford enough therapy to straighten those things out.
By your definition anybody who does't open their home to any travelling neonazi preaching their ideology is "censoring" said neonazis.
The impression that passes is that your black & white absolutist definition of "censorship" is just you just trying to weaponize the word for your own political ends rather than having given it genuine thought.
It's not a "slippery slope" because it's not the kind of situation were a little bit of limitation leads innevitably to total limitation: there is an actual point somewhere in the middle where somebody's right to speech stops and somebody else's right to not be drowned in the shouts of those they consider abhorrent starts.
No rights are unbound in a society because there are other people who want different things, often contraditory, who have rights too, and its mathematically impossible for everybodys rights to be unbounded, and that applies to the right of Speech as much as it applies to, for example the right of not being insulted or the right to Silence.
Those who are genuinelly trying to be fair about all this are not looking at the Right To Free Speech as an absolute right because any right being an absolute would trample on everybody else's different but related rights - a situation of maximum unfairness against everybody else - what they're looking at is were that right ends and other people's rights start, or in other words the right ballance between everybody's rights.
Personally, whilst I think Lemmy users should be allowed to, themselves, totally block instances rather than it being delegated to unelected server admins (and yeah, I know that sufficiently technically expert users can set-up their own instances - and I am one such user - but that's not scalable and discriminates against most people, who have no such expertise), I see this as temporarily acceptable action given the current status of the code since anybody who wants to hear that speech can make an alt on that server.
While this is a valid perspective, it's important to understand and acknowledge the nuance between our values as ideals and our values as they interact with our other priorities.
There will always be concerns about how inclusivity might be used to silence dissenters. Yes there is a difference between trolling and hate speech vs. legitimate controversial views. But this exists NO MATTER the approach administrators take, or refuse to take. The difference is that admins can be held to account by the community that follows them. But dogpile flamewars that arise organically when there are no limits to free speech ALSO silence dissent. And unlike admins, participants in a gangland comment war cannot be held to account by the community in the same way.
And while you are right that it's important for individuals to speak their mind without fear of censorship I seriously question whether disconnecting an automated P2P exchange of online posts rises anywhere close to the level of censorship you seem to be so concerned about here. We don't risk creating a homogenous society from defederation because it's not censorship, merely categorization and fragmentation.
Did the creation of cable TV risk censorship because people had to flip the channel to watch something different? I would argue the opposite. Comedy gets better when the people actively searching for comedy are it's audience. Serious discussions are more insightful and productive when people know this is a place where we are comfortable speaking seriously. Creatives feel more open to getting weird and niche when they are in a space where diverse modes of creativity are encouraged.
How is defederation so different from creating more options for the tone or genre of content you're looking for? There's nothing to fear about the slippery slope of censorship so long as this community is not a whole entire society that can put limits on your internet browser. This fear seems to hint at a worry that people can't be trusted to know how a web browser works.
And while censorship can be a slippery slope, we should celebrate how the admins are doing the precise opposite of that. I think it's important to acknowledge that here we see a case-by-case investigation into whether the Instance is adhering to the agreed upon code of conduct, attempting to understand context prior to defederation. But we always knew there were trolls on the internet, and we always knew some of them would start hosting their own Instances. The function to defederate exists because the developers of the protocol realized this was an inevitable eventuality and that without safeguards, any space could devolve into 4chan.
For all the times I've heard this, I've yet to actually see it happen. The only people who claim this happened to them turn out to be bigots of some kind.
There's your line. Bigoted speech is not welcome. Value judgments about born traits are not welcome. You have to be a pretty pathetic person to dislike someone for a trait they were born with.
Imagine thinking only people in the US uses lemmy.world
It's just not a funny joke though.
Here because it's the internet I'll one-up you: Imagine that the only way you knew how to start a joke was by saying "imagine."
... see how funny.
"This is a private website, not a country where the government is censoring you."
In a world where other people need to narrate the setting for you so you remember where you are...
"If you don’t like it for any reason you can easily sign up for another instance or create one of your own."
The only way to come across helpful information is by being beaten by a crowd for expressing dissatisfaction with administrator choices...
"Nothing is even stopping you currently from signing up there and using both."
The majority rallies around the idea of the admins doing the work for them while repeatedly telling others if they don't like it go do more work..!
"America also isn’t the only country on Earth that uses this site."
And users repeatedly get stuck on the idea that a website that has a community called politics that seems to only post about the United State's politics has minimal users from the United States itself...
"Nobody is going to think you have good intentions when the place you’re defending for “free speech” are people freely using the n word and other slurs."
And the main character is so bogged down by having to repeatedly point out that conflating what they've said with a user's own biased interpretation of what is happening to get anything else done.
"The usage of the term comes across as disingenuous and people have a right to not want to engage with it or its members."
Unilateral decisions by the admin team rule, with hungry packs of users ready to pile on to an already resolved conflict, Reddit style...
Somehow I don't think this community is losing anything when you leave in a huff (or get banned).
