Spyke
lemmy.world

The duck can't actually say anything because his sound drivers randomly stopped working.

269
__devreply
lemmy.world

In recent memory I've had both a microphone driver bug in Linux and one in macOS with specific hardware. Only one of them was fixed with an update.

17

My experience with Apple issue reporting is that you're speaking into a void.

10
mutter9355reply
discuss.tchncs.de

Seriously, pipewire is so much better than pulse. I remember having lots of sound issues on my laptop. Sound randomly becoming extremely distorted until I stopped and started playback, microphone volume resetting to 100% earraping everyone in discord calls, random pops and cracks... All of this was fixed by switching to pipewire

6
lemmy.world

That would be really annoying (when I would use sound)

On the other hand, the Nvidia card I use refuses to work via the external monitor (USB-C) at power on when plugged in. Power on, then plug in, then I have screen... weird.

  • Apple: We support apple hardware
  • Microsoft: We support hardware from this list
  • Linux: You want support, write it yourself.
  • Nvidia: You want support, use windows
  • Laptop developers: You want performance, oh, you're a gamer, here have a Nvidia card.

You might ask, why a laptop: power consumption for the moments I don't need power. I don't want QHD on 17", 24" is better for my aging eyes so external monitor is a requirement. (previous one had 4K on 15", cheapest screen option to buy)

9
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

Who out there using computers without sound?

I bet you say it was your own choice as well to miss a standard feature.

"Why yes, I do use a computer without a monitor, I have memorised everything! No don't look behind the curtain at the shattered monitor, it was my own choice!"

-7

Literally anyone who wants to use a laptop in public withough annoying everyone around them.

5

Who out there using computers without sound?

I use my computers without sound, until I watch a vid (I use headphones for that). I hate the constant beeps for attention. Same with tablets, no sound, not even when playing a game. The only device that is allowed to make a sound is the phone. (and then very limited)

2

I literally never got sound working on Ubuntu. MSI motherboard, Phenom II quad at the time.

4
feddit.cl

Sure, if you go with that attitude PulseAudio.

Uninstalled it for ALSA on every (every) machine I've touched that has to do audio, and haven't had issues since 2015.

3
lemmy.world

I'm really triggered by the idea that Linux makes running old software easy. The bane of my existence is finding an application that depends on libButts.5.1, but my distro ships with libButts.5.3, which isn't backward compatible for some reason, and trying to install libButts.5.1 bricks the desktop environment for some reason.

123
eumesmoreply
lemmings.world

I just searched for that lib, in an attempt to help you with the supposed problem. I won't deny, you got me there.

38
lemm.ee

And this is what is actually good about Linux. :)

11
Kaynreply
dormi.zone

No time for actual facts, only circlejerking /s

22
Nefyedardureply
kbin.social

Appimage, Snap, Flatpak, Docker, Podman, Distrobox, Toolbox...

22
lemmy.world

All potentially fantastic ideas had the original author bothered to package in any of those formats. Much more common is the only release is a .deb built for an ancient version of Ubuntu, leading to my above frustrstions.

11
dustyDatareply
lemmy.world
  1. Stop bothering with dead software.
  2. You can repackage old FOSS source code into any of those containers and install and use it that way. Nothing is stopping you, the tools are free and widely documented. You don't need to own the FOSS repository to repackage it, and actually a huge chunk of containers are packaged by people not affiliated with the development project of the software.
4

I think we will become better served over time by using systems like the AUR or nix as it seems quite straightforward to make new software available with them. Both of those systems define the method a package should be built with, so even if the maintainer is long gone and the package hasn't been updated in a long time it will probably still be possible to build, or any changes needed to build it can be easily shared to save other people troubleshooting effort.

The drawbacks are: nix doesn't seem to have an elegant way to define that users or groups should be created (e.g. at least one package providing locate requires that) (though it does have at least one non-elegant way and one manual but less non-elegant way), and a package usable with pacman has lacked a definition of what version of every dependency it requires in at least one case where it would have been useful to me (even though that is possible apparently), so if anything made a backwards-incompatible change you may not be able to use the package manager alone to troubleshoot.

1

I've had poor luck with AppImage. Because of how it works, it has failed in the exact thing it was supposed to do, just werk everywhere. But I've heard it generally works well.

1
dustyDatareply
lemmy.world

We only use software that has existed before the past decade in this household!

4

I wonder if someone is packaging that stuff for the new solutions

0
Nefyedardureply
kbin.social

I mean not really, Appimage has been around since 2004, flatpak/docker for about a decade now. But at any rate I don't see your point, the person I replied to said it's hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

3
Kusimulkkureply
lemm.ee

I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

it’s hard to run old applications on Linux

What does their age have to do with anything

I'm not sure if you're taking the piss but since those solutions are so recent, you won't find old applications packaged with those solutions.

0
Nefyedardureply
kbin.social

They don't need to be packaged at the time of creation anyway, they can be packaged right now. Distrobox makes this easy, like let's say you need an application that only works on Ubuntu 18.04. It's two commands:

distrobox create --image ubuntu:18.04 ubuntu

distrobox enter ubuntu -- sudo apt-get install _package_

Then to export the package to your desktop you can even do

distrobox enter ubuntu -- distrobox export --app _application_

Boom, you have an Ubuntu 18.04 application on an OS of your choosing. You can theoretically do this with any distro, distrobox can use any OCI images from docker-hub, quay.io, or any registry of your choice.

5

I wouldn't exactly call that easy, but compared to how it used to be, fair enough.

2

Most of the people who post these kinds of memes unironically, aren’t actual nix users

5

Someone probably could. But not me. I am not a software developer, and being one should not be a prerequisite to using an OS, despite what the memes in this very group might lead one to believe.

