My wife has to be up at 4am for her job, which means I'm up that early most days too. It isn't a choice that we want to. But it is a social life killer. You invite me to arrive at your house on a Tuesday at 7 for an evening of dinner and games or something, the answer is probably going to be no.
You'd be surprised by the number of ads you see that were created by a dude who grabbed a bottle of whiskey, did some cocaine, and locked himself in his office for the night.
Actually, based on the quality of the ads out there, maybe you wouldn't be surprised at how they come up with them...
A sleep scientist/professor named Matt Walker has a podcast about, you guessed it, sleep. He talks about this and how it's very unfair to people who are biologically programmed to get tired later.
He goes on to describe scientific proof of the effect this has on their sleep and the impact to their health. It's sad really, but his hope is to raise awareness and acceptance of the night owl's schedule.
This attitude is maddening. I am diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome that will turn into a non 24 hour rhythm if I let it. I've worked with sleep doctors all over the country, most recently Duke.
I'm lucky that my work lets me start at 11am, I don't get enough sleep those days but better than it could be.
Unfortunately I'm on call every other week, so forcing my clock to reset isn't an option. It takes me 6 to 10 weeks to get to societies ideal sleep schedule, and a single night of interrupted sleep to undo all that work
The weeks I'm not on call are my weeks with my daughter, who has to be at school at 730 and there's no bus for her to ride.
Either week, my schedule is fucked and I'm in a haze all the time. Helpfully anyone who finds out about it just tells me to excercise more (makes no difference, ive done a lot of testing and exclusion), stop caffeine (tried it), stop using screens of any kind after work (been there), or any other thing that they think I am doing wrong and causing the problem.
I did not expect to rant that much... I completely agree, science means nothing in the face of feelings and preconceived notions.
I feel ya. I've got the same thing. Luckily I'm still young and don't have kids so I can at least adjust my schedule consistently, but man it sucks having to get up at 6 am on the weekends.
The real frustrating bit is that I could totally get up 2 hours later if only I could WFH consistently. But corporate doesn't like remote work so I have to go into the office at least 2 days a week to sit at a computer all day and program.
Wonderful world we live in
I am diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome that will turn into a non 24 hour rhythm if I let it.
holy shit I just randomly found this post a year later and spent the last few hours reading about DSPD and non-24. I've just always chalked it up to "being a night person" but reading the wikipedia pages was like a description of my life for the last 25 years.
but now that (I think) I know I have it... it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot that can be done.
It's not only about being tired enough to fall asleep early. If I stick to a 10pm-6am sleep schedule I feel exhausted during the day, and by early afternoon I'll be falling asleep. It's like being jetlagged permanently; my body simply doesn't want to keep to that schedule. It's not just an "oh, you need to stick to the schedule long enough to adapt and get into a proper routine" situation either - it's something I struggled with for years while I was in school and university, despite getting enough sleep.
It's amazing how much better and more energetic I feel - physically and mentally - now I'm able to keep to a sleep schedule that suits me. Obviously exercising is a good thing, but early/delayed sleep phase syndrome are real things.
This. I work physically, get up just before 6 am, return tired as fuck and can easily go lights out at 8-10 pm half of the year. Doesn't help. If I wake early, I feel tired all day.
Yeah, whenever I get up early, like 5 am, I wind up feeling sleepy and groggy all day and need a nap when I get home. Yet I can get up at 7 and feel fine all day, not need to go to bed till 11 pm.
I can’t fall asleep at 22:00. But my ideal schedule if I work permitted it would be 02:00 - 10:00. When I’ve kept this schedule before it’s literally night and day how better I feel.
I could go to sleep however early you like but I’d still be wrecked at 06:00.
Typically around 04:00-12:00 for me. Fortunately, I have a job that fits nicely around that, so I'm in a pretty good place overall, but when I do have to try to shift to more "normal" schedules it really wreaks havoc on my energy levels and mental clarity.
I've tried all sorts in an attempt to make a "normal" schedule work for me, like sleep monitoring, therapy, sleeping pills, and just being really over-the-top about my sleep hygiene (like not allowing screen usage for X hours before bed, no drinking or eating X hours before bed, etc). I can sort of make a "normal" schedule stick but I never feel good for it. And it takes constant work because my body naturally wants to gradually drift back towards a 4am sleep time, and I find going to sleep earlier than previous nights very difficult so once it starts slipping it usually takes an all-nighter to get it back to where I want it.
Like I said, I've generally got things pretty good right now with my job and lifestyle working around my sleep schedule. But it'd certainly be a lot easier if society didn't think I was lazy and was able to accommodate me (and other people with less "normal" sleep schedules) a little more.
Humans are terrible bioreactors. It'd be the world's worst energy source! Not green in the slightest considering how inefficient we are at converting food into treadmill energy, and how much resources are required to make our food.
I think this is a good point, even if unpoppular. Physical activity can help a lot with sleeping. Colleagues, please, notice there's "many of us", not "all of us" in the comment before you downvote.
I think part of the unpopular reception is that those of us that suffer intractable sleep issues are told this constantly by people who just don't understand it or are just out to shit on people they think are lazy.
From my parents convinced that I was useless and lazy, to co-workers who are sure I'm just too stupid to be able to sleep well, to partners I've had in the past... Always explaining to me how I'm doing something wrong, and surely if you just try to sleep you can. No. No I can't. No matter what I do, even sleep aids are only effective for a week or two at the most.
It's insulting to constantly hear people tell me that I just need to do this, or that and I'll be able to sleep. Yes, I see it says many of us, but decades of being shit on for something we can't control takes a toll.
I've struggled for 30 years to sleep 'acceptable' hours. At best, I can wake up early if I have to, and I do a lot because my child's school starts way too damn early on the weeks she's with me, and I'm on-call every other week when she's not. That means I get 3-4 hours sleep most week nights. I'm too old for this shit, but I have no choice and no options. We know that not sleeping enough can have severe effects on physical and mental health, but if you aren't on a 'normal' schedule that goes out the window.
I'm a night owl and a morning person who works on a farm/cattle ranch. I had a 27 hour shift for the first time last month and I was kind of ecstatic about it. I felt proud when I got home and crashed. I also have a lot of willpower though so it's easy for me to push through work stuff with very few freaks.
I guess this is my way of saying that everyone is different.
Welcome to farming. During harvest, 36 hours straight isn't uncommon. And driving back and forth lifting and lowering a combine header is far from the sort of thing that keeps one alert.
That's insane. He's literally saying "early bird gets the worm" is true and we should punish the early bird. When the obvious solution is to set your damn alarm earlier.
Christ I hate you people. You think everyone is a morning person, some people are just lazy about it. You are literally incapable of imagining that other people are not like you.
