Users of Arch-based distros, why don't you use pure Arch?
(No provocation)
I see these reasons:
- newbie
- lazy (don't wanna edit config files etc.)
- unique features (like assistant/toolbox, some optimizations like in cachyos)
- wanna check how different systems are set up (that's rather distrohopping)
Personally, I used manjaro i3 when I was beigginer and wanted to see how tiling WM should be configured (check out ranger config, for example). But after some time, I don't see reasons why not to just customize pure arch (same with debian and debian-based distros).
systemd.
I do not want any component imposed. Init-freedom.
(Artix, btw).
Lazy! CachyOS sets up system snapshots and I could one click install gaming related packages. It's not much really, I could install regular Arch instead but meh.
Users of Arch-based distros, do you need help with Gentoo? I won't tell, I promise!
I wanted a rolling release distro, but not a bare bones distro that I have to build from scratch myself.
ArtiX because I don’t want age verification systemd on my computer.
i used to use manjaro because i was scared of the text based installer for Arch. Also i liked the shade of green
Because the PC enables me do do my hobbies (gaming, 3d modelling and printing), the PC itself isn't my hobby. If I spend more time tinkering with the OS than having the OS run the things I actually want to do, I'll go do something else.
I think this is a common misconception about Arch, that it requires continuous tinkering. I see that word used so much, too, "tinkering".
What I've been doing for the past decade is just install Arch, set things up the way I like, and then just keep everything up-to-date as I go. Of course, I install and uninstall things as I try new software, but the OS itself? Zero tinkering. I just use it.
Especially if you only game on it and stuff like that, then simple plain Arch is great. Lean system that just works. Install the things you want and enjoy.
I got two kids and way too many hobbies so I can relate to not wanting to fiddle with the OS. I run Arch on my two home desktop PCs, and my two work laptops. 🤷♂️ Zero maintenance.
Enjoy!
I see what you mean. But in order to reach the point where Arch is configured and my machine Just Works, I would have to learn how to install Arch, what packages I need, what are the ups and downs of the various packages for handling the same things, resolve any conflicts I accidentally created, and then I can get to installing the things I actually want. It's a lot of work and time that isn't going into something I consider fun.
Arch is great for people who want to build their OS to be precisely what they want it to be. I happen to not be one of those people.
Why Arch based distro then? Why not, say, Fedora? Debian. Popos.
The complicated parts of the setup are already done and I still get the benefits of a fast update schedule, without (mostly) having to worry about accidentally breaking something.
And you're right about running another, less finicky distro. It's why I've got Bazzite on the HTPC and the handheld. Because I want those to be zero finicky, as poking around in them is way more of a pain in the ass.
Opensuse tumbleweed would likely be a good choice.
In my case - 90% of Linux issues eventually lead to an Arch Wiki article any way. Might as well give it a go, but I'm too lazy and too much a noob to try the real deal.
I started out with Ubuntu and went straight to Arch. I knew absolutely nothing. I followed the installation guide to a T, and it worked. I didn't understand anything I did. Then I installed it again, in a new computer. I understood a lot more the second time.
You don't need to know what you're doing in order to succeed here. There's a lot of handholding and learning as you go. 🙂
When I was younger, I'd be all over that stuff, and it's great to hear people still do this.
Now? I'm too tired after fixing broken IT shit at work all day, man, I just want to get home, press the power button, watch some funny videos and play some games.
Garuda gives me that experience from the moment of installation to OS maintenance.
I hear that, and I feel that. I completely understand. I'm glad you've found something that works well. 😊
That’s exactly my experience. Now I understand most things I do, and I smile at this ‘installing Arch is difficult.’ No, it’s not. I can install it without any help from the wiki, by memory. As I understand what I’m doing and why. It’s not the difficult part. The difficult part is to make it yours.
I still can't install from memory 😆, even if I understand every step now. The reason is quite simple for me: I install it so rarely because it's so stable. I only ever install it on new hardware. Every computer I have has basically only seen a single Arch install. 👌
AUR, etc
Neither fedora, or debian are logical/user friendly to begin with. I have not looked at popos for a few years, and do not remember it.
Arch elitists don't want you to know this but you can just type archinstall and a text installer guide thingy will install the system for you based on what you tell it.