10

that's when you find out that the updated build environment is incompatible with the older libraries the project expected.

usually the only escape is docker, or containerization to be correct, just give the old app and old environment.

this wastes a lot of space though

8

Potentially but it's not always that simple. I've literally encountered this exact scenario. OldeShit needs libY 1.9 but pacman is on 2.2. Can't downgrade because libY uses 10 different libs collectively in the depends tree that explicitly need 2.0 or higher. So you take a look at libY and OldeShit builds only to realise several functions that libY provide have been reworked or removed, making it incompatible with OldeShit. As such OldeShit doesn't build.

As an aside, this is quite literally why Microsoft has several different VC Redistributables. To avoid this issue. But this also creates another issue. Lol.

6
vengreply
lemmy.world

Anyone who's feeling Linux savvy, try getting EAX working with some X-Fi hardware. Best of luck ;)

2

I mean to be fair, it's likely you'd spend most of your time reverse engineering creative's drivers with something like ghidra, which doesn't need Linux 😄

3
lemmy.dbzer0.com

The last character: I can make you spend an entire day trying to install some software or configuring something specific

55
feddit.de

Oh yeah, I never had to do this on windows!

Wait! That's not correct.

7
feddit.de

I know what you mean and Linux can be the operating system with less issues as well. E.g. I never had printer issues with my system but have to troubleshoot others' printers regularly.

If you only use Linux for browsing and light office work you probably never encounter problems. Even if you play games via steam and Proton there probably will never be something.

The same is true for Windows. If you only use it for a small subset of tasks (browsing, light office work or playing recent games) you will rarely encounter problems.

But if you try to do so without a Microsoft account or if you don't want a bloated start menu, it starts to get tricky.

And don't get me started on playing old games or getting some programming dependencies running. This can be hell.

I know the flaws of windows (I've used it up until last year and still have to use it at work) and I also know the limitations of Linux. They are both not perfect, but Linux is free and Windows becomes more and more shit (as you've said). And this is where I don't understand all the people saying, that windows is easier. It really isn't anymore. It was a few years ago though.

3
sh.itjust.works

I imagine that most people think Windows is easier because the majority of people grew up using Windows machines in schools, workplaces, etc. I think it could have to do with the sense of familiarity there.

The other problem I think people have with Linux is that the fact that different distros confuses them. Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people's first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.

3

Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.

Or it's the fact the community is so toxic?

Every computer, doesn't matter brand or hardware, never works 100% out of the box on Linux. Doesn't matter which distro.

You ask online, and people scream at you to run terminal commands or go back to Windows.

You run a terminal command that breaks your system, and people blame you for running random terminal commands..

You go back to Windows, and people say "Linux is so friendly, you don't even have to touch the terminal anymore if you really don't want to!"

Rinse and repeat.

1
lemmy.world

A key distinction is how many of those problems are specifically because of Windows. Is a Windows feature creating the problem?

The concept scares me quite a bit actually, having to fight my OS in addition to entire else I'm always trying to figure out.

1
nyakojirureply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Yeah I won’t say windows is better, I know Linux is superior. But windows is a mess with a reason, it works everywhere . But It can’t handle heavy operations , it’s bloated af … etc ir sucks for enterprise solutions. But for a personal computer or server simple apps, people don’t want to wait or struggle .

2

Yeah, Linux has a lot of good uses, it's just not for everyone nor the average person. There's no way the people who struggle with computer troubles could use Linux.

I think that's sometimes forgotten in all the memes. The people who could actually use Linux are a fairly small subset of all Windows users.

0
Polarreply
lemmy.ca

99.9% of Windows software runs after you run the .exe

Which programs require so much troubleshooting for you?

0

I just spent 30+ minutes troubleshooting an MS office installer today that would just shut off after the splash screen, on a friend's brand new laptop... But then again, I spent two hours trying to get my old Brother network scanner/printer on Manjaro a few weeks ago.

1

I run Ubuntu at work where we have an Epson printer. My print jobs are mysteriously canceled ~50% of the time, and wouldn't work at all throughout Ubuntu 20.10 and only started intermittently working with 22.10. (They were mysteriously quite reliable with 18.10.) Looking around on the Ubuntu forums, I was hardly alone. None of the posted fixes worked for my case, and seemed unreliable for others as well. A cursory Internet search shows me that printing problems are endemic to Linux and have been for a long time.

We don't have a Windows machine to compare, but the Mac on the front desk prints 100% of the time without fail barring paper jam or something else that is the fault of the printer.

2
demonquarkreply
lemmy.world

Tbf, every moderately old software product is a collection of built-up stupidity.

22
lemm.ee

Linux: I can't install steam without breaking my system

38
dhtseanyreply
lemmy.ml

Unpopular opinion: flatpaks enable lazy developers to keep old versions of required Python dependencies working longer.

18

I doubt bundling things together in some sort of pack would avoid every problem with python versions I could have. That doesn't prevent a given python version from being marked as "end-of-life" and no longer receiving security patches.

Most software is produced and maintained for use solely by the company that produced it, and probably by people who are not experts in using python, so hiding the complexity that python versions and dependency versions are coupled seems like a bad idea, especially when one wants to limit the number of versions of the same software that is installed (and therefore re-use executable files to save disk and CPU usage and avoid accidentally using the wrong version of a program).

I have not interacted with flatpak in a professional environment, so I doubt I have been directly harmed by it. However, reducing the importance of quickly upgrading software after new versions are released is probably harmful overall: performing an upgrade will usually make development easier (so making it harder for me to pitch to managers that an upgrade should be done is harmful to my morale), and incentivizing having multiple versions of the same program accessible on the same system makes surprising problems more likely.

3

I think it's fine as long as they aren't terrible insecure. But if they're using an old runtime, people will bother them about it.

