tbf you can do that on windows too, but there's fewer ways to do it, and fewer ways to fix it, so someone else will have fucked up the same way previously and posted about it online somewhere, and system restore points are enabled by default 😅
There are increasingly many guard rails, like a warning when you do "rm -rf ." in many systems, for example. It's just that they are only guard rails, not walls. You can ignore them.
Linux really doesn't get bragging rights for "install[ing] old applications". Linux ironically has been somewhat better for me than Windows for running older Windows applications thanks to WINE, but when it comes to installing old Linux applications, even when I wasn't on a rolling release distro, it's been a total crapshoot.
If, for example, there's a native Linux game that hasn't been updated in a few years, my experience buying it has generally been hoping the Linux version works, it doesn't, and I'm stuck running it through WINE.
PCSX2 1.6.0, which used wxWidgets, released May 2020, and even five years after that, opening it on Linux shows you a frozen, unusable window that you have to manually kill. (citing PCSX2 because it's a use case of mine as a contributor.) IIIRC, on Windows, you can straight-up go back to versions from like 2010 and still have them work.
The linux way to handle it is with a chroot. Used to do this back in the day to get 32bit libraries on a 64bit distro that didn't include 32bit libraries. chroot is the basis for modern containerization technologies. These days, I usually use it for bleeding edge application builds that don't have a build for my distro, yet. Distrobox makes it pretty simple. With distrobox, you can install the application you need in the OS that supports the application you want, then just map the binary into your OS.
Same concept. Flatpak is based on bubblewrap, which was based off another tool that was based on chroot.
Edit: Looks like Flatpak is working towards adopting a different (newer) feature that allows some containerization features at the user level, without requiring chroot super user level.
The reason this is a problem is that devs think they need to save 10MB of RAM by dynamically linking libc instead of statically compiling it or just including the blob with the game.
Puritans on Linux are a real menace. Every time someone calls an OS install image of 3-4gb "bloated" I want to scream uncontrollably. Not statically linking stuff is part of this cultural issue.
Flatpak might solves these issues in the long run. Of course the same people therefore hate it, because it's "bloated" and "convoluted".
The core principal of GNU from which every other principal is derived is "I shouldn't need an ancient unmaintained printer driver that only works on windows 95 to use my god damned printer. I should have the source code so I can adapt it to work with my smart toaster"
If an app is open source then I've almost never encountered a situation where I can't build a working version. Its happened to me once that I remember. A synthesia clone called linthesia. Would not compile for love nor money and the provided binary was built for ubuntu 12 or something.
Linux was probably ready for the 64-bit appocalypse even before Apple for this exact reason. Anything open source will just run, on anything, because some hobbiest has wanted to use it on their favourite platform at some point. And if not, you'd be surprised how not hard it is to checkout the sourcecode from github and make your own port. Difficult, but far from impossible.
Steam games do not distribute source code, which means they break, and when they break the community can't fix them. They can't statically link glibc because that would put them in violation of the GPL (as far as I'm aware anyway). They are fundamentally second class citizens on linux because they refuse to embrace its culture. FOSS apps basically never die while there's someone to maintain them.
Its like when American companies come to Europe and realise the workers have rights and then get a reputation as scuzzballs for trying to rules lawyer those rights.
This shit is the exact reason Linux doesn't just have ridiculously bad backwards compatibility but has also alienated literally everyone who isn't a developer, and why the most stable ABI on Linux is god damn Win32 through Wine. Hell, for the same reason fundamentally important things like accessibility tools keep breaking, something where the only correct answer to is this blogpost. FOSS is awesome and all, but not if it demands from you to become a developer and continuesly invest hundreds of hours just so things won't break. We should be able to habe both, free software AND good compatibility.
What you describe is in no way a strength, it's Linux' core problem. Something we have to overcome ASAP.
The Linux ABI stability is tiered, with the syscall interface promising to never change which should be enough for any application that depends on libc. Applications that depend on unstable ABIs are either poorly written (ecosystem problem, not fixable by the kernel team, they're very explicit about what isn't stable) or are inherently unstable and assume some expertise from the user. I'd say the vast majority of programs are just gonna use the kernel through libc and thus should work almost indefinitely.
It isn't a core problem, it's a filter, and a damn good one. Keeps the bad behavior out of Linux. Thats why people keep turning to it for lack of enshittification. Stable ABIs are what lead to corpo-capital interests infecting every single piece of technology and chaining us to their systems via vendor lock-in.
I wish the Windows users who are sick of Windows would stop moving to Linux and trying to change it into Windows. Yes, move to Linux if you want, but use Linux.
This might be the most awful Linuxbro take I've read this year, congratulations. Linux has to lack a stable ABI to keep the capitalists away and make apps constantly require maintenance to filter out bad behaviour? Just wow.
I really hope for way more people to come over so nonsense like this finally stops.
No. Its not about driving away the capitalists. Its about forcing them to bend to the community. Its not "Linux has to lack a stable ABI to keep the capitalists away" its "Linux is not here to baby rich corporations and exempt them from rules that literally nobody including little timmy who's 14 and just submitted his first PHP patch has a problem with". This is developers who are used to living in houses trying to set up shop in an apartment complex and then finding out different rules apply and being colossal babies about it.
The point of the GNU foundation was to destroy the concept of closed source software. Which is a completely justified response to Xerox incorporated telling you your printer is no longer supported and you just have to buy a new one. Capitalists are welcome. Anti right to repair people can fuck right off and if we had the right to repair their software we wouldn't have this problem in the first place because someone else would have already fixed it.
My favorite part about your post is how you intentionally spin it to mean the opposite of what I said.
Linux requires source compilation by design. This ensures that the Linux ecosystem stays open no matter what. The term "ABI" literally stands for Application Binary Interface. Having a stable one is literally the antithesis of a libre/open-source project. You could try for something like reproducible builds but this disallows for distros to make their own builds as-needed with the necessary flags and patches enabled/disabled.
The purpose of this isn't to make apps require maintenance, its to enforce the open-source nature of the project. Stallman was a gross toenail-eating weirdo but he was dead to rights on the principals he held, and it's because of him and thousands of developers like him that you even have an OS to escape from Microsoft onto.
People like you just want Linux to be "Windows without the bullshit" instead of trying to set aside your decades of conditioning in order to learn how to use the tool properly. If someone hands you a hammer, I bet you'd try to spin it on top of a nail to get it to sink into the wood instead of realizing its not a screwdriver.
As far as I know link systemcalls are set up to look in the working directory first
Not so much but that's easily fixed with an export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.
Why would statically compiling it violate the GPL?
Because you've created something that contains compiled GPL code that can't be untangled or swapped out. The licence for the Gnu C Compiler is basically designed so you can't use it to build closed source software. Its a deal with a communist devil. If you want to build a binary that contains GPL code (which is what glibc is) then you have to make everything in that binary licensed under a GPL compatible license. That's what the whole "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches" quote from Steve Balmer was in aid of. And he was correct and this was literally the system operating as intended.
Dynamic linking is some looney tunes ass "see, technically not violating the GPL" shit that corporations use to get around this.
From a technical standpoint, yes. From a legal standpoint:
If you dynamically link against an LGPLed library already present on the user's computer, you need not convey the library's source
Welcome to "what did you think was going to happen if you told for profit corporations that if they want to distribute a library in a bundle they also have to provide the source code but if they just provide it linked against an ancient version that nobody will be using in 5 years and don't even tell you which one they're 100% in compliance"?
Could they? yes. Will they? probably not, that takes too much work.