That said, you're spot on on the last part. I love arch exactly because it is the easiest one to customize the way I want to but it's not for everyone and not everyone should use it
I consider that important knowledge for just using and troubleshooting your system, and one of the great reasons to go through the installation process - knowing what you're using and why means when you want to change the behavior of something or figure out why it broke, you'll know what software to look for.
Not just something to do for fun, or to have precisely the right things, but so you understand what it is you truly do have. This isn't to say your approach is invalid, but for me it's a reason to recommend Arch for people who want to go through the learning process.
I didn't know how until I did it. There's a very comprehensive guide that you follow. If you can follow the recipe for cookie batter and manage to make the cookies, you'll be able to install Arch. 🤟
To be fair that's something you'd have to do regardless of distro, even on Windows. Learning which tools you like takes like half a career worth of time.
As a lazy admin of my own computer, I agree… for the most part. Running Debian allows you to be super lazy, whereas Arch will punish you for that. One update screwed up my GRUB because I didn’t bother reading the news. Totally my fault, learned my lesson.
This means that running Arch comes with some responsibilities that a super lazy Debian admin can simply ignore. Just read the announcements before updating and you’re good. Ignore them at your own peril.
It wasn’t a total disaster though. Just needed to fix my stupid mistake with chroot, and the system was up and running in about half an hour. Debian admins don’t end up with situations like that by being lazy. You would need to be actively trying to break your system to have to pay a price like this.
Other than that, my system has been running smoothly with hardly any interference on my part. The joy of a rolling release…
Yeah, I mean, if I were to admin a fleet of computers or something like that, I would definitely not run Arch on those. 😅
LOL. Same.
Every now and then I find a comment where someone who clearly knows what they’re doing is deploying an Arch server in a work setting. Feeling confident with that decision takes something I don’t have. Maybe it’s experience, knowledge or something.
I believe there are docker images for Arch? But those probably have some form of reproducibility, I should hope. Since you can't install specific versions of packages declaratively with pacman unless you have physical access to the actual package file, I would not use it for a server. Maybe coupled with Guix or something? I dunno.
Maybe they need an environment with very up-to-date packages, or something along that vein. 🤔
Docker would be the sensible approach.
Imagine if the new version of some package is only compatible with the old version of PHP, but now Arch is using the new one. The admin would have to keep the old version of PHP until the devs of that other package release an update. I recall reading something about pacman not supporting partial upgrades like that.
Exactly, partial upgrades are not supported. Always best to do a pacman -Syu to upgrade the entire system instead of just one package.
At least that's the case for system packages. More isolated packages don't need as much care or carry much risk of rendering a system unbootable or similar risks, but I say it's like signaling your turn when driving even if no one is around — best to just make it a habit. 🙂
Why do people say to keep Arch healthy you must follow the mailing list for needed manual changes for some upgrades? It that a misconception?
That's not a misconception, but with a slight modification. Stick around:
First of all, you can decide to do an upgrade at your own leisure. There's no need to run it 10 times a day as some memes will have you believe. I upgrade probably once a week, but I feel like that's a lot. If nothing is broken, no need to upgrade. Of course, I want to keep up with security updates and browser updates, so when those happen, I tend to upgrade too. So probably once every six weeks should be enough (keep up with the browser schedule).
Anyway, the modification I mentioned is that you don't need to follow anything. The only thing you should to do is to check archlinux.org for any news items before you upgrade. It's extremely rare that there are manual actions needed, and when there are, it's even more seldom for a package that I personally have installed. I think maybe once or twice in a decade I've had to actually do anything, and it's been minor. It always has the exact command or tells you exactly what to do. They never leave you on your own with these things.
A lot less maintenance than Windows back when I was running that, I'll tell you that much.
Thanks for the response and the clarification.
I haven't run Windows in 25 years and I no plans to. I've actually been using linux for my desktop all that time, including gentoo for several years. Personally, I think people should use whatever os they like and the more choices the better!
Definitely, fully agree. Gentoo I can imagine is more maintenance than Arch, even. At least a lot more waiting around. 😅 But maybe that's a misconception, too!
