Framework flame war erupts over support of politically polarizing Linux projects
Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its fractious user community to live in a "big tent" after a Debian developer objected to the company's sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its political position with regard to these two projects.
Hyprland, a Wayland compositor, is led by a "toxic and hateful community," Beaupré observed, and Omarchy, a Linux distribution, comes from David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), a controversial figure in the Ruby and Linux communities.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/14/framework_linux_controversy/Open linkView original on lemmy.zip226
Comments180
This definitely had a negative impact on my view of framework, can't say I'd buy from them again.
Same. Considering sending an email to tell them this.
Already have, along with my concerns about the outsized money going to essentially DHH events.
Might even sell my FW, I don't think I want to be associated with the brand at all.
Which brands are acceptable to be associated with?
(I don't own one, and I'm not familiar with what other brands are available these days.)
A great question. MNT would probably be the best answer - open source hardware to create open source hardware, uses the fediverse, F/LOSS focused, no venture capitalists/investors, etc.
https://mntre.com/index.html
If we go most ethical option right now, I'd say its keeping the hardware you have running. Framework is far more niche, which is where it becomes a brand statement more quickly than, say, grabbing a used thinkpad and dropping linux on it.
Edit: Just to mention, I've been debating getting a Pocket Reform for myself of late. I might build my own though with some changes, and just get the board from them.
I’m amazed that they haven’t backtracked this yet. They’re just cool losing all those customers.
idk, looking at twitter, there seems to be a pretty good number of fascist techbros who are congratulating framework on this
i guess framework doesn’t mind the change in audience…
I mean, its twitter. Its almost entirely fascist tech bros there.
Bots pretending to be tech bros*
Twitter is basically millions of Groks in a trenchcoat at this point.
I don’t believe any kind of analysis that depends on measuring sentiment on social media given that it’s trivially easy to run hundreds or thousands of accounts on a 5 year old graphics card and some vibe coding.
Theyre not gonna, look at all the comments itt that are ok with giving money to transphobes
It irks me to no end that both here and in the framework community forum people will try to downplay just how awful DHH and their ilk are.
They'll never say that they don't mind supporting someone who's transphobic, or a nationalist, or a racist. Instead they'll just say that you need to separate the art from the artist, or that you're just engaging in "purity tests" or whatever other bullshit reason they can throw to absolve themselves from supporting objectively shitty people.
In the current political environment, it's profitable to have right-wing extremists alignments and they're aren't sigh, or even happy to be part of it.
If the sales fall, there would have been or will be a "southpark-sorry.gif"
Funny how that just keeps on happening?! Why can't we have left-wing extremism ever be profitable 😤
Because left wing extremism is anti-capitalist.
Because if you're out there grifting people for monetary gain, you're not really a leftist.
Left-wing podcasts churn huge amounts of money, Chapo Trapo House, Cool Zone Media etc... Individuals like Ibrahim X Kendi and the BLM project grafted away millions of dollars to buy mansions and luxury office space with do-nothing employees.
Left-wing has no issue making money. Rubes come in all political affiliations.
None of those are extremist though 😔
TL;DR for just updates since the initial story: Basically say that they believe Hyprland cleaned up after having an initial problem and totally ignores all the stuff about DHH, despite that seeming to be the biggest problem people had with what they've been doing.
being antifascist could only ever be "polarizing" if the person getting offended is an anti-antifascist aka a Nazi
I think it depends very much on what you think is fascism.
Lemmy users sometimes think using harch language is "fascism" because they are young and dont know what real fascism was like.
That being said, I havent read about what the Hyprland devs have been saying or doing, so sure, maybe they are bad people. I will go read about it now.
Edit: I looked into it and its not fascism, as usual. It seems to be the usual stuff that is being called fascism when its not. Its all about how they moderate their forum and how they talk to people there. This is not fascism. Treating people rudely is not fascism. Making bad jokes is not fascism either.
They may be dousches but we wont have another Stalin on our hands from this direction, dont worry. :)
FW is giving an openly racist and fascist person money for a project
That's what people care about. Not the moderation behavior of the project
Yeah but like I wrote, the definition of racist and fascist here is probably very stretched into silly levels. As usual on Lemmy and I guess other social media.
