About the same percentage of Americans protested against Trump in March as French protested over the weekend.
But with 1/10 the population density, the US protests appeared smaller.
edit: numbers were wrong - about 1/4 the population density. And the US had about 0.9% of its population participate in the March No Kings protest as opposed to France's 0.7%. So the US appears to be more active than France in protests, but they can't concentrate the majority of their protests in a single city like France can.
I also take umbrage with the notion that 0.9% of the population standing in a field or walking down a street would be as "active" as 0.7% of the population getting in street fights with cops and burning buildings down, even if both happened for the same amount of time.
Side note: the person that said this just got divorced for beating his wife. And he has been looking for a girlfriend and he has a list of demands he’s wants for a future relationship.
I find the looting and property damage stupid because there are plenty of Billionaires and Politicians to loot and property damage yet they primarily targeting cafes and shops.
It’s because it (typically) isn’t the political activists who are the ones looting. It is groups of criminals who just take advantage of the situation and the protestors are blamed.
Oligarchs are very well insulated, both physically and financially. The nice part of town isn't full of billionaires. It's full of doctors and lawyers and other professionals.
Even if you do manage to burn down a Walmart or something, chances are the financials are insulated enough that the Waltons won't even see a drop in net worth.
One guy with connections and the cash on hand to put together a plan and carry it out.
It's not impossible. But even then, most CEOs aren't billionaires. That one wasn't. The people sitting on the board of directors and majority shareholders are the billionaires.
Reminds me of people that can look past concentration camps, murders carried out by ice, blatant corruption, bombing schools, and genocide but they draw the line at having to pay 2$ more for gas
They only care when it affects their daily lives. Fuck black, brown, trans, gay, and women for they are something entirely different than a white american man.
Since you won’t answer my question about nationality, im going to assume you’re from a “western” country, so your excuse of having limited media access is bullshit. You’re a fucking piece of trash if you think ICE hasn’t murdered people and are going to get into a hissy fit about the definitions. You’re fucking scum and deserve to be treated as such.
Mods, before you come deleting this comment for AbUsE, look at what this motherfucker is here commenting. Would you rather censor someone for calling someone a bad name, or for blatantly denying state sanctioned murders? Pick your hill to die on.
Edit: His account got nuked lmaooooooo fuck you Nazi.
You are batshit fucking insane. The videos are out there for the world to see. Good shot in her car while driving away from the scene, not trying to hurt any of the officers, and Pretti literally knelt down in the street and executed in the back of the head. All filmed, all major major news that every “western” country saw.
I hope you get exactly what you deserve for being such a piece of shit human, and you deserve that absolute worst.
Canadians might be worse in terms of doing nothing. The average Canadian in my experience can't even imagine politics left of the NDP (our social democrats).
The slow slide to the right that's just beginning here feels like it's just a boring fact and not a struggle.
Yah but at least we don't vote in obvious fascists or separate under obvious foreign lobbying, your just fingerprinting to avoid facing the reality the left in America is getting walked all over.
When? stop saying 'it'll happen' just because Americans are Fuck ups and projecting their failure when it's clear it's not taking hold in Canada. If anything it's getting weaker as we watch America further fall because of this mindset. Many in my life that first though maga and Donald were great and done a 180 having seen what a monumental failure of governance he's perpetrated, stop getting sucked into those failed liberals doomerism.
Wtf are you talking about, there has been no backsliding here in Canada, you sound like a maga nutcase when Joe was in office going on about lonni shit with no base in reality.
The only thing we reduced was immigration and it improved youth job numbers. That's the only thing that's changed. You can blame Justin for that, mass importing laborer by over half a mill a year. It's not like we're dragging people off to concentration camps like ice are.
You sound exactly like some conservative who'd complain about "immigrants shitting on beaches" or something like that, so why should I trust you on this?
I wish they did nothing. But no, they go to work and pay taxes and take a vacation day to go to a protest. Doing nothing, i.e. a general strike, might actually accomplish something.
Nothing?
They are on social media all day complaining and crying.
Or posting infantile sadistic fantasies of what they would do to evil Trump.
And they make super cool edgy memes and signs.
There are pros and cons, the violence and damage done in the French protests also make it easy for the rightwing to shatter solidarity among left and center voices. These protestors take the narrative the rightwing wants to push about the left and immigrants hook line and sinker without reflecting on the consequences of that, which is very very very very dangerous.
Rightwing fascists want nothing more than this to become a fist fight, it is the only environment their shitty politics can survive in because everyone is too distracted by the violence to actually interrogate what each side is saying and determine fascists are violent and full of shit.
You can criticize a protest like No Kings in the US for being wayyyy too deferential to the status quo, but you can also on the flipside point out that everyone who goes to a peaceful mass protest leaves knowing they are in the majority, and that a vast diversity of people have arrived at the same conclusion and desire to exert their will in a collective fashion that no significant percentage of the society resists in a rational way even if the power structures do.
Once you start throwing bricks at the cops and burning everything down you cut the potential for solidarity into two opposing sides which isn't so say that ACAB isn't true or that the pearl clutching around property damage isn't insulting given the human suffering the protests are meant to illuminate but the vision of the social project becomes diminished once things enter that realm, you have a war at that point not a social movement.
All that being said, I don't think the protestors are the problem, not even remotely, the inhuman conditions for the average person are the problem. I am also not trying to say a certain way of protesting is necessarily wrong, but this idea that we aren't in a struggle of primarily narrative is a sure fire way to lose catastrophically as the left which to be honest France should be alot more cognizant about given their history than they seem to be...
We all know rightwing fascists need and deserve to be punched in the face, but if you lean into that unreflectively you make it easy for them to portray the situation as a tit for tat fight rather than an existential struggle against dehumanization.
Yep France will have a Nazi for president next year. These riots swayed many centrist voters. Like during the riots someone burned down historic buildings. One thing the French have in common is that they love their historic architecture. Though good chance some agent provacteur from Israel, US or Russia instigated it all.
