I know you are /s but I will respond /srs.
The fact that people in support of trans rights often can't give a satisfying definition of "woman" is certainly not very problematic or even important at all, but it's a big sticking point for conservatives and it would be nice to have a real answer.
I haven't tried this on real people yet, but I think that you can use a simple comparison to show that they also can't simply define identity words. For example, they probably can't come up with a simple definition of "father" that includes/excludes all the right people. Pester them on this point. Is a sperm donor a father? Is a man who adopts children a father? Is any male caretaker a father? Is a father-in-law a father? Is a step-father a father? Is an absent father a father?
If they end up with a very complicated & unintuitive flowchart definition, ask them: when someone says "as a father, this concerns me" or "I'm not a good father", what do they actually mean? Are they referring to your definition? or to a vaguely-defined identity that's really based in feelings and values?
This really easily transitions into talking about gender because then you can ask them to explain what people mean when they say "man up" or "be a man". Nobody says those things to mean "be a penised adult human", it's obviously about feelings and values.
The real strength of the "what is a woman" argument is that theres no answer that puts you ahead. If you draw a line, you get absolutely creamed for being some bigoted transphobe, if you take an open stance now you're against women. If you say you can have your cake and eat it too you're ridiculed for the inconsistency.
Moreso a means of communicating where everything is tongue in cheek and generally accepted as fake. It wasn't perfect, don't want a lot of it back, especially not the parts that eventually incubated fascists, but that's her humor, and i understand it.
She's problematic in oh so many other ways. I'm not suggesting she's a protagonist here lol
The whole "lol it's just a joke" thing has been a key tool used to normalize fascism in the US. It's a blatant tactic used by the right to normalize truly horrifying things.
Look I'm not defending much, but especially not what came after 2006. Shit went south but it wasn't the humor that caused it. /pol/ was a mistake from the start. Gave the fash an unmoderated anonymous hang out. That spread after 2006.
Oh fuck off, just because ypu can't be a fucking bigot openly as easily without being called on it doesnt show a lack of mental flexibility on their part. Fuck off back to 4chan if you can't handle people being called out for being shitty humans.
I think I used to think that. Like, I get the edgy 4chaner-esque thing. There's a bit of selfaware irony in it all that can work....
But for Shoe, after the Kirk thing, when she rushed to play defense, I think the whole mask dropped. Which, kind of makes sense. I don't think you can do 2010 anti-sjw content for 15 years and not ACTUALLY be a bit of a winger. If you haven't grown in that time, and you're still stuck making that same content... that's just who you are.
Look at her contemporaries and people after her. AmazingAtheist/TJ/IntoTheFray was one of the OG anti-feminist/sjw creators. He's still a bit of an edgelord, but even he's grown past that content and matured in thought.
And you can look at her peers in the space who sort of occupy the same niche. People like Vaush. Bit edgy, bit hot-take. But still has pretty consistent lefty values.
For Shoe, her act stopped being an act. The jokes just became what she is. She wasn't being critical anymore of lefty extemists, she was just becoming a winger. And her defense of Kirk proved it.
To be fair, she had plenty videos criticising the right too. She's from the enlightened centrist actually don't give a fuck I'm so quirky lol camp iirc.
I have plenty of conversations with transphobic family members and there seems to be a lot of this misunderstanding going around.
There seems to be this belief that trans people are all biological men trying to impose on women's spaces, whether that's saying that a man can have a period, or saying that a trans woman can compete in women's sports.
It's an interesting Schrödinger's cat type phenonomenon - a trans woman cannot use a woman's toilet, so that means that a trans man (who is indistinguishable from a cis male) SHOULD use women's toilets, which is problematic.
All of these transphobic beliefs seem to erase the existence of trans men, they only take cis men into account. So saying, "A biological male cannot give birth" is, 99% of the time, accurate. But that isn't what saying, "a man can give birth" means exactly, it's a more nuanced statement that supports the existence of trans men. "Boys" can have periods, because trans boys exist.
If it is common / possible for biological men to give birth, I'm not aware of that so I can't comment on it, but I do believe that 9/10 transphobia stems from misunderstanding what you're actually talking about. Otherwise I can't see why people would be continuously so hateful to something that is so harmless to anybody who isn't trans.
I assume based on context that this is a typo and you meant can't.
