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Pentagon refuses payout for soldiers who died in Iran conflict ‘because it isn’t a war’

The families of US soldiers who have died in the US-Israeli war against Iran are battling to ensure they receive appropriate pay and benefits for their loved ones.

Libby Klinner, a widow, wrote on social media that the US air force had deemed her ineligible for additional benefits following the death of Major Alex Klinner, her 33-year-old husband, because Congress had not officially declared war.

He was one of six crew members of a KC-135 refuelling aircraft that crashed in western Iraq in March while supporting US strikes against Iran.

Pentagon refuses payout for soldiers who died in Iran conflict ‘because it isn’t a war’https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/pentagon-refuses-payout-soldiers-died-135214171.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
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207 replies

I am not a fan of the military, but man, Hegseth and Trump are driving people away in droves with this kind of crap.

Oh well.

22
Kairosreply
lemmy.today

Yeah, this is NOT how you plan for a military coup

8
lemmy.world

He doesn't have to pretend he cares anymore after you can't do anything for him.

5

Maybe he put all the personal into a not war to be not in America?

1
lemmy.today

When Vance was asked about this at a press conference, he asked the reporter for the widow's contact information (because the Pentagon doesn't have it?), and assured that she would get everything she's entitled to.

What do you want to bet that she'll receive a visit from some military goons, who will tell her that she will get ALL that she is entitled to, which is NOTHING, because he didn't die in an official war, and if she doesn't shut the fuck up about it, she'll be arrested and deported to Africa for being an undocumented alien?

16

It’s an answer a junior customer service rep would give when they have no idea how the organization or any processes actually work.

6

The USA has become a sort of Simpsons/Black Mirror crossover episode.

4
madcaesarreply
lemmy.world

Military proceeds to vote GOP

At some point you have to lose compassion for idiots voting for the leopards party

17

40% of those in the military vote Democrat, do you have compassion for them?

Please recall that most voters voted for Trump, so anyone in any other nation could use your logic to not have compassion for you, the minority.

(if military are idiots because majority voted R, then you are an idiot because US majority voted R).

5

Military recruits predominantly lower income, under educated people and then proceeds to fall for Republican propaganda - it's like you sectioned off a control group and said "damn, why are they so control?"

2

Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make

13
piefed.zip

Think about the bright side: If all countries stop using the term "war", then we've achieved world peace!! /s

36

Well they've already tried making it a crime to say the US is losing in Iran. That's the old state trick to solving the homelessness problem...by making it illegal

4
lemmy.ca

That's how they avoid saying they haven't won a war since WW2.

7
Gaslovreply
lemmy.world

Iraq was a pretty clear military victory.

1
lemmy.ca

The war so nice they did it twice.

But it just lead to wider conflict and terrorism in the region.

9
Gaslovreply
lemmy.world

So Iraq being in disarray after defeat somehow implies the US lost the war against them?

And wider conflict? Do you think Iraq was some sort of peaceful neighbor leading up to its demise?

0
Gaslovreply
lemmy.world

Unfortunately for your hot take, Iraq signed surrender and the US executed their former leader. The US objectively won that war. I get it, in your mind victory or defeat hinges on whether you like the victor or not, but reality doesn't work that way.

But if it's any consolation, Iran also defeated Iraq and the US didn't take on Iraq alone. I personally don't believe Iraq was a worthy opponent for the US. But saying the US hasn't won a war since WW2 is factually incorrect.

0

The US kept bombing them and reinvaded, that doesn't sound like the surrender ended it.

3

The first time, yes. The second time proved what history has proven countless times. Killing a bunch of people with a big military is easy. Occupations are really, really difficult.

In its history, the US has only had 2 really successful occupations, (West Germany and Japan after WWII), and both of those were because they occupied nations were cooperating with the US and its allies.

2
lemmy.world

I don't know ... they followed the obviously illegal orders to go to war without congressional approval. They betrayed their oath to the constitution and favored Trump instead. Getting stiffed by Trump, as everyone expects of Trump, seems hardly something we should care about. Trump called them suckers, they chose to turn their backs on USA and follow Trump. It is of course sad when anyone gets hurt, but being willing participants in an unlawful and unjust war that is only about moving the stock market to make Trump rich ... when Trump has betrayed the constitution practically every day ...