This is why steam's own linux soldier runtime environment (Which is availible from the same dropdown as proton) had to become a thing.
You know what, that explains how they can exist on linux at all. Because from what I understand, if glibc was GPL and not LGPL, closed source software would basically be impossible to run on the platform. Which… maybe isn't the best outcome when you think about it. As much as I hate the Zoom VDI bridge, I don't want "using windows" to be the alternative.
and yeah, from the source you provided, I can see why they don't statically link. "If you dynamically link against an LGPLed library already present on the user's computer, you need not convey the library's source". So basically if they bundle glibc then they need to provide the glibc source to users on request but if they just distribute a binary linked against the system one then that's their obligations met.
Welcome to "complying with the LGPL for the terminally lazy", I'll be your host "Every early linux port of a steam game!"
My understanding of the linking rules for the GPL is that they're pretty much always broken and I'm not even sure if they're believed to be enforceable? I'm far out of my element there. I personally use MPLv2 when I want my project to be "use as you please and, if you change this code, please give your contributions back to the main project"
You have to provide the source code for the version of the library you're linking somewhere. So basically if you ship a static linked glibc executable, you need to provide the source code for the glibc part that you included. I think the actual ideal way to distribute it would be to not statically link it and instead deliver a shared library bundled with your application.
EDIT: Statically linking libc is also a big pain in general, for exampled you lose dlopen. It's best not to statically link it if possible. All other libraries, go for it.
What, you don't like role-playing software development & distribution as if we were still in the 90s?? 🥺🥺 /j
But srs, most of Linux's biggest technical problems are either caused by cultural legacy or blocked by it.
The distribution model being one of the most pungent examples.
Fortunately we do have a steady influx of new people incl. those who demand shit to god damn work, finally shifting this notion.
For the time being we still have to resort to using the Windows version and Wine for old software though… But I already had the situation where the (unmaintained but working) app also had a Flatpak which was last updated many years ago and it just worked, which made me incredibly happy and hopeful. ❤️
Good thing there's a battle-proven response if people don't like this because it's "not what Linux is supposed to be" or some other nonsense: If you don't like it just fork it yourself. 😚
Fortunately we do have a steady influx of new people incl. those who demand shit to god damn work, finally shifting this notion.
What the hell is going on in this thread? Linux has been being actively developed by people who want "shit to god damn work" forever. What are the concrete examples of things that don't work? Old games? Is that the problem here? These things that were developed for the locked in Windows ecosystem since time immemorial and never ran on Linux and now, through all of the work of the Linux ecosystem, do, by some miracle, run on Linux. It's amazing that these things work at all: they were never intended to!
What the hell is going on in this thread? Linux has been being actively developed by people who want "shit to god damn work" forever.
Yes and no. Yes as in "you can fix it" (if you're a programmer), but no in terms of "everything is set up so binaries will still run in 20 years as-is". Dependency hell, missing library versions, binaries being linked against old glibc versions you can't provide… all of these are known issues, and devs are often being discouraged from compiling tools in a way that makes them work forever (since that makes the app bigger and potentially consume more memory). And better don't tell someone who's blind (and used Linux before) what's quoted above, they'll either laugh at you or get really angry. It's also one of the reasons I'm angry (I'm able to see, but I hate this hypocrisy in the community). Linux on desktop utterly alienated disabled people, simply because stuff like screenreaders keep breaking.
Running 20 year old binaries is not the primary use case and it is very manageable if you actually want to do that. I've been amazed at some completely ancient programs that I've been able to run, but I don't see any reason a 20 year old binary should "just work", that kind of support is a bit silly. Instead maybe we should encourage abandonware to not be abandonware? If you're not going to support your project, and that project is important to people, provide the source. I don't blame the Linux developers for that kind of thing at all.
devs are often being discouraged from compiling tools in a way that makes them work forever (since that makes the app bigger and potentially consume more memory)
This is simply not true. If you want your program to be a core part of a distribution, yes, you must follow that distribution's packaging and linking guidelines: I'm not sure what else a dev would expect. There is no requirement that your program be part of a distribution's core. Dynamic linking isn't some huge burden holding everyone back and I have absolutely no idea why anyone would pretend it is. If you want to static link go for it? There is literally nothing stopping you.
Linux desktop isn't actively working against disabled people, don't be obtuse. There is so much work being done for literally no money by volunteers and they are unable to prioritize accessibility. That's unfortunate but it's not some sort of hypocritical alienation. That also has likely very little to do with the Linux kernel ABI stability like you claimed earlier.
But this idea that "finally we have people that want Linux to work" is infuriating. Do you have any idea how much of an uphill battle it has been to just get WiFi working on Linux? That isn't because the volunteer community is lazy and doesn't want things to work: that's because literally every company is hostile to the open source community to the point of sometimes deliberately changing things just to screw us over. The entitlement in that statement is truly infuriating.
I really think its just not that common. There are ways to do this for the few and not pollute the OS for the many. Steam does it for their use case. If it were a more common of a need, then I would expect distro maintainers to take care of it. The same way they did for 32bit libraries back in the day. When is the last time you had to install a 32bit distro along side your 64bit distro so you could run 32bit applications? Sometimes I need a bleeding edge build of an application. I run a stable distro. So build the application myself or install a quick chroot These days there is distrobox that makes it even easier. There are solutions. Easy from my perspective. That's why I think, if this was such a common need, distro maintainers would provide a simple solution (automatically done for you).
But you can do that: Linux provides a ton of ways to use different versions of the same lib. The distro is there to provide a solid foundation, not be the base for every single thing you want to run. The idea is you get a core usable operating system and then do whatever you want on top of that.
This hasn't been a problem for a decade or two, but I see drive costs inflate immensely, I wonder how it will impact how "bloat" is processed. Not everyone has infinite access to storage. BTRFS and other fs dedup features may be an acceptable work around, but I don't know flatpacks structure enough to know if they can benefit from it.
Linux version of Rocket League still works but you can't connect to the servers. They stopped supporting Linux when Epic bought them in 2019. So going on 7 years and the Linux version still works fine. Just as a counterpoint.
usually the solution is recompiling it, LD_PRELOADing older libraries or using chroot. Since linus never breaks userspace this can actually provide 100% compatibility.
Which reminds me. Hotline Miami has a native Linux build, yet I had to install a few more libs to get it to work. The funniest part is that this was a GOG installer, so it should have had the libs built in. If I downloaded the Windows installer and used it with Wine, I wouldn't have ran into this problem.
Another problem is with some but not all Unity games. I don't remember what the other one was, but HuniePop's Linux build would be skipping frames, and the Windows build would run just as intended.
It's then I learned to stick to Windows versions of games even if they got a Linux version. Besides, I can send these installers to actual Windows devices.
Wine sometimes works. Windows in VM might be possible if you have beefy hardware. With dual boot is probably the best option if you can manage the intricacies.
Docusign is a certificate authority that requires no actual signing. You can literally sign with an "X" and if someone asks "did Sem sign the contract?" they can check their database and say "yep".
That's all Docusign does. It's a middle-man.
GPG keys cut out the middle-man, and if someone asks "did Sem sign this document?" you can literally say "yes, please use my public key to test"
The bureaucratic kind, one that usually involves a government given pfx, adobe acrobat and some text plus timestamp. Okular can do it if you put your mind to it and waste a lot of time but it's really involved.
Or "when something doesn't work you're going to crawl through old forums hoping to find the solution"
Tried Linux again recently. No thanks. It's come a long ways, but that's one thing that hasn't changed.
