This. It's up to the politician to build a platform that gets as many votes as possible. The DNC and Harris choose to ignore their base, shout down the Muslim vote, and took more money from special interests groups than Republicans.
It doesn't matter. Even more so the less power she had to change the situation. All she had to do while vp was say was I don't support, agreed with, nor play a part in the genicide happening in Palestine. She could have said during the campaign that she would stop all weapons going to Isreal and that she'd hand over anyone that helped kill innocent people. She has nothing to lose. Her silence proved she wasn't ready to be president. If she can't stand up to special interest groups with no real skin in the game, do you think she'll magically gain morality once in power? And additionally, what a dumb political move that is ultimately! Not a single vote was gained by backing Isreal, because Republicans were going to back them anyways. Pro genicide people aren't going to vote Democrat, full stop. She was more afraid of losing money rather than the election.
It's crazy to think this all could have been avoided if Biden just kept his word and let us have an actual primary where Kamala predicably would have lost early on.
Instead we got a half assed bait and switch for the worst polling candidate possible. I swear she was picked because she was the cheapest corpo money could buy.
The DNC needs to be dissolved because they keep picking loser corporate stooges that nobody likes in the belief that they can just AstroTurf and gaslight their way to popularity.
Everyone seems to conveniently forget the fact that the only one that was legally entitled to any of the money raised for Biden’s campaign, over like 3 years of fundraising, was Kamala because she was on the ticket.
Restarting the fundraising process from scratch, after even just a 14-21 day primary process that would somehow also be built out of nowhere, would have meant whoever secured any nomination would have easily been outspent by a mile. They would have had no funds to even campaign on. It probably would have locked all the money that was already donated up too, considering that it would take quite some time to refund all of that money; figure out who was owed what exactly based on what hadnt been spent yet, etc…
Like what the fuck else did anyone expect to reasonably happen? It was stupid for Biden to ever say they could even have had a primary. The real promise he should have stuck to was when he claimed he would only be a one term president years beforehand
I don't really recall all the rules, but you're right that she was the only one entitled to it legally. However, I'm pretty sure other pacs can run ads for other candidates. For example, you'll sometimes see democrat or republican ads for spoiler candidates. There's surely still a way it could be used to benefit whoever the democratic candidate was. IANAL though.
She also got the Clintons to campaign for her; HRC went down to Florida and Bill went to Michigan, where he defended Israel to Muslim and Arab-American voters that Harris was ostensibly trying to win over.
Would love to kick the DNC to the curb but at the beginning of this year everyone top to bottom was replaced. It is malleable and we need to change it to finally be progressive and actual leftist party for the people.
She was the cheapest option. Literally look at the other person talking about how they were the only candidate that could use Bidens money so as to immediately have the millions already invested by big pockets and a candidate they could know they could pay for.
If Biden died rather than step aside who would have been the candidate? It would be Harris as that is who was selected by the states that ran democratic primaries at that point.
Harris is deeply unpopular with anyone who isn't a rabid neolib and was solely picked by the neolib establishment (read fucking dinosaurs addicted insider trading) for her willingness to be a corporate stooge.
If she was half as wonderful as the online astroturfing suggested she wouldn't have had an abysmal turnout and wouldn't have lost the election along with every primary along the way.
I knew she was cooked the moment she announced her VP and he got 1,000x the enthusiasm and coverage that she did.
We needed an actual democratic socialist to excite people, not another fucking Israeli funded Republican-lite campaigning on a desperate gamble to gaslight people into thinking she isn't just another dogshit neolib.
None of this answered the question I asked though.
Are you educated in the American political system at all? Im asking this because I don’t know you and a lot of the “they never held a primary” folks are actually not well educated on elections and how they work.
She would have lost, even by the DNC's own crappy poll metrics which showed several candidates that were much more popular, like Newsom who could have easily fulfilled his role as a shill and a well received candidate instead of just an obvious shill.
DNC running around with "too late for a primary" and "can't adjust voter law" is moot when you consider that almost all of them have a catch all cause for holding primary elections in circumstance, and the fact that they aren't even tied to the Federal election or even State control if the DNC wishes.
That all being said, Harris would have been the de facto candidate as the incumbent if Biden died, but if the DNC wanted to, they could easily chose not to run her as the candidate and hold a primary.
Her potential loss might be the case but there is a good reason for why they did not hold a primary after already running one. There’s no legal reason I am aware of that invalidates the races already ran.
No, it’s directly relevant as it is the next closest situation as to what happened. Biden stepped down because ge could not fulfill the role due to his health.
It's literally not. That's not what happened and has nothing to do with me talking about how Biden should have let a primary happen. You just brought this up as if it was relevant when it's really not
The VP has basically no power other than try to persuade the POTUS behind the scenes, which from what I've read, she did to some degree, but to no effect.
Where she blew it was when she said she wouldn't do anything different than Biden. That was the end for her campaign. (regardless of whether anyone thinks it should have been that way or not, IMO that was the death blow)
The VP has basically no power other than try to persuade the POTUS behind the scenes, which from what I’ve read, she did to some degree, but to no effect.
The POTUS didn't dictate her positions during the campaign. Stop making excuses just because she supported genocide for you.
Agreed...Also, if she had no power and is not responsible for anything Bidens government did, how is she at all capable of doing the job of the president? her qualifications were that she was a fly on the wall and observed others, but didnt participate in any meaningful way, huh. She simultaneously blameless and had no power, but also the most experienced, most qualified to do the job and the only one the DNC could possibly put up against trump. What a fuckin joke of a party.
Obviously, as I said, I'm talking about power to decide policy. The VP (as it has been for all of them, not just her) can advise, try to persuade, but it's the POTUS who makes the final decisions.
The VP can't override the POTUS on anything. That's just a fact.
There are lots of replies conflating that fact with the positions she took during her campaign. She was obviously totally responsible for positions she took in the campaign. I'm not sure Trump wouldn't have still won no matter what positions she took, but we'll never know. Point is, she took the positions she did, and she lost.
She wasn't required to listen to the biden people. The biden people hid his mental decline until it was too late. Their political instincts are runny dogshit just like their entire wing of the party.
WE HAVE ACTUAL RIGHT WING WAR CRIMINALS DOING WAR CRIMES RIGHT NOW, BUT YES, PLEASE YELL AT THE ONE PERSON WHO HAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKALL TO DO WITH IT AFTER ALL OF YOU TOLD HER THE CURRENT WAR CRIMINALS WILL DO A BETTER JOB.
The woman who advocated for "the most lethal fighting force in the world" and boasted of Liz Cheneys support? Yeah she would have just gotten everything in place for the next republican to do instead. Like Biden did with the border camps and ICE.
it was better to abstain from voting or vote 3rd party than vote Harris because the Biden admin supported Israel because it legitimized the electoral system without affecting the outcome.
Like, yeah guess who else is sucking Netanyahu’s dick
why is this homophobic trope still being played like it's a major own of fascists??