Who says I'm American? Dumbass canuck, I'm Dutch and live in the Netherlands and we've seen France shift harder to the right every time these type of riots take place. France will be more like America after the presidential election next year when a Trump and Netanyahu loving Nazi takes the highest seat in office.
Retailleau the isreali is what France will have to look forward to if the left their can't pull their heads out of their asses and offer solutions to Frances mounting debts without further dismantling their social security.
Also I assumed you were American because you sound like the cry baby lib failures that are all over the US there that just love pointing fingers when they repeatedly Fuck up and fail to do anything about their deteriorating nation, I have 0 simpathy for people who will not escalate when they are having their livelyhoods taken from them then have the gall to complain about it when nothing goes their way.
That's a fascist's secret : everything feeds into their narratives. If leftists aren't a threat to fight with heavily armed cops, they are weaklings to ignore and trample over with heavily armed cops.
Radical politics will never please centrists. The trick is to ignore centrists and engage directly with people upset at the status quo. Give them something to believe in. Centrists will follow, as they always do, by definition. For radicals there is no such thing as bad publicity - every news story only serves to prove that they have impact.
Ok well that is your anecdote, the No Kings rallies have been some of the largest protests in US history and have approached the often quoted percentage of people necessary to ensure a successful social movement/revolution.
And nothing changed? The pedo is still ordering his goons to kill citizens, they're trying to deport a member of Congress, and they're perpetuating the war in the middle east (and a myriad of other stuff).
Where's the line? When will the Americans do anything about it?
If the US protested right now the way France is, it would result in law enforcement being given complete permission to be as violent as they want because the "violent" left has finally come that they have spent decades hammering over the US people's heads about.
Doing something about it first and foremost means not handing power to the narratives your enemy existentially needs you to feed into to retain legitimacy amd justify lethal violence against you.
No Kings is run by the same Liberal organizations that support the Democratic party. They might as well be party sponsored events. Nothing will change when the Market liberal donkeys are in charge, besides the visibility of ICE.
It’s performative. Remember, everything they take time to speak up on is projection of some sort, so they’re just mad about the reasons for the protests and find it advantageous to complain about the small percentage of people taking advantage of the protests to loot and cause damage in order to distract and taint the movements they don’t like or support. They’re literally virtue signaling, another thing they like to condemn when it’s done by someone they disagree with or don’t like, but here they are sitting behind a screen typing out how they would never do property damage or enter a building without permission or when it’s against the law, despite not speaking up when it’s their “side” doing it.
False dichotomy if there ever was one. The small businesses that are burned down or destroyed or emptied don't have anything to do with the oligarchs or pedophiles, they are often neighbours of the looters. What have they done to deserve that? Sorry, looting them doesn't further any good cause, indeed, it is just serving the narrative of the opposing side.
Protests, riots are almost never monolithic and desperate people and local organized crime almost always takes advantage of the commotion.
There are already reports of Police antagonists stirring up commotion in these.
There is a very long history of far-right agitators trying to hijack and smear justifiable legitimate protests. Many examples from the 2020 BLM protests.
Foreign adversaries -- notably Russia -- almost always seizes on these and has a hand in stirring up division.
So the fallacy is the assumption that the people committing the looting are the same people who originally set out to protest the following grievances:
Severe under-funding of schools.
Overcrowded classrooms and lack of air conditioning in excessively-hot climate.
Teacher shortages and schedules.
To again reiterate, much of the time legitimate protests are hijacked by outside groups for their own ulterior motives (political optics, theft, etc.)
The fact that we're even having these discussions shows how susceptible people are to this brand of propaganda. There people have the vote, the media and protests, remember that they will try to erode your faith in those institutions at every turn.
Even that bbc article isn't conclusive. They are (a) mostly isolating the cloudflare citations, which even that company in your own very article freely admits they cannot fully isolate but also not particularly rule-out precisely the bot activity taking place; (b) only isolate "known russian propaganda networks" and (c) take the word of Yandex itself (silly lol).
I say, Ukraine should very well strike them all, and let's confirm it! :)
Meh. Propaganda doesn't necessarily have to be false; especially when it's the righteous side that doesn't have a war criminal at the helm charged by the ICC (much like Bibi).
But anyway this is all tangential to the original out-of-the-blue weirdness of your knee-jerk response to my original comment full of whataboutism and false equivalence, "You think Russia agitates more than Israel or America, LOL?" Indeed, very weird. Audience take note!
That is objectively a good thing when we're talking about the country that can't stop itself from starting illegal wars of aggression and doing genocides across the world.
They also cause America to lose hard and soft power on the global stage, lessening its ability to dominate the rest of us, and hopefully leading to its collapse.
When there's something negative posted about one of the 2 US fascist parties there's invariably at least one comment saying:
Watch out, these are RuZZian bots trying to sow division!
You moralizing about what is essentially an uncontrollable phenomenon, is serving the narrative of the opposing side. Nobody is in control of a riot by definition. All kinds of shit is gonna get fucked up. Focusing on individual incidents is falling into a trap that the ruling class lays for a credulous audience.
People plundering stores are very much in control of themselves, give me a break. I don't blame anyone else for those actions than those who commit them.
I hate when people pull out this stupid straw man argument, "Think of the poor small businesses". Small businesses in this country are all but non existent at this point, most of them have been forced to close their doors thanks to big chains like Walmart and Target. The closest we have to small businesses in most areas are franchisees from the big chain fast food restaurants.
Sorry, I thought this was relating to the French unrests. There is no Walmart in France. Have a look at the shops that were destroyed and then count how many of them are large chains and how many were local businesses.
Where in the US is that true?! The worst city in America for chain stores can't quite hit 3 of 4. Almost every state has better than half of stores in the hands of small business.
That man is enough of a landlord that a molotov cocktail is probably justified in some way shape or form. That dude is part of the petit borgeousie for sure.
The guy driving for Uber and getting paid by them as his employer is not a small business owner. He's a poor proletariat schmuck just like most of us.
Someone that owns their own income generating property. I.e., a business. Which is small. Local definitions put that at either <500 employees or <7.5m operating revenue.