You did ask, when you joined the Instance you kinda agreed to that instances Admins choices. I mentioned above but if you dont want a "nanny-state" because the Admins of this instance make choices you don't like, you're welcome to launch your own Instance and it will federate with (almost) everyone else at the start, and as the admin of that Instance you can disable who to federate with.
Yes, I can now see that my choice was poor with no prior experience with the protocols involved and just joining someone else's instance.
I think a great many of us are learning how it all meshes, and interacts. Many may have a similar complaint to yours, and not aware they can launch their own Instance yet
Lemmy mods are no different from Reddit mods really
Literally go and see yourself. It's so incredibly lukewarm that it's hilarious to see the level of groupthink and conformity in this thread.
Good riddance
Fantastic. I don't want to have to block all transphobic shithole communities since that requires me looking at them. If hateful people could just group together in their 4chan bubbles which are defederated from sane people, that'd be awesome.
And this right here is what separates Lemmy from voat: active community moderation that works to limit the reach of hateful bigots. While I’m a big proponent of free speech myself, I do agree that many kinds of ‘speech’ aren’t the most conductive thing for building a welcoming platform; especially one that caters to many vulnerable groups.
This move also highlights the core strength of a decentralized platform, by the way: while people who no longer want to engage with this content can stay safe, nobody was deplatformed! We achieved a clean break without banning or ‘silencing’ anybody.
So, good job on responsibly using the defed hammer!
Free speech includes my right to not listen to you.
Agreed! A country with free speech is a free country, which means people have the freedom to ignore speech as well.
Damn those sysadmin posts are dire.
I'm hoping that eventually a free speech Lemmy instance pops up that has admins that are less cringe
While almost everyone tends to agree with the principles of freedom of expression, whenever someone says, "This space is an absolute free speech zone" or similar, you can almost always assume they're just fascists who got told https://xkcd.com/1357/
I think most people strongly dislike free speech, but they want the right to express themselves, and the government allowing dissent is a necessary evil so they keep their own free speech. That's why they jump at any opportunity to limit everyone else's speech. People loved to say reddit was a private platform that can do what they want, so long as they kept the censorship to their political enemies.
No, people don't dislike free speech, people hate bigots, Nazis, etc. If the political position you want to discuss is based on hate it's not "a difference of opinion" and it's not "censorship" when you get your ass shown the door. go to truth social or one of the .win sites with your fellow shitstains if you want that.
Can we please not do this "style of arguing" here? If you reply to a comment, reply to that comment by replying to the points and arguments in the comment. Don't make up stuff or twist words.
Dont worry, it was removed for your protection.
I am always wary of people using ‘freedom’ as an argument. Most of the time it is followed by ‘because I want …’.
Equality and freedom have to find a balance. I don’t do to others what I don’t want for myself. Even if that is limiting my ‘freedom’.
Depends on what you mean with "free speech". If you think "free speech" is about having unmoderated online spaces, yes, most people definitely dislike unmoderated online spaces because most don't like toxic communities..
But you do realize that the government cracking down on speech is an entirely different issue to defederating a lemmy server, right? The exploding-heads are free to run their community however they want.
Feel free to create one, just don't get upset when other instances want nothing to do with the toxic community this inevitably creates and everyone de-federates you..
Sure, in principle, as long as “free speech” isn’t just cover to spew toxic bullshit all over the place. No one has to put up with that and you better believe it’ll be defederated by most instances.
Sure, in principle, as long as “free speech” isn’t just cover to spew toxic bullshit all over the place. No one has to put up with that and you better believe it’ll be defederated by most instances.
You already misunderstand free speech completely, nice
Me too. But exploding heads will probably be bigger in the long run anyway.
I'm happy you guys announced it and posted visual proof of why you decided to defederate from them.
Trasparence in the management will shine a bright way ahead!
I'm not a fan of de federation except in extreme circumstances... but this is a good choice. Its not a couple mods being slow to respond to reports, but real nasty speach from admins.
Thank you.
Thank you, admins!
This is one thing you're getting right that Reddit never got right. They let shit like the_donald fester for years.
I believe spez endorsed those views himself. Makes sense too, he’s a doomsday prepper and an Elon Musk fanboy.
"Valuable discussion"
thanks for this. Feels good to be on an instance that takes it seriously!
In case it hasn't been suggested before, it might be a good idea to give users the ability to block a whole instance, rather than one magazine at a time
https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2397
To those whinging about the decision to defederate Exploding Heads, think about it this way.
Mastodon once got a massive influx of users because Gab attempted to expand their influence as a far-right Twitter competitor by joining their fediverse. The various other instances responded in kind by collectively defederating Gab because they didn't want their platforms to be flooded by the racist and bigoted gruel that Gab's clientele were spewing out.
And here lies the beauty of free speech and the fediverse. People are free to create an instance with their own rules, but others are also free to disassociate from them.
Any time you limit the MAGA maggots it is a win for everyone.
I just love how we are reminded to observe the simple rules here. That's great. ;)
Originally reddit was very observant on what they called rediquette. But I honestly don't recall seeing it mentioned for the past 5 years.
As things degraded and rediquette was more and more needed, instead of reminding each other of it, it seems to have disappeared.