But sure hope you feel great about not voting for Harris so we could get someone objectively worse on all fronts, including the Israel / Palestine conflict.
Please tell me in what ways the Trump admin was worse than the Biden admin on Palestine. Like an actual example.
I'm fairly certain the president of the worlds largest settler colonial empire knew what its pet settler colony was planning on doing after the genocide.
Edit: bulldozers where in gaza pretty much day one
But did he propose it? Did he actually go up and say he wants Gaza cleared out with a Biden resort in its place? Did he share an AI video of gaudy gold statues and bikini clad women on the beach?
I agree that Biden's stance on Israel/Palestine was terrible but Trump is clearly doing and saying these things out of greed and personal enrichment without any regard for human rights.
Edit: not entertaining any more replies from bad faith arguments. I agree with the fundamental truth that Biden is a centrist and had a large part in Trump becoming president again but the additional minutae re: Gaza is what foreign actors like Russia really want most of all - to splinter the left even more than it already is. We can't let perfection get in the way of progress. We'll just continue to sit here and bicker amongst each other while Republicans continue to steamroll everyone, including Palestinians.
Obviously you don’t understand that liberal means a terrible thing in other countries. Or, so I am reliably informed here. Regularly. Like, constantly.
Nah, Netanyahu makes me ashamed of my Jewish heritage, the whole state of Israel and what it has been doing really does tbh. They're probably literally making people antisemitic since they try to conflate that with being anti Israel even though it's squarely separate.
Would be like saying people criticizing the USA are anti Christian or something along those lines.
Anyways, no, I think you know the right answer is Trump.
Nobody is simping for Netanyahu I just would prefer a world where Harris won and Trump lost. Part of the reason Harris lost was people not voting for the Dem candidate and actively helping a person who has an even worse track record on Israeli-Palestinian relations win the office of the president.
It makes no sense. It's like not voting to have a golf ball put up your ass so the pineapple can get shoved up there instead.
Lol, no, I'm certainly not. I do what I can within my limited means although I'm sure I could do more. Sadly, just by virtue of voting, I've done more than the majority of my countrymen but I certainly am no paragon of virtue.
I am a realist though. Realistically the Palestinian people would have been better off, or at the least not worse off, with a Harris administration at the helm.
Regardless, the diplomacy would have been carried out by the statesmen in the background if she was in office or Trump - Trump just comes with massive baggage.
Geez, calling me a morally bankrupt coward is just a tad bit mean, don't ya know? Also doesn't really address the actual real world we're in where we are voting on an office which is making decisions that go far beyond only the tiny part of the world that is Israel/Palestine.
Like I don't know how naive and narrow minded one has to be to think a world with Trump in charge of the USA is better than the alternative.
Like, obviously, if I could waive a magic wand I'd change a whole fuckpile of stuff about our government and our system of living as a whole. Unfortunately, presumably, much like yourself, I'm not magic.
A lot of our friends here have only a mass-media understanding of American politics. And given that mass media is utterly terrible, it’s . . . a crooked understanding.
Ah yes I'm a morally bankrupt coward for ... Voting? Being realistic about our world? Caring about more than one thing at a time?
If it wasn't concern trolling and people actually cared about the Palestinians more than some moral superiority complex we would have Harris as president. Instead people were too short sighted or dumb to realize they were being manipulated into giving Trump support by them not voting or voting third party.
So ... Yeah, obviously I think what happened and is happening in Gaza is fucked up. It's a man made famine starving kids, not to mention all the other ways they're dying.
I don't owe civility to anyone making excuses for the fucking democrats, nothing about the "real world" requires you to accept their complicity in genocide you decided to do that shit on your own
Democrats did more to put Trump in power than every protest & third party voter combined, and you're still making excuses for them because you're a spineless moron
I wish these relevant sourced arguments could bring some around, but they won’t in large part because many of these comments are not American voters and just want to vent.
Just like we did when we were kids. Except we live here and we vote.
I was raised republican and you would be even more surprised how completely ineffective this would have been on me in the past. The people that continue to vote republican are so much dumber than you realize. Like find a source that disagrees with them, so they go find new source type dumb.
And just in case you forgot, that was Biden slowing down those weapon shipments that had been congressionally approved long before the Oct 7 attacks. It's been trump that's been unblocking, delivering, and promising more.
Proceeds to present no math and instead a baseless assertion. Biden did absolutely nothing to restrain Israel.
Biden slowing down those weapon shipments
Well now you're just lying through your teeth too justify genocide collaboration. Weapon shipments increased under Biden, he even went around Congress to do it.
It’s been trump that’s been unblocking, delivering, and promising more.
No, you were just denying and downplaying the genocide when it was your team doing it.
And this is why the lesser evil argument failed; because Trump winning was the only way you people would even acknowledge what America was doing
IF YOU THINK TYPING IN ALL CAPS WILL MAKE PEOPLE LISTEN TO YOU, YOU ARE INCORRECT.
AND YOU SAY HARRIS WAS THE "ONE PERSON" HUH. I DONT THINK YOU COUNT VERY WELL.
I always thought AIPAC bribes were kinda cheap, but then when you compare it to other lobbying groups and even bribes for spies, that's just an excellent deal on Israel's part.
They can literally buy almost any politician, and they'll defend Israel to the death even after the stakes have dropped to zero. She's not running for 2028, has practically nothing to lose except money, but still defends probably one of the worst Democratic campaigns for decades.
First off, I want to be clear that I’m not making excuses for Kamala. This is more of a tangent, but people should know that even though it seems weird, smiling is a natural stress response for some folks.
The instance that is seared into my memory is when I got the phone call that there was an earthquake in the country where my sibling was staying and we hadn’t yet heard from her (she ended up being ok). No matter how tried to fight it, my face couldn’t help but twist into a grin. It kinda fucked me up. Like: “What is my body trying to tell me?” “Do I subconsciously want them to die?” It was only years later that I found out that this is normal. Looking back, I think it especially sucks for kids who can’t help it, can’t explain it, and get the “Do you think this is funny!” treatment.
Anyway, if you find yourself or someone else in a similar situation, please don’t judge too harshly.
No, this is definitely the smile of i do not take you seriously. Kamala is paid by aipac and promised to continue giving billions to maintain settler colonialism
All her jobs required stress management you can't convince me that she is stressed for a random perdon screaming at her. This is definitely not similar to someone panicing because of an earthquake
People like Biden and Harris and Obama and the Clintons are leading us down the road of complacence to the fundamental problems that are destroying us. They deserve nothing but derision and scorn. This is the test of our time. The future is with, in so much as it can be “with” politics, people like Mamdani and Platner. If you are against these policy proposals and against the culture of these campaigns, you are against progressive politics and you are against rational governance.
If you’re against these campaigns you can go fuck yourself right to hell, and you will be written into history accordingly.
Stop living in the American ethos bubble by only comparing her and others to the politicians within our borders. Relative to what the world considers Left and Right to be, she and Biden are Right wing.
She was a world leader. She must be measured as such.
Edit: I don't think the message warranted moderation and removal.