Yes I know many people are lazy, and the last thing anyone would call me is a morning person. But I am motivated to earn money and make my business succeed which means making decisions that financially benefit the company first.
Or figure out something that doesnt require you to be up that early?? There is science out there that there are genuinely "morning people" and "night owls", setting an alarm is a fine thing to do but it literally is in opposition to some people biology. I have been fortunate in my line of work (nursing, where shifts are usually either 7am or 7pm start times) to find a shift that starts and noon and ends at mid night, perfect for me.
Yeah exactly, there's plenty of demand and opportunities for 2nd shift or 3rd shift work out there. Just because there's no demand for 3rd shift bank tellers doesn't mean there's a problem.
If some humans can handle lactose and others can’t. Some suffer from migraines whilst others don’t etc. you don’t think it’s possible that we also have different circadian rhythms.
Perhaps you could exercise some critical thought. Maybe go read any of the various studies on sleep and make an informed decision rather than a knee jerk reaction.
Also, positive intent. Just assume people are being truthful for the most part. Life is easier if you’re not looking to shit on people.
as CEO? any other C-suite position? Because a publicly traded company's #1 duty is to generate profit for share holders. "touchy feely nice nice" policies go as far as they can before they start impacting profit.
Buses, that makes sense. But never in the history of bike lanes has replacing a car lane with a bike lane meant as many cyclists using that lane as cars did before. Replacing car lanes with bike lanes in no way helps efficiently move people.
It's better for the environment, so I support it, but let's be real here.
Well, never is a bit of a strong word here. Copenhagen and Amsterdam have something to say about that. Now I'm not a fuckcars person, but I do see the value for those places. I am also aware that it works there because of multiple factors that do not necessarily translate well to other places, not just plopping a bike lane and hoping people won't just use it for parking their cars. Oslo, for instance does not have the same infrastructure for bikes as Copenhagen does, presumably because they get worse winters?
I'll say this, though, I was extremely surprised to see a traffic jam on the bike lane and no jam on the car lane.
Did they add a bike lane? Or did they replace a car lane?
I can 100% guarantee that any place that has removed a car lane and replaced it with a bike lane has people moving less efficiently. The math is inescapable.
I'm a privileged business owner, I'm open when I say I'm open. I'm not going to start a nigh shift just because someone wants to work one. they only way I would is if some government entity punished me and forced me to do so.
Adapting a system to suit more people when it exclusively suits you will always feel like oppression. In reality it is letting others enjoy the privilege that you already enjoy
Night shifts are the only night owl specific concession and society as a whole of very much does not run like that. Flexible work schedules are the outlier by a wide margin.
So if I set my alarm earlier than I will turn it off and wait for my emergency alarm to go off.
I should got into bed earlier: well it might work but I am just not tired then. If I go to bed at 10 or 11 pm I will just stay awake for hours in my bed.
Luckily I have wfh and don't have to attend meetings before 10 am. Sometimes I get out of bed 10 minutes before 10 and I still feel tired.
Bottom of the wrung entry level coal truck drivers start at like $30/hr so I don't feel too bad for them. A buddy of mine is an electrician at a mine and makes 50/hr days and i think nights are automatic overtime. He plans to retire at 40.
Damn if I actually did anything productive when I was night owling, I would suggest we take it back, but I'm still working my way through Baldur's Gate III
As an early person I think night owls have it better in some ways, yeah work can start early but if you want to do anything "cool" it's always late at night. Wish they'd do more daytime concerts and stuff
One of the best shows I have seen was Sun Ra and his Arkestra opening for Sonic Youth in Central Park July 4th 1992. The show started in the afternoon.
It was and I went in knowing nothing about Sun Ra. My hippie buddy was less than impressed with Sonic Youth so we dipped halfway through. SY isn't that great outside and Sun Ra was remarkable.
The only other time I saw parts of the Arkestra was when Trey Anastasio closed the Academy and some of the band playing that night were in the Arkestra.
When I get off work, I have a good 7 hours of daylight, all the stores are still open, I can take a nap without ruining my sleep, I have plenty of time to play with my kid. I'm very cool with going to bed at 9-10 if that's the tradeoff.
If you like loud, raw techno music and darkness, you could go for a morning party at Tresor in Berlin when the tourists are gone (and only the most dedicated heads are still there). I went there recently from ~6AM till 12 noon, and had a really great time. However, I'm no early bird myself; I had been awake in the streets through the night, but didn't go to Tresor until the afterhours. I believe less than 30 people were there along with me, everybody respecting each other doing their thing and enjoying the experience. No idea if that's a good way to start your day though?
Ah, a fellow neitheriser! If I didn't have kids I'd be asleep... not like I'm doing anything but sit on my couch and remind them to get to the bus. Sweet bed is calling...
Somehow, my body became coffee intolerant. I would drink espresso all the time as a teen and then, one day, any kind or amount of coffee would just give me super severe stomach cramps. Like debilitatingly painful. So I don't drink coffee no more. And it's not the sugar or the caffeine, either; soda doesn't do this to me. Just coffee. Which sucks, because I like coffee.
It's why you keep calling the early bird people at 8pm for work stuff and giving them shit for not working late until they get the message that them calling you at 8am is just as annoying.
It's biology. When winter comes and we switch daylight saving times again, I wake up an hour earlier according to the clock while walking up at the same sun time the entire year.
This is not a shit post, it’s a real issue for many. In Denmark there is a political movement for the rights of non-early birds, called B-Samfundet (B-Society).
I'm a morning lark, but this annoys me so much! People should be able to work whenever the F they're at their most productive, not when morning larks decided everyone should be.
Luckily I work for a great company where the culture is generally "we don't care when you do your work as long as you do it", so I don't have many larks around me with that flawed mindset anymore. But I do emphasize it when I get the chance!
From the studies I've read, this seems to be the case across the entire school system, not just university. If anything, it might even affect K-12 even more, since, the younger we are, the more sleep we need.
Nevertheless, I had my most challenging class 8am my freshman year of college and yeah, can confirm—it was horrific.
In retrospect, maybe it didn't help that I was out partying til 3am every day too, but that's a different story... (Jp, I was actually very diligent about it, but still couldn't crack the formula. It was simply too early.)
For all of middle school, I would to wake up at 4:30 to catch the bus that arrived anytime between 5:30 and 6:25 to get to school at 7:15. And i wonder why my sleep is so fucked today, and why I was always too tired to focus on anything back then.
That's what I have. Then suddenly with RTO I get dirty looks for finishing my sprint tasks much faster than my coworkers so I have to pretend to be busy for hours. Fuuuuuck that bullshit.
I used to play this balance, but it's honestly just as much effort to work hard as it is to pretend to work. Instead, I work throughout my work hours, and built the trust to have flexibility when needed.
