Spyke

Syndicated from the fediverse. Read and engage on the original instance.

View original on sopuli.xyz

105 replies

When I was in the kink community breath control was a big no-no. There's a significant enough risk of putting your partner in shock, and in the 1990s police were not very understanding of death by heavy erotic play.

Of course the US may currently be in the stage Russia was in 2011 (and still is) of YOLO high-risk selfies.

16

Yeah just huff nitrous during sex instead. It gets you the same pleasurable feeling (better, actually), and you won't fucking die from oxygen starvation.

3

Most people that I've met as well as myself and my partners don't actually do breath play of any variety. Just firm pressure applied to the sides of the neck, to reduce risk slightly. I understand it's still not a completely safe activity, but we're all consenting adults.

5
lemmy.blahaj.zone

So uh... For future partners' sake... What source do I redirect them to to make sure I don't suffer more brain damage than I'm sure I already have from other things... 👀

3

I don't have a source, but the idea is not interrupting airflow or blood flow to the brain.

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lemmy.curiana.net

Fun fact: choking during sex is the second most common cause of stroke in women under 40. Source.

When you cut off blood supply to the brain you start damaging it real fast. There are studies measuring blood biomarkers of neural injury and inflammation in women who report being chocked during sex and it's clear that choking causes brain damage. According do experts there's no safe way to do it. It's just another disturbing, violent trend popularized by porn.

161

Yeah if you're actually choking your partner you're doing it wrong

Lightly squeezing someone's throat during sex is choking only in name. You're not supposed to full on choke them out.

5

According do experts there’s no safe way to do it.

I always heard that you/your partner should squeeze the sides of the neck so that it gives the sensation of being choked without actually blocking air/bloodflow

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Zarobireply
aussie.zone

Reminder that any sexual choking is now illegal in Australia

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Cypherreply
aussie.zone

I can’t find a source that verifies your claim.

You might be thinking of the ban on strangulation in porn that was passed in the UK recently?

2
Cypherreply
aussie.zone

Though not broadly different from other State and Territory laws the legal firms advice that is linked in the article relates to NSW law and does not indicate that all sexual strangulation is unlawful.

Your claim, and the articles claim, regarding the legality of sexual strangulation is untrue on the grounds that sexual strangulation may be performed in a way that is consensual, does not result in harm, loss of consciousness or death.

It is not explicitly illegal according to Federal, State or Territory law.

2
Zarobireply
aussie.zone

Here's another one:

While the sexual practice was often consensual, Douglas said: “You can’t consent to death or really serious harm under Australian law … there’s that line that is very clearly drawn in strangulation law – and assault law more generally.”

Theoretically, if the stranglee never gets injured, and they don't tell anyone, then you might not get in trouble. However, since it has such a high injury rate, if they end up in hospital, you might face criminal charges. Even if they have a therapist and say that they are choked during sex, then it's a mandatory reporting thing at that level too. Just don't choke people lol it's extremely dangerous and legally risky

1

Just don't choke people lol it's extremely dangerous and legally risky

Advocating for abstinence is a losing strategy as noted in the article.

I’m not interested in sexual choking, though I do choke people out occasionally in martial arts training, I was interested only in the claim regarding legality.

2

Thankfully my wife is over 40, so it looks like we dodged that bullet.

99
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

Thank you for speaking up and posting this source. I know you and I haven't historically gotten on well, but I fully agree with you here.

25

Mfw I browse the fediverse daily and am aware of some of the conflict that has gone down between y'all. I am on Lemmy too much lmao

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lemmy.blahaj.zone

Why does it have to be about violence and porn? Talk about the dangers all you want but that shit just genuinely feels like crack. You get flooded with brain chemicals that feel euphoric. Focus on the important bits about the risks rather than applying stupid moral judgements.

25
lemmy.world

Ok but you do realize how comparing it to crack is not helping here right

Like I'm more than happy to also warn people to stay tf away from crack lol

10

I'm not disagreeing that it's dangerous, I'm saying the moralizing is unnecessary and pointless when it has real, addictive effects to focus on instead.

4
lemmy.world

The euphoria is from the hypoxia, I think. In which case, a similar high could be had by scheduling sexy times in an oxygen tent mountain climbers and endurance athletes use for training.