But yeah, definitely use whatever you like. I just want to clear up the misconception that Arch is heavy on maintenance. It most definitely is not, unless you want it to be.
I originally switched to Gentoo when I got my first AMD64 workstation. Gentoo was the only distro with full support and optimization for a little while.
For a big build I would kick it off at bed time :)
Ah, neat. I assume it had early support since you compile the packages yourself?
And tell me if you will: did it ever occur that a build had failed when you woke up? 😅 Or maybe builds didn't really fail? How common was that?
I’ve spent far too much of my life configuring computers. I want to do as little configuring as possible. Also, I’d heard that Cachy had custom kernel changes that made pretty much any game run better.
Games run phenomenally, not sure why I’d go try anything else. (Bazzite, mint, zorin did not work with my setup)
Same. I worked with Linux professionally for 15+ years but my main battle station runs Bazzite, and home server runs unraid. Pretty much as plug-and-play as you can get. Laptop however is on NixOS so that I can swap configs depending on usecase.
FWIW I tried catchyOS as a comparison to Bazzite and I prefer bazzite.
I tried pure Arch. Installed it and then realized I have to set up everything myself and lost all motivation. Didn't know about archinstall at that time. Found CachyOS and stuck with it. It runs perfectly and I see no reason to switch.
i've been customizing linux for 15 years. it's nice to just sit down with something that works.
This is me but 25 years as my main os. I just don't care to configure if something exists already so I can do the things I actually care about. It's not the flex that people think it is to install arch. If you can follow the recipe to make boxed Mac and cheese and you can install arch assuming you have do not value your time.
i mean it is a learning experience, at least for beginners. but so is lfs.
Could just use the os for one too
I love the rolling release model, and the AUR. (I even maintain some packages on AUR.) I have installed and used pure Arch in the past, if only for the rite of passage.
But nowadays I mostly use EndeavourOS. It's basically Arch once it's installed, but has a nice and fast installer, with great defaults. Also, the community is awesome. I rarely need any help anymore, but I still like hanging out in their forums helping others, and generally chatting about non-Linux stuff.
Definitely not a good time to love the AUR rn tho
Idk, I feel like it's blown out of proportions a bit. It's always supposed to be unsupported, and users are supposed to look at the PKGBUILD files. I know most people don't, but I don't think that's AUR's fault.
I use Arch (btw) so I half agree but Arch nowadays is a much more mainstream distro, especially thanks to its derivatives so some sort of security should be implemented on the AUR.
I used EndeavourOS for a long time. I liked it mainly for the Sway config making it all so nice out of the box. And of course the easy install.
What differences are there between Endeavour's sway config and sway's own default config?
from this to this
Neat, what is that, waybar and fuzzel? rofi?
Ay, also, props for using kagi. You a paying customer? Thinking of it myself but I'm not sure the pricing is for me. Either way it seems pretty alright, results wise. The privacy is also nice. Using the free tier right now. 100 searches/month is puny though. It's a good tease. 😅
Yea that 100 searches runs out really quickly! That's how they get you: offer a great service for free with limits, a very cheap subscription to switch to, and within months you're on it :D But I do like it. Upvoting, downvoting sources so they move up or down in each subsequent ranking, or blocking sources outright. All very convenient!
As for the bars, waybar on the EOS version, but what the vanilla sway came with, I can't remember. Also, I made the switch to niri+DMS last week, saying goodbye to Sway after many years. Mainly for the extra workspaces, as the 9 in sway was too limited.
Definitely seems like a great service so far, agreed!
Ah, nice! I'm also on Niri, but with Noctalia shell. I came from over a decade on i3, then a short while on Hyprland, then on to Niri. Thought I would write my own bar using Quickshell, but it turns out several others had already done so, and a muuuch more comprehensive system as well. 😆 Very nice.
haha indeed, why reinvent the wheel :D I hadn't heard of Noctalia, it looks beautiful. Once I'm done gawking over DMS, I might try switching :)
Yeah it's great. I tried DMS and Noctalia very briefly before settling on Noctalia. They're very similar in purpose and functionality I would say. Mess around with the settings and see what your vibe is and what your gut tells you, is what I would say. Very much down to preference. Best of luck!
