"It's Too Much": Valve Insider Warns Steam Frame Could Touch $1,500 at Launch
https://respawnfirst.com/its-too-much-valve-insider-warns-steam-frame-could-touch-1500-at-launch/Open linkView original on lemmy.todaySyndicated from the fediverse. Read and engage on the original instance.
View original on lemmy.todayhttps://respawnfirst.com/its-too-much-valve-insider-warns-steam-frame-could-touch-1500-at-launch/Open linkView original on lemmy.today
94 replies
Tyler McVicker doesn’t know shit about fuck. He’s “leaked” the release date of the Frame several times now and been completely wrong. I really don’t think it’s fair to call him a “Valve insider” at this point, or to write articles weighting his speculations over anyone else’s.
Kinda expected, especially because unlike Meta, their hardware is not subsidised
On one hand, the Valve Index launched for $1000 in 2019. Adjusted for inflation, that is $1306.25. And you needed a powerful PC to be able to use it, where this can be used standalone. Only effectively costing an extra $194 for standalone processing is pretty impressive.
On the other hand, it is difficult to justify this price considering cheaper headsets on the market, like a $600 Meta Quest 3. Unless you dislike Facebook that strongly (justified).
I'd happily pay more to not use a Meta product.
I remember being so excited for oculous back in the day, but then it got bought by Facebook and I knew I'd never buy one.
And then Palmer Luckey let everyone know who he really is and I knew I'd really dodged a bullet.
I’ve been desperate to get into VR (both as a player and a developer) but being tethered wasn’t for me - it was the biggest gripe I had visiting VR experiences etc. And I dislike Meta on a philosophical and moral level.
So yeah, $1500 for “not Meta” is fine by me.
Yeah, I use a Quest 3 for 14 hours every day. I will definitely be getting Steam Frame even if this is the price. Or at least I will sign up to get one, up to the lottery if I do, lol. Speaking of... I should stop trying to convince people how awesome it is... no... yeah... Definitely too expensive, you wouldn't even like it..... please don't sign up for the lottery.
Ah who am I kidding... it is very much worth that price for anyone that knows they are gonna put it to good use.
How do you use vr for fourteen hours everyday?
It's my computer monitor, my TV, and where I also happen to occasionally play VR games. When not in full VR games, my computer or TV are just floating windows wherever I want them to be. And I'm in full color and 3D passthrough. So basically using them like as if they were already glasses... just super big heavy ones, lol.
Oh, and the practicality of how I physically keep it running 14 hours a day, bobovr infinite hotswap battery system.
And why it isn't 16 hours, I often take it off to eat still. Not all the time though.
How does your neck muscles look? I can imagine you get some workout and some tear.
Using as computer monitor, is that nice? Like coding or writing documents etc? Do they act like a monitor or do you use several workspaces so it feels like multiple monitors?
I wasn't aware this was an option.
The headset is like a pound or something, people wear much heavier hats. My neck is just as weak as it always was, lol. My nieces have been doing VR since they were 4 and 5. They never had issues. Would just be heavier than a pair of glasses would be.
The monitor is not quite full 4k, but it is more clear than 1440p, so still worth setting to 4k anyway. I mainly just play computer games on it, but you can do anything you want, your computer screen is just a floating window you can put wherever you want.
I do have 2 monitors in VR, only one in real life. I mostly use the second one for like a browser window, if I need resources for a game, or I want to put a streamer or Vtuber on in the background. If you press 'Y' on the controller, the monitors swap places, so I do that rather than looking over at it or positioning them in a way that I can see them both. Rather have the one I'm focused on be a 2000 inch TV at 20 feet away. Big enough that it's still like 80 degrees field of view. Just the right size so I can see it all while holding my head still, don't have to turn my head to see corners.
My real life computer monitor is a TV, it's 4k, but old enough that it only does 60hz. The first virtual screen is a representation of that one, so also stuck at 60hz. But the second virtual screen is 4k 120hz. So for any easier to run games, I play them on that one. Unless my sister wants to watch, she of course can only see the 60hz screen.
Get a used PSVR2. You can get em' cheap and they work on PC now.
I thought PSVR2 was wired to the PC with an adapter and cable?
It is.
Great for Sims, racing or flying if you dislike the tether. But if you want to do other things and games, that cable can be very annoying.
I won't use a Meta product under any circumstance, but I'm not going to pay an unlimited amount of money, either. If the alternative can't get reasonably close to Meta's reasonable prices, that just means I will continue to never get VR at all.
If there was a way to hack Meta Quest I might buy one. Finding a hack probably would have been a better use of Valve's resources.
