Eh, I bought a $142K house and my property taxes plus homeowner's insurance come to $4800 a year, which is $400 a month. What's insane is the condominiums in my district -- over $200K for a 2BR 1BA and you pay the larger property taxes and insurance and you pay condo fees of $800 to $900 a month, and cross your fingers that you don't get hit with any special assessments. You're basically paying $1600 a month to rent your own home.
This account is 100% rage bait. Look up the account. It's all posts like this, same formatting, tone, similar themes.
It's all bullshit, he contradicts himself constantly.
There's also a community note that the account is based in Africa.
Edit to address replies:
First of all, first months rent and security deposit shouldn't factor in. You get your security deposit back from your current place if you haven't trashed it, and you're already paying rent, so the new apartments rent isn't an additional cost. In fact, if you're moving somewhere cheaper, you'll save money that first month.
Yes, you might have to pay those way before you move in, and there might be a delay getting the old deposit back, so you need more money up front to cover it. But if you don't have two months' rent in savings, credit, investments, etc? You are absolutely living beyond your means. I know I'll get shit on for this, but that's really not a lot to save.
Application fees include credit checks everywhere I've ever lived. Here they are capped at like $25 I think? It sucks but it's not the end of the world. Never had to pay a deposit on utilities and my credit is shit.
It doesn't mean that the scenario he described isn't authentic. I've experienced it myself several times in my life.
He may have framed his story as an actual thing that happened to him, but that isn't important. What's important is that he laid out the parameters for a discussion on the problems with switching rental properties, and a substantive discussion followed. The discussion is the point, not how the premise was presented.
There are lots of awful things that happen in America. Bringing them up for discussion is not automatically rage bait just because it makes you angry. Rage Bait is when you give it a misleading, anger-inducing headline, just to get someone to click on it, and then see advertising. That's Rage BAIT. What is this BAITING us into? A discussion about the economics of moving?
I had a neighbor in my old apartment complex who was looking to buy a house the same time I was. I was lucky enough to get approved for a mortgage at a good rate for a good amount, where as he was not approved for a loan which would have cost him $900 a month in loan payments. He didn't have a choice and continued to rent at $1300 a month. Just in case you didn't catch that, he pays $1300 a month in rent, but the bank wouldn't approve him for a loan for $900/month. How is that fair in any way?
Leaving aside the issue of credit rating and focusing just on the cost of home ownership, a house costs a lot more than just the mortgage payment. I bought my house for $142K and it had previously been renting for $1300 a month. My property taxes plus homeowner's insurance alone come to $400 a month, so if I had a $900 per month mortgage I'd be at $1300 a month minimum, before considering the cost of maintenance and repairs and upgrades and whatnot.
Then there's the Application Fee Scam. They charge you a non-refundable $50 per person, sometimes more, just to apply. In my case, that's $150, which goes to the Property Manager. So the property manager is motivated to take as many applications, and turn them down, as possible. They can easily make far more in application fees than whatever fee they collect from actually renting out the place.
After spending hundreds, only to get turned down within minutes ("Here's $150...oh, it's a No?), I learned to only deal with the person who OWNS the property, no property managers, real estate companies, etc.
Reasons for being turned down? Usually none given. Once it was because of my "criminal record" - a speeding ticket two years before. Goodbye $150.
Then you get approved, to pay 50% of your income to live in a place that wouldn't pass any kind of inspection, so the ceiling leaks and ruins most of your possessions, this happened in 2 different locations.
It's important to stay on good terms with friends and family so they will help you when shit like this arises. So you can move back in with mom and dad, or couch surf for a while.
Sadly, for too many people, there is no help, and they end up homeless.
nothing against you, but coming from a shit background this read to me as, "pretend to like people you actually dont so you can use them in the future". aye..... yeah, ive been homless :/
So many people are on the edge themselves, and taking on one more mouth to feed, use water and electricity, less privacy, less convenience, etc. might push them over the edge, too.
Moving has always been a huge financial set back for me. It's why some degree of rent control is important as renters are in many ways trapped. It's also super depressing to move to lower rent housing. As you age there's a societal and self imposed expectation of financial progress, paying a bunch to move to lower rent housing is a double tap.
That lower rent housing could still feel like financial progress. If it meets your needs still, you now have more money to spend on things that aren't housing. I've seen some older couples sell their larger homes and move into small apartments or houses. It cuts back on their costs, maintainance demands, and frees up money for other things like better wine, gifts for the kids, or vacations.
I think they meant they are spending the same rent but getting a lower quality place, in multiple ways. So there isn't more money, just a distinct lower quality of life at the same money.
"Paying a bunch to move to lower rent housing" implies the rent is lower, if its about quality they would have specified paying the same rent to get a worse place.
If they are moving because their current rent went up, and they are moving into a place with the same as their old rent, then they are still moving into a lower rent place.
Then perhaps we should, you know, consider sources?
I'm sorry, this is not personal, but Lemmy/Piefed complains about slop constantly. It's why we're here!
Yet they proceed to upvote it onto the front page, every day. Nothing happens when I point it out. Mods don't do anything, the same posters and communities just keep doing it.
Its frustrating because I love the idea of Lemmy/Piefed, but this is poison for the same reason its poison on Twitter.
Also double-dipping on my comment but that's why I make a blocklist of all the politics and doomer sublemmys (or whatever they're called). But there's always new ones popping up it's not a sustainable solution.
Btw, I don't have a problem with politics but it is impossible to have a nuanced discussion on politics on social media so no point reading the 24/7 doomer headlines and then scrolling through partisan idiots bickering in the comments.
I don't think we can do anything about it until we solve human verification. Not only is human verification a really hard problem to solve (and also while respecting user privacy), there is a for-profit motive to fill the internet with crap (advertisement industry & state propaganda)
Because the message isn't offensive, and people (probably) didn't know it was bot content because they aren't in the habit of checking the background of posts.
Rhetorical questions only really work when, in reconsidering the question, the absurdity or indefensibility of the situation being questioned comes to light.
Just because it's a bot doesn't make the validity of the message any less. It just means OP should clip out the account's name.
Just because it’s a bot doesn’t make the validity of the message any less. It just means OP should clip out the account’s name.
But it's fake.
It's a story, fabricated soley to farm retweets. It is fiction.
If you label it as "made up story?" Sure. That's fine. It's the truth. But then its not getting to the front page because it doesn't have the appearance of authenticity.
A parable is fake too. The point here isn't commiserating with a real person's real financial problem. It resonates with the truth of financial strain people feel in their own lives.
Do you think there isn't a person alive somewhere in the US that has been priced out of their apartment? Do you think the fees (not the amount it costs) tacked on to applying for a new rental apartment are fake?
As someone who was priced out of regular rentals: I can assure you, they are not.
Edit: and I'm not claiming we should all just repost bot farm content. I'm saying it's not surprising a populist message echoing people's struggles is being upvoted. And acting incredulous about that fact doesn't change anything.
You're dodging the issue I have. I'm not arguing with the "resonation of truth." No one here is arguing with the message.
It's presented as real.
That's the problem. This is upvoted for its apparent authenticity, and it. Is. Not. Real. It's a story.
...Look, tell me this. Lets say you're OP. You found this post yourself, you posted it, but later you found out it's a content farm account. Which would you do:
A: Edit it. Label it as such in the title.
B: Keep it as is.
C: Something else. Delete it?
And yes, you could post a comment, but the vast majority of viewers wouldn't see that. You could crop out the poster, but that's giving no indication the post isn't authentic.
I'm not dodging the issue. You even copied a quote of me facing the "issue."
Just because it's a bot doesn't make the validity of the message any less. It just means OP should clip out the account's name.[emphasis added onto original text]
It's presented as a tweet. Whether or not you trust any tweet is a personal decision. You yourself, unless you have a habit of checking the background of every tweet picture posted, decided not to trust this one.
You keep saying it's upvoted for its authenticity and I keep saying that's not the case. If this was framed as a hypothetical, it would get much the same reception because they aren't saying "wow, it's sad this destitute man is having trouble renting a new home. We should make things better for real people like Jeremy. "
They're probably thinking, "fuck yeah, I feel that. Shit's expensive out here for everybody."
You keep saying it’s upvoted for its authenticity and I keep saying that’s not the case. If this was framed as a hypothetical, it would get much the same reception because they aren’t saying "wow, it’s sad this destitute man is having trouble renting a new home. We should make things better for real people like Jeremy. "
I dispute this.
Post a similar Tweet, like this, but label it as "hypothetical" right in the title. Not as a comment or mention, but smack where people see it before they read the Tweet.
It might get some upvotes, but I'm positive it wouldn't make it to #1 on the front page.
It’s presented as a tweet. Whether or not you trust any tweet is a personal decision.
I think this is disingenuous too.
...Do you really think, when most people are reading this post, their initial thought is. "Huh, a tweet. I dunno if this Jeremy guy is real, let me consider that... Eh, I like the sentiment anyway. Upvote."