I was wrong though, only ~16% of truckers are small business owners. They're the ones called "owner operators". Because they own their own truck.
Technically, anyone filling out form 1099 come tax time is a small business owner.
The business have insurances, and actually don't loose at being attacked. Many even benefit of the insurance to renew their shop in a more modern way ; it is at the point police sometimes even doubt the shop owner may have asked to be a target. It can also be a good time to burn accountancy documents when some were a problem, and destroy those stock of merchandises they knew they could not sell (so insurance pay for them).
Yet for some it is a real moral pain to see their shop looted, of course...
Most of the times they find it boring, yes. Yet do you know one that has really lost something after the death of Nahel? In my town most burnt shops reopened fast, renewed, and more attractive than before.
And I can't remember any casualties for shop owners, beside those who got caught trying to hide the bankruptie of their company as a riot burning (for insurance). Do you know some that had real (unsolved) problems because of riots?
As much as I like the roof Koreans, they would get firebombed if they were in France, the reason they worked in America was because Americans are pussys and when legit confronted with violence, they piss their pants and run away.
Won't speak for you, but I'm not getting close enough to toss a Molotov cocktail at a man in an elevated position with a long gun. 😬 (Seriously, reread your comment and think out how that would work IRL.)
My only concerns and areas I consider off limits really are pharmacies and medical supply stores, medical places. Thinking on it a bit and ruminating, I can accept small businesses being looted if it provides incentive for the person to be upset with the state as well instead of the protests.
Because people, especially those rioting, are dependent on the medicines that such establishments provide. I thought the idea was don't fuck with the firefighters and paramedics. I would have thought it extends toward those.
What are you, some oligarch boot licker? We are descending into authoritarianism and you are endorsing oligarch talking points to discredit movements for reform.
Wow, that guy is burning down people's livelihoods. That's a great point, I never thought of it that way. Destroying private property is awesome. Thanks to this french contemporary looting artist I saw on TV, I realized I don't have any property and I don't give a shit when the bourgeoisie loses theirs. He really moved me.
USians don't even wanna do a mass strike let alone march in and remove the people causing so many people to die and put them out of everyone's misery. Bunch of moaning little self righteous PC ego trippers.
propaganda is done its work to make people not protest to be honest as one. Also the republicans dont protest at all, because they believe in hierachy so they dont like ruffling the feathers. and people are still being paid based on thier job/fields high enough to not become upset over.
Yup, so many people cam out of the wood work to point figure at Germany when their nazi party won one Provence, not the whole country, a PROVENCE. Many libs on here are hypocrites looking to point fingers because deep down, they know their efforts are weak.
Small amount of looting? That has absolutely destroyed the livelihood of some of the small shop owners while also negatively affecting the local economies for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, mansions, multinational offices, and banks, y'know, the ones belonging to the supposed oligarchs pushing the ever-diminishing standards of living have remained untouched.
Face it, the protests have been hijacked by criminal opportunists with the barest facade of an excuse, and far from it being just "USians" condemning it, now every far-right social network in every part of the world pushed into the feeds by their respective Musks is taking advantage of the mayhem to associate it to their opposition and to top it off with a heavy dose of racism. Seeing Paris burned down by people who are students in facade only (and it's easy to tell the rioters from the students actually protesting) has absolutely fed the growth of the far right across multiple countries while doing little to economically help anyone but the looters who help themselves.
Small amount of looting? That has absolutely destroyed the livelihood of some of the small shop owners while also negatively affecting the local economies for the foreseeable future
You'll need to point out which small shops were looted, because from what's been reported, it's mostly luxury boutique stores.
Nevermind, I saw the links you provided. Super unfortunate for the small shop owners
Once more, only insurances lost some money. Shopowners will be fine. Their shop will be renewed with insurance money. It is not the first time such happens, last was about a year ago...
Maybe it will be renewed, maybe it won't. Maybe they weren't insured or maybe their claim will just be rejected. Anyway it sucks big time for those who had their property destroyed even if they get back every euro.
Not insured for such? I am not sure if it is possible here, but it would be totally stupid. The only cause of rejection would come from proof the shopowner was at the initiative of looting and burning (which is rarely the case, but happens).
Ironically enough, the big multinational shopping centers will be the ones most likely to recover. Half the businesses lacked loss of activity coverage, and there were plenty of them that had to wait half a year or more for any payout. Thinking there were no bankruptcies is ignorance beyond belief.
Just because you don't see or care about owners having to pass down their businesses and just treat them like faceless stores doesn't mean they aren't forced to roll over. It's like claiming who cares about riot police being violent with protestors when they can just go to the hospital.
You know how the economy is, and you are choosing to victim blame the riot victims if they are "stupid" enough not to be able to get back on their feet, no matter if they have literally nothing to do with what the protests are supposedly against. Just don't be surprised when your rationale ends up with those shops eventually ending up in the hands of the large multinationals that can survive it and the society becomes even more dystopian.
I live in France, in a working class/poor side of town. During last riots (2023), some shops got looted and burnt, some only looted (and some fully spared). They were not multinationals, just local shops. All of them got rebuilt and renewed, or reimboursed of the stolen goods. None has closed. I care about them, they are the shops where I buy things.
I may check what international news say in their analysis ; but understand that it is not that easy to believe this time will be very different from the previous one, while the previous one was already as the one before it.
And no, violence toward humans isn't the same as stealing from a shop, nor violence against goods. Should some hurt, even lightly, a shopowner, it would be a big thing in my opinion. Violences against material things aren't that important, some may not be smart nor usefull ; some can be helpful for the cause.
Also, keep in mind that since at least 15 years, in France, the gouvernment won't try to listen the people if there are no huge damages. So you may hate it, but that has became a rule. When a pacific dialog was possible, there were no riots here, just peaceful manifestations.
And yet nobody seems willing to acknowledge that America has just turned out a fourth largest protest in the nation's history over the last two years, mobilizing tens of millions of people with no significant reports of violence or looting.
I guess it doesn't count when organizers successfully create a peaceful environment that doesn't play into the hands of the fascists in our government who are looking for any excuse to enact martial law and suspend elections to establish their total and complete authority?