I recently learned that holy shit trans women despite most likely not having a uterus, start experiencing periods once they're far enough along with HRT. Like full on period cramps, moodiness and everything!
No no, it wasn't a typo. I meant it as an example of things which make headlines nowadays.
A school said, "Men can have periods" the world is going mad!
Some people believe this is somehow erasing biological women, when usually somebody making that statement are actually talking about biological women who happen to be trans men (which can be and should be referred to as men - which is what I did).
The funny thing about this is transmasc people actually cant get pregnant, so in a way, they're unintentionally right (of course many asterisks as this depends a lot on a lot).
Are you deadnaming mecha Hitler?
Grok, draw a rendition of this, but without furries this time.
Ok Grok, I'll compromise - add sonic-chu
Some very very strong men checked very hard for a couple of hours, but nothing! It's a mystery!
I'm sure they said "no homo" so everything's fine.
Femboys are jus so dang cute
UwU?
👉👈
PragerU went around asking "U Prager?"
I don't get the impression that there the type to ask.
How is babby formed? How girl get pragnant
How do they even define "man?" People with xy chromosomes have given birth before.
I'm interested to read about this, please link to some more information.
Edit: found some, it's not hard to search online for it.
I don't disagree, just pointing out - engaging them on an emotional level (in a different way) is exactly what happened in OP.
What is a man?
...
(Inb4 "a miserable pile of secrets" :p)
That's a geek about to do his job.
That's Diogenes trolling Plato. So technically a Greek about to do his job.
Next time Greece needs a financial bailout, we should give it to them on the condition that their leaders have to all start wearing togas again.
thx for the inb4 :D legendary line
WHAT IS A WOMAN! /s
I know you are /s but I will respond /srs.
The fact that people in support of trans rights often can't give a satisfying definition of "woman" is certainly not very problematic or even important at all, but it's a big sticking point for conservatives and it would be nice to have a real answer.
I haven't tried this on real people yet, but I think that you can use a simple comparison to show that they also can't simply define identity words. For example, they probably can't come up with a simple definition of "father" that includes/excludes all the right people. Pester them on this point. Is a sperm donor a father? Is a man who adopts children a father? Is any male caretaker a father? Is a father-in-law a father? Is a step-father a father? Is an absent father a father?
If they end up with a very complicated & unintuitive flowchart definition, ask them: when someone says "as a father, this concerns me" or "I'm not a good father", what do they actually mean? Are they referring to your definition? or to a vaguely-defined identity that's really based in feelings and values?
This really easily transitions into talking about gender because then you can ask them to explain what people mean when they say "man up" or "be a man". Nobody says those things to mean "be a penised adult human", it's obviously about feelings and values.
The real strength of the "what is a woman" argument is that theres no answer that puts you ahead. If you draw a line, you get absolutely creamed for being some bigoted transphobe, if you take an open stance now you're against women. If you say you can have your cake and eat it too you're ridiculed for the inconsistency.
pretty bold of you to assume PragerU would use the therm "cis" in this context.
What's a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
It would also be funny if a furry pfp account were replying to preggerU.
Dennis Pregger 🤨📸
Penis Preggers*
Why is shoeonhead a bad person?
Because shoes go on feet not heads. Blatant misinformation about the purpose and location of shoes.
Partly because of legitimately bad takes on some stuff but mostly because kids these days don't have the mental flexibility for 2006 4chan humor.
"2006 4chan humor"? saying slurs and posting pedo bears? because that's all I remember from that time
well that and this:
Peak
Moreso a means of communicating where everything is tongue in cheek and generally accepted as fake. It wasn't perfect, don't want a lot of it back, especially not the parts that eventually incubated fascists, but that's her humor, and i understand it.
She's problematic in oh so many other ways. I'm not suggesting she's a protagonist here lol
The whole "lol it's just a joke" thing has been a key tool used to normalize fascism in the US. It's a blatant tactic used by the right to normalize truly horrifying things.
And unfortunately, it has been wildly successful
Look I'm not defending much, but especially not what came after 2006. Shit went south but it wasn't the humor that caused it. /pol/ was a mistake from the start. Gave the fash an unmoderated anonymous hang out. That spread after 2006.
Oh fuck off, just because ypu can't be a fucking bigot openly as easily without being called on it doesnt show a lack of mental flexibility on their part. Fuck off back to 4chan if you can't handle people being called out for being shitty humans.