That's nonsense.
No one even checked and posted about it until now, apparently.
It's not a choice. Most never knew to choose! The Tweet is worded as if a real person describing their situation, so that's what the initial assumption will be.
Just because it’s a bot doesn’t make the validity of the message any less. It just means OP should clip out the account’s name.[emphasis added onto original text]
And this does nothing.
It removes attribution. But it does nothing to suggest the Tweet isn't authentic.
...And you didn't answer my question, I don't think.
To be clear, if you were OP of this post, what would you do now? Just remove the author, that's it?
...Do you really think, when most people are reading this post, their initial thought is. "Huh, a tweet. I dunno if this Jeremy guy is real, let me consider that... Eh, I like the sentiment anyway. Upvote."
I didn't even read the account's name until your comment (I also didn't upvote because I don't upvote a post unless it's small and/or I really like it).
I try to not extend my experience as "normative" to other people but I don't believe people are giving names much credence unless they're famous.
To be clear, if you were OP of this post, what would you do now? Just remove the author, that's it?
Idk if you can hotswap the content of a post. If I learned after posting, I'd probably just delete the post because I don't feel strongly enough to put the work into editing and reposting. I wouldn't have even posted this in the first place because I don't think this is novel enough to be posting. That's almost besides the pount but you asked for personal opinions.
If I knew beforehand (and was possessed of a desire to share this), yeah, I'd just cut out the account name.
I agree the tweet form factor drives engagement for some reason, but if the username were "fake-anti-capitalist-tweets" with a blue thumbs up icon, I'm certain it would have moved in much the same ways.
You won't believe this but literally every parable and nearly every single thing written in history is made up. There was no Sodom and Gomorrah, there was no Ark, there was no giant horse to invade Troy, Cleopatra wasn't hot, Alexander wasn't that Great, Paul probably didn't exist, etc.
But the reason humans tell stories is to illustrate something. This may have been a bot just reposting sentiment, but it still got that sentiment from somewhere. In fact this "story" as you call it has been going around the internet longer than you've been alive based on your comments in this thread. It's a common problem. And one ignored by pretty much everyone in power and their fans.
That's the most defeatist argument I've heard. "The stories of history are fake, most of the internet is fake, so we're justified in presenting a made-up story as real, like we've been doing all along."
I'm sorry. I'm not supporting an obvious engagement farm just because it "illustrates something" worthwhile. That's the fundamental reason why the internet is in such a horrendous state right.
To be clear, I have no problem with stories, or even "embellished history," if they're labeled as such. I mean, I know history is a interpreted construct with embellishment, that was middle school history class.
But this is presented as an example of a real human being's experience. It's why people are upvoting it.
The 'sentiment,' aka the circumstances being lamented, are 100% factual.
The story might not be.
If I write about how I tried and failed to move faster than the speed of light by lighting my farts on fire, the story is fake, but it's factual. I would not ever be able to move faster than the speed of light by lighting my farts on fire. Everyone can understand that, as long as they have a reference of the amount of energy generated by flaming farts and a reference for what the speed of light is and the amount of energy that it requires to get there.
Renting in the united states requires at minimum 3x the monthly rent to be paid upfront, usually 4x the monthly rent, along with a non-refundable application fee which often is just lost and denied. If I write a story about how a anthropomorphic bunny is having a hard time renting due to not being able to raise enough money on only fans to handle these ridiculous requirements, the story is still factual and makes a point about the real circumstances in this world regardless of the fact anthropomorphic bunnies have not been proven to exist yet.
So yes, it would get upvoted despite taking liberties with the exact details and thus being a fictionalized version of reality that uses facts from reality to make a point.
I suppose the real problem I have with your critique is that it's pointless to attack an AI version of a meme because of the content of the meme which has been reposted in a million ways by humans before you found your way onto the internet, instead of attacking the fact it's just an AI powered repost of a true meme.
Does the source impact the message? This is the reality of a large part of the working class, so regardless where it comes from the truth is still the same
Then label it so. Indicate its a made-up source, as a tag in the title.
I have no problem with a message. But do you really think people would upvote this if they knew it was a "message" from ChatGPT or something, just to make this account a buck? Isn't that a bit ironic, in this community?
Of course not. The Tweeter has already made their cash, and you’re dodging the point.
Its too late now (as the post has already made its rounds), but its about exposing Lemmy to a fake post.
It was a pretty simple choice. Do you value information hygiene and truthful presentation, or the message itself, more? Does the veracity of the source it comes from matter? Would you mislead Lemmy viewers if it’s for the right message?
Yeah, and it's not the excuse that landlords need to keep up with costs, either, since most landlords are huge corporations, and costs don't increase that fast. Land values plateaued years ago, so taxes aren't ballooning or anything like that anymore. I was lucky enough to have help with a down payment, so I now own, but that's rare, especially in my city where house/land costs are way higher than their value due to the limited supply, which is mostly due to all the properties that are forever unoccupied as investment property or are mostly unlivable, and building material costs have made it too expensive to repair.
In Spain you get a paid vacation day for moving. You just show your lease contract and you get the first day of the lease off.
But you usually have to pay first month up front and put in a security deposit. It used to also be that you had to pay a fee to the agency. The law now says that the landlord pays that fee but sometimes they will still say it o you. You can either pay or keep looking.
So worst case you need 3x the rent to move. Best case you just put in the security deposit which you get back at the end of the contract.
You just need residency. Which basically means you just need a job. But keep in mind that the right is on the rise here, like everywhere else, so most likely in a couple of years a lot of progress made here will also be rolled back. I think EU is still great place to be long term, just don't focus on current situation too much when choosing where to go. Things will change.
Sidebar, I'm a big fan of a minimal life aka having as little stuff as possible. My truck can hold all my stuff for a one trip move. If I didn't have that then there's the $20 daily van rentals which are honestly going to be like $60 all said and done. If I couldn't afford a deposit and first months rent on an apartment then I could rent a room. I've also been tempted to get a cheap trailer for an RV park. Finally there's the option of taking on a roommate. In college we had two people to each room and a guy with a makeshift wall renting the living room. Is it glamorous? Hell no. Could things be better? Hell yeah. Is it better than living out of my truck or on the street? Most definitely.
Same, until I buy a house there's no reason to litter my life with bullshit that just needs to get moved between apartment to apartment. And yea, I've been considering the van life / RV life too. Depending on where you're at financially, the cost of van loan may be far less than what you were ever paying in rent. Of course: I am incredibly blessed and privileged enough to have a completely remote job.
Paid to the utility company itself to get services turned on for the first time in your name (and typically not paid again when you move, as long as you transfer your service to the new address), its usually returned to you via a credit to your bill after 3-12 months of service depending on the utility company.
Wow, well, I can tell you I've never heard of this as a US native who has lived across multiple states, at least. I thought it should say "security deposit."
Yeah, I missed sec. dep. the first time. I still have never heard of utility deposits, though it also seems according to someone else here that they're only for people with bad credit, so I guess that's why.
I used to suggest committing a crime and getting to jail (if government cannot manage the country economy, at least they could support you with food and shelter).
Then someone told me there is a waiting list for prisons in USA...
This post heavily inflates the numbers to maximize the drama.
First month's rent: That's not an added moving expense. You pay rent every month regardless of where you live.
Moving truck: If money is tight, you rent a cheap van and move yourself with friends like everyone else.
Yes, having the cash upfront for a new deposit while waiting for the old one to return is a real liquidity trap. But framing $4,000 as the absolute baseline to escape a rent increase is pure ragebait. It makes the poster sound like someone who has never actually had to do a budget, DIY move.
Well first month's fee and security deposit are annoying but they're one of payments to get away from a increased recurring payment, so yeah it's a pain but it's still worth doing it.
I've never been understood who people who get moving trucks, you can rent a truck for less than the cost of a moving company.
Moving to a cheaper place across town only takes a day if you box everything up ahead of time; no need to request time off. The truck rental is going to be under $100 after milage and any other fee. If you're moving from one rental to another you should be getting back a security deposit which, after a short delay, pays for the new security deposit. The same goes for any utility deposits. The application fee is the credit check fee.
Completely missing the point. They want to move because they can't afford another $300 per month, but you think they have the cash for a security deposit, AND first/last month's rent, AND that their security deposit, which is only a month's rent, and which they won't see for over a month, if ever, will somehow cover it?
And we won't even get into the Application Scam, which I wrote about in another post.
You have no idea how most people live in this country.
You want them to calm down, when you first came in, intentionally or not, like the most arrogant prick.
If you dont understand poverty, dont talk about it
$4K is based in my reality. Ive been there. To start, my truck rental has been $200 bucks each time with gas and other fees, so youre numbers are not in reality. Hows that?
This guy gets it. I once had to move 6 years in a row, all completely out of my hands (landlord sold the property, wanted it for their newly married daughter, wanted to turn it into an Air B&B, etc.). It was a serious financial hit every time, killing whatever savings I had for the year.
