solar panels have been used on communication infrastructure since 1960. for example telegraph wires and their respective later versions (copper cable, fiber optics cable, etc) because these cables often run through the middle of nowhere and need a small amount of continuous power to operate. so solar + batteries is the least-maintenace, highest-availability, cheapest option. nobody wants to travel 1000km into the woods to replenish a diesel generator.
--> electronics have been using solar panels since forever. this is nothing new.
If we just redirected all the solar energy from the flock cameras back into the grid we could power the average American home for 2 whole milliseconds!
Sometimes it's public entities, like city councils, or police departments. Othertimes, it's privately owned business, like Lowes, HomeDepot, apartment complexes, or even "communities" like HOAs. The point is that Flock is a private business, and only government affiliated when and where the government decides to do business with them.
This is in contrast to say, traffic cameras, owned by state DoTs, which are public property and exist on public infrastructure.
Yes, and governments have decided to do billions is dollars worth of business with them. Where did that come from? Couldn't the billions have been used for solar infrastructure?
They're only pulling ~300-500 million in revenue, which is enough money to build... 1 or 2 grid scale solar farms...
I'm not saying that wouldn't be a better use of the money, but you should probably do some cursory research on the company so you understand what they are doing, and the financial scale that they are doing it at.
Perhaps you should do a cursory search on the companie's financials so you understand. They passed the $500 million mark in annual revenue at the halfway point of this year after $300 million last year. That means they've likely already passed a billion in total revenue and are just getting started. My small town found the cash to put up $500,000 in flock cameras in a single year... and they are just getting started.
"Annual recurring revenue (ARR) is a key metric used by subscription and software-as-a-service (SaaS) businesses to measure the predictable and recurring revenue expected over a 12-month period"
They are expecting to bring 500 million this year in revenue. Thats what I said, and that's what you said. Not 500 million for the first half of the year and another 500 million the rest of the year. 500 million total.
Perhaps you should do a slightly less cursory search.
Looks like they are 45watt panels. Pull the out of the frame and put them in your own setup and they will look like any other. There is enough variety in panels that nobody can make a guess from looking at them. Especially without being invasive enough to need a warrant.
What do you mean? I bought these off my junk guy. And fuck no I ain't telling you Fernando's details, not even his real name, he gets me cheap electronics
Honestly, I brought them up the other day. You know with Halloween coming up, it is a great day to treat myself to a small solar panel and what I assume is a decent battery.
Legit it's sinking a single pole into the ground that only needs line of sight to the thing it's keeping an eye on. Total maybe 3sqft of space taken up.
It's the cheapest option that has the most freedom of placement.
As opposed to solar farms which require vast plots of land, power substations to make the power usable by the grid, and a lot more upkeep.
Gee, I WONDER why so many of them have gone up instead of solar farms...
Fuck flock and the government but this was a dumb attempt at a gotcha that just doesn't make sense if you think about if for more than 5 seconds.
Conversely though, there is ways to use the same tech to provide cheaper infrastructure as well though.
My city they use them to provide lighted crosswalks, and as well as flashing stops signs where they are less noticeable. So to have Flock and NOT those, there’s some axes to grind.
I’m a little on the fence, I live where it’s cold and the batteries are a common fail point, plus long nights need larger batteries and more panels to charge them too. So depending on how important it is, it should probably be hooked up to the grid as well. A little redundancy, but a properly integrated system could provide to the grid when there’s extra (long summer days and short nights) and take when it’s needed (long winter nights.)
As opposed to solar farms which require vast plots of land, power substations to make the power usable by the grid, and a lot more upkeep.
We already have vast plots of land being taken up by parking lots and buildings. There is a hospital in my area that put solar panels over the parking lot. It is really nice. Your car interior stays cooler. Many buildings have their AC cooling fans on the roof. Solar panels would also shade those and help make them more efficient. All of these areas already have a hookup to the grid. Substation may need to be modified but it isn't as dramatic as you make it sound. Also everything has upkeep costs, including oil refineries and power plants.
We already have vast plots of land being taken up by parking lots and buildings. There is a hospital in my area that put solar panels over the parking lot. It is really nice. Your car interior stays cooler. Many buildings have their AC cooling fans on the roof. Solar panels would also shade those and help make them more efficient. All of these areas already have a hookup to the grid. Substation may need to be modified but it isn’t as dramatic as you make it sound.
yeah but check the economics. climbing on roofs to install 3 m² of solar panels is just not worth it. the total cost of the system is not just the cost of solar panels + land area, but rather solar panels + land area + installation workers cost. and installation work costs significantly more on a roof than on a flat plain area, which is why the plain land is cheaper overall.
Yes, but the thing is that any usable space should be used, it is the principle of minimum waste; precisely because just a few m² of solar panels aren't going to produce as much energy as required, is because we need it wherever possible; also, haven't you though about the fact that edge energy production is everyday more necessary? It's totally worth it, by far.
