I'm so sorry and ashamed of those Swedes. Tallin is such a beautiful city. I hope the Estonian police can gather enough data and share it with Swedish police to identify and prosecute those idiots.
There was a a daycare that was annoyed by parents that were always late to pick up their kids. This was a problem because it meant the staff would have to work late. So they decided to charge a fine when parents showed up late. Problem solved, right?
Parents were tardy more often after the fine were put in place.
The reason was that people who felt bad about their poor behavior no longer felt bad when they were compensating someone for it.
The Swedish fans pay for tickets which support the team. The ticket prices would go up when they behave this way. But we shouldn't assume that it would be a deterrent. They might think that because they pay higher ticket prices, they now have permission to behave poorly.
Fair point, but I think it could be managed with the right model. It does not have to be a flat "replace the proven material damages" fine. There could be fixed (large) fines for any kind of significant misbehavior on top the the material damages, multiplication factors can be applied to material damages and adjusted until an effect kicks in, fines can be increased with repeat offenses, ...
At some point clubs will just go bankrupt if they don't take action against this.
Alternatively, instead of fines give them "yellow cards" or "red cards" depending on severity and ban them from the next game(s) accordingly, counted as an automatic loss in the league or tournament. Clubs will care about that a lot, same as most parents who might not care about paying a fine will care a lot about losing their daycare spot, if only for a short time.
All these Swedes apologizing and me as an american watching this like, "so that's what it looks like from the outside to apologize for your idiot countrymen."
I have never understood what the point of going crazy after a sports event.
If you let sports become an emotional experience, I have problems with you already, but allowing it to get you worked up into enough of a frenzy to just go out and break stuff just makes no sense at all.
If the outcome of a game affects you even one iota more than "oh well" or "yay", then I already know you're of caveman-level intelligence. Yes, I'm judging raucous sports fans, and I'm tired of pretending not to. Nothing should ever get you that worked up at all. Except maybe a ton of coke. Even life or death situations should be more chill than that.
I won't even get that crazy when Trump dies, so sports fans have no reason to ever get like that. I don't care about their ages or maturity either. Getting that worked up at all, ever, in any context is just proof of lack of self control.
And people act like it's just normal. I see it mentioned after American football games too (usually I hear about it in reference to Philadelphia but I'm sure it's talked about elsewhere too).
These people need to be force sedated during the game to prevent this from happening.
95% of people overlook the involvement of alcohol. I know you urinpeans love your booze, but you need to recognize that its a problem. I went out to a 4/20 event one year in the far off land of San Francisco, and everything was great until about 5pm when the liquor came out. Once morons started doing shots off park benches, the fights started, and the property destruction started. An otherwise peaceful and heavily medicated gathering turned into a riot with just a handful of handles.
Right, but other than sports, where else do huge masses of alkies all happen to be in the same spot?
People act like they can't go anywhere or do anything without alcohol being available to overdose on. Sports? Alcohol. Restaurant? Alcohol. Fancy movie theater? Alcohol. Dinner party? Depends on the specific people involved, but fairly often, alcohol. Bowling alley? Alcohol.
Pretty much every social gathering that doesn't specifically include kids has alcohol around. Even if we could get everybody to upgrade to (the entirely superior in literally every single possible way-and it's not even close) cannabis, I wouldn't recommend it being literally everywhere.
In big crowds it really shouldn't be available at all. No context makes that a good idea.
Not sure why you're shitting on Europeans, either.
I mean, I have no idea personally. Other than similar events to this. But I'm not sure what alcohol specifically has to do with native American oppression.
I just hate the fact that alcohol is popular at all. I've always maintained that the current legal status of weed and alcohol should be swapped.
Other than when it was unknown how to get clean water and using alcohol to make it more safe, I don't think alcohol should be consumed at all.
Not one drinker can give a good reason they can't just relax with a high instead of getting plastered. At least not outside of "but that's what I'm used to and I can't rise above being a creature of habit and improve anything about my life".
If humans just collectively forgot alcohol can be consumed, literally zero negative effects would happen. Combine with learning about cannabis consumption, and everything affected is neutral at the absolute worst in terms of comparison.