I still always keep the latest calculations in my head for what it would take to move, compared to my savings, just in case I get a call from my landlord that he's not renewing the lease because he's selling the property, and the new owners want to turn it into a law office or something (happened to me).
I used to have panic attacks, like one time my car battery died, and I couldnt immediately afford to fix it, Id spiral out, "imma be homeless" because if I cant get to work, Im gonna get fired, then I cant pay my bills, and Im end up on the street again. Full blown panic attacks because of a $200 surprise car fee.
WTF? I'm plenty calm, you just don't have a clue what you are talking about.
It depends on where you live, but $4000 is unrealistic nearly everywhere. The last time I moved in NYC, it was over $7000, and that was 8 years ago. I am also very familiar with rents in Orlando. A modest $1800 a month rent would cost $1800x3(security deposit/ first/ last), and then pet deposits, application fees, moving expenses, etc., so at least $5400+, and probably another $1000 -1500 on top of that. If your credit isn't great, you may even have to pay a double security deposit (a common scam), so add on another $1800. Those numbers are common in large metropolitan areas, where MOST people live.
All of those extra fees are not only plausible, but likely. You ain't getting away with having a cat without an extra $500 non-refundable fee, per cat. Last time, we paid for two cats, even though we had five. We knew they'd all hide under the bed when the landlord visited, and he'd never figure out how many we really had. And again, find my post on the Application Fee Scam. I lost hundreds of dollars to that before I stopped working with Property Managers, and only dealt directly with landlords.
At $4000, the place would have to be less than $1000 per month. That might only get you a spare room in someone's house, in most places. No more than a studio anywhere else, and probably not a good one.
You are again calculating a deposit as a non-refundable fee rather than... a deposit. Your numbers are off by a few thousand because of this.
Okay, so, New York City. Let's look up the price of renting a 15' Uhaul in Manhattan. Should be expensive, right? Hmm, it's only $30 + $2.50 a mile if you rented one today. I mean, you could spring for a 16' Penske truck for $50, but they won't let me link to the quote.
So I don't know what kind of premium moving service you used or what kind of damage you did to your previous rentals that made you keep losing deposits, but typically you get those back. You're counting the first month's rent as a huge fee when in reality you are saving $300 by switching to that as opposed to continuing to pay where you're at.
Rents go up when leases renew so this isn't some unforseen natural disaster. You aren't paying for two rentals at the same time either because you're switching when your lease is up.
Typically same-city moves don't have different utility servicers so any deposits you have with them are either transferable or comparable. The whole move washes out nearly even, aside from literally moving your shit and the fee on a background check for the new place.
Dude, you are acting like the moving truck is the primary expense. It's not. I rent trucks OFTEN in my job (multiple times a month), I know exactly what the expenses are. It would cost me at least $200, and that's with a commercial account that is $40 a day, plus insurance ($30), and .17 a mile, plus gas ($75). And don't go through any tolls, that's a $16 service charge, before the toll. Not the biggest expense, but $200 is real money to many.
You are also assuming that you will get your security deposit back. No landlord wants to return the security deposit, and most of the time I've had to fight for it, and even then I usually get less than the total. A couple of times I got nothing, and the state allowed it. I did no damage at all (we treat every rental like it's ours, we aren't pigs), and yet somehow I get charged for all the normal maintenance like painting, carpets, HVAC, etc.
And even if you do get it back, it's well over a month later, longer, if you dispute it, or have to chase it. That money is not available when you are negotiating for your new apartment, and no landlord wants to hear that you'll give it to him when you get it. He knows your last landlord is going to try to stiff you, because he's going to do the same thing when you move out. The best I was ever able to negotiate was to break up the security deposit into thirds, and pay a third on top of my new rent for the next three months. So now my rent is 33% higher for a while.
And many areas have multiple utility companies. Depending on where I'd move in my town, it is very possible that I'd have to get a new electric company, and almost certainly a new water company (very localized, mostly just the county). I'm lucky that I've never had to pay deposits for utilities, despite their occasional threats.
Not everybody has access to easy credit, so if they don't have the cash in hand, they don't have the money, period.
Your flippant attitude is enormously offensive. You have no idea how many people are on the edge of homelessness every day, for YEARS. You can't seem to understand that things like moving costs are onerous to many people, and it doesn't just "wash out nearly even," for them. Even a $100 moving expense can require enormous sacrifice to cover.
You could use some Critical Thinking Skills, and Empathy. You're are seriously short on both.
You just can't help a good appeal to authority, can you? I could just as easily claim to be the owner of a moving company with 40 years of industry experience. That I know all the costs of moving down to the price of wiper blades on a moving van. You see how that means nothing?
I will concede that there may be road tolls or other hyper-specific circumstances for certain localities. Though, like your personal anecdotes, they aren't representative of the norm. NYC is one of the most unique places on Earth and is a poor representation of what "most people" go through other than trying to make the argument that a lot of people live there.
I don't know what else to say other than if you paid $7000 to move in NYC you were bamboozled. That's more than what it costs to move shipping container all the way from the west coast to NYC.
I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of it because what I said previously still stands. A crooked landlord trying to steal a deposit is a whole other circumstantial argument.
Yeah, when someone doesn't agree, and offers credentials as proof of knowledge, just blow it off as a hoax, like MAGA. Or worse, mock my perfectly reasonable, and accurate numbers, based on actual real world experience, just because they don't agree with speculative numbers you pulled out of your dumb ass, you dumbass.
My apartment in NYC was $2000 per month when I moved in. Security Deposit/First/Last is $6000 right away. Is it so hard to believe that there would be another $1000 in moving expenses? Especially when you add in $150 application fee, $200 pet fee, etc.
And on top of all that, something I forgot about in my first post - until last year, you could also expect to pay a Broker Fee, which was one month's rent, to the agent who found the apartment for you. That made it $8000 just to start, before moving expenses. I tried doing it without a Broker Fee, but you only see the shittiest apartments that way. Luckily, my landlord allowed me to break up my security deposit over a few months.
Today, that apartment is $2500, so Security/First/Last is $7500 - to start. $10,000, with a broker fee.
And NYC is NOT unique. I have a home in Orlando, too, and that same apartment would be at least $1800 there, so we're still well over $5000 just to start talking. They don't have Broker Fees here, so they abuse the application fee egregiously. You can expect to get turned down several times before you get approved, just because they'd rather collect application fees. There absolutely no laws restricting it.
Your understanding of rental expenses seems so naive that I have to wonder if you have you ever actually rented an apartment before?
Tenant rights in some states allow you to get double or triple your deposit back if your landlord tries to fuck you out of it. If your payments are undocumented then you have bigger problems than retrieving your deposit.
Counting first month rent as a "moving cost" is disingenuous IMO. That money isnt for moving but for paying for the place for a month. Now needing the captial to provide first and last, thats defintely a factor.
I've moved a dozen times because of rent increases and all these cost are BS. Maybe a $60 application fee and $150 to rent a Uhaul for the day. Before I had Uhaul money, I moved an entire apartment twice in a friends pickup truck (multiple trips). Security deposits suck, but I have always gotten 100% of my security deposit back by cleaning better than I found it, and having move-in and move-out pictures. I mean sometimes you do have to work to save money, but it is not a lost cause.
When i moved from my apartment to my house, i lined up the closing date to only have 2 weeks of overlap with my rent rather than a full month. I was able to use my work van to do multiple trips over the evenings to move my stuff and prep the house. This let me not take any time off work while minimizing double payments for housing.
I have friends where every time they move they get all their stuff out on their last day into a uhaul, sleep in the truck or motel, and move into their new place the next day so they never have to double up a rent payment. If the unit you're moving to is empty most landlords will let you get your stuff there a few days earlier.
What are you talking about. OP is counting the cost of movers, but he can't get a Uhaul? The point is the numbers to move are complete BS outrage bait. You are taking the bait.
On top of that my friend with a truck I had met 6 months earlier at work, because I was in a brand new city. People have agency to solve their own problems sometimes. Moving is 1000% one of them.
Glad you find it interesting??? Yeah, a mattress and a dresser on a sedan on a highway don't exactly work. So, no in my situation I could not imagine. Hope your interest is again peaked.
Yeah, that sounds productive. I'm sure that will lead to positive change. No sense trying to use the largest governmental system in human history to get through it, just nuke the entire thing, and destroy the entire world.
The economy of every country on the world is closely tied to the American economy, directly or indirectly. A crash would cause a ripple effect that would quickly spread across the world, and bring down many other governments and economies. If America truly falls, there will be a Grand Depression like the modern world has never seen.
That's not "American Exceptionalism," it's just the simple truth. Sorry if you can't handle that.
Oh I understand that, but the continuation of said system is undeniably worse for the rest of the world. If we all had to quit cold turkey, it would be bad, but manageable.
