Bodycam: Pregnant woman accused of shoplifting shot by police
Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
This is murder.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/09/01/ohio-police-shooting-pregnant-woman-bodycam-marquez-cnc-vpx.cnnOpen linkView original on lemmy.world1106
Comments525
So some neckbeard republicans are going to come out and say "She should have just complied", but honestly what is the absolute worst scinerio if she WAS shop-lifting? In what world is it not a better option to just get her FUCKING CAR'S license-plate number, track her to her house, then arrest her there when she's clearly cornered? Or just boot her car when it's found again and force her to come to you to get it off?
Because now you've killed a woman and her unborn baby over some God damn groceries.
The headline "Pregnant lady caught shoplifting groceries; arrested" would already be telling of a society that has gone far over the edge.
In this timeline, the edge is so far gone that it's faded into myth.
I thought it was alcohol?
If this is a jurisdiction that says embryos are people then that cop executed a completely innocent person.
Shhh... don't point out their own hypocrisy
That would require logical consistency. I would never accuse a republican of such a thing.
Same exact neck beard republican bitching is bitching about the injustice of arresting the good boys for Jan 6th.
What I want to do is make a satirical video game about complying perfectly with a police officer's requests, and show just how hard it is.
Throw in mixups where the player might be confronted by armed criminals, just to make sure players instill themselves with a sense of self-preservation.
Okay but at that point shoot the tyres??
The argument will be that she was trying to use her car as a deadly weapon because she accelerated into an officer standing in front of the car.
Which falls apart when you watch the cops body cam footage and see that never even happened
Unsurprisingly you have downvotes too.
Or, you could deal with the issue when and where it arises? Seriously, some of the commenters here are trying to rewrite history.
She drove at a police officer dude.
She drove away from a police officer who intentionally stepped out in front of the car.
Also that's some grade a level hypocrisy right there.
She should have complied for sure, but non-compliance shouldn't mean execution by firing squad.
Sorry, I'm just gonna repeat that for the folks in the back...
I pretty sure she drove her car into a wall because she was bleeding to death. I don't think that was really a decision.
Probably thought they were going to kill her anyway, since cops be doing that on the regular.
I'm surprised there isn't an automod bot to filter out cliche comments exactly like this
Is nit that she shop lifted, is that she tried to run over the officer
If she was trying to run him over, she did a really shitty job. The cop put himself in front of the vehicle and she turned her steering wheel the wrong direction and didn't slam the accelerator. I think if anything the cop was trying to be run over, not the other way around.
Its not about "doing a good job" or not. She had the intent. Its all it takes for an officer or even a person to defend themselfs
You're not getting it. He wasn't trying to defend himself, he was intentionally putting himself in a place of danger to justify murder in the name of defense.
Amazing how cops are put in that position. Putting yourself intentionally in a place of danger to do your job. We have to thank every single one of them
How's that boot taste?
She clearly did not have intent. The cop just placed himself in front of the car. If he wasn't there she still would have driven forward. She didn't drive forward because he was there. It wasn't intent to run him over, it was intent to flee. The cop had intent to be in the cars path though.
“Yes, sir, officer sir! How many licks?”
How many items you took aithout paying?
I thought it wasn't about her shoplifting? Make up your mind.
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not about any of that, is it? It's just about whatever you need to excuse a government agent murdering an American citizen without a proper trial by jury.
Do us all a favor and never pretend you respect the United States Constitution ever again.
When did that become a death sentence without a judge and jury?
She clearly didn’t try to run him over though, so what’s it really about?
She does not have to.
You can clearly see her turn the wheel away from the officer, and she doesn't slam on the gas, she just accelerates at a normal speed. Not that that matters to you, you just love jacking off to pigs murdering people and don't want to question for one second how shoplifting and resisting arrest is supposed to justify murder
It's an execution. Someone accused of a crime doesn't get a trial or a chance to defend themselves. Someone with a gun makes a decision to end their life on the spot.
Not to mention, standing in front of a car driven by a POC who has every reason to expect the cops to shoot them anyway. That person is already frightened and likely panicked and not thinking clearly. Putting yourself in front of a car with a panicked driver who is justifiably in fear for their life is incredibly stupid.
Also, what is with cops just repeating the same command over and over again and refusing to otherwise interact with the person. Are they trying to make the situation worse? Why not try and de-escalate the situation. Oh, that's right, they want a reason to shoot people.
Yes, because it lets them use lethal force like the jack booted thugs they want to be.
This "technique" has been demonstrated enough that frankly, I think that any rational person would conclude that in any situation where a cop walks in front of your car, you're better off just gunning it before the cop has a chance to extrajudicially execute you first. If they walk in front of your car, it's clear they're just itching to murder you. The threat has been made, you should fear for your life. It's you or them.
That's not unreasonable. Maybe under Montana common law argument would work.
Who upvotes this crap? This is worse than reddit.
Debate it.
Running from police in a high crime area used to be considered probable cause.
That's changing now because running from police in a high crime area is an eminently reasonable thing to do even if you're innocent.
If the tactic is demonstrably employed as a pretextual justification to kill nonviolent criminal suspects, than it's reasonable to say that statutory law of resisting arrest should be the thing that breaks, not the natural law of self defense.
You want me to debate against someone saying you should floor it any time police walk in front of your car??
So every time a cop steps in front of someone's car they're planning on executing them...
Nah. If a pig wants to kill me, I’m doing my damndest to make sure it comes with me
If you floor it and run into a cop just because they walk in front of your car, you deserve to get shot because the cop would be defending themselves.
