I just recently replayed everything Bioshock (and finished reading the book last night). I streamed them for a friend that had never played any of them, and we agreed in our rankings of best to worst.
Bioshock 1, Minerva's Den, Burial at Sea, Bioshock 2, Bioshock Infinite.
The story for the first Bioshock just can't be beat, paired with the wonder of Rapture, wow. Bioshock 2 certainly beats it in terms of gameplay, though. Lot of QoL and mechanical changes that improve playing through 2s (IMO) lackluster story, which could've worked better with some changes.
Minerva's Den hits that sweet spot of a good story with 2s improved gameplay.
Burial at Sea is an interesting bag. It and Infinite certainly mix up a lot of things that we knew about Rapture, but, well... it's just cool to return there from a slightly different perspective.
He promises a subsequent Bioshock 2 review, but I really hope he makes it to the Infinite DLC. Without spoiling anything, that dlc fully undermines the entire message of Bioshock 1 and leaves Andrew Ryan 100% correct and justified in all of his actions.
Can you explain it to me inside a spoiler? I played all from BioShock till BioShock Infinite & its DLCs years ago and can't remember how it directly justifies Ryan?
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
You may recall that in the original, Ryan believes that Rapture can stand on it's own ideals and grows increasingly paranoid that the only real threat for the society is outside interference, such as from the CIA destabilizing it. We see that these delusions are baseless and rapture collapses under the weight of its own misguided ideals. However, in Burial at Sea part 2, Elizabeth frees the imprisoned Fontaine, who had been presumed dead, attacked by Ryan's forces for his increasingly rebellious behavior. This, in effect, means that Elizabeth is solely responsible for enabling radical revolutionaries to start the Rapture civil war, resulting in the collapse in the style of a CIA backed coup.
:::
There's a lot more, it decanonizes Bioshock 2 while being internally inconsistent with it's own story telling in the same spaces, and the Daisy Fitzroy plotline doesn't really make sense, in a way that cheapens that, as well.
While I understand what you mean and agree that Infinite and its DLCs throws everything before out the window, I would argue that Fontaine was just the first bullet that killed Rapture but there were many more bullets waiting in the magazine, so to say. The oppression and inherent wrongness of Rapture, including the addictive behaviour of Adam combined with the inherent and even desired power structures would have driven it down the drain either way. Probably later than the New Years Eve party, but it was in my mind always on a path of self destruction.
And yeah, BioShock 2 was done without the involvement of Ken Levine, so he sadly didn't really saw it as part of "his baby". I liked BioShock 2 and Infinite, but Infinite felt more like an alternate canon spin off than part of the main series. For me they are simply similar but different beings, not of the same continuity.
Completely agreed. Rapture WOULD AND SHOULD have collapsed under the weight of it's own misguided ideals, that was kind of the entire point of the first game. It just really undermines that message fundamentally when instead
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
an all knowing demigod comes to specifically fuck up your society on a whim.
:::
I do also agree that, given the contradictions between 2 and infinite, we as players get to decide what the prime canon is. It's kind of damaging to anything that might show up moving forward though unless a brave writer comes forward going "okay sure but fuck that, it didn't happen"
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
Because Elizabeth causes the civil war and gives the ace in the hole to Fontaine, prompting the entire plot of Bioshock 1 by setting up Jack, and then she goes out of her way to save Sally, because she sees Jack will eventually save her and the other little sisters, once again undermining the original game's other original message about player agency, that Jack starts with no agency but breaks free of his conditioning and gains that agency back to choose the ending, but actually, no, Jack was always destined to do things one way only and never had any agency.
On top of that, really weird that Elizabeth decides that her own death is okay because Sally would eventually be safe, given that she condemned all of Rapture to death along the way.
:::
Yep, that is why the plot of Infinite was to me more a bunch of not fully thought through but cool sounding concepts instead of a proper and fully consistent story and world. I like the game for its art style, game play and atmosphere, but it is 100 % not making sense.
And now that you spell it out to me, I never realized before how directly contradicting that ending was to the whole concept of Bioshock 1.
Because to me it lost the point at the moment where they said:
::: spoiler spoiler
There are infinite Raptures. Because then we only saved them in that one single world and there are unnumbered other worlds where saving them didnt happen. So why even care at that point or feel great for saving 1
out of an infinity?
:::
Absolutely agreed on the "wouldn't it be cool if..." But not thinking out style of design. That's not terrible, but it's better suited for something completely over the top like 40k, rather than a more grounded setting like bioshock. And yeah, they really did just nail the worst version of multiversal story, in the general sense.
We're celebrating this victory!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
Even though the player character is a literal demigod that exists amongst all timelines and is deciding, based on relatively little, that she should abandon that power and die to save one person, at the cost of thousands.
:::
I don't know whether I should be surprised at a new Bioshock review, but I am.
I replayed BioShock Infinite a few months back and thought how cool it would be to have Fallout 4-like building available. The floating platforms would be perfect, and the roller coaster tracks. That would be a blast.
17 replies
I just recently replayed everything Bioshock (and finished reading the book last night). I streamed them for a friend that had never played any of them, and we agreed in our rankings of best to worst.
Bioshock 1, Minerva's Den, Burial at Sea, Bioshock 2, Bioshock Infinite.
The story for the first Bioshock just can't be beat, paired with the wonder of Rapture, wow. Bioshock 2 certainly beats it in terms of gameplay, though. Lot of QoL and mechanical changes that improve playing through 2s (IMO) lackluster story, which could've worked better with some changes.
