Air traffic controllers who duck unpaid work during the gov't shutdown could be fired, Duffy warns
https://apnews.com/article/duffy-air-traffic-controllers-shutdown-19d17aa18e15578e7aec60f409248e96Open linkView original on lemmy.world384
Comments126
And replace them with… whom, exactly?
Reagan fired the air traffic controllers without bothering to think that through, and aviation in the USA is still suffering the after-effects of that as the workers that were trained up to fill those gaps now all retire at the same time. I don't doubt the Republicans would make the same mistake twice, especially given that these ones are far stupider than Reagan's people.
Probably harder to fill this time. It's a hell of a lot easier to be an ICE scab than an ATC scab.
Well folks did elect Trump twice... so there is that.
I still don't believe that trump won against Harris. So imo they didn't vote for hin twice.
I mean I think it was valid Trump was pretty consistent in his votes over all three elections. The Dems had a spike during Biden and a crash during Haris. The truth is the left just couldn't be bothered to keep him out a second time.
'The left' liberals didn't vote for Harris. I mean the left didn't either, but the reason Harris lost was because of standard ol liberals choosing not to vote for brown George w bush.
From what I saw, through the stuff on the internet, the White-supremacists were solidly Trump, the male-supremacists were solidly Trump, AND Trump used a voter-deregistration law, through some local Republicans, to remove Democrats from voting-rolls, in key swing-states.
AND many Democrats refused to vote.
When all 4 of those come together, then you have the real basis for the result that happened.
sigh .. yet-again, journalism got disappeared off the internet, in order to prevent any accountability or leverage-causing-necessary-change..
Neither DuckDuckGo nor Google can find the journalism I'd read about that voter-deregistration having already been used as a partisan weapon, with the obvious consequence that it can be used again to immense effect, in 2026 & 2028.
Welcome to the for-profit-only "reality" we live-in..
( I'm going to be saving offline-copies of all such journalism, from now on, because of this bullshit.
Without knowing history, it isn't possible to be competent to avoid re-enacting it!
This ISN'T it, but it gives some similar information: https://newrepublic.com/article/199247/transcript-trump-lets-slip-dark-truth-plot-rig-midterms )
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Not that it is journalism, but I've noticed comment sections have mostly disappeared, as well. Sure, papers can claim it costs money and they have to moderate, etc....but I found it very interesting, for example, that just before the 2024 election, The Denver Post decided to close its comment section for good.
I've seen it in various smaller papers, too.
And especially since the goal of our enemies is to make America devolve into chaos, and the collapse of the airline industry would go a long ways in accomplishing that objective.
And their treasonous MAGA lackeys are happy to help.
The airline industry is much bigger now. More flights happening.
Republicans (and people in general, TBH) don't make the same mistake twice.
They make it 6 or 7 times, at least.
Fucking boomers
It's actually not the boomers who elected Reagan. It was their parents and the generation that immediately followed them. Boomers, that is the actual baby boom generation (born 1946 to 1955), voted overwhelmingly against Reagan.
I disagree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers
In 1980, it was kinda close, 45v44 (18-21yo) and 44v44 (22-29yo), but I wouldn't say they were "overwhelmingly against". By 1984 they seemed quite in favor of him. They had help, no doubt, but they were not largely against; marginally against at most.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election
This is an incomplete picture. Because it's from exit polls it only accounts for those who actually voted. It doesn't take in to account at all those who abstained. And it doesn't list by generation just by 10-year increments. And generations don't fall into neat 10-year increments. At that point in time boomers were anywhere from 20 to 35.
Abstained? You mean helped Reagan win? How'd that strategy work out?
False. Behold, arithmetic!
1980 election
Age (DOB) Range
18-21 (1962-1959) =3
22-29 (1958-1951) =7
30-44 (1950-1936) =14
45-59 (1935-1921) =14
60+ (1920-past)
1984 election
Age (DOB) Range
18-24 (1966-1960) =6
25-29 (1959-1955) =4
30-49 (1954-1935) =19
50-64 (1934-1920) =14
65+ (1919-past)
What they lack is a neat cutoff at 1945.
No one is doing that.
Wikipedia:
More arithmetic! 1964-1946=18
1945-1960. Sure. Seems a breath away from a neat ten year increment, but sure.
Doesn't stop them from sucking his cadaverific cock nowadays though, frankly if they had come out swinging against him more aggressively there wouldn't have been nearly as many issues nowadays.
K, but you could say that for any voting generation.
Id say it's far more serious with the Boomers as a whole, pretty sure nobody is sucking Wilson's fucking corpse cock.