If dude’s aiming a gun at my face cause of some groceries?? He deserves what he gets.
Maybe try de-escalating instead of over-escalating. In NO situation should a suspected shoplifting end in a murder.
If she tried to run, guess what? They can literally just track her down and move to arrest when lives aren’t in danger.
He unnecessarily and intentionally put himself in harm’s way, in an intense situation with a terrified suspect. He knew what he was doing.
Fuck off with your tyrant apologia bullshit.
You're a violent moron.
Holy fucking irony.
Oh, oof, owwie
Why do you all care so much if you're upvoted or not?
Yeah it didn’t take long, every thread is filled with this bullshit
That's what happens when your cops aren't trained in de-escalation.
Also keep in mind, businesses usually have insurance against theft.
To anyone saying she tried to run over the officer, please watch the body cam footage. She is turning the wheel as much as possible to steer the vehicle away from the officer. On top of that, she pulled forward very slowly. If you were trying to run someone over, you would not give them every opportunity to avoid being hit by the vehicle.
Stop licking boots
I do not understand why it is so common for police in this country to stand in front of a car and then shoot the driver when the car moves. It's a manufactured danger and really does not seem like a smart idea to use your weapon to put a corpse in control of a heavy machine.
What's not to understand? Their goal is the expression of power, the suspect's escape is completely non optional to them. They are not trained in de-escalation.
So, by placing their body on the line (in the path of the giant metal machine), they are essentially saying "obey me, or you are willing to kill me if you try to escape". So if you try to escape, you are willing to kill them. So if you are willing to kill them, they are free to defend themselves.
It is crazy, but consistent logic.
Remember they aren't there to help, or protect, but to enforce.
They stand in front so that they can shoot the driver.
You can't play chicken with someone and then shoot them if you get scared. You have to either swerve or get hit, that's why it's called chicken.
They don’t care as long as they get to murder someone.
You do understand why. What you said is exactly why. They are manufacturing a danger so that they are legally allowed to use lethal force against anyone for any small crime. All the police do in the USA is escalate, escalate, escalate
Because they can, and bootlickers will make excuses for them
Getting shot over shoplifting is insane.
The usa is fucked beyond saving
American fascists continue to prove their belief that property damage isn't an acceptable response to murder, but murder is an acceptable response to property damage.
Couldn’t have said it any better
The social contract is breaking.
Woman scared for her life because officers immediately pointed guns at her for no reason is proven correct when killed by officers for no reason. Just another day in America. Cops just love pulling their guns and using them for no good reason. The only time a cop should be pointing a gun at someone like this is if their life is in immediate danger from that person.
How would society feel if these weren't cops? If a guy just runs up to your car pointing a pistol at your head you aren't going to be calm and rational. It's bullshit we expect anyone to be.
You can't justify her running from the cops, that was wrong but no where near as wrong as killing her for doing so
I mean, I kinda can. We've all seen too many videos where police officers pull people out of cars in these situations, she was pregnant.... People of color end up dead on the ground outside of that car even if they did nothing wrong, all the time. Even more commonly they get thrown around and beaten. Pregnant woman don't normally want to get thrown around or beaten.
OK, but what's plan B? Running from the police just makes them angrier.
But one has a decent chance of getting away from them...
I want to posit first that this is a satirical answer, and I am not encouraging this in the slightest, just that this might be the "cornered logic" equation that is given to suspects being confronted by police:
Plan B: You whip out a pistol you bought from the gun store, shoot all of the cops that are about to shoot you, and drive off to go live in a different state so it's hard to follow you.
I would hope and predict that most people committing petty crimes like shoplifting or drugs would not want to hurt anyone, much less a cop, but when that is THE ONLY answer you can give that has a strong chance of survival in the face of the articles everyone has seen, it begs the need for a different answer - one in which there is ZERO chance of a cop killing an unarmed person for petty crime, and attempted evasion of arrest for said petty crime.
Uhh no I can 100% justify running from cops. Some of them are totally unhinged with a total lack of accountability.
This incident is exactly why that's justified. Her life was in danger, that cop was clearly itching for a reason to kill her or he wouldn't have stepped in front of the car. She ran because it was probably her best chance of not getting killed
When the police are increasingly known and proven to kill people for next to no reason at all, it's quite difficult to blame a person for being afraid of them when confronted.
Your best chance regardless of race or economic status is to comply so they don't get hot headed, not to mention its the legally correct thing to do
Besides trying to run one of them over, you mean? Kinda leaving out some details here.
You watch the video?... Cars get closer to killing me in a parking lot once a month or more. He easily moved out of the way after murdering her. The car was barely moving.
Bootlicker
Tasty tasty piggy boot rubber, mmmm, taser me daddy law
How should this have been handles instead? If she really really doesn't want to comply, You write down her license place, and you let her go.
That simple.
You have her face on video, you have the license plate, it's trivial to then go visit her at her home and have a talk. Hell, follow her if you have to, but not in a high speed chase. Just keep your distance, let her go where she wants to go until she's done.
Worst case scenario, you just let her go.
This extreme focus on that every petty little thing MUST be stopped, every small time offender MUST comply only ends in this. Suffering.
Instead focus on fixing poverty and you know, making sure that pregnant women have all they need so that they don't need to steal? That is why we banned abortion, no? Because we care about babies?
Oh yeah that's right. We care about unborn fetuses, but born babies can get fucked.