Enforcing Reddiquette would mean less trolling, which is bad for Reddit because anger fuels engagement.
Yes, the recipe for twitter and facebook too.
I hope that the fact that this is a community not run for profit, means we will be better, and remember to behave with decency.
I must admit it happened I got sucked in, so I ended up deleting my reddit account a couple of years ago.
I think it was a typo, but fund is actually quite appropriate. Plenty of forums back in the day were funded by donations and ads. No ad aggregators though, so in the best forums you only got ads from quality, community relevant, vetted services. Membership meant something because your dimes literally kept the lights on.
I don't like this "pay with your privacy and dignity" world that social media threw us in.
I remember SMW Central having small, non-intrusive, user-created paid banners at the top. I always make an ad blocker exception for them.
Those days were also nice because there was no DDoS protection, if they pissed you off enough (or enough other people) you could strike them off the Internet with enough bandwith and peers. Ah good times.
Ah, yes, the golden days of cancel culture
/s
That would be today, right now, this post in particular
Reddiquette and the disclosing of how much server time was paid for by Reddit gold. Both previously disclosed to the users and now missing.
Good. I was getting sick of blocking them every time one of their new communities popped up that wasn't blocked yet. I have yet to see a single thread from that instance that didn't immediately make me block the user and community.
Good riddance.
Thanks, a sensible action to take.
I hadn't been exposed to it, but it sounds like something I don't want to see.
I looked over there and you don’t lol
I'm the head mod of /r/darkbrandon (75k) doing a voluntary migration to Lemmy & Kbin. We do not condone the behavior shown in that moderator post. I've setup a community on this instance so I'm just reaching to say that officially. Take care and thanks for hosting.
I am trying to create a tolerant NSFW community on lemmy, it's the first time I hear about this "Citizen Code of Conduct". While I am totally opposed to Doxxing and general harassment, there is this part which concerns me:
Where does this apply? In lemmy code contribution? or in the communities? If this applies to the community, this is quite worrisome.
Went over to their site. I found it ironic that their ten level reply thread complaining about the defederation made me realize that the different level reply colors form a rainbow. Hopefully that isn't for just June, it is very helpful when trying to figure out who is responding to who.
My favourite comments are the ones calling people sensitive while they proceed to cry about not being listened to. Bunch of soft cunts lmao
I found that amusing too. They are mad we aren't forced to hang out with them
I support this move after a quick glance at their site. Thank you team!
Agreed, all types of discrimination should be destroyed quickly. Lemmy needs to be aware of the paradox of tolerance - the only thing we can never, ever tolerate is intolerance.
Too bad you are defining intolerance as whatever you want
Good move. We don't need to tolerate nazis. Though the code of conduct is admittedly progressive and this in itself will exclude people who are conservative. I am OK with seedy underbellies, or areas with people I don't agree with and I think we should avoid being moral police where possible, but the rhetoric on exploding heads is too much. They aren't actually conservatives they are just insane people, literal crazies that belong on 4chan or voat, or maybe truth social if that's still a thing.
I’m not usually a fan of defederation, but I'm actually glad to see it in this case. It's beneficial to have healthy disagreements in opinion and interactions with people who don’t share your views. However, I haven't witnessed anything positive resulting from these interactions so far.
I really appreciate your transparency and responsiveness to the community.
This is great. Free speech and edgy jokes are one thing, but this is literally just random crazy racist sexist bullshit with a classic case of Biden derangement syndrome. Why even bother federating with these boggarts
This is how you do it. The Code of Conduct is established. Habitually violating the Code leads to defederation. It's simple, and need not be dramatic.
I don't want an echo chamber, but excluding bad actors is not the same thing as excluding differing views and perspectives.
Good riddance. You want your free speech? Fine. You're not owed my free ear, though. Take your insufferable twaddle elsewhere.
Good. I'm glad to see active moderation nip these in the bud, unlike Reddit several years ago.
It's crazy to me that people find those types of racist and distasteful posts funny. Does anyone here know if kbin has already defederated with exploding-heads? And yes I have already blocked the domain. This type of shit doesn't belong on the fediverse.
I'm on kbin.social and I've never seen an exploding heads post.
They may be getting drowned out by the huge lemmy instances. I've only seen a bare handful of content from them, but the quality of every one made me refresh my memory on blocking instances. I really never thought I'd be advocating defederation so quickly, but we already have a 4chan and it's not kbin
I don't think they've targeted kbin in the same way exploding-heads seem to have targeted other Lemmy instances, but when I checked a day or so ago we were still federated. I blocked the whole instance ...but I can't now remember how that was done. Somehow you can make an instance appear like a magazine from kbin, then you can follow or block it in much the same way too.
Edit:
From the comments below, head to https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com
Then at the bottom of the page, or from the kbin menu, choose the no-entry (i.e. block) symbol which is next to the subscribe button.
Yes you have to go to kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com and it should show up as a "magazine" then you can block it (For anyone that hasn't done it yet)
edit: forgot .com at the end of the domain, thanks jalda
That's the magazine on kbin. It's not their instance. If it were federated with kbin.social it would be accessible like this: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected], but it's not. There's no way to see which instances are federated on kbin, so maybe it's already gone.