I like endeavour cause of the pretty wallpapers
I don't use Arch anymore but I can imagine that the install process turned a lot of people off it or pivoted them to stuff like Manjaro, CachyOS, Endeavour etc. It isn't until recently that ArchInstall has become VERY good and simple.
Primary factor even with Archinstall is if you're trying to install Arch via Wifi. you have to do iwd and all that and for someone who isn't quite as comfortable on the command line yet that can be daunting. Even now for myself if I were installing Arch I still have to pull up the Arch Wiki during install cause I can never remember the iwd commands for wifi. I've also borked the install a couple times because I either forgot to include the networkmanager or selected the wrong video drivers.
I haven't run Arch in a few months, but I used to use CachyOS and Artix.
In the case of CachyOS, the repos have a few packages from the AUR pre-compiled, and
linux-cachyos-hardenedis a fantastic kernel flavour.Artix, meanwhile, lets me use runit instead of systemd.
I also like the idea of Linux-libre, for which I would probably use Hyperbola (if not Guix). However, the only machine I own with a compatible WiFi chipset is a 32-bit MacBook from the 2000s, which I haven't seen since 2024.
The preconfigured desktop and software is irrelevant to me. I have my own DE recipes and workflows that I can replicate across most Linux distros and BSDs.
Artix, because Arch mandates systemd and I don't want systemd.
I run EndeavourOS on my wife's laptop because it was easy to install.
Sorta first time Linux user, picked CachyOS because it came with friendly installer and startup install guide/automation. Unlike last time i tried Linux to run some python project on the GPU I never managed to install CUDA.
CachyOS promised out of box support, wine/proton directly, and the selection of default tools got me far along the Windows migration. So far no issues even compiling programs that need CUDA drivers and more. Haven't really gamed a lot, but this OS is supposed to be good for that.
I googled 'gaming Linux distribution' and it basically gave me popos and cachy. Didn't like popos
LOL COSMIC is so not ready for a 1.0, honestly it is cursed ATM. System76 needed to leave that cake in the oven and let it bake longer! However, I do appreciate the direction that COSMIC is going, it just needs more time.
Did you tried install games from
setup.exeinstaller? I tried wine, lutris, steam (via add non-steam game), but never had a success.No, just steam content. Did you check winedb/protondb?
I chose EndeavourOS initially because I was relatively new to Linux (I tinkered with Ubuntu in grade school) and wanted out of Microsoft's environment. The support community is amazing and newbie-friendly. They've helped me through a few bricked systems.
Now I'm at a crux because I own a 1080 and am tired of mistakenly breaking my installation because NVIDIA stopped supporting open source drivers for old cards. I felt uncomfortable building my own driver packages and was relying on AUR, but the recent security breach has me skittish.
Rather than switch to another distro (Mint being the top contender), I decided to replace my graphics card and stay with Endeavour because it seems the Arch distros are the only ones staunchly against age verification laws. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to update and stick with Endeavour. Maybe when I actually get good at Linux I'll switch to pure Arch.
I do it because if I can save myself some busywork and have a ready to go and maintain system...From after an install, I much prefer that. I don't see the point of installing purely vanilla Arch. There are use cases where this would make sense, but I honestly cannot be arsed. Garuda Linux takes the pain in my arse out of Arch, makes it fun to use. Easy to keep up with .pacdiffs, merging when appropriate (or skipping pointless mergers because they build the damn distro, so they stop pointless busywork from bothering users).
I get access to the latest software and kernels, smooth performance, and all I have to do is pay attention to breaking changes (implement the fix post update) in exchange. It's a pretty damn fine deal. The safety nets that Garuda Linux provides over traditional Arch (which is historically minimal by design) is a better deal in my opinion. However, if I had the drive; I feel like I am beginning to understand the workflow enough to potentially reproduce something similar (not one to one) on a vanilla Arch install.
Now don't get me wrong, the archinstall script is pretty cool, the only bane about it is needing to be connected to the internet. Connecting via a command, rough AF. I honestly might've misspelled that command and not noticed during a frantic moment (it was a floptina moment for me, so, Arch isn't to blame). Garuda Linux lowered the barrier, just enough that I got my foot in and got really comfortable with manual interventions and the like. But they also kept it high enough to isolate me from the AUR, but let me have their nice properly managed ChaoticAUR instead.