Let this woman have an abortion if she can't afford a baby. Now she doesn't need to shoplift, at least not for the baby
Lift people out of poverty. Push people to be better educated. THOSE are things that will actually lower crime rates but then it means they ml o longer are the common pulp that can stand on
I wonder if the cop will be prosecuted for providing an unlawful abortion.
I mean, could he not just have taken the license plate number then sent agents to go knock on her door later? This is shoplifting, not armed robbery.
As the fetus is now legally a person and did nothing wrong the officer who fired the shots should be arrested for homicide.
So double murder and illegal abortion too.
I bet you could probably trick some pro lifers into pursuing this. There's enough true believers.
If it's not obvious those rules are in place to punish women. Not to protect. They will never ever be applied in a protective way. That's not what they were made for.
Is this where society is heading? Rampant theft resolved with murder to save corporations?
To them, this probably sounds easier than lowering prices, reducing CEO’s millions in pay and propping up stock prices.
The governor of Florida and presidential hopeful said looters will be shot on sight. So no, it's not where we're headed because we've passed that destination and it's normal. Property is firmly above people.
There’s a reason why Militech and Arasaka are the biggest players in the cyberpunk rpg universe. Once corporatocracy reigns supreme and public funding is gone they reap profits off private security, as intended. We’re just now seeing the horizon of “defund the police” becoming “hire a PMC as your ‘police force’”
this may surprise you, but the police started out as PMC union-busting operations
Oh lol I’m totally aware. There was a time in history where striking didn’t mean you’d be fired but instead fired upon. Just sucks to see it now coming back full circle
Reminds me of the news in cyberpunk 2077 telling how "warning shots to the knee" became legal for police
Yes. To get back to normality, we must pass through this extreme, which is the necessary counter to defunding and demonizing the police as opposed to holding only the bad ones responsible for their actions. We'll be in this state until we remove qualified immunity. So it will probably take a while.
that's some nazi ass bullshit right there holy shit
Oh yeah, sure, they increase prices because of "theft." They're honest corporations who would never increase prices for another reason like greed or price gouging.
That's fucking horrible.
First off, I wish they would show the full uncut raw footage. People need to see the reality of getting shot.
Second, he literally just pulls the gun out and says "get out of the car." Like, what the fuck man? Get out of the car or I'm going to shoot you? For stealing from a fucking kroger? One of the biggest businesses in the US?
Dude. This is bullshit. He needs criminal charges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ending_Qualified_Immunity_Act
If you want this to stop, force your representatives to finally vote this into law.
You don't even need to shoot them, just get a couple dozen of ya boys and arm up and open carry.
Black Panthers did it and cops stopped patrolling their neighborhoods, which is what the BP wanted.
Republicans got so fucking scared, Reagan, their fucking NeoLiberal Gawd, passed gun control laws!
Seriously tho, we need more open 2A leftists
Is there a carry focused community here on lemmy?
I had found [email protected] when Lemmy kicked off during the API scandal, but it seems to never have really caught on.
We need some real brave mothsfuckers for that... But it is something I want to see too.. some real push back against the bullies.... I can't understand how it hasn't started yet
As someone who lived in Dallas at the time, shooting back does effect change. It's anecdotal but encounters with police really seemed to be less confrontational following this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers
Are you really that far off the deep end?
Lol. We'd have to vote for new reps. And as soon as we do, the ruling class just spends more money on campaigns to make sure we don't get any power.
Just the fact she has to shoplift probably also means she has very little money or is struggling to get buy on her sallery. She's getting a baby soon and is maybe trying to save up because the US has no proper help to offer. Being shot and murdered by the police for a relatively harmles crime is beyond crazy for a society to accept. The policeman should be arrested for murder and abuse of power and Final put behind bars
OMG, I saw this story on FB, AND every fucking comment was praising the cop! Telling her she deserved it for trying to run away.. things like she would have been a terrible mom anyways.. just some awful things while the run their hard ons for the cops... It was sickening... I am 23 weeks pregnant with my second son right now and watching people praise her death because she stole something is so bizarre and jarring... I'm pregnant... What if this was a misunderstanding and he had bad information.. she didn't steal a thing and scared of cops tried to get away and now she is dead.... Cops are fuckiing scary but not as much as people who want this outcome for stealing some groceries
Edit: some of these comments defending the cop, who put his life in danger on his own so he could have the excuse to kill her, is chilling.... You are the reason I made my comment and the reason why I am getting scared of my community.. because too many of the people in society want to see someone from some group they hate, hurt or dead by police.... Fucking sickening. Shoplifting is not an excuse to use lethal force to stop anyone.. the punishment doesn't fit the crime.. people saying it does, are rabid dogs who wish it was them in the cops shoes, feeling powerful.. and that's even more sickening. She left behind a 6 year old because thd pig couldnt have figured out another way to handle the situation.. he failed a basic IQ test and too many people are like.. "Kay, cool". Idiocracy was and is a fucking a documentary and y'all just want a gladiator type entertainment with your own people
If you see
a pregnant womananyone shoplifting, no the fuck you didn't.That's not how it works.
I just checked out your post history. Holy shit do you need more help than I know how to provide. Tell a psychiatrist the shit you're able to admit online, I dare you.
Nailed it
properly ran companies have insurance and also factor theft into their loss for the year. People need to eat to survive and corporations are literally tearing our world apart.
So again if you see someone shoplifting, especially necessities, no you didn’t.
