Carney says the war against Iran was ‘worth it.’ He’s wrong
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/carney-says-the-war-against-iran-was-worth-it-hes-wrongOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca143
Comments58https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/carney-says-the-war-against-iran-was-worth-it-hes-wrongOpen linkView original on lemmy.ca
Spin city, baby. Let's see how far we can stretch the truth.
The 'Canadian Dimension' is a propaganda outlet frequently conveying pro-China and anti-Western - including anti-Canada - narratives.
I don't support the war in Iran, but this is an unreliable, pro-authoritarian propaganda organization with a strong selection bias in both topics and narratives.
It's 100% worth it for Trump.
It worked as a distraction from the charges of child rape and trafficking against him.
He lost nothing. Only all of us lost. We don't matter to him.
Meanwhile, every grocery corporation across Canada, that already had a huge windfall from the COVID pandemic by artificially growing prices, are doing it again thanks to this war and the energy crisis it created, as if we weren't being gouged enough already. But Mr. World Banker over here thinks it's fucking worth it?
Fuck him and the horse he fucking rode in on. Fucking rich elite ass hole.
I'm ready to try NDP at the federal level.
We need proportional representation for this to work. The Conservatives are so ghoulish that people vote Liberal as a safety. If the left splits the vote, the Conservatives get a majority government with only 40% of the vote.
The moment people have a viable alternatives to liberals they will flock to them. The libs have been a neoliberal fascist enabling party for a long time.
Now that Starmer is done Carney is gunning for most disappointing head of state.
Lots of people are still glazing him for that one speech where he suggested Canada should be more like the USA.
Neither Starmer nor Carney are heads of state. Look to King Charles if you can't stomach the details of how things work.
Must intelligent people really play this game of Make Believe with y'all? I mean honestly? Who's buying it?
Lol, okay. Sure buddy.
Though if you want to talk about that sausage fingered pedophile go right ahead.
Diplomacy is the art of saying “nice doggy” until you can find a rock — Will Rogers
Except he doesn't seem to really want to commit to that. He is still making massive deals with US corporations and sharing massive data with the US, not to mention pushing through massive surveillance bills that only will benefit them.
"Nice doggy — go ahead and tear apart that stranger, it's totally worth it. Would you like to buy some rocks?"
When Trump first attacked Iran Carney practically ran to the nearest microphone to tell us all how he thought it was just dandy. The guy has repeatedly expressed support for the war because that's how he feels.
He's been consistent about not talking about the world how people want it to be, but how it actually is.
Iran has a nuclear program. If Iran builds a nuke it would be very bad. They also support a lot of terrorism. Terrorism is bad.
If you strip away all of the ideological bullshit, the vibes about who's a good guy and who's a bad guy, all of the rationalizations about who's historically justified in attacking who, what you're left with is Iran being weakened means less terrorism, less terrorism means less war. It's imperative that they are prevented from building nuclear weapons since that represents the potential for millions of people getting killed.
Iran does not want nuclear weapons. If they do end up with a nuke it is entirely due to the threat it faces from Israel.
Wow. What a great metaphor.
Would be nice if it was true.
He's wrong. Period.
This was the single biggest US foreign policy blunder I've ever witnessed. The fact Trumps own country isn't tearing him apart right now is a testament to his cult like grip on the GOP.
Can people stop excusing Carney's noted imperialism and internal oppression and hostility to first nations and environmentalists as "5-d chess" its rather disgusting that's what this thread is.
Obama's Stuxnet cyberattack destroyed 1000 uranium enrichment centrifuges in Iran at a cost of $1-2 billion (exact cost still classified).
Trump's military action destroyed about 20x that number, but at 150x to 300x the cost. Such beautiful deals. Unbelievable deals. But Stuxnet didn't have the added benefit of distracting the public from the Epstein files, so there's that.
Choice 1: PM flatters trump at zero cost to anyone anywhere.
Choice 2: PM picks a fight with trump with zero gain to anyone anywhere.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Decisions decisions decisions.
Choice 3: Carney shuts the fuck up and doesn't look like a stupid asshole. That would have been a good one. The guy absolutely didn't have to fall over himself to support this dumbass war, multiple times.
That is an option, but we are still in the midst of a trade war with the US, who remains out largest trading partner.
If Carney can offer platitudes that cost nothing to get some goodwill with the US that might actually help Canadians, then why the fuck not?
Ultimately, Trump (and maybe some armchair policy experts) is the only person dumb enough to not see through this ploy. It's not going to affect his position in any negative way, and has a small chance to affect it positively.