When that stops being as frequent of a problem, I'll switch without looking back. Fedora KDE Plasma was pretty slick, and some things actually worked better than windows, but I cannot stand having to Google around to fix basic things as frequently as Linux wants from me. Not that Windows is perfect, but I don't know. The problems feel easier to fix and are less... Outright broken?
And now here comes the Linux users telling me I'm wrong like they do every time I say this despite my experiences being very recent lol that's another thing that will never change.
I've had far more problems installing windows over the years than I've had with linux and linux has been the only OS I use at home for quite a while now.
The updates are unwelcome because currently the updates remove desirable functionality while adding unwanted functionality. If they removed the ads and AI, they might actually stop the bleeding.
A serious software company offers separate update channels for feature updates and security updates. But not Microsoft. They don't offer the bread and the shit separately. You have to eat the whole shit sandwich.
i've used linux and i got to say it's gotten way better than it was a few years ago. most of the stuff works and only had to troubleshoot like a few times
Also, troubleshooting in Linux is different than on Windows. Every time I had to fix a problem with my Linux system I walked away smarter than before. I learned a bit more about how my computer works, so in total it was a slightly positive experience for me.
But anytime I had to troubleshoot my Windows computer it was because Microsoft fucked something up. Fixing Windows feels like wasted time to me, because you never know when they will break it again.
no it has a tiny ssd, but every time windows takes about 30 min to 2 hours to start because it's configuring and updating and rebooting before i get to even log in. kubuntu starts in a minute but i have to go through a blindingly white bios menu to start it and then it can't suspend or even shutdown properly...
Yikes, less than 60 GB? I'm betting you are practically out of disk space and/or you don't have enough memory. What's the model laptop?
If you feel really froggy, post the memory configuration too: number of sticks and size.
I realize it's a Linux conversation, but some people need Windows-only tools. Case in point: there is no way I'm updating insulin pump firmware via a compatibility layer
HP elitebook 840 G5, i think it has a 128 GB disk, bought it used a few years ago just for school use. but linux partition has 10 and windows has 30 gigs free, it has 8 GB ram. i gave up with it and ordered a used thinkpad yesterday, I'll put linux on that and HP can be my win laptop if i ever need it for updating firmware on anything. (still waiting for a fixed FW for my buggy ass keychron...)
Yeah, that shouldn't be struggling as you explained. I say this as one who cheated curates these things professionally. I assume the 128 disk is a SSD, because that is the biggest bottleneck right there. Next is to disable as much startup stuff as possible.
If you are anywhere near Cincinnati, I would come buy that laptop off you.
The amount of times that me as a teenager had to call the computer shop after the OS being unusable because I was messing around was insane. They eventually just gave me the pirated copies of everything so I could reinstall stuff on my own. I really don't miss the times of using windows and the constant reinstalls and breakage it had.
Wanna remove the only way to boot into the computer?
That example is particularly on point, since I've done it (removed the boot bits - oops!) for a few of these, and each time I used a Linux Live boot CD to recover.
Even if I needed some other tool to repair things, the Linux Live CD went in first to do some backups.
The funny thing is that the biggest practical benefit to most Linux users is not the access to do these things.
It is the secondary effects of not needing to restrict access in order to preserve lock-in and enshittification. It makes the whole user experience better because it is only doing wider you've asked it to do. For example, I apply updates more quickly on Linux than I ever did on Windows, even though my Linux DEs are way less pushy about it, because the process is an absolute breeze!
Look at each OS option like you were a product development team, and think "who are my stakeholders?"
The commercial products have long lists of what's driving the product features and anti-features. Linux has the developers who want the code to be helpful and stay free, and the users who want it to do what it says on the tin, with the option to audit or modify the system's code. But of course it's still run by humans, so big personalities and bad actors and whatnot do affect things.
And other people get to use my bank account as well. Paying is so much easier, when I'm not even involved with it. \s I don't know much about rooted android, isn't it less secure?
Your post history indicates you're pushing Linux in some (very!) interesting directions, and impatient for it to work. Linux is (usually) free, and free Linux solutions do move at the pace of free.
I get it, it can be frustrating.
It comes across as entitled to be angry at others for enjoying how nice a stock install of Linux Mint can be, while you're fighting to get Steam to recognize controllers on headless Fedora.
Heck, I haven't seen a headless release of Mac or Windows in almost 30 years? I guess I could get my hands on a relatively new headless Windows Server edition meant for automated testing...maybe?
I'm curious if there's a community doing what you're doing on some other OS? It all sounds fascinating, honestly. Any links to resources would be welcome.
Anyway. What you're up to sounds hard and interesting! I hope you will share your solutions with the community!
Linux is a community, and when you're doing something really interesting, there may not be many members of the community doing the same thing, yet.
Lots of people surf the web and check email, and yes, we're having a moment, because many versions of Linux are really nice for surfing the web and checking email, finally.
Oh I get that but those struggles are intentional and self-inflicted. I wanted a puzzle. I got a puzzle. The community can help guide me in directions when I need an assist.
The thing about Linux that sort of makes it a monkeys paw is it is incredibly versatile. It doesn’t have a direct path to a specific goal. It doesn’t get locked down with corporate bullshit some pinhead business major has decided you will love because it makes their line go up. It can be built into literally anything you want it to be.
But with options and versatility comes complexity. So Linux lets you do anything, but you have to know what you are doing. You can and will break things as you learn. And it will piss you off along the way. But that’s also the joy. If it does something I don’t like, it’s because I told it to, and that means I can also tell it not to.
Windows does something you don’t like? Well, have you tried buying majority shares of Microsoft?
Mac does something you don’t like? No, you can’t have that opinion because there’s so many PC fanboys mocking what they do right that actual Mac users dismiss real criticisms of the platform as haterade so there are never enough consequences for Apple to motivate change or even recognition.
You can delay Windows updates up to 30 days at a time, and do that indefinitely. Or just black hole the update server in your hosts file to disable updates entirely.
There are also ways to not download updates until a certain amount of time after their release, and then to give yourself something like two weeks before it auto installs during a period when the computer is not in active use.
I haven't had an update happen unexpectedly since Vista.
And lets be real, do we really want to just let the average chucklefuck run around with insecure shit? There's an element of protecting people from themselves going on here as well.
The point is there shouldn't have to be a work around, reg hack or host file modification. I should be allowed to do with my computer what I want. I agree it should be on by default, but, there should be an easy no/off switch.
I think they should not push updates that constantly break shit and introduce AI into everything, maybe then people would not mind the windows updates.
But where's the fun in that, right? Gotta get people to switch to Linux somehow and I appreciate their effort.
Almost all of the settings are a simple on off switch. Group policy and the settings menu. Both are easily navigatible GUIs with clear descriptions of what the switches do. You only have to go the hosts file route if you want the extreme of completely disabling updates.
I work in sysadmin in a Windows environment. I haven't had to touch the registry (for Windows configuration, we won't talk about dumbass software devs) in over four years, and it was only because I didn't check group policy first.
Please, for the love of all that is worthwhile in this world, don't lecture others on the ease or difficulty of configuring systems if you aren't actually familiar with how to configure those systems.
Linux needs to be a Canadian goose. Those cobra chickens are just fine when you let them do their thing and ignore all the shit left behind cause you’re not sure it’s important to the planet, but the moment you start to mess with it and you don’t know what you’re doing they will fuck you up!