"Probably very stretched." "I guess"
Why not support right-wing goons as a default position when reading takes time and effort? Umberto who?
Just read the blog of DHH. It's not stretched at all
Hitler.
Stalin, for what he was, wasn't fascist.
Tech companies and preventable controversies: name a more iconic duo.
The weird thing for me is the financial support coming from Framework to Hyprland. It would be one thing if Framework was working with Hyprland to test compatibility and functionality on their machines and do specialized bug testing. They could kind of justify that from a purely technical stance.
But the fact that they picked a very niche project for no apparent reason to support with a significant monthly financial contribution is so strange. There are numerous other niche distros/projects that aren't mired in controversy that Framework could have worked with, (Alpine, Void, ElementaryOS, etc.) so why Hyprland/Omarchy?
Very disappointed. I've been pushing Framework computers very strongly for friends and family over the last year, plus I've been planning on getting one to replace my aging Thinkpad. Now I am going to hold off until the dust settles on this.
Omarchy uses Hyprland, so I guess they started by promoting Omarchy and maybe DHH asked them to sponsor Hyprland
Supporting Hyprland definitely looks like a mistake, they weren't aware of what went on around there.
They probably should have gone with supporting Niri and maybe Cosmic instead.
I agree, but then why would they not retracted their support? If it really was an honest mistake and they weren't aware of the situation, I would think they would apologize, explain that they didn't know, pull their support, and issue a statement about the kinds of values they want to promote in the FOSS world.
But instead, they have doubled down, the CEO himself. It's very strange and concerning.
Sort of.
They basically said they didn't know about the issues with hyprland, they recently looked into them and to them in looks like hyprland has changed enough to be supported.
But, they were silent on the DHH. That part is the serious concern.
Yes, them not saying anything why they support that hiterlite scum is quite concerning. I think the CEO is just mad he got caught trying to startup a Nazi bar
I love how they always portray projects like this as "politically polarizing". You look inside and it's always just plain old not-polarizing misogyny. Really shows where this "news" outlets stand.
The media has been complicit in all of this by sanewashing all of the insane shit that's constantly happening.
I'll admit I'm not up to date on the hyprland/vaxry lore -- but I don't understand the level of outrage based on this article...
I'm also not sure why the sponsorship of a software project is necessarily being treated as a 100% endorsement of both the maintainers and their alleged views.
I'm also not sure if infighting and purity testing will help the movement(s) right now. Once it's the norm, sure, but it's still a relatively fringe movement within the industry.
Edit (2025-10-15@20:14): At the time of writing my comment, I was both unaware (and uninformed) on the DHH side of this topic. While I still think the level of outrage is maybe a melodramatic, the push back seems more warranted than it initially seemed to me. I still don't know much about DHH beyond Rails (and even then, not much); but from what I've seen since my comment, the response is more understandable.
Most of the discourse was about Omarchy/DHH, not just Hyprland, though that was a part of it. It is not purity testing to block people who don't work well with others or are hateful like DHH from a community. If you want to bring people who want us dead into a community then everyone else is going to leave
The main problem is
You cant claim to be pro immigrant and pro lgbt when you actively invite white supremacists and transphobes into the community and then try to avoid responsibility for that by not commenting or not retracting support or not clarifying how you'd avoid it going forward
The project may not be political (it is) but the people who use and support the project definitely are. If you want to kick out the community by inviting Nazis, then all that will be left once those people leave will be nazis. And if you knowingly collaborate with Nazis, you are a nazi.
Because the "update" to the blog post was:
As a way to not talk about DHH/Omarchy directly, or the promotion they were doing (which was many times more than anything else they were talking about).
I'll admit, I only vaguely know of DHH by name and Rails, vaguely remember the Omarchy announcement, and that's about it. I seem to recall Prime referencing DHH's controversial opinions, but I can't say I've gone any deeper than that.
If the discourse really is primarily focused on DHH/Omarchy, then I guess I just misunderstood this post/title & the article...or just don't have the full context regardless.
if I dip a pH strip in my drinking water and it indicates my water is acidic, am I not entitled to stop drinking from that source because it failed my purity test?
Let's not confuse "entitled" with "justified". Of course you are legally entitled to boycott whatever you want, nobody seems to question that. The issue is whether or not you can be legitimately criticism for it.