We export LOTS, including the bulk of popular culture around the world. It isn't a tangible good, like a car or a TV, but it's still a product, and it's responsible for trillions in revenue. Until MAGA, our R&D for a lot of industries had been at or near the top. Nations around the world send their best students to American universities for their educations. We may not manufacture much, but the idea that we contribute nothing is flatly stupid.
The American economy is entirely woven into the world economy. If it all collapsed, the world would NOT be fine, for the better part of a century, at least.
And if you stop paying rent they put you on a list so you can;t move in somewhere else and then have to either find a complete dive that probably has black mold in the walls and people selling crack on the sidewalk or buy your own home with that epic savings oif three months rent you dind;t pay before the Sheriff showed up to evict you.
family can suck, and its hard to make friends when you are poor, youre friends are also gonna be poor. Go you, who sounds well off, or at least stable, go make friends with someone on the poverty line. How many friend oppourtunties I lost because I was too broke to go do the stuff they do all the time.
also, putting that on your friends is a shit thing to do. and it feels like shit to be "needy". Most folks will let you crash there couch a few weeks max, which isnt enough time to do anything at all, except find the next spot to crash. this kinda life sucks, and is super demoralizing. Now youre just looking for trees you can hang a rope from.
People like you are fucked in the head. Your advice is literally "just be homeless and pick yourself up by your bootstraps".
If your argument is that people should suffer an undignified and substandard living experience just to afford the basic necessities of survival, then you literally deserve to have everything taken from you and forced into the same position you're advocating for.
I understand what you're saying - I've known people who would say things like "even the cheapest groceries cost me $100, I can't afford them!" when they could instead suffer through a few months of eating nothing but ramen noodles and multivitamins in order to save up some money for cases like these. A terrible few months that they don't deserve, but a worthy sacrifice to allow for a better life in the future. A lot of us have had to do it, and many of us are in a stable financial situation now because of such past sacrifices.
However, I've also known people who were already eating nothing but ramen, and were already living out of their car, and were already sneaking into the gym to shower, and still couldn't save any money, often because it's very difficult to get a job when you're already that far down to rock bottom. You're thinking people can't get that low - that they can always go a bit lower for the sake of saving up enough money to escape that life - but there are enough people so far down that you can't assume any given person has the option to go lower.
How are you this thick that absolutely everyone you interacted with in this thread has said you are out of touch and you just refuse to even entertain the idea. You are the real life "it's the children who are wrong" meme.
Your answer to the problem was to "put it on credit". Tell me, wise one, how they (in that position) would have credit to put it on? What was your solution again?
So, if you're down and out, all you have to do is stop being down and out? It's that easy? Why isn't everybody doing this? Just stop being homeless and poor, it's a simple choice!
I choose to be a billionaire! Now give me all your money, I deserve it more than you!
It is APPALLING that living out of your vehicle has actually become a viable living situation in the 21st century. I am reading about people GRADUATING from college, and planning on living in their car for a few years, to save money, and pay off their student loans.
THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN! Living in your car is being homeless, and planning for that is the sign of a VERY unhealthy society.
How fucking out of touch are you? I'm happy for you that you're well insulated but your comments here are akin to telling someone who's suicidal to try smiling more
It's more like telling someone who's suicidal that "it's your own fault you're unhappy" and then telling them "it wouldn't kill you to smile for once".
my child only cried once he was hungry with no food in the house. Already using food banks, I started stealing food from work. The maitenence department had thier own fridge, and often there would be whole boxes of burritos or all the stuff to make sandwhiches. The guys would bring thier whole weeks of lunch and store it in there.
I started stealing thier food for my one meal a day. I hated myself for it, but I had to feed my kid. The christmas he was 3, We had ramen topped with a can of corn for christmas dinner. His fourth birthday, I had no money for anything. Had $8 to my name, and got him a dominos take out pizza for himself. He didnt have any presents that year. I only comforted myself knowing he wouldnt remember.
I cried myself to sleep a lot in that time. I hated everything about what I was doing to get by. I have a sister who had moved many states away, she told me at one point she was dumpster diving, she luckily had an involved and loving father to her kid, so she just wouldnt see her kid when she couldnt afford to feed him.
Were all doing okay now, but man, it can be rough out there. half my siblings and I, didnt have parents. 3/6 of us became adults from fostercare. That is a setback out of our control. Not a death sentence, but pretty close.
This comment informs me that you have never been close to poor. Poverty is, in fact, very expensive, believe it or not. The entire idea of an emergency fund is something that only the wealthy can afford. I don't intend to be US centric here, but around 43% of Americans cannot afford a $1,000 emergency .
That is a lot of people. Around 150 million in the US alone. I can break that down further by individual nation states if you'd like.
This informs me that you not only lack reading comprehension, but you are also an ill-informed troll. I would say "goodbye", but a "fuck you" is more in order, so I will go with that.
It must be nice to be so financially confident that you can't even imagine that paying bills consists of hard choices for MANY people, especially those renting. If they could save up an emergency fund, they could probably use it as a down payment on a house. Or would that we a waste, too?
It also must be nice to be so Sociopathic that you can just chalk up their lack of emergency fund to spending it on vacation or paying stupid bills like student loans. Dumb Welfare Queens, huh?
"Biff! Stop talking to the poors on Lemmy. We have to get to the club, I have Pickleball at 2."
If they can't afford an additional $300 a month, they don't have an emergency fund, and they probably don't have credit, and if they do, it's probably 20%, which is worse than going without.
And show me a rental that doesn't require a security deposit. Your assumption that anyone who pays a security deposit is a "shit," is one of the most tone deaf things I've ever heard.
You sir, are a vile individual. Please consider yourself encouraged to go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
That's the funniest thing I've read today, a majority of people do not have $300 in savings to their name. A majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck. There is no emergency fund. Something simple like a flat tire is enough to cause significant financial hardship
182 replies
Easy. Just buy a house cash and never pay rent or make mortgage payments. Simple.
Doesn't your family trust employ people that just take care of that for you?
Only until I accidentally give them a sock.
This is legitimately advice my aunt told me. I must have looked at her like she had 3 heads.
It's honestly great advice...if you happen to have ~$500k laying around.
Landlords don't want you to know this one simple trick.
But pay property taxes (and sometimes HOA fees) forever
And be responsible for fixing & replacing appliances, AC, heating, pipes, electrical, etc
Which is factored into the cost of rent, along with repair costs and more.
Eh, I bought a $142K house and my property taxes plus homeowner's insurance come to $4800 a year, which is $400 a month. What's insane is the condominiums in my district -- over $200K for a 2BR 1BA and you pay the larger property taxes and insurance and you pay condo fees of $800 to $900 a month, and cross your fingers that you don't get hit with any special assessments. You're basically paying $1600 a month to rent your own home.
Mind if I crash on your couch for a few decades while I get the cash together?
I did exactly this. I only had to save up for ... 35 years.
Got my own place at 35 as well. My parents bought their first place in central London (although admittedly it was a dump by all accounts) at 19.
Lol I meant 35 years ... starting at age 21.
What about rates and property taxes? Utilities? Internet? Food? They always getcha.
This account is 100% rage bait. Look up the account. It's all posts like this, same formatting, tone, similar themes.
It's all bullshit, he contradicts himself constantly.
There's also a community note that the account is based in Africa.
Edit to address replies:
First of all, first months rent and security deposit shouldn't factor in. You get your security deposit back from your current place if you haven't trashed it, and you're already paying rent, so the new apartments rent isn't an additional cost. In fact, if you're moving somewhere cheaper, you'll save money that first month.
Yes, you might have to pay those way before you move in, and there might be a delay getting the old deposit back, so you need more money up front to cover it. But if you don't have two months' rent in savings, credit, investments, etc? You are absolutely living beyond your means. I know I'll get shit on for this, but that's really not a lot to save.
Application fees include credit checks everywhere I've ever lived. Here they are capped at like $25 I think? It sucks but it's not the end of the world. Never had to pay a deposit on utilities and my credit is shit.
Okay, you're right, but also they aren't wrong (in this case).
Yeah, it's bullshit. A real American would have said "First month's rent. Last month's rent. Security deposit."
Everywhere I've lived, "last months rent" = security deposit. Never heard of anyone paying both.
If that's true, though, it still just means you don't have to save extra for a new lease if the last month at your old place is already paid for.
It doesn't mean that the scenario he described isn't authentic. I've experienced it myself several times in my life.
He may have framed his story as an actual thing that happened to him, but that isn't important. What's important is that he laid out the parameters for a discussion on the problems with switching rental properties, and a substantive discussion followed. The discussion is the point, not how the premise was presented.
There are lots of awful things that happen in America. Bringing them up for discussion is not automatically rage bait just because it makes you angry. Rage Bait is when you give it a misleading, anger-inducing headline, just to get someone to click on it, and then see advertising. That's Rage BAIT. What is this BAITING us into? A discussion about the economics of moving?