What does that large protest do, though? In what way does it pressure the state to enact change? A large amount of people asking nicely doesn't make fascists decide to no longer be fascist - at best all you can really do with it is spread your message to more people.
It took more than peaceful protests during the civil rights movement, and our state still is systemically discriminatory against minorities.
America is a vastly different country now versus what it was during the civil rights movement. If Nixon got ousted for Watergate, imagine how short Trump's presidency would have been had he taken office in that era.
Our government today is not aligned with the interests of the general public. It serves the interests of a small subset of the populace and rallies broader support through authoritarian action against a propagandized enemy.
The reality is that this government will not be influenced by any protest we can realistically organize. Despite our 2A rights, the state has far more power than its citizens possess in arms. Economically, too many Americans are either too beholden to or dependent on the system to endure a general strike. A violent protest will turn the general public against the movement and give the state an excuse to crush dissent and make themselves out to be the hero.
These large, peaceful protests are not intended to directly influence the state to change policy but rather are designed to invite the public into a safe space with their neighbors and community where they are more receptive to the idea that we are oppressed by the system this state perpetuates and how we can realistically enact change. The midterms will be a measure of how effective this movement has been.
our government who are looking for any excuse to enact martial law and suspend elections to establish their total and complete authority?
Lmao, well goodness, it's a good thing you guys didn't upset anyone during your parade, you wouldn't want the government to act lawlessly and in an authoritarian manner!
Yes but that only matters if the government your under gives a shit about that sort of thing. You doing nothing as they round up 'illegal voters' is playing into the hands of fascists.
We had nationwide protests that turned violent with rioting and looting in 2020 under this same regime. It achieved no meaningful change but to turn public opinion against the movement. We're still recovering from the social trauma that caused and it's only given ammunition to the opposition. Portland, OR is still a pariah on the national scene due to the violence and looting that happened here in 2020 despite the last six years of adopting a more peaceful way of protesting.
The regime was unprepared for the violent response then but they are prepared for it now. A year ago they were doing everything they could to provoke a violent response, declaring blue cities as enemies within and deploying our own states' national guards against us. Our response was to turn out in large, peaceful numbers. It made this regime look foolish and they've since halted their deployment of the military against blue cities.
They need us to be violent so they can use it to turn the general public against us; and so we show up peacefully and "do nothing". As a result, they have no enemy to rally the general public against, their actions have no justification and public opinion of this regime is at record-breaking lows and is continuing to trend lower.
it's a false dichotomy you are presenting. do you want to say any protests against pedophiles ruling the world will necessitate some people being looted, which is a sacrifice you are willing to make. can we not imagine a better world? can we not support the protests with full force while also condemning the looting?
I think it's a critique about the inaction and then the condemning more than the method of action.
Not to mention that the meme and it's sentence structure is following the script from the show, Community because that's how Brenda said it. So I'm not going to read too much into a meme
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About the same percentage of Americans protested against Trump in March as French protested over the weekend.
But with 1/10 the population density, the US protests appeared smaller.
edit: numbers were wrong - about 1/4 the population density. And the US had about 0.9% of its population participate in the March No Kings protest as opposed to France's 0.7%. So the US appears to be more active than France in protests, but they can't concentrate the majority of their protests in a single city like France can.
The US protests are not nearly as sustained or as regulaly occurring as the French protests.
I also take umbrage with the notion that 0.9% of the population standing in a field or walking down a street would be as "active" as 0.7% of the population getting in street fights with cops and burning buildings down, even if both happened for the same amount of time.
so they protested at a shocking 1/10 per capita. significantly loweredit: I can't read?
No, they protested at the similar rate per capita. Just fewer people per square kilometer.
France is nearly 550,000 square kilometers in size. The US is nearly 10 million square kilometers in size.
France has about 125 people per square kilometer. The US has 34.
idk how I read that completely wrong. my mind entirely swapped "percentage" for "number"
Not how density works.
A coworker says that all the problems in Paris is because Hillary has sent Antifa to cause chaos…
But the chaos is not the bad part... the bad part is, as the meme says, normalising ever-diminishing standards of living (frogboiling)...
Yeah no wonder oligarchs can get away with anything when the populace is that gullible
Side note: the person that said this just got divorced for beating his wife. And he has been looking for a girlfriend and he has a list of demands he’s wants for a future relationship.
Hey, at least he's clear about it. Much better than someone who pretends to be left-wing to get in someone's pants.
I draw the line at needless deviations from meme formats.
I find the looting and property damage stupid because there are plenty of Billionaires and Politicians to loot and property damage yet they primarily targeting cafes and shops.
It’s because it (typically) isn’t the political activists who are the ones looting. It is groups of criminals who just take advantage of the situation and the protestors are blamed.
And LePen's campaign manager rubs his hands in satisfaction...
You mean usually undercover police officers trying to give themselves an excuse to arrest protesters?
And agent provocateurs sent to stir shit to discredit the movement and give the police an excuse to crack skulls.
Yeah...that's not really possible?
Oligarchs are very well insulated, both physically and financially. The nice part of town isn't full of billionaires. It's full of doctors and lawyers and other professionals.
Even if you do manage to burn down a Walmart or something, chances are the financials are insulated enough that the Waltons won't even see a drop in net worth.
One guy working alone found the United healthcare CEO. Imagine if 1000 worked together like they did to loot a small shop.
One guy with connections and the cash on hand to put together a plan and carry it out.
It's not impossible. But even then, most CEOs aren't billionaires. That one wasn't. The people sitting on the board of directors and majority shareholders are the billionaires.
I'm sure theyed getting their buisnesses robbed as well.
Reminds me of people that can look past concentration camps, murders carried out by ice, blatant corruption, bombing schools, and genocide but they draw the line at having to pay 2$ more for gas
They only care when it affects their daily lives. Fuck black, brown, trans, gay, and women for they are something entirely different than a white american man.
This is a fucking joke, right?
Oh your one of those padantic losers...
Yes I'm glad you both understand and are ok with state sanctioned killing and regular murder, vary good.
