WTF was the select button actually for? I get start because it was often the button on arcades or gamepads that allowed you to choose menu options (which still works but has mostly been replaced by A).
Select and Start was how the Atari 2600 did things. At the time, everybody was designing in terms of having one set of controls for when you're in the game, and a set of meta-controls for adjusting stuff outside the game. The 2600 configuration GUI was the dumbest thing in the world. You look at a grid chart of game options in the manual, and you press the Select button 35 times to get to the version that you want.
The Famicom was much more able to draw and interact with a real configuration GUI. But Nintendo's own experience was mostly in making the arcade game "Donkey Kong", where you pick how many players by "pressing" the insert coin button and then Start. Nintendo was selling to a market that mostly knows home games from picking up a 2600 at a bankruptcy sale. So, keeping the separate meta-game buttons and game buttons was natural at the time. Later games developed a better design language for the meta-game UI, so most game studios left the Select/Start interface behind.
(Lol now I see that TubbyCustard said it all, but better)
The start button back then was called the reset switch. Hit reset when you get to game 13, you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah, the game select switch was on the console, which was the style at the time.
Oh yeah, they did put "reset" on it huh? I don't know how they ever came up with that. Everywhere else, "reset" means "device gets zeroed out to its initialization state". The only real reset was to turn the system off and on again. On some of those Atari originals, when you press select one time too many turning it off is the fastest way to start back around again. Video Olympics I'm looking at you
Honestly I call them "start" and "the tab button."
I grew up with a PlayStation and PS2 but haven't owned any console since the switch, preferring PC. So I remember start because it's the start menu but select is usually on tab on PC.
I get being nostalgic for Start/Select but how does Options/Share not make more sense? The options button brings up a menu of options for most games and share allows you to share screenshots or video from the game. Whereas start did the same thing options does now which has nothing to do with the word Start and Select was sorta a catch all button for an action you only used occasionally, but was never used for selecting which was usually X but sometimes one of the other shapes.
Options I kinda get but it sounds dumb to me, would've been better as "menu" because it's not exclusively for options, also for pausing and other menus.
Share isn't what that button normally does at all in my mind, sure maybe PlayStation have it bound to that but normally it brings up an alternate menu to start that isn't the pause menu (like in Minecraft and overwatch it brings up player list/scoreboard as an example
I haven’t played Overwatch or Minecraft but every game I’ve played with one of those options used pressing in the touchpad to do that. I’ve never played a game where the share button didn’t share somehow.
I do agree that menu would’ve been a better name, but that doesn’t mean that Options doesn’t make more sense than Start which is what the original comment said.
The traditional role of the Select button is actually handled via the D-pad in most games. It was the button you used to change your selection, not to actually select something (that would be done with Start.)
Of course, even in the NES era past the first couple of years menus could generally be navigated with the D-pad, so even then Select was pretty useless, which is probably why the Genesis didn't bother with it.
I think it’s specifically a PS4/PS5 thing. I couldn’t find other controllers with an Options/Share combination. And I imagine if you use a PS4/PS5 controller for PC, it handles it differently. But it makes sense since the controller wasn’t designed for that.
Yeah, same. I actually forget the name of the button, too, so when I give someone the controller so they can play and they ask “how do I open the menu?” I’ll say “oh press start. It’s not called start actually but you know press the button that looks like it should be called start.”
Could we take the guy who put a dedicated screenshot button on the controller instead of another options button and drown him in the nearest septic tank?
I'm not sure who in the name of all fuck decided that controllers should have a dedicated Tweeting button, but I suspect this gen will be the last of that.
Curiously enough, the "start" button is now more of a "pause" button. Sometimes also a "skip cutscene" and "open menu" button. Microsoft was into something by actually renaming it to "menu" in the Xbox, since that's what it's used for nowadays. Sony probably chose to call it "options" on the PS4 onwards solely to avoid being sued for plagiarism.
What are you talking about? The NES was what solidified the select/start names for me. No matter what any manufacturers call the two bottoms in the center of their controller, they will always be select and start.
My main controller is the 8bitdo sf30 pro, which as basically the Super Famicom controller but with sticks and extra buttons for modern functionality labels them Start and Select, as ordained by heaven.
Sure, over the course of making 253489291647802 controllers with that savings we can use the excess profit to throw a pizza party instead of paying you a living wage!