I wake up without the alarm at 0400 every day now. My alarm doesn't even go off til 0500. I only want to stay up late looking at the stars, but haven't done that in forever.
Oh I definitely get to see them in the morning, briefly. But I would prefer to not to sleep during the nights at all, and just stay up all night with my telescope. My job has just forced my circadian rhythm over to this.
Definitely a you-problem. There don't exist a dog too stupid to learn to sit on command. Them barking to wake you up continues to happen, because you allowed it to work in the first place.
If a dog barks and sees you raise.. well of course they'll continue that behaviour in the future, if it's successful.
Oh it isn't barking. It's one of them jumping off the bed, zooming through the house in a big circle and then jumping on the bed over and over again and then the other one getting woken up by that and deciding it's kisses time.
Honestly, I'm so used to it at this point that I kind of look forward to quiet time when I can just sit with the naughty little dog in my lap and read the news, check forums, etc. before work.
100%. I just don't get productive before 13:00 and my best time is 17:00 to 19:30. I come to work at 8:30, sit arround basically not accomplishinga anything before noon and then work productively a couple of hours and when I start to really get stuff done I am forced to stop (working has to stop at 18:00 here).
I'm not sure how much is really genetics vs behavior/environment. I'm a night owl too, if I can on weekends I'm up till after midnight or into the early hours. But that's because I'm playing games, sit in front of PC displays, look at my phone and so on (and still feel like shit the next day obviously, no matter how long I sleep).
But if I force myself to go to bed early a few days in a row, which I've only done a few times so far, I suddenly wake up a minute before my alarm goes off, even early in the morning.
So I'm not sure if there's actually so many night owls around, or if this is just an issue of not moving enough and having artificial light sources all around you in the evening (with plenty of screen usage). To get up early in the morning you have to go into bed early, it doesn't work otherwise. And to go to bed early you have to stick to a schedule, otherwise it's like jet lag, if I go to bed every day after midnight then obviously I'll have a difficult time falling asleep at 10 p.m. the one time I actually try to.
I could actually "feel" my body turning off but then I notice it and move which makes me fully awake again and I have to wait for myself to fall asleep again
Fuckin morning people always do this. "I know, I know, everything you're saying makes logical sense, but listen, just hear me out on this...maybe...you're just lazy"
This idea that you can change anything about yourself with enough diet, exercise, and will power totally ignores all the science saying some of this is just genetics/biology. You don't have to wonder how much of it is genetics, there are studies.
Yes, some people are just lazy, for sure. But there are some people who will work 12 hour days, no problem, they just don't want to get up early, it's hard for them. That's not lazy, that's just being different. It would be like telling someone they need to sleep from 9pm to 11am and if you can't you just need to try harder. There is nuance.
I also manage to wake up before my alarm clock with 1-30 minutes (achieved via programming), with alarm times varying from 5.30 am to 7 am depending on what needs doing that day, but it's still physically painful and mentally unpleasant. I'm basically running on autopilot until about noon. Oddly enough, if I manage to get a decent amount of sleep and wake up at something like 2 am, it's awesome, but falling asleep at 5-6 in the afternoon is slightly difficult.
I cannot remember a single instance in my whole life when I woke up in the morning and thought 'heh, fully rested and full of energy. what a wonderful morning!'. I cannot understand people able to get up earlier and do stuff like go running, before work. Hell, I shower at night to save time in the morning (and because getting into bed full of day-stuff is just icky). Going on holidays is also mildly unpleasant because hotels usually offer breakfast up to 10 am (11 in the weekend). I wish they'd offer brunch as well.
Absolutely, but most of the time humans are very very similar. For example take the whole "fast metabolism" crap, the real difference is like 100-150 kcal a day. That's one slice of toast pretty much.
If you look at the past we didn't have (much) artificial light. Humans were up during sunlight and went to bed when it got dark. With an hour or two of fucking in the middle of the night before sleeping again.
Just based on biology it makes zero sense for someone to be a pure night owl (as in being mostly awake at night). A few hours of time shift? Sure, I can see that. But our main problem is modern living, artificial lights, too much stimulation in the evening, not enough movement, ..
If you cut someone off from all artificial light I'd bet you they'd go to bed earlier on their own.
Wait, you're saying that the well studied topic of some people being night owls makes 0 sense? I mean all other anecdotal statements aside, it's been studied. They have even narrowed it to its cause.
I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that there's plenty of people who aren't genetically night owls, but still stay up late due to a modern lifestyle and then claim they are night owls.
Our modern sleeping schedules are fucked between artificial light, caffeine, stress, day rythms based on a clock and not daylight, 24/7 entertainment and stimuli, ..
So just because someone tends to stay up late doesn't mean they're a genuine night owl.
I was in the Army and getting up early is the thing. Up at 0530 every morning. It was very difficult for me and I had to put a lot of effort into discipline and routine to not die of sleep deprivation. I'm a massive night owl, 0300 every night if I could. It's definitely a component of genetics not just environment. I agree though, most people are strung out on caffeine, staring at their unfiltered computer screens at 0200 after not doing any exercise that week and wondering why they have sleep problems. Diet, light, and exercise have a massive impact on sleep.
TLDR - Permanent Night shift Manufacturing worker, Supervisor or Garbage truck driver would suit you wierdos. Afternoon shift for the less wierdos. 30% loading/15% loading also makes it a good earner.
It feels like pacing and switching gears is more important than the actual time of day that I start work. The first four hours after I wake up is reserved for creative work that requires something that I cannot muster in the evening. Once that time has passed, executive function is much more difficult to marshal and I switch to more humdrum tasks. Anything that requires a lot of willpower or cognitive function to achieve has to be done immediately after I wake. Sport or physically demanding tasks are better suited to the afternoon or evening. That way I go to bed tired and sleep well. I'm most productive and happy if I can maintain that cadence.
Dang, if I had to produce anything creative in the morning it would turn out completely uninspired. 9pm? Creativity out the wazoo. All my best projects happen in the middle of the night. 10am? It's hard to do regular problem solving for work emails. My brain is just not turned on for several hours after I wake up.
Yes this is me. Morning is just to figure out what the hell is going on, avoid anything that requires brain power until the system spins up around noon.
I think it changes over time as well. There was a time when I stayed up late and woke later. That felt like the right thing to do at the time but since getting into my 40s I tend to sleep a bit less and wake earlier. Sleep is also much more fragile, I've had bouts of insomnia and I need to be careful with caffeine and alcohol. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing I can do for executive function, I'll just stare into space all day.
Office grind sure. Most people don't work in offices. If you work in logistics, manufacturing, construction, trades of any kind really, basically anything other than an office or retail or food service, you start work at 6 or 7am.
Ok, but the meme says "functional before 8:30 am" so if it sounds like they are functional (out of bed, presumably) after 8:30. I guess I'm curious who's hassling them about not being awake at 8 am.