Suppose that you had 20 glasses, you tested 4 of them and found that 2 were "too acidic". Are you then justified in drinking the other 18 glasses?
The reality is that you have probably personally supported people who are far more egregious than the subjects here. Abusers, murderers, rapists, etc... Is your support of them an endorsement of their actions? Is your/societies providing medical care to these people an endorsement of their actions?
No. We can parse between what actions we endorse and what actions we don't, because we are rational beings. Or rather some of us are.
it just sounds like you're bending over backwards to make trans and racialized people drink polluted water. and you're trying to convince the rest of us that the water is just fine actually because you have a reverse osmosis system installed (being cis or white)
No, I pointing out that the filters don't actually work.
Transphobic and racist behaviour isn't going to disappear just because you boycott it.
The consequences of bigotry aren't reading mean tweets, it's going to a job interview and having the prospective employer think "eww.. I don't like this candidate". Boycotting is not going to fix that, because your purity test can't even detect it.
I don't purity test people because the reality is that most/all people have some harmful notions, it's not productive or good for anyone to ostracize them so long as we can promote the good they do, and mitigate the harm.
if we're doing criticisms now, you're failing to do the most basic of revolutionary activities by deep-throating the Aryan boot instead of simply polishing it like a normal quisling should
I would never ever advocate for murdering people because Nazis aren't considered people. they decided to abandon their right to life by advocating for taking mine away
Þe comments devolved into flamewars, but it boils down to: if you take money I spend wiþ you and give it to people who want to oppress me, I'm going to stop buying your product.
Þe issue isn't Framework using Hyprland or Omarchy; it's þat þey're giving computers and money - material support - and moral support by talking þose projects up in social media (especially Omarchy).
Þere's a big difference between using FOSS led by a politically controversial figure, and sending the figure money. Especially when þat money derives from customers said figure openly claims to want to oppress.
Yeah, sometimes its not practical avoiding certain projects (see fucking JavaScript), but promoting and funding is a major barrier and red flag...
Offtopic, but whats up with the cyrilic looking character you are using? Is it to fuck with bots or something else entirely?
It's the thorn character
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
Bonus: In printing, the Y character was often used as a stand in instead of creating a dedicated thorn printing plate. So places named 'Ye Old Shoppe' the 'Ye' is actually 'The'
Þis is one of my favorite TIL for þis past year, and it's all þanks to thorn!
If I'm mot mistaken, it's a cool character English USED to have for the "th" sound. Would be neat if it came back, if that's the goal 👀
Using thorn in English is a pathetic bid to appear smart.
I dunno, personally I þink it's just fun to use. :3
-- Frost
Weird way to say that you haven't heard of yinglets.
If we deleted everything written by insufficiently pure developers, we wouldn't have a Linux desktop. Especially if we count the ones that were smart enough to not bring up anything political in public.
Not a fan of DHH, but then you delete Rails then there's no GitHub, GitLab, Mastodon, and many many other things given how popular Rails is, and that's just that one guy.
If you include all the sketchy stuff that happens in the supply chain mining the minerals, processing, assembly all the way up to the final computer product, you just can't morally justify supporting any manufacturer either.
This really doesn't do anything useful other than feeling good to not support one of those guys. If anything it just adds extra political drama that feeds into a much bigger worldwide division problem.
@Max_P @stewie410 This is just wrong. Taking a stand against things like this causes change for the better in the long run. Rails will survive without DHH, like Linux survived without Reiserfs and MySQL survived after Larry Ellison. There may be some pain involved, but we owe it to ourselves to tread the better path, and make bad people just socially unacceptable.
See also: javascript and Eich
Ah, to live in a world without JavaScript and weird, Nazi crypto dipshits 🥰
As I added in another comment, I misunderstood the DHH element of the discourse as I, admittedly, don't know much of anything about him -- I've heard some references here and there, but that's about it.
That's also fine, and I generally agree. My concern basically boils down to killing momentum by sinking a company with (probably?) sane views on right-to-repair & libre as topics.
If the goal of a boycott is to starve the company until it goes under, because they made a move we don't like -- then that I don't really like in this context. If the goal is to force their hand towards at least transparency, or maybe force NP to step down; then I'd support that.
The people who pretend that they can keep politics out of their life are always the people who are benefiting from the current political system. Nobody else in the world is so ignorant.