19

You mean they were deployed when there was no war and then got bombed because a specific fighter jet followed orders. Most enlisted before trump.

0
lemmy.world

Although Donald Trump, the US president, has repeatedly called US military operations against Iran a war, he backed Mr Vanceon Friday, saying US strikes were "intermittent".

He said "A lot of people don't call it a war. I call it a military conflict, because it's small potatoes for us."

I can’t wait for this guy to shut the fuck up.

8
anarchist.nexus

You all elected a conman and then act surprised after being conned?

MAGA winning all over the place!

21
lemmy.world

Did you make it to the end where I said he was a shitty prez? Or did you just need to re-state the obvious?

-7

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

7
lemmy.ca

JD Vance gets asked about the widows case and he responds to the journalist "send me her contact info so I can discuss it with her" as if he isn't the second most powerful person in his country and already has full access to all of the info but doesn't care. If they have to start paying out benefits to dead soldiers it might become more clear how many service members have actually died.

There are likely more fatalities of American soldiers but they are hiding them behind mission secrecy.

21

He is always looking for another widow to befriend. Right, Erika?

5
piefed.social

I know people frown on “that other site,” but there’s an excellent, and sadly incomplete (I suspect), listing of all the ways The Idiot and his administration have gleefully fucked over veterans.

Reddit

18
lemmy.zip

I'm not sure pissing off the (still alive) people you trained to be killers is the best idea.

6
Eheranreply
lemmy.world

He has done so for years and they follow all orders to this day. So obviously no reason to stop treating them like shit.

1

That doesn't mean there aren't plans of a coup brewing. It would be a bad coup if we knew about it.

1
osannareply
lemmy.vg

Why? Not like they’re gonna coup this douchebag

1

We couldn't possibly know that. If we knew about them planning a coup, it would be a failed coup.

1

Somehow, we can afford to pay Mitch McConnell to take 3 months off, and hundreds of millions of dollars for Trump to play golf (with 50 secret service), but widow of dead soldier? That's where we draw the line

6

Since its inception, the US government has never liked paying soldiers for war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Mutiny_of_1783

Alexander Hamilton didn't even want to pay the IOUs back, until he decided that many were owned by investors that had bought them from soldiers. The quote was something to the effect of, "those investors are true Americans and they should get their money." The Dollop podcast has a good 4-parter on Hamilton that covers that and other issues.

11
Snowiesreply
lemmy.zip

Human history really is just a long convoluted story of class warfare isn’t it…

Why the fuck is it so hard for these absolute demons to just fucking share?

Is sharing really that bad? Is exerting yourself on others to spite their will really so addictive and so intoxicating?

… why?… I don’t fucking see it.

Why is power so delicious to some people? Why can nothing less sate their palates?

I genuinely don’t fucking get it. To me, a good gathering with good people and good food, and then to go home with a kind partner who genuinely desires me — is heaven on earth. A day with all of it is a day my heart is full and my chin is high.

What compels someone to look at that as though it’s some pittance, and the real prize is when ONLY YOU are allowed satisfaction???? Why do some people need others to suffer in order for them to feel pleasure?????????????????

2

Didn't this also contribute directly to the business plot and not wanting to pay an army of veterans camped on the front lawn of the Whitehouse?

1
MisterFrogreply
lemmy.world

Be careful what you wish for. The only revolution you want to have is lead by the working class (the vast majority), bringing everyone else along, in my opinion.

1

Well I don’t really want any violence, I want democracy to do its thing this November to peacefully force accountability.

Any actually revolution no matter where it comes from would be very painful and bloody and it would be great if it could be avoided.

1

Only if so many military personnel would not be MAGA... So not gonna happen.

4
lemmy.ca

Huh? Didn't know the Americans had that little clause. My SDB is paid out to my spouse regardless of whether I die in a war.

9

For Americans, something like the Servicemembers Group Life Insurance (SGLI) pays out regardless of how you snuff it but you have to be paying for that one already and you decide the level.