Yes, I use this monitor in hdr mode in both GNOME and KDE. I've been complaining about hdr on linux endlessly but it's gotten good support in the last 6 months or so on both. The new GNOME video player and the mpv flatpak both display hdr videos fine out of the box with no configuration. Firefox displays HDR videos (but not images yet) experimentally on wayland with a config option. With a couple of custom launch options and GE-Proton, I've been playing games in HDR too.
Somehow, I just managed to get 20 year old Mac software running on my linux setup the other day, something impossible even on a modern Mac setup no doubt.
I control when updates happen, I just ran Microsoft Mappoint 2006 on Windows 10 using a VM, in Unity mode so you don't even know it's in a VM. Virtual PC had this same feature 20 years ago. And Windows now ships with Hyper-V on every version, so you don't even need a separate virtualization app.
These are all problems of people accepting defaults.
Spend as much time tinkering with Windows as you do Linux to run Windows apps and it's fine.
Windows update never interferes with my work - it updates when I choose to update.
Apple is the worst, by a long shot, for not letting you use old apps for no good reason.
Welcome to Lemmy, where people aren't willing to even try to get Windows to work for them, but are absolutely convinced they know exactly how it works.
I've had conversations here where I've led with the fact that I've got a decade of experience in IT and sysadmin in a Windows environment, had someone insist I was wrong about some configurable functionality, and they ended up admitting they hadn't touched Windows in a decade.
People running wild with complete ass pull speculation about how stuff like OneDrive functions instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search on their engine of choice.
I had someone insist that the handwriting and typing analysis feature was a full on keylogger capturing all input including passwords across every program on the whole damn OS, then tell me I wasn't researching right because 100 articles with the same copy pasted clickbait headline and instructions for how to turn off the feature but no actual source for the keylogging claim does not make fucking truth. The other commentor kept hiding behind a piss poor excuse of not being willing to spoonfeed me, while spending considerably more effort telling me I was stupid.
I offered to edit every one of my ~4000 comments to sing their praises if they just stopped grandstanding and linked me the goddamn proof. Guess who hasn't stepped up?
I've said across multiple comments at this point that when I get enough free time to putz around with getting 11 set up in a VM in prep to upgrade my desktop that I'm going to make a guide on how to configure all this shit.
I hate that learned helplessness with Windows is being fucking championed as a failing of Windows and reason to switch to Linux, when these same users end up having issues with Linux and being hung out to dry there as well.
I use both Linux and windows, its a matter of preference. I have virtually no issues with Linux on my 13 yo computer, but, windows on my brand new lenovo I have issues with, mostly stability. I also recognize, being in IT, Linux isnt for everyone. GIMP is great, but, its not Photoshop. The extremely extensive rules and functionality in outlook is, to my knowledge, unparalleled. My SO had me install Linux on their machine years ago because windows needed too much maintenance to run smoothly. Linux just works on that machine and I havnt touched that computer since for any issue. Usually, most machines Linux works great. I will probably always use Linux for my personal machine, I prefer it.
But, Debra who cant find her program because the icon moved 2 mm to the left, or anyone who needs to coordinate calendar scheduling, or recieved more than 30 emails a day and needs them organized. Or managing 1000 + computers in a GUI interface to easily apply group policies and restrictions. Windows works great for that.
People are too hard up on one or the other, they have their place. Linux servers are amazing. Also I agree Mac sucks, interoperability and stability is all they have. Its crazy how much they are for what you get.
it's a bit more complicated. Linux runs games with anti-cheats perfectly fine as long as the anti-cheat doesn't require kernel-level access.
Basically, this allows to detect some cheats that would be undetected otherwise. But it also allows anti-cheats for absolutely unrestricted access to any user data. In other words, it's a giant safety vulnerability, that you're forsed to intall, that still doesn't solve the cheating problem.
Not like the devs are actually interested to solve anything anyway, cheaters buy new accounts regularily, stimulating post-release sales.
Marvel Rivals, Team Fortress 2, Halo Infinite, CS2, Back 4 Blood, Payday 2, DotA 2, ARK, SMITE, Xonotic, For Honor, Dead By Daylight... https://areweanticheatyet.com/
There's a clear difference between "can't" and "developers won't fix it".
Feel free to try and convince me otherwise but, games shouldn't be accessing your kernel at all. That's a major security issue. Also part of the reason why Linux has complete separation between kernel and OS
I am not into competitive gaming but I'll be damned if I understand why the the anti-cheat modules are built into the game instead of being an aditional package that is installed and verified through the tournament platform.
I can't stop you from breaking the whole system when you try to configure something and you do it wrong 😅
That's the burden of assuming the operator is a person capable of understanding the consequences of their actions.
looks at the camera
"When will you learn!!! When will you learn that YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!!"
Uncle Ben taught me the hard way, through his nephew, Peter. I was still a kid, but I knew: big power, big responsibility.
Uncle Ben taught me to add 2 cups of water to 1 cup of rice and microwave for 15 minutes.
Uncle Ben taught me how to grow mushrooms
tbf you can do that on windows too, but there's fewer ways to do it, and fewer ways to fix it, so someone else will have fucked up the same way previously and posted about it online somewhere, and system restore points are enabled by default 😅
the hottest thing you can say in 2026 💦
If you’re capable of that you should be capable to use something like Snapper.
that would require the forethought to use it 😅
next time 😅
There are increasingly many guard rails, like a warning when you do "rm -rf ." in many systems, for example. It's just that they are only guard rails, not walls. You can ignore them.
Linux really doesn't get bragging rights for "install[ing] old applications". Linux ironically has been somewhat better for me than Windows for running older Windows applications thanks to WINE, but when it comes to installing old Linux applications, even when I wasn't on a rolling release distro, it's been a total crapshoot.
If, for example, there's a native Linux game that hasn't been updated in a few years, my experience buying it has generally been hoping the Linux version works, it doesn't, and I'm stuck running it through WINE.
PCSX2 1.6.0, which used wxWidgets, released May 2020, and even five years after that, opening it on Linux shows you a frozen, unusable window that you have to manually kill. (citing PCSX2 because it's a use case of mine as a contributor.) IIIRC, on Windows, you can straight-up go back to versions from like 2010 and still have them work.
The linux way to handle it is with a
chroot. Used to do this back in the day to get 32bit libraries on a 64bit distro that didn't include 32bit libraries.chrootis the basis for modern containerization technologies. These days, I usually use it for bleeding edge application builds that don't have a build for my distro, yet. Distrobox makes it pretty simple. With distrobox, you can install the application you need in the OS that supports the application you want, then just map the binary into your OS.See here: https://distrobox.it/useful_tips/#export-to-the-host
Isn’t that functionally what a flatpak is?
Same concept. Flatpak is based on bubblewrap, which was based off another tool that was based on chroot.
Edit: Looks like Flatpak is working towards adopting a different (newer) feature that allows some containerization features at the user level, without requiring chroot super user level.
Just fyi containers use
pivot_rootnotchrootI'm aware. I said, "basis", not "uses".
The reason this is a problem is that devs think they need to save 10MB of RAM by dynamically linking libc instead of statically compiling it or just including the blob with the game.
Puritans on Linux are a real menace. Every time someone calls an OS install image of 3-4gb "bloated" I want to scream uncontrollably. Not statically linking stuff is part of this cultural issue.
Flatpak might solves these issues in the long run. Of course the same people therefore hate it, because it's "bloated" and "convoluted".
The core principal of GNU from which every other principal is derived is "I shouldn't need an ancient unmaintained printer driver that only works on windows 95 to use my god damned printer. I should have the source code so I can adapt it to work with my smart toaster"
If an app is open source then I've almost never encountered a situation where I can't build a working version. Its happened to me once that I remember. A synthesia clone called linthesia. Would not compile for love nor money and the provided binary was built for ubuntu 12 or something.