I wanna live in a world where we forgot drunk driving and drink rages were common events. I can go on a whole tangent rant about that tho.
I suspect they are not actually in a state of extreme emotional turmoil when these things happen, but they rather just enjoy destruction for its own sake and don't care about the consequences for others. The sports event is just an excuse.
Similar things unfortunately exist in other contexts, too. Recently I heard of similar behavior in the camping area of large music festivals being an increasing problem.
The point is to give people a more safe outlet for their tribalistic impulses. That's why this propaganda with Trump is working so well, they're exploiting that instinct. I still feel that when all those right wingers decided to boycott the NFL, that's when we lost them to the ultra right for good.
I tune out the moment people start talking about sportsball. I think a lot of the destructive side of things comes from a mob effect. You get a lot of inebriated people together, all high on their excitement, and it compounds. It's not justified, but one potential reason.
People just never grow out of kindergarten. I still say nothing should excite anyone that much, at all, ever.
And alcohol rules being as loose as they are is total mayhem. Public alcohol should never have gotten this lenient. Staying prohibition didn't exactly work out, but public events should be like one drink maximum. Maybe two. I dunno how to stop people, exactly, but bring dishes in public shouldn't be possible.
I don't think we should live with a limited set of emotions, just that we should control whatever we feel. I see nothing wrong with people being excited and overjoyed at something. Even if I find that something stupid and not worth my attention. It was worth theirs and they are excited about it.
My issues come at the destruction. Alcohol is a difficult topic. Prohibition of any substance just makes access more dangerous and less safe. There should probably be lower limits for public events though.
Feeling then and doing any kind of action are different. Nothing should get you that worked up, in my opinion. Emotionally and such, sure. But the "physically acting out" part not so much. For a sports or entertainment event I mean. If someone like does your kid, sure that should give you almost carte blanche to react. It's not like you just magically teleport somewhere and wake up with a heavy dwindle object in your hand and fragile stuff out everywhere. There is premeditation of some sort happening in between. Hooting and hollering is acceptable, but if you go anywhere while drunk, you either need a responsible drunk sitter or a straightjacket with leg straps.
Drunk people are fucking idiots and shouldn't be allowed even a quarter of the freedoms they currently have. No driving, no weapons, and no public, for starters. And by driving I mean one single DUI means lots of license for several years AT LEAST. I'd argue for permanent forfeiture, but that's the absolute most lenient I would settle for. Given how dangerous they are behind a wheel, we aren't even slapping them on the wrist, we're just saying "no no no, little one". The idea of a single tiny mistake should strike absolute mortal terror upon them as far as that goes. Not being able to get around (especially with our public transport system) is a devastating blow, and everyone should be one sip away from having to make major life rearrangements.
If they actually hit anyone or damage something, it skyrockets immediately and VERY steeply. I have no room for leniency or mercy. Even the legal limit is too high. Basically drinking and not being at home should make people nervous af.
There's a swiss football team near us that has fans that all wear khaki trousers and black shirts and they march instead of singing and waving scarves. Creepy as hell.
As a Swede I find this utterly embarrassing, and more than mildly infuriating. These are just criminals who use football as an excuse to hate on society.
A good number are like this though. I used to live next to the stadium in Bulgaria and on game days we locked ourselves inside because it's not safe with these roving mobs of hooligans. People get attacked, raped, they destroy everything in their path. It didn't matter what country they were from, a good number are always like this.
'Ultras' of any football club should be categorized as domestic terror groups or whatever. No matter the country, all they do is just smear graffiti, destroy public property, be drunk, starting fighta and being generally obnoxious POS. Football clubs should be liable for any damage those mfs do. And if that means that they need to raise ticket prices, good. Maybe this will discourage those mfs from going to the stadium.
This shows the difference between casual football fans that went to see the world cup (they were awesome) and hardcore football fans that are closer to terrorist organizations.