Honestly, time before work is wasted for me. Yes, sure, I can clean or workout, but I can't do anything leisurely and I'll just be waiting for work to start.
Some months ago, I found a video about chronotypes. I don't know how much of it can be considered scientific, but the websites have some interesting statistics about the number of people that fit in each of the categories. Apparently, only a minority is an early-bird or lion-type or morning-person. It has some associated traits that may explain why that schedule prevails (extraversion, leadership, good health), but it is unhealthy and unproductive for the rest! It's not okay.
You're not a night owl. You're just depressed and have no motivation. Humans evolved to wake up with the sun.
What do nite owls do? Drink in bars? Game all night? Cool story bro. Let me know when you earn enough money to support a family and actually do things with your life.
So in an ideal world where everyone is "fixed" and makes more than enough money to live comfortably, nobody will work at night? Nighttime businesses and services just won't exist anymore, right? No corner stores, bars, hotels, karaoke joints, fast food, no internet or power if there's an interruption, anything. Because nobody would choose to work at night, apparently.
You really didn't bother to think even half a step ahead of what's coming out of your mouth, it's hilarious!
No one gave them too much power. They just woke up early and took it before anyone else could.
But they are seen as more productive because they are on farmers' hours
Yes, but we are on scholars hours. 🧐
My wife has to be up at 4am for her job, which means I'm up that early most days too. It isn't a choice that we want to. But it is a social life killer. You invite me to arrive at your house on a Tuesday at 7 for an evening of dinner and games or something, the answer is probably going to be no.
No, they're seen as more productive because they are more productive. Being a night owl means you're drunk/high and gaming.
You'd be surprised by the number of ads you see that were created by a dude who grabbed a bottle of whiskey, did some cocaine, and locked himself in his office for the night.
Actually, based on the quality of the ads out there, maybe you wouldn't be surprised at how they come up with them...
I don't drink, I've never done drugs, and I spend 5/7 nights awake.
It's called a sleeping disorder.
Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome or Non 24/Free Running.
Maybe spend less time being judgy, and more time educating yourself?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5965391/
go sit in the corner
This is the stupidest thing I've heard today. Congratulations.
U jelly bro? U sound totes jelly
Jokes on you, when I was an early bird, years ago, I would play FF14 from 4:30 to 7:00. On weekends I would be drunk or high by noon.
Why let me tell you, I wake up early but around lunch time I pop my first joint. I work until five then do chores and game until 10-11 PM.
Often times this is true tho
Lol people who don't live in reality down voting this, keep em coming it won't change anything
And often times it isn't...
Is it? "Often times"?
Just because that's what you two have always done when you stayed up "late" doesn't mean that it applies to everyone.
So there's no such thing as overnight shifts? Everyone who stays up late are drug and alcohol binging losers?
They took the early worms
We need to liberate them
Join the rebellion
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
Long live the second mouses!
Yup, and chirping their morning call.
"PiTtEr PaTtEr LeT's GeT aTtEr!!1"
Thems fighting words
As an act of rebellion and as an early worm, I just give them the bird
I feel like there is some famous saying about that, something like ... people who wake up early get worms.
Bum worms.
A sleep scientist/professor named Matt Walker has a podcast about, you guessed it, sleep. He talks about this and how it's very unfair to people who are biologically programmed to get tired later.
He goes on to describe scientific proof of the effect this has on their sleep and the impact to their health. It's sad really, but his hope is to raise awareness and acceptance of the night owl's schedule.
This attitude is maddening. I am diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome that will turn into a non 24 hour rhythm if I let it. I've worked with sleep doctors all over the country, most recently Duke.
I'm lucky that my work lets me start at 11am, I don't get enough sleep those days but better than it could be.
Unfortunately I'm on call every other week, so forcing my clock to reset isn't an option. It takes me 6 to 10 weeks to get to societies ideal sleep schedule, and a single night of interrupted sleep to undo all that work
The weeks I'm not on call are my weeks with my daughter, who has to be at school at 730 and there's no bus for her to ride.
Either week, my schedule is fucked and I'm in a haze all the time. Helpfully anyone who finds out about it just tells me to excercise more (makes no difference, ive done a lot of testing and exclusion), stop caffeine (tried it), stop using screens of any kind after work (been there), or any other thing that they think I am doing wrong and causing the problem.
I did not expect to rant that much... I completely agree, science means nothing in the face of feelings and preconceived notions.
I feel ya. I've got the same thing. Luckily I'm still young and don't have kids so I can at least adjust my schedule consistently, but man it sucks having to get up at 6 am on the weekends. The real frustrating bit is that I could totally get up 2 hours later if only I could WFH consistently. But corporate doesn't like remote work so I have to go into the office at least 2 days a week to sit at a computer all day and program. Wonderful world we live in
holy shit I just randomly found this post a year later and spent the last few hours reading about DSPD and non-24. I've just always chalked it up to "being a night person" but reading the wikipedia pages was like a description of my life for the last 25 years.
but now that (I think) I know I have it... it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot that can be done.
Many of us just don’t move enough.
It's not only about being tired enough to fall asleep early. If I stick to a 10pm-6am sleep schedule I feel exhausted during the day, and by early afternoon I'll be falling asleep. It's like being jetlagged permanently; my body simply doesn't want to keep to that schedule. It's not just an "oh, you need to stick to the schedule long enough to adapt and get into a proper routine" situation either - it's something I struggled with for years while I was in school and university, despite getting enough sleep.
It's amazing how much better and more energetic I feel - physically and mentally - now I'm able to keep to a sleep schedule that suits me. Obviously exercising is a good thing, but early/delayed sleep phase syndrome are real things.
This. I work physically, get up just before 6 am, return tired as fuck and can easily go lights out at 8-10 pm half of the year. Doesn't help. If I wake early, I feel tired all day.
Yeah, whenever I get up early, like 5 am, I wind up feeling sleepy and groggy all day and need a nap when I get home. Yet I can get up at 7 and feel fine all day, not need to go to bed till 11 pm.
I once had to do 12.5 hr shift work.
Going from 7 am to 7:30 pm wasn't too bad compared to the nightmare that was 5 am to 5:30 pm, which meant I had to get up by no later than 4 am.
Same amount of time but the phase shift just completely messed everything up because my body just refused to comply that early in the morning.
So, what is your current sleep schedule?
Not OP but mine is 00:00 - 06:00.
I can’t fall asleep at 22:00. But my ideal schedule if I work permitted it would be 02:00 - 10:00. When I’ve kept this schedule before it’s literally night and day how better I feel.
I could go to sleep however early you like but I’d still be wrecked at 06:00.