So we should judge her by European standards which you are calling “the world’s standard”? The left= anti-capitalist is very much a European perspective.
Let’s not continue to mistake Europe and European views for “The World” because that is historically problematic. Much of the world is still trying to figure out what rights people have from/by their governments.
No, you mushroom. I stated the parameters. You're just too myopic to see beyond your own nose. Kamala is right of center, even in the USA. She's not "left wing." She's left of Trump. I don't see a single reference to Europe in my first comment.
Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They're sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don't have to pass what they ran on. But they'll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle
Centrists choose to die rather than tell your god netanyahu no.
As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change.
Centrists are unwilling to enact any change. They only support genocide. Nothing else. Ever. They always get in their own way. They always manage to find some procedural bullshit to consider sacrosanct. But they'll break the law to sell weapons to your favorite person for your favorite activity.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don't know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don't want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris' chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates.
You're gloating that your garbage pro-genocide party only protects pro-genocide incumbents from challengers.
Your wing of the party prefers trump to ever stopping their genocide support. You got a candidate you are happy with: anyone who supports genocide for you.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it's not even worth arguing with these people. They've been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They've been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they've been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
Them pretending that there is some international standard definition for what is right or left is hilarious. Typical Europeans to think the world revolves around them. They've never beaten the colonizer out of their minds.
They said they aren’t European. I susoect their education in political philosophy comes from non-academic sources as I see this specific Euro-centric claim frequently from those educated through memes and forums.
By the world's standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
Exactly, what constitutes “progressive” and “conservative” are relative to their time and place. Mistaking what is true for Western Europe as being true for all is historically problematic.
How did Harris "do war crimes"? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit.
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they'll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
First, Harris is not part of "the left." Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can't even do that much is less than worthless; they're a liability.
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
People are making this black and white when it is very much not.
You'll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
During the Biden presidency she pushed for more protection for Palestinian civilians and more to prevent famine, but was blocked by the administration.
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won't stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don't you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn't have sny right to self defence
It’s entirely possible to want the Palestinians to be safe from harm while at the same time wanting to give Israel funding for the Iron Dome and other defensive measures to protect their people from Hamas.
No it isn't. Do you also support sending weapons and money to Russia? Would you have supported it for Nazi Germany? Do you really not appreciate the insanity of saying "it's possible to oppose the holocaust while also supporting sending troops to guard the death camp!"
Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
On of the things that allowed Trump to become president is the division among those who were against him.
She and Biden were right wing war criminal though. Why is it crazy to acknowledge the truth? Because lying and pretending we can be friends with right-wing war criminals might help elect a right-wing war criminal that's not as insane as the right-wing war criminal that ended up getting elected?
Kamala and Biden said they don't care about voters who they've alienated by committing genocide. They knowingly caused such division, so they're all to blame for that. Trump being elected can fairly be blamed on them.
Yes, yes, Anyone who doesn't agree with centrists and their support of genocide and absolutely nothing else ever must be a scary foreigner. It explains why you support republican border policy. Don't want those anti-genocide furriners getting in and giving americans the idea that genocide isn't the only good in this world.
She wasn't a rightwing war criminal because she didn't have real power yet, but she was definitely an aspiring rightwing war criminal. Surprise surprise, materially supporting genocide is a war crime.
Yeah but things are so much better for palestine under trump. larger munitions are essentially the same, not getting aid as the same as not getting enough. formal annexation of their land is the same as the status quo. This international relations equal war crime is so annoying.
Ok genocide supporter. You just mad that it is Trump who is continuing the grnocide instead of Harris. Anybody in position of power should be persecuted for genocide support including Trump
What’s your issue? Nothing about the statement is inaccurate. Though it is missing a lot of context, such as it was Clinton who ordered the pied piper strategy to elevate Trump to the nomination, so she shares a lot of the blame.
I don't think we're going to get someone to the left of Kamala for the next few presidents. All the protest voters helped our country choose hard mode, and a lot of them are trying to rationalize it in any way that doesn't make them feel like they played a part in such a close election.
We have Trump because more people voted for Trump, and lots of people didn't vote at all. You could blame Biden or Kamala, sure, but the entire political party could also be blamed, along with the establishment itself. Was Kamala the best candidate to run? Probably not. Biden decided to try for another term, though, and we ended up where we are.
When you can choose between the lesser of 2 evils, or not choose at all: be aware of what "not choosing" will actually do.
What they said is 99% republican cannot win against 100% republican because Republican policy is extremely unpopular with anyone who might vote democrat, therefore if they keep running moderates, they will continue to lose.
Idk how you got that shit, but if you need help comprehending anything else, just ask instead of whatever lead you to believe they support trump.
"I support the extermination of all Arabs; the only thing I care about is shedding the blood of foreign infants and there is nothing I wouldn't do to support the victory of the white race"
Your comment is exactly why Hillary and Harris lost. Even now, you can't see that the compromise candidate will eventually fail, and continue to fail, because their values don't match the voters.
And hey, if you had written this comment before 2016, or even before 2024, we could understand your instinct. You might not have realized how the Dems' shift to the right would undercut the entire party. But now you should be able to figure it out. Take Harris's policies, for example. Which ones were going to benefit the average American? She was weak on Israel, her border strategy was xenophobic (and therefore racist), her home owner tax credit would not have lowered housing or rent prices for the vast majority of Americans... In other words, even if she got everything she wanted, would it have made our lives better? I just don't see it, and neither did hundreds of millions of Americans.
All it would take to be left of Harris is opposing genocide and unlawful deportations.
The problem is that you Blue MAGAs support fascism, too, but you believe yourselves better than the Red MAGAs because you like fascists with a commitment to decorum. And you project that onto the rest of us, so you think our rejection of these Democrats is simply a rejection of decorum. Just like the Red MAGAs, you cannot even conceive of any “good American” rejecting your party’s fascism. And probably, just like them, you don’t actually pay attention to the policies you’re really supporting. You just treat it like team sports.
Right because I voted for trump and not the only person positioned to stop him holding office again. We didn't pick Harris, we tried to pick not trump.
Do you know how an election works? The person with the most votes wins. Which means you have to, you know, vote. And if you don't, you make other people carry your weight. Likewe actual participating progressives are doing. 3 years of the cycle I work on reform, 1 year I accept the current reality.
The criteria is "don't support a fucking genocide" and clearly enough people agree on it that it cost her the fucking election, either that or we're a minority with no impact in which case it's not our fault dems lost anyway lol
“We took a super safe stance playing grown up protestor against a lady who doesn’t have any power anymore!
Protest Trump? We can’t do that, he has real power, he might fight back! Gestapo squads currently kidnapping brown people? la la la la I can’t hear you! We’re helping!”
No, idiot. Harris lost because she was bad on everything especially economy.