These shitstains don't just get drunk and destroy things and attack people, they plan to do so ahead of time, this is just part of the fun for them
Swede here (and from GBG, Gothenburg), and I can only say I'm sorry for the shit stains that did this. I have no interest in sports so I really had no idea this was something that could happen. Fuck every single person who took part in this, they don't represent us as a country and city at all. I hope you hate them for them, not the whole country and city. And I, and I'm absolutely certain most of us, share the absolutely deserved hate towards the people who did this. I hope there's some way to get names and make those public, I'd love to make them feel unwelcome in their own home. They should get jail time for vandalism.
I hope the hosting stadium sends the bill, local authorities find the perpetrators and all business get insurance to pay out. Also i hope some researcher shows how much more expensive hosting a football match becomes because of these 'supporters', and that these costs are charged beforehand somehow.
Man, as someone who lives near Gothenburg. I am so so sorry for my neighbors. Football brings out the worst of some. I love Tallin so this makes me really really sad
Every day I wake up and feel the immense happiness of knowing that standing up for myself through the 10 years of elementary school and ignoring all of the football guys (90% of the guys at my tiny ass rural school) made me a better person.
Jokes aside, as a swede it is horrible knowing our own football fans behave this way. I sure hope authorities take responsibility and pay for this. These fans shouldnt be allowed to attend games.
Obviously destruction of property is an inappropriate response to any soccer result, but this is particularly baffling because European soccer isn't in season. They did this for a friendly? I mean a coupla-few stickers maybe, but what kind of celebrating or bad blood are you having after a friendly?
There doesn't have to be a reason to any of this. Hooligans cause damage any chance they get. They do this at home too. They are permanently at war with everyone and everything.
It never seems to be a great time for the surrounding infrastructure when a huge amount of people congregate, but it really does feel like sports events bring the worst...
It actually is English, or at least identical to the way you would write it in English. "Ultras" is a term for certain football fan groups. Not all ultras are like this, but when you hear about shitty behavior by a team's fans, it's usually ultras. In this case, it's IFK Göteburg's ultras called Wisemen.
So it says "Ultras", "GBG" (Göteburg/Gothenburg), and "Wisemen" (name)
The idea of hooligans just spray painting the name of the sport everywhere is hilarious to me for some reason. Like the meme of Steve Buscemi in the "music band" T-shirt.
You know, as an American who doesn't do sports, I had no idea why Sword and Shield had Team Yell as the villains when they're just a bunch of weirdly obsessive fans of a trainer.
And then a friend in the UK explained it with a handful of photos very similar to this. Question answered.
Not surprised. People from Göteborg can't behave themselves. They're all inbred shrimp smugglers with no imaginable future unless their dream come true and they can move to Stockholm.
80 replies
football fanatics being a pestilence as always
I'm so sorry and ashamed of those Swedes. Tallin is such a beautiful city. I hope the Estonian police can gather enough data and share it with Swedish police to identify and prosecute those idiots.
Make the clubs pay for this kind of thing and watch the problem disappear in record time.
There was a a daycare that was annoyed by parents that were always late to pick up their kids. This was a problem because it meant the staff would have to work late. So they decided to charge a fine when parents showed up late. Problem solved, right?
Parents were tardy more often after the fine were put in place.
The reason was that people who felt bad about their poor behavior no longer felt bad when they were compensating someone for it.
The Swedish fans pay for tickets which support the team. The ticket prices would go up when they behave this way. But we shouldn't assume that it would be a deterrent. They might think that because they pay higher ticket prices, they now have permission to behave poorly.
Fair point, but I think it could be managed with the right model. It does not have to be a flat "replace the proven material damages" fine. There could be fixed (large) fines for any kind of significant misbehavior on top the the material damages, multiplication factors can be applied to material damages and adjusted until an effect kicks in, fines can be increased with repeat offenses, ...
At some point clubs will just go bankrupt if they don't take action against this.
Alternatively, instead of fines give them "yellow cards" or "red cards" depending on severity and ban them from the next game(s) accordingly, counted as an automatic loss in the league or tournament. Clubs will care about that a lot, same as most parents who might not care about paying a fine will care a lot about losing their daycare spot, if only for a short time.
I'm sure they would vandalise with the rival clubs brands then.
All these Swedes apologizing and me as an american watching this like, "so that's what it looks like from the outside to apologize for your idiot countrymen."