1

Meanwhile everyone can install Steam on Windows/Mac without issue.

Sounds like Linux is great..

-2

I think they're talking about that time PopOS messed up Steam packaging and it was broken and it just so happens Linus (the tech tip guy) was trying to install it then and he ended up running a command to rememedy the situation that totally broke his shit. It was pretty funny

5
eee
lemm.ee

Linux: "my users spend half their time troubleshooting"

36
torpakreply
discuss.tchncs.de

At least most problems under Linux have solutions and if you are really desperate you have the option to fix it yourself in the source or pay someone to do it. Under windows, if microsoft doesn't care about your problem, you either find a workaround or live with it.

3
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

Because of the ginormous community, every problem has a solution in Windows.

If it isn't a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

Windows has a hell of a lot more support than any Linux distribution does.

-2
Nefyedardureply
kbin.social

If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

That's not how this works. If it's not a Microsoft-sancioned solution, it literally cannot be fixed no matter how much effort you put in. You need an API to work with Windows. If Microsoft does not provide you with an API, you can't do it. And even if you find a way to hack together something, you have zero guarantee an update won't just come along and fuck it. Linux distros are open source, you can change quite literally any thing about them. That is what that person was talking about.

4

the thing is, microsoft does provide stable, well-documented and backwards-compatible apis for just about anything imaginable, and even if that's not enough, you can try interacting with the kernel directly

1
sh.itjust.works

I can't say I share this experience as I spend a lot more than half my time using Linux watching documentaries on youtube in a web browser. If you are obsessed with personalization I could see this happening, but I happen to prefer using default (as in "possible to consistently re-apply") settings on most things.

Regardless, troubleshooting makes you better at resolving trouble that you didn't bring about on your own, and life is defined by unexpected troubles. It is better to be antifragile than happy!

5
eeereply
lemm.ee

I guess you're lucky (or much more tech-savvy than me). I tried to switch to linux once many years ago (pre-COVID, which is like ancient times now). It was horrible. Oh, I now need to learn about file systems and NTFS and ext3/4(?) - i guess i’ll try Linux on a separate, old hard drive. Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download. Great, people on forums are helpful but they’re asking me a bunch of gibberish. Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line, but then the GUI doesn’t work occasionally and now I have to figure out if it’s the GUI that broke or something else. And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

10
Ooopsreply
kbin.social

Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download.

Unlike in Windows where you never need to download drivers. As executable binaries you have no chance of checking. Sometimes from very questionable sources. And actually you can be happy if it's only a driver. Installing random 3rd party tools just to get basic functionality is a thing.

people on forums are helpful

Which also happens for Windows. But rarely. And if they really try... then there are still 10 different answers to a single problem and you have to test which one works for your specific version (no, chosing the most recent one sounds logical but is rarely the answer).

Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line

Which in what way is worse then editing random obscure values in the registry? Because it's a window you type in. And in the worst case even the Windows help starts with poweshell nowadays, which is exactly the same.

And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

That's a solveable problem. Unlike in Windows where they put file permissions on top a file system not having them in a weird unintutive way. And don't ever try to change the wrong permission as an administrator as that's simply not allowed. After all you don't own your Windows PC, MS just gratiously allows you to use it.

So, you see... it's all a matter of perspective.

9

10 different answers

No there’s only ever one answer and it’s “have you tried ‘sfc /scannow’?” But it never works, even if it finds an alleged problem.

9
Nefyedardureply
kbin.social

Trying to use proprietary drivers and NTFS on Linux is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. People work hard to make it work and maybe it does with a little effort but the proprietary model and Linux distros just don't mesh well together. If you make it a point to purchase hardware that has open source drivers and use open source software (and as a consumer, you probably should anyway), everything does just work. Obviously this may not suit your use case and Linux may just not be for you.

3

NTFS is okay if you're mounting a drive that you share with a Windows machine but don't actually install Linux to an NTFS partition please. Most of the "beginner friendly" distros I don't think even let you.

6

There's no way that would work, would it? I can't imagine installing linux to an NTFS volume and it actually functioning.

1

If I was in your situation, I would try installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux on a computer where you don't care if the entire disk gets wiped occasionally, using a flash drive you also don't care about getting wiped occasionally. They probably have sufficiently comprehensive installers and installation instructions for you to succeed in using one of them, and if you don't care about the content of the disks you use you'll be more willing to experiment with the installation process (even though it's unlikely your computer will work worse due to trying to install a Linux distribution). If you use a computer that has become slower and less usable than you'd like you will probably be pleasantly surprised by the results!

Also, you can back up your product keys and prepare a Microsoft Windows installation disk if being able to go back to Windows 10 makes you more comfortable with experimenting.

Overall, Linux enhanced my ability to to get productive work done, and also the opportunity to experiment and learn more about how to use computers to solve problems. I think learning how to use a GNU operating system is a good long term investment, though if you still need to keep around at least one computer that runs Microsoft Windows to protect your income I won't disparage you.

1
gizmonicusreply
sh.itjust.works

The key to customization is not going out of bounds. If you customize, do it the way it was intended to be customized, not by finding weird, hacky shit that works like some kind of digital Rube Goldberg machine. If you find yourself writing convoluted bash scripts, and dredging up plugins on GitHub with the last commit from 2012, you're on a crash course with destiny.

4

Hey, how'd you see what I've done to my Android phone?

Cause this exactly describes what I do to it. Then I get weird conflicts. Lol. I do it to myself.

3

I was primarily noting that I usually don't engage in unnecessary and unproductive customization, as there will always be some way you could meet your desires a little better, but unless you're creating and documenting an automated system like https://larbs.xyz/ or even just "copy this file to ~/.profile" your customizations will eventually be lost when your system fails, leaving you with new reason to spend more time customizing.