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ExLisperreply
lemmy.curiana.net

It has nothing to do with euphoria. From the source:

In 2021, a research team led by Debby Herbenick, provost professor at the Indiana University School of Public Health, interviewed 24 women aged 18 to 33 in depth about their experiences of strangulation during sex. Although, for most, their first experience had involved no prior discussion – including one who was having sex for the first time – the majority now viewed it as “routine and regular”. All believed it was safe, despite experiencing many physical reactions, including coughing, gasping, difficulty swallowing and breathing and vision changes. Some said they accepted being choked for their partner’s pleasure, even though they didn’t personally find it arousing. Others did enjoy it and sought it out as “adventurous” and “exciting”.

The paper notes that historically, autoerotic asphyxiation is rare among women and adds, “It is curious how sexual asphyxiation, which has long been described as predominantly engaged in by/for men’s arousal, has become so frequently enacted by men on women partners.”

Bows makes the same point. “What’s not being talked about is that this is happening overwhelmingly to women by men. If you accept what people will argue – that this is an activity that’s enjoyed because it’s ‘sensual’ – then why aren’t men the recipients more often? To me, it’s just another way we’ve culturally legitimised men harming women.”


It just keeps going like that. It's really wroth reading.

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protistreply
retrofed.com

"then why aren’t men the recipients more often?"

I'd be interested to know the source on this, because I know plenty men who are into this. Even in the paragraph prior it states, "sexual asphyxiation, which has long been described as predominantly engaged in by/for men’s arousal."

That said, full consent and knowledge about the potential long-term physical harm are absolutely critical

15
ExLisperreply
lemmy.curiana.net

It says "The paper notes that historically, autoerotic asphyxiation is rare among women". So it seams to suggest that before choking your partner became common it was mostly men to chocked themselves while masturbating. Now it's mostly men that choke women. It doesn't say it doesn't happen to men, just that women were not into it before and now it happens to them more.

13
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

I get what your saying

idk if you were trying to be funny or not, but:

You're*

5
arrow74reply
lemmy.zip

It's a very poorly written paper that is using generalizations without a proper source or study group.

A sample size of 24 to make these broad assumptions is frankly ridiculous

7
lemmy.blahaj.zone

This is such a crazy extrapolation to me, especially as someone who has had a girlfriend die from (EXTREMELY STUPIDLY) doing unsupervised breath play on herself.

4

The study didn't test that men did it more or not. They just asserted it without data to back it up

2
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

In 2021, a research team led by Debby Herbenick, provost professor at the Indiana University School of Public Health, interviewed 24 women aged 18 to 33 in depth about their experiences of strangulation during sex. Although, for most, their first experience had involved no prior discussion – including one who was having sex for the first time – the majority now viewed it as “routine and regular”. All believed it was safe, despite experiencing many physical reactions, including coughing, gasping, difficulty swallowing and breathing and vision changes. Some said they accepted being choked for their partner’s pleasure, even though they didn’t personally find it arousing. Others did enjoy it and sought it out as “adventurous” and “exciting”.

The paper notes that historically, autoerotic asphyxiation is rare among women and adds, “It is curious how sexual asphyxiation, which has long been described as predominantly engaged in by/for men’s arousal, has become so frequently enacted by men on women partners.”

Bows makes the same point. “What’s not being talked about is that this is happening overwhelmingly to women by men. If you accept what people will argue – that this is an activity that’s enjoyed because it’s ‘sensual’ – then why aren’t men the recipients more often? To me, it’s just another way we’ve culturally legitimised men harming women.”

Here is the Guardian article that ExLisper already linked.

Here is the paper that the Guardian references.

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lemmy.dbzer0.com

I get what your saying, but I think a lot of women do enjoy it for MANY different reasons, most unhealthy. I am one who enjoys it, so there is that-

4

No one is saying that there's no women that enjoy choking. I still wouldn't say it's a lot of women.

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protistreply
retrofed.com

I don't understand why you're quoting the same thing to me that I responded to?

3

I put the links under the quote to both the article and the original paper.

You asked for the sources.

4
lemmy.world

OK but what if I really like being choked a little

Not that I'm under 40. Or a woman.