(Also this is a Kroger, it’s a giant supermarket chain. If you stole full shopping cart everyday it would still affect no one monetarily)
Shoplifting is a victimless crime. Like punching someone in the dark.
Tell me you don’t know how anything works without telling me
You stupid fuck lol
Elon, please.
not very pro life if you ask me
I’m a firm believer of “if you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t”
The good guy with a gun once again saves the day by shooting a pregnant woman.
God bless America.
Is Ohio a pro-life state? If yes, does this mean the cop can be charged for illegally terminating a pregnancy?
No, her crime was trying to run someone over. Seriously?
Even if that were true, and it arguably wasn't true, don't you think that maybe the police escalated the situation to that point?
Possibly, but it doesn't change the fact she behaved poorly, to put it mildly.
People here are making out like it is a cold blooded execution.
Killing someone for "behaving poorly" is a cold-blooded execution.
It is a cold-blooded execution.
He got in front of the car, said get out, then shot her.
Let's be real. You know all of this and are just apologetic because you: love cops, hate shoplifting, hate black people, or any combination of the three.
You're not mature or genuine enough to admit it. And I don't hold you above that behavior.
Why did the cop get in front of her car?
Did you notice she turned the wheel as much as possible to specifically avoid hitting the cop that walked in front of her car and pulled a gun out?
This is way worse than murder. 'Normal' murderers dont swear to protect citizens before killing them.
Yes, but they also have educated and trained police. Here, a candidate must meet the requirements for university, be fit, and psychologically stable before he or she can start a training of three to five years.
Being police is more than just be intimidating and knowing which end of a gun is.the business end.
Actually this would be double murder. Now that fetuses are considered full human beings, remember abortions being murder? This is a double murder.
Eh, then again I'm sure that because this was a police officer, Republicans wont care. We must obey the police!
Her unborn child should have had a gun, then it could have shot the cop first
What I see here is a cop trained to shoot to kill at the slightest chance.
I mean, if I ever visit this country and a policeman interacts with me I will pee my pants. Literally*.
*You know, like what "literally" meant in the old times.
That's horrible. It would be bad for public health to leave corpses rotting in the street. Bodies need to be properly disposed of to avoid breeding dangerous bacteria.
I believe one thing about UK policing is correct. Unless there's reason for officers to be armed, they're not even carrying guns. I realize that's untenable in the US because of the proliferation of handguns but here in Canada, I think it should be policy.
Wouldn't work here, for the simple fact that there aren't more guns than UK citizens in the UK.
WTF? I'm thinking of many different ways that this could be handled instead of killing a woman and her unborn baby. Geez!
No one should be shooting at tires, that isn't as easy as they make it in the movies (in this case yes it would have been). However, you should NEVER point a gun at something you do not intend to kill.
Anything short of two life sentences would be completely unacceptable. Can't wait for that piece of trash to get suspended with pay. Homicidal scum...
Maybe shoot the tire first? JFC.
Yeah assaulting someone using words can really hurt. The police suffered so much pain they had to protect themselves from this dangerous woman
/s if anyone needs it
Not sure if horrible news story, or porn.
And also her vehicle.
Kinda difficult when you're on the bonnet of the car, because the driver is trying to run you over.
you're all over this post like it's your job to paint the victim as the aggressor, hmmmmm......
He got in front of the car on purpose of his own volition then pulled out the gun and shot her.
She was trying to avoid him, which is why she turned her wheel as much as possible to drive around him.
Cowards love guns.
Dave Grossman, a graduate of the school of killology. It's in the title ffs. This is what's being taught to our 'protectors'.
Can't wait for this to blow over in two weeks. People need to start physically fighting against the departments that allow this stuff to happen.
This is run of the mill for Ohio cops. I grew up there, I've seen it all my life. They are a reckless, racist, violent group of thugs with the mentality of the KGB. If you're ever so unfortunate as to find yourself there, and in the presence of one, LEAVE. don't do a fuckin thing that might garner their attention.
They're also fanatical about pulling people over, they'll pull you over for ANYTHING. and if you're not the whitest of white, you're gonna have a real bad time.
just... just don't go to Ohio.
https://imgur.com/gallery/uZGJ2Hu
Is there a /c/jesuschristlemmy yet? This would be a worthy starter post.
Gotchu fam: ![email protected]
What the fuck is wrong with you
I actually think this a decent piece of left-leaning humor, if a bit dark.
It makes light of an awful thing that happened (the shooting) and then links it to another awful thing that's happening (abortion bans in America).
It kind of highlights the absurdity of it all.
It's like jokes about racism. Decent people know that the jokes are mocking racist people and showing the absurdity, while racists just laugh at the racism part because they don't get it.
While the meme is in bad taste by my standards, I guess it's still not in the same league as forcing women to carry babies and then shooting them dead when they're trying to feed them.
Maybe shock value is needed at this point.
I get dark humor, but it actually needs to be funny to work. This is just a low effort, over used meme about something horrible.
It’s still disgusting and in terrible taste
Dark humour is like food, not everybody gets it.
God damn
Far less than whatever is happening in the post.
What the fuck is wrong with your sense of humor?
If you see some store security dork following people to their cars, make sure you trip them or hit them with a shopping cart.
There have reports of people dressed as police officers kidnapping people exactly this way as well.
Is the goal to get shot?
what of the officer? will they pass go? the article doesn't say
https://media.tenor.com/B4s6V6JMseQAAAAd/guess-who-america-guess-who-country-edition.gif
Just, fuck.....
