Lemmy.world Admin MrKaplan rages over anti-Zionism banning users and defederating instances
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/46148690
Over the past few days, @[email protected]/@[email protected] has banned multiple users, blocked entire comms, and now defederated from Anarchist.Nexus over their anti-Zionist stance.
This extreme overreaction and general power trippin' bastard behavior stems from Lemmy.world's history of pro-Zionist views. And now MrKaplan is seeking out the flimsiest pretext to to enact his own personal vendetta.
Free Palestine, Death to Israel, Death to Zionism.
Lemmy.world is a ZioNazi instance. Avoid it like the plague.
196 replies
death to zionism! death to the iof!
free palestine. from the river to the sea!
Casual call for genocide.
"Death to Nazis"
"Wow you really hate gemans huh?"
Average SJW fascist.
That's sh.itjust.works not the other SJW?
SJW is used as an abbreviation for their instance name.
Yeah we got that fun little community of weirdos...
You're one of the few good ones across the entire place. If they tolerate MWoG's Nazis and enable harassment, they're not a good sever.
Ayo. just left SJW -- it was my first lemmy acct created when i didnt know where to go. now im here. i like your username. thats all
Casual genocide defending.
You're lucky you only got a temp ban for this. Golden Rule 8 means Zionism like yours is an instance ban offense.
I have a feeling you'll earn yourself a permaban soon enough.
Should’ve been permanent, their comment history is nothing but zionism
Thing is, that comment isn't Zionism. It was pretty mild and was basically just a call out of the hypocrisy of responding to evil by doing the exact same evil. It's perfectly reasonable moral stance, and you're free to agree or not - but it's poor form and will ruin Lemmy to ban discussion which is only pointing out the evil of genocide regardless of who does it. You can and should call out Isreal's evil. But I don't think we want to become the evil in the same way that some Jews persecuted by Nazis have now become the same evil. And of course context, and history of comments matter - but your knee jerk reaction was seemingly not about context or history, but simply not liking any discussion that doesn't fit your perspective 100%. And that's poor form - the whole point of Lemmy is for discussion, not a bunch of people blindly agreeing with each other. Now I'll probably get banned for saying all this, sigh.
Yeah, equating calls to end Zionism/Israel with genocide/Antisemitism is absolutely Zionism, and banning isn't nearly enough, but it's all you can do to someone online.
Fuck Israel and any genocide enjoyers that defend it.
@[email protected] I think I speak for all of us when I say this blatant Zionist apologia is getting old, and I think it might be time to enforce golden rule #8 here. I assume reports against comments like these are being dismissed by LW admins.
I reported comments for a person denying the nekba and his comments are still there
How is it possibly Zionist apologia what I posted?
Land back movements are not, and never have been a call to genocide. This is ancient racist hasbara. Do you think arabs have a "natural disposition" or whatever to kill jews or something?
What you are doing is openly promoting Zionist apologia with your attempt at defending a Zionist. It's not surprising Zionists don't recognize their own Zionism as Zionism when it is being talked about as it actually is, a harmful ideology.
He is a very well known zionist. Many of his comments war removed for lying about palestinian claiming they do not want peace
"See the thing is, he didn't say anything about Zionism, he just advocates it, disagrees with anyone who doesn't like it, and then says anytime you want freedom for people it automatically means mass murder because Zionist freedom is mass murder.
But he's not a Zionist, and don't check his history."
I don't tend to check histories. I look at a comment based on the comment. If you want to ban someone for a particular comment that warrants it, I guess that's fine, but it seems wrong to ban someone for a comment that isn't bad, even if you think they mean in some bad way because of other comments
So you don't think if someone has a history of being something, when they make comments defending it isn't suspect?
Death to ideology, not the majority race holding the ideology.
slap
Don't even, you know better.
Zionism is an ideology and an overtly genocidal one, if they wanted to they could just drop it at any time
Fuck off zionazi
Hilarious, i wonder if Dbzero will defederate too since they have the flotilla thing with anarchistnexus
Axis.world becoming fascist instance was going to happen eventually, they will probably call the flotilla instances tankie extremists to try to save face
certain users there already do
That's exactly what they'll do. It's the ultimate libs move, everyone to their left or makes them feel uncomfortable with capitalism is an extremist, apparently.
We've been call Tankie extremists for wanting Harris to support popular polices and illegally send weapons for genocide.