Typically around 04:00-12:00 for me. Fortunately, I have a job that fits nicely around that, so I'm in a pretty good place overall, but when I do have to try to shift to more "normal" schedules it really wreaks havoc on my energy levels and mental clarity.
I've tried all sorts in an attempt to make a "normal" schedule work for me, like sleep monitoring, therapy, sleeping pills, and just being really over-the-top about my sleep hygiene (like not allowing screen usage for X hours before bed, no drinking or eating X hours before bed, etc). I can sort of make a "normal" schedule stick but I never feel good for it. And it takes constant work because my body naturally wants to gradually drift back towards a 4am sleep time, and I find going to sleep earlier than previous nights very difficult so once it starts slipping it usually takes an all-nighter to get it back to where I want it.
Like I said, I've generally got things pretty good right now with my job and lifestyle working around my sleep schedule. But it'd certainly be a lot easier if society didn't think I was lazy and was able to accommodate me (and other people with less "normal" sleep schedules) a little more.
Still not op but Working days i wake up at 2000 head to sleep around 10 - 12 Days off i gwt up at 6 and generally go to sleep around 2200 - 0000
wow! i'm sure the neuroscientist-sleep expert never thought of that! he should have checked with you.
Shit, man, now I want to see a paper authored by some rando PhD and JizzmasterD
If I worked a physically intensive job from 8-4 you can be sure as shit I'd be dead asleep by 10pm at the latest.
Yeah but the world needs data analysts and programmers.
They can do their job while on a green energy generating treadmill. problem solved.
Humans are terrible bioreactors. It'd be the world's worst energy source! Not green in the slightest considering how inefficient we are at converting food into treadmill energy, and how much resources are required to make our food.
Well most of us are fat, so that energy is already stored and needs to be released in some way. Being fat as it is is bad for the environment.
That's what I do, except 6 to 230. I have to always take naps after, then go to sleep again at like 11 or 12. My sleep gets super fucked lol.
I think this is a good point, even if unpoppular. Physical activity can help a lot with sleeping. Colleagues, please, notice there's "many of us", not "all of us" in the comment before you downvote.
I think part of the unpopular reception is that those of us that suffer intractable sleep issues are told this constantly by people who just don't understand it or are just out to shit on people they think are lazy.
From my parents convinced that I was useless and lazy, to co-workers who are sure I'm just too stupid to be able to sleep well, to partners I've had in the past... Always explaining to me how I'm doing something wrong, and surely if you just try to sleep you can. No. No I can't. No matter what I do, even sleep aids are only effective for a week or two at the most.
It's insulting to constantly hear people tell me that I just need to do this, or that and I'll be able to sleep. Yes, I see it says many of us, but decades of being shit on for something we can't control takes a toll.
I've struggled for 30 years to sleep 'acceptable' hours. At best, I can wake up early if I have to, and I do a lot because my child's school starts way too damn early on the weeks she's with me, and I'm on-call every other week when she's not. That means I get 3-4 hours sleep most week nights. I'm too old for this shit, but I have no choice and no options. We know that not sleeping enough can have severe effects on physical and mental health, but if you aren't on a 'normal' schedule that goes out the window.
and many of us stay up too late for no reason.
I'm a night owl and a morning person who works on a farm/cattle ranch. I had a 27 hour shift for the first time last month and I was kind of ecstatic about it. I felt proud when I got home and crashed. I also have a lot of willpower though so it's easy for me to push through work stuff with very few freaks.
I guess this is my way of saying that everyone is different.
You had a 27 HOURS SHIFT ???
sigma grindset bro
Alpha Sigma Sigma grindrset.
Those cows ain't gonna, uh, cattle themselves.
Welcome to farming. During harvest, 36 hours straight isn't uncommon. And driving back and forth lifting and lowering a combine header is far from the sort of thing that keeps one alert.
That ain’t healthy bro. You can’t catch up on sleep.
That's insane. He's literally saying "early bird gets the worm" is true and we should punish the early bird. When the obvious solution is to set your damn alarm earlier.
Christ I hate you people. You think everyone is a morning person, some people are just lazy about it. You are literally incapable of imagining that other people are not like you.
Yes I know many people are lazy, and the last thing anyone would call me is a morning person. But I am motivated to earn money and make my business succeed which means making decisions that financially benefit the company first.
Don’t get too depressed when the business falls apart regardless of your actions.
I've failed upward my whole life, no reason to stop now.
So are we, we just fucking hate it
Or figure out something that doesnt require you to be up that early?? There is science out there that there are genuinely "morning people" and "night owls", setting an alarm is a fine thing to do but it literally is in opposition to some people biology. I have been fortunate in my line of work (nursing, where shifts are usually either 7am or 7pm start times) to find a shift that starts and noon and ends at mid night, perfect for me.
Yeah exactly, there's plenty of demand and opportunities for 2nd shift or 3rd shift work out there. Just because there's no demand for 3rd shift bank tellers doesn't mean there's a problem.
Excellent use of your empathy there.
If I have to do it so should everybody mentality.
If some humans can handle lactose and others can’t. Some suffer from migraines whilst others don’t etc. you don’t think it’s possible that we also have different circadian rhythms.
Perhaps you could exercise some critical thought. Maybe go read any of the various studies on sleep and make an informed decision rather than a knee jerk reaction.
Also, positive intent. Just assume people are being truthful for the most part. Life is easier if you’re not looking to shit on people.
I run a business, not a therapy group. Assuming people are being truthful is how people walk all over you. Trust is earned.
No. Trust is lost.
If Apple can exercise positive intent as a core tenant of their business then so could yours.
Assuming everyone is out to get you is how you end up bitter.
If you believe Apple is practicing what it preaches I have a bridge to sell you. But yes, trust that is earned can be lost very easy.
I mean I did work there for 3 years but sure you know better.
as CEO? any other C-suite position? Because a publicly traded company's #1 duty is to generate profit for share holders. "touchy feely nice nice" policies go as far as they can before they start impacting profit.
Why does making things fair for everyone mean punishing the currently privileged people to you?
You can’t see that the more people cycle or the more bus lanes we have also means less cars.
Try framing it like this. Every time you see a cyclist remember that’s one less car. Or a bus could be 20-50 less cars on the road.
Buses, that makes sense. But never in the history of bike lanes has replacing a car lane with a bike lane meant as many cyclists using that lane as cars did before. Replacing car lanes with bike lanes in no way helps efficiently move people.
It's better for the environment, so I support it, but let's be real here.
Well, never is a bit of a strong word here. Copenhagen and Amsterdam have something to say about that. Now I'm not a fuckcars person, but I do see the value for those places. I am also aware that it works there because of multiple factors that do not necessarily translate well to other places, not just plopping a bike lane and hoping people won't just use it for parking their cars. Oslo, for instance does not have the same infrastructure for bikes as Copenhagen does, presumably because they get worse winters?