How many times am I going to see this article.
What i cannot understand about USA is that they cover as racism, police problems what it is in every other countries labelled as ethnic conflict. They have an empire and multiple ethnicities that hate each others. One of them happear to be black. And they talk about exceptionalism when they are exactly as every other country.
Unpopular take. This seems like a very grey case without a clear right and wrong based on the actions of the accused shoplifter in driving the car. I think there were some questionable split second decisions on both sides.
People shouldn't die over shoplifting. It's pretty clear this shooting was about not about the supporting, but 2 decisions made during the apprehension. 1. The suspect not surrendering and attempting to drive away. 2. The officer standing in front of the car to block egress making a decision when the car moved forward and making contact with his body.
To folks saying the cop could have stepped out of the way or not been there, Id be curious what department training states an officer should do when apprehending a suspect in a parked vehicle. Did the officer follow training and protocol?
It is murder, and the Biden Boomer DoJ won't do anything about it as always
With all of these women being charged with murder for abortions, are we going to see these police punished for killing an innocent bystander (the baby)?
The mother was not innocent in this. A vehicle is a deadly weapon. She fucked around, and found out. I do feel sorry for the unborn child though. I wish there were a way they could have stopped the car non-violently that didn't violate our freedoms. Vehicle immobilizers that police could use seem a ham-fisted solution -- If she was let go, and running from the police as she clearly intended to do, she could have easily harmed someone or killed someone else. Just because you're ready to jump on the "Poleece bad mkay" train...at least look at this further than just the incident at hand. She was fleeing, and probably panicking. She was a harm to others and stopping her was probably the right call. How else are you supposed to stop someone with a 3000lb death machine in a parking lot full of pedestrians?
Where are the people suggesting what could have been done better here? Because I don't see them. I see stupid platitudes of "oh you could have let her go and arrested her at her house"...come on. She was a danger to the pedestrians in the parking lot there. If she was allowed to just try and race home, how many other people could have been put at risk because of her panic?
It's not police policy to kill fleeing suspects, plenty of jurisdictions even choose not to pursue. So the answer to those questions is that yes, they absolutely could have let her drive away, as some other police forces already do without issue.
Aside from that, even if they decided to pursue, it is not police policy anywhere to use deadly force to stop a fleeing subject unless it becomes an acute danger to the public. A fleeing subject who has yet to break 10 MPH does not fall under that description, not here, not anywhere.
And here's a question, if it was such a deadly situation for this officer, how did he not get injured? He was already safely out of the way of the vehicle by the time any of his bullets had an effect. Because he's not a fucking invalid and can side step a car, which he put himself in front of to begin with, pulling out of a parking spot.
Do you feel safer today because this woman is dead? Does anyone?
Yes, those policies refer to fleeing suspects who pose no danger to the public. Fleeing in a vehicle poses a danger to the public. That's why they pit-maneuver vehicles fleeing on the highway.
Great, they didn't allow her to break 10mph, it means they did their job.
The deadly situation doesn't apply JUST to the officer -- they are meant to protect the public. It's just like computer security, someone good at their job doesn't have anything happen. They stop the problem before it becomes a problem. You're not good at your job because you LET the system get infected first.
Ditto for policing, you don't wait for them to hurt others in order to justify stopping them after - they were already being detained. If you begin driving off with pedestrians around and the police want you out of your vehicle, they have a legitimate reason to stop you using whatever force is necessary.
If she is just running away? Hell no, the force isn't justified here. It's her being in the car that causes the force to be justified. Same with if a person had a gun, or a knife, she has a weapon...the car.
So you plan on volunteering to be hit between a car and a wall at 10mph to show how not-deadly it is? Because I'll concede my point if you do. If you don't want to do it, ask yourself why... it's probably because a 3000lb object traveling at 10mph can be deadly; despite your protests to the contrary.
Nothing that you've stated here can objectively determine that these police officers did anything wrong, your political biases are at play here rather than a good neutral look at reality.
Please return to reddit where right wing trolls are actually not universally hated. They are here.
A pit maneuver isn't an attempt to kill the driver.
There is no evidence she was a danger to anyone in that parking lot. None. Zero. Pulling out of a parking spot does not make you a deadly threat. There's no amount of imagination of what could go wrong that makes it so.
Have the police even used the threat to the public as justification for this shooting? If not, why are you making that argument for them? The only issue I've seen them raise was the danger to the officer who fired the shot.
There's no such thing as objective right and wrong, we're not discussing a measurable experiment here. I'm biased against the unnecessary loss of life. I'm biased against police murdering pregnant women (or anyone, of course). I'm biased against our police being far more violent than any of our contemporaries. If that makes me "politically biased" in your eyes, so be it. I'd much rather be on that end of bias than the other.
I'm biased against the unnecessary loss of life as well, which is why I make decisions that limit the opportunities for it to happen. To place all of the blame on the police here is shortsighted and makes no effort into holding the person accountable for their actions as well.
So in short. She made decisions that led to her own demise. She could have made better ones, and she didn't. Her death, was a result of the choices she made. The police were within the guidelines they are permitted to act upon. I don't see anything they did here that could have been done objectively better. I'd have preferred they taze her, but it looked like the window was up in her vehicle. I would have loved for this whole thing to turn out differently, but it didn't.
I'm just not simply going to place the blame on the police in this situation, as I don't see them as having overstepped any lines.
