Society doesn't change when new ideas are brought up, Society changes when old people die.
It was fucking Max Plank!!!
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it ...
Different for each person. Very early if indoctrinated, like religion or peer culture. Some catch it when they transition to working life or overall success and catch the I got mine disease. I'd say it grows fairly early, teens at the latest, and solidifies early 20s. The I got mine crowd can happen late, like 30-40.
My boy is really into cars by default, which is funny since I'd 100% be down with Barbies, too. Daughter though, she just wants Legos and jigsaw puzzles... at age 4. She's just not into gendered stuff, she just wants to build.
I agree, I just have a friend who has 4000 hours on CK2 and 3 and... it's troubling. I'll hop on discord with her and get lots of out of context comments involving incest, lol.
"Please select the toy whose attributes are more likely to statistically correlate with the reproductive caste demographic which has been labeled 'male' by the consensus of Homo Sapiens who speak English."
"Ma'am do you think a college educated sociologist would work at a fast food drive-thru?"
Back when I was a kid, they'd judge your kid and give you whatever they thought corresponded to the kid's genitalia. Even when I heard my mother ask for a car toy I'd end up with a Barbie.
Being constantly disappointed by Barbie toys may have been my first hint I wasn't a girl.
Boys can like barbies too. We can acknowledge that gender stereotyping kid's interests was wrong, while acknowledging that their interests don't always define their gender.
As a trans woman that played with Barbie's in secret as a kid....
We can acknowledge that stereotyping toys is dumb, while also acknowledging that kids like me knew those stereotypes, and did it anyways not knowing why.
It's great to point out its stupid. But is comes really fucking close to denying trans people the signs they were trans young, even we didn't even know it.
Thanks for putting that into words. It felt like I was being told "um, actually, have you considered that disliking Barbie isn't tied to being a boy?" (with an undercurrent of "this reason for thinking you might be trans is invalid".)
I strongly suspect that wasn't the intent of the commenter, they were trying to encourage inclusivity. It just fell flat.
No shit, my boy wanted a Barbie when he was little, so he had a Barbie. He also had Legos, and played with blocks, board games and eventually video games. Let kids play with whatever the fuck they want to, they are exploring.
Yes, but I didn't like Barbie toys. That was my first hint I didn't fit into the gender box that had been prepared for me. I'm not going to retcon my experiences at the age of 4 to fit into a modern concept of how I should have figured out my gender.
Thank you for explaining my experiences at age 4. Here I thought that was when I started figuring out I wasn't a girl but I was clearly wrong and it took you opening my eyes 30 years later. I'm not transgender after all. I can't point to anything in my DNA that makes me trans, therefore I must just be play acting my gender. I was a girl that didn't like Barbie and everything else has been a lie fed to me by the woke liberalism of the 90s. /sarcasm
Some McDs will sell just the toys. Ita been a bit since I bought one but they are probably like $2 for a toy only. Also you will have to wait while the employee tries to figure out where the hidden menu button is that has "Toy only."
The customer is implying that it is obvious between a barbie and a hot wheels which is gendered for boys. So instead of saying which toy they want, they are expecting the employee to identify which is for boys. It's a subtle way of reinforcing gender binary and societal expectations of what is "appropriate" for children to want to play with.
More confusing is why a retail employee would try to proselytize a random customer this way. It is perfectly clear what toy is wanted, the employee just decides to be obtuse about it. There is no positive outcome here, best case the customer gets annoyed with you, worst case they get really mad and involve your superiors.
As an autistic, I genuinely wouldn't know and a customer telling me "boy toy" would've meant literally nothing to me. Nothing political or whatever, I honestly would very awkwardly be like "can you please let me know which one of the given options you consider that to be?" or I would panic and ask a coworker to take over that particular customer.
What I mean to say is, trying to proselytize isn't the only option of how this kind of a scenario could be happening
Though in your situation i would assume you just figured that out after the first one or two customers asking for it this way, since that sort of (subconscious) thinking is still fairly prevalent.