Linux was probably ready for the 64-bit appocalypse even before Apple for this exact reason. Anything open source will just run, on anything, because some hobbiest has wanted to use it on their favourite platform at some point. And if not, you'd be surprised how not hard it is to checkout the sourcecode from github and make your own port. Difficult, but far from impossible.
Steam games do not distribute source code, which means they break, and when they break the community can't fix them. They can't statically link glibc because that would put them in violation of the GPL (as far as I'm aware anyway). They are fundamentally second class citizens on linux because they refuse to embrace its culture. FOSS apps basically never die while there's someone to maintain them.
Its like when American companies come to Europe and realise the workers have rights and then get a reputation as scuzzballs for trying to rules lawyer those rights.
This shit is the exact reason Linux doesn't just have ridiculously bad backwards compatibility but has also alienated literally everyone who isn't a developer, and why the most stable ABI on Linux is god damn Win32 through Wine. Hell, for the same reason fundamentally important things like accessibility tools keep breaking, something where the only correct answer to is this blogpost. FOSS is awesome and all, but not if it demands from you to become a developer and continuesly invest hundreds of hours just so things won't break. We should be able to habe both, free software AND good compatibility.
What you describe is in no way a strength, it's Linux' core problem. Something we have to overcome ASAP.
The Linux ABI stability is tiered, with the syscall interface promising to never change which should be enough for any application that depends on libc. Applications that depend on unstable ABIs are either poorly written (ecosystem problem, not fixable by the kernel team, they're very explicit about what isn't stable) or are inherently unstable and assume some expertise from the user. I'd say the vast majority of programs are just gonna use the kernel through libc and thus should work almost indefinitely.
It isn't a core problem, it's a filter, and a damn good one. Keeps the bad behavior out of Linux. Thats why people keep turning to it for lack of enshittification. Stable ABIs are what lead to corpo-capital interests infecting every single piece of technology and chaining us to their systems via vendor lock-in.
I wish the Windows users who are sick of Windows would stop moving to Linux and trying to change it into Windows. Yes, move to Linux if you want, but use Linux.
This might be the most awful Linuxbro take I've read this year, congratulations. Linux has to lack a stable ABI to keep the capitalists away and make apps constantly require maintenance to filter out bad behaviour? Just wow.
I really hope for way more people to come over so nonsense like this finally stops.
No. Its not about driving away the capitalists. Its about forcing them to bend to the community. Its not "Linux has to lack a stable ABI to keep the capitalists away" its "Linux is not here to baby rich corporations and exempt them from rules that literally nobody including little timmy who's 14 and just submitted his first PHP patch has a problem with". This is developers who are used to living in houses trying to set up shop in an apartment complex and then finding out different rules apply and being colossal babies about it.
The point of the GNU foundation was to destroy the concept of closed source software. Which is a completely justified response to Xerox incorporated telling you your printer is no longer supported and you just have to buy a new one. Capitalists are welcome. Anti right to repair people can fuck right off and if we had the right to repair their software we wouldn't have this problem in the first place because someone else would have already fixed it.
My favorite part about your post is how you intentionally spin it to mean the opposite of what I said.
Linux requires source compilation by design. This ensures that the Linux ecosystem stays open no matter what. The term "ABI" literally stands for Application Binary Interface. Having a stable one is literally the antithesis of a libre/open-source project. You could try for something like reproducible builds but this disallows for distros to make their own builds as-needed with the necessary flags and patches enabled/disabled.
The purpose of this isn't to make apps require maintenance, its to enforce the open-source nature of the project. Stallman was a gross toenail-eating weirdo but he was dead to rights on the principals he held, and it's because of him and thousands of developers like him that you even have an OS to escape from Microsoft onto.
People like you just want Linux to be "Windows without the bullshit" instead of trying to set aside your decades of conditioning in order to learn how to use the tool properly. If someone hands you a hammer, I bet you'd try to spin it on top of a nail to get it to sink into the wood instead of realizing its not a screwdriver.
Okay so bundle glibc. As far as I know link systemcalls are set up to look in the working directory first
Why would statically compiling it violate the GPL?
Not so much but that's easily fixed with an
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.Because you've created something that contains compiled GPL code that can't be untangled or swapped out. The licence for the Gnu C Compiler is basically designed so you can't use it to build closed source software. Its a deal with a communist devil. If you want to build a binary that contains GPL code (which is what glibc is) then you have to make everything in that binary licensed under a GPL compatible license. That's what the whole "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches" quote from Steve Balmer was in aid of. And he was correct and this was literally the system operating as intended.
Dynamic linking is some looney tunes ass "see, technically not violating the GPL" shit that corporations use to get around this.
Oh, so bundling it and adding that env will work.
From a technical standpoint, yes. From a legal standpoint:
Welcome to "what did you think was going to happen if you told for profit corporations that if they want to distribute a library in a bundle they also have to provide the source code but if they just provide it linked against an ancient version that nobody will be using in 5 years and don't even tell you which one they're 100% in compliance"?
Could they? yes. Will they? probably not, that takes too much work.
This is why steam's own linux soldier runtime environment (Which is availible from the same dropdown as proton) had to become a thing.
It wouldn't; glibc is LGPL not GPL. The person you're replying to was mistaken.
You know what, that explains how they can exist on linux at all. Because from what I understand, if glibc was GPL and not LGPL, closed source software would basically be impossible to run on the platform. Which… maybe isn't the best outcome when you think about it. As much as I hate the Zoom VDI bridge, I don't want "using windows" to be the alternative.
and yeah, from the source you provided, I can see why they don't statically link. "If you dynamically link against an LGPLed library already present on the user's computer, you need not convey the library's source". So basically if they bundle glibc then they need to provide the glibc source to users on request but if they just distribute a binary linked against the system one then that's their obligations met.
Welcome to "complying with the LGPL for the terminally lazy", I'll be your host "Every early linux port of a steam game!"
My understanding of the linking rules for the GPL is that they're pretty much always broken and I'm not even sure if they're believed to be enforceable? I'm far out of my element there. I personally use MPLv2 when I want my project to be "use as you please and, if you change this code, please give your contributions back to the main project"
They missed the first character because they took the L
It should be noted that statically linking against an LGPL library does still come with some constraints. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LGPLStaticVsDynamic
You have to provide the source code for the version of the library you're linking somewhere. So basically if you ship a static linked glibc executable, you need to provide the source code for the glibc part that you included. I think the actual ideal way to distribute it would be to not statically link it and instead deliver a shared library bundled with your application.
EDIT: Statically linking libc is also a big pain in general, for exampled you lose
dlopen. It's best not to statically link it if possible. All other libraries, go for it.glibc is released under the LGPL, not the GPL. It is completely fine to statically link it.
EDIT: But there are some extra things you have to do: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LGPLStaticVsDynamic
What, you don't like role-playing software development & distribution as if we were still in the 90s?? 🥺🥺 /j
But srs, most of Linux's biggest technical problems are either caused by cultural legacy or blocked by it. The distribution model being one of the most pungent examples.
Fortunately we do have a steady influx of new people incl. those who demand shit to god damn work, finally shifting this notion.