My parents were boomers and they (and all their boomer friends) fucking hated Ronnie Raygun. It definitely was not all boomers.
The most-important 2 books on understanding US politics, is Woodard's "American Nations", on the 11 nations inhabiting North America, & how they are stable, once instantiated,
& Thom Hartmann's "Screwed", on what real national-prosperity is ( I've only read the beginning of that, & it's the 1st-time I've understood what's wrong with normal "economics", as presented by everybody else ).
IF one looks carefully, as Woodard did, one can see that the votes follow specific counties that are culturally-aligned, in these 11 nations.
It isn't "all boomers", rather, it is in the Tidewater region, votes went this-way, in the New York region, votes went that way, in Yankeedom, they went this other way, etc..
The book "The Big Sort" is on how polarization is self-creating the ultimate only-political-monocultures US of A.
That, of course, is going to make the US's Civil War Part2 be .. more territorial in its ideological-basis, .. ( & that has implications, too ), but .. it's still down to regional-cultures defining/controlling the US's fate.
Woodard's book is sooo important, that I wouldn't consider moving anywhere in North America without seeing which culture was ruling that county, now.
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Thanks for the book recommends. I think I've heard Thom mention his book(s) before, including that one, when listening to his podcast, but I never heard of the other. Just tracked down the audiobook and started listening...
Microsoft Copilot.
I mean it is in the name!
Microsoft flight simulator
You joke, but Elon will already have claimed that his AI can do the job
ChatGPT, of course! What's the worst that could happen?
Maybe they didn't think this through...
Guaranteed they didn't
Ai
Still cant take orders successfully at drive throughs, much less do one of the most dangerous, dynamic, and complicated jobs known to humanity.
It's been proven to work for robo-fighters ( air-superiority fighters ), in simulations ( they had a competition between fighter-AI's, & 1 of them did win, & the fights were proper, the way human fighter-pilots would have done them ).
Narrow-context AI works: it's the deep-vast context AI that doesn't work..
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Reagan did it in 1981 and it didn't cause a collapse. 11000 air traffic controllers went on strike and Reagan fired all of them. This is arguably what started the decline of unions in the US.
It was fucked up then, and it would be even more fucked up now, but in reality the industry would move on pretty quickly. Hopefully the people would rise up in response, but I'm not holding my breath.
It nearly did cause a collapse and the industry has never recovered. ATC has been a critically understaffed industry since before you were born.
The people "rose up" during BLM protests for over a year in the streets. Systematic change? Nope. Black people any safer now? Nope. All those protests did was hold exactly ONE fucking cop accountable. That's it. We're fucked and I hate saying that. Still going to do my part, but it's like the ship has been sinking since before I was even born...
We aren't fucked until we're dead, my friend. Fight until the end. Never make it easy for them.
Write on every inch of the toilet paper. They can't have that. It's ours.
"It's small and it's fragile and it's the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us"
I'm sure everyone would love that and would wholeheartedly support that decision. No blowback whatsoever.
If there's blowback, blame the people causing the problem (elected Republicans), not the workers impacted by it.
Strikes and not showing up for unpaid work are meant to piss people off. People don't change shit when they're getting what they want already.
It's really that simple.
In theory that could work, but when they all get fired, again, and replaced with military air traffic controllers, Trump will look like he saved the day.
Demanding slave labor by threatening to loose you from your master if you refuse to cooperate is a strange take.
Threatened to be fired from unpaid, highly specialized and stressful work? Sounds like relief rather than a threat.
They were just taking time off from being unpaid, but yeah, lets push them to quit permanently! Itll only take 2-3 years to replace every single one of them that quits. Who cares if planes crash and people die in the meantime? Im sure there will be plenty of people clamoring to become ATCs seeing how this plays out
We'll just have Elon's Hitler-aspiring Grok run everything and prioritize flights based on how Jewish the passenger names sound
This Duffy needs to recognize these people are to be prized not humiliated. What a total TrumpTurd.
They didn't get here with logic.
Lol go ahead and fire them. That will definately help the shortage of controllers!
FORCING people to Work UNPAID is PROOF that Trump is the MOST Pro Worker president EVER!
Killing it yet again I see
get that man a nobel peace prize. /s
Nobel Piece of Shit Prize
Hahahaha ok. Tell that to any employment lawyer.
That is called alavery, or indentured servitude at best. Kinda frowned upon.
Reagan set the precedent in the '80s. ATCs can be summarily fired ever since Reagan broke their union
Seriously, most people still have no idea how evil Reagan really was. He did a lot of damage to this country that led to the situation we are in now.