Doesn't change the fact that this is how it is.
That monster, we can't just let him post content and get away with it.
I had a neighbor in my old apartment complex who was looking to buy a house the same time I was. I was lucky enough to get approved for a mortgage at a good rate for a good amount, where as he was not approved for a loan which would have cost him $900 a month in loan payments. He didn't have a choice and continued to rent at $1300 a month. Just in case you didn't catch that, he pays $1300 a month in rent, but the bank wouldn't approve him for a loan for $900/month. How is that fair in any way?
Leaving aside the issue of credit rating and focusing just on the cost of home ownership, a house costs a lot more than just the mortgage payment. I bought my house for $142K and it had previously been renting for $1300 a month. My property taxes plus homeowner's insurance alone come to $400 a month, so if I had a $900 per month mortgage I'd be at $1300 a month minimum, before considering the cost of maintenance and repairs and upgrades and whatnot.
That's true. Home ownership has been the biggest money sink I've experienced
I just got a quote to re-point my chimney and replace the cap. Fucking $8K.
So you're saying people in Africa have a better idea of how fucked Americans are, more so than Americans do? I mean, that honestly checks out.
Then there's the Application Fee Scam. They charge you a non-refundable $50 per person, sometimes more, just to apply. In my case, that's $150, which goes to the Property Manager. So the property manager is motivated to take as many applications, and turn them down, as possible. They can easily make far more in application fees than whatever fee they collect from actually renting out the place.
After spending hundreds, only to get turned down within minutes ("Here's $150...oh, it's a No?), I learned to only deal with the person who OWNS the property, no property managers, real estate companies, etc.
Reasons for being turned down? Usually none given. Once it was because of my "criminal record" - a speeding ticket two years before. Goodbye $150.
You might drive the apartment too fast
"Sir, do you have any idea how fast this 1bed/1bath was going? 800 mph. Step out of the apartment for me, sir."
I got 99 problems and this is the worst one
Christ, I remember when they were just happy if you gave them money. Now hearing about the song and dance you have to go to to just be considered...
Then you get approved, to pay 50% of your income to live in a place that wouldn't pass any kind of inspection, so the ceiling leaks and ruins most of your possessions, this happened in 2 different locations.
This is all to real.
It's important to stay on good terms with friends and family so they will help you when shit like this arises. So you can move back in with mom and dad, or couch surf for a while.
Sadly, for too many people, there is no help, and they end up homeless.
nothing against you, but coming from a shit background this read to me as, "pretend to like people you actually dont so you can use them in the future". aye..... yeah, ive been homless :/
So many people are on the edge themselves, and taking on one more mouth to feed, use water and electricity, less privacy, less convenience, etc. might push them over the edge, too.
Times are tough out here.
Moving has always been a huge financial set back for me. It's why some degree of rent control is important as renters are in many ways trapped. It's also super depressing to move to lower rent housing. As you age there's a societal and self imposed expectation of financial progress, paying a bunch to move to lower rent housing is a double tap.
That lower rent housing could still feel like financial progress. If it meets your needs still, you now have more money to spend on things that aren't housing. I've seen some older couples sell their larger homes and move into small apartments or houses. It cuts back on their costs, maintainance demands, and frees up money for other things like better wine, gifts for the kids, or vacations.
I think they meant they are spending the same rent but getting a lower quality place, in multiple ways. So there isn't more money, just a distinct lower quality of life at the same money.
"Paying a bunch to move to lower rent housing" implies the rent is lower, if its about quality they would have specified paying the same rent to get a worse place.
If they are moving because their current rent went up, and they are moving into a place with the same as their old rent, then they are still moving into a lower rent place.
https://xcancel.com/jeremyct
https://x.com/jeremyct
It's a blue checkmark bot.
EDIT (because I couldn't help myself):
I’m so tired boss. I hate how fake and artificial the world has become…
Then perhaps we should, you know, consider sources?
I'm sorry, this is not personal, but Lemmy/Piefed complains about slop constantly. It's why we're here!
Yet they proceed to upvote it onto the front page, every day. Nothing happens when I point it out. Mods don't do anything, the same posters and communities just keep doing it.
Its frustrating because I love the idea of Lemmy/Piefed, but this is poison for the same reason its poison on Twitter.
I believe this is an internet in general problem. It’s being filled up with too much shit.
Also double-dipping on my comment but that's why I make a blocklist of all the politics and doomer sublemmys (or whatever they're called). But there's always new ones popping up it's not a sustainable solution.
Btw, I don't have a problem with politics but it is impossible to have a nuanced discussion on politics on social media so no point reading the 24/7 doomer headlines and then scrolling through partisan idiots bickering in the comments.
I don't think we can do anything about it until we solve human verification. Not only is human verification a really hard problem to solve (and also while respecting user privacy), there is a for-profit motive to fill the internet with crap (advertisement industry & state propaganda)
I just don’t see how user verification can be done without it being straight up spyware
Because the message isn't offensive, and people (probably) didn't know it was bot content because they aren't in the habit of checking the background of posts.
Rhetorical questions only really work when, in reconsidering the question, the absurdity or indefensibility of the situation being questioned comes to light.
Just because it's a bot doesn't make the validity of the message any less. It just means OP should clip out the account's name.
But it's fake.
It's a story, fabricated soley to farm retweets. It is fiction.
If you label it as "made up story?" Sure. That's fine. It's the truth. But then its not getting to the front page because it doesn't have the appearance of authenticity.
A parable is fake too. The point here isn't commiserating with a real person's real financial problem. It resonates with the truth of financial strain people feel in their own lives.
Do you think there isn't a person alive somewhere in the US that has been priced out of their apartment? Do you think the fees (not the amount it costs) tacked on to applying for a new rental apartment are fake?
As someone who was priced out of regular rentals: I can assure you, they are not.
Edit: and I'm not claiming we should all just repost bot farm content. I'm saying it's not surprising a populist message echoing people's struggles is being upvoted. And acting incredulous about that fact doesn't change anything.
You're dodging the issue I have. I'm not arguing with the "resonation of truth." No one here is arguing with the message.
It's presented as real.
That's the problem. This is upvoted for its apparent authenticity, and it. Is. Not. Real. It's a story.
...Look, tell me this. Lets say you're OP. You found this post yourself, you posted it, but later you found out it's a content farm account. Which would you do:
A: Edit it. Label it as such in the title.
B: Keep it as is.
C: Something else. Delete it?
And yes, you could post a comment, but the vast majority of viewers wouldn't see that. You could crop out the poster, but that's giving no indication the post isn't authentic.
I'm not dodging the issue. You even copied a quote of me facing the "issue."
It's presented as a tweet. Whether or not you trust any tweet is a personal decision. You yourself, unless you have a habit of checking the background of every tweet picture posted, decided not to trust this one.
You keep saying it's upvoted for its authenticity and I keep saying that's not the case. If this was framed as a hypothetical, it would get much the same reception because they aren't saying "wow, it's sad this destitute man is having trouble renting a new home. We should make things better for real people like Jeremy. "
They're probably thinking, "fuck yeah, I feel that. Shit's expensive out here for everybody."
I dispute this.
Post a similar Tweet, like this, but label it as "hypothetical" right in the title. Not as a comment or mention, but smack where people see it before they read the Tweet.
It might get some upvotes, but I'm positive it wouldn't make it to #1 on the front page.
I think this is disingenuous too.
...Do you really think, when most people are reading this post, their initial thought is. "Huh, a tweet. I dunno if this Jeremy guy is real, let me consider that... Eh, I like the sentiment anyway. Upvote."
That's nonsense.
No one even checked and posted about it until now, apparently.
It's not a choice. Most never knew to choose! The Tweet is worded as if a real person describing their situation, so that's what the initial assumption will be.
And this does nothing.
It removes attribution. But it does nothing to suggest the Tweet isn't authentic.
...And you didn't answer my question, I don't think.
To be clear, if you were OP of this post, what would you do now? Just remove the author, that's it?
I didn't even read the account's name until your comment (I also didn't upvote because I don't upvote a post unless it's small and/or I really like it).
I try to not extend my experience as "normative" to other people but I don't believe people are giving names much credence unless they're famous.
Idk if you can hotswap the content of a post. If I learned after posting, I'd probably just delete the post because I don't feel strongly enough to put the work into editing and reposting. I wouldn't have even posted this in the first place because I don't think this is novel enough to be posting. That's almost besides the pount but you asked for personal opinions.
If I knew beforehand (and was possessed of a desire to share this), yeah, I'd just cut out the account name.
I agree the tweet form factor drives engagement for some reason, but if the username were "fake-anti-capitalist-tweets" with a blue thumbs up icon, I'm certain it would have moved in much the same ways.
You won't believe this but literally every parable and nearly every single thing written in history is made up. There was no Sodom and Gomorrah, there was no Ark, there was no giant horse to invade Troy, Cleopatra wasn't hot, Alexander wasn't that Great, Paul probably didn't exist, etc.