Only 2% of the people had foreign affairs as their top issue which is split between people who care about Ukraine/Russia the most and people who cared about Palestine/Israel and from the very small subset who cared about Palestine/Israel we don't know how much cared because they support Palestine more or Israel more
Trump is the president now so why is it hard for Harris to admit her support for Israel and complicity in the genocide and apologies. She don't even care about people now she just want to sell a book. She doesn't seem to realize that if she don't join the fight with the people who elected her and are protesting Trump could be one of the first victim of a potential dictatorship by Trump or one of his successor
These protestors and people like yourself helped Trump get elected
By saying that the genocide you love more than anything is bad. You lost because the shitty candidate you worship supported the only thing you will ever love: murdering Palestinian children.
She lost because a bunch of idiots decided to stay home and not vote. She didn't do anything worth having Trump as the president. What a terrible look the folks in this video are projecting.
You unconditionally support a genocide for just two years and suddenly you're a "war criminal." So much for the tolerant left.
Just two years? How long has she been in politics? It's much longer than that.
How much power do you think VPOTUS has over Israeli policy?
She had complete control over her own campaign platform, where she chose to be in lockstep with Biden.
This. It's up to the politician to build a platform that gets as many votes as possible. The DNC and Harris choose to ignore their base, shout down the Muslim vote, and took more money from special interests groups than Republicans.
Enough to have a backbone? To stand on morality? No one made her back genicide. Like the fuck we talking about?
Nothing you said answers the question. What specific actions do you think Harris can take as VP to stop what POTUS is intending to do?
It doesn't matter. Even more so the less power she had to change the situation. All she had to do while vp was say was I don't support, agreed with, nor play a part in the genicide happening in Palestine. She could have said during the campaign that she would stop all weapons going to Isreal and that she'd hand over anyone that helped kill innocent people. She has nothing to lose. Her silence proved she wasn't ready to be president. If she can't stand up to special interest groups with no real skin in the game, do you think she'll magically gain morality once in power? And additionally, what a dumb political move that is ultimately! Not a single vote was gained by backing Isreal, because Republicans were going to back them anyways. Pro genicide people aren't going to vote Democrat, full stop. She was more afraid of losing money rather than the election.
Right in the middle
OK, so you live here. Do you need me to provide evidence for the widespread support for Israel among the voting population?
Enough that AIPAC gave her over 9 million dollars so far lol
That doesn’t suggest she has power.
I don't have power. Where's my AIPAC check?
Lol goddamn you're dumb, AIPAC isn't a charity
It's crazy to think this all could have been avoided if Biden just kept his word and let us have an actual primary where Kamala predicably would have lost early on.
Instead we got a half assed bait and switch for the worst polling candidate possible. I swear she was picked because she was the cheapest corpo money could buy.
The DNC needs to be dissolved because they keep picking loser corporate stooges that nobody likes in the belief that they can just AstroTurf and gaslight their way to popularity.
Everyone seems to conveniently forget the fact that the only one that was legally entitled to any of the money raised for Biden’s campaign, over like 3 years of fundraising, was Kamala because she was on the ticket.
Restarting the fundraising process from scratch, after even just a 14-21 day primary process that would somehow also be built out of nowhere, would have meant whoever secured any nomination would have easily been outspent by a mile. They would have had no funds to even campaign on. It probably would have locked all the money that was already donated up too, considering that it would take quite some time to refund all of that money; figure out who was owed what exactly based on what hadnt been spent yet, etc…
Like what the fuck else did anyone expect to reasonably happen? It was stupid for Biden to ever say they could even have had a primary. The real promise he should have stuck to was when he claimed he would only be a one term president years beforehand
Lol, so that is how we decide presidential nominees now? Who has the money backing…
Agree - but bad take
Hasn't that always been the case?
I don't really recall all the rules, but you're right that she was the only one entitled to it legally. However, I'm pretty sure other pacs can run ads for other candidates. For example, you'll sometimes see democrat or republican ads for spoiler candidates. There's surely still a way it could be used to benefit whoever the democratic candidate was. IANAL though.
And she still probably have won if she'd stuck with the campaign she was running at the start, rather than ditching it to pivot right
What, Liz Cheney wasn't good enough for you?? 🙃 Seriously, that's when i knew we were sunk. What a fucking disaster
She also got the Clintons to campaign for her; HRC went down to Florida and Bill went to Michigan, where he defended Israel to Muslim and Arab-American voters that Harris was ostensibly trying to win over.
lol
Would love to kick the DNC to the curb but at the beginning of this year everyone top to bottom was replaced. It is malleable and we need to change it to finally be progressive and actual leftist party for the people.
She was the cheapest option. Literally look at the other person talking about how they were the only candidate that could use Bidens money so as to immediately have the millions already invested by big pockets and a candidate they could know they could pay for.
She outraised trump and still lost. We didn't have a primary because the party didn't want someone who might not support genocide.
If Biden died rather than step aside who would have been the candidate? It would be Harris as that is who was selected by the states that ran democratic primaries at that point.
Harris is deeply unpopular with anyone who isn't a rabid neolib and was solely picked by the neolib establishment (read fucking dinosaurs addicted insider trading) for her willingness to be a corporate stooge.
If she was half as wonderful as the online astroturfing suggested she wouldn't have had an abysmal turnout and wouldn't have lost the election along with every primary along the way.
I knew she was cooked the moment she announced her VP and he got 1,000x the enthusiasm and coverage that she did.
We needed an actual democratic socialist to excite people, not another fucking Israeli funded Republican-lite campaigning on a desperate gamble to gaslight people into thinking she isn't just another dogshit neolib.
Kamala had to be carried as VP, she had absolutely no business being the nomination.
Shit, the only reason she was made VP was because of the identity politics of having yet another ancient white guy in office.
Sorry I double responded, I meant to reply to another commenter and left it here by accident.
She ran to biden's right. biden never promised to put a republican on his cabinet. He never campaigned with cheneys.
None of this answered the question I asked though.
Are you educated in the American political system at all? Im asking this because I don’t know you and a lot of the “they never held a primary” folks are actually not well educated on elections and how they work.
She would have lost, even by the DNC's own crappy poll metrics which showed several candidates that were much more popular, like Newsom who could have easily fulfilled his role as a shill and a well received candidate instead of just an obvious shill.
DNC running around with "too late for a primary" and "can't adjust voter law" is moot when you consider that almost all of them have a catch all cause for holding primary elections in circumstance, and the fact that they aren't even tied to the Federal election or even State control if the DNC wishes.
That all being said, Harris would have been the de facto candidate as the incumbent if Biden died, but if the DNC wanted to, they could easily chose not to run her as the candidate and hold a primary.
Her potential loss might be the case but there is a good reason for why they did not hold a primary after already running one. There’s no legal reason I am aware of that invalidates the races already ran.
Your question isn't relevant to what actually happened because it's an entirely different hypothetical situation.
No, it’s directly relevant as it is the next closest situation as to what happened. Biden stepped down because ge could not fulfill the role due to his health.
It's literally not. That's not what happened and has nothing to do with me talking about how Biden should have let a primary happen. You just brought this up as if it was relevant when it's really not
Biden stepped aside due to health concerns after a disastrous debate. These concerns have since been justified as Biden has cancer.