For the time being we still have to resort to using the Windows version and Wine for old software though… But I already had the situation where the (unmaintained but working) app also had a Flatpak which was last updated many years ago and it just worked, which made me incredibly happy and hopeful. ❤️
Good thing there's a battle-proven response if people don't like this because it's "not what Linux is supposed to be" or some other nonsense: If you don't like it just fork it yourself. 😚
What the hell is going on in this thread? Linux has been being actively developed by people who want "shit to god damn work" forever. What are the concrete examples of things that don't work? Old games? Is that the problem here? These things that were developed for the locked in Windows ecosystem since time immemorial and never ran on Linux and now, through all of the work of the Linux ecosystem, do, by some miracle, run on Linux. It's amazing that these things work at all: they were never intended to!
Yes and no. Yes as in "you can fix it" (if you're a programmer), but no in terms of "everything is set up so binaries will still run in 20 years as-is". Dependency hell, missing library versions, binaries being linked against old glibc versions you can't provide… all of these are known issues, and devs are often being discouraged from compiling tools in a way that makes them work forever (since that makes the app bigger and potentially consume more memory). And better don't tell someone who's blind (and used Linux before) what's quoted above, they'll either laugh at you or get really angry. It's also one of the reasons I'm angry (I'm able to see, but I hate this hypocrisy in the community). Linux on desktop utterly alienated disabled people, simply because stuff like screenreaders keep breaking.
Running 20 year old binaries is not the primary use case and it is very manageable if you actually want to do that. I've been amazed at some completely ancient programs that I've been able to run, but I don't see any reason a 20 year old binary should "just work", that kind of support is a bit silly. Instead maybe we should encourage abandonware to not be abandonware? If you're not going to support your project, and that project is important to people, provide the source. I don't blame the Linux developers for that kind of thing at all.
This is simply not true. If you want your program to be a core part of a distribution, yes, you must follow that distribution's packaging and linking guidelines: I'm not sure what else a dev would expect. There is no requirement that your program be part of a distribution's core. Dynamic linking isn't some huge burden holding everyone back and I have absolutely no idea why anyone would pretend it is. If you want to static link go for it? There is literally nothing stopping you.
Linux desktop isn't actively working against disabled people, don't be obtuse. There is so much work being done for literally no money by volunteers and they are unable to prioritize accessibility. That's unfortunate but it's not some sort of hypocritical alienation. That also has likely very little to do with the Linux kernel ABI stability like you claimed earlier.
But this idea that "finally we have people that want Linux to work" is infuriating. Do you have any idea how much of an uphill battle it has been to just get WiFi working on Linux? That isn't because the volunteer community is lazy and doesn't want things to work: that's because literally every company is hostile to the open source community to the point of sometimes deliberately changing things just to screw us over. The entitlement in that statement is truly infuriating.
I really think its just not that common. There are ways to do this for the few and not pollute the OS for the many. Steam does it for their use case. If it were a more common of a need, then I would expect distro maintainers to take care of it. The same way they did for 32bit libraries back in the day. When is the last time you had to install a 32bit distro along side your 64bit distro so you could run 32bit applications? Sometimes I need a bleeding edge build of an application. I run a stable distro. So build the application myself or install a quick chroot These days there is distrobox that makes it even easier. There are solutions. Easy from my perspective. That's why I think, if this was such a common need, distro maintainers would provide a simple solution (automatically done for you).
But you can do that: Linux provides a ton of ways to use different versions of the same lib. The distro is there to provide a solid foundation, not be the base for every single thing you want to run. The idea is you get a core usable operating system and then do whatever you want on top of that.
Yeah, ten apps on the machine should be enough for anybody.
This hasn't been a problem for a decade or two, but I see drive costs inflate immensely, I wonder how it will impact how "bloat" is processed. Not everyone has infinite access to storage. BTRFS and other fs dedup features may be an acceptable work around, but I don't know flatpacks structure enough to know if they can benefit from it.
Linux version of Rocket League still works but you can't connect to the servers. They stopped supporting Linux when Epic bought them in 2019. So going on 7 years and the Linux version still works fine. Just as a counterpoint.
Yeah, I found quite a few games that I had to go in and specify it re-download and use Proton because the Linux native build was borked.
In a lot of cases devs will export for Linux but not test it.
usually the solution is recompiling it, LD_PRELOADing older libraries or using chroot. Since linus never breaks userspace this can actually provide 100% compatibility.
Which reminds me. Hotline Miami has a native Linux build, yet I had to install a few more libs to get it to work. The funniest part is that this was a GOG installer, so it should have had the libs built in. If I downloaded the Windows installer and used it with Wine, I wouldn't have ran into this problem.
Another problem is with some but not all Unity games. I don't remember what the other one was, but HuniePop's Linux build would be skipping frames, and the Windows build would run just as intended.
It's then I learned to stick to Windows versions of games even if they got a Linux version. Besides, I can send these installers to actual Windows devices.
"I can't run the application you need"
More like "I will run literally anything besides things you shouldn't run because of privacy concerns... Though you may need 3 hours to install it."
"RAM shortage? What RAM shortage? I smell DDR3 somewhere in the room, use that, I will still run fine"
That app that infringes your rights is the one you need to earn a living.
Ok then use wine or dual boot
It won't stop privacy concerns but at least it makes it more complicated for microslop to collect everything about you
Wine sometimes works. Windows in VM might be possible if you have beefy hardware. With dual boot is probably the best option if you can manage the intricacies.
Wine seems pretty good. Though I need to understand it more deeply before I can comment more on it
Ddr3? Thats way too modern i run linux on ddr1 and sdram machines
"I can't digitally sign a pdf without a phd"
I think digitally signing means different things in different contexts. I made a GnuPG key but idk what I'm doing. But I use docusign all the time.
Docusign is a certificate authority that requires no actual signing. You can literally sign with an "X" and if someone asks "did Sem sign the contract?" they can check their database and say "yep".
That's all Docusign does. It's a middle-man.
GPG keys cut out the middle-man, and if someone asks "did Sem sign this document?" you can literally say "yes, please use my public key to test"
The bureaucratic kind, one that usually involves a government given pfx, adobe acrobat and some text plus timestamp. Okular can do it if you put your mind to it and waste a lot of time but it's really involved.
Or "when something doesn't work you're going to crawl through old forums hoping to find the solution"
Tried Linux again recently. No thanks. It's come a long ways, but that's one thing that hasn't changed.
When that stops being as frequent of a problem, I'll switch without looking back. Fedora KDE Plasma was pretty slick, and some things actually worked better than windows, but I cannot stand having to Google around to fix basic things as frequently as Linux wants from me. Not that Windows is perfect, but I don't know. The problems feel easier to fix and are less... Outright broken?
And now here comes the Linux users telling me I'm wrong like they do every time I say this despite my experiences being very recent lol that's another thing that will never change.
Just installed Fedora today. Can confirm, a Lemmy post and several wikis really helped me out.
I think that other distros are less like that, but experiencing breakage and having to search for solutions is a perennial problem.
I've had far more problems installing windows over the years than I've had with linux and linux has been the only OS I use at home for quite a while now.
Remove le French at once I say!!
What a nice way to say
sudo rm -fr /You can tell it's sudo by the "I say!!" at the end :).
The updates are unwelcome because currently the updates remove desirable functionality while adding unwanted functionality. If they removed the ads and AI, they might actually stop the bleeding.
A serious software company offers separate update channels for feature updates and security updates. But not Microsoft. They don't offer the bread and the shit separately. You have to eat the whole shit sandwich.
A serious software company wouldn't be forcing their paid users to accept AI content mining under threat of lost security updates.