As the video I linked said: if computers are as powerful as the universe and the universe was created in billions of years, you may only be done customizing billions of years from now (and at that point you will have had even more billions of years to come up with new ways you want to improve your customization).

If I'm spending time on something that won't result in an update to a git repository, or a Lemmy comment, or even speaking to someone in person or me acquiring more property, I consider it more frivolous than not.

1
torpakreply
discuss.tchncs.de

I have to use windows at work. I have to spend a lot more time trouble shooting there than on my bleeding edge rolling release linux at home.

4

That is because you perform more work on your work computer instead of browsing lemmy all day.

4

That's categorically untrue. As long as you stick with well supported, mainstream distributions, most things just work. Given the vast diversity of window managers, init systems, boot loaders, desktop environments, package managers, graphical interface systems, audio systems, and so on... it's surprising how well things do just generally work in most cases.

14

Gee, I must have imagined writing a novel on a laptop running Linux, with nothing giving any trouble at all.

I guess my imagination is even better than I thought!

Sadly,, that means that the second novel I'm halfway through must be imaginary too. A shame to have imagined that much imagining.

Seriously, that's just this laptop, it doesn't count the ones on desktop before that, also on Linux.

7

I've had hard time troubleshooting on Windows because everything is obfuscated behind so many layers. And there's just things you can't feasibly do. But it does seem to work well most of the time.

3
lemmy.world

I think we should stop trying to figure out what operating system is superior, and just focus on shitting on Microsoft windows.

34
sh.itjust.works

I think both macOS and Android are inherently superior to anything I've ever used that was created by Microsoft.

Multiple versions of macOS are UNIX® Certified Products according to the institution that publishes the POSIX standards: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3688.htm https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3673.htm

"Android is a mobile operating system based on a modified version of the Linux kernel" so it is surely easier to liberate yourself by using Android than by using Microsoft Windows.

5
hanslreply
lemmy.world

Windows NT had a lot of UNIX code in it and was fully POSIX compatible. But then came the Win32 code, and XP became what it is.

6

And Windows NT was the result of the failed joint venture with IBM while developing OS/2. While IBM wanted stability and preferred to let the user wait at power up until the IS was sure everything checked out, MS wanted fast user satisfaction and if things fail, just let the user reboot.

I prefer to get a cup of coffee when the computer boot up at the start of the day, but no, 'the market' preferred a quick start and regular coffee breaks during the day. I'd almost suspect MS from having stocks in the coffee industry.

Which OS is better? The one that meets the user's needs. I'm glad there is choice, my choice isn't everybody's choice. The Windows desktop at work comes with a helpdesk, which works fine for me. (when I need them, but I'll deny any knowledge of Windows ;) )

2
lemm.ee

When I bought my first (and only) smartphone, I figured that since it was using this partially open source linux-based OS, I'd be able to customise it, get rid of crapware, and remove google's hooks from it. But I was wrong. I wasn't able to do any of those things. Because of that, I don't have a particularly favourable view towards Android.

1

Actual, vanilla AOSP is a pretty good system. But as soon as a manufacturer takes it and puts their own stuff on top, things get annoying.

1
lemm.ee

By shitting on Windows you're saying anything that isn't Windows is superior. Now you're just being a hypocrite.

4
sh.itjust.works

How is it hypocritical to say that things that aren't Microsoft Windows are better than Microsoft Windows?

-1
lemm.ee

Crow doesn't want us to classify which operating systems are superior, yet, believes that every operating system that isn't Windows is superior.

3

which are

That's the error. The word "are" isn't even a part of their comment. They don't want people finding the one, singular, that is above the rest. They proposed flipping the competition. Finding the worst. That leaves no top-most judgement for the rest, no hypocrisy with that.

4

I interpreted their comment as "There are at least two tiers of things: things that are Microsoft Windows and those that aren't, and the tier that includes Microsoft Windows is not the most superior tier". I don't think that's hypocritical.

2
gatalocareply
lemmy.world

Windows users? I mean the reason why Linux users proclaim the superiority of Linux is because Windows users always say that they want to leave Windows but XYZ doesn't work or Linux, making Linux look like it's feature poor which isn't the case.

4
Kaynreply
dormi.zone

They aren't saying that Linux is feature poor. They're just saying that Linux doesn't fit their use case.

Big difference.

6
spikespazreply
programming.dev

But they continue to complain instead of learn to adapt. I have a friend who needs help every week and I told him I am charging for windows help from here on because this is stupid.

2

I've heard more Linux users complain about Windows than Windows users, and there are plenty more of em.

Usually also using arguments that have either aren't relevant anymore, or are just plainly false like the one in the post.

0
TAGreply
lemmy.world

Linux, as an OS, is much more feature rich. What it lacks is applications. There are many applications out there that are only available for Windows or OSX and there is no Linux app to do the same thing (or the Linux app is very far behind in quality). The inverse (a Linux only app) is rarely true, except for applications that are niche or heavily rely on an OS feature that does not have a close equivalent on Windows.

Plus, just about every piece of (consumer) hardware that can be connected to a computer has a Windows driver.

3

And another thing you can add to that fact is that Windows users gets to enjoy the best of the Linux apps. VLC, Gimp, Audacity, OBS, etc. That's a big reason why Windows is even usable for an average user.

Around half my applications on Windows were FOSS even before I moved to Linux and I used them for a long time. The proprietary apps I did use, I don't really miss. I also doubt anybody actually likes having to install drivers on Windows or browse the web for apps. It's just extra bullshit.

3
lemmy.ca

I don't have a printer.

I don't like open ports.

Decides to remove CUPS.

"apt list -i *cups*"

There are like 7 CUPS packages and dependencies.

for each package "apt remove cups --simulate"

Get to package 6 and decide 'Ok. No major issues, looks fine.'