What they didn't pay out is combat pay, or "Hazardous Duty Pay" which is based on where you're deployed to. Since the person in question was Air Force though, and doing missions over various areas, that creates a situation where you can be deployed in support of combat operations but in a "friendly" area and not receiving combat pay.

Based on the article, they still got the last paycheck and other stuff, they just got a few hundred less for dying in support of Operation Protect the Pedophiles.

5

"A lot of people don't call it a war. I call it a military conflict, because it's small potatoes for us."

Apparently he has small potatoes 🥔🥔🤏

6

Why would it matter if we're at war or not?

It's combat and someone died as part of it.

6

That's so fucking cool! I am a part of a union that is voting to strike. I realize that some people have financial opportunities in going through the military. Fuck you. War machine. Your fault.

4

Its really fucked that the people who are serving who didn't vote for this clown are now suffering at his co-conspirators.

5
lemmy.zip

I'm responding to the article. The Iran War is illegal because it was not declared by Congress. Soft precedent that seemingly grants the executive runaway war powers it does not have does not make it legal.

1

That's bullshit. You know what else is bullshit? That the trumpstein files haven't been released. Innocent people do not try to hide like this and innocent people aren't named in the trumpstein files more than God is named in the Bible.

1

Reminds me of this:

An ex-convict gave horrific insight into serving in the Russian army, saying his officers refused to collect the dead bodies of soldiers from the battlefield so that the Russian military wouldn't have to pay their families, according to The New York Times.

In an interview, the soldier who served in one of the Russian Ministry of Defense's convict units — who was identified as "Aleksandr" — told the Times he was ordered not to collect the bodies of his fellow troops.

He told the Times that officers could register the men as "missing in action," meaning their families couldn't collect compensation for them being killed in battle.

One shitty dictator starting a completely unwarranted war doing the same thing as another shitty dictator running a completely unwarranted war.

149
Saledovilreply
sh.itjust.works

Give Putin some credit. He's doing this much more intelligently. He maintains a plausible pretense to not pay out death benefits while Trump just goes "No".

33
lemmy.ca

Because he knows Americans will roll over and accept “no” without a fight

2
lemmy.ca

And if anyone tries to fight it the MAGAts will fight on his behalf.

There's a reason Trump loves stupid people.

5
0x0reply
lemmy.zip

No no!
Russia bad, Murica good! You some kind of islamic or something?

-16
lemmy.world

Russia isn't "good" because you dislike the US. It's not and either/or thing.

9
lemmy.world

I've said it forever: Screwing over veterans is more American than apple pie. We've been doing it since the American Revolution.

I can't imagine President Pedophile being the one to change that. He doesn't even care enough to pretend.

107

He’s a draft dodger himself. They’re only pawns in his scheme to enrich himself and the capital class. It’s been the same with every president since WWII.

This is what happens when you prop your economy up on war and petroleum. You have to fight constant wars to maintain it. You have to keep heating up the planet until it’s unliveable.

The Great Depression proved that capitalism is a bubble that can’t sustain itself without constant exploitation of fossil fuels and the military-industrial complex. The second hit took place with the oil shortages and stagflation of the 1970s.

27
lemmy.ca

If it’s not officially a war, what happens if a combatant chooses not to engage?

I suspect they’d be court martialled as if it were refusing a wartime order.

89

They probably won't get paid which is the main reason they are there to begin with.

6
lemmy.world

... That might be the excuse they're using.

The reality is that they don't have the money because they spent it on bombing schools for young girls.

fuckers need to fuck right off to the fuckerville composting center.

74

Must be why they want to pump even more tax payer money into the un-auditable pentagon.

Ha, just kidding, we'll hand it out to cronies and make up some story because fuck those corpses' families

4

The reality is that they don’t have the money because they spent it on bombing schools for young girls.

It's tax payers money, they have plenty of these, they just use money for things that are directly useful to them

6
Ravenheartreply
lemmy.zip

I 100% agree. But also, some folks have little choice as it's the only path they have out of poverty. Could be their only chance for a decent education too.

Edit: I understand the backlash I'm getting. But I also realize that poverty produces desperation, and desperation can push people to extreme decisions. Easy for me to say "don't ever join under any circumstances" when I'm not the one suffering in extreme poverty.