5
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

It's like any other risky behavior - there's still a risk, but ultimately it's up to you if you want to risk death in pursuit of orgasm.

Haha people get so pissy about reality - I'm a domme and engage in some choking, but have strict rules around it. It is silly to pretend there's 0 risk to choking. Be informed and get consent.

4
lemmy.world

Just a little throat clenching, not enough to get fuzzy, just enough to make breathing a bit harder, and to remind me that I'm her property

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lemmy.blahaj.zone

maybe some people like having their brain shut off somewhat, and that's actually the entire point? maybe not everyone likes being hyper-aware of everything all the time?

-2
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

Liking it doesn't take away the risk. There's a lot of things we do in life that have risk, but we still do them for various reasons.

By all means, enjoy the thrill! But educate yourself and be aware that there is no completely safe way to choke or be choked. And of course always get consent.

23

From what I'm reading there's no "risk" involved: it's just harmful. Risk implies it can be done without any harm, but harm is more likely than not. Smoking cigarettes isn't risky behaviour it's harmful behaviour.

6
Shayetareply
feddit.org

I believe their question was WHY do people enjoy it. Which I'm also curious about.

1
lemmy.blahaj.zone

A couple of reasons. First, from a submissive perspective, it's a really vulnerable point of the body that can be used to wrest away control. You don't even need to choke for that feeling. If you don't understand why the feeling of helplessness can be sexy, you just won't get this one. Second, there's a chemical induced euphoria that happens during the act of choking and explodes immediately after that, at least for me, is comparable to an orgasm but NOT an orgasm. It's especially potent the moment you stop throttling the blood flow to your brain.

The thing is, choking isn't about cutting off the air flow. Doing that by hand sucks so bad and HURTS. The pleasure comes from pressure on the artery and it happens quick.

3
Shayetareply
feddit.org

Interesting. Thank you, that was very informative!

2

My comment still stands. Some people like it, whether it's because of porn or not, but it's really important to know that it is never safe to do.

8

I don't think people do. The behaviour probably stems from a desire/need to satisfy their partner. Pavlovian conditioning probably plays a role too.

0

Within kink it you aren't learning the basics of the risks of something before doing it you aren't following either of the dominant models of how to properly engage. Safe Sane and Consensual demands you learn enough to confirm something is safe (most people consider choking incompatible with this model). Meanwhile Risk Aware Consensual Kink demands you make yourself aware of the risks before consenting.

I get wanting to turn your brain off. I love subspace in part because it shuts my brain off. But going into something in kink without doing your due diligence is how you risk getting seriously injured. I play with fire and electricity, but consider choking too dangerous for me.

If I found out someone who told me they had plenty of experience bottoming for electricity (and thus I didn't give the safety spiel) didn't understand that it can fuck with implanted electronics and can be fatal to people with pacemakers (very basic safety knowledge for estim), it's unlikely they'd ever be able to convince me to play with them again. I'd just consider them to be too reckless.

BDSM is dangerous at times. It's fun as all hell, I fucking love it, but it has dangers. You need to use your brain first so you can decide how you're comfortable turning it off.

7
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

Unfortunately, there is no truly safe way to choke. It's always a risk. But please, please do look into it before choking anyone and always get consent first.

I also have a rule that no choking is allowed if the people involved are under the influence of anything. It's too risky.

35
lemmy.world

"Never drink and dom" was the one we learned, right after "safe, sane, and consensual".

16
hypnicjerkreply
lemmy.world

choking is pretty firmly outside of the ssc framework because it cannot be done safely. if you want to practice sexual asphyxiation, you're looking for a risk aware consensual kink model.

9
Cypherreply
aussie.zone

I’ll have to tell everyone at the BJJ gym that choking someone out can’t be done safely, they clearly aren’t aware given they’ve been doing it daily for decades

1

aside from the obvious that every one of them likely do have some amount of damage from oxygen deprivation, it's the kind of risk profile that is inherent to extreme physical training, not inherent to consensual sex.

1
arrow74reply
lemmy.zip

According to the WHO you also cannot safely drink a single beer

4
dropdripreply
lemmy.ml

That's correct. Alcohol is a poison.

2

Unfortunately I don't understand; it tastes overwhelmingly foul to me. I do understand it does something for some people, but I can't share in it. I get no pleasure from it. I can write similar things for asphyxiation.

