China wants to ban clothes that 'hurt nation's feelings'
A draft law banning speech and dressing "detrimental to the spirit of Chinese people" has sparked debate in China.
If the law comes into force, people found guilty could be fined or jailed but the proposal does not yet spell out what constitutes a violation.
Social media users and legal experts have called for more clarity to avoid excessive enforcement.
China recently released a swathe of proposed changes to its public security laws - the first reforms in decades.
The clothing law has drawn immediate reaction from the public - with many online criticising it as excessive and absurd.
The contentious clauses suggest that people who wear or force others to wear clothing and symbols that "undermine the spirit or hurt the feelings of the Chinese nation" could be detained for up to 15 days and fined up to 5,000 yuan ($680; £550).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66737272Open linkView original on lemmy.world
I find this kind of interesting after Naomi Wu (also known as SexyCyborg) recently had a run-in with the CCP and has largely gone silent online.
For anyone not familiar with her/her situation, she's a tech/maker YouTuber. She has a pretty radical look with enormous fake boobs and skimpy outfits, but she does have some genuinely interesting content. She had been calling out some security vulnerabilities that recently got some attention so that's likely why the Chinese government, in her words, clipped her wings, but she had a bit of a target painted on her back regardless because of her appearance, being a lesbian, and because her girlfriend is a Uyghur.
"Bit of a target" indeed. She's like a walking Bingo card of everything China suppresses.
Hope she's okay.
The wild part to me is that overall I never got the impression from anything I saw from her that she was particularly anti-ccp, some of the annoyed grumbling I'd expect from literally anybody living under any government in the world, but that's about it. Overall she seemed to be a pretty proud Chinese citizen, and probably a good spokesperson for the Chinese tech sector, from watching her videos I know that I'm slightly less quick to dismiss any Chinese gadgets as chinesium garbage. I'd think she'd be more useful to keep around for PR purposes, but after her previous incidents didn't make significant waves with her western audience, it seems that they figured they're free to bully her however they want to now.
Big Clive posted an update today saying they were in touch, she's ok, and just lying low for the time being.
Jesus Christ, I know moving your life is not that simple, but she and her gf need to run from that hell hole.
Her GF literally can't get out of the country
That guy on the rented jet ski managed it.
Wasn't he escaping North Korea?
I don't think so. I think it was China and he went across the Yellow Sea to South Korea.
Can people in N Korea even rent a jet ski? I can't imagine that's a thing.
Yeah, that's a fair cop
She actually did partially address that, obviously without going into too many details, saying that she could leave but her girlfriend couldn't, so they're pretty much just going to keep their heads down and play by the rules.
Holy fuck she sounds badass
Oh for real, she is. She's pretty sexy too.
She's a pretty smart gal, but uses her looks to Garner views and get attention which I would imagine is very difficult for female tech enthusiasts in China, which is male dominated.
She also has non traditional sexual gender identities which doesn't endear her to the Chinese authorities. But the real kicker is when she identified a security and privacy issue with an android keyboard.
That hurts the land and the people and not the CCP's feelings, so the CCP doesn't care.
But then how is the CCP supposed to get money for more PR campaigns that magically don't ever show those parts of China?
For those wondering, "Hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" is an actual phrase (伤害中国人民的感情) it started all the way back in the late 50s.
this last part "感情 ganqing" translated as "feelings" or "emotional attachment", it's actually an important part of chinese culture, esp business culture (similar to this is "guanxi" which is someone's network). These are major parts of chinese culture and relationships with others. this phrase is more like "you're hurting our relationship"
This seems similar to Republicans' current crusade to ban books they believe will hurt the "fabric of the country."
If your nation is that weak it isn't worth saving, it should just die and be replaced by something better. Which is just about anything.
It feels shady the way the media uses this overly literal translation of 'hurt the feelings' all the time in order to make the Chinese sound ridiculous. Could make any foreign language speaker sound ridiculous by cherry picking funny but common phrases and translating them literally.
? It's the best way to translate it, some Chinese words don't have good English translations and vice versa
There's a better translation right here in this thread. "Hurting our relationship" is not so literal and so doesn't sound daft in English.
no, that's not the same thing. "our relationship" does not convey the same emotion that is intended in the chinese word.