People seem to underestimate the scale of utility level solar installations and the space they need, and the economies of scale you get with it.
Like absolutely when it makes sense cover a parking lot, put it on roofs etc, but if you can access a field with the right conditions it'll be more cost effective.
You also left off things like permitting. You can permit 1 big field, or dozens / hundreds of parking lots. One field will be easier.
So you're saying we have big areas that are already being used for something else that would need to be at least partially demolished in order to accommodate the infrastructure?
... Something that is way more difficult than popping a pole in the ground.
Look, I am 100% for renewables and have about 500W of panels for small things at home, I am not saying "don't do everything possible to distribute power over as many places that can be retrofitted as possible" I'm saying the OP meme is a bad comparison.
Rooftop solar, parking lot solar, balconies with solar panels bolted on, bring on the distributed power grid. Bare minimum every country engaging in warfare should WANT solar everywhere since it makes it MUCH harder for anyone to attack power production facilities and take down important and significant portions of the grid. That alone makes their power grid much more secure, if not "under government control".
I'd love to have a hybrid wind/solar setup, I live next to some fields and forest, andon top of a hill. So I get plenty of wind all year round and on the far end of the driveway I have a bit area for solar panels with great LOS for the sun from about 10am until sunset. I just don't have the money.
So yeah, I'm all for sinking our tax dollars into a solar revolution (especially when considering what the country ACTUALLY spends money on) but the meme is a bad meme making a false equivalence.
Where did he said that for that someone should demolish the rooftop of an hospital or, even more absurd, an open-air parking lot?
You're just making a straw man fallacy, because you're distorting what he said so you can deny it more easy instead of trying to actually respond to what he actually said.
If you think things can be retrofitted for solar without partially dismantling, digging, or otherwise requiring, as stated, partial demolition, I've got a bridge to Alaska to sell you.
And also as stated, I am in no way against doing these things.
Hrmm, this got me thinking a little actually. Where I am, there isn’t much wind, but other provinces do, we were mainly coal and LPG powered, still are. But solar is on the upswing, our city has multiple massive solar farms.
Anyways, what got me thinking is why we don’t have wind as well, I’m wondering if just due to the almost daily wind spikes being on the east side of the Rockies? How often would the be locked out would make them unfeasible?
Maybe there’s some study on it I can dig up later.
Scale. They can't monetize it in scale otherwise they would. It's not economically viable either way. Power a camera sure, a cities electrical grid?
You have to make money from something in order for the government to implement it at scale.
I've read in another news article that flock themselves began making concessions about how much data they collect and for how long? That's how you know it's being used for government surveillance when they have to scale it back themselves in order not to end up under a lens.
It's not just the solar panels. It's the cost of the cameras and the subscription. It's just beginning as well... these cameras are barely even there at this point... give it time.
Rolling out a large amount of any type of infrastructure is similar when it comes to just dollars. Governments around the country can roll out hundreds of billions of dollars in flock camera equipment...all of the sudden? Why haven't they rolled out solar generation before this using that found money...billions.
I'm all for hating on flock and the government but this is an extremely dumb comparison that doesn't actually make sense. Flock isn't the government and the amount of solar generation for their shit cameras is nothing compared to real grid demand
IIRC majority of cameras are paid for by governments and installed on public lands so the government bit is appropriate.
Fun fact, HOA's are considered governments, although those cameras are on private property.
63 replies
Someone do the math for me pls
And the rest of the math:
The US currently is installing around 7GW of solar power. Per quarter.
7,000MW. Over 1,000x the entire output of all Flock camera solar panels, being added to the US every 3 months.
The government and a myriad of other entities are currently rolling out green infrastructure 4,000x as fast as flock.
The lack of understanding in this post astounding.
solar panels have been used on communication infrastructure since 1960. for example telegraph wires and their respective later versions (copper cable, fiber optics cable, etc) because these cables often run through the middle of nowhere and need a small amount of continuous power to operate. so solar + batteries is the least-maintenace, highest-availability, cheapest option. nobody wants to travel 1000km into the woods to replenish a diesel generator.
--> electronics have been using solar panels since forever. this is nothing new.
If we just redirected all the solar energy from the flock cameras back into the grid we could power the average American home for 2 whole milliseconds!
Think of the savings!
Flock is a private company you fucking idiot.
Who is paying for all of these cameras and solar panels?
Sometimes it's public entities, like city councils, or police departments. Othertimes, it's privately owned business, like Lowes, HomeDepot, apartment complexes, or even "communities" like HOAs. The point is that Flock is a private business, and only government affiliated when and where the government decides to do business with them.
This is in contrast to say, traffic cameras, owned by state DoTs, which are public property and exist on public infrastructure.