For the first 6 packages "sudo apt remove CUPS"

This is easy and painless!

On 7th ...

Removing cups-pk or some shit.... Removing mint-common... Removing cinnamon-desktop...

Oh, fuck

33
nmhforlifereply
lemmy.world

I feel like I broke my network because I removed python once.

8
lemmy.ca

When I was new to Linux I broke EVERYTHING.

Often.

The more you break, the more you learn.

Nobody tells me I can't modify this file.

Eg. I once accidentally chmodded the entire root directory. (Recursion incident)

Linux does not like when the root fs permissions are ALL changed.

I had no internet at the time. And no idea what timeshift was.

Thankfully, I had a library card.

Learned a lot about permissions that month.

(I enjoy doing things the hard way)

22
Chewyreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Did you manage to get your system working again? Iirc I did the same on Arch a few years ago and it wasn't too bad to restore the system after looking at the permissions on a fresh install (maybe a container or vm, idr).

2
lemmy.ca

I tried. It was so long ago now I can't even remember. It was xubuntu, though.

But, I'm pretty sure I had to take it down to the local shop and get a copy of the iso since I didn't have a fresh install to compare. (This wasn't the only time I absolutely borked my machine)

Nowadays, I backup everything. I image the partitions. I create a separate partition for home. And I know what to never touch.

1

Agreed, backups are important. Before switching to NixOS (or image based OS like Fedora Silverblue) I made use of automatic btrfs snapshots. This makes these kinds of screw-ups simple to revert.

I'd like to say an overly optimistic chmod -R didn't happen again but my old Nextcloud instance would like a word.

Thanks for reminding to do my backups again. I've recently build a server with enough storage so I'll probably setup restic or borg. That means I can bring my external backup HDD over to my family as an offline/offsite backup.

2

I did something very similar while I was drunkenly troubleshooting issues on an old laptop and I gave up as soon as I saw the desktop going I just closed the lid and reformatted the next day

2
257mreply

There is a difference between steady and small.

24
markonreply
lemmy.world

Actually.... The Steam Deck runs on Valve's custom Arch Linux. To say there is no steady userbase is simply not true.

11
Nobsireply
feddit.de

Touché. I would like to counter that with "Not a desktop though" and end my turn with "wine required to use company software"

9
TeddEreply
lemmy.world

Between Microsoft's open source Vulcan enhancements and Valve's everything else enhancements both being contributed upstream, "Wine required" doesn't have quite the same punch it used to.

Pours myself a shot for having to thank Microsoft

4
lemmy.world

that's also not true because it could be used as a desktop all the same

1
Nobsireply
feddit.de

It is very true. Nobody buys a steamdeck to be a desktop replacement. Nobody does work on a steamdeck. It might theoretically work, but most steamdeck owners game on it and thats it.

7
lemm.ee

I dont think you're right about that. Browse through the steam deck subreddit and community here and you'll see plenty of posts of people using the steam deck for work and productivity as well as gaming. I myself use it both as a console and as a laptop more or less. Its a very nice portable Linux desktop

3
Zoolanderreply
lemmy.world

What a dishonest argument. They're using a curated overlay for Linux that mostly hides the Linux part from them completely. The fact that there's a "Desktop Mode" doesn't change the fact that 99% of Steam Deck users aren't in Desktop mode.

Edit: If someone bought a smart appliance with a screen whose software was Linux on the backend, we wouldn’t count people who bought that appliance (a refrigerator, for example) as “Linux users”. The Steam Deck is the same way for 95% of its users.

4
Doxinreply
yiffit.net

They’re using a curated overlay for Linux

This is commonly known as a "distro". SteamOS is just particularly good at being user friendly for it's fairly narrow use-case.

7
Zoolanderreply
lemmy.world

SteamOS is the distro. Big Picture/Steam Deck is an overlay for the Steam application and what the majority of Steam Deck users are using and experiencing. They're not using it for day to day applications and browsing the internet.

2
Doxinreply
yiffit.net

I'd probably call Big Picture the Desktop environment in this case. Yes it's a simplified linux experience, but it's not not linux.

0
Zoolanderreply
lemmy.world

The point is that you could swap what OS it is in the background and it wouldn’t make a difference that it’s Linux. The Steam Deck could be running Windows with Big Picture on top of it and no one would be the wiser. It’s misleading to say that Steam Deck users are Linux users if they don’t even use any of the Linux environment.

1

But that's true for anything. you could swap out the OS under gnome and most users wouldn't notice either.

0
lemmy.world

Yeah, you can run old app on Linux, as long as you compile it manually while solving a shitton of dependency problems.

27

And a Flatpak with an end-of-life FreeDesktop runtime from 2019 or something

3
feddit.cl

2017+3 Mk.III

not just having a backed up schroot of the old OS to run with schroot -c oldbuntu -u user /path/to/app

2

I'm predominantly a Windows user. However I dual boot with Mint as I am trying to get away from Windows. It's really not easy but I'm trying.

I gotta say though these types of posts make me cringe. I really don't know why some Linux users put themselves on a pedestal all the time. You make these sorts of smug posts making out that Linux is perfect. I have never installed Linux and had it just work. There is always something that requires searching the web for a fix and firing up the terminal to start changing something in /etc/.

I get it. You're proud of your technology. But vegans are proud they don't eat animal products. We don't need to keep selling it to the rest of the world.

25
lemm.ee

All three lines are incorrect, Amazing.

24

I'm on mac and I can't install many intel apps I used to rely on

2
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

Linux users need something to make them feel superior using an OS with a tiny marketshare.

-2
MooseBoysreply
lemmy.world

Something can cost $0 and still participate in the market. The cost to use something can even be negative $ (e.g. Bing paying you to use it).