The “d” in the URL actually stands for domain. It’s actually the entire instance not a magazine. It’s the correct way to block an entire instance individually as a Kbin user.
Perchance. But I'm pretty sure blocking /d/exploding-heads won't hurt anyone.
This is wrong, the reason it doesn't load your link is because there is no community/magazine called "main" on that domain. If you go to https://kbin.social/m/[email protected] instead, you will see it as normal.
Also, the user above is indeed talking about blocking the whole instance, not just one magazine. If you go to that link with /d/ it is for the whole domain.
There is a community called main on exploding-heads: https://exploding-heads.com/c/main
you have to add the .com at the end of the domain name
Oh true I forgot that wait
One thing worth mentioning is that this only blocks the threads. You'll still see users if they hop into a thread on an instance you haven't blocked.
Tested this by temporarily blocking lemmy-world and checking some redditmigration (a kbin magazine) threads. The users on lemmy-world will still show even if it's blocked.
I saw one once but I cannot remember if it was kbin.social or lemmy.world because I have tried both.
Since you can see their users' posts I think it means they aren't defederated yet, I think ernest is a bit overwhelmed at the moment to deal with stuff like this but it should be brought up, sooner better than later.
It's been brought up and is on his radar it seems. Until he can address it kbin does at least have the ability for users to individually block instances.
https://kbin.social/m/kbinMeta/t/103709/Antiwoke-magazin-on-kbin-social-posting-bullshit-like-how-to-end#entry-comment-420377
@hypelightfly
Yes, but to block an instance as a user doesn't offer the same level of protection that to defederate the instance. If a user blocks an instance, she/he doesn't see the posts coming from this instance in her/his thread. But the user cannot avoid being seen from the blocked instance and potentially being harassed.
https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/375
@lwadmin @genoxidedev1 @Ragnell @Kaldo
Thank you for linking that. I'd seen the original thread before he'd had a chance to reply. Even with help, I worry about his workload, but I'm always grateful to have such an open and dedicated admin
I think I'll go ahead and find and block them, thanks. Both of you.
This response is really great. Part of the reason I stuck with Kbin was Ernest
wouldn't you have had to subscribe to one of their communities to see those posts? If that's true, your observation isn't evidence they are deferderated and you may still be seeing their users comments on other posts.
Point. None of their posts are getting to the front page.
Ernest commented on the situation, but I think he had a fair bit on his plate at the time.
Yeah I'm not urging him to do anything, he shall taketh as much time as he needs. Was just asking, but meanwhile blocking the domain individually suffices I'm pretty sure.
I saw them from kbin a few days ago.
Do they find it funny or are they just shit people that like being cunts?
At this point, I’m past caring. I just take them at face value and move on.
Thank you
Good, and thank you. No need to tolerate hate and I would be happy if we had a low bar for instances that encourage hateful conduct.
How hard is it to defederate and re-federate an instance? I'd like if the admins had the ability to remove instances if they weren't properly moderated, and then add them back if things improved.
I heartily approve. Thank you.
I disagree that defederation shouldn't be taken lightly, if it looks at all like a nazi instances, scalp & move on.
Good work, no notes.
To all who don’t like this decision, that’s fine. This isn’t the only Lemmy instance, that’s the whole point of a federated system. Go to another instance that aligns with your values.
Do you have any thoughts on beehaw blocking lemmy.world? Are you working with them to resolve the issues?
It seems like a rather large hit to communities as a large number of subreddits have landed there to help lemmy grow as a whole
I moved to Lemmy.world because Beehaw defederated from everybody else.
If I wanted a walled garden that only allows intelligent debate, I'd just go over to Tildes, especially since Deimos is an ex-Reddit admin who actually knows what he's doing from a tech and community moderation standpoint.
I don't think the beehaw block of lemmy.world is a permanent one necessarily, it is based on much different circumstances than the block of exploding heads (differences in growth philosophy vs hatespeech/nazis). At some point in the future lemmy.world and beehaw may federate again.
Good call. I think within my first day or two here some idiot from exploding heads was commenting on here about being banned by beehaw and just acting like a complete tool. We’re better off without them.
Thanks! The admin over there doesn't even follow their own posted guidelines.
Thanks
I'm sure there are a lot of nuances here I'm not familiar with--but, in general, I'm always in favor of insisting on ('enforcing'?) "adult behavior". I have a zero tolerance policy where I solo-mod. If you can't talk/disagree politely with someone, then you need to go somewhere else...
Great communication, I think this is a smart move.
This is a relief. Thank you.
great news everyone!
This was definitely the right move, and one of the big selling points to me. Like reddit would ban subs, but the users were still there. So all the bigots still got to post everywhere and just create a new sub. Now they can keep their area and be over there.
To be fair, this was usually answered by banning them
Subreddits that didn't want to deal with it would have automod use the minimum karma rule, which was usually lax enough that new people got in soon, and people who were clearly problematic would usually just constantly end up with karma too low to actually post in those subreddits, and eventually banned again anyway.