There was a primary and Biden/Harris won it. They ran unopposed for most of it.
The VP has basically no power other than try to persuade the POTUS behind the scenes, which from what I've read, she did to some degree, but to no effect.
Where she blew it was when she said she wouldn't do anything different than Biden. That was the end for her campaign. (regardless of whether anyone thinks it should have been that way or not, IMO that was the death blow)
The POTUS didn't dictate her positions during the campaign. Stop making excuses just because she supported genocide for you.
That and saying we will have the most lethal military. Plus we want trump and gops immigration policies
Yeah, she was going to become a war criminal, but the voters let her down.
She presided over the US senate and cannot be dismissed by the president, how did she have "basically no power"???
Agreed...Also, if she had no power and is not responsible for anything Bidens government did, how is she at all capable of doing the job of the president? her qualifications were that she was a fly on the wall and observed others, but didnt participate in any meaningful way, huh. She simultaneously blameless and had no power, but also the most experienced, most qualified to do the job and the only one the DNC could possibly put up against trump. What a fuckin joke of a party.
💯 so sick of hearing about small beans uwu bomber harris
she's just a girl 💅
It's the same for every VP, not just her. POTUS makes the final decision. VP can't override it.
Smallbean VP. Second-in-Command of the US.
Obviously, as I said, I'm talking about power to decide policy. The VP (as it has been for all of them, not just her) can advise, try to persuade, but it's the POTUS who makes the final decisions.
The VP can't override the POTUS on anything. That's just a fact.
There are lots of replies conflating that fact with the positions she took during her campaign. She was obviously totally responsible for positions she took in the campaign. I'm not sure Trump wouldn't have still won no matter what positions she took, but we'll never know. Point is, she took the positions she did, and she lost.
iirc her campaign said “the Biden people” demanded she say that.
Then it wasn't her campaign.
That was “the Biden people”’s point, yeah.
She wasn't required to listen to the biden people. The biden people hid his mental decline until it was too late. Their political instincts are runny dogshit just like their entire wing of the party.
So either she should have not made that promise or she should have broken it. Easy enough. It's not like she didn't know what was on the line.
I think that's a hindsight sort of thing. Of course she should have. But we all know the answer.
Where exactly is she shaken?
I only see her standing up for a splitsecond and then a smirk at the end.
WE HAVE ACTUAL RIGHT WING WAR CRIMINALS DOING WAR CRIMES RIGHT NOW, BUT YES, PLEASE YELL AT THE ONE PERSON WHO HAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKALL TO DO WITH IT AFTER ALL OF YOU TOLD HER THE CURRENT WAR CRIMINALS WILL DO A BETTER JOB.
I highly doubt Kamala would be using $100k missiles to kill venezuelan fisherman.
The woman who advocated for "the most lethal fighting force in the world" and boasted of Liz Cheneys support? Yeah she would have just gotten everything in place for the next republican to do instead. Like Biden did with the border camps and ICE.
Oh don't get me wrong, shed have found ways to be evil, I just don't think she'd specifically do that.
It's neat how it was either vote for not-trump or get trump, and so many haters loved them some trump.
it was better to abstain from voting or vote 3rd party than vote Harris because the Biden admin supported Israel because it legitimized the electoral system without affecting the outcome.
why is this homophobic trope still being played like it's a major own of fascists??
Please tell me in what ways the Trump admin was worse than the Biden admin on Palestine. Like an actual example.
I'm fairly certain that Biden never proposed bulldozing the Gaza Strip and building his own resort on it.
I'm fairly certain the president of the worlds largest settler colonial empire knew what its pet settler colony was planning on doing after the genocide.
Edit: bulldozers where in gaza pretty much day one
But did he propose it? Did he actually go up and say he wants Gaza cleared out with a Biden resort in its place? Did he share an AI video of gaudy gold statues and bikini clad women on the beach?
I agree that Biden's stance on Israel/Palestine was terrible but Trump is clearly doing and saying these things out of greed and personal enrichment without any regard for human rights.
Edit: not entertaining any more replies from bad faith arguments. I agree with the fundamental truth that Biden is a centrist and had a large part in Trump becoming president again but the additional minutae re: Gaza is what foreign actors like Russia really want most of all - to splinter the left even more than it already is. We can't let perfection get in the way of progress. We'll just continue to sit here and bicker amongst each other while Republicans continue to steamroll everyone, including Palestinians.
...Man, if I didn't know better I'd assume this post was satire.
So your problem is merely the optics? That biden had better optics for his support of genocide? That makes him better how??
Like he knew fully well what the endgame was and didn't flinch, but I guess he wasn't as gauche as boasting about how he personally profits from it...
Obviously you don’t understand that liberal means a terrible thing in other countries. Or, so I am reliably informed here. Regularly. Like, constantly.
It means "genocidal monster" here now.
It means a terrible thing in every country
You.
Nah, Netanyahu makes me ashamed of my Jewish heritage, the whole state of Israel and what it has been doing really does tbh. They're probably literally making people antisemitic since they try to conflate that with being anti Israel even though it's squarely separate.
Would be like saying people criticizing the USA are anti Christian or something along those lines.
Anyways, no, I think you know the right answer is Trump.
Him too. But he's not on this thread being a simp for netanyahu. You are.
Nobody is simping for Netanyahu I just would prefer a world where Harris won and Trump lost. Part of the reason Harris lost was people not voting for the Dem candidate and actively helping a person who has an even worse track record on Israeli-Palestinian relations win the office of the president.
It makes no sense. It's like not voting to have a golf ball put up your ass so the pineapple can get shoved up there instead.
then you should be upset that she supported genocide, Instead you're mad at the people who told you she would lose if she supported genocide.
Because they were right.
You're fine with trading the lives of innocent palestinians to maintain your own comfort and security, you deserve Trump and worse
Lol, no, I'm certainly not. I do what I can within my limited means although I'm sure I could do more. Sadly, just by virtue of voting, I've done more than the majority of my countrymen but I certainly am no paragon of virtue.
I am a realist though. Realistically the Palestinian people would have been better off, or at the least not worse off, with a Harris administration at the helm.
Regardless, the diplomacy would have been carried out by the statesmen in the background if she was in office or Trump - Trump just comes with massive baggage.
"Realistically I had no choice but to be a morally bankrupt coward" lol fuck off
Geez, calling me a morally bankrupt coward is just a tad bit mean, don't ya know? Also doesn't really address the actual real world we're in where we are voting on an office which is making decisions that go far beyond only the tiny part of the world that is Israel/Palestine.
Like I don't know how naive and narrow minded one has to be to think a world with Trump in charge of the USA is better than the alternative.
Like, obviously, if I could waive a magic wand I'd change a whole fuckpile of stuff about our government and our system of living as a whole. Unfortunately, presumably, much like yourself, I'm not magic.
A lot of our friends here have only a mass-media understanding of American politics. And given that mass media is utterly terrible, it’s . . . a crooked understanding.