2

Shhh. The Linux users brain is too filled with Terminal commands. They can't be learning new stuff like that!

0
midwest.social

If I want to dd /dev/zero to my bootsector, goddammit, let me do it.

17
lemmy.world

I was having trouble getting a DVD ripped, so I thought "Fuck it. I'm going to try dd". I used .iso for the file extension, and it worked.

5

I mean that is more a product of how .iso files are just the whole disk as a binary with a file extension

1

I had the opposite problem with Windows 11.

My typical way of shutting down my machine was Alt-D, Show Desktop, then Alt-F4, which brings up a shutdown menu.

For whatever reason in Win 11, they made this menu unable to trigger updates. So for the first several months of my Win 11 install it was quietly never receiving any updates at all.

16

Re-creation of someone else's post because the original was removed and I found it funny when I first saw it

If the original was removed, there's probably a reason.

This "meme" chooses the dumbest reasons Linux is better when there are so many other options than "updates" and "old app"

16

It's yet another "Linux good, other OS bad" meme, which is by far my least favorite kind of Linux meme

8

The reason the original was removed can be found at https://www.kevinswildlife.com/modlog/1016 by searching for the user "Kaped". Apparently it was because that user broke the rules regarding "No bigotry" and "Be respectful" on https://lemmy.ml/ and a mod wanted to "remove content".

I doubt those reasons were actually related to the post this one copies, as it doesn't seem bigoted, and probably isn't much less respectful than other ![email protected] content.

Also, memes can still be memes while being dumb. Unsophisticated stuff can also be funny! Perhaps fart jokes and other body humor are examples of this.

3

I think it's humorous how many people are getting offended at such a silly post

14
lemmy.today

It’s always entertaining when people complain about not being able to stop Windows updates.

Like, has it occurred to you that you are the reason the MS had to prevent you from being able to update your system?!

13
18107reply
aussie.zone

If updates didn't randomly delete user data I'd be slightly less worried.

6
OpenStarsreply
kbin.social

If only all updates were fully backwards compatible it would not be an issue.

2

What do you mean? I don't think any other operating system even comes close to Windows in regards to backwards compatibility. Most software designed for Windows 98 will still run fine on Windows 11.

There are thousands lines of code in the NT kernel with patches for specific programs. There is even a line patching an incompatibility with Lego Island, lol.

4
Honytawkreply
lemmy.zip

If updates were fully backwards compatible, they wouldn't be upgrades, they would be addons.

Windows has been notoriously backwards compatible, because it is extensively used in any business and tons of those have old machines that need to work 20 years before they pay themselves back, and thus need compatible OSes to run it.

Lately, Microsoft is finally trimming the fat that has been dragging along for decades, while still maintaining the compatibility by making it optional.

0

Right but my point is that since some updates have broken their machines in the past, people have (somewhat justifiably) hesitated to update so readily. Imagine a surgeon prepping for the most complex surgery of their life early the next morning and is using the machine to prep... oops, the machine updated, the prep software no longer functions, now they stay up all night trying to fix their machine that wasn't even broken to begin with, and the patient is at more risk than otherwise even if that works was successful. Ok so that's hyperbolic but it relates (with less dire consequences) to so many far more common scenarios, like a teacher and their students all getting ready to go through finals week, but that very month sometime the machine decides it will not wait even a handful of hours until those busy people have a moment to update more risk free (maybe they are even responsible enough to not do their banking and such on it, so that access to their electronic notes is more important to them than some hypothetical risk of leaving a known vulnerability?).

Maybe I am missing something, like if forced updates only occur after years of choosing to delay the update (I left Windows behind years ago, except when forced to at work), but in general my own preference is that the machine should serve me, perhaps presenting me with a strongly worded warning if I do not comply, but the ultimate authority should be me, to decide my own timeframe.

And in case it's not obvious, I am talking about personally maintained machines, not IT staff rolling out an update that they have properly vetted - that really is different, since while the check is external it still does exist, plus such a user does not really "own" that machine to begin with hence literally (read the contracts even) has no "rights" to complain, at least to Microsoft since that would be IT staff that made that choice, right or wrong.

1
programming.dev

Isn't Android just Linux under the hood? You are free to brick your device with root access.

12
russjr08reply
outpost.zeuslink.net

Yes, but a lot of devices don't support getting root access, or come with caveats from doing so (I remember at least on Sony devices in the past, doing so permanently erased the proprietary camera blobs which resulted in forever low quality pictures).

That being said, you can disable system apps in Android (with exceptions, can't disable SystemUI obviously) which is about as good as deleting them. Since they're on the system partition which is separate from the user data partition, it doesn't actually grant you any usable free space anyways AFAIK.

15
Waffelsonreply
lemmy.world

I remember disabling the Keyboard app on my phone with root

After that, I was unable to log in to the phone due to the inability to enter a password

I had to restore it from the phones BIOS

2

Eh, if you have root access, you can move things back and forth to the system partition if you want to make different use of the space. Not that that's a good idea, but you can do it. You'd be better off going the custom rom route if you need the space that much. Or it used to be better; no idea if the current options for roms actually do it the same.

1
Psythikreply
lemm.ee

You don't even need root access to delete system apps. You can do it easily with ADB.

3

And local ADB over wifi is a thing, so another device isn't even needed anymore.

2

Yes and no. It's more akin to virtual system based on a running linux.

-1

Linux users are like Vegans. No one likes them and they won't stop bratting about being a Linux user.

12

No, obnoxious elitism breeds controversy - or more likely, indifference.

12
lemmy.ca

You can stop unnecessary update on windows by using LTSC, on Android you can delete system app with adb or root

11

Unfortunately I'd rather have not learned anything related to what you posted. Android is hostile to GPL licensed software and Microsoft Windows surely is too, and they may use copyrighted or patented technology in their construction, so if I learn about them and then create software their creators may be able to build a case against me that I'm harming them, and I don't want that to be easy.