Definitely, but there's a middle ground between "let's pretend politics doesn't exist", and "you must 100% agree with my views or I'll cancel you".
Sure, but maybe that middle ground is pretty far from supporting people who believe things like the problem with Britain is that it is no longer sufficiently white and active steps should be taken to fix this?
The developers of those projects would have just chosen a different language if Rails never existed.
(Imagines a timeline where absolutely everything is still written in PHP)
Oh hell no
It was a yellow flag when Framework invested heavily into an affordable non-repairable, non-upgradable desktop designed for AI developers. "Let them make money," they said, as Framework positioned itself as a Trojan Horse to the ubiquitization of harmful AI.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I was saving up for a Framework 16, but I'll just stick with my Thinkpad and get the next Steam Deck for gaming. It's really a shame that such an important company would support transphobia and white supremacy, not just rhetorically but financially, as Hyperland gets ₤600 a month from them and DHH gets ₤24,000 via Rails.
I know this will be a controversial take since Framework is so beloved, but that is just how I personally will choose to spend my money.
I agree with your conclusion and I abhor Framework promoting either of these two projects.
But the APU in the desktop has, I suspect, a real reason for having nonreplaceable RAM. If I understand correctly, they can't achieve 8000 mt/s memory speed or the wider memory bus with replaceable RAM. And since that memory is shared with the GPU, that speed becomes important for gaming or other GPU tasks. Hence why 6400 mt/s seems to be the max memory speed for a lot of the zen5 desktop chips, at least in prebuilts
I have that chip in my laptop (the "AI" Max Pro 395+) and I don't ever use it for LLM shit. It's a very performant and efficient CPU, and shockingly good for gaming too.
So even tho I hate the "ai" branding it's actually a very very good CPU and GPU
Framework tried to design a version that worked with SODIMM with AMD but the performance was seriously hampered, and the plan was dropped.
yeah, like... They genuinely tried.
I got several beefs with framework, but this isn't one of them.
What I'm hearing is that Framework chose power over user-replaceability, and that really seems to go against their mission. The specs sheet on the Framework Desktop is something par for the course with another company.
I don't doubt that the Desktop is good for LLMs and gaming, but that's beside the point for me personally.
Kindof amusing to see people call "purity testing" on people who object to someone who's quoted as being upset by checks notes a lack racial or ethnic purity.
[Sarcasm] C'mon everyone, can't we just get along and hold hands with racists and other people who consider the rest of us subhuman? As long as what they're doing doesn't bother me personally you're all overreacting and fragmenting this
nazi barcommunity!Edits: fiddling with phrasing :-\
It's called the tolerance of intolerance.
People here complaining about purity testing even though really it's just poison testing.
The standard isn't even if it's pure in ideology it's to test is not poisonous.
The problem here isn't that Framework failed to keep track of the ideology espoused by every major developer on the projects they contributed to or endorsed, which, to be honest, isn't something I'd expect of them. The problem (as usual for a corporation) is how they handled complaints. Trying to sweep stuff under the rug in the Internet age just results in someone setting the rug on fire. If instead, Framework's response had been "We're sorry, we didn't know, we won't give money or free advertising to any projects this guy is involved with from now on," the whole mess would have died down by now except for a few people grumbling about how they should do more research before sending money out.
I don't buy from fascist supporters if I can help it. Screw Framework
its because tech companies are generally so out if touch with their userbase
Context for those OOTL
DHH Is Way Worse Than I Thought
Well, u should watch Kurt Caz on youtube. Checkout London, Barcelona, Brussel. Then tell me that there isn't a problem going on. Racism is not to be defended, but you can't just call everything racism when countries are going to shit.
But is the reason these countries are "going to shit" race related? And what exactly does "going to shit" mean?
Since you referenced Kurt Caz, a notorious racist and xenophobe, I'm guessing your answer is yes and "less white", but us adults in the room wonder about the real issues and their causes.
"Us adults" lol. Look at crime statistics. A certain minority causes a disproportionate amount of the crimes. Look I'm not white myself, and not all immigrants are bad. But lately EU has had a lot of problems because of refugees and migration. Housing shortages, increase in crime. It isn't just black and white. There is more nuance to it than too far right and being racist, and being too far left and ignoring that there are problems caused.