Somehow I doubt making them smaller has any meaningful impact on the manufacturing cost. It's probably purely for space saving/design reasons to have room for the touch pad/tiny joy cons
I didn't see the controllers on first viewing and had to read through the other comments to know what this was referring to. I originally assumed some new Windows thing (haven't used 11 and with any luck I never will). I didn't even realize there were consoles that didn't call it the start button.
I didn't even realize till like last year that the big square button in the middle was also a touchpad. I kept going into the map in farcry and it would keep wiggling around. Didn't realize till later that you can use that pad as a cursor
My primary gaming is on Xbox and I still can't tell the hamburger and copy button icons apart without looking at them when a game refers to them in a tutorial or menu.
Nope. Left is and always will be select, right is start. No matter the console or designated name. It was select/start on SNES, PS1, ps2, ps3 etc. So it will continue to be.
The logo button I call 'home' or 'guide' button from Xbox, but I will accept xmb or PlayStation button or the analog/dual shock button because that's what was there on the ps2.
The only reason I consider it that way is that the middle button is far more convenient and easy to hit than the options one, and "start" is the main non-face button to me.
What boomers? Gen Z was the first to mostly grow up without a Start button - and even then, the older ones might still remember the PS3/Xbox 360 Controllers.
Eh, it’s always a gamble if you make a joke or reference to something. Reddit was the same way. Even if it’s well received in general there will be people who don’t get it “correcting” you in the comments. Just gotta keep trucking and trust that your target audience knows what you’re talking about.
I liked your comment fwiw. The whole concept here is sticking with what you know despite it being outdated, which many now understand to be a “boomer” trait regardless of someone’s birth year
What generation? Gen-Z starts somewhere from the mid-late-1990s and goes to around 2010. The eight console generation, that got rid of the start button came out in 2013. So I would assume that almost all Millennials started playing videogames on a console with a start button, and all Gen Alpha started with options. What other generation would be the cutoff point?
It's select and start.
What's it supposed to be, windows and hamburgers?
I won't give it up. Select and Start.
My wife makes fun of me for it whenever we play couch co-op games. "What do you mean press start? My controller doesn't have a Start"
So you married her for her looks, it could be worse.
I mean, she's still a gamer at least...
"Press the button formerly known as Start"
Will you let it down?
It’s going to be windows and hamburgers to me from now on
I'm 100% Hamburger and Tie Fighter.
I thought it about it again. Should have said cheese slices and hamburgers.
You were spot on the first time. It’s windows and hamburgers!
⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️🅱️🅰️🅱️🅰️[select][start]
REST 30 REST 30
🏅🏅🏅🏅 🎖️🎖️🎖️🎖️
That's one too many BAs, there.
bananana 😋
"Once I start doing the Konami code, I just can't stop!"
Know what I'm saying?
WTF was the select button actually for? I get start because it was often the button on arcades or gamepads that allowed you to choose menu options (which still works but has mostly been replaced by A).
What were we supposed to be "selecting"?
On the title screen of older NES games, the select button changed what mode you played in, then you hit start to start that mode/variation.
Ahh this makes sense. I played a lot of NES as a kid but must have just never encountered it
You always played the default game mode.
It was silly to have a dedicated button for it when pressing up and down to select options works just fine.
Select and Start was how the Atari 2600 did things. At the time, everybody was designing in terms of having one set of controls for when you're in the game, and a set of meta-controls for adjusting stuff outside the game. The 2600 configuration GUI was the dumbest thing in the world. You look at a grid chart of game options in the manual, and you press the Select button 35 times to get to the version that you want.
The Famicom was much more able to draw and interact with a real configuration GUI. But Nintendo's own experience was mostly in making the arcade game "Donkey Kong", where you pick how many players by "pressing" the insert coin button and then Start. Nintendo was selling to a market that mostly knows home games from picking up a 2600 at a bankruptcy sale. So, keeping the separate meta-game buttons and game buttons was natural at the time. Later games developed a better design language for the meta-game UI, so most game studios left the Select/Start interface behind.
(Lol now I see that TubbyCustard said it all, but better)
The start button back then was called the reset switch. Hit reset when you get to game 13, you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah, the game select switch was on the console, which was the style at the time.
Give me 5 bees for a quarter!
Oh yeah, they did put "reset" on it huh? I don't know how they ever came up with that. Everywhere else, "reset" means "device gets zeroed out to its initialization state". The only real reset was to turn the system off and on again. On some of those Atari originals, when you press select one time too many turning it off is the fastest way to start back around again. Video Olympics I'm looking at you
I used to have a black and white Binatone TV game knockoff.
