America is one of the few countries where equal rights and opportunity is a fundamental belief. MAGA could just as easily go to another country if they don't like that.
If your argument is that this wasn't always the case "before the country was formed" this holds for the US as well before it was united or still native American tribes.
So then, what actual difference does it make? So many other countries have adopted the same principles. What real world difference does it make that the US adopted them (in theory but not in practice) at conception?
I guess I just dont understand the point of your original comment.
it was 100% never a belief. it was always propaganda. source? ask any native american. or descendant of a slave. or descendant of an irish immigrant. or mexian person. or poor person.
In the Deceleration of Independence it states that "All men are created equal" and have certain rights like life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. In practice, sure, things are different.
neat. propaganda written is still propaganda. heck it took literally more than a century for AMENDMENTS (ie: changes) to be written and agreed upon. Heck it took shutting down a terrorist organization in the process.
The belief in equality is what ultimately lead to slaves being free, right? The country was founded on the belief that all men are created equal as a goal to achieve, not a statement of how things were.
But you are right, it was hypocrisy to say that and have it not apply to everyone.
no. use of appropriate violence lead to the slaves being free*. you cannot vote away slavery, fascism, and other facets capitalists use to keep hold of their control and profits.
and they’re still not free. just locked up in for profit prisons. see a theme here?
You may want to go reread some of those declarations of secession by assorted states…. There’s a lot of “it’s our God given right to own humans as property” in them. But also you believe taxation equals theft so who even knows man.
I've seen a lot of things about America. I've seen these claims, over and over, but the contents of those claims? Rarely. I see the claims in practice in many countries, but never in the US.
It's always screaming freedum, yet the only "freedoms" Americans ever had were guns, cars, and yelling insults
And pushing their interests onto the rest of the world
Christopher Columbus went to hurt the Natives!
On behalf of the Empires in Europe, they killed, enslaved, and poisoned many until the Natives lost their rights!
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Common rhetorical trick of authoritarians to equate love of the country with love of the regime. The two are in no way related and frequently at odds.
America is one of the few countries where equal rights and opportunity is a fundamental belief. MAGA could just as easily go to another country if they don't like that.
One of the few? Sounds like you have not been abroad much or suffer from "American exceptionalism".
I thought for many other countries equality wasn't a foundational belief, it was adopted later after the country was formed.
"When the country was formed" is quite vague. Most European countries have constitutions with the same principles:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/index.html
https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0001840/2023-02-22
https://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/sites/default/files/as/root/bank_mm/anglais/constiution_anglais_oct2009.pdf
If your argument is that this wasn't always the case "before the country was formed" this holds for the US as well before it was united or still native American tribes.
Kinda an unfair comparison when most other countries were created in antiquity.
... not really? Most countries were created in modernity or early modernity, and almost all of them have deep ethnic and linguistic roots.
The USA was founded on a few idealistic scraps of paper.
We can argue whether that helps or hurts, but it is unusual in world history.
Seems you're skipping forward to the current founding of the united states, which was ~1776.
The us constitution was modeled after the local Haudenosaunee Confederacy population's government.
They were finally ousted by white (terrorist) settlers during the Sullivan-clinton campaign.
... considering that there was no 'United States' prior to 1776, this seems a pretty natural position to take.
This is a pop history myth.
Since you relied on your 'trust me because I post a lot' position in responding (you are making it up off the cuff);
Here's some additional details about what you allege is a myth:
Library of Congress Blog Post: https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2023/09/the-haudenosaunee-confederacy-and-the-constitution/
Britannica post regarding the Confederacy: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Haudenosaunee-Confederacy
Do click in there if you doubt that there's a plethora of backing information.
Why lie or feign ignorance? Is this to further the point? Doesn't it function without the lies?
The current nation's founding is rooted in several theories of antiquity and the ground they occupy had centuries of similar government.