Linux is a lot like a duck with teeth.
and a good firm swirly penis
Just they way the good lord intended, swirly.
i've used linux and i got to say it's gotten way better than it was a few years ago. most of the stuff works and only had to troubleshoot like a few times
Also, troubleshooting in Linux is different than on Windows. Every time I had to fix a problem with my Linux system I walked away smarter than before. I learned a bit more about how my computer works, so in total it was a slightly positive experience for me.
But anytime I had to troubleshoot my Windows computer it was because Microsoft fucked something up. Fixing Windows feels like wasted time to me, because you never know when they will break it again.
"Hi, my name is Gilbert from Microsoft Support volunteer program! Please try the following and report back:
...And let us know if that fixes the issue!"
I'm convinced I would need to do a lot more troubleshooting on windows nowadays. Just turning off all the AI is probably a pain in the ass.
i constantly have to troubleshoot my linux computers, but still less than my windows laptop, which is a pain to even boot up
Is your Windows laptop still running a spinning disk? Putting a SSD in there is a game changer.
no it has a tiny ssd, but every time windows takes about 30 min to 2 hours to start because it's configuring and updating and rebooting before i get to even log in. kubuntu starts in a minute but i have to go through a blindingly white bios menu to start it and then it can't suspend or even shutdown properly...
Yikes, less than 60 GB? I'm betting you are practically out of disk space and/or you don't have enough memory. What's the model laptop?
If you feel really froggy, post the memory configuration too: number of sticks and size.
I realize it's a Linux conversation, but some people need Windows-only tools. Case in point: there is no way I'm updating insulin pump firmware via a compatibility layer
HP elitebook 840 G5, i think it has a 128 GB disk, bought it used a few years ago just for school use. but linux partition has 10 and windows has 30 gigs free, it has 8 GB ram. i gave up with it and ordered a used thinkpad yesterday, I'll put linux on that and HP can be my win laptop if i ever need it for updating firmware on anything. (still waiting for a fixed FW for my buggy ass keychron...)
Yeah, that shouldn't be struggling as you explained. I say this as one who cheated curates these things professionally. I assume the 128 disk is a SSD, because that is the biggest bottleneck right there. Next is to disable as much startup stuff as possible.
If you are anywhere near Cincinnati, I would come buy that laptop off you.
On Linux you can indeed install old apps. You will just need to spend few hours doing so... or use Flatpak I guess.
I use Debian GNU/Linux ftw.
If your old piece of software is not available through Flatpak, you can use DistroBox to run your app inside a container with older Debian/Ubuntu.
The only old software I've installed worked fine but I also compiled it myself. Which was quick because of the comparatively small codebases.
Wanna remove the only way to boot into the computer? Go ahead, you are in control. But sure hope you have a baxkup boot loader somewhere lol
"sudo go kill yourself, you smarmy little shit"
Linux distros: 🫡
Just don’t do that then
Oh Windows did mess with me a gazillion times in 2000s, when I was a poor kid with just one HDD, and tried to dual boot.
The amount of times that me as a teenager had to call the computer shop after the OS being unusable because I was messing around was insane. They eventually just gave me the pirated copies of everything so I could reinstall stuff on my own. I really don't miss the times of using windows and the constant reinstalls and breakage it had.
That example is particularly on point, since I've done it (removed the boot bits - oops!) for a few of these, and each time I used a Linux Live boot CD to recover.
Even if I needed some other tool to repair things, the Linux Live CD went in first to do some backups.
The funny thing is that the biggest practical benefit to most Linux users is not the access to do these things.
It is the secondary effects of not needing to restrict access in order to preserve lock-in and enshittification. It makes the whole user experience better because it is only doing wider you've asked it to do. For example, I apply updates more quickly on Linux than I ever did on Windows, even though my Linux DEs are way less pushy about it, because the process is an absolute breeze!
Look at each OS option like you were a product development team, and think "who are my stakeholders?"
The commercial products have long lists of what's driving the product features and anti-features. Linux has the developers who want the code to be helpful and stay free, and the users who want it to do what it says on the tin, with the option to audit or modify the system's code. But of course it's still run by humans, so big personalities and bad actors and whatnot do affect things.
You can add to the dog "I support a global a global human trafficking and child rape network."
Moreso than the Apple dude?
And the Google dudes too?
They're all the same: billionaires.
Is Tim Apple in the Epstein files? I hadn't seen that he was. Just giving baby a prize for being a baby.
Edit: it's a real question, has anyone seen Tim Cook in there? Jobs wasn't IIRC.
One of the levels this joke works on is that ducks and dogs and fish and birds are all among the best adapter to their own niche.
Some people just need what Microslop, Apple or Google aree peddling, at some moments.
Another way the joke works is because Linux is still the best, for anyone with a choice. Lol.
oh just you watch me delete system files on my rooted android
And now your bank app doesn't work.
it works quite well actually. even got tap to pay!
And other people get to use my bank account as well. Paying is so much easier, when I'm not even involved with it. \s I don't know much about rooted android, isn't it less secure?
skavau is a clown
Obscurething.so not found. You can’t get it either, it’s unmaintained and doesn’t work with anything anymore.
Linux has this problem too. Stop pretending it doesn’t. Everything sucks for different reasons. You are choosing the trades you are willing to make.
Yes. Linux can be frustrating too.
Your post history indicates you're pushing Linux in some (very!) interesting directions, and impatient for it to work. Linux is (usually) free, and free Linux solutions do move at the pace of free.
I get it, it can be frustrating.
It comes across as entitled to be angry at others for enjoying how nice a stock install of Linux Mint can be, while you're fighting to get Steam to recognize controllers on headless Fedora.
Heck, I haven't seen a headless release of Mac or Windows in almost 30 years? I guess I could get my hands on a relatively new headless Windows Server edition meant for automated testing...maybe?
I'm curious if there's a community doing what you're doing on some other OS? It all sounds fascinating, honestly. Any links to resources would be welcome.
Anyway. What you're up to sounds hard and interesting! I hope you will share your solutions with the community!
Linux is a community, and when you're doing something really interesting, there may not be many members of the community doing the same thing, yet.
Lots of people surf the web and check email, and yes, we're having a moment, because many versions of Linux are really nice for surfing the web and checking email, finally.
Oh I get that but those struggles are intentional and self-inflicted. I wanted a puzzle. I got a puzzle. The community can help guide me in directions when I need an assist.
The thing about Linux that sort of makes it a monkeys paw is it is incredibly versatile. It doesn’t have a direct path to a specific goal. It doesn’t get locked down with corporate bullshit some pinhead business major has decided you will love because it makes their line go up. It can be built into literally anything you want it to be.
But with options and versatility comes complexity. So Linux lets you do anything, but you have to know what you are doing. You can and will break things as you learn. And it will piss you off along the way. But that’s also the joy. If it does something I don’t like, it’s because I told it to, and that means I can also tell it not to.
Windows does something you don’t like? Well, have you tried buying majority shares of Microsoft?
Mac does something you don’t like? No, you can’t have that opinion because there’s so many PC fanboys mocking what they do right that actual Mac users dismiss real criticisms of the platform as haterade so there are never enough consequences for Apple to motivate change or even recognition.
You can delay Windows updates up to 30 days at a time, and do that indefinitely. Or just black hole the update server in your hosts file to disable updates entirely.
There are also ways to not download updates until a certain amount of time after their release, and then to give yourself something like two weeks before it auto installs during a period when the computer is not in active use.
I haven't had an update happen unexpectedly since Vista.
And lets be real, do we really want to just let the average chucklefuck run around with insecure shit? There's an element of protecting people from themselves going on here as well.