But the reason humans tell stories is to illustrate something. This may have been a bot just reposting sentiment, but it still got that sentiment from somewhere. In fact this "story" as you call it has been going around the internet longer than you've been alive based on your comments in this thread. It's a common problem. And one ignored by pretty much everyone in power and their fans.
That's the most defeatist argument I've heard. "The stories of history are fake, most of the internet is fake, so we're justified in presenting a made-up story as real, like we've been doing all along."
I'm sorry. I'm not supporting an obvious engagement farm just because it "illustrates something" worthwhile. That's the fundamental reason why the internet is in such a horrendous state right.
To be clear, I have no problem with stories, or even "embellished history," if they're labeled as such. I mean, I know history is a interpreted construct with embellishment, that was middle school history class.
But this is presented as an example of a real human being's experience. It's why people are upvoting it.
And that's a straight-up lie.
No, people are upvoting it because they can relate with it, and it is factual, regardless of it if happened to a real human.
There's a word for made up stories misleadingly presented as an authentic human account, and its not "factual."
I'm not saying it hasn't happened to a real human either. I agree with the seniment of the story.
The 'sentiment,' aka the circumstances being lamented, are 100% factual.
The story might not be.
If I write about how I tried and failed to move faster than the speed of light by lighting my farts on fire, the story is fake, but it's factual. I would not ever be able to move faster than the speed of light by lighting my farts on fire. Everyone can understand that, as long as they have a reference of the amount of energy generated by flaming farts and a reference for what the speed of light is and the amount of energy that it requires to get there.
Renting in the united states requires at minimum 3x the monthly rent to be paid upfront, usually 4x the monthly rent, along with a non-refundable application fee which often is just lost and denied. If I write a story about how a anthropomorphic bunny is having a hard time renting due to not being able to raise enough money on only fans to handle these ridiculous requirements, the story is still factual and makes a point about the real circumstances in this world regardless of the fact anthropomorphic bunnies have not been proven to exist yet.
So yes, it would get upvoted despite taking liberties with the exact details and thus being a fictionalized version of reality that uses facts from reality to make a point.
I suppose the real problem I have with your critique is that it's pointless to attack an AI version of a meme because of the content of the meme which has been reposted in a million ways by humans before you found your way onto the internet, instead of attacking the fact it's just an AI powered repost of a true meme.
Does the source impact the message? This is the reality of a large part of the working class, so regardless where it comes from the truth is still the same
Then label it so. Indicate its a made-up source, as a tag in the title.
I have no problem with a message. But do you really think people would upvote this if they knew it was a "message" from ChatGPT or something, just to make this account a buck? Isn't that a bit ironic, in this community?
You think screen shots make money?
Of course not. The Tweeter has already made their cash, and you’re dodging the point.
Its too late now (as the post has already made its rounds), but its about exposing Lemmy to a fake post.
It was a pretty simple choice. Do you value information hygiene and truthful presentation, or the message itself, more? Does the veracity of the source it comes from matter? Would you mislead Lemmy viewers if it’s for the right message?
And it seems you answered that with your choice.
You are presenting a genetic fallacy
Poverty is a resource access problem.
For many people, $5000 would permanently change their lives for the better.
Yeah, and it's not the excuse that landlords need to keep up with costs, either, since most landlords are huge corporations, and costs don't increase that fast. Land values plateaued years ago, so taxes aren't ballooning or anything like that anymore. I was lucky enough to have help with a down payment, so I now own, but that's rare, especially in my city where house/land costs are way higher than their value due to the limited supply, which is mostly due to all the properties that are forever unoccupied as investment property or are mostly unlivable, and building material costs have made it too expensive to repair.
In Spain you get a paid vacation day for moving. You just show your lease contract and you get the first day of the lease off.
But you usually have to pay first month up front and put in a security deposit. It used to also be that you had to pay a fee to the agency. The law now says that the landlord pays that fee but sometimes they will still say it o you. You can either pay or keep looking.
So worst case you need 3x the rent to move. Best case you just put in the security deposit which you get back at the end of the contract.
You just need residency. Which basically means you just need a job. But keep in mind that the right is on the rise here, like everywhere else, so most likely in a couple of years a lot of progress made here will also be rolled back. I think EU is still great place to be long term, just don't focus on current situation too much when choosing where to go. Things will change.
Great news for 0.6% of the world's population!
Sidebar, I'm a big fan of a minimal life aka having as little stuff as possible. My truck can hold all my stuff for a one trip move. If I didn't have that then there's the $20 daily van rentals which are honestly going to be like $60 all said and done. If I couldn't afford a deposit and first months rent on an apartment then I could rent a room. I've also been tempted to get a cheap trailer for an RV park. Finally there's the option of taking on a roommate. In college we had two people to each room and a guy with a makeshift wall renting the living room. Is it glamorous? Hell no. Could things be better? Hell yeah. Is it better than living out of my truck or on the street? Most definitely.
Same, until I buy a house there's no reason to litter my life with bullshit that just needs to get moved between apartment to apartment. And yea, I've been considering the van life / RV life too. Depending on where you're at financially, the cost of van loan may be far less than what you were ever paying in rent. Of course: I am incredibly blessed and privileged enough to have a completely remote job.
Good news, you're legally allowed to keep all the copper in the walls as a leaving present.
Don't forget the AC unit has a lot of copper in it too.
This has an AI-like pattern that says:
"You aren't a virgin, you are just sex-proof"
The paradox of plenty
Add "can't afford to move? Pay more rent"
I paid over 4,000 on my last move. It was brutal.
AI slop post
I've never heard of "utility deposits" in my life...
They're real.
Paid to the utility company itself to get services turned on for the first time in your name (and typically not paid again when you move, as long as you transfer your service to the new address), its usually returned to you via a credit to your bill after 3-12 months of service depending on the utility company.
Wow, well, I can tell you I've never heard of this as a US native who has lived across multiple states, at least. I thought it should say "security deposit."
Wanna give that post a second go so we can figure out what you're on about.
Security and Utility deposits are both a thing in America.
Yeah, I missed sec. dep. the first time. I still have never heard of utility deposits, though it also seems according to someone else here that they're only for people with bad credit, so I guess that's why.
Not always. Some just due it as a matter of course on the opening of a fresh new account.
If your credit score is dogshit sometimes you get stuck with them.
For good reason.
Whoa, did you have an Internet connectivity issue and try to resubmit 4x? They all went through...
For good reason.
For good reason.
For good reason.
For good reason.
Some utilities charge a deposit, I've only ever had it once myself, and it was a city owned utility that eventually sold out to the corpo scum
Yup. It's funny how they all seem to converge on the mannerisms of LinkedIn garbage.
and that key?
That key is money. So most people will never have the key to escape, but they'll never stop getting charged to look for it.
AI
I used to suggest committing a crime and getting to jail (if government cannot manage the country economy, at least they could support you with food and shelter).
Then someone told me there is a waiting list for prisons in USA...
Also doesn't work if have a family.
But yeah it sucks so much here
Americans can afford to start a family?
This post heavily inflates the numbers to maximize the drama.
First month's rent: That's not an added moving expense. You pay rent every month regardless of where you live.
Moving truck: If money is tight, you rent a cheap van and move yourself with friends like everyone else.
Yes, having the cash upfront for a new deposit while waiting for the old one to return is a real liquidity trap. But framing $4,000 as the absolute baseline to escape a rent increase is pure ragebait. It makes the poster sound like someone who has never actually had to do a budget, DIY move.
Well first month's fee and security deposit are annoying but they're one of payments to get away from a increased recurring payment, so yeah it's a pain but it's still worth doing it.
I've never been understood who people who get moving trucks, you can rent a truck for less than the cost of a moving company.
Are you young and healthy? Plenty of people can't physically move their belongings and need someone else to do it for them.
Pizza and beer for your friends does the job, but yeah it definitely sucks if you don’t have friends like that.
My friends are all around the same age as me and developing their own health issues. Things were different when we were in our 20s.
For sure, was thinking about including younger cousins etc
Friends and family are a blessing
I rented a Uhaul (The van, it was raining) to clean out an apartment recently this year. $200. We had it for 24 hours.
The post says, "Moving Truck", not movers also.
For the first and last, some folks.. dont just have that on them. So even if it's "worth doing" youre pulling blood from a stone there bud
Moving to a cheaper place across town only takes a day if you box everything up ahead of time; no need to request time off. The truck rental is going to be under $100 after milage and any other fee. If you're moving from one rental to another you should be getting back a security deposit which, after a short delay, pays for the new security deposit. The same goes for any utility deposits. The application fee is the credit check fee.
$4000 is the cost to move cross-country.
Completely missing the point. They want to move because they can't afford another $300 per month, but you think they have the cash for a security deposit, AND first/last month's rent, AND that their security deposit, which is only a month's rent, and which they won't see for over a month, if ever, will somehow cover it?
