The U.S. Government Quietly Just Made It Legal to Go Through Your Phone at the Border
An Appeals Court panel has ruled that federal agents can legally search through travelers' cell phones without reasonable suspicion, probable cause, or a warrant when they cross an international border.
https://lataco.com/phone-surveillance-borderOpen linkView original on lemmy.dbzer0.com
143 replies
Tbh I'm shocked it wasn't already. Like I thought the border has been a "no rights zone" for as long as I've been alive.
it seems like this a re-affirmation of it -- guaranteeing that it'll stay in the books for the rest of our lives
It doesn’t have to stick around any longer than Congress allows it to. Congress needs to grow some balls, pass some laws and put the courts in there place. Those dickhead justices aren’t elected and the congress is.
congress is in a permanent stalemate so long as we keep re-affirming our political dupoloy -- the supreme court will be our daddy from now on unless we can distract ourselves long enough from our phones to take note of how the mexicans got rid of their political duopoly in 2017.
and -- ironically enough -- they were able to do their thing because of the phones. lol
Yah I thought SCOTUS ok'd that within 100 miles of a boarder.
...
Seems not! Just lots of circut courts have affirmed the general idea. This is the first at an appellate court.
Regarding the 100 mile zone around the border:
and that number goes up significantly if you consider an international airport a "border"
I saw someone also mention "waterways" in another thread as being subject to this. If that means navigable rivers like the Mississippi, etc., then between coasts, land borders, airports, and waterways, it's probably most of the US.
That existing map is already probably 90+% of the population. But yeah, including those would get it to be most of the last mass too.
The article with that map claims 2/3 of the population. I think it could go to 90% if you included waterways and international airports.
What about embassies?
US embassies in other countries, or foreign embassies on US soil?
Yes.
I believe it also includes international airports in the orange area?
I don't know, the map doesn't display that.
Very telling that almost every state not part of that zone is a red state.
Lol Toledo but no Cleveland
My personal life is pretty damn boring, but regardless, every time I fly (even domestic) I wipe my phone beforehand and only keep emergency contacts.
Just create a fake profile with pictures of diseased cocks.
Border security very likely uses israeli tech to download your whole drive. Even if they don’t I assume they would at least hold you for questioning if you did make such a profile
Cellebrite. They don't even need to look through the phone if you unlock it for them they'll enable whatever settings they have to to download the whole thing. From there they build out associations based on your contacts, apps, social media, etc. Essentially they do what palantir does but a lot more direct, and skips the whole data brokers part.
No add trackers 🤣
Just budget for a cheap ass phone for when you cross the border and don't take your actual device with you. Or if you do take it with you when you cross, make sure that it is off during the entire transit.
I've never had them insist that I can recall, but I do remember reading, I believe in the TSA docs, that any devices are supposed to be powered on and able to be demonstrated to be working or something to that effect ... I guess to make sure it's not just a phone-shaped bomb or whatever.
Even if they have you powered on, the fact that it's in the before-first unlock state means that the file-based encryption still holds and it cannot be unlocked with biometrics.
This is true, but depending on the phone model and processor type, there are still exploits that can bypass bfu state
Mmm, good point
Makes a little more sense when you consider Israel's pager bombs.
and when you consider the surveillance state. security from "terrorists" is a great excuse, up there with protecting the children.
No it doesn't. Those were fully functioning devices with a maliciously modified battery with zero extra footprint.
They just ask you tonpiwer it on. Did it for a laptop once.
Only time I've ever had an "electronic" device checked like that was at an airport in Europe about 15 years ago (if memory serves me right, I think it was CDG in France). I had a DSLR with a couple extra lenses and they asked me to turn on the camera and take a picture with each lense attached. They also asked to view through the viewfinder with each.
They can boot it to the password prompt and shut it down again.
I held on to my old phone when I last upgraded just for this reason. If I ever need to travel internationally in the next few years, that's the one that's coming with me. And as much as I'd like to bring my steam deck for travel entertainment, that's staying home too.
Registration walled. Anyone happen to have the full text?
Archive link: https://archive.is/mEIkV
I have a question.. there’s data on my phone and other devices that are protected under an active NDA. I am legally obligated to prevent disclosure of that information.