As for Kurt I only know him walking around in favelas hahah, so whoops not the best example. But his videos do show the growing problems in cities
You are being fed BS. There are no crime statistics that show this once you actually look at the data in an unbiased way, but there are a lot of people which present the data in ways that are easy to misunderstand (on purpose).
Possibly, no one is immune to propaganda. And I might be completely off by linking it to increase in migrations etc. But it's getting less appealing to be walking around alone at night in the major European Cities.
Why less appealing? There is no increase in crime or anything else that makes that less appealing (other than that a lot of small shops closed during the pandemic or are being priced out by real-estate speculators), you really need to stop believing the lies these social media influencers feed you.
Take the train to Brussel and let me know how you find it
Given you're regurgitating bullshit that could be disproven by a child, yeah, you're not an an adult.
mfw europeans are hitlerite
Grouping a whole folk as hitlerite, that's quite hypocritical good sir
you had no problem grouping a whole folk as problematic but suddenly when its about you now you have a problem with it?
No i dont and just because my opinions are stupid that shouldn't mean that you can be hypocritical. I am stupid and know it, but you pointing out blame and doing it yourself is just funny
Then why are you expecting me to be any better if you don't want to stop yourself here and begin the introspection?
Somehow you want people to read your arguments and change their opinion but when people ask you to do the same you just declare you are stupid and refuse to do the very thing that you expect others to do?
correct, if u want to take the moral highground u can't be contradicting urself. Im not here to convince anyone, besides why would i document my whole introspection here? Maybe my opinion has changed after engaging on this post. That's what internet forums are for, u say stupid stuff then someone corrects u and u can adjust your views. No need to type it out, unless u want to be my therapist
Already DHH take it easy.
https://youtu.be/6SOXLfbgAZ4
Last I visited, Barcelona was beautiful and the people living there adored it. London isn't terrible either, although housing is extortionate due to 'investors' and landlords
There's a scene in The Good Place where they find nobody goes to heaven anymore because every act they do, no matter how much they're trying to do good, has a lot of negative baggage attached which nobody could track and that counts as a sin of the person anyway.
That old dude getting bullied by the kid was pretty impactful for me. I felt like going full TJ Miller in silicone valley and slapping the little shit and telling him to get me some Adderall.
Here‘s my take as a relatively tech savvy guy with no introspective into the Linux scene and its political affiliation: I’ll buy framework products because of the repairability and upgradability as long as I can run whatever I want on it.
Most consumers that are sustainability minded (like myself) have no clue what hyprland or omarchy is.
I’m sure it’s a big deal within a small niche but the average consumer won’t know or care.
literally how fascists make their money
But now that you are aware but you choose to bury your head in the sand. Okay…
We already know people like you already made up your mind. What's the point of this comment? Was this post going to stop you?
To be honest i just read some abbreviations and terms i dont understand and I really do not have the time to go down the rabbit hole.
I just wanted to add a viewpoint to the discussion that the potential commercial target group larger is than the bubble in which some of the people here seem to be. I find this legitimate.
Framework has directly and indirectly supported devs that are far right, one much more hard right than the other, but both are far right.
The direct is money. Indirect is marketing.
You don't really need to dig into anything here, those two sentences sums up the entire situation.
Thanks for the clarification. In the face of modern debates there is only black and white - if you’re not like us, surely you’re like them. I don’t find it cool that they support right ideologies.
I’m against it and I will keep it in mind for future consideration, but supporting the right surely is not the extent of the things they have done or what they are actively doing.
Where there’s light, there’s shadow and the message for right to repair and their exemplary designs for repairability also has an impact on society as a whole.
I can find it shitty that they support people who I disagree with ideologically and great that they make repairable and sustainable products.
I absolutely agree that its great that they support the right to repair. That is, to me, what makes the response here so disappointing.
I personally do not want my money to feed the far right, and the simple fact is, that is where a portion of framework purchasing is going. These are not projects where there is a person or two within a large group who are far right, but projects where they are the project fundamentally. What throws me as well is the choice of Hyprland (financially) and Omarchy (marketing - heavy, heavy marketing). Even more odd, DHH again with Rails World with an alarming amount of money - five times what they gave to the Linux Foundation, double what they gave to Gnome, 2.5 times what they gave to the Linux Vendor Firmware Service, 50 times what they gave to the Open Hardware Summit, 12 times what they gave to KDE Akademy and DebConf.....