10 games, mostly variations of Pong. All the game options like speed and bat size were big physical toggle switches on the main unit.
It was originally for selecting different options.
You're on the start screen and it says:
1 Player.
2 Players.
You press select to choose which one. That's just an example, lots of NES games were like that.
I actually have a windows button on my gaming device. Still searching for the hamburgers button though
Honestly I call them "start" and "the tab button."
I grew up with a PlayStation and PS2 but haven't owned any console since the switch, preferring PC. So I remember start because it's the start menu but select is usually on tab on PC.
This is the way.
Did the buttons really need renaming? It's not like options and share or + and - make any more sense
I get being nostalgic for Start/Select but how does Options/Share not make more sense? The options button brings up a menu of options for most games and share allows you to share screenshots or video from the game. Whereas start did the same thing options does now which has nothing to do with the word Start and Select was sorta a catch all button for an action you only used occasionally, but was never used for selecting which was usually X but sometimes one of the other shapes.
Options I kinda get but it sounds dumb to me, would've been better as "menu" because it's not exclusively for options, also for pausing and other menus.
Share isn't what that button normally does at all in my mind, sure maybe PlayStation have it bound to that but normally it brings up an alternate menu to start that isn't the pause menu (like in Minecraft and overwatch it brings up player list/scoreboard as an example
A lot of games I believe use it for the map too
I haven’t played Overwatch or Minecraft but every game I’ve played with one of those options used pressing in the touchpad to do that. I’ve never played a game where the share button didn’t share somehow.
I just looked it up and for Minecraft it’s used to take a screenshot or bring up a screenshot menu. I couldn’t find anything for Overwatch though. Are you sure you didn’t remap the button? Or are you using it for PC? It might work different in that case.
I do agree that menu would’ve been a better name, but that doesn’t mean that Options doesn’t make more sense than Start which is what the original comment said.
I was thinking of java edition Minecraft which I now realize I made my own configuration for
Still, not sure where I've got it from but I've definitely got the idea the select button is for menus that aren't the start menu
The traditional role of the Select button is actually handled via the D-pad in most games. It was the button you used to change your selection, not to actually select something (that would be done with Start.)
Of course, even in the NES era past the first couple of years menus could generally be navigated with the D-pad, so even then Select was pretty useless, which is probably why the Genesis didn't bother with it.
Is that functionality for share a console specific thing? I don't remember any games that used it for that purpose (on pc)
I think it’s specifically a PS4/PS5 thing. I couldn’t find other controllers with an Options/Share combination. And I imagine if you use a PS4/PS5 controller for PC, it handles it differently. But it makes sense since the controller wasn’t designed for that.
Start and Select for life. SNES was my first gamepad.
Brother
My nephew was so confused when I kept telling him to press "Select" when we played on a PS5.
You must teach the boy the old ways.
Yeah, same. I actually forget the name of the button, too, so when I give someone the controller so they can play and they ask “how do I open the menu?” I’ll say “oh press start. It’s not called start actually but you know press the button that looks like it should be called start.”
Everytime I start up Burnout: Paradise Remastered it tells me to hit Options to start the game. No! It's Start to start!
Blasphemy
Could we take the guy who put a dedicated screenshot button on the controller instead of another options button and drown him in the nearest septic tank?
The touchpad is just "big select".
I'm not sure who in the name of all fuck decided that controllers should have a dedicated Tweeting button, but I suspect this gen will be the last of that.
Same. My older SO corrects me. I won't have any of it.
I'm sorry, are we discussing paddles?
Everywhere I look, you’re 40% of Lemmy
Just doing my part!
Like...the Atari kind? Because I'm old enough for those.
Wanna play some Combat?
Hello my name MonsiuerPatEBrown, and I use two spaces after a period.
I like to think that you did it here too, even without a 2nd sentence.
Man my brain must be getting old, I just like the way it looks mang
So... I believe I'm old now...
*insert "I'm in this meme and I don't like it" picture.
But....we have two buttons right? The right one was always start and the left one was options ig? I'm an Xbox 360 player
start and select
This habit is pre Xbox 360
Curiously enough, the "start" button is now more of a "pause" button. Sometimes also a "skip cutscene" and "open menu" button. Microsoft was into something by actually renaming it to "menu" in the Xbox, since that's what it's used for nowadays. Sony probably chose to call it "options" on the PS4 onwards solely to avoid being sued for plagiarism.
That's entirely reasonable and even noble.