I disagree with Carney on almost all of his real policy decisions, but the man knows how to play politics, and I'd much rather he be in office than PP.
Does this cost us nothing? I thought we were trying to pivot away from the US. How does it make us look to the rest of the world when our leadership practically sprints to support the US in violating international law?
Yes.
This is a welcome change, but it's a slow process. I don't see why we need to suffer unnecessarily when all you need to do to keep things stable during a massive shift like this is some disingenuous compliments.
It makes us look like we are trying to calm down the crackhead with a knife by calmly agreeing with them.
They do NOT cost us nothing. Here's a few ways it costs Canada:
And I'm not even getting into the ways it costs us because it's a disgusting and just plain fucking wrong to applaud this completely pointless war that rained down death and suffering to countless innocents, both directly and indirectly.
And all that for what? For sucking Trump's dick which he's already forgotten anyway? Give me a break.
I wish I could upvote you twice.
Well put, full agree.
Still think Carney is going an overall decent job, and he's 1,000,000,000,000x better than the conservatives getting in..... but this is a big miss.
Right... I can see the scene now "Well, I wasn't sure about going to war but then I remembered the disastrous Iran war and how Canada's Prime Minister said nice things about it so away we go!"
What a silly thing to say. Of course the Canadian prime minister doesn't shape reality with his words. But his words matter. When Carney stood up in Davos the world listened. It is the same leader, a leader of a G7 nation, that says this. Other leaders are listening, a discourse is taking form.
Yeah, I disagree. I think it makes us look like spineless weasels who can't be relied upon if the US makes any demands of us.
Thankfully, no reasonable adult with any understanding of international relationships would feel the same.
edit: missed words
Right, reasonable adults are instead doing their best to look like a vassal state.
Yeah, I mean I don't really like Carney or his policies, and I hate Trump even more, but this is clearly the only logical approach to dealing with Trump at the moment. Talk is cheap (something Carney clearly understands because he uses talk very cheaply all the time), and Trump loves flattery, and he hates being criticized, and he will irrationally lash out at anyone who does. He's proven that so many times, there's no benefit to aggravating him and giving him a target to fixate on, just let him flail around aimlessly and try to dodge his aimlessly swinging fists.
I'm getting really tired of listening to or wasting almost any attention whatsoever on what people say anymore, because it's all fucking lies anyway. I've started carefully watching what people do instead, and while I have some scathing criticisms of things Carney has done and is doing, the things he's doing also very clearly don't benefit Trump. Trying to make him out to be some Trump-friendly-crony is disingenuous and inaccurate. He's dangerous in his own way, but he's no ally to Trump and the things he's doing to distance the Canadian economy from the US and build lasting international partnerships that are going to define Canada for generations? That's significant stuff.
The frequent praise he offers to Trump is always empty, meaningless words with no real weight behind them and certainly no actions. Carney knows that, and anyone paying attention should know that. Trump is the only one who evidently doesn't know that, but it's also possible he just doesn't care. He's more interested in appearances anyway, and the appearance of having Canada appear to support him is meaningful to him even if it's meaningless in actual fact.
Carney has made it clear he is a committed imperialist maybe stop excusing him?
Yeah I don't like him but Diplomacy with the Mad King bordering our middle power land needs to be considered too.
How about just tell it like it is and gain influence with the countries that matter? The USA is making itself irrelevant, and the people within the USA who do matter are not impressed with their own performance as of late either.
The entire rest of the world combined, is where less than 30% of our exports go. For literally millions and millions of Canadian families, the USA is insanely relevant.
Carney is a fucking clown.
He gave a nice, anti-socialist and anti-labor union speech at Davos, but then immediately turned back on it and went to business as usual. For all of his talk about wanting to break Canada from the US, his attempts are haphazard and he is still committed to making massive deals with US corporations at the expense of Canadians.
Canadians need to stop thinking of politics in terms of a binary system, it really doesn't help that we never got the ranked voting we wanted from Trudeau. But I'm sick of seeing people get annoyed with Liberals and turn to Conservatives, it gets from bad to worse because as a country we can't think outside of those boxes.
I know I'm placing to the choir on this site but it gets so fucking frustrating.
I mean…it was pretty worth it to reduce the effect of the U.S. on the global economy.
As an Iranian I'm devastated that they killed so many people and bombed cultural sites. I'm mad that they destroyed infrastructure. I'm frustrated that their actions strengthened the religious right.
But I'm weirdly proud that their empire came to Iran to die. I'm proud that Iran just flat out refused to sell out to capital, and had made their homework.