Police do terrible, horrible shit every damn day. But I'm not going to blindly react to every public interaction with police in a demonizing manner without looking at the objective reality. The reality of the situation here is that she made the wrong decision and ultimately paid for it. I wish it wouldn't happen, but I'm not going to fault the police officers for this one. There are many worse incidences to point out, and claiming that this one was one of the bad ones just dilutes the argument when police truly do something out of line.
What do you suggest be done otherwise that would have objectively stopped this woman? What other manner of detainment was available here? Does your solution put others at risk? How can we move towards implementing solutions for police that doesn't ultimately also put their life at risk when encountering people who would otherwise disregard their own safety?
He could have not jumped in front of the car for starters.
There was no risk to anyone in letting her drive home. Fuck right off with all your deadly weapon bullshit that's already been called out. Take her license plate, let her drive home, and deal with the accusations later. No one gets hurt, problem solved.
Yeah, because that's what we do when someone is criminally resisting, we...let them go! Are you listening to yourself objectively right now?
Oh there's a guy who just robbed a bank and shot 2 tellers? Don't shoot him, just let him go. We'll just put out a warrant for his arrest and pick him up later!
Wut...
There was risk in letting her drive home. That part is clear. She was already willing to attempt running over an officer. Your argument is that the officer shouldn't have stepped in front of the car? Seriously? She was told to get out of the car. Not to leave. The idea behind stepping in front of the car is that most people would have the sense enough NOT to try and run someone over with that car. She didn't. She suffered those consequences.
If a police officer told you to step out of the car and they had someone in front, would you attempt to run him over? I sure as fuck wouldn't. But because he's a police officer and you've already made up your mind about him, you don't mind excusing HIS life, and you'll make all sorts of arguments for hers.
It's pretty clear that this argument isn't in good faith from you. You're not willing to use logic and a baseline of morality on a level playing field across all actors in this event. You've discounted her actions, and aren't willing to even budge on the argument that she shouldn't do what she did.
Life lesson kids: If you don't want to get killed by a police officer...don't attempt to run over them with your car.
She was accused of shoplifting.
Jesus Christ.
But again. It isn't policy to always immediately go after a fleeing person. You are ignoring that she steered away from the officer and he deliberately put himself in front of her. You are ignoring that she went incredibly slowly. The cops, plural, as in other cops who could have gotten in their cars and created a barricade, were also present. There were numerous things they could have done rather than murder her. But I guess it's only the murder victim who did anything wrong and the cops are perfect.
You're joking, right? Right?
Nobody called her a bitch, first off. Second off, I agree that it's stupid that as a citizen, we're expected to keep calm and act rationally in these kinds of situations. It sucks but it is what it is. My wife got arrested for "DUI" but she and I don't drink or do drugs -- she didn't try and run away, she complied with the officer, got taken to jail, bailed out, and we solved it in front of a jury of her peers. That's how this shit works.
Additionally, nobody knows if this woman was innocent or not. Claiming that she IS, or ISN'T is bullshit either way.
If she IS, we should be discussing why our people feel the need to steal in order to survive.
If she ISN'T, we should be discussing how to keep people calmer during these types of police interactions.
The facts here are though, that she evaded police with a vehicle that was a potential harm to others, and the police stopped it.
Good to know that if the police murdered your wife for not exactly following their orders you would still be defending them since I assume you are not a total hypocrite.
My best friend was shot and killed for trying to break into a neighbors lawn trailer. Initially I was mad at the guy (what person wouldn't be?) - but over time, I realized that he had made those decisions on his own, and he suffered the consequences of them.
If my wife had done the same thing and gotten herself killed - I'd do the same thing probably. Probably be mad at police initially, then mad at her for choosing to do something so stupid. But in the end, I wouldn't blame the police unless they did something unreasonable. My wife was having a medical episode at the time, and genuinely probably needed to be taken to the hospital instead of being arrested, but the fact of the matter is she was swerving in and out of traffic so their pulling her over ultimately was a good thing. She could have gotten my son that was riding with her killed.
Liar.
His name is Brett Lee Canada, you're welcome to look it up. It happened in Lake County, FL. I don't know what they do with police records of people who are deceased, but that information is there if you want to confirm my honesty.
Nevermind, I did the work for you: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2010/01/03/shooting-death-prompts-lawsuit-3/
The lawsuit went forward and the gentleman was found to have been within his rights to have shot Brett.
So now you can apologize.
Calling her a bitch would've actually been much kinder than implying she deserved to be murdered
The worst of faith.
No, maybe not, but I'm not sure "she fucked around and found out" is any better of a way to refer to a woman that was just murdered.
So then why was the woman at fault for getting scared and trying to flee? "She fucked around and found out", huh?
No, regardless of if she were guilty of the extremely heinous and dangerous crime of shoplifting (the horror!), what we SHOULD be discussing is why the cop felt the need to draw his gun and point it at the woman for such a small crime (of which he had zero evidence I might add) that could have been handled a million other ways. Drawing a gun on somebody is a direct threat on their life. You may as well yell "obey or die". Under no circumstances should a gun be used so freely. She had every single right to be scared out of her mind and try to escape at that moment.
Even if we go with your opinion of her being a threat to the public, the officers are directly responsible for that and never should have let it get to that point in the first place over a god-damned shoplifting accusation. I mean fucking hell, the victim does not actually start driving forward until the cop is pointing his gun at her and screaming at her to get out of the car. Stop blaming her for the extremely excessive threat (and execution) of a police officer.