Reagan was just following the well trodden path that Jackson and Wilson blazed, and Nixon trimmed the edges.
The only reason that I put Jackson into a tie with Wilson for worst president is that Wilson did far more long term damage, but Jackson orchestrated The Trail of Tears, and several other genocides, as well as paid off the national debt entirely. This helped contribute to the longest and deepest (by percentage, not dollar amount) depression the country has ever seen.
You do understand the current president has now easily taken the "worst" spot, though.
AngryCommie and your position are both correct, and yet worse is to come.
He's doing his damndest. He's still barely in the #3 slot.
Regan's lawyers that were pissed he couldn't do what he wanted were involved in 2000's election bullshit and are currently sitting on the supreme court
Killer Mike knows
And how did that work out?
Not well, but it doesn't seem that outcomes matter to our "legal system," as much as precedent set by conservative judges.
Reagan was a monstrous piece of shit but even a lot of dems love him. I suppose because a lot of dems are now to the right of 80s republicans.
Yeah because the US is just swarming with qualified air traffic controllers hoping to get to work in their place if they're fired. /s 🙄
... hoping to work in their place for free
They are desperately short workers, even in the best of times, so their response is to fire the few workers they have from one of the most notoriously stressful jobs on the planet?
What is more likely to happen is that they will fire controllers loudly and publicly, lose every single lawsuit, be forced to rehire them, which they would have done anyway because they need them so badly, except they will also pay all back pay, also significant damages, an enormous fine, and if the employee is smart, they'll demand an enormous raise in pay to return.
And the MAGA Nazis deserve it.
Now that's an efficient government!
/s
The party of fiscal responsibility and reduction of waste right there for ya.
I hope it is here like it is and all those kids shows that I watch growing up, the bad guy always loses because of their idiocy and arrogance.
"And I would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for you meddling Liberals!"
And your stoner dog....
Yeah, this is just gonna lead to less efficient air traffic control, more congestion, eventually fewer flights, higher expenses, and less people flying over cause they just can’t fucking afford it.
Doesn’t really affect any of the ruling class because they have enough money to use private jets.
When’s the last time any of these assholes actually sat in economy class seat?
All members of the government should be prohibited from every taking a private flight, as well as flying first class. They should have to fly in a regular coach seat, and put up with whatever heckling they get, or drive.
A private flight is a totally undisguised bribe. Accepting any transportation from anyone should result in mandatory prison time.
Considering the bullshit that Clarence Thomas, a Supreme Court Justice, has gotten away with; who the fuck cares at this point?
/s
There was a "Yes, Minister!" episode on this principle:
The new minister was having a driver, driving him to wherever, so he could use the time as office-time, in the back..
They shamed him into quitting that, & he became significantly less-effective, which was what the attack had intended.
IF the people are being productive in the air, then I'd put them in a set of gov't-owned aircraft, secret-clearance all the way through, so they could do real work, while on the job.
However, I'd also force them to use normal-airlines when going 'round for their vacations, so they get actual commercial-airline experience, so they know what they're representees are experiencing.
Sometimes the right answer is to convert travel-time into work-time, & if you can't do that on a public flight, then yes, private-aircraft are the means, but it ought be gov't owned, not personally-owned or chartered.
It must serve the country, not the privileged, see?
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Crippling our civil infrastructure, making the US a place no one wants to visit or trade with, cancelling all our alliances, crashing our economy, devaluing our dollar to the point thats its no longer the global reserve currency, shattering our military alliances, removing consumer food, environmental, employment protections and civil liberties.
Whats left on Putins list. Ah right, a civil war based on ethnic tensions. And destroying our legacy military might in some sort of pointless war, hopefully against an ally. And perhaps a nuclear exchange that they arent a part of. And only 3 years and ~5 months left to get that all done.
You hit it spot-on.
You saw-through the appearances, to see the underlying strategy, why the Kremlin Papers actually exist.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atheguardian.com+%22kremlin+papers
( TheGuardian is now actively-blocking DuckDuckGo, so it isn't possible to get any search-results from other search-engines, now, it seems )
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Because firing the controllers worked so amazingly well when Regan did it...
And when Elon did it. It was only a few months ago when there were reports of one lonesome controller being in charge of enough air space that at least four were required. And after all of that they now aren't getting paid, with this fucktard saying if they decide not to turn up to unpaid work THEY'RE jeopardising all air traffic. No asshole, the GOP are the ones shutting it down.
I'm not too familiar with the backwards labour laws in the US, but for a place that only worships the Almighty Dollar, surely you can't get fired for not performing unpaid work.