I have never understood what the point of going crazy after a sports event.
If you let sports become an emotional experience, I have problems with you already, but allowing it to get you worked up into enough of a frenzy to just go out and break stuff just makes no sense at all.
If the outcome of a game affects you even one iota more than "oh well" or "yay", then I already know you're of caveman-level intelligence. Yes, I'm judging raucous sports fans, and I'm tired of pretending not to. Nothing should ever get you that worked up at all. Except maybe a ton of coke. Even life or death situations should be more chill than that.
I won't even get that crazy when Trump dies, so sports fans have no reason to ever get like that. I don't care about their ages or maturity either. Getting that worked up at all, ever, in any context is just proof of lack of self control.
And people act like it's just normal. I see it mentioned after American football games too (usually I hear about it in reference to Philadelphia but I'm sure it's talked about elsewhere too).
These people need to be force sedated during the game to prevent this from happening.
95% of people overlook the involvement of alcohol. I know you urinpeans love your booze, but you need to recognize that its a problem. I went out to a 4/20 event one year in the far off land of San Francisco, and everything was great until about 5pm when the liquor came out. Once morons started doing shots off park benches, the fights started, and the property destruction started. An otherwise peaceful and heavily medicated gathering turned into a riot with just a handful of handles.
Right, but other than sports, where else do huge masses of alkies all happen to be in the same spot?
People act like they can't go anywhere or do anything without alcohol being available to overdose on. Sports? Alcohol. Restaurant? Alcohol. Fancy movie theater? Alcohol. Dinner party? Depends on the specific people involved, but fairly often, alcohol. Bowling alley? Alcohol.
Pretty much every social gathering that doesn't specifically include kids has alcohol around. Even if we could get everybody to upgrade to (the entirely superior in literally every single possible way-and it's not even close) cannabis, I wouldn't recommend it being literally everywhere.
In big crowds it really shouldn't be available at all. No context makes that a good idea.
Not sure why you're shitting on Europeans, either.
As a native American, its pretty clear exactly why everyone should hate on Europeans when it comes to alcohol.
I mean, I have no idea personally. Other than similar events to this. But I'm not sure what alcohol specifically has to do with native American oppression.
I just hate the fact that alcohol is popular at all. I've always maintained that the current legal status of weed and alcohol should be swapped.
Other than when it was unknown how to get clean water and using alcohol to make it more safe, I don't think alcohol should be consumed at all.
Not one drinker can give a good reason they can't just relax with a high instead of getting plastered. At least not outside of "but that's what I'm used to and I can't rise above being a creature of habit and improve anything about my life".
If humans just collectively forgot alcohol can be consumed, literally zero negative effects would happen. Combine with learning about cannabis consumption, and everything affected is neutral at the absolute worst in terms of comparison.
I wanna live in a world where we forgot drunk driving and drink rages were common events. I can go on a whole tangent rant about that tho.
I suspect they are not actually in a state of extreme emotional turmoil when these things happen, but they rather just enjoy destruction for its own sake and don't care about the consequences for others. The sports event is just an excuse.
Similar things unfortunately exist in other contexts, too. Recently I heard of similar behavior in the camping area of large music festivals being an increasing problem.
The point is to give people a more safe outlet for their tribalistic impulses. That's why this propaganda with Trump is working so well, they're exploiting that instinct. I still feel that when all those right wingers decided to boycott the NFL, that's when we lost them to the ultra right for good.
I tune out the moment people start talking about sportsball. I think a lot of the destructive side of things comes from a mob effect. You get a lot of inebriated people together, all high on their excitement, and it compounds. It's not justified, but one potential reason.
People just never grow out of kindergarten. I still say nothing should excite anyone that much, at all, ever.
And alcohol rules being as loose as they are is total mayhem. Public alcohol should never have gotten this lenient. Staying prohibition didn't exactly work out, but public events should be like one drink maximum. Maybe two. I dunno how to stop people, exactly, but bring dishes in public shouldn't be possible.
I don't think we should live with a limited set of emotions, just that we should control whatever we feel. I see nothing wrong with people being excited and overjoyed at something. Even if I find that something stupid and not worth my attention. It was worth theirs and they are excited about it.