People got in sometimes but it wasn't particularly common.
It also won't stop exploding-heads users from just creating users on Lemmy-World, just they can be banned if they're problematic, and makes it a bit harder.
bye Felicia
Thank you, I'm all for open communication but there is a limit. Good decision.
I expect to see a decent surge in Nazi instances for a good while, but it'll die down once the initial wave is pushed back. Keep at it, and good work.
Is there a definitive list of defederated instances? Since this would be a dynamic list I would hope each instance has this linked on the main page, (ideally with justification on who the said instance was defedarated and why).
I will gladly take one for the team and sell him a Lemmy for a few billion.
I'm not that greedy. I would sell him all of Lemmy for only one billion. He only has to deposit 10% of the tag price before I deliver the keys.
Nothing of value was lost.
Absolutely justified
Yikes, good call admin.
I understand the decision.
Wonderful decision!
Thank you for this!
What about the situation with Beehaw?
I agree with this decision.
I would really love the ability to further delineate how severe a block we create. Ex we might want to block their content, or their users, or both. We might still want to allow them to view our content but not comment, or we might want them to be able to participate in a limited set of communities.
It would give federations a way to "keep the lines open" and allow a way for a possible future where we refederate.
Not a huge surprise, the communitties are diametrically opposed
I think Lemmy needs something like filter instead of cut off or not. Similar to search engines save, medium, no filter. Before cutting everyone appart completely.
Block them if you are in kbin https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com
Just checked it out. Yup.
There was an effort to defederate from an instance that has maybe 1000 users?
I'm not sure I agree with the decision but I'm not against it either. I would much prefer a recommended block list that can be default on upon signup, but that is not currently an option. I liked the email analogy of lemmy, it would be strange for gmail to full on block any communication to another email provider. Yes, spam filter all of it, but cut it off completely, I'd have to see something violent or dangerous coming from the admins.
I don't like this. It might be ok in this example but ... generally, defederation should be a democratic decision, voted by the users of an instance. Defederation blocks access to all communities on this instance. Its like my ISP blocking the country of France because he don't like their leader. Users should decide for them selves which community to block. We have the tools for this. Yes one can create a second account on another instance but constant switching instances is no solution.
Clown world indeed
lmao Redditland 2.0
Liberal ideology is incompatible with modern society.
EDIT: Downvoters have forgotten GOP's interests align with homophobia, racism and many other forms of discrimination.
Genuinely curious, whats wrong this post: https://exploding-heads.com/post/90780? Seems like they are making fun of the actress, and even then thats a edited picture. All the other ones make sense in violating the rules, but not sure why this was flagged as inappropriate?
I'm not an instance admin, so I don't speak for them.
From my perspective, I don't want to see that kind of meme in my feed, but I also don't think that alone is enough to defederate. That meme along side all of the rest, though, shows that this particular admin enjoys posting troll content, rage bait, and hateful material.
Now, go take a look at the rest of the content on the instance. It isn't all bad but there is a high ratio of hateful content there relative to other instances.
So, while that one particular post may not have been the worst thing in the world, it could be seen as falling under "harassment" in the Citizen Code of Conduct and shows the general mindset of the instance admins. When taken together with the admin's other posts and the prevalence of hateful material on their instance, it indicates that the instance is unlikely to be a welcoming place and will likely continue to violate the Lemmy Code of Conduct and the Citizen Code of Conduct.
I'm happy that lemmy.world has defederated from exploding heads and might have moved to a different instance if they hadn't.
Ah got it, was really looking for place in the code of conducts here that I missed. Thank you for the explanation!
Yeah, based on her physical appearance.. Lemmy.world does not even allow namecalling, so it shouldn't be hard to understand that "making fun of people" based on their looks (some would call that bullying) is not in the spirit of this community and lemmy overall..
And we also should keep in mind that this post was made by an admin, not by a random troll in their community. This clearly shows that the admin has no interest in creating a community that is compatible with lemmy's values.
Thanks for the straightforward answer, was really trying to get more context and you provided that.
Fine, I'll assume good faith and answer this: They are clearly making fun of that actress (in that role) specifically because she's black, and in a way that makes fun of her appearance because to them black means primitive or unsophisticated or something.
Even if we assume for a moment that they don't have a racist bone in their bodies and were making fun of a white person in the exact same meme, it would still be making fun of a person based on their physical appearance, which goes against lemmy's, lemmy.world's and officially even against their own spirit..
And you can argue that this is taking it too far or being too sensitive, and if that was the only meme posted here, I would probably agree with you. But all the memes together show a clear trend and show that when it comes to this admin at least, there is no interest in creating a healthy community. When you have rules like:
"Be authentic. Be respectful. Everyone should feel welcome here. No threats or personal insults No discrimination"
and then have admins who, at the very least, bend those rules and post provocating and controversial content only to then go "oh no, we are not edgelords, we actually care about our community very very much and want everyone to be friendly", it does not signal responsibility at all.