Writing that out makes it feel even weirder. Rails World. How in the hell does Rails World even fit in with what Framework does?
It isn't just supporting a few shitty people in a mix of other things, its far outsized support.
Oh, I guess I’ll look into it then. Thank you for writing it up!
https://frame.work/blog/framework-sponsorships
This is the blog post where you'll see the money. DHH is Omarchy and Rails, Vaxry is Hyprland. Hyprland got, functionally, a pittance, and Vaxry (while on the right) I don't personally see as being anywhere near as terrible as DHH.
If you want to know about DHH, rather than read articles, you can look at his blog directly. - https://world.hey.com/dhh. Scan the titles of posts and you'll find his positions pretty quickly, and you can read the posts themselves where he references the white replacement conspiracy theory and more.
Reminder Right-wingers are pro-capitalist & capitalists are anti right-to-repair
Plenty of right wingers get one thing right, and being able to repair something isnt inherently anti-capitalist either.
Edit: To quote someone I just saw on the FW forum, who is 100% a DHH supporting right winger:
They see the main object as saving money. Which... is really funny to me, because the most cost effective would be to sell your whatever laptop after a few years and buy new, framework is nowhere near a cost effective choice.
But anyway.
I would agree if they weren't FUNDING Nazis. That's coming out of the cost of your laptop buddy
Wait is Vaxry really a fascist? I always got weird vibes over on discord server( I was one of the earliest adapters to Hyprland). I did hear some transphobic allegations, but I thought that was it and Vaxry went on to implement stricter moderation?
If so, that really sucks. Hyprland is probably the best Wayland Window manager.
Cool well if they did lmk if this is a fake controversy
DHH is such a shit heel.
Does anybody have a source of the direct sponsorship to Obarchy. All I found was a couple of Twitter posts.
I detailed it out in comments elsewhere, but Omarchy was not directly financially supported. It did receive outsized promotion (not just a few twitter posts), but the real telling part is in events.
Rails World (where DHH was the keynote speaker) received more than DebConf, KDE Akademy, Open Source Hardware Summit, the Linux Foundation, and the Linux Vendor Firmware Service combined.
For a hardware company, thats kinda weird. Hackaday Supercon and Hack Club were the only ones to receive more than RailsWorld. Hackaday makes clear sense, and I would say Hack Club does as well. Rails World though? How?
And one more bit to note - nrp has acknowledged that FW provided DHH with equipment, but oddly, that was left off the list, despite listing others such as 1 unit to Nixcon, 3 units to LabsCon, and 2 to RISC-V International.
Looks like they didn't sponsor Omarchy, but they did promote it on their twitter a couple of times: https://x.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1960029405067313546
Mostly right, it was also far more than anything else brought up by FW twitter, but there was financial support in hardware as well (mentioned by nrp, and oddly enough, not detailed in the blog post).
As well as one other item (quoting myself here):
Sometimes I hear that counts as 'evidence', here.
I don't support the views of the endorsed projects, but surely a better reaction would be to suggest alternatives instead of just screaming for outright dismissal? I keep reading that "omarchy is just a bunch of scripts" and "hyperland is just one tiling window manager". If that's the case, there probably are better alternatives no? Or if it's as easy as described why not fork it?
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is not productive, IMO
FTFY
And yeah, Framework is one of the few manufacturers designing specifically for Linux compatibility and repairability, and omarchy/hyprland Devs are apparently shitty people. If you think they shouldn't be associated, suggest a different project not run by (possibly) literal Nazis instead of foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently... doesn't seem that difficult.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests. They can't unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
I don't think we should work with scum like DHH and vaxry just because some asshole lib might accuse us of purity tests
If "not working with people who are maniacs who want you dead" is a purity test I'm dusting off my Inquisition book
The entire ecosystem is full of purity tests. You don't have a CoC? Must be a Nazi! Don't use the right license? Probably a capitalist! You use systemd? Must be a Apple insider! You don't use systemd? Fuck off you troglodyte. Oh my you said "no politics"? Definitely a lib! What's that 🏳️🌈 flag? OMG what a woke commie.