Preach
I think I used to think that. Like, I get the edgy 4chaner-esque thing. There's a bit of selfaware irony in it all that can work....
But for Shoe, after the Kirk thing, when she rushed to play defense, I think the whole mask dropped. Which, kind of makes sense. I don't think you can do 2010 anti-sjw content for 15 years and not ACTUALLY be a bit of a winger. If you haven't grown in that time, and you're still stuck making that same content... that's just who you are.
Look at her contemporaries and people after her. AmazingAtheist/TJ/IntoTheFray was one of the OG anti-feminist/sjw creators. He's still a bit of an edgelord, but even he's grown past that content and matured in thought.
And you can look at her peers in the space who sort of occupy the same niche. People like Vaush. Bit edgy, bit hot-take. But still has pretty consistent lefty values.
For Shoe, her act stopped being an act. The jokes just became what she is. She wasn't being critical anymore of lefty extemists, she was just becoming a winger. And her defense of Kirk proved it.
Probably the strongest argument against her. I think i just washed it away as a lib take in line with pelosi/schumer types.
On that topic... Has she posted tits? Because there's only one other option.
Given that there no girls on the internet i doubt it.
Mods, i was making an example of 4chan. To follow the tits or gtfo comment above.
"Not real and LGBTQI" maybe works better for mocking the tone of 4chan?
Lol ok bud
complained about people unsympathetic to Cartoid Charlie
Hasn't she's been a figure on the "SWJs are ruining the world" side of youtube for almost a decade now?
yeah, she's been always like this, not sure why people are surprised
To be fair, she had plenty videos criticising the right too. She's from the enlightened centrist actually don't give a fuck I'm so quirky lol camp iirc.
Haha what, did she really??
Who is that
as far as i remember she has no morals of her own - she only tried to appease those that give her views - maybe i'm wrong
"charlie kirk was just a dude"
Clearly they have never seen the movie Junior (1994), starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I seem to remember John Hurt giving birth to a chestburster on video so I call bullshit.
All we know from the aforementioned video is that John Hurt swallows, not spits.
Not with that attitude, they can't.
I have plenty of conversations with transphobic family members and there seems to be a lot of this misunderstanding going around.
There seems to be this belief that trans people are all biological men trying to impose on women's spaces, whether that's saying that a man can have a period, or saying that a trans woman can compete in women's sports.
It's an interesting Schrödinger's cat type phenonomenon - a trans woman cannot use a woman's toilet, so that means that a trans man (who is indistinguishable from a cis male) SHOULD use women's toilets, which is problematic.
All of these transphobic beliefs seem to erase the existence of trans men, they only take cis men into account. So saying, "A biological male cannot give birth" is, 99% of the time, accurate. But that isn't what saying, "a man can give birth" means exactly, it's a more nuanced statement that supports the existence of trans men. "Boys" can have periods, because trans boys exist.
If it is common / possible for biological men to give birth, I'm not aware of that so I can't comment on it, but I do believe that 9/10 transphobia stems from misunderstanding what you're actually talking about. Otherwise I can't see why people would be continuously so hateful to something that is so harmless to anybody who isn't trans.
I assume based on context that this is a typo and you meant can't.
I recently learned that holy shit trans women despite most likely not having a uterus, start experiencing periods once they're far enough along with HRT. Like full on period cramps, moodiness and everything!
No no, it wasn't a typo. I meant it as an example of things which make headlines nowadays.
Some people believe this is somehow erasing biological women, when usually somebody making that statement are actually talking about biological women who happen to be trans men (which can be and should be referred to as men - which is what I did).
Oh okay I misunderstood what kind of crazyposting you were trying to reference
Man.
Men.
See? See!?
Skill issue
It's not for a lack of trying, that's for sure
Just checked, I can't either.
Pick a definition that doesn't exclude cis. Go on. I fucking dare you.
Pretty sure Prager is STILL dying. lmao.
he gets 1 empathy point from me because it was lowkey funny that he called david rockefeller a "good man" and great american
Fuck them in the bussy?
Anyone want a lab partner?
Keep trying, with the power of God, everything is possible!
I want to read the studies that look into this.
The funny thing about this is transmasc people actually cant get pregnant, so in a way, they're unintentionally right (of course many asterisks as this depends a lot on a lot).