Even within their electorial framework of "change" they still get mad at wanting to end genocide. Fuck em.
I’m calling for everyone to mass instance block world. Keep their blunders contained.
what comms do you recommend for news? i had LW blocked for a while because i found their consistent tolerance for mods promoting moral apathy unacceptable, however, then i found myself out of the loop news relevant to me.
i guess as long as i'm asking, i encourage others to post more to [email protected] and some US focused news community or another. i know Beehaw has one but i can't find it right now
Got a suggestion on which instant to go to? I feel like I'll be permabanned from a .CA because I own a firearm.
That's interesting, I'd like to know what's up with that considering my instance is also Canadian. Also you might be interested in this community [email protected]
I've been happy here. I don't think I've seen anyone complain about the culture.
Huh? Why would you?
I'm not sure what would make you think that. When I see discussions about Canadian firearm rules in [email protected] and elsewhere, it's usually reasonable and level-headed.
The only exception I can think of is if someone is threatening to use the firearm illegally, which then becomes a legal matter for law enforcement.
It will be such a waste to defederate one of the biggest instances because of this idiot...
Edited: clarification.
the 1 idiot is the head admin that can just unilaterally decide what to do. Meanwhile hexbear has huge threads voting on who to defederate, but guess who is known as "aUtHoRiTaRiAn"
Doesn't matter whom hexbears vote to defederate - a lot of other instances defederate them firstly, usually. Secondly, problematic admins can be in any instances, but still people do use that instances because of all the other content placed there.
So lets deny them our content. Push back.
Sounds reasonable but still problematic to migrate.
how is it problematic when a community member consistently causes problems in your community to disengage from them? i must be missing something
The problem is that it is not just a comunity member or a guest, but an admin, who runs all the instance. For example, you have a big old community on that instance and you cannot easily just migrate to another instance just because of you do not like the admin. You either coop and remain there or is forced to make a bold move. You sure can ban a random guy from your comunity without a problem, but not if this guy is an admin of your instance and is a jerk, that can avenge you by messing with the whole community.
P. S. Sure, I could have missed something.
No they don't? Afaik hexbear is the one to defederate? Also anarchist flottilla are the only other ones to hold defederation votes, so my point still stands.
There are 3 main reasons to defederate instance, that I have encountered: political/social views; incompatible instances policies(like protecting spammers/trolls or just 1 admin hates others); technical issues(like connection lags). Unless instance is politically neutral or matches to the hexbear(like ml), it often defederates hexbear or any other instance(ml is an exception here since it is like the main developer's instance and so on).
Ok you're just making the same claim again but with different words?
Like you can find the defederation votes with a quick search: https://hexbear.net/search?q=defederat+vote&type=Posts&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=TopAll&titleOnly=false
I dont wanna list them all because almost every single one has some internet drama involved that I dont want to resurface, but you'll find most of the big instances were defederate by hexbear first.
Okay, then.
Have you been paying attention to Jordanlund? This isn’t a one off thing.
One? This is the first time? How many times over how many nazis has this come up?
For me this is the first time here to see an admin of world does this shit. I don't deny that I could have missed something.
Its mostly been mods before, but always with admin backing. Using size to say 'you cant defederate from us'.
Longer wait bigger problem.
It is an ongoing and well documented issue unfortunately
I instance blocked .world a while ago and the quality of my All feed instantly improved.
something tells me he likely is pro-zionist israeli himself.
Seeing as this all started because one person said the FHF enables Zionism and censors pro-palestine content, which was then censored? Yeah.
Or him ignoring Jordanlund complaints that involved him censoring pro Palestinian news or stories about Israel.
Let's not forget the roles lund and squid played in turning wirld news and political memes into their personal safe spaces and echo chambers.
Idk. Wasn't squid one of the ones Jordan banned immediately as soon as they had a grey reason too?
Squid operated as both super poster, super commentor, super mod, and super confused around Zionism and Israel because they took everything critical of Israel as an antisemitism. They modded many of the major communities and created some of the strongest echo chambers which are still in place (world news and politicalmemes are some of the worst) where a very strict but unspoken orthodoxy is maintained.
Really I just highlight them as yet another power tripping mod., and that as an issue, mod power and the ability to implement a form of censorship, even if implicit, through moderation, is substantial. World news and politicalmemes are basically broken subs because of moderation abuse, and squid was a primary contributed of the abuse.
