I'm generally not supportive of the death penalty but when the evidence is this clear and the murderer is a LEO, given the power of life and death over the rest of us, then he needs to be executed, just like he executed Renee Good.
I prefer effective purgatory. It's a drain, but I'd like knowing he's rotting in a cell forever with no contact outside of a therapist and no possibility of parole. Then he can have a nice long think about his actions, and how he is now simply a drain on society. Let him sit with that, forever.
One side of the death penalty is that innocent people can (and have) been executed. As another poster pointed out, the other side is that people who are initially jailed for life can later be released much earlier than they should be by governments who don't view things like Ross did as a big deal.
This is why I get a bit pissed at opponents to the death penalty.
Yes, I think they make a good case for uncertainty of guilt. If the defendant in any way still protests the evidence or there could be any room for jury bias or any “UNreasonable doubts” over the murder, especially when it was only a single person, yes, I think it’s safer to avoid the Death Penalty.
But in cases where it was overt, repeated, caught on video, clearly intentional, and/or took advantage of a position held to a higher standard, I think yes; certain bad people really should die.
And look at how many evil people wanted him freed; if he was simply given a life sentence, the campaign to release him for “just doing his job” would be perpetually huge.
Meanwhile, the campaign to release Charlie Kirk from prison has gone quiet.
The death penalty is a law enforcement weapon. Unless you think you will personally be able to make the laws to serve your interests, you should oppose the death penalty just from a strategic standpoint. The death penalty will be used to execute enemies of the state when the state is unjust.
Death as harm reduction is often good. Killing soldiers from an invading army is good, killing cops is good. But death is only harm reduction if you don't have better options. A community fighting a state often doesn't, but anything capable of arranging a death penalty likely does.
Death as punishment is kind of dumb. The person will stop existing so they will stop suffering for their crimes, and everybody who has ever done something similar now knows they should fight to the death to resist you.
Death as an ideological suppressant is even dumber. The people that want people who have done wrong freed won't go away if you execute the people who have done wrong. Most Nazi leaders died pretty quick but neo-nazis worshipped them anyway. Martyrdom is a real factor, and the dead can't ruin their own reputation by being embarrassing or changing their minds. In fact people whose heroes are martyred tend to radicalize.
Ross is not the problem here. No amount of punishment for him will change the fact that 90 million people voted for Project 2025 and the US government is becoming fascist. Death is part of the answer, but not for him.
I like how you're seeing the justice system failing here, and then you're arguing to give it more power. If you can't get it to work in the way you want, in what world is giving them the ability to kill people they want to get rid of a good idea?
I don't support death as punishment, but sometimes the only tool someone has to protect others is murder. Right now the system gives people no option to defend themselves from law enforcement officers other than through civil war, so it is just that law enforcement officers are murdered in (community) self-defense.
If there is a succesful revolution, old regime law enforcement prisoners of war are no longer in a position of power supported by the state. Killing them would no longer be clear-cut harm reduction when house arrest and rehabilitation are on the table. At that point, why kill him?
If he's alive you can put him on house arrest and give him some craft tools and let him make stuff that others can use. It wouldn't be forced labor; as every "give people free money and see what they do" experiment has shown, people will just make stuff if you let them.
My mom was pushing this fundraiser on FB. I estranged her over it. Blocked her completely. Sometimes I feel bad about it, but then I remember this fundraiser and how she called the videos of the incident "propaganda."
Mythic truths overriding facts. We need to learn how to spot it, and intervene. If they have too much bloodlust for othering, there are barely few options left to turn them around.
The fact that turtlesareneat’s DNA donor was willing to shill on a nazi platform for a nazi, she‘s far too gone.
So hypothetically how "in trouble" could one get for setting up a go fund me like this and never giving the guy the money? I could use a few bucks even though I'm not internet famous, and I mean I know scamming is bad but this seems like decent target selection...
It depends on the terms of the service - you would want to check carefully to see what your actual funding requirements are, however most sites are extremely lenient and scams are rampant. Delaying until people simply forget is a common and effective strategy. However again, given the highly political nature of events like this, you would run a high risk of a lawsuit and may be investigated for wire fraud if you are not careful about your terms.
I see I have misinterpreted your comment "that they deserve it too" as they too deserve to be shot.