I'll say this, though, I was extremely surprised to see a traffic jam on the bike lane and no jam on the car lane.
Have you ever been to London? Because we have many many cycle lanes and it does help the flow of traffic.
Ever heard of Amsterdam?
I’m happy to be shown some examples to the contrary though.
Did they add a bike lane? Or did they replace a car lane?
I can 100% guarantee that any place that has removed a car lane and replaced it with a bike lane has people moving less efficiently. The math is inescapable.
I'm a privileged business owner, I'm open when I say I'm open. I'm not going to start a nigh shift just because someone wants to work one. they only way I would is if some government entity punished me and forced me to do so.
Adapting a system to suit more people when it exclusively suits you will always feel like oppression. In reality it is letting others enjoy the privilege that you already enjoy
They system already adapted by creating electricity and alarm clocks, and for the night owls, night shifts.
Night shifts are the only night owl specific concession and society as a whole of very much does not run like that. Flexible work schedules are the outlier by a wide margin.
Still glad to see it improving
What's it like being so willfully wrong?
you'll have to let me know.
That's a little long, but think we can make it fit on your headstone.
So if I set my alarm earlier than I will turn it off and wait for my emergency alarm to go off.
I should got into bed earlier: well it might work but I am just not tired then. If I go to bed at 10 or 11 pm I will just stay awake for hours in my bed.
Luckily I have wfh and don't have to attend meetings before 10 am. Sometimes I get out of bed 10 minutes before 10 and I still feel tired.
you do not exist
you are simply trolling
block and don't reply
When they all got together to decide what kind of civilization to have, all the slackers slept in. That’s why we have to work before noon.
If they had just held their fuckin meeting at a reasonable time like 6pm we'd be on top of the world order
laughs in night shift
google coal mining swing shifts. Fucking ridiculous! 2 day shifts, 1 off, 2 night, 1 off, 3 day, 1 off, 3 night, 4 off, repeat.
Coal companies still fucking over working class folks I see..
Bottom of the wrung entry level coal truck drivers start at like $30/hr so I don't feel too bad for them. A buddy of mine is an electrician at a mine and makes 50/hr days and i think nights are automatic overtime. He plans to retire at 40.
Nobody gave them anything. They just took it... while we were sleeping.
Damn if I actually did anything productive when I was night owling, I would suggest we take it back, but I'm still working my way through Baldur's Gate III
As an early person I think night owls have it better in some ways, yeah work can start early but if you want to do anything "cool" it's always late at night. Wish they'd do more daytime concerts and stuff
Oh cool! Daytime concerts in the scorching Sun!
Sounds like something a vampire would say
or a southernerOr an engineer. They are very vampire adjacent.
Frilly collars, debauchery, and a law unto themselves? I think you mean architect.
Which is worse?
One of the best shows I have seen was Sun Ra and his Arkestra opening for Sonic Youth in Central Park July 4th 1992. The show started in the afternoon.
Fuuuuck that sounds amazing
It was and I went in knowing nothing about Sun Ra. My hippie buddy was less than impressed with Sonic Youth so we dipped halfway through. SY isn't that great outside and Sun Ra was remarkable.
I've seen the Arkestra several times with Marshal Allen but I never got to see the man himself.
Ha, yeah I could see SY not translating to an outdoor performance.
The only other time I saw parts of the Arkestra was when Trey Anastasio closed the Academy and some of the band playing that night were in the Arkestra.
Sure, but I'm tired from being up too early lol.
Early bird here, am alwaya tired by 9PM, don't even wanna go out on Saturday nights any more.
I'm with you on this. Dance socials always starting at like 10PM, like could we not have done this earlier?
When I get off work, I have a good 7 hours of daylight, all the stores are still open, I can take a nap without ruining my sleep, I have plenty of time to play with my kid. I'm very cool with going to bed at 9-10 if that's the tradeoff.
If you like loud, raw techno music and darkness, you could go for a morning party at Tresor in Berlin when the tourists are gone (and only the most dedicated heads are still there). I went there recently from ~6AM till 12 noon, and had a really great time. However, I'm no early bird myself; I had been awake in the streets through the night, but didn't go to Tresor until the afterhours. I believe less than 30 people were there along with me, everybody respecting each other doing their thing and enjoying the experience. No idea if that's a good way to start your day though?
Wow, that sounds pretty awesome ngl
It was indeed. Here's is the set from that morning:
Listen to Nina Farrina @TRESOR Klubnacht / 26.08.2023 by Nina Farrina on #SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/ninafarrina/nina-farrina-tresor-klubnacht-26082023
Hah, I'm no good.
Suck on that.
Team Permanent Exhaustion. We continue to exist for reasons.
Ah, a fellow neitheriser! If I didn't have kids I'd be asleep... not like I'm doing anything but sit on my couch and remind them to get to the bus. Sweet bed is calling...
I'm the guy who handles all of the 4:59 crisis because the morning people all left at 4
Sure, but night owls have more fun.
More fun or more regrets? Both. The answer is probably both. (Spoken from a night owl forced to transition to early as fuck morning life)
How have you coped?
I haven't
"poorly."
I would guess "coffee."
Somehow, my body became coffee intolerant. I would drink espresso all the time as a teen and then, one day, any kind or amount of coffee would just give me super severe stomach cramps. Like debilitatingly painful. So I don't drink coffee no more. And it's not the sugar or the caffeine, either; soda doesn't do this to me. Just coffee. Which sucks, because I like coffee.
Monster is the way. Monster is life.
Yeah, playing video games and drinking all night sounds totally healthy!
An introverts wet dream 👌
Healthier than a night owl being forced to wake up early, yes.
Yeah I bet being a drunk is 100% healthier than not getting enough sleep 🙄
you sound fun at parties
I'm a blast. I'm just not going to convince myself it's healthy.
You are the one with personal attacks 🤷♂️. I'm sorry I have an opinion.
It's why you keep calling the early bird people at 8pm for work stuff and giving them shit for not working late until they get the message that them calling you at 8am is just as annoying.
It's biology. When winter comes and we switch daylight saving times again, I wake up an hour earlier according to the clock while walking up at the same sun time the entire year.
That's how you get fired.
cope and seethe early-birdbrain
I don't think I've ever been accused of being an early bird lol
It's the side you chose. Now have at you!
Buisness hours are 9-5 in most countries I'm familiar with
8-5 in the US normally.
Getting mad that someone calls you after 8pm? That's not even late you noob. Business hours. 8am isn't normal business hours. Lazy fatass.
Useless boomer
You've gotta kill yourself dude. For the good of all of us.
We just call that depression in my world.
Whoever downvoted is in deep denial lmao
That's the first step on getting depression controlled. To accept you have one. Next step find the why?