Yes, and governments have decided to do billions is dollars worth of business with them. Where did that come from? Couldn't the billions have been used for solar infrastructure?
Maybe, maybe not.
They're only pulling ~300-500 million in revenue, which is enough money to build... 1 or 2 grid scale solar farms...
I'm not saying that wouldn't be a better use of the money, but you should probably do some cursory research on the company so you understand what they are doing, and the financial scale that they are doing it at.
Perhaps you should do a cursory search on the companie's financials so you understand. They passed the $500 million mark in annual revenue at the halfway point of this year after $300 million last year. That means they've likely already passed a billion in total revenue and are just getting started. My small town found the cash to put up $500,000 in flock cameras in a single year... and they are just getting started.
"Annual recurring revenue (ARR) is a key metric used by subscription and software-as-a-service (SaaS) businesses to measure the predictable and recurring revenue expected over a 12-month period"
They are expecting to bring 500 million this year in revenue. Thats what I said, and that's what you said. Not 500 million for the first half of the year and another 500 million the rest of the year. 500 million total.
Perhaps you should do a slightly less cursory search.
Still well over 1 billion in revenue over first few years and growing rapidly.
Who is moving all of these goalposts!
Flock is so entwined with the government that they're basically the same entity
Brothers and sisters, there's free solar panels and batteries with every flock camera!
uhh i think these solar panels will be pretty distinct so they're basically a way to give the police a clear proof that you did it.
Looks like they are 45watt panels. Pull the out of the frame and put them in your own setup and they will look like any other. There is enough variety in panels that nobody can make a guess from looking at them. Especially without being invasive enough to need a warrant.
What do you mean? I bought these off my junk guy. And fuck no I ain't telling you Fernando's details, not even his real name, he gets me cheap electronics
I mean, possession is 9/10 of the law. Possessing stolen goods is a crime, whether you stole them or not.
What stolen goods? Fernando deals in legit junk
Honestly, I brought them up the other day. You know with Halloween coming up, it is a great day to treat myself to a small solar panel and what I assume is a decent battery.
Damn you, I didn't need another new hobby!
Infrastructure?
It’s a self contained unit, the battery is in the unit, not elsewhere, and it actually saves tearing up roads to run power to these units.
Legit it's sinking a single pole into the ground that only needs line of sight to the thing it's keeping an eye on. Total maybe 3sqft of space taken up.
It's the cheapest option that has the most freedom of placement.
As opposed to solar farms which require vast plots of land, power substations to make the power usable by the grid, and a lot more upkeep.
Gee, I WONDER why so many of them have gone up instead of solar farms...
Fuck flock and the government but this was a dumb attempt at a gotcha that just doesn't make sense if you think about if for more than 5 seconds.
i wouldnt be surprised if flock is being partially subsidized by the govt. who else has the most gain, leo, politicians, palantir.
Conversely though, there is ways to use the same tech to provide cheaper infrastructure as well though.
My city they use them to provide lighted crosswalks, and as well as flashing stops signs where they are less noticeable. So to have Flock and NOT those, there’s some axes to grind.
Article from 2011 about them starting it.
Makes you wonder how much could we alleviate strain on the grid by upgrading existing things like this that can be self contained.
I’m a little on the fence, I live where it’s cold and the batteries are a common fail point, plus long nights need larger batteries and more panels to charge them too. So depending on how important it is, it should probably be hooked up to the grid as well. A little redundancy, but a properly integrated system could provide to the grid when there’s extra (long summer days and short nights) and take when it’s needed (long winter nights.)
We already have vast plots of land being taken up by parking lots and buildings. There is a hospital in my area that put solar panels over the parking lot. It is really nice. Your car interior stays cooler. Many buildings have their AC cooling fans on the roof. Solar panels would also shade those and help make them more efficient. All of these areas already have a hookup to the grid. Substation may need to be modified but it isn't as dramatic as you make it sound. Also everything has upkeep costs, including oil refineries and power plants.
yeah but check the economics. climbing on roofs to install 3 m² of solar panels is just not worth it. the total cost of the system is not just the cost of solar panels + land area, but rather solar panels + land area + installation workers cost. and installation work costs significantly more on a roof than on a flat plain area, which is why the plain land is cheaper overall.
Yes, but the thing is that any usable space should be used, it is the principle of minimum waste; precisely because just a few m² of solar panels aren't going to produce as much energy as required, is because we need it wherever possible; also, haven't you though about the fact that edge energy production is everyday more necessary? It's totally worth it, by far.
People seem to underestimate the scale of utility level solar installations and the space they need, and the economies of scale you get with it.
Like absolutely when it makes sense cover a parking lot, put it on roofs etc, but if you can access a field with the right conditions it'll be more cost effective.