This is unacceptable. Ohio won't have exceptions for incest and the health of the mother, but they will have exceptions if the mother allegedly commits a crime and is innocent until proven guilty under our legal system?
Anyone who is pro life and not furious about this is a fucking craven hypocrite.
I'm not "pro-life". Hell, I don't value human life at all for the most part. Most people are fucking idiot trash. But I do believe that if we're passing laws that put women on murder charges for aborting, police should be held to that same standard. If they kill a child due to their enforcement actions, that should be considered killing an innocent bystander and should be held accountable for that. (And let's be fair, the only reason they want to keep people from aborting is because you're not producing another wage-slave for the nation to work to death)
Also, obviously I wish this situation turned out differently. I don't want police everywhere to have short-range vehicle immobilizers, because like anything, police WILL abuse any power put into their possession. But on the same hand, I think to myself that maybe if they did have immobilizers, police chases, people running over others with vehicles, etc would be a much more solvable problem. Many police interactions involving cars become dangerous quickly.
Everyone here on lemmy is so caught up in their own preconceptions that they aren't replying to have a discussion - they're replying to issue their rebuttal because they're caught up in an emotional reaction.
Ideally this whole incident could have gone better -- but I don't know of a solution that would give the police the ability to detain this woman with the actions she was willing to take. Except obviously my idea of short-range vehicle immobilizers. But if you give that ability to the police, others will find it and hack it, abuse it, etc. So I don't think in the long run it would work.
You could maybe equip them with some sort of tire-destroying vehicle immobilizer, something that permanently stuck into the tire - but given how tough tires are, it's not something that could easily be carried around.
The MOST reasonable idea here was that the police shoot her tires out - but I don't know the dynamics between bullets and tires so I'm unsure if that would be dangerous to bystanders or not.
So, she is told to get out, she does not. And she starts the can and try to run over the officer? Why are we surpriced she was shot?
If she was trying to run him over why did she cut the wheel as far as she could to try and get around him?
Because she wasn't trying to run him over.
The racist trolls know that, but they're racist trolls so they say dumb shit to see if idiots and other trolls will believe them.
These are the same people who think Ashley Babbitt shouldn't have been shot for trying to storm the congress building.
Because as we have access to human reasoning combined with data, it can be seen that these events regularly occur throughout the world with far lesser routine brutality and death as the outcome.
The existence of data sets restricted by country are a natural dataset that can shine a light on outliers. When it comes to certain types of brutality, when a country becomes notable, is it unreasonable to ask questions? I would say that it is completely reasonable to do so.
What I would say is unreasonable to do, is to look at the event with a microscope when such macrosropic data exists. Or to express surprise that people wouldn't expect extrajudicial execution of a mother and child. It shines the light back on the asker of the question, "Are they unaware, ignorant, or more-commonly, willfully ignorant.?"
The willfully ignorant are often trying to bend the world to their conception of the world instead of seeing it as it is, because that would require a call to action. We would have to identify a problem and fix it and this type of data is inconvenient, but I don't know you, so I can't be sure of your intentions. I hope you are able to receive this as well as it was intended, and perhaps empathize with people who still feel surprise when executions occur without trial.
Do you want to live in a world where such executions are no longer surprising, but instead a routine occurrence?
I did read what happened. Did you?
Did you watch the video?
A police officer stood in front of a car then shot at the person behind the wheel because she apparently shoplifted.
She shouldn't have stolen from the store, she shouldn't have gotten into her car. The cop shouldn't have stood in front of the car, the cop shouldn't have shot her. An officer should not intentionally put themselves in front of a car THEN declare they fear for their lives.
Stop right there, she was accused of stealing. I've been accused of stealing by a store as well and I did not in fact steal anything. I also don't like dealing with cops but I'm not going to drive away I'm also not her so I can't judge her.
Correct, she ALLEGEDLY stole from a store. Even if she DID steal from the store, THEFT IS NOT A CAPITAL CRIME.
Never mind the fact that the fucking officer stood in front of the car TO STOP A SHOPLIFTER.
Any loss prevention associate from Target stands in front of a car to stop a shoplifter is getting fired because even Target knows that's a dumbass move. How is it that Target trains it's people better AND holds them more accountable than the fucking police?
That's not an excuse to run someone over.
A) She didn't run anyone over. B) Stopping an alleged shoplifter is not a valid reason to put yourself in front of a car. C) If you put yourself in front of a car, you don't get to claim to be afraid for your life. D) Shoplifting is not a capital crime.
I just watched it. You could say her driving forward while the cop was in front was bad, and maybe it was fleeing, but does that deserve a death sentence? They're recording with body cameras, so they have her license plate number. They can identify her and put out a warrant for later easily. Is that not more appropriate? Who cares if she was shoplifting. Does that hurt anyone. Let her live and deal with it later if it needs to be dealt with.
In many countries this is exactly what the police are trained to do: de-escalate the situation even if it means letting the person go at that moment, so that no one is put needlessly in danger.
Every chance there was... except for the other chances that you don't think are appropriate for some reason. You don't deescalate by pointing a gun at someone, yelling at them, or trying to force your way into their vehicle.
You're a bad person.
I love threads like this where I get to read all the insane takes from the armchair cops. You have the benefits of knowing all the after-the-fact details and not needing to make a split-second decision, so you think it's just so simple to take your preferred course of action. No, the police are not bloodthirsty murderers who look for any excuse to kill a civilian, but you paint them that way in your head to justify your hatred of them.