Apparently you aren't, actually
What nationality are you, out of curiosity?
You mean which data center hosts them?
Since you won’t answer my question about nationality, im going to assume you’re from a “western” country, so your excuse of having limited media access is bullshit. You’re a fucking piece of trash if you think ICE hasn’t murdered people and are going to get into a hissy fit about the definitions. You’re fucking scum and deserve to be treated as such.
Mods, before you come deleting this comment for AbUsE, look at what this motherfucker is here commenting. Would you rather censor someone for calling someone a bad name, or for blatantly denying state sanctioned murders? Pick your hill to die on.
Edit: His account got nuked lmaooooooo fuck you Nazi.
You are batshit fucking insane. The videos are out there for the world to see. Good shot in her car while driving away from the scene, not trying to hurt any of the officers, and Pretti literally knelt down in the street and executed in the back of the head. All filmed, all major major news that every “western” country saw.
I hope you get exactly what you deserve for being such a piece of shit human, and you deserve that absolute worst.
And those are just the white people lol. A ton of others have been executed but they were too brown for mass media coverage
Fuck you, Nazi scum.
Wooooow
You my friend are out of your mind
He’s not a friend, he’s fucking scum and deserving of being treated like it.
In case anyone would be down to come to the comments of a meme and leave with further reading: In Defense of Looting: A Riotous History of Uncivil Action by Vicky Osterweil
media is only showing looting to gain sympathey for the right.
Yup
Because Americans literally do nothing as their form of protest. They allow the steamrolling to happen to protect their own vapid moral integrity.
Canadians might be worse in terms of doing nothing. The average Canadian in my experience can't even imagine politics left of the NDP (our social democrats).
The slow slide to the right that's just beginning here feels like it's just a boring fact and not a struggle.
Yah but at least we don't vote in obvious fascists or separate under obvious foreign lobbying, your just fingerprinting to avoid facing the reality the left in America is getting walked all over.
We will eventually.
When? stop saying 'it'll happen' just because Americans are Fuck ups and projecting their failure when it's clear it's not taking hold in Canada. If anything it's getting weaker as we watch America further fall because of this mindset. Many in my life that first though maga and Donald were great and done a 180 having seen what a monumental failure of governance he's perpetrated, stop getting sucked into those failed liberals doomerism.
It definitely is beginning to happen with immigrants, indigenous people, and trans people. We're like 20 years off from it.
Wtf are you talking about, there has been no backsliding here in Canada, you sound like a maga nutcase when Joe was in office going on about lonni shit with no base in reality. The only thing we reduced was immigration and it improved youth job numbers. That's the only thing that's changed. You can blame Justin for that, mass importing laborer by over half a mill a year. It's not like we're dragging people off to concentration camps like ice are.
You sound exactly like some conservative who'd complain about "immigrants shitting on beaches" or something like that, so why should I trust you on this?
I wish they did nothing. But no, they go to work and pay taxes and take a vacation day to go to a protest. Doing nothing, i.e. a general strike, might actually accomplish something.
The treats will run out eventually
Nothing?
They are on social media all day complaining and crying.
Or posting infantile sadistic fantasies of what they would do to evil Trump.
And they make super cool edgy memes and signs.
the oligarchs have it made in america
There are pros and cons, the violence and damage done in the French protests also make it easy for the rightwing to shatter solidarity among left and center voices. These protestors take the narrative the rightwing wants to push about the left and immigrants hook line and sinker without reflecting on the consequences of that, which is very very very very dangerous.
Rightwing fascists want nothing more than this to become a fist fight, it is the only environment their shitty politics can survive in because everyone is too distracted by the violence to actually interrogate what each side is saying and determine fascists are violent and full of shit.
You can criticize a protest like No Kings in the US for being wayyyy too deferential to the status quo, but you can also on the flipside point out that everyone who goes to a peaceful mass protest leaves knowing they are in the majority, and that a vast diversity of people have arrived at the same conclusion and desire to exert their will in a collective fashion that no significant percentage of the society resists in a rational way even if the power structures do.
Once you start throwing bricks at the cops and burning everything down you cut the potential for solidarity into two opposing sides which isn't so say that ACAB isn't true or that the pearl clutching around property damage isn't insulting given the human suffering the protests are meant to illuminate but the vision of the social project becomes diminished once things enter that realm, you have a war at that point not a social movement.
All that being said, I don't think the protestors are the problem, not even remotely, the inhuman conditions for the average person are the problem. I am also not trying to say a certain way of protesting is necessarily wrong, but this idea that we aren't in a struggle of primarily narrative is a sure fire way to lose catastrophically as the left which to be honest France should be alot more cognizant about given their history than they seem to be...
We all know rightwing fascists need and deserve to be punched in the face, but if you lean into that unreflectively you make it easy for them to portray the situation as a tit for tat fight rather than an existential struggle against dehumanization.
Yep France will have a Nazi for president next year. These riots swayed many centrist voters. Like during the riots someone burned down historic buildings. One thing the French have in common is that they love their historic architecture. Though good chance some agent provacteur from Israel, US or Russia instigated it all.
You just so badly want places to end up like america so you can feel better about your own inaction, pathetic.
Who says I'm American? Dumbass canuck, I'm Dutch and live in the Netherlands and we've seen France shift harder to the right every time these type of riots take place. France will be more like America after the presidential election next year when a Trump and Netanyahu loving Nazi takes the highest seat in office.
Retailleau the isreali is what France will have to look forward to if the left their can't pull their heads out of their asses and offer solutions to Frances mounting debts without further dismantling their social security.
Also I assumed you were American because you sound like the cry baby lib failures that are all over the US there that just love pointing fingers when they repeatedly Fuck up and fail to do anything about their deteriorating nation, I have 0 simpathy for people who will not escalate when they are having their livelyhoods taken from them then have the gall to complain about it when nothing goes their way.
I criticize them for being too small, too infrequent and too short a duration.
...and I criticize the France protests for feeding directly into fascist narratives that appeal to centrists in such a blatantingly stupid way.