This is not a shit post, it’s a real issue for many. In Denmark there is a political movement for the rights of non-early birds, called B-Samfundet (B-Society).
https://www.b-society.org
Brb moving to Denmark
The come already and start moving.
I'm a morning lark, but this annoys me so much! People should be able to work whenever the F they're at their most productive, not when morning larks decided everyone should be.
Feel free to continually emphasize this with your fellow morning larks pls
Luckily I work for a great company where the culture is generally "we don't care when you do your work as long as you do it", so I don't have many larks around me with that flawed mindset anymore. But I do emphasize it when I get the chance!
Cough https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-023-01531-x Cough
From the studies I've read, this seems to be the case across the entire school system, not just university. If anything, it might even affect K-12 even more, since, the younger we are, the more sleep we need.
Nevertheless, I had my most challenging class 8am my freshman year of college and yeah, can confirm—it was horrific.
In retrospect, maybe it didn't help that I was out partying til 3am every day too, but that's a different story... (Jp, I was actually very diligent about it, but still couldn't crack the formula. It was simply too early.)
For all of middle school, I would to wake up at 4:30 to catch the bus that arrived anytime between 5:30 and 6:25 to get to school at 7:15. And i wonder why my sleep is so fucked today, and why I was always too tired to focus on anything back then.
I just find a job where they don’t care when I start as long as I get the work done
That's what I have. Then suddenly with RTO I get dirty looks for finishing my sprint tasks much faster than my coworkers so I have to pretend to be busy for hours. Fuuuuuck that bullshit.
I used to play this balance, but it's honestly just as much effort to work hard as it is to pretend to work. Instead, I work throughout my work hours, and built the trust to have flexibility when needed.
I wake up without the alarm at 0400 every day now. My alarm doesn't even go off til 0500. I only want to stay up late looking at the stars, but haven't done that in forever.
I've become what I hate.
The stars are out 4am. And 5am. If you're up anyways, take your coffee out and go have a look.
Oh I definitely get to see them in the morning, briefly. But I would prefer to not to sleep during the nights at all, and just stay up all night with my telescope. My job has just forced my circadian rhythm over to this.
Just another argument in favor of WFH.
If only. I have to get hands on.
The only problem I have with early birds is that they won't let me sleep-in late in the mornings; they make so much noise.
Now, the Sun on the other hand...
That is absolutely true... However, in my experience it's far less common than the widely accepted loud morning noises.
Look, I can't help it. The dogs wake me up at 4 every day and I can't train them out of it and once I'm awake, I can't get back to sleep.
I wish I wasn't a morning person. I really wish I could sleep in on the weekends. Alas, fate had naughty dogs in store for me.
You could try harder to train them out of it. Seek help from a dog trainer in your area.
My dogs are very stubborn and very stupid. One of them failed training. The other one can't even learn to sit.
Definitely a you-problem. There don't exist a dog too stupid to learn to sit on command. Them barking to wake you up continues to happen, because you allowed it to work in the first place.
If a dog barks and sees you raise.. well of course they'll continue that behaviour in the future, if it's successful.
Oh it isn't barking. It's one of them jumping off the bed, zooming through the house in a big circle and then jumping on the bed over and over again and then the other one getting woken up by that and deciding it's kisses time.
Then lock your door
What, and sleep without the dogs curled up next to me?!
There are two kinds of dog people. They are both in this thread.
I hear you. I'm an insufferable morning person, but my son goes harder and is almost always up before sunrise.
Honestly, I'm so used to it at this point that I kind of look forward to quiet time when I can just sit with the naughty little dog in my lap and read the news, check forums, etc. before work.
Here's rhe secret: that's why night people like the night too
Turns out people generally just don't do anything in the morning or night and whichever one you choose doesn't really make much difference
100%. I just don't get productive before 13:00 and my best time is 17:00 to 19:30. I come to work at 8:30, sit arround basically not accomplishinga anything before noon and then work productively a couple of hours and when I start to really get stuff done I am forced to stop (working has to stop at 18:00 here).
Ironically if capitalism was about efficiency we might care less about the aesthetics of working. Particularly in the ending WFH.
I'm not sure how much is really genetics vs behavior/environment. I'm a night owl too, if I can on weekends I'm up till after midnight or into the early hours. But that's because I'm playing games, sit in front of PC displays, look at my phone and so on (and still feel like shit the next day obviously, no matter how long I sleep).
But if I force myself to go to bed early a few days in a row, which I've only done a few times so far, I suddenly wake up a minute before my alarm goes off, even early in the morning.
So I'm not sure if there's actually so many night owls around, or if this is just an issue of not moving enough and having artificial light sources all around you in the evening (with plenty of screen usage). To get up early in the morning you have to go into bed early, it doesn't work otherwise. And to go to bed early you have to stick to a schedule, otherwise it's like jet lag, if I go to bed every day after midnight then obviously I'll have a difficult time falling asleep at 10 p.m. the one time I actually try to.
the biology of sleep is more complicated than "just go to bed earlier."
If I go to sleep early, I just lie there until it's my usual sleep time. My body is very stubborn about it.
Even if I'm exhausted it works that way without sleep aids.
I could actually "feel" my body turning off but then I notice it and move which makes me fully awake again and I have to wait for myself to fall asleep again
Fuckin morning people always do this. "I know, I know, everything you're saying makes logical sense, but listen, just hear me out on this...maybe...you're just lazy"
This idea that you can change anything about yourself with enough diet, exercise, and will power totally ignores all the science saying some of this is just genetics/biology. You don't have to wonder how much of it is genetics, there are studies.
Yes, some people are just lazy, for sure. But there are some people who will work 12 hour days, no problem, they just don't want to get up early, it's hard for them. That's not lazy, that's just being different. It would be like telling someone they need to sleep from 9pm to 11am and if you can't you just need to try harder. There is nuance.
I also manage to wake up before my alarm clock with 1-30 minutes (achieved via programming), with alarm times varying from 5.30 am to 7 am depending on what needs doing that day, but it's still physically painful and mentally unpleasant. I'm basically running on autopilot until about noon. Oddly enough, if I manage to get a decent amount of sleep and wake up at something like 2 am, it's awesome, but falling asleep at 5-6 in the afternoon is slightly difficult.
I cannot remember a single instance in my whole life when I woke up in the morning and thought 'heh, fully rested and full of energy. what a wonderful morning!'. I cannot understand people able to get up earlier and do stuff like go running, before work. Hell, I shower at night to save time in the morning (and because getting into bed full of day-stuff is just icky). Going on holidays is also mildly unpleasant because hotels usually offer breakfast up to 10 am (11 in the weekend). I wish they'd offer brunch as well.
Absolutely, but most of the time humans are very very similar. For example take the whole "fast metabolism" crap, the real difference is like 100-150 kcal a day. That's one slice of toast pretty much.