You also left off things like permitting. You can permit 1 big field, or dozens / hundreds of parking lots. One field will be easier.
Also, that field can benefit from the shade if the solar is built right
So you're saying we have big areas that are already being used for something else that would need to be at least partially demolished in order to accommodate the infrastructure?
... Something that is way more difficult than popping a pole in the ground.
Look, I am 100% for renewables and have about 500W of panels for small things at home, I am not saying "don't do everything possible to distribute power over as many places that can be retrofitted as possible" I'm saying the OP meme is a bad comparison.
Rooftop solar, parking lot solar, balconies with solar panels bolted on, bring on the distributed power grid. Bare minimum every country engaging in warfare should WANT solar everywhere since it makes it MUCH harder for anyone to attack power production facilities and take down important and significant portions of the grid. That alone makes their power grid much more secure, if not "under government control".
I'd love to have a hybrid wind/solar setup, I live next to some fields and forest, andon top of a hill. So I get plenty of wind all year round and on the far end of the driveway I have a bit area for solar panels with great LOS for the sun from about 10am until sunset. I just don't have the money.
So yeah, I'm all for sinking our tax dollars into a solar revolution (especially when considering what the country ACTUALLY spends money on) but the meme is a bad meme making a false equivalence.
Where did he said that for that someone should demolish the rooftop of an hospital or, even more absurd, an open-air parking lot? You're just making a straw man fallacy, because you're distorting what he said so you can deny it more easy instead of trying to actually respond to what he actually said.
If you think things can be retrofitted for solar without partially dismantling, digging, or otherwise requiring, as stated, partial demolition, I've got a bridge to Alaska to sell you.
And also as stated, I am in no way against doing these things.
Hrmm, this got me thinking a little actually. Where I am, there isn’t much wind, but other provinces do, we were mainly coal and LPG powered, still are. But solar is on the upswing, our city has multiple massive solar farms.
Anyways, what got me thinking is why we don’t have wind as well, I’m wondering if just due to the almost daily wind spikes being on the east side of the Rockies? How often would the be locked out would make them unfeasible?
Maybe there’s some study on it I can dig up later.
Also, solar farms ARE going up.
There’s about 1,000x as much solar capacity going up every quarter in the US as there is total solar capacity on all flock cameras combined.
Flock is a privately owned company.
Solar panels manufacturers are private companies...what does that matter? It's who the customer is that matters.
And the services they provide to the government are totally, completely free of charge.
I'm sorry, but are you real?
Yes. Don't like flock, but this post is stupid.
Scale. They can't monetize it in scale otherwise they would. It's not economically viable either way. Power a camera sure, a cities electrical grid?
You have to make money from something in order for the government to implement it at scale.
I've read in another news article that flock themselves began making concessions about how much data they collect and for how long? That's how you know it's being used for government surveillance when they have to scale it back themselves in order not to end up under a lens.
Flock has installed about 100k units with 45w of solar capacity, for about 5MW of capacity.
The US is installing about 7GW of new solar quarterly.
It's not just the solar panels. It's the cost of the cameras and the subscription. It's just beginning as well... these cameras are barely even there at this point... give it time.
Cool, but not the argument presented.
Rolling out a large amount of any type of infrastructure is similar when it comes to just dollars. Governments around the country can roll out hundreds of billions of dollars in flock camera equipment...all of the sudden? Why haven't they rolled out solar generation before this using that found money...billions.
Okay but... Municipalities dont pay for capex beyond the install. Install costs are under 3k each, so less than $300M total?
Vs solar at around $70B per year.
Even if they were footing the bill, do you really think these cameras cost $2M each?
Yearly subscription service is where flock makes their money. And cities are just scratching the surface on what they will be spending on flock.
Seriously, the kind of “gotcha” statement that OP is going for is really harmful to the movement because it’s so out of touch and incorrect.
I'm all for hating on flock and the government but this is an extremely dumb comparison that doesn't actually make sense. Flock isn't the government and the amount of solar generation for their shit cameras is nothing compared to real grid demand
IIRC majority of cameras are paid for by governments and installed on public lands so the government bit is appropriate. Fun fact, HOA's are considered governments, although those cameras are on private property.
Yes. Flock cameras are not power generation infrastructure. A flock system uses what, 5 watts?
I love how if the government reads this post, then all Flock cameras will henceforth be outfitted with coal-powered steam generators.
I guarantee every one of them with a bunker uses renewable energy, because where you gonna buy gas during the apocalypse?
Power4patriots.com
So right-wing it wrapped all the way around and came out the other side.
technically it is a private (public?) company and not the government, but I like the point
You can type this yourself without having to share a repost from X/twitter.
EXACTLY what i have been saying.
Meanwhile here in Australia, subsidised Solar, battery, Heat pump water heaters and AC units.
But don't worry, the gas loby is trying to get in on the action and return