I totally understand wanting to help promote a more differentiated thinking when it comes to gender norms, but i am also quite sure fast food customers are not a very receptive audience.
Same as retail/CS workers just wanting to do their job, not get chatted up/hit on/etc., the customers just want their food.
I would say what I want, but I would get banned because the mods are prejudiced against the nature of my mental illness which directly impacts the content of of character. I love all of you. I'll just sit on this park bench and cry because I'm an inferior that cannot play by the rules. That's the nature of being schizoaffective. I am capricious af, and thus in social media, I am subhuman to most people by default.
We all know that this is a made-up conversation which could have taken place only in the twisted mind of some rich feminist goodperson but not in reality. Why would she risk her job over such bullshit, she’s there to make money and not to educate people.
it's funny you assumed the worker was a woman even tho there's no indication of that in the post
hey so why are you in this sublemmy again? didn't you read the rules in the sidebar? take your bigoted bullshit elsewhere. you sound like exactly the worst kind of boss to work for. All Capitalists Are Bastards
Careful, peasant. Remember where the money in your account is coming from. At least I treat my people well and pay fair wages (as long as they do as I demand of course).
The customers behind certainly enjoyed waiting while she was needlessly making a scene by intentionally pretending to misunderstand a perfectly valid request that didn’t fit into her puny world picture. Pathetic.
Then don't follow them. This is my number one gripe since moving to the US, if company policies are stupid, you don't follow them, whereas in the US, it's too bad since it's company policy.
I know it's due to more fear of being fired, but still, it's so annoying to be in a situation where neither of us wants to follow the policies and yet you're enforcing them.
98 replies
Well, good news, I asked each toy their pronouns and neither responded, so I guess the meds are working. Now, do you want a hot wheels or a barbie?
Those people will eventually grow old and die while their children grow up to be slightly less conservative (on average).
Progress is coming. One funeral at the time.
That's what I thought 20 years ago but today I am not so sure :(
For real, the older I get the more sure I am this is part of an endless struggle.
I like to think we're 2 steps forward and 1 step back kind of species
I like to think we're 2 steps forward and 1 step back kind of species
Right wing propaganda is a helluva drug.
not sure whi said this
Society doesn't change when new ideas are brought up, Society changes when old people die.
It was fucking Max Plank!!!
Close enough
At what age do people catch conservatism? Is there a vaccine?
Different for each person. Very early if indoctrinated, like religion or peer culture. Some catch it when they transition to working life or overall success and catch the I got mine disease. I'd say it grows fairly early, teens at the latest, and solidifies early 20s. The I got mine crowd can happen late, like 30-40.
Generally the age when they start to feel overwhelming fear of change and the unfamiliar. Exposure therapy is probably the best cure.
That is unfortunately not how anything works. These people were young as well once, and that didn't stop them from becoming conservative.
My boy is really into cars by default, which is funny since I'd 100% be down with Barbies, too. Daughter though, she just wants Legos and jigsaw puzzles... at age 4. She's just not into gendered stuff, she just wants to build.
She yearns for the mines
No she yearns for the skyscrapers
Why not both? Lol
Hoch- und Tiefbau as we call it in german ... not sure how to translate this ... "building up and down"?
Genau
high and low builds
City skylines or factorio when she starts playing video games?
I need to know if she's in my team or the other team (the other team is just way smarter than me, there's no bad blood <3)
Hey I'm wondering what her team will be too, although I'm more of an expert pack Minecrafter myself (so probably factorio or satisfactory lol).
Watch her end up more a Crusader Kings 3 though like a friend of mine... Lol
Victoria 3 and Europa Universalis V are both great, and better than CK3 imo.
Less incest too
I agree, I just have a friend who has 4000 hours on CK2 and 3 and... it's troubling. I'll hop on discord with her and get lots of out of context comments involving incest, lol.
Infinifactory it is
It's a damn child, how dare you put this evil on her at such a young age.
SimCity 2000.
Found the future engineer
Or architect.
Don't let her read Fountain head
This is just good advice for anyone in general.