Unfortunately I have seen many comments here on Lemmy from nazis in that style and certain mods simply letting them be in place. And took this to be another one (also, as I commented somewhere yesterday, I had a big hangover)
I apologize for my mistake, I was wrong.
The only right fascists like him deserve is to face the fucking wall.
The courts are owned by the fascist masters he serves. The state shouldn't have the monopoly on violence. It's time the people wake up and got organized to enforce our own authority against this shit.
...which is strange considering how many people risk their lives trying to get here. If America was as bad as it seems, you'd think there would be more illegal immigration in the opposite direction.
...I don't know about the rich people, but our poor people tend to want to stay. There has to be a reason for that, but I couldn't tell you what it is.
Cops have actual "Qualified Immunity", which is bullshit on a federal level. It is basically flawless insurance coverage at taxpayer expense. They cannot be sued personally unless it has been established that the EXACT thing they did has already been ruled on as being "bad".
From a financial perspective it's not really a secret -- big money is backing the far-right and conservative media and political sphere. Systems like GoFundMe and others are ripe targets for grifting of course, but they're also ripe for manipulating public opinion. Do you have an agenda and lots of money? You can easily afford bot services and then split your pile of money up among dozens, hundreds, thousands or more different accounts to give the impression that a cause like this is more popular than it is. Or you can use your social media influence to manipulate people into donating on your behalf. And of course the bonus is that it emboldens and encourages those who actually do believe this shit to speak up and participate, amplifying the message even more.
And aside from all that, there's just a subset of people who are out of touch but who truly believe that danger is imminent and lurking around every corner. They're getting fear based messaging from social media, Fox News, and elsewhere that's got them literally thinking that illegal immigrants are hiding in the bushes ready to murder them the moment they step out of their car. I know people whose world view is so skewed towards fear that they genuinely think it's dangerous to go into the city of 40K population for a doctor's appointment. They think people are getting murdered left and right on every street corner every minute of every day. And no amount of reassurance from a more sane and measured perspective seems to change that.
That's a misleading-denominator fallacy. 8 billion isn't the relevant pool. Most of those people don't live in the US, don't follow this story, don't use GoFundMe, and have no stake in US immigration enforcement.
By your logic, the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge (17 million donors) represented only 0.2% of humanity, so ALS awareness was a nothingburger. Obviously not true.
Donating is a costly and strong signal. For every person who pays, many more quietly agree. 17,000 paying donors typically implies hundreds of thousands of sympathizers, which is a meaningful bloc in a country of 160 million voters.
You might have meant something narrower, like 'loud online fundraising can overstate real support.' That's a fair point worth making. The 8 billion framing isn't.
Oh, that's far too easy, I want people like this to live a very long and miserable life.
Flat broke, ostracized from humanity, abandoned by their family and friends, betrayed by the scam artists who convinced they they would be protected for their illegal and immoral acts, dying old and alone unremarked in a puddle of their own filth after a very long and painful life.
Dead Nazi make martyrs and we do not want martyrs. Heck, the Cheeto-in-Chief nicked his ear to play one, no need to add some gravy seals to the list.
It was a fan, the updates say that GoFundMe was in touch with the murderer, then about it being canceled and then about being in touch with the murderer again.
Hiding from the public after the fbi helped moved his stuff, plus hes also Married to a fillipino wife too, go figure white guy cant find a usa girl has to get a Ignorant overseas bride whos not well versed in the politics/drama of the us/conservatives. i used to followed some tubers, where it was the reverse the asian cant find any chick in the usa who isnt up to his bullshit, he chose a younger british white chick and married her asap.(and yes they are also a magaty too). the asian guys ex was actually wholesome, had her own career and such, but the relationship dint go anywhere, being on YT strained it as such.
He needs to be put in prison.
Best we can do is make him a millionaire.
Ugh, fucking bummer
I'm generally not supportive of the death penalty but when the evidence is this clear and the murderer is a LEO, given the power of life and death over the rest of us, then he needs to be executed, just like he executed Renee Good.
I prefer effective purgatory. It's a drain, but I'd like knowing he's rotting in a cell forever with no contact outside of a therapist and no possibility of parole. Then he can have a nice long think about his actions, and how he is now simply a drain on society. Let him sit with that, forever.