The whole situation that federal employees don't get paid money that has nothing to do with the budget fight in DC, because of the budget fight in DC, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I get it that they can't fund new projects (so what about ICE?), but this is just stuff that's going to have to be paid anyway.
Of the abundance of ridiculous nonsense rules in DC, this is by far the worst, and that bar was already very high.
congresspeople still get paid somehow. strange...
Presidents who can't remember history tend to repeat themselves.
Admittedly he couldn't remember it if he knew it because he's senile, but he definitely was never aware of it.
Almost like it’s a bad idea to come out and mass threaten the livelihoods of employees you need. Weird.
Go ahead do it.
Controllers, unionize while fired, what are they going to do, there's already a shortage when you aren't union
https://www.afacwa.org/reagan_fires_11_000_striking_air_traffic_controllers
I would expect something like this to happen.
They're already unionized in federal air traffic facilities. The privately run ones aren't but they're still being paid.
Truly one of the highest stress, lowest appreciation, skill-based professions on the planet. What have we become?
I have to think anyone who can work ATC could be a hell of a project manager in any industry with just a bit of OTJ training. I don't know if hiring managers feel the same, but I'd be hopeful that they could easily find work elsewhere.
I feel the same of good devs, actually. But as a dev, I just feel atcs are just on another level.
Step 1: Fire ATC
Step 2: Rubber stamp plane manufacturing safety checks
Step 3: ATC messes up due to shortage
Step 4: TCAS fails because it never got checked
Step 5: 🛩💥✈️
Step 6: Blame "ANTIFA Terrorist"
Step 7: Martial Law
Well, Portalnd won't fight back, we need step 7 somehow....
fight back? why fight when you can mock them daily?
no real question, you realize they want violence, why give it to them?
was /s
ah.
i'm seeing folks on blusky and other social media decrying the lack of 'strong libs ready to clash with the oppressors' and it's getting to me
no worries, sometimes people need the /s, context online isn't always the same for everyone
So... What if they are actually sick...? I mean not getting paid and still having to show up let alone the stress of being a air traffic controller seems likely to make people prime candidates for low immune systems. Oh, but that's right sickness doesn't exist under RFK, right?
That'll make them show up for no pay! What's the worst that could happen with a bunch of disgruntled air traffic controllers?
Here's to hoping the people that fly the most are met with their decisions
Any politician making decisions to not pay working citizens shall be expired
Rich guy logic
oh no what will they do without all that non existent money. Bet they are super worried about getting work with their hyper specific skill set that fewer and fewer people are able to perform
Ah yes, my employer is playing this game as well. Recently after a decade of working loyally for my company, they decided to insult everyone in my department.
We're an important department.
They stopped paying you but expect you to keep working?
This is the guy from The Real World, ya'll.
Which season?
Real World: Boston (1997). Wikipedia says it was the 6th iteration.
Bold move, Cotton, let’s see how this plays out.
The Blue States should hire them, alongside the rest of the RIF'ed personnel of the Trump Regime. During a civil war, those extra traffic controllers will help keep air travel moving smoothly and let the workers have reasonable working hours.
Also, it is the right thing to do. The Trump Regime is hurting people for the sake of a tantrum.
Haha they should, states rights and all that. Say that they are dismantling the department, which wouldn't be too far from the truth. Which means that the states have the right to make their own if the Federal Government wants to abdicate its responsibility.
So.. slavery then?
That's what I can't understand:
Isn't there a law that slavery isn't legal, in the US of A?
Isn't mandatory unpaid job-work .. slavery?
WTF's wrong with the idiotic laws they've had all these years?
You HAVE TO have a law prohibiting slavery, in any guise!
This doesn't compute, for me..
The anti-integrity of a legal-regime which protects such abuse .. can't compute.
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It's already illegal for them to strike. This comes as no surprise.
Just ground all planes until the stupid circus is resolved. That should out some pressure behind it.
This is when Meta or OpenAI or Elon will handover an AI solution and after a few horrific crashes, will declare the system is vetted and permanent.
Tada
Good luck with the ancient systems most airports still run on
You mean you havent swallowed the AI kool-aid yet? Get with the program!!!
you got AI that'll run off of floppy disks?
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2025/06/faa-to-retire-floppy-disks-and-windows-95-amid-air-traffic-control-overhaul/
Image description: A scene from the movie Dodgeball in which a commentator says “That’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off for them.”
Lmfao, slaves. America!!!!
Does anyone have that "first time" meme handy?
Perhaps the most pathetic attempt at intimidation ever, from a shitstain with exactly zero leverage in the situation.