I can’t believe you tried to pull the “it’s more important than tiny little Palestine” bullshit. It’s a fucking
GENOCIDE
Kids are dying every day.
Morally bankrupt coward was too kind for the kind of person you actually are.
Ah yes I'm a morally bankrupt coward for ... Voting? Being realistic about our world? Caring about more than one thing at a time?
If it wasn't concern trolling and people actually cared about the Palestinians more than some moral superiority complex we would have Harris as president. Instead people were too short sighted or dumb to realize they were being manipulated into giving Trump support by them not voting or voting third party.
So ... Yeah, obviously I think what happened and is happening in Gaza is fucked up. It's a man made famine starving kids, not to mention all the other ways they're dying.
I don't owe civility to anyone making excuses for the fucking democrats, nothing about the "real world" requires you to accept their complicity in genocide you decided to do that shit on your own
Lol you're such a silly goose.
Enjoy the next 3 years of Trump... you did this.
Democrats did more to put Trump in power than every protest & third party voter combined, and you're still making excuses for them because you're a spineless moron
I wish these relevant sourced arguments could bring some around, but they won’t in large part because many of these comments are not American voters and just want to vent.
Just like we did when we were kids. Except we live here and we vote.
I was raised republican and you would be even more surprised how completely ineffective this would have been on me in the past. The people that continue to vote republican are so much dumber than you realize. Like find a source that disagrees with them, so they go find new source type dumb.
No, you were just denying and downplaying the genocide when it was your team doing it
I'm not going to do the work for you, but the math is simple:
Would that number have gone down at all if Trump had been president on Oct 7? Only when they ran out of victims, and you know it.
https://nypost.com/2024/10/30/world-news/trump-told-netanyahu-to-end-the-war-by-january-if-he-wins-report/
And just in case you forgot, that was Biden slowing down those weapon shipments that had been congressionally approved long before the Oct 7 attacks. It's been trump that's been unblocking, delivering, and promising more.
Proceeds to present no math and instead a baseless assertion. Biden did absolutely nothing to restrain Israel.
Well now you're just lying through your teeth too justify genocide collaboration. Weapon shipments increased under Biden, he even went around Congress to do it.
No, you were just denying and downplaying the genocide when it was your team doing it.
And this is why the lesser evil argument failed; because Trump winning was the only way you people would even acknowledge what America was doing
Trump is the same for Palestine, he's worse for you and that's the only part you give a shit about
objectively wrong
Anything's possible when you make shit up
Nice sources you have there.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is russian propaganda" lol keep losing
Be fair. Centrists were willing to sacrifice everyone's comfort and stability as long as they didn't have to tell netanyahu no.
Lol you're not wrong
Delusional
"Everyone who disagrees with me is russian propaganda" lol cope
IF YOU THINK TYPING IN ALL CAPS WILL MAKE PEOPLE LISTEN TO YOU, YOU ARE INCORRECT.
AND YOU SAY HARRIS WAS THE "ONE PERSON" HUH. I DONT THINK YOU COUNT VERY WELL.
Do you remember that she was never in charge of anything except babysitting Congress?
Yup. These are the chucklefucks who handed Trump the presidency. Now they want to scream at everyone else, but themselves. Embarrassing.
"We have four years of Trump!"
I guess it's good to see that someone is still an optimist.
Good for that protestor. Look at that dumb smug bribe-taking loser smiling on stage. What a waste.
Good.
I always thought AIPAC bribes were kinda cheap, but then when you compare it to other lobbying groups and even bribes for spies, that's just an excellent deal on Israel's part.
They can literally buy almost any politician, and they'll defend Israel to the death even after the stakes have dropped to zero. She's not running for 2028, has practically nothing to lose except money, but still defends probably one of the worst Democratic campaigns for decades.
The worst part about aipac is that were fucking funding it.
Apparently is so funny for Kamala that Hind Rajab was shot
First off, I want to be clear that I’m not making excuses for Kamala. This is more of a tangent, but people should know that even though it seems weird, smiling is a natural stress response for some folks.
The instance that is seared into my memory is when I got the phone call that there was an earthquake in the country where my sibling was staying and we hadn’t yet heard from her (she ended up being ok). No matter how tried to fight it, my face couldn’t help but twist into a grin. It kinda fucked me up. Like: “What is my body trying to tell me?” “Do I subconsciously want them to die?” It was only years later that I found out that this is normal. Looking back, I think it especially sucks for kids who can’t help it, can’t explain it, and get the “Do you think this is funny!” treatment.
Anyway, if you find yourself or someone else in a similar situation, please don’t judge too harshly.
No, this is definitely the smile of i do not take you seriously. Kamala is paid by aipac and promised to continue giving billions to maintain settler colonialism
All her jobs required stress management you can't convince me that she is stressed for a random perdon screaming at her. This is definitely not similar to someone panicing because of an earthquake
Why are you deflecting we are talking about Harris here. If she can't handle people she shouldn't do public event.
You just an Harris worshiper
I dothat, so I hear you. But her grin seems pretty relaxed, if not smug
She supports genocide. She gets no benefit of the doubt. She was smiling because she was trying to contain laughter.
Not what suppressed laughter looks like. At best it's relief, of an opposing person being taken away.
No benefit of the doubt for the genocidal.
I hope the cultists won't come here defending her
Your hopes were in vain. The pro-genocide brigade is here.
They was already there since 48
Too late
Nope. Just the cultists supporting republiQans.
Dems are cultists, republicans are too.
People like Biden and Harris and Obama and the Clintons are leading us down the road of complacence to the fundamental problems that are destroying us. They deserve nothing but derision and scorn. This is the test of our time. The future is with, in so much as it can be “with” politics, people like Mamdani and Platner. If you are against these policy proposals and against the culture of these campaigns, you are against progressive politics and you are against rational governance.
If you’re against these campaigns you can go fuck yourself right to hell, and you will be written into history accordingly.
i mean you lay down with dick cheney you get up with war crimes knowwhatimean?
One error. It wont be "four years of trump", because either he dies earlier or he lives long enough to start his third term.
There is not one single thing about this world that makes me think we're lucky enough for that. I'm fully convinced we're heading for Trump 20XX... :/
How many scummy person dies so late?
the good die young.
Or the end of the free democratic election system in the US.
From now on, every "election" will be a shit show that will push through idiot leaders that the people don't want.
I mean, that's been the past three presidential elections anyway.
Thats what the "third term" implies. The end of democracy in the US is a prerequisite for that.
Its fair to call Harris out on her support of Israel. It is bullshit to say she is why we have Trump. We are why we have Trump.
Stop living in the American ethos bubble by only comparing her and others to the politicians within our borders. Relative to what the world considers Left and Right to be, she and Biden are Right wing.
She was a world leader. She must be measured as such.
Edit: I don't think the message warranted moderation and removal.
So we should judge her by European standards which you are calling “the world’s standard”? The left= anti-capitalist is very much a European perspective.
