Quote of the day by PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel: 'I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible' — a foundational thesis of the new tech elite
https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-paypal-co-founder-peter-thiel-i-no-longer-believe-that-freedom-and-democracy-are-compatible-a-foundational-thesis-of-the-new-tech-eliteOpen linkView original on piefed.ca
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Ah it seems like the didn't say the entirety of what he believes, he really means:
Remember kids, look around you. Too much money will fuck you up big time.
Tbh this guys method is ‘the boy who cries wolf’ in the most random ways.. anyone who gives this guy a seconds worth of your attention just needs to reevaluate their why they are trying to rationalize or give chance to ppl with greed as their best interest
I have similar suspicions. "Democracy" tends to mean, "governed by corporations and foreign oligarchs" over time. It is extremely vulnerable to outside influence and depends on its constituents' conscientiousness to protect it from that influence. The study of human psychology and manipulation (or just call it mind control) keeps leaping forward, but democratic structures aren't benefiting from the advances and the gap is widening. Democratic methods work great when everyone knows each other and respects the process, and they don't really work in the presence of bad actors.
That’s pretty much only because the idealized form of democracy in the West is a representative one, i.e. the people vote in a representative when a certain period of time passes and hope they don’t cave in to foreign interests/bribes.
In a direct democracy, the people have a direct say in government policy and can make their interests known via regular votes and meetings. I’m not going to pretend like it’s a flawless form of democracy, but it’s definitely harder for bad actors to push their agenda if citizens can directly push back against that without any red tape getting in the way. Unfortunately even consideration of it is extremely rare in the world though.
Do you have an example that supports your view? How does a system with thousands of votes a year survive the effects of voter inattention better than one that has one big one every four years?
Something that came to my mind as a possible such example is open-source software. But I think that only maps in an analogous way, not literally.
For sure! Switzerland is definitely the biggest example, though there's also Liechtenstein and arguably Cuba (not saying it is outright). If I were to play devil's advocate I'd say that those are all semi direct democracies, though considering how abstracted they all are from representative democracies in general I'd also say that it hardly makes a difference from a relative standpoint.
In Switzerland's case, there's no need to register directly as a voter, and every citizen has an opportunity to vote on various issues on about a quarterly basis, or 4 times per year. People can also vote on appending the constitution and can vote against bills approved by authorities. According to the Politics of Switzerland Wikipedia page:
Why does he think his opinion on this matters?
You've read that in. You shared an opinion just now, but that doesn't mean you believe your opinion is important and matters on this issue. Keumars Afifi-Sabet (or more likely, their editor) thinks his opinion matters, or at least, is marketable.
I didn't read that in. He travels all around the world and spends millions upon millions of dollars to astroturf his opinion on politics and governance. He clearly thinks his opinion matters, and he thinks his money is what makes it matter.
Contrast that with everyone else whose opinions he apparently thinks doesn't matter, since A). They don't have the money to do what he does and B). He wants to disenfranchise them by ending democracy.
Probably because every stupid mouth shit he takes gets breathlessly printed and discussed around the world.
Billionaire oligarchs are incompatible with democracy, he's just got it backwards like most anti-humanity fascists tend to do
And by "freedom" he doesn't mean your freedom.
Yes. Kant’s positive vs negative liberty applies; small gov advocates like Thiel tend to mean the latter.
We no longer believe that Democracy and Sociopathic Oligarchs can co-exist. We choose Democracy.
I mean no offense, but do you choose that?
What action are you taking towards that end? Because as far as I can tell only a small percentage of the population has rebelled in force, and while they're celebrated online, the vast majority of people have taken no meaningful action.
You're not going to shoot your way out of this problem, Rambo III.
Barney plays the long game actually. He befriends the wealthy and becomes their trusted advisor. He slowly poisons them against everyone until they are all alone and then eventually take their own life.
Billy, you are such a joke...you know nothing of the suffering Barney can cause. Your unimaginative Luigi solutions just show you don't have the guts to do what it takes to destroy someone.
He is right. HIS freedom is not compatible with Democracy.
Not even trying to understand. He's just another bored billionaire trying to stir the pot.
I no longer believe that Peter Thiel and oxygen are compatible.
Eh hope it is otherwise he can't burn.
He's not entirely wrong. In a democracy we vote for people who (in an ideal world) would regulate assholes like him. In his fascist technocracy he'll be able to do whatever the fuck he wants to the rest of us. So in that sense, sure, democracy can put limits on ultimate freedom™©®
....but we kinda want that because fuckbags like thiel exist.