3

I don't understand the backlash you're getting. It's not very surprising that a poor 18 year old sees the military as a way out of their hardship. I'm not saying it is, there's a very good chance it is not. But that a struggling teenager can see it that way, and getting drawn in by recruiters isn't odd.

100% agree with your edit. You'll see people used as drug mules, not because they're hardened criminals, but because they're desperate enough to do something they know is wrong.

I think a lot of the people taking a hard stance against you here haven't seen hardship up close and dont realise how tempting it would be to do something to get out of it

5

Lots of people here probably don't deal with poor people on the regular so they don't understand. Once I talked to a 40 year old homeless man on a train ride home and he was talking about enlisting. His options were very bleak.

3

Bro. If your only way out of poverty is to murder children, then stay poor.

Also, Americans don't know what poverty means. You're murdering people who are actually poor.

1

I grew up in an area where that was absolutely the case. A whole lot of people on things like food stamps and so on.

I don't have exact numbers, but I'd say at least one in four males (and not a few females) went into some branch of the military. They are promised a lot and most of it is not delivered.

My parents were pacifists and extremely suspicious of the industrial military complex, and did everything possible to keep the recruiters at bay, while they scrimped and saved and got loans for my siblings and I to get a secondary education or vocational training. They were not rich, but given they were both gainfully employed and very frugal, we were in a more stable home than most in my area.

Many kids did not even graduate, there was a fair bit of teen pregnancy, too. I have the same suspicion of the military my parents had, but I also understand that many of my school mates did not have a lot of options.

2
flandishreply
lemmy.world

the “have little choice” is just being able to shift guilt. we 100% know this is a genocidal fascist regime, and i have more support for someone who chooses to be gifted “life’s plan” of hardship over joining this mil.

fyi: this is the plan. the capitalists who profit from war know they can only profit if there is a cohort of poor, hungry, stupid kids they can use for the human parts.

28
lemmy.world

they can use for the human parts.

If you want people to take you seriously, you could make less childish arguments.

-21

explain how this is childish. machines like weapons require people to operate. it’s always been the working class and poor who are scooped up to operate them. “ain’t no war but class war” is not just a bumper sticker.

so: try your reply again.

17

Are you upset that you can't refute the 100% accurate point?

The troops are pretty much there to go kill or die for some billionaire's profits, and Smedley Butler said as much decades ago and it's only gotten worse since. Once they get the killer robots working, they'll cut out the troops and not have to worry about people complaining about pay.

14
chunk6235reply
piefed.social

I was when I was enlistment age, and I told the recruiter to go fuck himself when they came asking, and then to go find a squadmate to assist if he couldnt follow the directions himself when he didn't like the first answer.

I had enough combat vets in my life to know what was up. No glory seekers, only people who saw the brutality first hand.

14
lemmy.world

I was when I was enlistment age

So you had other means to escape poverty.

-2
chunk6235reply
piefed.social

I'd rather be poor than feed my body to the war machine. I'm not well off by any means, but that doesn't mean I don't have principles.

3

I too have always been poor, and had family members who were in vietnam. They told me truths.

I have always carried the idea, I can be poor, this is not a moral issue, but I refuse to carry myself without dignity. I can be poor, doesnt mean I have to be dirty, doesnt mean I have to sign my soul away for a dollar.

Good for you.

0

Are most people who join the US military? Answer: no, the contemporary US military is overwhelmingly middle class. The “backdoor draft” isn’t nearly as popular as advertised.

3
aussie.zone

Honestly, if it’s this bad, why is this put up with?

For a country that has spent so much time telling others how free it is, its citizens take a lot of shit

If it’s that bad, no point waiting around any longer, shut the thing down.

16
Tyrqreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

All you gotta do is tell people they're free.

Then you place them in freedom shackles, and give them freedom bucks to trade around inside their freedom cage. Why do you hate freedom so much, don't you like your freedom slop?

7
feddit.it

If the only path out of poverty is killing poor people abroad then I'd rather stay poor.

16

I don't care how poor you are, if killing people for corporate profits is your way out of it you're a shitty person.

If you want to find ways to justify killing people for corporate profits then you deserve to be singled out and told that you're a mass murder apologist.