2
lemmy.dbzer0.com

This highlights a big flaw in the golden rule: people want different things

35

There are a lot of commonalities regarding what humans generally want for the non-specific ethics of reciprocity to be useful.

Even more so, what humans don't want.

Or, for that matter, what non-human entities want. Thanks to the collapse of the rule of law at the federal level, businesses who can't afford access to Trump are abandoning the US if they can't pay the expected tribute to Trump, or can't get in his good graces on ideological grounds. It turns out companies like an economy in which the rules are consistent for everyone.

1

Perhaps unsurprisingly this has been a thing in philosophy of ethics for awhile now. Copper rule gang rise up!

Copper Rule:

Do (or don't do) unto others as they would (or would not) have you do unto them

Basically treat people how they want to be treated.

23

This is exactly what happened to me. I had never been choked, nor had I ever choked someone. Was making out with girl, she was on top of me, and then started choking me. I was so confused and horny. Eventually asked her about it and yes, that is what she wanted done to her. Like Jesus, just say so.

34
fedia.io

people into choking want consensual choking.

this was anything but.

28

TIL: When people refer to choking during sex, it's actually choking.

I thought it was just called that way, in a similar way to "choker" being a close-fitting necklace, just lightly pinning down someone by their neck. Not strangulation.

25
Funkt4st1creply
lemmy.world

Some people definitely want just like a hand necklace, gentle, no pressure. A LOT of people want to actually asphyxiate. My wife, for example.

This distinction has caused much confusion. Safer to assume the first option.

Btw you should tipi your hand a bit so they dont like, actually die. Were here to have fun and all.

24
velmareply
sh.itjust.works

That can also cause damage, just FYI. There's a lot of invisible damage that can happen to the delicate tissues of the neck and throat.

22

Yeah, I'm somewhat experienced in kink irl (been pretty involved in scenes for most of my adult life and have been an edge player in some form for a lot of it) and choking is way more dangerous than people think. People will point to blood choking (squeezing the arteries at the side of the neck) or air deprivation as the "safe" way to do it, and yes, they're safer than windpipe choking, but any time you are depriving a brain of fresh oxygen to the point it's noticeable there is a chance it will cause permanent damage. For anyone who's interested in learning more Jay Wiseman is the traditional go to on this specific topic.

Your body, your life, your decision what risks you take, but personally it's the only kink that the more I've learned about safety regarding it the less willing to take part in it I've been.

9

I do that to myseld with my poorly fitting work clothes xD

What kind if damage are we talking?

2
lemmy.blahaj.zone

hmm naw not like this, I'd rather like stroke their cheek all nicely and give them a kiss ~

16
pawb.social

Have you considered putting your hands around their neck and not choking them? It's very intimate

8
maria ~reply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

yeye I know that's also wonderful. Maybe a bit of movement, a small bit of light scritchies. yeah. mhm thats nice, makes me make sounds---

7
pawb.social

Yeye, it's the fun kind of possesive. Like "pay even more attention to me"

3

ummm maybe not necessarily, I'd like they to kinda shiver a bit, kinda maybe look away and mmmmh lean into it a bit and then!!! then I get to as "hmm baby, can u look at me?" aaaaaah yes <3 <3 <3 and and and once they do, I brush a bit firmer and go "thank you ~"

4
maria ~reply
lemmy.blahaj.zone

okay fine, bottom cheeks can also be fun and maybe nicer since usually one doesnt get tenderly touched there.

so maybe its extra soothing? hmm dunno... no I think that would just cause excitement more so than warm comfy feels. tracing someones back should be better for that.... maybe

6
fonix232reply
fedia.io

butt rubs are always nice

(also, my autocorrect tried to convince me not once, not twice, but three times that what I really want to say is "butt runs". which aren't nice at all!)

6

yeaaaaa i wanna rub someones --- areas and have them tingle all nicely yesssss that's it, that's what I want. kinda explore them, see what's good, what gets them twitching, what gets them leaning in ---------

enough Lemmy for today >v<

5
leminal.space

If the British government browsed Lemmy, they’d be very upset right now.

14

They'd be upset anyways since there are trans people and people who understand that Israel is doing genocide in Gaza here

12