Even more so if you’re using a non-US qwerty keyboard were many of the special symbols are swapped. Christ I spent a lot of time figuring where everything was.
I'm surprised to hear that archinstall doesn't start with setting the keyboard layout. I have only installed manually and IIRC the installation guide shows how to change the layout as the first step after booting into the installer.
Yea, that would in my book be more important as it would make it WAY easier for the rest of the world 😅
I imagine a non-US QWERTY keyboard would be a boss battle, it would require just being absolutely locked in and ready to install Arch. Sadly, that day I really wasn't locked in on my US Keyboard...
Yea sometimes I like my stubbornness, but I’m not sure it was this one 🙃
LOL I mean situationally, stubbornness is a boon and a bane wrapped in one! I'm glad you succeeded, but, the cost was likely fairly high in the moment after that success. I would've loved to have succeeded because I could truly say, "I use Arch, BTW." Right now, I say, "I use Garuda with Batteries Included, BTW." Not as catchy.
The installation process is intimidating for a lot of people.
I taught a friend Linux using the Arch install process.
They use EndevourOS because installation took 15 minutes instead of 3 hours.
Doesn't Arch have an installer these days?
It does have an install script that runs an interactive TUI, it's not a Calamares or Anaconda like experience but...It is serviceable in it's own right, it reduces the tedium of installing vanilla Arch by a mile. Does require internet access, so as long as you can connect to the internet and update the script before launching it. You'd be having a good time. As they even offer a few DEs and a WM out of the box, or none so you can install whatever with commands (like if you have a config that you love and won't compromise on).
Personally, I am big into Garuda Linux, I like the vibes the team has, the approach of their distribution. Their installer is so amazingly fast that it...Blows my mind, it was even faster than installing Fedora. Wild, to be completely honest.
You say this as if discussions here would be based on reality instead of memes...
lazy + unique features
like someone just fixed the isp4 webcam for my zbook, it's not even in the mainline kernel yet but at somepoint cachy's kernel started working perfectly with my webcam where before I had to build my own
I didn't have time to set up arch manually as I wanted, after two/three hours I still didn't have a desktop environment and needed a working PC in the afternoon. I tried both cachyos and endeavouros, they're both good and they just work (TM). If I were to format the PC another time I guess I could try again with arch Linux, always happy to learn new stuff.
Endeavor is just arch with a graphical installer takes 5 minst to install comes with a script to install nvidia drivers. I am far far from a nebie but it is just convenient. Also use cachy is repos which are faster
I use CachyOS because I don't feel like going through the hassle of installing drivers for my 1070ti. The kernel optimizations are nice, tho.
I've been using bare Arch for a while but after five or so installs I couldn't be bothered anymore and realized that EndeavourOS is basically doing exactly what I'm looking for.
So it's mostly the installer.
I have no reason to use a raw distro that requires customization when there’s a better version that already comes preconfigured.
I use the Calam Arch Installer ISO to install Arch. It's the same GUI installer that most downstream Arch derivatives use, but configured to install base Arch. No dealing with messy terminal install process and you end up with pure Arch install at the end. If all the downstream distros give you is an easy installer, this exists for base Arch as well even if it is a third party thing.
I did a pure Arch setup in a VM before I made the ultimate switch to CachyOS. I did not use the installer script but followed the guide on the wiki to get the basics running, and then I customized from there.
And while I'm glad I got that experience, because it taught me how much is really going on under the hood, I discovered that I simply don't enjoy that level of tinkering. It's not laziness, it's a lack of enjoyment towards the process.
Using Garuda Linux.
I'm a lazy newb who enjoys QOL features and Gardua has a bunch of those. For instance - suggests which gaming apps to install during the initial set up, and comes with a "Garuda Toolbox" which helps take care of OS maintenance.
Same. Garuda has by far been the most "it just works" OS i've used.
I guess, same reason why we use Debian or Arch and not just LFS
I want to, I've used arch in the past for a bit, then bazzite and then cachyos.