"Please select the toy whose attributes are more likely to statistically correlate with the reproductive caste demographic which has been labeled 'male' by the consensus of Homo Sapiens who speak English."
"Ma'am do you think a college educated sociologist would work at a fast food drive-thru?"
"In this economy? Absolutely, yes."
"..."
"..."
"...okay fair, I'll put the toy car in the bag."
You didn't need the "in this economy" part tbh
Hmm. Yeah, I think you're right. If I share this with friends online anywhere else I'll leave it out.
I meqn, i agree but they play different games and this is why both are necessary.
Hot Wheels are so much fun as an adult.
Hot wheels are absolutely not cooler than Barbie
bro has never seen acceleracers
They may be neat but they’re not cool
They are metal, Barbies are plastic. They are the same temperature, but feel cooler.
If they could cool down they’d just be wheels
This is the person who also throws a bitch fit when a video game asks them if they want body type a or b in the character creator.
But they happily use their USB type C. Hypocrites
Back when I was a kid, they'd judge your kid and give you whatever they thought corresponded to the kid's genitalia. Even when I heard my mother ask for a car toy I'd end up with a Barbie.
Being constantly disappointed by Barbie toys may have been my first hint I wasn't a girl.
Boys can like barbies too. We can acknowledge that gender stereotyping kid's interests was wrong, while acknowledging that their interests don't always define their gender.
As a trans woman that played with Barbie's in secret as a kid....
We can acknowledge that stereotyping toys is dumb, while also acknowledging that kids like me knew those stereotypes, and did it anyways not knowing why.
It's great to point out its stupid. But is comes really fucking close to denying trans people the signs they were trans young, even we didn't even know it.
Thanks for putting that into words. It felt like I was being told "um, actually, have you considered that disliking Barbie isn't tied to being a boy?" (with an undercurrent of "this reason for thinking you might be trans is invalid".)
I strongly suspect that wasn't the intent of the commenter, they were trying to encourage inclusivity. It just fell flat.
No shit, my boy wanted a Barbie when he was little, so he had a Barbie. He also had Legos, and played with blocks, board games and eventually video games. Let kids play with whatever the fuck they want to, they are exploring.
This right TF here. He-Man, She-Ra, G.I.-Joe and My Little Pony were all part of the same universe when they were toys on my floor.
Yes, but I didn't like Barbie toys. That was my first hint I didn't fit into the gender box that had been prepared for me. I'm not going to retcon my experiences at the age of 4 to fit into a modern concept of how I should have figured out my gender.
That was me, too. I ended up just tossing this whole gender concept out.
I have to say, the hot wheels were hot wheels and the Barbies were ugly statues. One was superior.
Exactly. Moving parts vs a hunk of plastic to toss in a drawer.
Thank you for explaining my experiences at age 4. Here I thought that was when I started figuring out I wasn't a girl but I was clearly wrong and it took you opening my eyes 30 years later. I'm not transgender after all. I can't point to anything in my DNA that makes me trans, therefore I must just be play acting my gender. I was a girl that didn't like Barbie and everything else has been a lie fed to me by the woke liberalism of the 90s. /sarcasm
If only actually DOING this wouldn't get your ass fired.
I would argue with ma boss "i don't know which is supposed to be a boy toy to be honest, we only have hot wheels and barbies"
I think it may actually be company policy not to do do this, at least for some time. Because they don't want to get in trouble for assuming.
Do I have to order food to get a boy toy?
No there are other ways to get one, but food certainly helps
I mean it's a surefire way to get my, but ymmv
Some McDs will sell just the toys. Ita been a bit since I bought one but they are probably like $2 for a toy only. Also you will have to wait while the employee tries to figure out where the hidden menu button is that has "Toy only."
I think @Zier meant sth else wuth 'boy toy' lol
This is a confusing conversation. Why couldn’t they say Hot Wheels?
Sexism.
What do you mean? Why does sexism prevent them from asking for the toy by name?