Lund on the other hand, for all the shit they get, I actually think is very fair in their application of the rules. The only issue I have is that the rules they insist on are outdated and stupid. Not being able to post video content or sites like dropsite or zeteo; it's buffoonish. They treat news media as if it's 2004 and nothing has changed in media since then. I agree with their arguments about reliability and editorial boards, but litterally, so many independent media have editorial boards and standards (they issue retractions et..). And not allowing video content? I mean come on grandpa...
Oh shit I was mixing up that awful mod with other accounts. So glad that one is gone. Although slightly sad can't remember the accounts I was thinking of
Are you sure it's not @[email protected] ?
If they're going to defederate from anarchist.nexus they should defederate from us too. Anarchist.nexus is managed by the same admin team and has the same anti-Zionist policies as this instance.
By the way just created [email protected] for people to post about this more.
I... Might need a new home.
Check out Lemmy.dbzer0.com, anarchist.nexus or quokk.au
if you're into ecology, @[email protected] , i've heard good things about https://slrpnk.net/
I keep forgetting about them, but they're good also.
Also you've only heard?
sure, i was who was saying it some of the times i was hearing the good things
You really should.
More people need to spread out to reddthat, lazysoci.al and scribe.disroot.org.
scribe.disroot.org
i love disroot.org
It's incredible, a suite of pure FOSS services that isn't profit first? A beautiful thing.
Lol you're still federating with .zionism?
I'm new here but I saw this yesterday and I hope it's not all like this?
It's mostly just a few bad instances, lemmy.world, piefed.world, feddit.org I think are the main offenders.
sh.itjust.works
lemmy.ca has been engaging in it too. Although it might be just one of their admins acting alone since they aren't german or part of FHF.
Lemmy.ca is in cahoots with them. Someone messaged the admins a few days ago about it all and they ignored it despite being online and posting.
We're not in cahoots with anyone on this, we're just busy. Please keep in mind we're all donating our time and just because we're browsing and commenting, doesn't mean we have the time / energy to sit down at our PC to dig through mod logs & user history to look into things right away. I personally do most of my lemmy surfing on mobile, not well suited to digging into mod logs.
We'll get back to that message, just give us time. We all have busy lives outside of lemmy too.
Sorry maybe I overreacted, thanks for the work you do.
I’ve been informed it’s been about 5 days since the message was sent, is there some sort of ETA on when a response can be expected?
End of the weekend at the latest.
Replied here - https://lemmy.ca/post/63942911
Thank you for your work, take care !
A few instances (servers) like lemmy.world are run by nazis. The rest are cool.
They are neoliberal DNC types.
Calling everything "Nazi" is lazy and whitewashes a big chuck of zio-aligned mainstream politics that doesn't explicitly identify as righter-than-center-right.
Those who conduct or support the genocide of a 'lesser' people are nazis. Whether they do so out of hatred or greed, the result is the same.
"Nazi" is not a generic synonym for "bad person" or "mass murderer" or "genocider". I know it's common place, but this is the laziness I'm talking about. If we start using every word by its generic connotations or goodness/badness, then these words will no longer serve as a distinctive epistemological tool.
And there is actually a historical irony here, in the context of doing this with Zionism. The soviet union and its bolsheviks actually supported the Zionist entity in its first decade of existence, and actively so. Massacres against villagers and other events from that era didn't cause any deterrence to that support. They even went as far as making Arab communists work as what would effectively be described today as Mossad agents. This alignment only started to shift circa ~1958.
Should we call the soviets from that era "Nazis"?
If we want to principally oppose Zionism, and we should be, then we need to be educated, informed, and diligent against falling for traps like those from the mainstream right-left political theater.
I think that's a good enough approximation. And the current nazis are very much conducting the genocide of the native people. I said nothing about "bad person" or "mass murderer".
I think we should definitely criticise the Soviet support for all sorts of nationalisms in general, and this nationalism in particular. Yes the Russian Empire was cruel towards (most) minorities, but that doesn't mean you need to create political entities that do not have the population or economy to support themselves. Cultural freedom might have been a better aim.
However, the wish for a 'Jewish' state is still understandable, if it recognises an equal Palestinian state. The Israel of the 1950s was still problematic, but a far better country than the Israel of today.
And the mask is off.