Let’s not continue to mistake Europe and European views for “The World” because that is historically problematic. Much of the world is still trying to figure out what rights people have from/by their governments.
No, you mushroom. I stated the parameters. You're just too myopic to see beyond your own nose. Kamala is right of center, even in the USA. She's not "left wing." She's left of Trump. I don't see a single reference to Europe in my first comment.
She is definitely a right wing politician by western standards. And shes at least a funder of war crimes.
I mean what do you call someone who supports right wing policies and does war crimes then?
They think the dems need to move even further right so probably a good leader?
Trump, and these people helped get him elected.
Liberals will never take any personal responsibility under any circumstance and it’s really irritating.
Liberals didn’t protest the alternative to Trump. That was leftists.
Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They're sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don't have to pass what they ran on. But they'll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Centrists choose to die rather than tell your god netanyahu no.
Centrists are unwilling to enact any change. They only support genocide. Nothing else. Ever. They always get in their own way. They always manage to find some procedural bullshit to consider sacrosanct. But they'll break the law to sell weapons to your favorite person for your favorite activity.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
Ah yes, the old “stopping genocide by voting for parties that promise to commit genocide” tactic. Works every time!
Man listen to yourself.
Harris being bad about economy made her lost
You’re saying leftists helped Trump win because they think his economy is better.
People from all races and classes was fooled by Trump thanks to the terrible job Harris did in her campaign
If progressives knew how to run a campaign they would be able to win elections.
Progressives lose so consistently that they have to depend on the DNC to even have a voice because there are so few of them.
Progressives can’t even win against AIPAC funded candidates but they will insist that the DNC follow their same losing campaign strategies.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don't know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If the genocide-and-nothing-else wing knew how to run a campaign, we wouldn't have trump right now.
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don't want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris' chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
You wont nothing else. NOTHING. ELSE.
You're gloating that your garbage pro-genocide party only protects pro-genocide incumbents from challengers.
Your wing of the party prefers trump to ever stopping their genocide support. You got a candidate you are happy with: anyone who supports genocide for you.
Right wing by whose standards? There are a lot of Euro-centric folks who forget anti-capitalist= leftist is NOT universal.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it's not even worth arguing with these people. They've been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They've been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they've been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
Okay, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. I’ll leave you to it pal, have a good life.
You are politically illiterate
Them pretending that there is some international standard definition for what is right or left is hilarious. Typical Europeans to think the world revolves around them. They've never beaten the colonizer out of their minds.
They said they aren’t European. I susoect their education in political philosophy comes from non-academic sources as I see this specific Euro-centric claim frequently from those educated through memes and forums.
By the world's standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
Go troll elsewhere, you milk stain.
Wearing a bright color is considered extremely progressive in Afghanistan. These dudes really are just pretending Europe speaks for the world.
Exactly, what constitutes “progressive” and “conservative” are relative to their time and place. Mistaking what is true for Western Europe as being true for all is historically problematic.
How did Harris "do war crimes"? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they'll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
First, Harris is not part of "the left." Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can't even do that much is less than worthless; they're a liability.
Never said she was, but I am, maybe you are, as well as a lot of people in this thread who keep insulting each other.
See how this works?
how?
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
You'll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
Sure she did. BeHiNd ThE sCeNeS.
KHAMAAS!!!
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won't stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don't you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn't have sny right to self defence
It sounds so simple, it must really be simple.
It is simple to not go to an aipac event and not to promise uncondtional support.
Simple or not is beside the point anyway
It is
You sound so simple.
No it isn't. Do you also support sending weapons and money to Russia? Would you have supported it for Nazi Germany? Do you really not appreciate the insanity of saying "it's possible to oppose the holocaust while also supporting sending troops to guard the death camp!"
Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
Which is why you’re working with a national party that has a real chance of affecting change in America!
Um, which party was that, again?
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
Edited for the sake of civility.
American liberals absolutely do not know what they’re talking about at all but you do you, I see how well it’s been working so far.
Keep gloating that your only policy is supported by both parties.
Anybody who don't resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal
Is my buddy a war criminal because he didn’t give up his job with the Postal Service?
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
“Anybody who don’t resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal”
“You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments”
Im 100% positive that no one is dumber than the claims you have made back to back.
Nobody dumber than politician dick suckers like you
Post office delivery drivers are not government officials, dumbass
She and Biden were right wing war criminal though. Why is it crazy to acknowledge the truth? Because lying and pretending we can be friends with right-wing war criminals might help elect a right-wing war criminal that's not as insane as the right-wing war criminal that ended up getting elected?
Kamala and Biden said they don't care about voters who they've alienated by committing genocide. They knowingly caused such division, so they're all to blame for that. Trump being elected can fairly be blamed on them.
If she bursts out in laughter rejecting the notion of her having a socialist or progressive perspective; she probably isn't a leftist, left-leaning, or "center-left".
Yes, yes, Anyone who doesn't agree with centrists and their support of genocide and absolutely nothing else ever must be a scary foreigner. It explains why you support republican border policy. Don't want those anti-genocide furriners getting in and giving americans the idea that genocide isn't the only good in this world.
she definitely is both right wing and a war criminal. she supported genocide… isn’t much more obvious than that..
centrists want to keep supporting genocide without being called the only thing they have ever been.
She supported genocide exactly like you're doing here.
She wasn't a rightwing war criminal because she didn't have real power yet, but she was definitely an aspiring rightwing war criminal. Surprise surprise, materially supporting genocide is a war crime.
She did exercise power and influence. She herself confirmed she was actively involved in these decisions.
And as Biden’s border czar, she deported so many people that even Stephen Miller is struggling to keep pace with her numbers.
She should have resigned but no she accepted a poaition of complicity
Yeah but things are so much better for palestine under trump. larger munitions are essentially the same, not getting aid as the same as not getting enough. formal annexation of their land is the same as the status quo. This international relations equal war crime is so annoying.
So you agree that both supports genocide. Most people would not defend trump here
No.
nope.
Ok genocide supporter. You just mad that it is Trump who is continuing the grnocide instead of Harris. Anybody in position of power should be persecuted for genocide support including Trump
The munitions are the same size, and the starvation started under Biden. You’re just so brainwashed, it seems to have affected your senses.
What an incredible disappointment of generational proportion she was.
She didn't and as far as I know hasn't called it a genocide yet.
The smug look on her face just makes me want her to die.
Part of why she lost.
To say "we have trump because of you"... trump is trying to create an apocalypse on earth and kamala is the villain.
What’s your issue? Nothing about the statement is inaccurate. Though it is missing a lot of context, such as it was Clinton who ordered the pied piper strategy to elevate Trump to the nomination, so she shares a lot of the blame.
I don't think we're going to get someone to the left of Kamala for the next few presidents. All the protest voters helped our country choose hard mode, and a lot of them are trying to rationalize it in any way that doesn't make them feel like they played a part in such a close election.