Both are valid lines of criticism shrugs
That's a fascist's secret : everything feeds into their narratives. If leftists aren't a threat to fight with heavily armed cops, they are weaklings to ignore and trample over with heavily armed cops.
Radical politics will never please centrists. The trick is to ignore centrists and engage directly with people upset at the status quo. Give them something to believe in. Centrists will follow, as they always do, by definition. For radicals there is no such thing as bad publicity - every news story only serves to prove that they have impact.
Why do you think that the heavily armed cops lose when they have actual enemies to focus their violence that require their skills?
People demonstrate.
Chill man, it’s Missouri—anyone showing out is impressive.
Ok well that is your anecdote, the No Kings rallies have been some of the largest protests in US history and have approached the often quoted percentage of people necessary to ensure a successful social movement/revolution.
And nothing changed? The pedo is still ordering his goons to kill citizens, they're trying to deport a member of Congress, and they're perpetuating the war in the middle east (and a myriad of other stuff).
Where's the line? When will the Americans do anything about it?
If the US protested right now the way France is, it would result in law enforcement being given complete permission to be as violent as they want because the "violent" left has finally come that they have spent decades hammering over the US people's heads about.
Doing something about it first and foremost means not handing power to the narratives your enemy existentially needs you to feed into to retain legitimacy amd justify lethal violence against you.
And nothing of consequence happened, lol.
No Kings is run by the same Liberal organizations that support the Democratic party. They might as well be party sponsored events. Nothing will change when the Market liberal donkeys are in charge, besides the visibility of ICE.
Cuckservatives support billionaire pedophiles because that's what they aspire to be.
It’s performative. Remember, everything they take time to speak up on is projection of some sort, so they’re just mad about the reasons for the protests and find it advantageous to complain about the small percentage of people taking advantage of the protests to loot and cause damage in order to distract and taint the movements they don’t like or support. They’re literally virtue signaling, another thing they like to condemn when it’s done by someone they disagree with or don’t like, but here they are sitting behind a screen typing out how they would never do property damage or enter a building without permission or when it’s against the law, despite not speaking up when it’s their “side” doing it.
THE TRAINS ARENT RUNNING ON TIME REEEEEEEEEE
choo choo motherfucker
False dichotomy if there ever was one. The small businesses that are burned down or destroyed or emptied don't have anything to do with the oligarchs or pedophiles, they are often neighbours of the looters. What have they done to deserve that? Sorry, looting them doesn't further any good cause, indeed, it is just serving the narrative of the opposing side.
Some things to remember:
So the fallacy is the assumption that the people committing the looting are the same people who originally set out to protest the following grievances:
To again reiterate, much of the time legitimate protests are hijacked by outside groups for their own ulterior motives (political optics, theft, etc.)
The fact that we're even having these discussions shows how susceptible people are to this brand of propaganda. There people have the vote, the media and protests, remember that they will try to erode your faith in those institutions at every turn.
You think Russia agitates more than Israel or America, LOL?
Ah... I see Yandex must be coming back online.
That, or this is China's 50 Cent Party coming to support its genocidal ally lol.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9y7l0pm8jkko
Holy shit you guys are still running with that propaganda, lmao?
https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/russian-bot-activity-collapses-by-84-after-strikes-on-yandex-data-centers-23546
Yes lol (more recent source, btw)
Even that bbc article isn't conclusive. They are (a) mostly isolating the cloudflare citations, which even that company in your own very article freely admits they cannot fully isolate but also not particularly rule-out precisely the bot activity taking place; (b) only isolate "known russian propaganda networks" and (c) take the word of Yandex itself (silly lol).
I say, Ukraine should very well strike them all, and let's confirm it! :)
Slava Ukraini!
I'm gonna go ahead and not believe war propaganda from a country currently at war, lol.
Meh. Propaganda doesn't necessarily have to be false; especially when it's the righteous side that doesn't have a war criminal at the helm charged by the ICC (much like Bibi).
But anyway this is all tangential to the original out-of-the-blue weirdness of your knee-jerk response to my original comment full of whataboutism and false equivalence, "You think Russia agitates more than Israel or America, LOL?" Indeed, very weird. Audience take note!
It doesn't matter who, the fact is the division and chaos is being amplified from outside.
That is objectively a good thing when we're talking about the country that can't stop itself from starting illegal wars of aggression and doing genocides across the world.
The candidates that are more aggressive and genocidal tend to be the ones who benefit from the chaos and division though... ?
They also cause America to lose hard and soft power on the global stage, lessening its ability to dominate the rest of us, and hopefully leading to its collapse.
When there's something negative posted about one of the 2 US fascist parties there's invariably at least one comment saying:
Watch out, these are RuZZian bots trying to sow division!
They really are far gone. McCarthy would be proud
Wild stuff
You moralizing about what is essentially an uncontrollable phenomenon, is serving the narrative of the opposing side. Nobody is in control of a riot by definition. All kinds of shit is gonna get fucked up. Focusing on individual incidents is falling into a trap that the ruling class lays for a credulous audience.
I didn't say they weren't. I'm just saying that your observation is, at best, pointless, and at worst, serves the state's narrative.
People plundering stores are very much in control of themselves, give me a break. I don't blame anyone else for those actions than those who commit them.
I hate when people pull out this stupid straw man argument, "Think of the poor small businesses". Small businesses in this country are all but non existent at this point, most of them have been forced to close their doors thanks to big chains like Walmart and Target. The closest we have to small businesses in most areas are franchisees from the big chain fast food restaurants.
Sorry, I thought this was relating to the French unrests. There is no Walmart in France. Have a look at the shops that were destroyed and then count how many of them are large chains and how many were local businesses.
"all but non existent"
Where in the US is that true?! The worst city in America for chain stores can't quite hit 3 of 4. Almost every state has better than half of stores in the hands of small business.
https://merchantmachine.co.uk/us-independent-stores/
"all but non existent"
Where in the US is that true?!
https://merchantmachine.co.uk/us-independent-stores/
Eh, small businesses come in all sizes. There's a dude in town that owns ~100 houses and rents them out. He's a small business owner.