The point is there shouldn't have to be a work around, reg hack or host file modification. I should be allowed to do with my computer what I want. I agree it should be on by default, but, there should be an easy no/off switch.
I think they should not push updates that constantly break shit and introduce AI into everything, maybe then people would not mind the windows updates.
But where's the fun in that, right? Gotta get people to switch to Linux somehow and I appreciate their effort.
Almost all of the settings are a simple on off switch. Group policy and the settings menu. Both are easily navigatible GUIs with clear descriptions of what the switches do. You only have to go the hosts file route if you want the extreme of completely disabling updates.
I work in sysadmin in a Windows environment. I haven't had to touch the registry (for Windows configuration, we won't talk about dumbass software devs) in over four years, and it was only because I didn't check group policy first.
Please, for the love of all that is worthwhile in this world, don't lecture others on the ease or difficulty of configuring systems if you aren't actually familiar with how to configure those systems.
I would love to try kde3.5 again. The desktop of my childhood. But trinity project takes long to make it happen.
Trinity Desktop is the closest you'll get.
That smile is devious xD
Linux needs to be a Canadian goose. Those cobra chickens are just fine when you let them do their thing and ignore all the shit left behind cause you’re not sure it’s important to the planet, but the moment you start to mess with it and you don’t know what you’re doing they will fuck you up!
"I can't do HDR"
I'm reading this on my hdr monitor on linux
And are you actually using the HDR features? Most can be run fine in SDR mode.
Yes, I use this monitor in hdr mode in both GNOME and KDE. I've been complaining about hdr on linux endlessly but it's gotten good support in the last 6 months or so on both. The new GNOME video player and the mpv flatpak both display hdr videos fine out of the box with no configuration. Firefox displays HDR videos (but not images yet) experimentally on wayland with a config option. With a couple of custom launch options and GE-Proton, I've been playing games in HDR too.
Oh sorry, guess you picked one of the select few distros that are capable of doing it.
Salty winslop user detected
Oops! Wrong.
I've been using Pop! OS. Guess what? That's Linux! Yay!
Yeah, like, Blender devs being: ‘we implemented HDR on Linux. Windows? You can implement it yourself, if you want.’
Source: The real change log of some year or so ago, but I cannot find the link quickly. Here it states the Windows is supported too now.
I mean that's cool but I still can't game in HDR on Linux without changing distros or somehow going through and making it work myself.
Fits the meme pretty well, I think.
cccommand my beloved.The second Cubase is released, I repeat, the SECOND Cubase is released for Linux I'll switch to Linux and rip out the Windows installation of my HDD.
FREEDOM
"Unified Package format" sadge
The green is palpable
Somehow, I just managed to get 20 year old Mac software running on my linux setup the other day, something impossible even on a modern Mac setup no doubt.
Linux is awesome. The upsides of my distro (Mint) are all better than all the downsides of Scumsoft's Micro(penis is)soft.
I have none of these problems on Windows.
I control when updates happen, I just ran Microsoft Mappoint 2006 on Windows 10 using a VM, in Unity mode so you don't even know it's in a VM. Virtual PC had this same feature 20 years ago. And Windows now ships with Hyper-V on every version, so you don't even need a separate virtualization app.
These are all problems of people accepting defaults.
Spend as much time tinkering with Windows as you do Linux to run Windows apps and it's fine.
Windows update never interferes with my work - it updates when I choose to update.
Apple is the worst, by a long shot, for not letting you use old apps for no good reason.
Welcome to Lemmy, where people aren't willing to even try to get Windows to work for them, but are absolutely convinced they know exactly how it works.
I've had conversations here where I've led with the fact that I've got a decade of experience in IT and sysadmin in a Windows environment, had someone insist I was wrong about some configurable functionality, and they ended up admitting they hadn't touched Windows in a decade.
People running wild with complete ass pull speculation about how stuff like OneDrive functions instead of taking 30 seconds to do a search on their engine of choice.
I had someone insist that the handwriting and typing analysis feature was a full on keylogger capturing all input including passwords across every program on the whole damn OS, then tell me I wasn't researching right because 100 articles with the same copy pasted clickbait headline and instructions for how to turn off the feature but no actual source for the keylogging claim does not make fucking truth. The other commentor kept hiding behind a piss poor excuse of not being willing to spoonfeed me, while spending considerably more effort telling me I was stupid.
I offered to edit every one of my ~4000 comments to sing their praises if they just stopped grandstanding and linked me the goddamn proof. Guess who hasn't stepped up?
I've said across multiple comments at this point that when I get enough free time to putz around with getting 11 set up in a VM in prep to upgrade my desktop that I'm going to make a guide on how to configure all this shit.
I hate that learned helplessness with Windows is being fucking championed as a failing of Windows and reason to switch to Linux, when these same users end up having issues with Linux and being hung out to dry there as well.
I use both Linux and windows, its a matter of preference. I have virtually no issues with Linux on my 13 yo computer, but, windows on my brand new lenovo I have issues with, mostly stability. I also recognize, being in IT, Linux isnt for everyone. GIMP is great, but, its not Photoshop. The extremely extensive rules and functionality in outlook is, to my knowledge, unparalleled. My SO had me install Linux on their machine years ago because windows needed too much maintenance to run smoothly. Linux just works on that machine and I havnt touched that computer since for any issue. Usually, most machines Linux works great. I will probably always use Linux for my personal machine, I prefer it.
But, Debra who cant find her program because the icon moved 2 mm to the left, or anyone who needs to coordinate calendar scheduling, or recieved more than 30 emails a day and needs them organized. Or managing 1000 + computers in a GUI interface to easily apply group policies and restrictions. Windows works great for that.
People are too hard up on one or the other, they have their place. Linux servers are amazing. Also I agree Mac sucks, interoperability and stability is all they have. Its crazy how much they are for what you get.
"I can't run multiplayer games that have anti cheat.". A.k.a. games that most of my friends play
it's a bit more complicated. Linux runs games with anti-cheats perfectly fine as long as the anti-cheat doesn't require kernel-level access.
Basically, this allows to detect some cheats that would be undetected otherwise. But it also allows anti-cheats for absolutely unrestricted access to any user data. In other words, it's a giant safety vulnerability, that you're forsed to intall, that still doesn't solve the cheating problem.
Not like the devs are actually interested to solve anything anyway, cheaters buy new accounts regularily, stimulating post-release sales.
Marvel Rivals, Team Fortress 2, Halo Infinite, CS2, Back 4 Blood, Payday 2, DotA 2, ARK, SMITE, Xonotic, For Honor, Dead By Daylight... https://areweanticheatyet.com/
There's a clear difference between "can't" and "developers won't fix it".
In the case of BF 6 and fornite it's "could run, but we actively don't want you to".
Except Linux can run them.
It's the anti-cheat that is deciding to not let the game run.
EDIT: And its not even "games that have anti-cheat", its "games that have anti-cheat that actively block Linux".
Feel free to try and convince me otherwise but, games shouldn't be accessing your kernel at all. That's a major security issue. Also part of the reason why Linux has complete separation between kernel and OS
Ouch.
But it depends on the developer of said multiplayer games. For example, Arc Raiders uses BattleEye for anti-cheat and it runs fine on Linux.
That was keeping me dual booting but marvel rivals and helldivers now work so I made the switch.
I solved this by getting better friends
I play tons of multiplayer games with anti cheat. The ones that don't run are the ones I wouldn't even play on a Windows machine though
I am not into competitive gaming but I'll be damned if I understand why the the anti-cheat modules are built into the game instead of being an aditional package that is installed and verified through the tournament platform.
and I took that personally