And we won't even get into the Application Scam, which I wrote about in another post.
You have no idea how most people live in this country.
Whoa dude, calm your ass down. I've moved plenty and I fully understand the poverty trap the post was attempting to highlight.
What I was saying was $4000 is a ridiculous number not based on reality. Most of those deposits also pay for themselves anyway.
You want them to calm down, when you first came in, intentionally or not, like the most arrogant prick.
If you dont understand poverty, dont talk about it
$4K is based in my reality. Ive been there. To start, my truck rental has been $200 bucks each time with gas and other fees, so youre numbers are not in reality. Hows that?
This guy gets it. I once had to move 6 years in a row, all completely out of my hands (landlord sold the property, wanted it for their newly married daughter, wanted to turn it into an Air B&B, etc.). It was a serious financial hit every time, killing whatever savings I had for the year.
I still always keep the latest calculations in my head for what it would take to move, compared to my savings, just in case I get a call from my landlord that he's not renewing the lease because he's selling the property, and the new owners want to turn it into a law office or something (happened to me).
I used to have panic attacks, like one time my car battery died, and I couldnt immediately afford to fix it, Id spiral out, "imma be homeless" because if I cant get to work, Im gonna get fired, then I cant pay my bills, and Im end up on the street again. Full blown panic attacks because of a $200 surprise car fee.
poverty fucks your brain
"Just dip into your emergency fund, you loser." - The Let Them Eat Cake Crowd
WTF? I'm plenty calm, you just don't have a clue what you are talking about.
It depends on where you live, but $4000 is unrealistic nearly everywhere. The last time I moved in NYC, it was over $7000, and that was 8 years ago. I am also very familiar with rents in Orlando. A modest $1800 a month rent would cost $1800x3(security deposit/ first/ last), and then pet deposits, application fees, moving expenses, etc., so at least $5400+, and probably another $1000 -1500 on top of that. If your credit isn't great, you may even have to pay a double security deposit (a common scam), so add on another $1800. Those numbers are common in large metropolitan areas, where MOST people live.
All of those extra fees are not only plausible, but likely. You ain't getting away with having a cat without an extra $500 non-refundable fee, per cat. Last time, we paid for two cats, even though we had five. We knew they'd all hide under the bed when the landlord visited, and he'd never figure out how many we really had. And again, find my post on the Application Fee Scam. I lost hundreds of dollars to that before I stopped working with Property Managers, and only dealt directly with landlords.
At $4000, the place would have to be less than $1000 per month. That might only get you a spare room in someone's house, in most places. No more than a studio anywhere else, and probably not a good one.
You are again calculating a deposit as a non-refundable fee rather than... a deposit. Your numbers are off by a few thousand because of this.
Okay, so, New York City. Let's look up the price of renting a 15' Uhaul in Manhattan. Should be expensive, right? Hmm, it's only $30 + $2.50 a mile if you rented one today. I mean, you could spring for a 16' Penske truck for $50, but they won't let me link to the quote.
So I don't know what kind of premium moving service you used or what kind of damage you did to your previous rentals that made you keep losing deposits, but typically you get those back. You're counting the first month's rent as a huge fee when in reality you are saving $300 by switching to that as opposed to continuing to pay where you're at.
Rents go up when leases renew so this isn't some unforseen natural disaster. You aren't paying for two rentals at the same time either because you're switching when your lease is up.
Typically same-city moves don't have different utility servicers so any deposits you have with them are either transferable or comparable. The whole move washes out nearly even, aside from literally moving your shit and the fee on a background check for the new place.
Dude, you are acting like the moving truck is the primary expense. It's not. I rent trucks OFTEN in my job (multiple times a month), I know exactly what the expenses are. It would cost me at least $200, and that's with a commercial account that is $40 a day, plus insurance ($30), and .17 a mile, plus gas ($75). And don't go through any tolls, that's a $16 service charge, before the toll. Not the biggest expense, but $200 is real money to many.
You are also assuming that you will get your security deposit back. No landlord wants to return the security deposit, and most of the time I've had to fight for it, and even then I usually get less than the total. A couple of times I got nothing, and the state allowed it. I did no damage at all (we treat every rental like it's ours, we aren't pigs), and yet somehow I get charged for all the normal maintenance like painting, carpets, HVAC, etc.
And even if you do get it back, it's well over a month later, longer, if you dispute it, or have to chase it. That money is not available when you are negotiating for your new apartment, and no landlord wants to hear that you'll give it to him when you get it. He knows your last landlord is going to try to stiff you, because he's going to do the same thing when you move out. The best I was ever able to negotiate was to break up the security deposit into thirds, and pay a third on top of my new rent for the next three months. So now my rent is 33% higher for a while.
And many areas have multiple utility companies. Depending on where I'd move in my town, it is very possible that I'd have to get a new electric company, and almost certainly a new water company (very localized, mostly just the county). I'm lucky that I've never had to pay deposits for utilities, despite their occasional threats.
Not everybody has access to easy credit, so if they don't have the cash in hand, they don't have the money, period.
Your flippant attitude is enormously offensive. You have no idea how many people are on the edge of homelessness every day, for YEARS. You can't seem to understand that things like moving costs are onerous to many people, and it doesn't just "wash out nearly even," for them. Even a $100 moving expense can require enormous sacrifice to cover.
You could use some Critical Thinking Skills, and Empathy. You're are seriously short on both.
You just can't help a good appeal to authority, can you? I could just as easily claim to be the owner of a moving company with 40 years of industry experience. That I know all the costs of moving down to the price of wiper blades on a moving van. You see how that means nothing?
I will concede that there may be road tolls or other hyper-specific circumstances for certain localities. Though, like your personal anecdotes, they aren't representative of the norm. NYC is one of the most unique places on Earth and is a poor representation of what "most people" go through other than trying to make the argument that a lot of people live there.
I don't know what else to say other than if you paid $7000 to move in NYC you were bamboozled. That's more than what it costs to move shipping container all the way from the west coast to NYC.
I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of it because what I said previously still stands. A crooked landlord trying to steal a deposit is a whole other circumstantial argument.
Yeah, when someone doesn't agree, and offers credentials as proof of knowledge, just blow it off as a hoax, like MAGA. Or worse, mock my perfectly reasonable, and accurate numbers, based on actual real world experience, just because they don't agree with speculative numbers you pulled out of your dumb ass, you dumbass.
My apartment in NYC was $2000 per month when I moved in. Security Deposit/First/Last is $6000 right away. Is it so hard to believe that there would be another $1000 in moving expenses? Especially when you add in $150 application fee, $200 pet fee, etc.
And on top of all that, something I forgot about in my first post - until last year, you could also expect to pay a Broker Fee, which was one month's rent, to the agent who found the apartment for you. That made it $8000 just to start, before moving expenses. I tried doing it without a Broker Fee, but you only see the shittiest apartments that way. Luckily, my landlord allowed me to break up my security deposit over a few months.
Today, that apartment is $2500, so Security/First/Last is $7500 - to start. $10,000, with a broker fee.
And NYC is NOT unique. I have a home in Orlando, too, and that same apartment would be at least $1800 there, so we're still well over $5000 just to start talking. They don't have Broker Fees here, so they abuse the application fee egregiously. You can expect to get turned down several times before you get approved, just because they'd rather collect application fees. There absolutely no laws restricting it.
Your understanding of rental expenses seems so naive that I have to wonder if you have you ever actually rented an apartment before?
My last move about 7 miles away cost me about $3000 after everything was paid. Luckily I can afford it, but I know many people that cant
have you ever met a landlord?
Tenant rights in some states allow you to get double or triple your deposit back if your landlord tries to fuck you out of it. If your payments are undocumented then you have bigger problems than retrieving your deposit.
Counting first month rent as a "moving cost" is disingenuous IMO. That money isnt for moving but for paying for the place for a month. Now needing the captial to provide first and last, thats defintely a factor.
I think that's the point they're making here.
I've moved a dozen times because of rent increases and all these cost are BS. Maybe a $60 application fee and $150 to rent a Uhaul for the day. Before I had Uhaul money, I moved an entire apartment twice in a friends pickup truck (multiple trips). Security deposits suck, but I have always gotten 100% of my security deposit back by cleaning better than I found it, and having move-in and move-out pictures. I mean sometimes you do have to work to save money, but it is not a lost cause.
When i moved from my apartment to my house, i lined up the closing date to only have 2 weeks of overlap with my rent rather than a full month. I was able to use my work van to do multiple trips over the evenings to move my stuff and prep the house. This let me not take any time off work while minimizing double payments for housing.
I have friends where every time they move they get all their stuff out on their last day into a uhaul, sleep in the truck or motel, and move into their new place the next day so they never have to double up a rent payment. If the unit you're moving to is empty most landlords will let you get your stuff there a few days earlier.
imagine you didnt have friends with a truck, or uhaul money.