And the most important part with this post is that it wasn't posted by a random immature internet troll, it was posted by one of the site admins.. If they can't even moderate their own admin's actions according to their own stated rules, they are either incredibly incompetent, they are not committed to actually creating a non-toxic community or they aren't really interested in following their rules in the first place..
Well said. I didn't even look into it enough to realize those aspects of it.
While I agree that EH contains some hateful material I would have preferred if the lemmy.world community was some how included in the decision beforehand.
I'm sure in this case the result would still have been federation. But it would feel less like someone else needs to protect me from some idiots trying to be edgy.
I run a mastodon instance and I wouldn’t ask my users for feedback regarding defederating anything. I wrote the rules for the instance and it’s my decision whether or not another instance (be it the instance itself or its users) is breaking the rules. Users can migrate elsewhere if they have a problem with that. There’s some shit that I will never allow anywhere near my instance, full stop.
Community input is great for a lot of things, but defederation isn't one of them imo. That’s an admin decision.
Yep, at the end of the day it's your instance, so it's your responsibility and if people don't like it they can choose another instance with different rules or pay for their own. At most, maybe the people who actually donate via open collective or the patreon should have a hand in the decision because they do actually keep the lights on, but ultimately if you're donating you have a level of trust in the people who run the instance(s) to make the right calls.
Great if it works for you and your community on mastodon. I still feel different about how to handle this but it's not a deal breaker for me.
I believe it can be reasonable to defederate without including the community beforehand, as long as it communicated as transparent as it has been done here, and allows discussion of the decision afterwards. If the content is as harmful as the examples make it out to be, the faster the instance is defederated, the better. It seems to me that if the decision was wrong or the community against it, it could just as fast be re-federated.
It's okay if you agree with the admins way of handling this. As long as I don't get the feeling the admins defederate from everything that voices opinion opposing theirs, I won't leave lemmy.world over this.
Oh really? Then please explain why you guys let this slip.
With the level of control and how power hungry the mods are, trying to stifle the discussion in the exact same way reddit does, this place will just become a smaller reddit with somewhat more intelligble posts.
Are we going to defederate from lemmygrad and lemmy.ml too? Or is blatant tankie spam OK? I have a feeling that this community just wants to censor anything that’s right of center. Which sounds pretty fascist to me if I’m being honest.
I am not too familiar with the instance. But I fail to see how are the linked posts harasment? Only the screenshot of the private message is bad. Sure they are dumb and bad memes, but not enough to defederate.
These posts are not any worse than what everyone is posting about u/spez these days.
I was hoping Lemmy could be the reddit replacement I was looking for, but obviously not. This type of idiotic bullshit "by design" is precisely why none of these federated sites stand a chance of replacing something like reddit.
I've only been here a week and there's already been a bunch of defederations. I wonder how long it will take for all instances to defederate from each other?
Please don't defederate just like that. Defederation tells your users that we are not smart enough to make our decisions, and that we need the admins to make the decisions for us. I assure you that is not the case. We can block users or communities that we see problems with.
I agree, Exploding heads admin admits they allow racism, which is actually illegal, so no question they should be defederated, even if it was just for legal matters.
I have no idea why this is downvoted? Maybe people don't know it's true?
https://exploding-heads.com/post/159228?scrollToComments=true
@Wigglehard: (admin)
"You cannot forbid people to think in a way that does not correlate with your ideas."
Typical attempt to misrepresent the actual topic at hand.
Yes, you can't police what people think. But you absolutely can (and should) impose consequences when people express what they think in such a way that demonstrates that they're garbage.
For the umpteenth time: freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. If you want to say hateful and offensive things, then expect people to not want to hear anything you say.
No, racism is simply tribal behavior gone wrong, and racism IS discrimination, it's just one form of it.
Nobody is forcing defederation on users. Users can move to another instance. If you have a hard time finding and instance that allows you to view their toxic propaganda then maybe you should join their instance.
I have 50+ years experience being a cis woman in this world. I have fought tooth and nail from early childhood to not be dehumanized, objectified and controlled. I'm fucking tired of having to fight all the goddamned time to simply exist unmolested. I specifically seek out spaces where I don't have to do that so I can actually relax and enjoy myself for a change. If you want to tolerate assholery, fine, go wallow with the pigs I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. But arguing against keeping this space clear of that bullshit directly affects me, and that I care about and will push back against.
Disagree. Defederation is an important tool to be used. I applaud their stance against hate speech. Any instance that supports violence against anyone for that matter should be treated the same.
I don't want to be exposed to shitheads in the first place. I want admins to shut them up before I have to go through the trouble of blocking them. I don't want to play whack-a-mole.
Really? An Exploding heads admin openly admit they allow racism:
https://exploding-heads.com/post/159228?scrollToComments=true
@Wigglehard: (admin)
certain levels of racism and offensive material is allowed
That's actually illegal in most countries.
Huh. Those posts actually don't seem too bad. I actually am a user over there, and seen some actual racism there from time to time.
I'm always not happy whenever a free speech instance gets blocked, but as was the case with Poast, I can't be too mad about it if the users are participating in racism.