3

That's the another story, the point is we can stop unnecessary update on windows and uninstall system app on Android

2
programming.dev

Thank god adb is an option, though doing that, or rooting your phone, is something that requires some fiddling with hidden settings, or wading thru a seemingly endless stream of AI copy-pasted "tutorials". XDA has most answers, but not all of them, unfortunately.

3
lemm.ee

Unfortunately not all phones can be rooted.

Drives me nuts. It's MY hardware, dammit.

4
ColdWaterreply
lemmy.ca

Especially some Chinese owned companies (Oppo, vivo even Xiaomi) they have their bootloader locked tighter than my ex, but if custom ROM and rooting is your priority Samsung Google or Sony is probably your best bet

1

Samsung is a no-go, it's always a fight with them (I know, I still have my old S4's). You can root them, but it's a pain, they have stuff like Knox that always wants to run, yadda yadda.

Pixel is the way to go. Also the Essential Ph1, which, whole being from 2017, can run Lineage Android 13 and is still blazing fast.

Wish I could give you a second upvote for "tighter than my ex", haha!

1

Group policy too, or tattooing the registry with the same changes that gpedit makes.

1

On the plus side, even if you did need to update Linux, it's not like you are running anything on it anyways.

11
sopuli.xyz

Today I spent 50 minutes figuring out why my app could not set itself as default for www.instagram.com links. I don't have IG installed.

Turns out the latest Samsung OTA update re-enabled Meta App Manager, Meta App Installer and Meta Services. Any of which, while enabled, will result in the user setting an app to handle certain domain links, only for the users action to be instantly reversed without notification.

Edit: that's a gif if it doesn't show up correctly. I had an app advertise itself as IG but Meta kept hijacking the link handler. An uninstallable Samsung forced Meta app, that enables itself back after each OTA update.

If this was on desktop, someone would already be sued. But android? "Sorry can't uninstall system app"

10

Honestly, I have no idea why Samsung phones are so highly regarded in the Android world. Yes they have great hardware but their software is trash and has been trash for many years.

6
redfellowreply
sopuli.xyz

I'd call it an Android issue, as the OS lets vendors force uninstallable apps into their devices.

2
feddit.de

You don't get it. Samsung modifies Android to the extent that it's barely recognisable anymore. If you want to experience a pure Android experience, get a Google Pixel or flash your own ROM

Samsung's software is garbage and the main reason I will never buy their phones no matter how great their hardware is

0
redfellowreply
sopuli.xyz

The difference is, Samsung isn't able to modify for example their Windows devices like this, which is why I say the root issue lives in the OS level. It's one thing to bundle vendor software in, it's another when that OS has a feature in which you only let the owner of the device disable, not uninstall, said software.

2

That's because windows is closed source, duh. The beauty of Android is that you have the option to flash the version you want. You just choose to stick with the worst out of all Android versions and then complain about it lol

You're like a boomer complaining about Internet Explorer being slow

-1

Samsung’s software is garbage and the main reason I will never buy their phones no matter how great their hardware is

Amen.

Their "superior hardware" means nothing when the software is so garbage, the camera lags. The phone is full of bloatware despite buying it outright and unlocked. The phone pushes ads into every fucking app. The phone shows you a "themes" button on your homescreen, but then takes you to the store to buy more.. like wtf? I don't want to be shown price tags when I just dropped $2,000 on this phone. At least come pre-installed with a couple Samsung supported themes!?

2
0x2dreply

Also my Samsung tablet wants to use the emmc as swap space with no way to disable it 💀

I'm sure this wouldn't cause any performance issues at all...

3
lemmy.world

Are you using a carrier device or an unlocked device? All of my Samsung devices are unlocked and have almost no bloat, no meta stuff in sight.

Regardless, check out methods of uninstalling system apps with ADB. If you don't have a computer to use, the app, LADB, let's you use ADB commands on the device and executes them over wifi through wireless ADB

2
redfellowreply
sopuli.xyz

Unlocked Z Fold 5. Does adb require rooting? I'll google.

1

ADB does not require root. Just need a computer with ADB set up, or the app LADB (purchase on the app store) and a WiFi network.

3
Polarreply
lemmy.ca

Don't buy scummy Samsung devices. Any company that comes with Meta bloat, even when you buy them outright, fully unlocked, doesn't deserve your money.

1
lemmy.world

How is letting you brick your install with little warning an advantage?

rm -rf / you dont have permission to do that.

sudo rm -rf / [linux dutifully commits sudoku until rm itself is gone]

9
Romanmirreply
lemmy.today

And I think it’ll remove “rm” and keep right on going because Linux copies commands to ram then runs them, yeah?

11

Oh yeah. I've done it just for fun before reimaging a machine. It will mostly complete (some stuff isn't a real file so rm just fails), and your desktop environment will remain up and running while it happen. Then errors start popping up, icons stop working, nothing loads anymore, you can't reboot or shutdown because those were actually commands, and they're missing now...

4
xkforcereply
lemmy.world

Hmm I mean Ive never done it for obvious reasons but maybe? live cds/dvds load the whole OS in RAM and could erase everything but I am not sure about the OS on disk. I could try it in a vm and see what actually happens

2

Yes, it's copied to ram. Which is also the reason you don't need to stop programs while live updating them.

The new version is only again copied from disk, when you start it at a later time.

5

If your computer is doing puzzles while running the mindless tasks you assign it…. I suggest maybe finding more stimulating tasks. Just saying… ;)

3
lemmy.world

The duck should be Linux Mint, the only linux distro thats never given me an issue on any computer I used in my life. Sometimes I contemplate turning off timeshift because its been years since i've needed it and the 30-50gb space could be better used.