How typical of Lemmy having to face consequences for you pro-murder takes.

2
Leviathanreply
fedinsfw.app

'No true Scotsman' but for poor people choosing not to kill strangers for corporate profits.

2

Becoming a disposable weapon of the state is still a choice, they still have blood on their hands, whether or not the game is rigged to coerce desperate people into becoming murderers or cannon fodder

13

Sorry i have to kill brown people. Some rape is expected, but i really didn't have a choice.

11
lemmy.world

The Israeli-US Alliance essentially murdered Iranian schoolgirls.

9
lemmy.ml

Sorry I had to serve in the SS cuz it was the only path I had out of poverty, for a chance at a decent education too, I 100% hate those Nazis please don't put us on trial 🥺

8

You're right, it's worse, the SS "only" massacred and tortured Europe, the US Military does it to the entire world, biggest stain on the planet since the Nazis.

10
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Id rather see them in poverty than more dead girls abroad. We should start spitting on their faces again.

You may not believe it, but dead nieces sisters and daughters also foments desperation and inspires violence. The sniper who develops ptsd because he killed three generations of men in because he had to do that or be a wage slave is a product of what republicans want. If that guy had a UBI and more socialism in general, guess what? He isn't ending three generations of men because he has literally no reason to do it now.

8

Sadly, there is no historical evidence that anyone ever spat in the faces of returning veterans, that’s just a scene from Rambo that conservatives decided was reality.

5
chewypoopsreply
lemmy.world

The military is never anyone's only choice out of poverty. The military is a career you choose. Just because you were in poverty when you made that choice does not mean you didn't have other choices.

6
wewbullreply
feddit.uk

Officer grades...sure.

Rank and file... Nah. Not if you want OUT of poverty.

2

TBH mostly middle class people join the military, and a lot of them end up homeless afterwards. Your conception of this situation is basically backwards.

3
Craccoonreply
lemmy.world

And claim they "support the troops" all the same.

19
lemmy.world

Congress can basically make "non wars" into wars for benefits.

OEF and OIF cover post 9/11 up to like 2010 in most of the middle east.

It could be fixed right now, but trump and the Republicans won't.

But the real solution has always been giving everyone the benefits disabled vets get

29
kent_ehreply
lemmy.ca

Congress could do a lot of things that they are refusing ro do.

2
lemmy.world

Because Republicans have both majorities and the presidency...

Our system sucks, but it used to be functional, and can be again.

Obviously one of the first things to do once it's functional, is improve the system and put in protections to stop this from happening again.

Like, everyone complains about the electoral college, but we could just get rid of it and make the presidency a straight popular vote. But the real problem, is a president was never meant to have this much power in the first place. They're supposed to be an essentially powerless ambassador.

No real power, just the person we said can speak on our behalf in situations where there's just a single seat at a table for America

1
kent_ehreply
lemmy.ca

one of the first things to do once it's functional, is improve the system and put in protections to stop this from happening again.

Agreed, that will be critical in trying to regain any level of trust from the rest of the world.

the real problem, is a president was never meant to have this much power in the first place.

Again, you have identified another of the issues that needs fixing.

 

Between fixing those issues and repairing all the damage Trump (and his acomplices) have done, the USA has decades of work to do.

I hope they are both willing and able to put in the effort.

1
lemmy.world

Between fixing those issues and repairing all the damage Trump (and his acomplices) have done, the USA has decades of work to do.

If you think that, you need to look back on how fast FDR fixed shit, and how the only thing that stopped him from doing more, is people not following up by flushing incumbents holding back progress.

Back then the average person didn't have the same outreach. Social media means people can actually organize and hear how things are going. That's why oligarchs keep gobbling up social media and flooding it with bots.

They're fucking scared.

2
kent_ehreply
lemmy.ca

Remind me in 6 years.

Based on the level of apathy I see from a majority of Americans, I don't expect much more than surface level changes (re-naming things back to their original names, de-trumping the white house decore etc) and little else.

I also don't trust that the Americans won't just elect another complete asshole 4 years after Trump is no longer president.