Massacres in 2024 are abhorrent and a very big deal. Massacres in 1948 were unfortunate, preferably not mentioned at all.
Population displacement is abhorrent and criminal in 2024. But it was "understandable" in 1948.
Colonialism in 1948 was okay whenever it had good enough red paint!
Many of you are not against Zionism. You are specifically against the Jabotinskyists leading the Zionist entity's scene today. And the opposition itself is not that genuine. It's just a part of the moral posturing arsenal for scoring points in the right-left political theater.
Sorry, how did you go from 'the wish for a Jewish state is understandable' to 'massacres and population displacement are unfortunate / okay'? Colonialism is never okay. But there are levels of evil. The Israel project was misguided from the beginning, but it could have been justified in the immediate aftermath of the holocaust. Now? Not only are Israel's actions openly genocidal, there's no reasonable justification for attacking every country in the region.
I don't know about this. Has there been a change in Israeli leadership? I thought the change in policy was due to US influence.
Don’t worry, you’re on one of the good instances.
Mostly not. I never see any of it, but I have taken to block any and all US politics (but even before that, it was seldom). It is there if you want to find it and feel like having pointless arguments with people.
A zionist scum who is not currently loving in palestinian land and not involved in murder do not deserve to die . The guy advocating for killing all zionists deserve it, the other guy using the terms zionazis and shitlib do not
Aspiring colonizers also deserve it
No, only once they start stealing palestinian land or doing terrorism against them
Yes, anyone willing to even speak in favor zionism at this point is fair game
So you want to kill 21% of americans since the evengelical are zionists?
Fuck yeah, another group of unrepentant fucking devils whose absence from this world would only improve it
You want to create a civil war where not even you would be safe
Everyone will be safer after it's done, that's worth more than my personal comfort
I have no idea what's going on here, should I move my account to another instance? For reference, I mainly use lemmy for fun and not for politics or drama like this. Also, created this account years ago when there were fewer instances.
The answer as always is do what you want. It's the fediverse, you're not tied to one account on one instance. If you're looking for the instances with the least defederation lemmy.zip is a good bet. I'm very happy on lemmy.ml and lemmy.blahaj.zone for wider federation and hexbear.net for the instance culture
Who is "FHF"? If the reasons stated in the modlog are true, these seem justified.
I've had a consistent antizionist stance and never got banned from lemmy.world. You can't advocate murdering zionists who aren't actively involved in murder themselves.
FHF is fediverse hosting federation, the organization that runs Lemmy.world.
Aggressively calling the admins Nazis is a perfectly fine reason to ban someone.
The Nazis being admins is a perfectly fine reason to call them Nazis.
.world politics try to pretend to be neutral on israel, but any mention of accusing them of zionism, or any people linked to israel is a potential violation to them, they will call you anti-semite(insinuate)
Banning a guy literally calling for murder in his username is very much YDM.
Using dumbass terms like 'zionazis and shitlibs' (learn to articulate your point instead of repeating dumbass memes) and posting swastikas is BPR.
look how the zionists keep crawling out the woodwork.
you mean the swastika of david?
See:
Ok more clearly: Putting "kill all zionists" in your username is good and based because it makes zionists like you reveal yourself.
Ok more clearly: I'm not a zionist, you are an idiot.
Then why come to their defense?
Zionists are using the same methods and rhetoric as the nazi. Shitlib refer to the part of liberals who refuse to critisize it side. Both terms are very valid to use
I know what they mean.
You should also know that those terms are so overused as insults that they effectively don't have a definition other than:
Shitlib/Zionist - adj. 'a person who possibly takes a different position as me, idk I'm too lazy to actually understand them but I want validation from the Internet and these words get me upvotes'
No. They are insults to terrible people justifying the unjustifiable and has very concrete definitions
What they mean and how they are commonly used on social media are two different things.
Someone called me a zionist in this thread. It wasn't based on any kind of reality as I never stated any opinion in any comment here about Israel and my comment history is certainly anti-zionist. They were not saying it because it is definitionally true, because it isn't.
They called me that because they perceived me as being on a different 'side' than them and know that using that term as an insult in a space like this is guaranteed to put them on the right side of the dogpile.
They were not using the term as it is defined, i.e. a supporter of zionism. They were using it as an insult to attack me, i.e. 'hey this person is bad, get them!'.