One side of the death penalty is that innocent people can (and have) been executed. As another poster pointed out, the other side is that people who are initially jailed for life can later be released much earlier than they should be by governments who don't view things like Ross did as a big deal.
This is why I get a bit pissed at opponents to the death penalty.
Yes, I think they make a good case for uncertainty of guilt. If the defendant in any way still protests the evidence or there could be any room for jury bias or any “UNreasonable doubts” over the murder, especially when it was only a single person, yes, I think it’s safer to avoid the Death Penalty.
But in cases where it was overt, repeated, caught on video, clearly intentional, and/or took advantage of a position held to a higher standard, I think yes; certain bad people really should die.
And look at how many evil people wanted him freed; if he was simply given a life sentence, the campaign to release him for “just doing his job” would be perpetually huge.
Meanwhile, the campaign to release Charlie Kirk from prison has gone quiet.
The death penalty is a law enforcement weapon. Unless you think you will personally be able to make the laws to serve your interests, you should oppose the death penalty just from a strategic standpoint. The death penalty will be used to execute enemies of the state when the state is unjust.
Death as harm reduction is often good. Killing soldiers from an invading army is good, killing cops is good. But death is only harm reduction if you don't have better options. A community fighting a state often doesn't, but anything capable of arranging a death penalty likely does.
Death as punishment is kind of dumb. The person will stop existing so they will stop suffering for their crimes, and everybody who has ever done something similar now knows they should fight to the death to resist you.
Death as an ideological suppressant is even dumber. The people that want people who have done wrong freed won't go away if you execute the people who have done wrong. Most Nazi leaders died pretty quick but neo-nazis worshipped them anyway. Martyrdom is a real factor, and the dead can't ruin their own reputation by being embarrassing or changing their minds. In fact people whose heroes are martyred tend to radicalize.
Ross is not the problem here. No amount of punishment for him will change the fact that 90 million people voted for Project 2025 and the US government is becoming fascist. Death is part of the answer, but not for him.
I like how you're seeing the justice system failing here, and then you're arguing to give it more power. If you can't get it to work in the way you want, in what world is giving them the ability to kill people they want to get rid of a good idea?
Nothing you do to a pig is ever wrong.
I don't support death as punishment, but sometimes the only tool someone has to protect others is murder. Right now the system gives people no option to defend themselves from law enforcement officers other than through civil war, so it is just that law enforcement officers are murdered in (community) self-defense.
If there is a succesful revolution, old regime law enforcement prisoners of war are no longer in a position of power supported by the state. Killing them would no longer be clear-cut harm reduction when house arrest and rehabilitation are on the table. At that point, why kill him?
If he's alive you can put him on house arrest and give him some craft tools and let him make stuff that others can use. It wouldn't be forced labor; as every "give people free money and see what they do" experiment has shown, people will just make stuff if you let them.
Nah. Gut the pig.
He needs to be put under the prison.
My mom was pushing this fundraiser on FB. I estranged her over it. Blocked her completely. Sometimes I feel bad about it, but then I remember this fundraiser and how she called the videos of the incident "propaganda."
You should have composted her😔
It's so sad what propaganda can do to people. I didn't want to believe Adorno when I read it some time back, thought it was too negative, but now...
Sorry your mom got lost into this screwed mindset... I just stull can't fathom how it happens to people...
Mythic truths overriding facts. We need to learn how to spot it, and intervene. If they have too much bloodlust for othering, there are barely few options left to turn them around.
The fact that turtlesareneat’s DNA donor was willing to shill on a nazi platform for a nazi, she‘s far too gone.
So hypothetically how "in trouble" could one get for setting up a go fund me like this and never giving the guy the money? I could use a few bucks even though I'm not internet famous, and I mean I know scamming is bad but this seems like decent target selection...
It depends on the terms of the service - you would want to check carefully to see what your actual funding requirements are, however most sites are extremely lenient and scams are rampant. Delaying until people simply forget is a common and effective strategy. However again, given the highly political nature of events like this, you would run a high risk of a lawsuit and may be investigated for wire fraud if you are not careful about your terms.
Just make your whole life centered around being conservative and you'll just be pardoned
Thanks for a real answer! I'm half kidding about considering it lol.