What are you talking about. OP is counting the cost of movers, but he can't get a Uhaul? The point is the numbers to move are complete BS outrage bait. You are taking the bait.
On top of that my friend with a truck I had met 6 months earlier at work, because I was in a brand new city. People have agency to solve their own problems sometimes. Moving is 1000% one of them.
idk, Ive moved without a friend with a truck or uhaul money. I find it interesting you cant even imagine this scenrio.
Glad you find it interesting??? Yeah, a mattress and a dresser on a sedan on a highway don't exactly work. So, no in my situation I could not imagine. Hope your interest is again peaked.
Lmao, and you're not rioting in the streets while the pedophile billionaires loot the treasury.
Fucking pathetic.
Username doesn't check out.
Or maybe it does, since I don't see you out there rioting, either!
I don't live in your shit hole country, despite you continuing to destroy our world.
Hey I recycle
You say somethin?
So brave, you should tell us where you are from then
You should stay on topic.
but I wanna nit pick your country too..
I know, lol. Maybe later.
Yeah, that sounds productive. I'm sure that will lead to positive change. No sense trying to use the largest governmental system in human history to get through it, just nuke the entire thing, and destroy the entire world.
Y'know, it might just work!
(No it won't)
Empires collapse. Hopefully yours will before you kill the rest of the people and animals on the planet.
If America collapses, so does the rest of the world.
LOL.
American exceptionalism is alive and well.
If America doesn't collapse, the ecocide and climate change continue accelerating and we all die.
The economy of every country on the world is closely tied to the American economy, directly or indirectly. A crash would cause a ripple effect that would quickly spread across the world, and bring down many other governments and economies. If America truly falls, there will be a Grand Depression like the modern world has never seen.
That's not "American Exceptionalism," it's just the simple truth. Sorry if you can't handle that.
This is decreasingly true as economies decouple from the dollar. The world does not depend on Statesian exports either.
Oh I understand that, but the continuation of said system is undeniably worse for the rest of the world. If we all had to quit cold turkey, it would be bad, but manageable.
Y'all don't export shit. The world would be fine.
We export LOTS, including the bulk of popular culture around the world. It isn't a tangible good, like a car or a TV, but it's still a product, and it's responsible for trillions in revenue. Until MAGA, our R&D for a lot of industries had been at or near the top. Nations around the world send their best students to American universities for their educations. We may not manufacture much, but the idea that we contribute nothing is flatly stupid.
The American economy is entirely woven into the world economy. If it all collapsed, the world would NOT be fine, for the better part of a century, at least.
The opposite, actually, the advance of the world depends on the death of the US Empire.
There’s lower levels of poor that don’t include emergency funds and/or credit unfortunately.
This is an impressively out of touch comment that makes it clear you've never experienced being poor yourself
And if you stop paying rent they put you on a list so you can;t move in somewhere else and then have to either find a complete dive that probably has black mold in the walls and people selling crack on the sidewalk or buy your own home with that epic savings oif three months rent you dind;t pay before the Sheriff showed up to evict you.
So homeless and jail. Nice solution, removed.
youre solution is to have family or friends.
family can suck, and its hard to make friends when you are poor, youre friends are also gonna be poor. Go you, who sounds well off, or at least stable, go make friends with someone on the poverty line. How many friend oppourtunties I lost because I was too broke to go do the stuff they do all the time.
also, putting that on your friends is a shit thing to do. and it feels like shit to be "needy". Most folks will let you crash there couch a few weeks max, which isnt enough time to do anything at all, except find the next spot to crash. this kinda life sucks, and is super demoralizing. Now youre just looking for trees you can hang a rope from.
Most of the truly poor also have bad credit or no credit due to, well being poor!
And bad backs.
People like you are fucked in the head. Your advice is literally "just be homeless and pick yourself up by your bootstraps".
If your argument is that people should suffer an undignified and substandard living experience just to afford the basic necessities of survival, then you literally deserve to have everything taken from you and forced into the same position you're advocating for.
Do us all a favor and go bite a curb.
I understand what you're saying - I've known people who would say things like "even the cheapest groceries cost me $100, I can't afford them!" when they could instead suffer through a few months of eating nothing but ramen noodles and multivitamins in order to save up some money for cases like these. A terrible few months that they don't deserve, but a worthy sacrifice to allow for a better life in the future. A lot of us have had to do it, and many of us are in a stable financial situation now because of such past sacrifices.
However, I've also known people who were already eating nothing but ramen, and were already living out of their car, and were already sneaking into the gym to shower, and still couldn't save any money, often because it's very difficult to get a job when you're already that far down to rock bottom. You're thinking people can't get that low - that they can always go a bit lower for the sake of saving up enough money to escape that life - but there are enough people so far down that you can't assume any given person has the option to go lower.
How are you this thick that absolutely everyone you interacted with in this thread has said you are out of touch and you just refuse to even entertain the idea. You are the real life "it's the children who are wrong" meme.
Your answer to the problem was to "put it on credit". Tell me, wise one, how they (in that position) would have credit to put it on? What was your solution again?
go work, or volunteer at a homeless shelter for one month. I fucking dare yo bro. I double dog dare you.
wouldnt last a day
So, if you're down and out, all you have to do is stop being down and out? It's that easy? Why isn't everybody doing this? Just stop being homeless and poor, it's a simple choice!
I choose to be a billionaire! Now give me all your money, I deserve it more than you!
Oh, I'm going to be good at this.
You're really stupid
Don't breed
It is APPALLING that living out of your vehicle has actually become a viable living situation in the 21st century. I am reading about people GRADUATING from college, and planning on living in their car for a few years, to save money, and pay off their student loans.
THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN! Living in your car is being homeless, and planning for that is the sign of a VERY unhealthy society.
arrogance can make you ignorant.
My emergency fund has been eaten by eating over the past few years.
Now it's getting down to "Eat, or pay rent?" as a choice.
It’s such a tough spot, I’m sorry you’re experiencing it right now. I hope your luck turns around soon.
How fucking out of touch are you? I'm happy for you that you're well insulated but your comments here are akin to telling someone who's suicidal to try smiling more
It's more like telling someone who's suicidal that "it's your own fault you're unhappy" and then telling them "it wouldn't kill you to smile for once".
Sacrifice your child?
my child only cried once he was hungry with no food in the house. Already using food banks, I started stealing food from work. The maitenence department had thier own fridge, and often there would be whole boxes of burritos or all the stuff to make sandwhiches. The guys would bring thier whole weeks of lunch and store it in there.
I started stealing thier food for my one meal a day. I hated myself for it, but I had to feed my kid. The christmas he was 3, We had ramen topped with a can of corn for christmas dinner. His fourth birthday, I had no money for anything. Had $8 to my name, and got him a dominos take out pizza for himself. He didnt have any presents that year. I only comforted myself knowing he wouldnt remember.
I cried myself to sleep a lot in that time. I hated everything about what I was doing to get by. I have a sister who had moved many states away, she told me at one point she was dumpster diving, she luckily had an involved and loving father to her kid, so she just wouldnt see her kid when she couldnt afford to feed him.
Were all doing okay now, but man, it can be rough out there. half my siblings and I, didnt have parents. 3/6 of us became adults from fostercare. That is a setback out of our control. Not a death sentence, but pretty close.
This comment informs me that you have never been close to poor. Poverty is, in fact, very expensive, believe it or not. The entire idea of an emergency fund is something that only the wealthy can afford. I don't intend to be US centric here, but around 43% of Americans cannot afford a $1,000 emergency .
That is a lot of people. Around 150 million in the US alone. I can break that down further by individual nation states if you'd like.
This informs me that you not only lack reading comprehension, but you are also an ill-informed troll. I would say "goodbye", but a "fuck you" is more in order, so I will go with that.
It must be nice to be so financially confident that you can't even imagine that paying bills consists of hard choices for MANY people, especially those renting. If they could save up an emergency fund, they could probably use it as a down payment on a house. Or would that we a waste, too?
It also must be nice to be so Sociopathic that you can just chalk up their lack of emergency fund to spending it on vacation or paying stupid bills like student loans. Dumb Welfare Queens, huh?
"Biff! Stop talking to the poors on Lemmy. We have to get to the club, I have Pickleball at 2."
"Coming Muffy!"
Most people do not have the opportunity to 'put away' the emergency fund you are accusing them of wasting. Are you new to the Earth? Or just a troll?
If they can't afford an additional $300 a month, they don't have an emergency fund, and they probably don't have credit, and if they do, it's probably 20%, which is worse than going without.
And show me a rental that doesn't require a security deposit. Your assumption that anyone who pays a security deposit is a "shit," is one of the most tone deaf things I've ever heard.
You sir, are a vile individual. Please consider yourself encouraged to go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
That's the funniest thing I've read today, a majority of people do not have $300 in savings to their name. A majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck. There is no emergency fund. Something simple like a flat tire is enough to cause significant financial hardship