Minerva's Den hits that sweet spot of a good story with 2s improved gameplay.
Burial at Sea is an interesting bag. It and Infinite certainly mix up a lot of things that we knew about Rapture, but, well... it's just cool to return there from a slightly different perspective.
We don't need to talk too much about Infinite.
Bioshock 1 is a mix bag. The first half is great, but the second sucks. The second game is a better experience from start to end.
I played it for the first time about a year ago and actually really enjoyed it. But yeah, it did feel like it could have been a bit shorter.
Did you mean bioshock 2 is better or infinite? Cos I've not played either yet.
I'm talking about Bioshock 2. Infinite is the third game in the series.
Man - Bioshock having trouble running on modern systems makes me feel extremely old.
He promises a subsequent Bioshock 2 review, but I really hope he makes it to the Infinite DLC. Without spoiling anything, that dlc fully undermines the entire message of Bioshock 1 and leaves Andrew Ryan 100% correct and justified in all of his actions.
Can you explain it to me inside a spoiler? I played all from BioShock till BioShock Infinite & its DLCs years ago and can't remember how it directly justifies Ryan?
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler You may recall that in the original, Ryan believes that Rapture can stand on it's own ideals and grows increasingly paranoid that the only real threat for the society is outside interference, such as from the CIA destabilizing it. We see that these delusions are baseless and rapture collapses under the weight of its own misguided ideals. However, in Burial at Sea part 2, Elizabeth frees the imprisoned Fontaine, who had been presumed dead, attacked by Ryan's forces for his increasingly rebellious behavior. This, in effect, means that Elizabeth is solely responsible for enabling radical revolutionaries to start the Rapture civil war, resulting in the collapse in the style of a CIA backed coup. :::
There's a lot more, it decanonizes Bioshock 2 while being internally inconsistent with it's own story telling in the same spaces, and the Daisy Fitzroy plotline doesn't really make sense, in a way that cheapens that, as well.
Thanks for explaining it to me in more detail.
While I understand what you mean and agree that Infinite and its DLCs throws everything before out the window, I would argue that Fontaine was just the first bullet that killed Rapture but there were many more bullets waiting in the magazine, so to say. The oppression and inherent wrongness of Rapture, including the addictive behaviour of Adam combined with the inherent and even desired power structures would have driven it down the drain either way. Probably later than the New Years Eve party, but it was in my mind always on a path of self destruction.
And yeah, BioShock 2 was done without the involvement of Ken Levine, so he sadly didn't really saw it as part of "his baby". I liked BioShock 2 and Infinite, but Infinite felt more like an alternate canon spin off than part of the main series. For me they are simply similar but different beings, not of the same continuity.
Completely agreed. Rapture WOULD AND SHOULD have collapsed under the weight of it's own misguided ideals, that was kind of the entire point of the first game. It just really undermines that message fundamentally when instead
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler an all knowing demigod comes to specifically fuck up your society on a whim. :::
I do also agree that, given the contradictions between 2 and infinite, we as players get to decide what the prime canon is. It's kind of damaging to anything that might show up moving forward though unless a brave writer comes forward going "okay sure but fuck that, it didn't happen"
Oh yeah also
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler Because Elizabeth causes the civil war and gives the ace in the hole to Fontaine, prompting the entire plot of Bioshock 1 by setting up Jack, and then she goes out of her way to save Sally, because she sees Jack will eventually save her and the other little sisters, once again undermining the original game's other original message about player agency, that Jack starts with no agency but breaks free of his conditioning and gains that agency back to choose the ending, but actually, no, Jack was always destined to do things one way only and never had any agency. On top of that, really weird that Elizabeth decides that her own death is okay because Sally would eventually be safe, given that she condemned all of Rapture to death along the way. :::
Yep, that is why the plot of Infinite was to me more a bunch of not fully thought through but cool sounding concepts instead of a proper and fully consistent story and world. I like the game for its art style, game play and atmosphere, but it is 100 % not making sense.
And now that you spell it out to me, I never realized before how directly contradicting that ending was to the whole concept of Bioshock 1.
Because to me it lost the point at the moment where they said:
::: spoiler spoiler There are infinite Raptures. Because then we only saved them in that one single world and there are unnumbered other worlds where saving them didnt happen. So why even care at that point or feel great for saving 1 out of an infinity? :::
Absolutely agreed on the "wouldn't it be cool if..." But not thinking out style of design. That's not terrible, but it's better suited for something completely over the top like 40k, rather than a more grounded setting like bioshock. And yeah, they really did just nail the worst version of multiversal story, in the general sense.
We're celebrating this victory!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler Even though the player character is a literal demigod that exists amongst all timelines and is deciding, based on relatively little, that she should abandon that power and die to save one person, at the cost of thousands. :::
Still hoping for Metro 2033. I need my gripes with Redux validated.
I'm still kinda pissed about Lizzy offing a Comstock that was minding his own business.
I don't know whether I should be surprised at a new Bioshock review, but I am.
I replayed BioShock Infinite a few months back and thought how cool it would be to have Fallout 4-like building available. The floating platforms would be perfect, and the roller coaster tracks. That would be a blast.
Now I'm wishing Fallout 4 had a floating settlement. Maybe a brotherhood blimp or something. I bet I could cook something up at Starlight.