But I wouldn't pay more not to use it, I would just not pay at all. At $1500 I'll just keep not enjoying VR.
There are hacks for the Meta Quest. I am assuming you meant to say you might buy one if custom Roms without the meta intagration were available?
Yes
On my Oculus quest 2 I blocked all Facebook domains, it's the best thing I've found so far. And I regret not doing it earlier, the most recent update that got pushed to it has a hideous UI on to if so the old bugs that remain unsolved...
Don't you have to log into an account to use it?
Yes you do, unfortunately. After that you don't have to have an internet connection however. Since I am only streaming games from pc this arrangement works for me.
Subsidized hardware should probably always be labeled as such. Facebook eats a ton of cost each headset. Makes up for it in tracking data, ad serve, and software sales though. Well. Sorta assuming you ignore the billions they take in losses for the "metaverse". Quick, buy this cheap thing so we can cut out the competition and then raise the price! A tale as old as time.
And the Steam Frame has alot more value added features, not to mention all the components they do have in common are at least a little step up from Quest 3. Other than color passthrough, which will be an add on accessory for those of us that want it. But, nice for the people that don't, they don't have to pay for it. And kind of nice for those of us that do, cuz we'll get to pick which one we want, and I want an expensive one, cuz it's important to me.
Or buying used. I can get a 128GB Quest 3 for under $500 CAD. And they're fairly rare.
I wish they would make a pc headset. It would be so much cheaper without all the extra standalone hardware.
You mean an Index?
No, i mean 500hz oled, inside tracking headset.
Unpopular take here, but I think it's a realistic expectation. I bought the valve index several years ago, and that cost me a grand. I would expect next Gen stuff to be even more expensive, even in the best of times. Add all the tech hardware fuckery of the last couple years to the mix and, well, I wouldn't have expected any lower price.
Does it suck? Yeah. Was the price expected? Also yeah.
It's not really next gen tho. The hardware is comparable to Quest 3.
It's using snapdragon 8 gen 3 which is more powerful than the xr gen 2 by 25%
And it's not owned by meta and many games that you already own will play on it without a PC, and it can be linked to your PC, unlike the $3500 Apple Vision Quest or whatever the hell it was called.
What if I told you there's more to a VR headset than the hardware?
Why would you tell me that when I was only objecting to the next gen label? That wouldn't make much sense.
Comparable in a sense, each component that they actually share. But still all individually upgrades. But for all the components the Steam Frame has that a Quest 3 doesn't even have... literally no comparison. Not to mention functional firmware/operating system. And the community features, and the cool stuff we'll be able to get for the expansion port. And the controllers are much more useful. Not just for VR games, but as actual controllers too.
And they have actual spatial anchoring, you put something at a representative physical point in space, it'll stay exactly there. So you hang a screen on a wall in your house, or in your bathroom, or above your stove... it's there every time, doesn't need to constantly be adjusted, or re-opened. That part of it was such an important feature of the headset that they literally named the headset after it, the Frame system. Quest 3 is so annoying trying to use it that way, not only does stuff subtly shift throughout the day, but you put the headset on tomorrow and it's either in a new random place, or it's gone and you have to put it up again...
As a non stand alone piece of hardware I didn’t see the value. With this new system i am not shocked it’s more expensive than the Steam machine. It’s basically its own game system. I’d argue more so than a machine or deck ..
I get why they did it, but its a shame they made it a standalone device. That itself drives the cost up, now even more so with memory shortages.
This is a complete nothingburger article that's just repeating Tyler McVicker's speculation. I like McVicker, but to act like his guess is insight from a "Valve insider" is dogshit-tier journalism.
For anyone trying to setup VR with Linux, I have had good results with WiVRn and a Quest 2.
I did expect the price to match the index after the ram shortages, but going past it by $500 is a big ol yikes.
I still can't say it wouldn't be worth it at $1.5k for people that really wanted to get into VR... but unfortunately my price limit is $750 US for me to consider a launch day order, and obviously that ain't happening. With component prices being what they are, it's not realistic for me to expect any lower anymore.
But the best I can hope for is a memory crash and DRAM makers come scrambling back to fill the sinkhole void from the collapsing circular financing cycle. Today that's just a pipe dream.
No one other than meta seems interested in making an affordable midrange headset. I get that they want to push the tech but it's out of the budget for so many gamers that might otherwise be interested in vr.
I'm sure the frame is going to be amazing but I would be happier if I could get something for $500-700, even if it was equivalent to the the decade old HTC vive or similar headset.
I wouldn't say the Quest is cheaper, you just pay a recurring non-cash cost. It's a price I'm not willing to pay. I'm also not able to pay the expected cost for the Frame right away, but I hope there are enough early adopters to keep the manufacturing line going long enough for me to be able to afford one.