I want to go back to arch and set it up manually following a guide just to get more familiar with it, I just haven't had the time right now and cachyos has been working great
I’ve installed arch manually a few times. The last time I did it I had issues with my nvidia gpu and plasma glitching out drawing weird lines on the screen. I got tired of trying to fix it and went back to windows for a while. Figured I’d try crunchyos to see if their setup resolved that and it did. And now that it’s installed there’s no reason to uninstall.
While not answering the question, the first "user friendly" arch based distro I tried out was endeavour and I remember going back to vanilla arch after realizing how bloaty it was.
I don't want SystemD.
im lazy :D
I've ran vanilla Arch multiple times in the past, and each time it was for the 'fun'of building out my system, this was mainly back when I was a uni student.
These days however, I just want something that works well for my use case.
Got tired of consistently running into problems trying to set it up(e.g,, messing up the UUID)
Because pure Arch does not give me a choice of init system (Artix)
I am indeed lazy lol
I use CachyOS because I'm lazy, I did spend some time tinkering with it to make it closer to Arch
I will probably migrate to a pure Arch install or gentoo next when I feel like it
I taught myself how to properly configure things on Linux using EndeavourOS but ended up sticking with it because there is no real reason for me to switch to pure arch. On my laptop I have NixOS and occasionally notice some of the disadvantages of having not having things pre-installed.
I use endeavourOS. If im getting the same OS but with a more mindless installation process and decent wallpapers, why not?
Not a masochist and Arch is the only distro I'm aware of that comes close to Windows in terms of package availability (i.e. if it exists and is either open source or prebuilt I can get it on Arch). Cachy specifically for their optimized custom kernels, but lately I've been really wishing they had a bigger team and were sponsored, as some packages can lag behind for quite some time. Same for packages in the Arch repo.
What for? Quality over quality? It works fine. I doubt that the alternative would be any better. Plus, it will take a lot of time, many as myself don't have
SO I CAN FEEL SUPREME!!!
And so I can configure EVERYTHING
But I dont use Arch right now.
Fedora has a nice "ecosystem" or more like unixsystem", too and its ready out of the box and has copr similar to aur which is integrated in the official dnf package manager and super-frequent updates including kernel ones AND last 1-2 kernels for backup..... it seems much better than Arch, right off the bat thought.
Gentoo, on the other hand... yes okay maybe a decent PC required... but.. it feels good
I needed a fresh install and didn't want a lot of downtime. Cachyos basically worked without much effort so I didn't have a reason to change it.
Pretty much sums up to being lazy and not wanting to fiddle with configs, we’re perfectly fine with KDE. Plus it’s a great way to familiar ourselves with since our so uses the same distros (Cachy)
Other (bigger reason) is that it’s a no fuss arch experience. Even get a little button to update everything for you, it’s pretty nice since we just need the thing to work cuz it’s also the save pc we use for work.
I use both CachyOS (on my steam deck) and pure Arch on my Desktop, and Laptop.
I like both. But I just don't feel like reinstalling my OS, though I was investigating using the CachyOS kernel and Repos within my current Arch install; and ultimately decided I would go CachyOS if I really wanted those optimizations. Not sure what performance gain from that switch I would realistically see.
I am not opposed to either route. Whatever tool fits the job. CachyOS on my Steam Deck because I didn't want an atomic distro, even if I do see the benfits. I have had good experience with CachyOS on my Steam Deck.
Your reasons and mileage may vary.
Manjaro is too logical in multiple ways.
Arch. When you can't Gentoo, but are too proud to tell everyone directly.
Last time I installed Arch I just told Codex to build an ISO with my favorite stuff, flashed the physical media, and started using it. Now that's a one step setup
Do you have it detailed somewhere? A blog or something. Would be interesting to see what it looks like.
You can make your own image, read the Arch official manual
Nah, but it's an sdcard with arm arch for raspberry pi. It runs wayland/gnome and has full fps to a little display I keep on my desk. I had Codex install various gnome shell plugins to give compiz-y window effects. I even had it set up zram (compressed ram) to optimize the machine. It's so much easier than when I had to actually read the wiki and type into some keyboard with my meat sticks. Now I can just tell my computer to fix itself and it does. I've had it configure and manage kubernetes clusters before, that works great too. Run LLMs as full yolo root my guys
Arch. When you can't Gentoo, but are too proud to tell everyone directly.