He is absolutely fucking wrong. This tech bro libertarian shit is like the textbook definition of bad philosophy where overconfident smooth brains think in broad strokes instead of reducing ideas to first principles.
His definition of freedom simply doesn't exist, and this is an incredibly common trope in right wingers. He believes he is entitled to benefit from society without understanding the process by which those benefits arise. He misunderstands the distinction between "is" and "ought." And even this is an incredibly gentle critique of a person who gives unhinges PowerPoint presentations about the antichrist which he seems to actually believe. The man is loony tunes. Idk what they had in the water at PayPal back in the day, but him and Musk seem to have unlocked an entirely new level of crazy.
Imagine the pure liquid wealth your company accumulates when it takes 2-3% of a large swath of financial transactions on the Internet. It’s like Visa/MasterCard obscene.
Then imagine someone tells you “no”.
I like that you had the TM C and R.
What democracies do is create freedoms for everyone, true freedoms.
The freedom to choose one’s path of life? Sure! Democracies create that freedom through good, cheap, universal education!
The freedom to be as healthy as possible? Sure! Democracies create that freedom through good, cheap, universal healthcare!
The freedom to have technology help us solve problems? Sure! Democracies create that freedom through effective investments in research and development!
These are just a tase of what democracies do to create true freedom.
They don't do this inherently. What is happening in America shows that often people vote to restrict their own freedoms.
But that's being caused by anti democratic forces.
Democratic countries need to keep progressing.
Concentrated power isn't democratic, there needs to be an always on equalizer.
If we define democracy as voting, then you’re right. However, to understand what I’m saying it’s important to understand what I mean by democracy. I’m using democracy to mean inclusive institutions that invest in their citizens to increase their capabilities and therefore their freedoms.
And you’re right: America is exceptionally un-democratic. You’re actually doubly right: there are democratic backsliding pressures around the world.
It’s a matter of time to see what the more powerful pressures will be: democracy or authoritarian populism.
The evidence powerfully suggests one answer. If you want to know more about this, check out Christian Welzel’s articles on democracy!
Yeah, but usually in trade for something else. Gun laws, building code, mandatory driver licensing, having to pay for that soda pop; these are good restrictions we trade for safety, health, and reliable commerce.
I have no idea what Americans are getting out of the restrictions on freedom they've voted into effect recently.
Mostly it's supremacist validation fed by self-destructive cultural narrative. Which kind of supremacist depends on the individual.
You'd be surprised how many people happily volunteer to suffer so long as they know the people you've convinced them to hate are suffering more.
America is ranked dead-last on most global lists of western functioning democracies, and for good reason.
Americans vote within a republic not a democracy. Republics are famously corrupt
A republic is just a state with an elected head of state. It says nothing else about the political system of te country. Nominally the US is a representiative democratic republic. Of course it is no longer either of those things, but it pretended to be so for a long time.
That is all modern "democracies". There are no countries which run on pure democracy.
Small flaw in your reasoning here. The USA was never a democracy and, indeed, was designed not to be one. Your Founding Fathers held the masses in contempt and deliberately designed a system that would minimize the masses' voice.
French style revolution is the only solution
Daily reminder that 80% of people beheaded were working class.
Yeah, and the all the idealists within the Revolution were quick to crashout when they realised they had no answer on how to lead the nation let alone corral humans in a way THEY deem was best.
I'll do it. I know how best to lead the nation.
Based on your username, I imagine you'd lead us by sun bathing on warm rocks and dry branches while contemptuously pondering the state of existence.
I believe in you!
Not just poorly aimed, but also benighted.
Says the guy who wants to kill the peasants!?
If your freedom depends on others not being free, you really just want the freedom to oppress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Democracy only works when the people is at the wheel, not the oligarchs.
He doesn't mean freedom for the proles. He means his personal total and absolute freedom to exploit other people relentlessly and without consequences.
I don't think Thiel is compatible with freedom, nor democracy. If he died we'd all be better off.
He wants to be king.
Litteraly
Take a good look, folks. This is the face of Anarcho-capitalism. Peter Thiel wants to be your new overlord. Unregulated and unrestrained.
I hate having to use that term. It’s just feudalism without even the illusion of a binding social order.
There’s nothing anarcho about it. This guy wants to be a king. A tyrant.
I no longer believe that MY freedom and YOUR democracy are compatible. So you can't have democracy anymore so I can have my freedom to not be regulated.