I was hoping to change the culture over there but I'm just too busy IRL to change the overall tenor of that instance on my own.
This may not be true in your particular case, but A LOT of assholes think that “free speech” is a license to be deliberately ignorant and hateful, while facing zero consequences.
By trying to rebrand hate speech as “free speech”, they’re ignoring other fundamental principles of society. The US Constitution, most religions, and numerous laws can be boiled down to one guideline: don’t be a dick.
Dropping n-bombs with impunity is NOT what free speech was intended to be used for. It was meant to protect those who criticized the government or needed religious freedom, and is supposed to prevent the government from retaliating against them. In short, free speech was intended to make people more tolerant, not less.
Don’t put up with closed-minded assholes because they “don’t seem too bad”. Racism is NOT something you want to desensitize yourself to. Ditch them and don’t go back.
https://exploding-heads.com/post/159228?scrollToComments=true
Kapow: (moderator)
This being lemmy.world not accepting things like bigotry, transphobia, racism and sexism.
@Wigglehard: (admin)
They are not talking about not liking girl bands, when they say offensive, they are talking about exactly the bigotry, transphobia, racism and sexism.
Nough said, and this was just from the first post first 2 comments on their front page!
If there's an instance or group that has racists in it, there are two things that can be done;
You can join that instance, diluting the racist content on the site, if not pushing back against it, preventing the racists from posting racist stuff without being challenged
You can leave/ignore the community, effectively allowing the instance to continue being racist
I try not to participate in the second option, because that's how things like /pol/ came to be the way they are today. And again I have a life, but if I didn't, I'd spend more time pushing back against the racism (which seems pretty rare cuz the only time I came across it was in one post where someone was posting reasons to defederate from the instance; they were a bit worse than what's included here, but I never saw that content in any of my feeds).
Lmao thinking option 1 is actually viable tells me you don't understand the experience of being a member of a marginalized group and having to be the spokesperson and educator for every small-minded or even benevolently curious outsider. It is not the responsibility of the LGBTQ, Black, Indigenous, AAPI, Jewish, women, disabled, or any other community to educate racists. In fact, it's really fucking exhausting for people in these marginalized groups to explain for the billionth time why they deserve the same rights as cishet white Christian men, or that xyz term is hurtful, that George Soros and Bill Gates are not trying to depopulate the planet, etc.
These racists get an endorphin rush from bullying. You can go ahead and put a target on your back but I assure you, they know they're saying awful shit and they do not care about who it hurts because that's the point. You're not going to be able to dilute that content because you will burn out.
Letting them have their racist hellhole without giving them further visibility is absolutely fine. If they get a reputation for saying horrible shit, they'll only attract more horrible people, and then fewer horrible people will invade the spaces where everyone is respected.
Consider the paradox of tolerance as well. Defederating sends a clear message that hate speech is not permitted here.
Fundamentally disagree, many of these radical spaces recruit off the "normal" spaces quite often. By having them be separate they will have a hard time growing, sure the population who is radicalized will stay but these ideas need constant growth and they pray on young men who honestly don't know their place in a world and are increasingly feeling helpless and sometimes they are given "easy" answers for rather complex issues. "Free Speech" social media typically end up drifting off to the right because those who are normal typically don't want to be associated with the "racist shithole" part of the internet.
Edit: You probably already know the "nazi bar" example thing and yeah that is how it typically goes, no normal person wants to be associated going to the bloody nazi bar unless you are a weirdo.
No, things like /pol/ came to be what they are because people like you disregarded awful, horrific shit because it was couched in something that reassembled a joke. If the "free speech absolutist" folks would have left the community, rather than explicitly defend their "right" (to be clear, the right to free speech does not extend to private locations or forums. In fact, a platform removing hateful speech is literally them exercising their right to free speech) to say it, the site would have disappeared into obscurity a long time ago.
Glad I chose kbin over lemmy at this point. I'm hoping @ernest to be more levelheaded and not wield the defederation hammer as lightly.
I'd prefer being able to see as much of the fediverse from one instance as possible.
"No fair! I don't want to have to go somewhere else in order to see hate speech!"
Meanwhile; the things I've seen:
Wow, amazing examples! So much ownage there! You're right, I also want my fake Trumper news all over Lemmy! God knows that's what I miss the most from Reddit; antivaxx bullshit and insurrection supporters!
It wasn't my intention to try to "own" anyone. The content I listed is literally what I've seen from the few communities I subscribe to from exploding-heads. Neither look like they could reasonably qualify as hate speech to me.
So you're arguing that the claims of hate speech on that instance are overblown because you've seen exactly two posts, neither of which you consider hate speech?
Cool story.
That is an oversimplification of the "cool story".
@VoxAdActa called me a "cry baby" out of nowhere, "for having to go somewhere else to see hate speech".
I then showed him what I've seen so far from having been subscribed to two different communities over on exploding-heads, and I went on to state that I hardly see how that content is hate speech.
I was trying to elaborate that I wasn't interested in whatever memes they have in a certain community over there, but rather the other content that can be found on that instance, of which I gave examples of. Examples that I would argue are not hate speech in the slightest.