We have Trump because more people voted for Trump, and lots of people didn't vote at all. You could blame Biden or Kamala, sure, but the entire political party could also be blamed, along with the establishment itself. Was Kamala the best candidate to run? Probably not. Biden decided to try for another term, though, and we ended up where we are.
When you can choose between the lesser of 2 evils, or not choose at all: be aware of what "not choosing" will actually do.
Then you're not going to win any elections for the next few presidents
"I'm so left win that I'll rather have trump than someone left of him"
Never change ml.
What they said is 99% republican cannot win against 100% republican because Republican policy is extremely unpopular with anyone who might vote democrat, therefore if they keep running moderates, they will continue to lose.
Idk how you got that shit, but if you need help comprehending anything else, just ask instead of whatever lead you to believe they support trump.
"I support the extermination of all Arabs; the only thing I care about is shedding the blood of foreign infants and there is nothing I wouldn't do to support the victory of the white race"
Never change .world
Incoherent
No, it's perfectly coherent, you're just still so angry about me calling your actually incoherent post incoherent that you're now stalking me around.
You'd rather have trump than someone to the left of you.
by "protest voters" you mean the ones that voted Kamala specifically to protest Trump?
Your comment is exactly why Hillary and Harris lost. Even now, you can't see that the compromise candidate will eventually fail, and continue to fail, because their values don't match the voters.
And hey, if you had written this comment before 2016, or even before 2024, we could understand your instinct. You might not have realized how the Dems' shift to the right would undercut the entire party. But now you should be able to figure it out. Take Harris's policies, for example. Which ones were going to benefit the average American? She was weak on Israel, her border strategy was xenophobic (and therefore racist), her home owner tax credit would not have lowered housing or rent prices for the vast majority of Americans... In other words, even if she got everything she wanted, would it have made our lives better? I just don't see it, and neither did hundreds of millions of Americans.
All it would take to be left of Harris is opposing genocide and unlawful deportations.
The problem is that you Blue MAGAs support fascism, too, but you believe yourselves better than the Red MAGAs because you like fascists with a commitment to decorum. And you project that onto the rest of us, so you think our rejection of these Democrats is simply a rejection of decorum. Just like the Red MAGAs, you cannot even conceive of any “good American” rejecting your party’s fascism. And probably, just like them, you don’t actually pay attention to the policies you’re really supporting. You just treat it like team sports.
We should never stop holding leaders responsible for their actions.
Misread it as "Hideo Kojima" at first and was confused.
She is absolutely right wing, but I don’t think she has ever had enough authority to be a war criminal.
That lady has a great voice for a punk band
She's just mad they called her right wing. She prefers being called a centrist war criminal
Because we're being brigaded by genocide supporters.
Your wing of the party is so devoted to netanyahu they preferred to lose to trump instead of telling him no.
You're not bitching because you got the genocide that is the only thing any centrist wants.
Centrists, to people they ignored and then retroactively blame.
Don't hide behind the minorities centrists throw under the bus every single chance they've ever had.
Watch out you're gonna get blocked 🤣
Dems saddled us with Trump and you're still making excuses for them because you're a spineless moron
Right because I voted for trump and not the only person positioned to stop him holding office again. We didn't pick Harris, we tried to pick not trump.
Do you know how an election works? The person with the most votes wins. Which means you have to, you know, vote. And if you don't, you make other people carry your weight. Likewe actual participating progressives are doing. 3 years of the cycle I work on reform, 1 year I accept the current reality.
Get off your couch. You guys fucked us.
You say, still relitigating the previous election a year later.
You stand for absolutely nothing, you deserve Trump and worse
genocide is something.
How's standing for not Harris working out for you? Stopped a genocide yeah? Alternate reality US going pretty good?
Purity testing is a good thing if you have standards, you're only mad because you know you won't pass
It's a bad thing if everyone has different criteria for "purity".
"Sure, it's great this guy is anti-genocide, but he once voted to restrict abortion rights".
The criteria is "don't support a fucking genocide" and clearly enough people agree on it that it cost her the fucking election, either that or we're a minority with no impact in which case it's not our fault dems lost anyway lol
Don't hide behind vulnerable minorities like your wing of the party doesn't throw them under the bus every chance it gets.
Will the memory of Palestinians dying keep you up at night? Or do you only care about people you personally know?
Lol I'm trans dumbass, you don't get to use my own identity and oppression to guilt me into voting for your dogshit party
Shaken? that nasty ghoul has no feelings
How brave of them to harass Kamala Harris while Nazi gestapo squads roam the streets of our major cities.
Fucking pusillanimous losers.
Cool, now do JD Vance and Trump.
E: Oh, will you look at that. The actual known troll got banned but I'm the one getting the boot by Lemmy. Never change.
“We took a super safe stance playing grown up protestor against a lady who doesn’t have any power anymore!
Protest Trump? We can’t do that, he has real power, he might fight back! Gestapo squads currently kidnapping brown people? la la la la I can’t hear you! We’re helping!”
"Kamala Harris doesn't behave in a ladylike way and that's naughty of her"
These are the people that helped the GOP and the billionaire class get Trump elected
The one on the stage? Yep.
Now, now. It's not like she campaigned with Liz Cheney... lol.
Fuckin failed state corporate dictatorship.
The traitors protesting
Hating genocide is treason to genocide supporters like you.
Too bad you'll get your way and the ceasefire won't last.
Shitlibs be like:
People who hate genocide try to minimize it.
These protestors and people like yourself helped Trump get elected and maximized the genocide while also supporting fascism.
People who hate genocide do not supoort anybody who support genocide supporters like Harris, Biden and Trump
And Putin and Xi.
We don't sell weapons to Putin or Xi.
Sure, i didn't mention them because i was talking in context of Israel genocide
As a result of that logic, Trump was elected, genocide was maximized, fascism took over and the US government moved further right.
No, idiot. Harris lost because she was bad on everything especially economy. Only 2% of the people had foreign affairs as their top issue which is split between people who care about Ukraine/Russia the most and people who cared about Palestine/Israel and from the very small subset who cared about Palestine/Israel we don't know how much cared because they support Palestine more or Israel more
Trump is the president now so why is it hard for Harris to admit her support for Israel and complicity in the genocide and apologies. She don't even care about people now she just want to sell a book. She doesn't seem to realize that if she don't join the fight with the people who elected her and are protesting Trump could be one of the first victim of a potential dictatorship by Trump or one of his successor
At least you didn't have to vote against genocide. Can you imagine voting against the only thing you live for?
By saying that the genocide you love more than anything is bad. You lost because the shitty candidate you worship supported the only thing you will ever love: murdering Palestinian children.
Progressives empowered Trump and as a result they amplified the genocide , supported a fascist takeover and ratcheted the US government further right.
More Palestinian children have suffered and many more will continue to suffer because of your decision.
Keep spamming your big lie.
Even fewer would have suffered if your garbage pro-genocide party had followed the law. But you hate the law when it means fewer dead Palestinians.
She lost because a bunch of idiots decided to stay home and not vote. She didn't do anything worth having Trump as the president. What a terrible look the folks in this video are projecting.