Knowing the control China demands I am not shocked.
And this is how the Chinese ends up wearing a national uniform.
Adorable that anyone is suggesting this is a bug, not a feature.
From how I understand the situation, that's the quiet thing they don't get to say out loud...
Honestly, I feel the same about both: it's absurd. With France I get the "freedom from religion" spiel from some Frenchman, but it's veiled xenophobia to me. When you ban a kind of clothing but only for one group of people, that's basically the definition. Here, it's just fascism. At least the Chinese people are speaking out.
France doesn't ban religious anything, only in public schools, that's all. Outside education people are free to do what they want. What China is doing is wildly different, China just bans things in general for all sectors of life
Public school? You mean that place that children are mandated to be? Also you forgot government. It was a whole thing. So if you're a Muslim and you want to be a part of the French government, then I hope you don't have any attachment to those head scarves. There are other religions ornamentation, but the head scarves one was the last one I saw. And whether school or a DMV clerk, it's dumb.
Also noticed I used two different labels for France rather than China. I think China is fascist with what they're doing. France is xenophobic with what they're doing.
France is the least Xenophobic country on Earth, what are you even saying?
The French didn't ban for only one group of people, all religions are affected.
It targeted one group of people though.
Either way banning clothes is stupid.
Other groups of people have been affected in the past. The Muslims are just the current latest group affected by it.
They have pretty sound logic for doing it
Any recent examples?
What's the logic?
I'm French and if you believe that they got you good
I've been to France many times and religion isn't banned at all, France is an incredibly diverse country, probably the most in all of Europe
nobody suggested they "ban religion"
Yes you are, that's what you people are all implying and it's completely false
can you explain who "you people" are? are they in the room with us right now?
can you also give the specific quote where "you people" said france bans all religion? you didnt just, y'know, imagine it did you?
We're talking about the schools, specifically
Yeah this is equality vs equity. If your religion has no religious outfits it doesn't impact you if your religion does it does impact you. You can't make a rule that only impacts one minority group and claim that it is fair because it hurts everyone the same way, since it clearly doesn't.
My comments were about the same. As much as I hate religion you have every right to express it. French students should be able to wear religious symbols and garments in schools, the CCP should not be going after this shit, men have a right to sag their pants. I can go on but I think my point is clear, freedom includes the freedom to be offensive or it means nothing.
when women are obligated to cover up, people just accept those governments telling them what to do; have you seen any protests lately about governments in the middle east and asia telling women to cover up?
You serious? The hijab protests in Iran have been huge news for a while, not sure how you missed it:
https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2023/03/13/1157657246/iran-hijab-protest-regime-politics-religion-mahsa-amini
The protests in Iran over the Hijab got overwhelming support on Reddit last year.
Authoritarian Middle East is bad. Authoritarian China is bad.
and this is not a coincidence. Authoritarian states love vaguely operationalized definitions like this because it's basically a blanko check to arrest anyone at any time. And it puts the populace into a fearful, fatalist mindset of "I could be arrested at any time for bogus charges, even if I did nothing wrong."
BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS
? You alright?
They are listing all the printed t-shirts I have. Funny side story, while teaching in Japan, I've taught grannies with printed shirts that said stuff like this and they didnt understand. They thought it was cute and had foreign words. I think they needed to study more before their lessons.
Ohhhhhhhhh
Haha these shirts are actually kinda funny in this context 😂
Idk banning stuff is probably detrimental and a slippery slope but idk. Probably shouldn’t have your countries people running around with vial shit on their clothes (yeah yeah freedom of freedom with extra freedom and no responsibility, but like hitler tho.)
Idk tough topic, knowing China though it’s probably just another power grab for them to take from their people. Cringe af no cap
"Missouri: the show me state" I have seen that shirt quite a few times in Asia. No, I didn't ask any of them about it.
🇹🇼
Nice
Of course you're in a thread like this.
Ayyyy it’s this cunthole!
from here: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58394906
Wang Wusi over here dropping truth bombs.