Everyone draws the line somewhere else. Just because you draw it at DHH doesn't mean you're better.
TL;DR;
It's weird to be upset at people for having personal boundaries/morals/ethics.
Using "purity test" like a pejorative, because using a more accurate term makes your argument sound bad, is a bad faith approach.
You say "purity tests" like it's some sovcit term imbued with magical powers, like DEI or woke.
Headcanon replace it with "personal ethics and morals" and you might see how some of those arguments are really just people having boundaries.
An example of what i mean.
vs
See how the rest of that statement sounds without the bad faith, magic-word interpretation ?
I'm not expecting any good faith arguments in response, so don't worry, this was a just-in-case kind of thing.
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there. Should I just do the same with yours and we'll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I'm sure that would be in your interpretation of "good faith".
But don't worry, I don't expect a coherent response. This was a just-in-case kind of thing 😉
I mean, yes... that is what i did... i explained as i did it.
Was this a preface to actually doing this? is there a part of the text missing ?
Yep, here we go. I'm a nazi now 🙄 This is exactly how you edge people out. You're just the another flavor of "everything I don't like is wOkE" but instead "everything I don't like jNaZi!".
Nobody's in the middle. There's no nuance. You're either on my side or you're an enemy. Life's just that simple.
I firmly believe there are ways of being a centrist without being a Nazi. Hell, I believe you can be a pre-Trump-era Republican without being a Nazi. But there are also fascists who self-identify in these factions, and they benefit from the smokescreen of the "Everyone I don't like is a Nazi" fallacy of argument. There is nuance. I can't help but feel that you're projecting.
Ethnic cleansing and its supporters are definitionally fascists though, and I don't believe organizations should support those people. And David Heinemeier Hansson, like the Nazis, is a fascist. And I find it suspect and disturbing that people are referring to that as purity-testing.
If your default is equating "centrist" to "nazi", then I wonder what kind of experiences you had but it's so far from mine that it's pointless to continue this.
Not my default, but okay, you're clearly bad faith. I'm done. Goodbye.
"You don't agree with me? Must be a Nazi" / "You don't agree with me? Must be woke"
👍
Meanwhile in reality:
"Why are all these people calling me a nazi, I just think nazi's should receive funding is all!"+
👍
Y'know, knowing that you live in DACH, I can't help but read this as sour grapes: if only you were allowed to be more fascist, but those mean old online communists just won't let you!
I don't even understand what the article said! Bro we are cooked so bad with politics.
Yeah, cause people like you want to pretend that everything isn't political.
Enjoy your modular laptop with the Nazi takeover. So glad you're above it all. Tell us the aromatic profile of your flatulence again.
Relax men! I put limit on politics and where I use it, because on the end I will have no life.
Politics in my [insert literally fuckin anything]? It's more likely than you think!
everything is political. anyone who says different is shitting themselves or selling you something.
That was literally the point lol
i wasnt disagreeing with you
being kind is actually not political. By definition if someone hates people for anything other than what they do or say.. then its the person who creates the political cloud.
People have opinions. More news at 11
The opinion being debated: "is transphobia bad?"
Can you link me to the transphobia? Is it this? https://world.hey.com/dhh/bad-therapy-08849dc9
Yes obviously lol
edit: this transphobe's been banned from blahaj so I can't reply if they do
It's not obvious to me. Which bit is transphobic exactly?
I'd assume the transphobic part is where DHH goes to bat for Shrier, who is transphobic, and he's glad that she's overcome the "censorship mob". Oh and also the part where he recommends people read said transphobic author's book.
Do you need to be spoonfed any more? The blog post isn't that long.
Imagine the downfall of framework being the donations made to some obscure (tankie?) dev that a part of the community does not agree with. This toxic "holier than thou" attitude of the linux community leads to fragmentation and will be the doom of the linux phone project too, I swear. Someone will find an obscure package developed by an asshole/tankie/nazi/whatever and will rage about how the project is now immoral because the project devs support it and insist on a public boycott. Why do some people seem to be unable to separate the software from the developer? Framework or the software dev is not your friend. Is their hardware/software decent and open? Cool, then keep using it, tankie devs be damned, or at least fork it and make your own morally pure version. But this endless bickering over what devs support will lead to nothing good.
completely ignores that its about the donations and not "just" using their software.