We need to stop using PayPal!
No need, just wait until they lock you out of your own account!
After Trump sanctions you for disagreeing with his policies.
It's been 10 years since I got locked out of mine
Yeah, I’m ending my account today
I have used it twice once when Musk was just a billionaire and once after he was removed from paypal, they where 2 different accounts. I have no intention of using it again.
We need to kill this motherfucker, publicly, violently.
It's really kind of sad that these people are surrounded by Yes men for so long that they think every thought they have and everything they say is correct and brilliant.
It's like they've built their own little personal echo chambers.
We humans really are a dumb fragile bag of meat and bones.
Anyone should feel free to utilize the second amendment when this guy appears
These pieces of shit are especially egregious because they promised so much change and hope and opportunity for everyone but all their garbage companies just toed the old line instead of actually "disrupting" anything at all. The only thing they've disrupted is everyone's savings and futures
“I no longer want the restrictions on me that are punitive and serve to protect the masses at my expense.” -Thiel
The sooner we eat this guy the better.
Don't eat this guy. He has used blood boys to try to keep himself young.
That's probably the kind of unregulated shit the gets you exposed to unknown pathogens and such. You don't want to eat that kind of meat.
Food waste the rich.
Force feed the rich to the rich like feeding fois gras to the next goose down the line.
He knows that and fled to Argentina with his family. Ruined our country and know he going to ruin their's.
This has always been the position of the upper class and for that matter a good majority of the founding fathers were openly anti democratic.
Well clearly Peter Thiel has never read Murray Bookchin!
Man, I remember a debate he had with David Graeber (Someone who knew and did read Murray Bookchin). Thiel got absolutely schooled by our late great anthropologist-anarchist. Like utterly trashed by him, in that Graeber wasn't even trying to trash him he was just responding to Thiel's horrid conceits with his casual and playful depth of understanding.
You've gotta look it up on youtube. Thiel had fucking daggers in his eyes. Graeber was just having a good time with it. You cannot completely convince me that Thiel did not have some sort of hand in Graeber's early death.
Well isn't it obvious? Freedom is only compatible with wealthy elites pressing their boots (or the boots of their paid hirelings) against the necks of the people.
He's right. In his own twisted kind of way. Democracy is in the way of the overly rich to take complete control and become dictators. Being a dictator is their ultimate power fantasy of 'true freedom'.
I agree that Democracy is not compatible with his definition of giving the richest people on earth the freedom to have planar authority. So we must get rid of them to save democracy and our own freedom.
It's funny how he calls it a lack of freedoms and we call it laws and human rights.
That's what he has an issue with: human rights and laws.
This Peter Thiel piece of shit doesn’t understand human development. He says freedom and democracy are not compatible, and yet we have decades (and in some cases centuries) of data showing that democracies make people freer.
If I could kindly suggest to that asshole to read one book, I’d suggest he reads Christian Welzel’s Freedom Rising. The book is packed with data that shows how democracies create freedom.
For example, democracies invest in their own people.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. In many, many ways, democracy leads to freedom, true actual freedom.
Really those are socialist democracies.
That all sounds like freedoms for other people. Those don't sound like freedoms Thiel needs.
You know that whole quote about "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." He's concerned about the first part.
well neither is fascism, you damn fascist
and people will still say more aggressive action against these people is unnecessary and that protests are working, they are clearly not given that trump is now trying to eject the georgia senators and their general attacks on election infrastructure.
He thinks he should be free to rule over everyone poorer than hin
Is that why I keep seeing so much pro-China shit on corporate social media like Reddit and Youtube lately?
The capitalists finally realized they weren't actually communist, they just created a hypercapitalist paradise with zero democracy, and they want in on the deal.
Remember it's his vision of freedom and democracy. Which doesn't have freedom and democracy for you and I.
Just so everybody knows, he said this almost 20 years ago
Why is the headline and article about a quote that's almost 2 decades old?
What a coincidence, me neither!
I am forced to agree, and it has made me anti-freedom. I believe democracy would be best served by denying billionaires like Thiel all freedom. Lock them up. Make them a cautionary tale about hubris and unregulated capitalism. If this is what freedom creates, then I don't want freedom anymore. Democracy, on the other hand, is non-negotiable.
He's only saying what many philosophers have said forever.
He means that only the rich need to be free. He's literally stealing personal info and selling it to tye government. A whole school full of little girls can die when these idiots fuck up intelligence.