Just put it in the fine print and let it check a lawyer. I'm pretty sure you can craft it in a way that is legally safe...
that sounds tempting
If it makes a difference, I just looked at the Renee Good GoFundMe, and it closed at $1,500,000.
It doesn't, she's fucking dead.
Yeah, fair point.
A lot of people are dead, but they weren't white and didn't get a GoFundMe, or even mentioned by the news.
I mean yeah true, but the point is that they deserve it too, not that she didn't.
I think you deserve it mostly
I see I have misinterpreted your comment "that they deserve it too" as they too deserve to be shot.
Unfortunately I have seen many comments here on Lemmy from nazis in that style and certain mods simply letting them be in place. And took this to be another one (also, as I commented somewhere yesterday, I had a big hangover) I apologize for my mistake, I was wrong.
Oh
No worries at all stranger, all good, I've done the same thing.
IIRC, her family closed it after getting in way more money than they ever imagined and suggested that folks donate to other impacted families.
Yep, $1,500,000 out of 50k.
fascist money printer
Goes brrrrrrr
I fucking hate goons.
Trash. Don't even give that Trumpgoon a name. Renee Good was murdered by scum.
He has a name, he has a face, he has a bank account, he has a home address, and he has the right to a jury of his peers.
He is a fascist, an invader, and a murderer. Knowing his name can help in seeking justice.
oh and the person representing him in future cases in court is the same one that dropped out of the michigan governership for the next election.
Can we have both of these things?
I think fascist bigots deserve to be named and for the community to know who they are. Especially if they committed murder.
Yes they are trash, but let's not give them anonymity.
The only right fascists like him deserve is to face the fucking wall.
The courts are owned by the fascist masters he serves. The state shouldn't have the monopoly on violence. It's time the people wake up and got organized to enforce our own authority against this shit.
Domestic terrorist = dropping kids off at school.
Well yes. Education is a massive threat to the GOP.
thats why they had TPUSA, AND SHAPIRO going on campus recruiting them. both if being funded by AIPAC, and or RUSSIA.
his wife is a filipino from phillipines, married green card method.
There's a reason why the rest of the world sneers at 'Murica
...which is strange considering how many people risk their lives trying to get here. If America was as bad as it seems, you'd think there would be more illegal immigration in the opposite direction.
Whaddya call digital nomads visa hopping and dodging US taxes and the domestic taxes of the nations they're in?
...I don't know about the rich people, but our poor people tend to want to stay. There has to be a reason for that, but I couldn't tell you what it is.
Civil lawsuits can take earnings that result when profiting from a wrongful death ... like this guy is doing.
Justice is restored!
It's just that, has it been convicted of any crime?
No. Im not sure there will be a crime charged ... the system is too corrupt. There could be a civil suit.
A civil suit to recover profits from a crime the state does not recognize. From when the nazi storm trooper murdered a lady on camera.
You get why people make fun of liberals, right?
A crime is not needed for a civil suit. A person can be found not guilty of a murder and still lose a civil suit for wrongful death.
Has this nade cops stop murdering people?
Cops have actual "Qualified Immunity", which is bullshit on a federal level. It is basically flawless insurance coverage at taxpayer expense. They cannot be sued personally unless it has been established that the EXACT thing they did has already been ruled on as being "bad".
Im aware. Im also aware that theu still murder the fuck out of us at an alarming rate.
From a financial perspective it's not really a secret -- big money is backing the far-right and conservative media and political sphere. Systems like GoFundMe and others are ripe targets for grifting of course, but they're also ripe for manipulating public opinion. Do you have an agenda and lots of money? You can easily afford bot services and then split your pile of money up among dozens, hundreds, thousands or more different accounts to give the impression that a cause like this is more popular than it is. Or you can use your social media influence to manipulate people into donating on your behalf. And of course the bonus is that it emboldens and encourages those who actually do believe this shit to speak up and participate, amplifying the message even more.
And aside from all that, there's just a subset of people who are out of touch but who truly believe that danger is imminent and lurking around every corner. They're getting fear based messaging from social media, Fox News, and elsewhere that's got them literally thinking that illegal immigrants are hiding in the bushes ready to murder them the moment they step out of their car. I know people whose world view is so skewed towards fear that they genuinely think it's dangerous to go into the city of 40K population for a doctor's appointment. They think people are getting murdered left and right on every street corner every minute of every day. And no amount of reassurance from a more sane and measured perspective seems to change that.