So.. what happens then?
> agree to do corporate espionage for company A
> get a job at company B, sign an NDA, put all their sensitive data on your phone
> have your buddy get a job with the CBP
> cross the border, "oops, I guess he gets to look at my phone, what can I do?"
> buddy doesn't have an NDA so he tells company A what he saw then splits the money with you
> profit??
An NDA is just a contract, an actual law always trumps it.
You refuse to let them search and they dont let you into the country.
No, you're not. Encrypt the device and turn it off.
And if they ask you to unlock it, you just say no and it all goes fine?
They hold you for a few hours and make a bunch of vacant and vague threats.
Then, yes, they release you.
A few court rulings from now and I won't be surprised if they'll start indefinitely detaining people or using "enhanced interrogation"
It depends if you're a citizen or not.
That's merely how is starts.
Turn it off before crossing. They may ask you to power it on, which you may comply with. In my experience, biometrics don't work after a fresh boot and the device password must be entered before biometric unlocking works.
That prevents them from getting into your phone, but probably prevents you from getting across the border too.
Encrypt all your real devices and use a dummy phone to cross. If you get questioned, give lawyer contact info and say nothing else
Might sound extreme, but unironically everyone should do this
The lawyer is for you, not them. Just prepare to say "no thank you. Am I free to go now?" for a few hours. Don't say anything else.
No. Even the guy who used the duress password to wipe his device was allowed through the border.
They will use psychological pressure and make you wait hours, but they will let you through, even if you stand your ground.
This was already the legal case. I'm confused what changed. This was okay legally for international travel anyway because borders are not considered protect it by the Constitution. I'm so confused. What's different?
People are just clueing in to how bad it's actually been since 9/11.
It was gray. The used the concept of being outside of US jurisdiction to skirt the laws on illegal search and seizure. Somebody pushed back on this recently, so they made it less gray.
ohhh! ok. thank you so much.
Well that's convenient, now they don't have to do it illegally anymore.
I don't know if any phones have this, but on a PC you can set up multiple partitions and have the password you entered determine which is logged into on boot. Then if the ICE brownshirts demand to see your sick memes, you can show them a boring install with some basic apps, instead of the install where you're informing the denizens of the interwebs that Trump raped kids and the entire GOP is covering it up.
The brown shirts just clone the whole drive and hand it to the egg heads.
I'm hoping the brownshirts aren't smart enough for that, but you may be right.
Android has this: every OEM calls it something different, but it’s called something similar to second space. iPhones don’t have it at all unfortunately.
They can already snatch your phone beat you the fuck up and slam your bloodied face into the face recognition until they've got your device unlocked. I mean whatcha gonna do when they're peeling your fingernaips apart and screaming at you to blurt all your secrets. No shitty amendment gonna protect your fragile meat ass.
They can have the duress pin.
Thats already getting ppl arrested
He was allowed through the border, is currently living a normal life outside of jail, and has so far not been convicted since years ago.
Isn't it still working through federal court? That's not a trivial thing.
Sure, but he's not locked in a cage right now.
And I'm actually optimistic. Currently we have strong legal precedent that the government cannot force you to reveal your encryption credentials. We do not have precedent about the use of duress passwords. It could happen that the courts rule, as before, that they can't prove the person didn't accidentally type the duress password by mistake.
It would be great to see a win legalizing the use of duress passwords.
I can't imagine being optimistic about anything in the US.
It can also happen that they make new precedent that compels people to disclose passwords because it's more useful to their surveillance and border control regime.
Nothing is impossible, but that's highly unlikely. We have loads of prescient against this, nationally and constitutionally.
One person. And just in Amerikkka.
And then get arrested. Land of freedom baby.
And that's why I no longer go there.
Don't use biometrics. Use a duress password.
Cryptography works.
Anyway I prefer to suck at my ellbow before visiting the US.
With protesting and dissent nearing illegality, It's no longer safe to have password managers, browser history or social media on your phone. (at borders for now)
I see a lot of people saying just shut it off. They will turn it on, tell you to unlock it, you refuse, they'll detain you, try tools to bypass, confiscate it (you need to make sure you get a receipt) and they'll let you out without it at some point. Even citizens can get detained for periods greater than 24 hours.