Should've gone the Nintendo route and used symbols. "+" and "-"
What are you talking about? The NES was what solidified the select/start names for me. No matter what any manufacturers call the two bottoms in the center of their controller, they will always be select and start.
What I wouldnt give for two bottoms in the center of my controller right now
They already have symbols for their face buttons, PS using symbols for start and select would make more sense than any other company
Let's not get political now.
My main controller is the 8bitdo sf30 pro, which as basically the Super Famicom controller but with sticks and extra buttons for modern functionality labels them Start and Select, as ordained by heaven.
This is why 8bitdo is the best
holy shit I'm not alone
Yes you are. So very, very alone.
the worst is when they change the shapes to make them smaller (switch & ps5), gotta save pennies on manufacturing costs i guess
Sure, over the course of making 253489291647802 controllers with that savings we can use the excess profit to throw a pizza party instead of paying you a living wage!
Somehow I doubt making them smaller has any meaningful impact on the manufacturing cost. It's probably purely for space saving/design reasons to have room for the touch pad/tiny joy cons
I didn't see the controllers on first viewing and had to read through the other comments to know what this was referring to. I originally assumed some new Windows thing (haven't used 11 and with any luck I never will). I didn't even realize there were consoles that didn't call it the start button.
I think they haven't been calling it that for a while. Hasn't stopped me though.
That would explain why none of my students could tell me which button was start, jeeze
I didn't even realize till like last year that the big square button in the middle was also a touchpad. I kept going into the map in farcry and it would keep wiggling around. Didn't realize till later that you can use that pad as a cursor
If you connect it to a PC, it works like a laptop touchpad.
The zoomers of today are the the boomers of tomorrow.
On one hand yeah sure back in the day I get it.
Now dang near every game is press x to continue/begin so the start button just begs a question.
On Xbox we have Big X and Little X too!
My primary gaming is on Xbox and I still can't tell the hamburger and copy button icons apart without looking at them when a game refers to them in a tutorial or menu.
In another timeline, Windows 95 introduced the 'Options' button, a revolutionary breakthrough in graphical interface design.
No, the start button is the giant one in the middle, "options" is "select."
Nope. Left is and always will be select, right is start. No matter the console or designated name. It was select/start on SNES, PS1, ps2, ps3 etc. So it will continue to be.
The logo button I call 'home' or 'guide' button from Xbox, but I will accept xmb or PlayStation button or the analog/dual shock button because that's what was there on the ps2.
The only reason I consider it that way is that the middle button is far more convenient and easy to hit than the options one, and "start" is the main non-face button to me.
The boomer traits of old gamers
What boomers? Gen Z was the first to mostly grow up without a Start button - and even then, the older ones might still remember the PS3/Xbox 360 Controllers.
As explained in the other chains it was a joke about the "my boomer trait is ABC"
Really tired of how quickly people jump down each other throats on this platform
Eh, it’s always a gamble if you make a joke or reference to something. Reddit was the same way. Even if it’s well received in general there will be people who don’t get it “correcting” you in the comments. Just gotta keep trucking and trust that your target audience knows what you’re talking about.
I liked your comment fwiw. The whole concept here is sticking with what you know despite it being outdated, which many now understand to be a “boomer” trait regardless of someone’s birth year
It's a bit of a gamble really
Some will see it as the joke it is some won't
Personally when I see people referring to stuff that obviously isn't a boomer thing as a boomer thing I see it as a joke
Of course I'm old enough to have known someone who remembered his older brother going off to fight in "The Great War" so I might be a bit old.
You're skipping a generation.
But we're used to it, so whatever.
What generation? Gen-Z starts somewhere from the mid-late-1990s and goes to around 2010. The eight console generation, that got rid of the start button came out in 2013. So I would assume that almost all Millennials started playing videogames on a console with a start button, and all Gen Alpha started with options. What other generation would be the cutoff point?
You misunderstood what thier joke was saying
Gen Z here, I had a ps2, ps3 and psp which all had start and select. I was a child but that's still how I learned it
I understood your comment, DreamButt. I call any old person stuff I do "boomer" habits.
Boomers didn't play video games. If you're going to joke with generational slurs at least get the generations right.
Was moreso joking in the way people say "XYZ is my boomer trait," but sure
To be clear I also call it a start button (because that's what it is)
Oh I know. I'm just saying. Calling anything boomer regarding video games doesn't make sense though.
Gen X is the first game generation.
It's cool. I got the joke.
It's a reference to the "30 year old boomer" meme about millennials that act like boomers.