So is the Uber driver that delivers food to those houses.
That man is enough of a landlord that a molotov cocktail is probably justified in some way shape or form. That dude is part of the petit borgeousie for sure.
The guy driving for Uber and getting paid by them as his employer is not a small business owner. He's a poor proletariat schmuck just like most of us.
On paper both are small business owners.
Most truckers are, too.One sixth of truckers are, too.They're not. They're not at all. What do you think a small business owner even is?
Someone that owns their own income generating property. I.e., a business. Which is small. Local definitions put that at either <500 employees or <7.5m operating revenue.
I was wrong though, only ~16% of truckers are small business owners. They're the ones called "owner operators". Because they own their own truck.
Technically, anyone filling out form 1099 come tax time is a small business owner.
Well at least you know now why a Doordash or Uber driver is decidedly not a small business owner.
If you own 100 pieces of residential real estate, you're aren't a small business, lmao.
Edit: also, uber drivers aren't small businesses
I'm sure that guy that got kicked in the back of the head and has his video game store robbed gives a shit anymore and probably never will.
The business have insurances, and actually don't loose at being attacked. Many even benefit of the insurance to renew their shop in a more modern way ; it is at the point police sometimes even doubt the shop owner may have asked to be a target. It can also be a good time to burn accountancy documents when some were a problem, and destroy those stock of merchandises they knew they could not sell (so insurance pay for them).
Yet for some it is a real moral pain to see their shop looted, of course...
That's why all the small business owners are chiming in to cheer when their shops are torn to pieces and burned down!
Do you even hear yourself XD
Most of the times they find it boring, yes. Yet do you know one that has really lost something after the death of Nahel? In my town most burnt shops reopened fast, renewed, and more attractive than before.
And I can't remember any casualties for shop owners, beside those who got caught trying to hide the bankruptie of their company as a riot burning (for insurance). Do you know some that had real (unsolved) problems because of riots?
The French need rooftop Koreans. :)
As much as I like the roof Koreans, they would get firebombed if they were in France, the reason they worked in America was because Americans are pussys and when legit confronted with violence, they piss their pants and run away.
Won't speak for you, but I'm not getting close enough to toss a Molotov cocktail at a man in an elevated position with a long gun. 😬 (Seriously, reread your comment and think out how that would work IRL.)
In a city envorment with tons of cover? see your clearly not thinking past your fear responce.
They need guns and a super Mario brother
::: spoiler pretend i have the digital image editing skills to combine these please:
::: spoliered because holy fuck that took up a lot of my screen
What makes anybody think an American who condemns the looting in France approves of everything that's wrong in America?
Boot lickers tend to lick boots.
Spot on!
More like people acting like idiots confusing protesting for looting.
My only concerns and areas I consider off limits really are pharmacies and medical supply stores, medical places. Thinking on it a bit and ruminating, I can accept small businesses being looted if it provides incentive for the person to be upset with the state as well instead of the protests.
May I ask why you draw the line there?
Because people, especially those rioting, are dependent on the medicines that such establishments provide. I thought the idea was don't fuck with the firefighters and paramedics. I would have thought it extends toward those.
It's mostly been luxury stores that have been looted (at least from the reporting).
They should make sure to stop buy your house and loot it just to make sure you get the point 🙄
Yeah, most people think "wow, that guy has a great point, I never thought of it that way" when looters burn down their livelihood.
Oh, poor corporations!
What are you, some oligarch boot licker? We are descending into authoritarianism and you are endorsing oligarch talking points to discredit movements for reform.
I'm still unconvinced, maybe you should light my car on fire, it's probably insured, that'll convince me your cause is righteous!
Wow, that guy is burning down people's livelihoods. That's a great point, I never thought of it that way. Destroying private property is awesome. Thanks to this french contemporary looting artist I saw on TV, I realized I don't have any property and I don't give a shit when the bourgeoisie loses theirs. He really moved me.
You'll make a fantastic Republican some day, you already got the empathic rot done with!
No empathy for the bourgeoisie.
USians don't even wanna do a mass strike let alone march in and remove the people causing so many people to die and put them out of everyone's misery. Bunch of moaning little self righteous PC ego trippers.
propaganda is done its work to make people not protest to be honest as one. Also the republicans dont protest at all, because they believe in hierachy so they dont like ruffling the feathers. and people are still being paid based on thier job/fields high enough to not become upset over.
Yup, so many people cam out of the wood work to point figure at Germany when their nazi party won one Provence, not the whole country, a PROVENCE. Many libs on here are hypocrites looking to point fingers because deep down, they know their efforts are weak.
Small amount of looting? That has absolutely destroyed the livelihood of some of the small shop owners while also negatively affecting the local economies for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, mansions, multinational offices, and banks, y'know, the ones belonging to the supposed oligarchs pushing the ever-diminishing standards of living have remained untouched.
Face it, the protests have been hijacked by criminal opportunists with the barest facade of an excuse, and far from it being just "USians" condemning it, now every far-right social network in every part of the world pushed into the feeds by their respective Musks is taking advantage of the mayhem to associate it to their opposition and to top it off with a heavy dose of racism. Seeing Paris burned down by people who are students in facade only (and it's easy to tell the rioters from the students actually protesting) has absolutely fed the growth of the far right across multiple countries while doing little to economically help anyone but the looters who help themselves.
You'll need to point out which small shops were looted, because from what's been reported, it's mostly luxury boutique stores.Nevermind, I saw the links you provided. Super unfortunate for the small shop owners
but also because msms are only choosing to show looting and framing it as the worst thing that happened.
Once more, only insurances lost some money. Shopowners will be fine. Their shop will be renewed with insurance money. It is not the first time such happens, last was about a year ago...
Maybe it will be renewed, maybe it won't. Maybe they weren't insured or maybe their claim will just be rejected. Anyway it sucks big time for those who had their property destroyed even if they get back every euro.
Not insured for such? I am not sure if it is possible here, but it would be totally stupid. The only cause of rejection would come from proof the shopowner was at the initiative of looting and burning (which is rarely the case, but happens).