Even Meta has said they will never subsidize again. So there will be no good and cheap VR systems anymore. Only good or cheap.
Just checked my CS2 Steam Inventory for the first time in many years. What the hell happened to the value of skins?! Most of them have increased twentyfold in value.
I will definitely be selling those to pay for the frame if the frame is this expensive. Rather have nice hardware than some skins.
Some update caused merging skins to get a higher value skins or knifes so some not so valuable weapon skins now have value. Knifes value dropped.
Aah, that explains it. The knife I had went from ~100 to 250€ in the same period. Far less of a again than the rest.
Thanks for the explanation!
I read lots of comments comparing the price tag to the Quest 2/3, but you all seem to forget that the Quest was heavily subsidised by Meta.
I’ll still buy it.
Well... there goes all my expectations to leave META VR ecosystem, so long steam frame
Again, 500-700 yeah sure. 1.5k? Absolutely not.
I would never have put money on it being less than $1k.
Even the index was expensive and that was in a more affordable time period.
I thought it would even out to about 800 dollars before the component crisis.
At one point, Valve had stated that they were shooting for a price under the Index, so that would have been below $1k.
I said this before when they first announced it, but my boss bought the Apple Vision Plus or whatever the hell it was called, and I got to use it, and it was actually a really great experience. Only it's tied to an Apple ecosystem.
I said then that if Valve could bring in their version and it's 60% as good as the Apple headset for under $1,800 then it would be worth it.
My only real concern is dealing with scalpers, and I'm probably not going to be an early adopter, but who knows if I get a Christmas bonus this year or accidentally stumble into a couple extra grand, I might just go ahead and pull the trigger on it.
I skipped the Steam Machine, so I think I’m going to get the Frame unless it’s like $2k.
The market is what the market is, and that doesn’t look like it’s going to get better anytime soon
Sucks Valve got back into the hardware right when Chat and Claude ate it all
It will sell out
I know people who would pay a full 60 dollars for a game on Steam they could get for free on the Epic Store. I’ve seen people do it out of spite the very week a game was free on Epic. I would not be shocked to see this sell out.
Steam is kind of a cult ..
Don’t think valve will mind if you decide it is too expensive, don’t worry
Fuck me for wanting gaming hardware to be affordable, I guess.
You are not entitled to everything in this world
This is pretty much the only option for potentially seamless wireless VR on Linux so it's still going to sell
I read in a thread yesterday someone mentioning 600 as starting point. The previous steam VR was around 1k if i'm not mistaken. Due to SamAltmanism the prices of hardware are high as hell, so it was unrealistic ( to me) to be less than 1.5k
Looks like I'm never getting into VR for the same reason I didn't years back. Price continues to be expensive, and only cheap options are meta which is a big no.
There are others... Like pico 4 with which I am still a happy simracer.
I dunno, Steam keeps insisting it's going to be sub 1K.
This is going to sting a lot in my wallet. I know myself so I will probably get it anyway, regret it and with time, probably accept it.
Costs like a whole new okay computer but I guess that is what it is also.
So probably 1200 or 1300 on launch - people will think they are getting a deal.
Fuck man. I really want to get into VR gaming, but that’s a ridiculous barrier to entry. The Quest 3 is reasonable, but I’m afraid I’ll buy it, love it, and want more.
The Quest would be fine if it weren't for Meta. I have a Quest 2, but I stopped using it over privacy concerns.
It worked great wired to my PC for PCVR. The wireless was pretty spotty.
Now that I think about it, would I have to make a Facebook account to use it? Cause that’s a hard fuckin no from me.
Nope just a meta account. If that's better or worse idk.
Seens like the same thing to me since whatever meta calls themselves its meta as a corporation that creeps me out.
Yeah. They have you attached a camera to your head that actively maps everything around you in color 3d and sends it to Facebook servers. Anytime I used it I'd take pretty much everything else out of the room. I think if I use it again I may use a deceased relative's account to really fuck with their data.
I wish it were possible to just flash something else on it like you can on smartphones, and get rid of all the meta stuff on it.
I mean, I definitely get the paranoia, but people have wiresharked it left and right, and every day... it doesn't. They do harvest what you do on the metaverse, but that is basically gone now anyway, and was always optional. They collect data from any first party products, but like the headset itself, no. It doesn't send anything. And that isn't something you can hide. Like the signal literally has to be sent, and it would be detectable.