My issues come at the destruction. Alcohol is a difficult topic. Prohibition of any substance just makes access more dangerous and less safe. There should probably be lower limits for public events though.
Feeling then and doing any kind of action are different. Nothing should get you that worked up, in my opinion. Emotionally and such, sure. But the "physically acting out" part not so much. For a sports or entertainment event I mean. If someone like does your kid, sure that should give you almost carte blanche to react. It's not like you just magically teleport somewhere and wake up with a heavy dwindle object in your hand and fragile stuff out everywhere. There is premeditation of some sort happening in between. Hooting and hollering is acceptable, but if you go anywhere while drunk, you either need a responsible drunk sitter or a straightjacket with leg straps.
Drunk people are fucking idiots and shouldn't be allowed even a quarter of the freedoms they currently have. No driving, no weapons, and no public, for starters. And by driving I mean one single DUI means lots of license for several years AT LEAST. I'd argue for permanent forfeiture, but that's the absolute most lenient I would settle for. Given how dangerous they are behind a wheel, we aren't even slapping them on the wrist, we're just saying "no no no, little one". The idea of a single tiny mistake should strike absolute mortal terror upon them as far as that goes. Not being able to get around (especially with our public transport system) is a devastating blow, and everyone should be one sip away from having to make major life rearrangements.
If they actually hit anyone or damage something, it skyrockets immediately and VERY steeply. I have no room for leniency or mercy. Even the legal limit is too high. Basically drinking and not being at home should make people nervous af.
Which game?
sweden vs estonia. football
European soccer hooligans are some of the worst people on the continent. Also majority of them are fascists, especially in eastern europe.
There's a swiss football team near us that has fans that all wear khaki trousers and black shirts and they march instead of singing and waving scarves. Creepy as hell.
The nationalists in the US dress like that when they march, Nazi stuff.
Then they would feel right at home in Estonia
As a Swede I find this utterly embarrassing, and more than mildly infuriating. These are just criminals who use football as an excuse to hate on society.
They're like this everywhere.
Average football people behaviour
average "stadium fan" behaviour
Absolute nonsense. By far the majority of football fans want nothing to do with the kind of pricks who do this sort of thing.
A good number are like this though. I used to live next to the stadium in Bulgaria and on game days we locked ourselves inside because it's not safe with these roving mobs of hooligans. People get attacked, raped, they destroy everything in their path. It didn't matter what country they were from, a good number are always like this.
Sure, some are like that. But not enough for it to be "average football fan behaviour" - it's the exception, not the rule.
Imagine if migrants did it
It's probably good Americans aren't big football fans because they would celebrate like this but with guns too.
Philadelphia has to grease the light poles because Philly fans riot after basically every game, especially when they win.
Philly fans are the worst in the US. But even then, I don’t think they do this to a stadium bathroom
Will you stop with this hypothetical shit, there are actual, real things to be critical about
Sounds like a problem that would solve itself
I just want to know how the hypothetical americans got their guns to europe.
Have you not seen what sheep americans are?
'Ultras' of any football club should be categorized as domestic terror groups or whatever. No matter the country, all they do is just smear graffiti, destroy public property, be drunk, starting fighta and being generally obnoxious POS. Football clubs should be liable for any damage those mfs do. And if that means that they need to raise ticket prices, good. Maybe this will discourage those mfs from going to the stadium.
Exactly.
People don't join these groups because they like football.
They join because they want to get drunk, fight, and smash things up, and need an 'excuse' to do that, and similar people to do it with.
This shows the difference between casual football fans that went to see the world cup (they were awesome) and hardcore football fans that are closer to terrorist organizations.
These shitstains don't just get drunk and destroy things and attack people, they plan to do so ahead of time, this is just part of the fun for them
Not only mildly infuriating
Swede here (and from GBG, Gothenburg), and I can only say I'm sorry for the shit stains that did this. I have no interest in sports so I really had no idea this was something that could happen. Fuck every single person who took part in this, they don't represent us as a country and city at all. I hope you hate them for them, not the whole country and city. And I, and I'm absolutely certain most of us, share the absolutely deserved hate towards the people who did this. I hope there's some way to get names and make those public, I'd love to make them feel unwelcome in their own home. They should get jail time for vandalism.