0
lemmy.world

Then you don't understand how bad the party was under neoliberalism from 1991-2025, and you just assume that was actually trying or that the party went in a different direction with the 2025 chair election.

Like, if you ignore everything, obviously it's not going to make sense.

If you pay attention to what happened and what is happening, you wouldn't spend your free time shitting on the best and only chance to save the country....

Unless you were a trump supporter or neoliberal despite to depress dem turnout to stop progressives

1

despite to depress dem turnout to stop progressives

I assume that was supposed to be "desperate".

That aside, I would much prefer the Americans elect a Democrat over a Republican, but I also would prefer the democrats put forward more progressive candidates than they have been.

0
FuglyDuckreply
lemmy.world

they don't even have the money for payroll right now.

So no, they really can't fix it overnight.

4
Rhaedasreply
fedia.io

But we can build ballrooms and arches and multiple attempts at a blue pool. Odd.

22

Because the other person is wrong. The US budget is basically a guideline and any excess gets carried to the next year.

6

Better that than benefits to mass murderers that is the US military in Iran (and Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam ..,).

1

Lol please. This president has proven he can do basically whatever he wants with allocated funds and neither Congress or scotus will stop him.

3

So they are eating slightly more healthy than someone eating boot soles as only meal of the day, they are being deployed for months without rest and they are dying in combat (or combat-related operations) BUT they are not at war so them and their families can't get benefits from it BUT ALSO they can't return home because they not at war but they are at war at the same time (which is not a war because the Congress didn't say so).

Are you trying to piss off the army and make the people with weapons turn against you? Because this is how you piss off the army and make the people with weapons turn against you.

24

Are you trying to piss off the army and make the people with weapons turn against you? Because this is how you piss off the army and make the people with weapons turn against you.

They're gambling that the American people, including the soldiers, are too atomised and too docile. Just like unions in other exploitative industries are becoming increasingly rare. I think they're probably correct, they ain't gonna do shit but accept it. You've gotta be constitutionally a bootlicker to join the military anyway. Those people don't have it in them to stand up for themselves unless it's "against" their wife and kids. Maybe you'll get an occasional guy losing it and shooting up his colleagues, the traditional way to do it.

23
0x0reply

make the people with weapons turn against you?

LOL that'd be the day.
You need critical thinking for that.

-2
lemmy.world

So are they going to rename the Department of Defense again?!

I can't fucking believe this. Well, i can because 🍊☝️

19

America doing a thing its done since its literal founding

libs: What are we a bunch of filthy foreigners??

1
lemmy.today

It's a really stupid idea to upset the military while they're on active duty. Well, America might get their first military uprising.

16
0x0reply

Well, America might get their first military uprising.

They're re-elected Trump. There won't be a military uprising.
They're the best country in the world, didn't you know?

0

"special military operation"

Being conducted by the "department of war".

4
lemmy.vg

so..... when are they gonna coup the orange turd stain?

12
lemmy.world

We have elections in two months that could greatly limit his abilities - he's gotten away with almost everything because the Republican controlled Congress lets him.

It's a lot more realistic than an imaginary coup.

3

The military enabled him by ignoring their oath to uphold the constitution and deploying against USA cities.

It's a major problem, because you know the military support Trump instead of USA. Arguably USA died already.

2

FYI, this is a midterm election that is coming up. The senators and representatives who will have been elected will be sworn in on Jan 2, 2027 in their respective chambers. Nothing significant to the constitution is scheduled for Jan 6. That's only in presidential election cycles.

8
zbyte64reply
awful.systems

They keep the masses poor and dumb so that they volunteer to play stupid games.

2

And by propaganda at sports events for their tribal minds, the same control mentality and punching down is common among those groups, sports, military, supernatural, maga, etc.

1

Smort move.. those who had guns died, no need to pay those who don'y have weapon or treats.

For those, who still have weapons...

4

He was one of six crew members of a KC-135 refuelling aircraft that crashed in western Iraq in March while supporting US strikes against Iran.

Scum of the earth may his family be deprived of all benefits.

-1

I mean yeah, maybe he wasnt a warcriminal before the marriage, but i think that just means she had very bad judge of character if she didnt notice what kind of person he was. Dont marry people that are willing to die for the oil lobby.

-1