I don't think you should just trust me about the Sullivan-Clinton atrocities either, unlike your claims.
https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/the-clinton-sullivan-campaign-of-1779.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Expedition
https://www.amrevmuseum.org/read-the-revolution/memory-wars
The Clinton-Sullivan Campaign of 1779
Nice comic, bad attitude OP.
That's not an unfair comparison, it's literally the point. I swear, we need all internet access locked behind reading comprehension tests.
So then, what actual difference does it make? So many other countries have adopted the same principles. What real world difference does it make that the US adopted them (in theory but not in practice) at conception?
I guess I just dont understand the point of your original comment.
It wasn't me, and I sincerely doubt you're capable of reaching understanding even if you weren't bound and determined not to understand.
Solid copout. I like the touch of arrogance while doing nothing to earn it.
One could argue that when they adopted them they became a new country or at least a new form of their country allowing them to lay new foudations.
it was 100% never a belief. it was always propaganda. source? ask any native american. or descendant of a slave. or descendant of an irish immigrant. or mexian person. or poor person.
In the Deceleration of Independence it states that "All men are created equal" and have certain rights like life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. In practice, sure, things are different.
Written while slavery existed, to just mention one example. What it teaches is that the US was build on lies and hypocrisy if nothing else.
neat. propaganda written is still propaganda. heck it took literally more than a century for AMENDMENTS (ie: changes) to be written and agreed upon. Heck it took shutting down a terrorist organization in the process.
stop pretending america was ever a good idea.
Except the slaves and “negros.” You really are brainwashed by colonist propaganda.
The belief in equality is what ultimately lead to slaves being free, right? The country was founded on the belief that all men are created equal as a goal to achieve, not a statement of how things were.
But you are right, it was hypocrisy to say that and have it not apply to everyone.
no. use of appropriate violence lead to the slaves being free*. you cannot vote away slavery, fascism, and other facets capitalists use to keep hold of their control and profits.
... by a massive state apparatus that was elected by people who believed in abolition.
Jesus Christ. Dogmatic thinking that would make a religious fanatic blush.
sure, elected. that’s a consistent facet - and elections happened on the confederate side too.
the fix was, and has been shown throughout all history, not voting harder. it was violence.
elected except for people like John Brown. but you go ahead and keep thinking voting harder is what “fixed” the confederacy.
You may want to go reread some of those declarations of secession by assorted states…. There’s a lot of “it’s our God given right to own humans as property” in them. But also you believe taxation equals theft so who even knows man.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Was also crucified by merchants in the Church.
Is this what libertarians propagandize now, that Abraham Lincoln freed his slaves because he utterly believed his slaves had rights?
The US doesnt even crack the top 20 in the Human Rights Index my dude.
propaganda*
slaves and natives didn't have much opportunities in the colonies.
I've seen a lot of things about America. I've seen these claims, over and over, but the contents of those claims? Rarely. I see the claims in practice in many countries, but never in the US.
It's always screaming freedum, yet the only "freedoms" Americans ever had were guns, cars, and yelling insults
And pushing their interests onto the rest of the world
I had a Chinese colleague of mine say America is a paradise for women. I've never been to China, so I'm not sure what to compare it to.
This 100%
# The Mythology Of The White Proletariat from Mayflower to Modern
Www.readsettlers.org
https://archive.org/details/Settlers_201801
mythical utopia
"If you dont love it, leave it."
I love saying this to the people who historically have been the ones saying it because those same people say shit like "woke is ruining the country."
"If you don't like woke America, then leave."
It's that time of year again:
Remember to talk to your kids about Christopher Columbus. The story they are getting from school is incomplete white-wash revisionist history.
Not saying to teach your 1st graders about rape and pillage, but, ya know, make sure they know he's not a peachy hero.
Especially if you are Italian-American. We really are the worst with the Columbus worship.
Christopher Columbus went to hurt the Natives!
On behalf of the Empires in Europe, they killed, enslaved, and poisoned many until the Natives lost their rights!
Well I hate America.