Oh don't get me wrong, the destruction is terrible. The deaths are terrible. The cultural sites are incredibly sad. But this could be like the death of the Ottoman empire, the Roman empire, the Qing dynasty, etc.
All of this being led by Israel for decades of course, fomenting hatred of the Iranian people and anyone not Israeli (even Jews that spoke out against Israel). Of course Iran had time to prepare and make sure that they made the war count.
They're getting $300B from this deal. How much of that is going to get to the Iranian people, and how much will the IRGC just keep for themselves?
First of all, the IRGC is not the government of Iran. The IRGC is Iran's second army. It gets hyped up in Western media for propaganda purposes.
However, the IRGC does have construction companies tied to it that likely will get a lot of the reconstruction contracts. I don't think that's what you're insinuating, though.
I might clarify that "selling out to capital" is not the same as getting money. Capital is the ruling class that wants to privatize the national wealth of all countries, and Iran is a major pain in their ass.
From the perspective of someone who's leading a country that's around number 3 or so on Trump's "invade and annex" list, having America lose a war against Iran in an expensive and humiliating manner is very much worth it.
Reading the comments and it can be summed up in:
Where does Carney's integrity start and end, or the lack of. Compared with - political manoeuvring. One is actually for humanity and the other is just an excuse.
I for one, push for the long term, sustainable well being of humankind, not just Canadians. Our politics and government is no different than the US - it's filled with insincere, unfaithful people towards Canadians and humanity all for short term solutions while bowing to external influences that aren't Canadians. Our entire system is barbaric, stuck in the middle ages, the rich have more or less hijacked the system and people are still taking it for granted - even those that are elected in.
another white warmonger , not surprising.
*another warmonger, not surprising.
OK northern Donald trump. Are you trying to appease him or are you just a fucking moron?
If we keep repeating that Iran didn't have a nuclear weapons program, maybe it will become true?
The facts are that Iran gets uranium from Russian already purified to the level needed for their one civilian nuclear reactor. Any purification beyond this is for a nuclear weapons program. No civilian reactor uses uranium purifies above 5% Iran had uranium purified to 60%. Not quite enough to build a nuclear device (though it could be used for a dirty bomb) but way more than for civilian uses.
The IAEA reported that Iran was hiding nuclear material. Geiger counters don't lie.
All in all, Iran was maintaining a capability of building a nuke so that at any time they could have one within a year. Not keeping a loaded weapon, but having some ammunition at the ready.
They still have that material, but reports are they've buried it to prevent it from being moved. There's still some concern obviously, but it will take more than a year for them to construct a nuke now.
Obviously it would've been better to have not cancelled Obama's deal. Trump killed that in his first term, Biden couldn't get a new one negotiated, it wouldn't have mattered if he did since Trump would've just cancelled that too. Maybe Kamala Harris could've gotten Obama's deal reinstated, but dumbass Americans gotta bring back Trump because "both sides".
Carney looks at the world as it is, not how we want it to be. We don't want there to be an Iranian nuclear weapons program, so out of political expediency and "going along to get along" many people just pretend that there is no Iranian nuclear weapons program. We want there to be a US President trustworthy enough to be able to negotiate a deal with Iran, but that's not Trump. Given who is in power in Iran, who is in power in the US, who is in power in Israel, the options were this or there someday being a true believer take power in Iran that fires a nuke at Tel Aviv. Many on this site might be psychopaths that want this, but people that have actual empathy don't want millions of people to die.
What a load of bullshit. This war has done nothing to Iran's nuclear program on the contrary it has proven right the hardliners that see a nuclear program as the only guarantee for regime survival. They never ever will make a deal with powers that have consistently broken ceasefires and used negotiations as stalling tactics. This flagrantly illegal war has killed off any chance for a nuclear deal for a generation. Or do you expect a ground invasion to take care of it?
If anything the one good thing to come out of it is that Iran has figured out that it doesn't need a nuclear program to project power, they can just close the Strait of Hormuz.
You're parotting the Israeli doctrine that in the Middle East might makes right. A profoundly misguided and counterproductive doctrine promulgated by a genocidal, nuclear armed apartheid regime. And you're making it about Tel Aviv being nuked. As if that's more of a realistic nightmare than Israel completing its ongoing genocides in Palestine and Lebanon and expanding it at will in Syria, Turkey, Iran, the works.
What a joke.
You're gonna need to link all your sources. The IAEA has been saying for decades that Iran doesn't have the capability to produce a nuke. The only ones saying otherwise have been the Israel and through Israel, the US.