That's not how insurance works. It covers only a small part of the losses, and only for the shops that can afford the rising rates for a decent one.
Which shop hasn't been covered by insurance after Nahel's death?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaheenajanjuhajivrajeurope/2026/10/19/big-names-will-recover-from-frances-riots-family-shops-may-not/
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2026/10/19/theres-nothing-left-french-businesses-count-the-cost-of-a-weekend-of-unrest/
https://www.euronews.com/2026/10/20/frances-riot-damage-doubles-who-will-pay-for-thousands-of-wrecked-shops
Ironically enough, the big multinational shopping centers will be the ones most likely to recover. Half the businesses lacked loss of activity coverage, and there were plenty of them that had to wait half a year or more for any payout. Thinking there were no bankruptcies is ignorance beyond belief.
Just because you don't see or care about owners having to pass down their businesses and just treat them like faceless stores doesn't mean they aren't forced to roll over. It's like claiming who cares about riot police being violent with protestors when they can just go to the hospital.
You know how the economy is, and you are choosing to victim blame the riot victims if they are "stupid" enough not to be able to get back on their feet, no matter if they have literally nothing to do with what the protests are supposedly against. Just don't be surprised when your rationale ends up with those shops eventually ending up in the hands of the large multinationals that can survive it and the society becomes even more dystopian.
I live in France, in a working class/poor side of town. During last riots (2023), some shops got looted and burnt, some only looted (and some fully spared). They were not multinationals, just local shops. All of them got rebuilt and renewed, or reimboursed of the stolen goods. None has closed. I care about them, they are the shops where I buy things.
I may check what international news say in their analysis ; but understand that it is not that easy to believe this time will be very different from the previous one, while the previous one was already as the one before it.
And no, violence toward humans isn't the same as stealing from a shop, nor violence against goods. Should some hurt, even lightly, a shopowner, it would be a big thing in my opinion. Violences against material things aren't that important, some may not be smart nor usefull ; some can be helpful for the cause.
Also, keep in mind that since at least 15 years, in France, the gouvernment won't try to listen the people if there are no huge damages. So you may hate it, but that has became a rule. When a pacific dialog was possible, there were no riots here, just peaceful manifestations.
You're this close, keep trying.
And yet nobody seems willing to acknowledge that America has just turned out a fourth largest protest in the nation's history over the last two years, mobilizing tens of millions of people with no significant reports of violence or looting.
I guess it doesn't count when organizers successfully create a peaceful environment that doesn't play into the hands of the fascists in our government who are looking for any excuse to enact martial law and suspend elections to establish their total and complete authority?
What does that large protest do, though? In what way does it pressure the state to enact change? A large amount of people asking nicely doesn't make fascists decide to no longer be fascist - at best all you can really do with it is spread your message to more people. It took more than peaceful protests during the civil rights movement, and our state still is systemically discriminatory against minorities.
America is a vastly different country now versus what it was during the civil rights movement. If Nixon got ousted for Watergate, imagine how short Trump's presidency would have been had he taken office in that era.
Our government today is not aligned with the interests of the general public. It serves the interests of a small subset of the populace and rallies broader support through authoritarian action against a propagandized enemy.
The reality is that this government will not be influenced by any protest we can realistically organize. Despite our 2A rights, the state has far more power than its citizens possess in arms. Economically, too many Americans are either too beholden to or dependent on the system to endure a general strike. A violent protest will turn the general public against the movement and give the state an excuse to crush dissent and make themselves out to be the hero.
These large, peaceful protests are not intended to directly influence the state to change policy but rather are designed to invite the public into a safe space with their neighbors and community where they are more receptive to the idea that we are oppressed by the system this state perpetuates and how we can realistically enact change. The midterms will be a measure of how effective this movement has been.
Not saying it's perfect but it can help spread the word for voting purposes.
Lmao, well goodness, it's a good thing you guys didn't upset anyone during your parade, you wouldn't want the government to act lawlessly and in an authoritarian manner!
Lol, the irony of your username.
And yours, lol.
Yes but that only matters if the government your under gives a shit about that sort of thing. You doing nothing as they round up 'illegal voters' is playing into the hands of fascists.
We had nationwide protests that turned violent with rioting and looting in 2020 under this same regime. It achieved no meaningful change but to turn public opinion against the movement. We're still recovering from the social trauma that caused and it's only given ammunition to the opposition. Portland, OR is still a pariah on the national scene due to the violence and looting that happened here in 2020 despite the last six years of adopting a more peaceful way of protesting.
The regime was unprepared for the violent response then but they are prepared for it now. A year ago they were doing everything they could to provoke a violent response, declaring blue cities as enemies within and deploying our own states' national guards against us. Our response was to turn out in large, peaceful numbers. It made this regime look foolish and they've since halted their deployment of the military against blue cities.
They need us to be violent so they can use it to turn the general public against us; and so we show up peacefully and "do nothing". As a result, they have no enemy to rally the general public against, their actions have no justification and public opinion of this regime is at record-breaking lows and is continuing to trend lower.
Because it only fell the mask for many Americans. Private property is more important to them than any amount of social improvement.
Keep being docile and keep licking those boots, that'll definitely show them who's boss.
it's a false dichotomy you are presenting. do you want to say any protests against pedophiles ruling the world will necessitate some people being looted, which is a sacrifice you are willing to make. can we not imagine a better world? can we not support the protests with full force while also condemning the looting?
It's not a false dichotomy because it's not saying that it's one or the other.
it's false dichotomy because it's presented as if people who don't tolerate looting must be excusing the rule by pedophiles and oligarchs.
I think it's a critique about the inaction and then the condemning more than the method of action.
Not to mention that the meme and it's sentence structure is following the script from the show, Community because that's how Brenda said it. So I'm not going to read too much into a meme
Please don't Britta Britta's name
I just pulled a Hawthorne! Dammit!
ITT, a lot of people unfamiliar with the meme. It looses something when it doesn’t include Shirley’s response.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-can-excuse-racism-but-i-draw-the-line-at-animal-cruelty