If you look at the past we didn't have (much) artificial light. Humans were up during sunlight and went to bed when it got dark. With an hour or two of fucking in the middle of the night before sleeping again.
Just based on biology it makes zero sense for someone to be a pure night owl (as in being mostly awake at night). A few hours of time shift? Sure, I can see that. But our main problem is modern living, artificial lights, too much stimulation in the evening, not enough movement, ..
If you cut someone off from all artificial light I'd bet you they'd go to bed earlier on their own.
Wait, you're saying that the well studied topic of some people being night owls makes 0 sense? I mean all other anecdotal statements aside, it's been studied. They have even narrowed it to its cause.
https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/19066-study-identifies-night-owl-gene-variant/
I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that there's plenty of people who aren't genetically night owls, but still stay up late due to a modern lifestyle and then claim they are night owls.
Our modern sleeping schedules are fucked between artificial light, caffeine, stress, day rythms based on a clock and not daylight, 24/7 entertainment and stimuli, ..
So just because someone tends to stay up late doesn't mean they're a genuine night owl.
I was in the Army and getting up early is the thing. Up at 0530 every morning. It was very difficult for me and I had to put a lot of effort into discipline and routine to not die of sleep deprivation. I'm a massive night owl, 0300 every night if I could. It's definitely a component of genetics not just environment. I agree though, most people are strung out on caffeine, staring at their unfiltered computer screens at 0200 after not doing any exercise that week and wondering why they have sleep problems. Diet, light, and exercise have a massive impact on sleep.
On the bright side, I both prefer and get paid more to take the later shift at work.
It's because they got all the worms
This just in: early birds have worms
But what about them early worms
Got them too
Why not both? Get up at 6am, go to bed at 1am.
Thats called depression
Or being under 35.
Thats called depression
Or... this person is just a gamer and plays until it's way too late at night because they work during the day
Thats called depression
TLDR - Permanent Night shift Manufacturing worker, Supervisor or Garbage truck driver would suit you wierdos. Afternoon shift for the less wierdos. 30% loading/15% loading also makes it a good earner.
Do they collect garbage in the middle of the night in your country? In Sweden, they are usually driving around in the early morning.
A good amount of garbage collection at commercial businesses happens during the night.
Gotta wake up at 2am to be ready.
Garbage collection here starts at 9 and ends at 4.
It's a good earner but terrible for your career. You want face time with the bosses, you gotta be there at 9am.
It feels like pacing and switching gears is more important than the actual time of day that I start work. The first four hours after I wake up is reserved for creative work that requires something that I cannot muster in the evening. Once that time has passed, executive function is much more difficult to marshal and I switch to more humdrum tasks. Anything that requires a lot of willpower or cognitive function to achieve has to be done immediately after I wake. Sport or physically demanding tasks are better suited to the afternoon or evening. That way I go to bed tired and sleep well. I'm most productive and happy if I can maintain that cadence.
Dang, if I had to produce anything creative in the morning it would turn out completely uninspired. 9pm? Creativity out the wazoo. All my best projects happen in the middle of the night. 10am? It's hard to do regular problem solving for work emails. My brain is just not turned on for several hours after I wake up.
Yes this is me. Morning is just to figure out what the hell is going on, avoid anything that requires brain power until the system spins up around noon.
I think it changes over time as well. There was a time when I stayed up late and woke later. That felt like the right thing to do at the time but since getting into my 40s I tend to sleep a bit less and wake earlier. Sleep is also much more fragile, I've had bouts of insomnia and I need to be careful with caffeine and alcohol. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing I can do for executive function, I'll just stare into space all day.
What are they talking about? Is 9-5 not the standard office grind? It's not even polite to phone someone before 9 am.
Office grind sure. Most people don't work in offices. If you work in logistics, manufacturing, construction, trades of any kind really, basically anything other than an office or retail or food service, you start work at 6 or 7am.
Office people always forget that people who don't work in offices exist
I only start getting productive after 13h
Do u think I can be up and ready for work/school in half an hour?
Yeah?
Takes me half an hour just to get out of bed.
You ever work night shift? Do that for a year or so. You'll see how much more difficult everything is, and how exhausted you are all the time.
Ok, but the meme says "functional before 8:30 am" so if it sounds like they are functional (out of bed, presumably) after 8:30. I guess I'm curious who's hassling them about not being awake at 8 am.
In Asia the standard office hours are 10 to 6
Honestly, time before work is wasted for me. Yes, sure, I can clean or workout, but I can't do anything leisurely and I'll just be waiting for work to start.
One could say... The early bird caught the worm.
The second mouse gets the cheese, though, and they call it the rat race..
fuck him up Gary!
Some months ago, I found a video about chronotypes. I don't know how much of it can be considered scientific, but the websites have some interesting statistics about the number of people that fit in each of the categories. Apparently, only a minority is an early-bird or lion-type or morning-person. It has some associated traits that may explain why that schedule prevails (extraversion, leadership, good health), but it is unhealthy and unproductive for the rest! It's not okay.
Why is this a shitpost its completely true . People ahould start respecting others opinion
Hey, I didn't invent sunlight
I get sleepy when the sun is out
It’s cause the sun is out at 8:30 am and not 8:30 pm.
Sun sets at 10 pm here in summer, so nope.
I meant on average. It makes more sense to do things when it’s lit outside than when it’s dark.
I work in an office. What is this sun you speak of?
My sleep schedule is not based on the sun, probably on some random celestial body which moves in very chaotic ways
That's no moon...
We have lightbulbs at work now
I get sleepy when the sun comes out
You're not a night owl. You're just depressed and have no motivation. Humans evolved to wake up with the sun.
What do nite owls do? Drink in bars? Game all night? Cool story bro. Let me know when you earn enough money to support a family and actually do things with your life.
Obviously you've never heard of a night shift
The person who made the tweet is in their early 20s. They're not on night shift work.
Strange I've worked nights yet I'm 26, my life is a lie
Why do I need to support a family if I dont want, like or have kids?
Enjoy!
Do you need a cookie?
Oatmeal raisin please!
I rather enjoy life than support a family.
Enjoy!
Lol. Oh no sorry please tell me again how i just go out drinking and gaming while at work from 2100 -0900...
That's your choice. Not the rest of the world's problem that you chose to work nights and think that somehow you're a victim.
So in an ideal world where everyone is "fixed" and makes more than enough money to live comfortably, nobody will work at night? Nighttime businesses and services just won't exist anymore, right? No corner stores, bars, hotels, karaoke joints, fast food, no internet or power if there's an interruption, anything. Because nobody would choose to work at night, apparently.
You really didn't bother to think even half a step ahead of what's coming out of your mouth, it's hilarious!
Ok boomer
Enjoy never seeing the sun and your cool friends!