The customer is implying that it is obvious between a barbie and a hot wheels which is gendered for boys. So instead of saying which toy they want, they are expecting the employee to identify which is for boys. It's a subtle way of reinforcing gender binary and societal expectations of what is "appropriate" for children to want to play with.
More confusing is why a retail employee would try to proselytize a random customer this way. It is perfectly clear what toy is wanted, the employee just decides to be obtuse about it. There is no positive outcome here, best case the customer gets annoyed with you, worst case they get really mad and involve your superiors.
As an autistic, I genuinely wouldn't know and a customer telling me "boy toy" would've meant literally nothing to me. Nothing political or whatever, I honestly would very awkwardly be like "can you please let me know which one of the given options you consider that to be?" or I would panic and ask a coworker to take over that particular customer.
What I mean to say is, trying to proselytize isn't the only option of how this kind of a scenario could be happening
Fair enough, i hadnt considered that.
Though in your situation i would assume you just figured that out after the first one or two customers asking for it this way, since that sort of (subconscious) thinking is still fairly prevalent.
I totally understand wanting to help promote a more differentiated thinking when it comes to gender norms, but i am also quite sure fast food customers are not a very receptive audience. Same as retail/CS workers just wanting to do their job, not get chatted up/hit on/etc., the customers just want their food.
Simple solution.
Put a Ken toy in the box.
I think she was quite clear
Chelsea is a great enby name.
Maybe the customer identified as male and wanted the toy for themselves?
I would say what I want, but I would get banned because the mods are prejudiced against the nature of my mental illness which directly impacts the content of of character. I love all of you. I'll just sit on this park bench and cry because I'm an inferior that cannot play by the rules. That's the nature of being schizoaffective. I am capricious af, and thus in social media, I am subhuman to most people by default.
Now thats a shizo post
You know what she means, just give her the car and be done with it, take your entitled world improvement bullshit elsewhere.
Nothing says "entitled" like working at a fast food chain
We all know that this is a made-up conversation which could have taken place only in the twisted mind of some rich feminist goodperson but not in reality. Why would she risk her job over such bullshit, she’s there to make money and not to educate people.
Spoken like someone who never worked a counter. Being literal to customers is one of the few "entitlements" you have in that position
ooooh, look mom, a reactionarism
Or someone who has some experience with what little boys usually like to play with
You spend lots of time playing with little boys, then?
Aw, having some big feelings today?
Oh, so you're one of those customers.
Okay, so are you petit-bourgeoisie or a straw-boss?
Imagine being so lonely, weak, and friendless, that you try to bully strangers on the internet. Like be for real bro.
it's funny you assumed the worker was a woman even tho there's no indication of that in the post
hey so why are you in this sublemmy again? didn't you read the rules in the sidebar? take your bigoted bullshit elsewhere. you sound like exactly the worst kind of boss to work for. All Capitalists Are Bastards
Careful, peasant. Remember where the money in your account is coming from. At least I treat my people well and pay fair wages (as long as they do as I demand of course).
lmao
also joke's on you i'm unemployed 😎
Uh your money comes from your workers.
You might want to be careful. The guillotine is always an option.
I'd love for you to go into more detail about what you meant be this
no
say which toy you want or gtfo
The customers behind certainly enjoyed waiting while she was needlessly making a scene by intentionally pretending to misunderstand a perfectly valid request that didn’t fit into her puny world picture. Pathetic.
ah yes, the notoriously closed-minded worldview of... supporting feminism and trans rights 🧐
The fact that a tiny fraction of people are trans doesn’t mean that, in general, boys can’t be expected to behave like boys.
And if the franchise has policies against gendering toys?
Then don't follow them. This is my number one gripe since moving to the US, if company policies are stupid, you don't follow them, whereas in the US, it's too bad since it's company policy.
I know it's due to more fear of being fired, but still, it's so annoying to be in a situation where neither of us wants to follow the policies and yet you're enforcing them.
Why is a policy mandating that kids get to choose which toy they get instead of it being chosen based on what's between their legs a bad thing?
It's not the policy, it's knowing when to enforce it and when to treat it as guidance.