They definitely have over the years kept mentioning things they would like to do, like using eye tracking to confirm to advertisers that ads were actually watched and shit, but that never actually came about. The only eye tracking they made so far was on the headset they didn't target at consumers. I'm sure they still have future plans to achieve some of their horrible goals, but as of yet, hasn't happened.
If it helps, the meta account is just a renamed oculus account, uses all the underlying systems from back then. I didn't have to make one, my oculus account worked.
What bothers me is that all the data goes back to meta.
People have wiresharked it, only data that goes back to them is in their first party games, the headset doesn't send anything. Always subject to change of course. They have mentioned plenty of plans over the years, but so far nothing implemented, most concrete plan was using the eye tracking to confirm to advertisers that an ad was watched, but the only headset they have done with eye tracking wasn't targeted at consumers. So hasn't come to fruition.
Honestly, as someone who bought and still have the Quest 1, don't give them a cent. Approximately a year after I bought it they launched the Oculus 2, and new apps stopped supporting it, a couple of years later and it was mostly dead with no new games being released, couple of years later and they officially dropped support, making my most expensive paperweight yet. Now I can't download the games that I bought on that platform, and will have to pay Meta more money for a new headset to keep having access to them.
I will buy a Frame and rebuy my games on Steam, because I have good confidence that it won't become a paperweight, and that if it ever becomes old enough to actually be obsolete I can buy any other VR headset that supports my OS and keep playing my games.
I got a Quest 3 and it completely satiated my VR needs. And in some respects it has advantages over the Frame, such as color passthrough
Yeah, out of the box, though color passthrough is already confirmed as an accessory. They just figured no sense making everyone pay for it if it can be done through the accessory slot. Some people don't need color passthrough. And some people will want to buy a higher end one than what would have been included if they did include color passthrough. This way, everyone can be satisfied. And even a color passthrough module that uses 2 cameras and does stereo reconstruction uses 1/4 of the lanes and less than 10% of the bandwidth. So you could still daisychain other accessories too.
The Quest 3 hardware is awesome. It's all the rest that sucks. But using it as a box that launches Virtual Desktop, it's been completely fine.... still getting a Steam Frame as soon as the lottery picks me to be allowed to pay them money.
Again, never owned any VR headset, is that something that would require a bunch of knowhow to do?
Virtual desktop is just 20 bucks, the only knowledge you need is how to make sure your home router doesn't suck, or if you don't want to know that, buying a bespoke single device USB router specifically made to stream a VR headset, like a puppis S1. Basically the big version of Steam Frames dongle.
And having a computer worth streaming to the headset. Depending on what you want to play, the hardware requirements vary quite a bit. Most stuff made for VR is relatively accessible. But if you want the really good games, those currently mostly come from good VR mods for good games. And they will generally have a higher hardware requirement, as they weren't optimized to run well in VR.
If you just want a VR headset to stream flat screen content to, like a 4k steam deck that you don't have to either hold your hands up to your face, or look down at your hands... then even a super entry level computer is plenty for most games. Anything you can already run on your computer will play and look nearly identical streamed to the headset with Virtual Desktop. VR headset hardware is extremely optimally designed around low latency. So it's one of the lowest latency options for streaming flat games. I generally am reclining in a real comfy recliner when just playing flat games or watching TV, and putting the screen at a nice comfortable viewing angle and height for that. Not to mention putting the monitor 20 feet away and making it huge, so it's comfy for my eyes. No staring at a screen 2 feet from my face anymore. Even though the screen is actually one inch from my eyes, lol. Doesn't feel like it to them, and that is the part that is important.
And, if you don't have a computer, Quest 3 still has decent stand alone games. The operating system is mostly only annoying in that they constantly change stuff without making it better, just different, and stuff breaks alot, cuz they fired most of their humans and the few humans left are mandated to generate everything with AI. Same goes for firmware. Frequent broken features that can last for months. It sucks, but still hasn't gotten to a point where it can literally be called unusable... but it sure can figuratively and hyperbolically be called that. As many people will demonstrate.
You don’t really need Virtual Desktop. The Steam Link app has made leaps and bounds in functionality and quality over the years. If you have a good home network (I’m taking a router with WiFi 6) and a PC wired to Ethernet, you can stream to the headset just fine.
Price aside, do we think it's better than other options?
Based on past history of various VR HMD makers, for at least Linux users, I'd bet yes.
But...that's assuming that the user is going to get an HMD in the first place. Like, one "option" is to just not use an HMD, just use a traditional monitor and forego VR-only titles.
Im kind of optimistic. At prices like that the dominant market will be turbo-enthusiasts and hyper-nerds. Imagine what kind of library will be available by the time regular people can afford it after catering to that audience.
I'll take 2 of em.