8
lemmy.ml

It always depends on the device and what you intend to do with it. Mint is perfect ootb on my laptop, but it's lacking for the things I use my desktop PC for.

There never is a one fits all

2
lemmy.world

It's actually pretty easy to permanently disable updates in Windows.

  • Go to Services.msc
  • Find Windows Update Services
  • Changed it to Disabled

Done.

8
WereCatreply
lemmy.world

Linux literally won't update unless I told it to so this is basically the same

9

Unfortunately, some distros have the auto-update option in the software center enabled by default. So if you don't explicitly disable that, Linux distros will update on the predefined schedules without additional confirmation. But you can still choose when to reboot, in case it is required to apply all changes.

3
krakenxreply
lemmy.world

Only if you never update at all. You can still update manually on your schedule, and control when the reboot happens.

5

it is usually not a great idea to not get updates on Windows however deferring them until later is usually not a bad idea and depending on your risk scenario updates may or may not I'll be all that necessary. however from a cyber security standpoint not updating Windows is moronic.

0
XGMreply
lemmy.world

This only works for a while on Windows 10 as the service will eventually become enabled. Depending on release we saw some PC's last a month while others could last a year with the service disabled.

For anybody wondering why, these stations had deep freeze which reverted any changes upon reboot.

3
lemmy.ca

You can't delete system apps on Android, but you can disable the ones that won't break your phone if they're disabled. I currently have Chrome, the Play Store (and, at least to an extent, Google Play Services), YouTube, and YouTube Music all disabled.

7
janareply
leminal.space

You can, pretty easily. Enable developer mode and use adb. Doesn't need root. (At least I didn't for YouTube; not sure about the rest)

1

Hm. I'll see if this works for YouTube, YouTube Music, and Chrome. They're only collecting dust right now since I switched to ReVanced and Firefox. Thanks! (I still need the Play Store since Google Play System Updates are run through it.)

1
noobnarskireply
feddit.de

Well if you root your phone you can definetly delete any app.

0

This is true, but I'm not at the point where I feel the need to do that. There are things I like about Google's Android and things I dislike about it. I just try to mitigate what I dislike about it as much as possible.

If Google stopped allowing 3rd party app installs, I'd definitely switch, though.

2

Just installed Ubuntu today for the first time in at least a decade. Touchpad two-finger scrolling is so sensitive. There’s no setting for it. I have to replace the driver with the synapse one, if my laptop supports it.

6
lemm.ee

You can delete system apps on Android with ADB. Doesn't even need root.

5

That doesn't sound like a terrible thing, though. If uninstalling something with ADB causes unwanted side effects, it's much less hassle to fix it.

2

Linux - I can't run that software.

Linux - I can't run that hardware, the drivers are for Windows/Mac only.

Linux mobile - I have the performance and depth of a diaper full of shit. (cough, cough²)

4

linux is barely better than macos in terms of backwards compatibility, literally the only stable api is the syscall one

3
sh.itjust.works

In everything funny there is a trace of something true, so I disagree that anything on this page is 100% false

0
orphiebabyreply
lemm.ee

In everything funny there is a trace of something true

Patently false. Or are all racist jokes true?

1

Wiktionary and thefreedictionary.com express that this phrase refers to the subjective belief of a person telling a joke (and I believe that extends to someone laughing at one) rather than that every joke expresses some objective truth.

However, this brings up the idea that subjective biases can prevent someone from actually understanding reality, so independently declaring that something is "100% false" is still dubious.

Do link-aggregation platforms like Lemmy have a documented method for marking things as true or false, other than by trying to change the relative number of upvotes? Community standards regarding what content should be most prominently displayed are documented for Wiktionary and Wikipedia.

Regardless, I don't want to discuss the implications of an aphorism on racism, as any disagreement in that discussion may be interpreted as being against the rules of our instances.

1

“I breed insufferable, socially awkward users who are incapable of understanding subjective like and dislike and constantly feel the need to make fun of other peoples opinions. People who can only respond with the equivalent of ‘u mad bro’ or ‘it’s just a joke I keep repeating over and over; which, only people that hang out with me find funny. Despite very clearly and consistently demonstrating a massive superiority complex’”

And no I’m not mad, just figured I’d call y’all out for continuing to be the equivalent of that annoying seventh grader who won’t shut the fuck up at the back of the bus. lol

1

Linux, if we're counting the entire userland and typical components rather than just the kernel and its interface, definitely has worse (binary) compatibility than Windows, and potentially even Mac OS. The only saving grace is things like Flatpak which bundle the entire system tree they need with them and therefore have pretty long-lasting binary compatibility. But it's quite normal to have to recompile some old software from scratch when some common system libraries get updated, really only core things like glibc have long-lasting binary compatibility, and you can't even guarantee that compatible system libraries still exist even when compiling from source sometimes, because every project has a different approach to backward compatibility.

Now, to be honest, things are much better with containerization (like flatpak/snap/docker/etc.), but that doesn't really help you much for software that's older than those unless someone bothers to try to figure out all of the dependencies and package them up and it still works. The only reason why it seems to be okay is that Linux distributions recompile all of the deps for you every time something changes and you get everything all at once, so you rarely see any of that all break. But if you have anything compiled from source, and you didn't statically link the whole thing, you'll see the problem.

0
Polarreply
lemmy.ca

Oh that's great! So why doesn't my WiFi, Bluetooth, Speakers, or trackpad work? Why do I need to spend hours running terminal commands, plugged into Ethernet (since WiFi isn't working), just for none of them to actually make my speakers work?

-1

Me omw to drop complaints without context

What's your laptop model? Brand? The distro you used?

If your laptop still wouldn't work on Fedora Silverblue, idk already.

2