I hope the hosting stadium sends the bill, local authorities find the perpetrators and all business get insurance to pay out. Also i hope some researcher shows how much more expensive hosting a football match becomes because of these 'supporters', and that these costs are charged beforehand somehow.
Man, as someone who lives near Gothenburg. I am so so sorry for my neighbors. Football brings out the worst of some. I love Tallin so this makes me really really sad
Every day I wake up and feel the immense happiness of knowing that standing up for myself through the 10 years of elementary school and ignoring all of the football guys (90% of the guys at my tiny ass rural school) made me a better person.
Jokes aside, as a swede it is horrible knowing our own football fans behave this way. I sure hope authorities take responsibility and pay for this. These fans shouldnt be allowed to attend games.
Damn, as a Swedish person. I'm sorry our football hooligans are a problem even here. I don't known it was that bad though.
I hope the club responsible gets the bill in full, detailed and all. What a fucking travesty.
Obviously destruction of property is an inappropriate response to any soccer result, but this is particularly baffling because European soccer isn't in season. They did this for a friendly? I mean a coupla-few stickers maybe, but what kind of celebrating or bad blood are you having after a friendly?
There doesn't have to be a reason to any of this. Hooligans cause damage any chance they get. They do this at home too. They are permanently at war with everyone and everything.
They're pests. You don't reason with cockroaches.
The qualifiers for Europa league/conference league etc. has already started. This was a conference league qualifier game.
Ah that makes more sense, although an ecl qualifier is still pretty tame.
This and players pretending to be injured on the field is why of all the sports in the world football has by far the worst reputation in my mind.
it's kind of tragic, because smaller clubs with smaller fan communities are some of the most lovely people
Fun fact. Their own club will pay for the damages.
It never seems to be a great time for the surrounding infrastructure when a huge amount of people congregate, but it really does feel like sports events bring the worst...
Well you can't expect them to vandalize their own home town.
Philadelphia almost exclusively damagea their own town. And they do it the most when they win.
Now that boggles the mind
Have you seen Göteborg? It's a permanent shithole so damage like this wouldn't look out of place.
wow look at that.
Europeans can be just as big if not bigger pieces of shit than Americans!
White Americans are just (usually) even more uncouth Western Europeans???
This was probably Americans who were just watching Sweden play
Considering the graffiti is not in English (or any language that I, an American, recognize):
(X) Doubt
It actually is English, or at least identical to the way you would write it in English. "Ultras" is a term for certain football fan groups. Not all ultras are like this, but when you hear about shitty behavior by a team's fans, it's usually ultras. In this case, it's IFK Göteburg's ultras called Wisemen.
So it says "Ultras", "GBG" (Göteburg/Gothenburg), and "Wisemen" (name)
How wise of them
If it was an American, it would almost definitely say "soccer" somewhere
The idea of hooligans just spray painting the name of the sport everywhere is hilarious to me for some reason. Like the meme of Steve Buscemi in the "music band" T-shirt.
Football firms consist of a special kind of fanatics. They're there to seek out violence and destruction. Despicable really.
How embarrassing.
Feeling kinda vindicated as a Canadian curling fan rn
Dont talk to me about those mf'ers! Didn't say please, didn't say thank you. Wet clothes inside. Made a slight mess they did.
/s :)
Wi Semen?
You know, as an American who doesn't do sports, I had no idea why Sword and Shield had Team Yell as the villains when they're just a bunch of weirdly obsessive fans of a trainer.
And then a friend in the UK explained it with a handful of photos very similar to this. Question answered.
Perhaps more mildly infuriating is that the mods here seem to be on vacation
Not surprised. People from Göteborg can't behave themselves. They're all inbred shrimp smugglers with no imaginable future unless their dream come true and they can move to Stockholm.
600k residents in the city area and 1.1 million in the metropolitan area. All inbred shrimp smuggles no imaginable future. Every single one of them.
Pretty much, yeah. Ever been?
It's the Alabama of Sweden