Let see. Do you believe that the way Israel was created was illegitimate ? Do you agree that Israel alone is the only responsible for Palestinians being occupied for 78 years? Do you agree that Palestinians has the right to armed resistance?
All good questions.
Not that it matters at all for my point but, yes, yes and yes.
The person is an idiot, they have no idea of my opinions. Their label wasn't about my opinions, it was an attempt to provoke a mob response from other low-effort readers.
The murder of genocidal settlers is good
Most zionists are not settlers. To be clear, killing settlers can be justified as defensive, so nobody should be banned for a name like "Kill All Zionist Settlers". But there are like 800k settlers, and hundreds of millions of zionists. You can't ethically kill someone just for having an opinion, even a reprehensible opinion, if they don't even act on it.
This is a lie
Also a lie, also supporting a genocidal ethnostate in any way is acting on it
And the other 2 banned who didn’t say that and only rightfully called the ZioNazis?
> commented from lemmy.world
opinion discarded.
I love how the fediverse instances are like dark souls covenants.
People are anti-discrimination except when it's the discrimination that they like, then it's wholly righteous and those dirty deserve what's coming to them.
Discrimination against people who actively choose to be fucking evil is a good thing, you definitely deserve it
Exactly the level of performative tolerance I'd expect from blahaj.zone members.
No, you misunderstand, it was calling for the murder of The Bad Guys.
Also, if you disagree with me, you love genocide and are A Bad Guy.
Disagreeing with murder means supporting genocide.
Therefore I support murder-free genocide!
Wait...
Killing evil people is good, fucking duh, the only people pretending otherwise are either incurable morons or also evil, if not both
Yeah! Killing The Bad Guys is good, everyone who disagrees is a moron or a Bad Guy in disguise, or both! You get it!
It's actually really easy to be on the right side of this, if you fail to do so people are going to assume some negative things about you and they're entirely correct in doing so
Glad we understand eachother's views. It's very, very easy to be on the right side of an issue when that issue is the mass-murder of people that are "The Bad Guys".
If by "the bad guys" you mean the folks currently committing genocide then yeah, kill them, fucking duh
Bans seem fair and warrented given the history of these users.
Did y'all see the user was “MurderZionists” and was then calling people Zionists?
It’s a valid ban. Next case.
People who need to scream about murdering others, 4chan is that way. Go there.
Israel is committing war crimes and genocide, but you gotta be this tall to ride, y’know. Everybody’s got one.
What a shock that the DNC-defender also supports Zionism. Weird how saying "Murder fascists" gets you (and an entire instance) banned, but not commenting on and even defend fascists murdering doesn't get punished.
Israel is committing war crimes and genocide, but you gotta be a libshit and refuse to want to stop it.
Sez you.
Average shitlib retort to being told they support imperial genocide.
Lol fuck off clown
O noes did someone ring the bell down at the all-nite .ml comrade jerkapalooza? Here they come! So to say.
You're losing and you know it
Oh my. We definitely will uproot the zionism in Lemmy by ... let me check ... getting defederated. Great LARPing. Also BPR.
Lets instead come up with methods that might actually be useful in pushing back zionism on Lemmy. Because for sure this aint it.
What's your plan, just ask the Zionists nicely to quit banning people?
Yes I love answering good faith questions! /s
Dunno, maybe instead cosplaying militancy, instance admins and supporting users could try to build a coalition of instances & communities to pressure lemmy.world to change their stance on zionism but also on their admins power tripping.
So like this but online.
i disagree. the fediverse is a vote with your feet situation from my observations of it the past 10 years. with lemmy.world, we have
but then. i'm just a rural boy from a dead mining town in what the early anarchist philosophers in Russia called a "resource colony," "internal colony," or "sacrifice zone."
There is a difference between asking nicely / rudely and speaking collectively with the ability to present actual consequences, such as defederation of most non lemmy.world instances or full boykott of all lemmy.world communities.
Yeah?
And how exactly do you plan on "pressuring" them? Be specific
How about you first tell me what your plan is? Be specific
A) dodging the question, I don't need to have my own plan to criticize yours, if you actually had a good plan you'd have no reason not to answer plainly, you've got nothing
B) my plan is dedederating, fucking duh
Great minds think alike :)
tbh, I don't think db0 is prepared to take down the datacenter FHF is hosted at. Otherwise we would get 404 errors from
.worldinstances.