Absolutely bat shit insane take. There is so much video evidence disproving that. Most cops in America are bad people, either directly or indirectly through lack of action. ACAB
Sure, why not take the handful of stories you read every day about bad cops, then extrapolate way outside that range and confidently declare that "most cops in America are bad people", which is 1) subjective, and 2) stated without evidence?
The cops performing their jobs without getting into trouble don't make the news.
Why aren't those cops who don't get into trouble (that doesn't mean they aren't doing bad things, by the way) doing anything about the cops that are? Doesn't that make them complicit?
Those "good" cops stand by and do nothing while watching the bad cops be bad. Even if they aren't going out and hurting people they are part of the problem by enabling that behavior.
ask a random homeless person for cop stories, especially if you live in a rural area.
whoa there with the most part. You probably haven't even met or read about even .001% of the cops here. I am no fan of the type of person who is driven to be a cop, but they usually aren't inherently bad. Some get that way after having to deal with the scum the courts let back out onto the streets, which usually by the way isn't the scums fault they are scum... shotty upbringing because parents are trying to make ends meet does that. His take is certainly leaning heavy blue. But you don’t have to dive in the other direction to counter it. Take the high road.
i didn't say you can't criticize any. Just don't go overboard on claiming you now how most of them are. That kind of over generalization is exactly what the person you responded to had wrong.
Buddy. This was because someone shoplifted.
The way you talk makes it seem like every cop in the field would have had to draw a gun on this woman. That’s laughable.
Or you could not put your body in front of a car as a means to stop it? Maybe don’t intentionally put yourself in harms way, giving you an excuse to murder?
That was foolish, certainly, but it doesn't in any way justify trying to run someone over.
Except she steered as hard to the side as possible and was going super slow. Doesn't really seem like trying to run someone over to me.
Anyways, this is just a bunch of racist trolls.
Attempted murder. Officers stopped her before running him over.
No, the cop managed to murder just fine.
Don’t stand in front of the car, dipshit
It's funny because if a riot was happening and a cop rammed his car into the crowd - as has happened many times - this same person would be saying what you said.
Uh mate read my comment again but slowly this time.
I wasn't equating anything. I was implying original commenter was a hypocrite.
Maybe chill out before you start calling people dense.
Yeah, it reads both ways. You probably have to throw something about hypocrisy in the original comment to clarify it. The people you're intending to read it as hypocrisy are automatically going to jump to equation because they're they're ready for the attacks.
His skirt was too short! He was begging to be run over!
Not even remotely equatable, but go off ig
Make sure to brush your teeth. Those boots gotta be dirty af
Lol you got it comrade.
Her car was well past that officer before his bullet hit her. The only one who attempted murder was the officer, and that was a successful attempt.
The video totally clears the police, as I expected. She thought she had the right to run over a police officer to avoid getting arrested for a very minor crime. She chose to put his life at risk by using her car as a weapon and she paid the price for it. Horrible, horrible decision by her.
Alright time to run out into traffic and start shootin in self defense.
The police have the authority to stop cars, you don't.
So police can run into traffic and start shootin in self defense
legally? no morally? no realsitically? yes
I mean…
Ah, yes. Because killing a pregnant woman over groceries is totally the right move
How do those boots taste?
They didn't kill a pregnant woman over groceries, as the video shows. She was shot while attempting to run over a police officer.
He knew what he was doing. He intentionally put himself in harm’s way and escalated the situation. So fucking what if she ran? They have her tags, they can easily trace her vehicle and find her residence, and take action when it isn’t directly putting lives at risk.
Oh no, she got away with some groceries, big fucking deal. Better than murder.
Fuck that cop, and fuck your pitiful attempt at justifying this.
That is not what this video shows. This video shows a police officer who ran in front of a car and shot a pregnant woman over some groceries.
It's exactly what the video shows. These gymnastics are an embarrassment to people that what police reform, you make is look like idiots.
If self awareness was a disease you'd be the healthiest person alive.
What are you even trying to say?
Obviously something too far beyond your meager comprehension.
Lol. He's saying you're not self-aware.
Need to brush up on that reading comprehension, do we?
Police reform in this case could be as simple as "don't jump in front of a car over a gallon of milk."
An absolutely essential part of police work is to de-escalate situations. If someone is acting erratically and pose a potential danger they're supposed to be trained to calm them down, control the situation, and get it under control with minimal use of force. In America the work of the police is, to be fair, made harder by the fact that firearms are everywhere - situations can escalate very quickly.
However, if what starts as a pregnant lady shoplifting ends with you shooting her dead, chances are you did not do a very good job de-escalating the situation. Rather on the contrary - you escalated it a whole fucking lot.
This has nothing to do with any functional notion of police work. This is just state sponsored terror.
Clearly wasn't trying to run over him, was clearly fleeing.
The car was moving very slowly. The cop had a choice. Get out of the way and arrest her later, or go straight to extra-judicial execution. He made the wrong choice.
He could just not stand in front of the car. Write down the license plate and let her go. Or just let her go. Better than killing someone.
No license plate on the car, the thief came prepared.
That means there's no other way to identify her, even with body cam and store cameras.
She'd be in Mexico by morning.
Then let her go. People steal for a reason
Cop used his body as a lever to play chicken with her and get to shoot.
He could have never stepped there, recorded her plate, and arrested her after.
If she had cornered him with the car at no fault of his own that would be different. But he chose to be in front.
How’s that boot taste?