What more do they want? They already got rid of the Winnie the Pooh costume at Shanghai Disneyland.
i kinda want to build a storefront that only sells things on the ban list.
I'm unable to find the original Chinese, but couldn't "hurt national feelings" just as well be translated as "do emotional damage"? Like walking around London 1997 with a shirt that said "Princess Di deserved to die"? Now while that aint illegal in the UK (as far as I know) it's at least a little less ridiculous to talk about trauma from events that affect a nation rather than this dismissive right-wing language of "hurt national feelings".
(this is not a pro-CCP comment please give me the benefit of the doubt)
"hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" is a phrase commonly used by the ccp that means anything that goes against our narrative. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people?useskin=vector
wow i had no idea thank you for the context
wearing a t-shirt saying an actual valued member of the royal family deserved to die likely would get you arrested in the UK, regardless of the legality of it
No it wouldn't, don't be ridiculous. Yes there was some heavy handed policing around the queen's funeral and the coronation which was pretty disgusting, but no-one is being arrested for just wearing an anti-royal tee shirt. Hell it was 50 years ago when the sex pistols were calling the monarchy a "Fascist regime" and they weren't arrested for that.
some heavy handed policing such as arresting folks preemptively because they were wearing anti-royalist t-shirts
Yes? I said that the policing was over the top at those two times and that it was despicable. Doesnt change the fact that other than those once in a generation events you would not be arrested for it.
Vive la révolution
Is china hoping to become more like north korea?
Gonna be a bunch of nude people, everything upsets these pooh-soft dopes
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A draft law banning speech and dressing "detrimental to the spirit of Chinese people" has sparked debate in China.
The proposed legal changes also forbid "insulting, slandering or otherwise infringing upon the names of local heroes and martyrs" as well as vandalism of their memorial statues.
Would its presence in China also count as hurting national feelings," one user posted on Chinese Twitter-like platform Weibo.
She cited one case that drew headlines in China last year where a kimono-clad woman was detained in the city of Suzhou and accused of "picking quarrels and provoking trouble" because she had worn the Japanese garment.
In March this year, police detained a woman donning a replica of a Japanese military uniform at a night market.
And earlier last month, people who wore rainbow print clothing were denied entry to a concert by Taiwanese singer Chang Hui-mei in Beijing.
The original article contains 520 words, the summary contains 145 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This creates a funny image in my mind.
Does this implies we are about to see the comeback of the blue and brown clothing of the Mao era or can we expect the return of the imperial style to the rulling class?
ban assless chaps
Mandate assless chaps!
All chaps are by definition assless.
Lock this man up
department of redundancy, etc.
I urge y'all to look up laowhy86 on YouTube and look at his Beijing flood video. Or even the last few videos tbh.
This is awful and wrong and a violation of the human rights of the citizens of that country. Thankfully, we don't let the government decide what people are allowed to wear here in the good ol US of A...doesnt matter how many conservatives' feelings are hurt. Small government and all that...
It's always strange to see a member of the most incarcerated population on the planet wax lyrical about how free they are.
Not to defend China here at all.
Guess you didn't catch the sarcasm dripping off that entire statement? I wasn't even talking about our incarceration problem, I was referencing all the anti-trans and anti-drag legislation the conservative states have been passing. Literally, the "small government" idiots legislating what clothes people can wear in public...
Guess not, that's probably my bad.
The US is actually #6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
Obviously that's still not great.
That's my bad. Thanks for the correction.
Thanks for having a good attitude to criticism!
drag
hey so does that mean they're gonna stop making Japanese street fashion clothes over there? I use to buy directly from TaoBao and a few years ago lolita was still pretty popular in China.
China said no abaya!
It’s understandable, the way people dress is very important to creating a good environment. As a business owner I strictly enforce a dress code for my employees whether their job is forward facing or not. No clothes with political (BLM/pride) messages, no shorts, women must wear heels and makeup, etc. I asked my employees to also follow the dress code while working from home during the pandemic but I had a gut feeling that many of them were not doing so which is part of why I insisted they come back to the office as soon as COVID disappeared.
I really hope you understand the downvotes. It could change your life.
This seems like a parody account. Look at the username.