To answer your question though; I'd argue that the claims of hate speech seem overblown to me, yes. Not because of my limited exposure to the instance, but by the examples brought in the defederation announcement, which seem to consist of a couple of bad, edgy memes.
So comments calling Michelle Obama an ape, or a meme making fun of burning LGBTQ+ people, aren't hate speech, they're just "edgy"? Cool. "Remember when God burned a whole bunch of gays? Good times!" is about as textbook "hate speech" as you can get, but you keep working on how to excuse it as "humor".
Regardless, the fact that you're subbed to exactly 2 of the hundreds of communities on that server does not make your personal experience a valid representation or defense of admin/moderator policies and actions from that server. If the community takes the stance of "fuck them" and advocates that "admin’s keep their edgy content on alt accounts and in communities that pussy instances can just block", then they're absolutely going to be a continuing source of problems. If you really want to see their content so badly, you can create a login on another server that hasn't defederated them (including their own server). That's how this whole things works.
I actually agree a bit that the original "cry baby" response you got seemed a bit excessive, but the more you talk, the more it seems to have perfectly identified you.
Perhaps you should report them. From the lemmy code of conduct:
"Personal insults, particularly those related to gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability."
Oh wait, being ageist is perfectly acceptable.
Also, the "you can just block them" apparently doesn't work. I blocked you, but still continue to get notifications that you've replied to me, and can see everything you say from there. So I guess what you want for us is to not be able to respond to antivaxx pro-coup bigotry (because I couldn't write this comment until I unblocked you, even though I could see yours), but we should definitely be forced to see it.
If it makes you feel any better, I had blocked you too after the "cry baby" comment, when I suddenly got a notification that you had replied, and similarly unblocked you just to respond. Funny how that works.
I like that your examples are a long-repeated "call" for freeing a guy directly involved with attempts to interfere in US elections, and an idiot anti-vaxxer being pushed by rightwingers as a democrat candidate.
I do suppose that some could view exposing wide spread corruption, human rights abuses and war crimes as interference.
Regarding the latter, surely the focus was on decriminalizing cannabis. I personally find that laudable for any political candidate, no matter where in the world they are located, geographically or on the political spectrum.
It just be so hard going through life not being able to read or think critically
My focal point is the content linked, as in RFK Jr. calling for decriminalization of cannabis. I understand that @TheRealNeenja focuses on him being an undesirable or whatever, but I don't see how that matters in the slightest. I've already stated that my interest was in the part about decriminalizing cannabis.
As for the part about interference in US elections, don't worry. I can't vote, and I don't much care about US politics. Not more than keeping up with it in order to know what'll get exported to the world soon enough. I'd rather see decriminalization of cannabis being exported than the usual identity politics and authoritarian censorship in the name of security, but hey, that's my preferences.
Yeah ok. You just want to ignore all the shitty stuff because you'd prefer to talk about cannabis because that's an easier narrative to defend. You're not fooling anyone here
It's really not being wielded lightly in this case. This instance is defederated from many instances at this point. They're not providing valuable content, and seem to be constantly invoking the Nazi Bar analogy.
And I honestly expect Kbin will probably do something regarding it at some point. As someone else noted Ernest is very overwhelmed atm. There was a post yesterday where he responded saying he's working on more moderation tools.
What you might call "censorship" is also called curation, and yes, people flock to instances where content is well-curated. An instance owner likely goes to a lot of trouble to create and moderate some communities where people can have fun discussions about cool things. They bring forward cool stuff, and they remove shitty stuff.
Popular communities back on Reddit had mods that didn't just act as the bouncer at the door, but also did things like setting up AMAs with guests, or getting the community to post pics of John Oliver.
Cope
Ernest has already said it’s on his radar and he will get to it when he has the chance.
I agree. I'm an adult. I'd like to be in control of what I see. I really don't want my instance administrator to make that call for me. I can easily block users and communities I don't like.
Then jump to a different instance or create your own.
Precisely. Want that garbage? Go join their instance then.
I can only speak for myself, but that's why I'm on kbin and not on lemmy.world.
Blocking is a good tool for users of an instance.
The point that a lot of people seem to miss is that those who admin an instance are responsible for the federated content from other instances.
It's a matter of time before their content crosses legal boundaries if it hasn't already. At the very least, the federated content can be considered indicative of your own content.
If you want to be an adult that hosts this shit on your instance, that's great. I wouldn't.
This. We are all adults, or should be. It's ok to not find their memes 'funny' in any fucking way, but for the admins to choose defederations, its a bit too much, since we can at user level, block specific instances.
The community largely doesn’t want to see it. Look at the upvote/downvote ratio of any comment critical of this move.
Eh, if you see racists and nazis on the street you would also try to avoid interacting with them.
This is the Lemmy equivalent of "enjoy your cesspool of vile and hatred, but please keep it confined to the dumpster you call an instance."
More than warranted in this case, as outlined by some posts of even the admins and mods.
More directly: ANY instance that claims that explicitly allows "some" racism should be defederated immediately.