If you express any public dissent toward the administration, you should consider traveling with a dumb phone or a burner, not connected to your email/social online services/password systems.
I had not considered the risk of having a password manager on my phone and being cohered to unlock it. There's nothing dissentious there to find so I'm not concerned about that (don't infer from that that I think it's acceptable that they can look, I do not). But what's to stop them from stealing financial login info while they're at it? That's the worry that just triggered.
Traveling with a dumb phone isn't always viable. A recent example I can think of is I had to scan a QR code and fill out a customs form on a website. There was not a paper based alternative. But a burner works.
Yeah, that and actually taking decent pictures. If you just need a function, you can get non-flagship Android burners really cheap, or just keep a previous phone, wipe it, and travel with an eSIM.
My primary concern isn't so much what i'm saying now, but what they think about it later if we keep heading toward darker times.
Cheap phone + nice camera is another option. But with the downside of more to pack and carry around.
... yeah that feels entirely possible. Valid concern.
In the early 00's there were a few nice cameras with a 3x zoom that would fit in an altoids tin.
I think most of the current crop of micro cameras are toys :(
You also have to provide all your social media handles when applying for a visa. Even a tourist visa so they can check if you ever posted anything negative about the US or it's leader.
What if we all start giving them the same handles?
Just give them a second facebook account filled with thousands of images of MLP porn.
Or a youtube channel with dozens of variations of the "Most annoying sound" scene from Dumb and Dumber with the screeching repeated for hours and hours.
MLP?
my little pony
I am [email protected]
Is it a requirement to be on social media, to enter the us?
Leave your phone at home, back up all the important data you need into a server. Keep all important information and documents you need for the trip printed on a paper.
Go through border without a phone, buy new phone and SIM abroad to avoid roaming. Access/download your important info through the internet using the hotel's wifi.
After the trip you can bring the phone home and it will only contain some holiday photos.
Don't buy the phone anywhere near an embassy or airport. Pay cash. Don't give your name or ID. Reinstall the OS immediately after taking it out of the box. Setup FDE with a strong passphrase. Don't use biometrics.
So anywhere within 100 miles of a border or international airport.
That's basically anywhere in the us
As if there weren't enough reasons already to avoid visiting this shithole country.
So bits are considered a controlled substance now?
Sure, but not encrypted bits.
So… traveling outside the US and think you want back in… break out that old phone and keep it effing clean for travel. Actual phone goes in to safety deposit box.
The land of the free eh?
Not any more, kids.
Liberal democracies are rare because they are so challenging to maintain.
Very telling that USians are being Berlined and the reactions here are pretty mild. At least in Berlin they had communism inside. In the US is just a hellscape of late stage capitalism.
Never going anywhere near that border.
I'll never be traveling to the US again. Lots of better places for this Canadian to spend his money.
Just disable the biometric unlock features. The password method still requires a warrant.
What happens if you forget the password?
No. They cannot compel you to decrypt your disk with a warrant. Because they can't prove that you remember the password.
Bad advice.
Encryption on a smart phone is much better.
So they can see everyone you call and hear your whole conversation?
Yeah, in many countries that metadata targets your for assassination. Better to not use a dumb phone with no encryption.
If you use a Sim card on a smart phone, you're doing it wrong. Phone calls should be made (with e2ee) in Signal, Matrix, Wire, SimpleX, etc.
That's a hassle. They won't find anything they'd be interested in while searching through my phone. Because I am a fairly boring man (and I'm cool with that). But I don't agree that they should have the right to do so in the first place, and I do travel fairly frequently so this is a concern.
I guess I can get a burner and create a separate password database that just has stuff I know I'll need to use while traveling (like airlines and rideshares). And memorize ones that I don't want them having access to, like my email account (makes password resets a risk) and bank accounts.
Nice thing for me is I already have 2 phones. I get a phone stipend for work so I can keep my sensitive personal stuff and my sensitive work stuff on separate devices. I work in the public sector, so it's especially important because of Open Records stuff.
But it also means that if I'm going on vacation out of country, I can just take the work phone that's already sanitized.