Letting shit slide will lead to nothing good.
Nah
Man, humans are cooked when there's still so many idiots like you who think "assholes who specifically think certain people aren't people / should live" is just normal assholery.
Yeah, I'm sure that'll definitely lead to a peaceful path, bub.
I just fucking hate libinput and wish we had better driver options. I am about to switch back to Gnome from Hyperland just because I need to not tab 400 times to get to a field with no mouse or touchpad. God what a shit show.
Yeah good luck with that. The righteous left doesn't want empathetic coexistence with alternative views any more than the immoral right does.
DHH has fairly normal right wing views. Nobody has been able to point me to anything so objectionable that should mean he is excluded from the community. The worst I could find is that he thinks it would be better if London was predominantly native British, which I don't think is an out-there idea.
These inclusive communities have to learn to be more actually inclusive. It's ok to ban him if he's harassing people due to their political views in the Ruby community, but it looks like all he did was post some moderately right-wing views on his blog.
Not going to hold my breath though.
I don't know anything about the Hyprland guy but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story.
https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-thought/
If ethnic cleansing constitutes "fairly normal right-wing views," then right wingers have no place in polite, civil society because they support a violent, genocidal ideology bent on destroying Western Civilization. How can we have empathetic coexistence, for example, in a government that forcably disappears legal non-white immigrants and sends them to labor camps via federally funded masked thugs operating in unmarked vans? How can anyone peacefully coexist with a group that only wants to make space in society for white Americans and is willing to achieve those ends violently and extralegally?
It didn't used to be this way. Right-wingers can go back to peaceful coexistence when they put aside the supremacist and nationalist viewpoints and return to advocating for low taxes and small government without excluding entire groups of people. But make no mistake, the Right -- the intolerant ones -- have to change first. The fact that you think that this is "normal" is a chilling indictment of modern society. At this rate, in 10 years you'll think unelected leaders, concentration camps and death by firing squad is "normal" too.
Thanks for posting the blogpost -- when I checked this thread originally (and the article), I seemed to have missed the focus on DHH. Admittedly, I just don't know much about him -- though, I'm starting to get an idea why this blew up so much.
Damn I had no idea it was the Ruby-on-Rails creator everyone was talking about. I just finished making my portfolio in Ruby-on-Rails wth...
I don't coexist with people who literally want my friends and loved ones (and people I don't even know, because it doesn't really matter) dead.
Good policy, but where did he ever say that?
what does "London not being like 90s" mean to you?
Yeah that would be reasonable if he actually did want to hang black people from trees.
He's literally spreading "great replacement" rethoric. If you can't see his racism, I got news for you.
Isn't "great replacement" a conspiracy that this is a deliberately plan by ethnic minorities? I don't see him claiming that anywhere.
His numbers are suss but the demographic change in London is dramatic (not as much as he claimed but still). Hopefully Wikipedia is an acceptable source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnic_makeup_of_London_over_time_in_age_groups.gif
So you do think the great replacement is happening, it just isn't intentional. About those news...
If you're asking if I know how to read a chart on Wikipedia, the answer is yes.
Reading a chart and understanding it are different things, a further different thing is understanding what it means in context.
This is a good book for learning the ins and outs of how to understanding statistical data in general.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics
It does come at it through the lens of intentionally deceptive practices but It's a good general introduction as well.
Ah, is it time to play dumb already?
If that doesn't sound racist to you, I have bad news for you.
No I don't think it's racist to want to live in a city that is predominantly occupied by similar people to you. I think his stats are wrong - London is still mostly British people (at least it was when I last went). But imagine if it was like 95% Indian people. That would a huge change and a big cultural shift and yes I think it's ok to object to that with instantly becoming racist.
Interesting choice of words.
Given that I've never seen you in the Ruby, Rails, or Sinatra communities, I'm going to guess that you aren't actually part of this conversation. Also, you've been fairly obvious in your cryptofascism since this Lemmy instance was set up; you're one of several users that have ensured that programming.dev has a fairly bad federated reputation, and I'm not sure that anybody really cares whether you're included given that you don't appear to publish Free Software or anything else useful.
Wow first time I've been accused of fascism! Quite riduclous.