I cant think of any population from 40k that id feel safe around.
I think they assume everyone else has the same job they do.
We don't claim David Londner. He can go fuck himself with $30 worth of jagged scrap metal.
Sincerily, descendants of vikings
Seventeen thousand donors...out of eight billion people.
Remember the real numbers here.
That's a misleading-denominator fallacy. 8 billion isn't the relevant pool. Most of those people don't live in the US, don't follow this story, don't use GoFundMe, and have no stake in US immigration enforcement.
By your logic, the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge (17 million donors) represented only 0.2% of humanity, so ALS awareness was a nothingburger. Obviously not true.
Donating is a costly and strong signal. For every person who pays, many more quietly agree. 17,000 paying donors typically implies hundreds of thousands of sympathizers, which is a meaningful bloc in a country of 160 million voters.
You might have meant something narrower, like 'loud online fundraising can overstate real support.' That's a fair point worth making. The 8 billion framing isn't.
17 thousand is still a lot.... brb setting up a second guillotine
Hope he dies soon
Oh, that's far too easy, I want people like this to live a very long and miserable life.
Flat broke, ostracized from humanity, abandoned by their family and friends, betrayed by the scam artists who convinced they they would be protected for their illegal and immoral acts, dying old and alone unremarked in a puddle of their own filth after a very long and painful life.
Dead Nazi make martyrs and we do not want martyrs. Heck, the Cheeto-in-Chief nicked his ear to play one, no need to add some gravy seals to the list.
Makes sense, large amounts of money and evil deeds generally go hand in hand.
I guarantee nothing good will be done with that money
Yeah, poor Wossy ... ☹️
There are how many millions of unregistered guns in America?
That murdering pig will eventually eat and choke on his own karma.
Hope he blows it all. He deserves to rot in prison.
Is this actually real?
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-ice-officer-jonathan-ross
Reported for libelous content. Renee was not a domestic terrorist as stated in the description.
At this point man I don't think it's going to do anything. GoFundMe will leave it up to avoid disfavor with the current administration imo.
Evil
GoFundMe will leave it up because they will make about $30,000 off of the $750,000 donated. Business is going to business.
Thank you. The writing was so juvenile and 2nd grade that I honestly wasn't sure.
Bummer that we can't trust that the next government will actually prosecute these people.
Absolutely agree, I'm not even sure why GoFundMe is willing to collect money for this dillweed.
It tells you who GoFundMe is.
This seems made by a fan or something, is it possible that its a rug pull?
It was a fan, the updates say that GoFundMe was in touch with the murderer, then about it being canceled and then about being in touch with the murderer again.
:(
Well at least we know one way to bait the pigs into the slaughterhouse. They can't resist a paycheck and handy from a "fan."
What's to stop leftists from starting gofundmes for bootlocking facists and then keeping the money?
The threat of being sued or charged with criminal fraud.
Particularly dangerous in an environment where the courts are in the pocket of fascists.
tamara lich did it to the truckers in canada, she took the money but she was caught though.
What's that guy up to these days?
Hiding from the public after the fbi helped moved his stuff, plus hes also Married to a fillipino wife too, go figure white guy cant find a usa girl has to get a Ignorant overseas bride whos not well versed in the politics/drama of the us/conservatives. i used to followed some tubers, where it was the reverse the asian cant find any chick in the usa who isnt up to his bullshit, he chose a younger british white chick and married her asap.(and yes they are also a magaty too). the asian guys ex was actually wholesome, had her own career and such, but the relationship dint go anywhere, being on YT strained it as such.
Hiding, still, same as he will be until his "daddy" loses power and he's drug out and tried for murder.
I'm jealous. I want to sit at home hiding and ordering food delivery. But I'm not willing to kill people to do it.
This should be a joke, right? Right?.. 🙄
Wish you were him huh
He killed a mother minding her own business.
Did you mean to log into TruthSocial?
No one tried to run him over.
Why can't people be blind or stupid? Both is just too much to be sustainable.
You're a prime example of why humanity is doomed, one of those children "left behind" when we gutted education back in the 80s.
No one tried to drive over him, dumbass.
Pretty sure construction and stuff is way more dangerous of a job