I actually have a separate work phone too. Jealous that you get a stipend for it. Mine is just a older phone with no sim card. Mostly sits in my home office. Connect it via hotspot when I'm out and about during work hours or am oncall.
No reason I can't repurpose it as my travel phone when needed like you do. That'd be pretty easy.
At least I'll know which of my three phones to keep in pocket (I've got a Pixel 9a running GrapheneOS, iPhone 13 and Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM).
Hand over the Lumia and border patrol will be "wtf is this"
I thought I was being original picking Nyan Cat as my profile picture for this platform.
Oh well, we're siblings now I guess. :D
Seems like you need to travel with a burner phone now?
It’s not enough. We leave such a large digital footprint anymore, it’s not hard to connect everything and everyone together. They almost certainly have some pretty crazy technology that we don’t even have access too as well.
The bigger thing here, is this is a supposed first world country using your personal information and communications to intimidate and threaten you. Heck to even imprison you. That’s third world country tinpot dictator-like behaviour.
As someone who lives in a third world country, no third world country gives a damn about what's on your phone. The police only care if you make a scene in public (or publicly post something spicy) and somebody complains.
By what measure is the US a first-world country?
Absolutely zero, anymore.
This is the shit i warned if Trump got elected in 2024 = basically the end of the democratic experiment. We brought this shit onto ourselves.
Nothing new, I thought they can read your phone going through an airport.
https://mendozafirm.com/faqs/can-cbp-search-your-phone/
You're correct with circumstances. Prior to now, they used loopholes and lies that could be challenged.
They're now just openly allowed to without warrant or even suspicion.
And you can shut it down and refuse, but they can detain you, for quite some time if they want and they will likely confiscate your phone for untold periods of time.
You should also be aware that "border" extends to inbound/outbound international flights. So you could be subject to a border search at an airport that's nowhere near any physical border.
Not if it's off and encrypted with a strong passphrase
Reminded me of a video of Mutahar's where he was discussing about someone getting prosecuted as he gave grapheneos distress pin instead of his real pin when customs asked him for it. He was some activist or someone like that. US citizen in believe.
In thay video he told he'll wipe his iphone every time he enters the US and restore it from iCloud. Seems like this is one of the very few ways to defeat thia stupid law I mean what they gonna do if they find a clean phone? Arrest me for being way to clean!?
Thus they only have 2 options: A. Seize it and have the lab unlock a burner with nothing on it. B. Or they can just let it go. In either case they're suckers wasting their own time instead of yours.
Option 3: They just detain you until you hand over the password. You are allowed to call someone to retrieve it from your mail.
I can't unlock my phone. How am I supposed to call anyone?
I guess I'm old enough to remember calling people from other phones than your own
How? I ain't got any numbers memorised. They're on my phone. It's locked.
Then you're going to be detained for quite a long time.
I mean, it's the US, literally nobody expected otherwise. If they were unable to do it, they would invent something, or coerce whatever they need to, in order to do it anyway. They kill children daily, in so many ways already.
Remember to always turn off your phone before getting off the plane.
Which laws are we supposed to obey nowadays? It's all very confusing.
Restore to default settings before crossing international borders.
Please insert the border security probe.
Just today I wondered how long it is till americans
will need a VPN to watch YouTubeWhy would America (US, rather) ever want to restrict their citizen's access to one of their primary propaganda drivers? If you're in America, it's already necessary to avoid youtube directly and access it via frontends like invidious if you want even slightly decent privacy and to try to avoid being sucked into youtube's personally tailored algorithm. Though you may at some point need a VPN in order to access those (the frontends) if they aren't already outlawed. I can definitely see the US banning youtube alternatives like peertube instances, further restricting any kind of oppositional content on youtube itself, and enforcing strict identity requirements to access things on the internet, but they aren't ever going to make it difficult to access their state-approved slop troughs.
Because current administration copies what Russia is doing (I want to add China to the list, but have no experience, so for now omitted), and is now also run by a moron. That's how low I think of them governments of both countries
What you're missing is that youtube only shows what the US govt allows so there will never be a reason for the Us govt to block it. Google is to US as Gazprom is to Russia.
In the case of US citizens there is no need, there they know already the content of the phones
How hard is it to eject the SD card?
In a modern phone?
Sounds like a you problem.