Windows Updated and is Pushing More Stuff
I find this mildly infuriating, I only use Windows for work, I even personally purchased Windows 11. Local account and disabled as much as I could. I personally do not like Windows or Windows in general.
Well, now I do an update and they throw this up like I need to walk thru these steps (again). Not even a "Skip"/"Don't remind me again". Windows is not what it used to be and after disabling half the Microsoft stuff I'd expect not to be bothered again. It's really a built in ad more then anything.
2023-08 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems (KB5029351)
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Remind me in 3 days. That shit should be against the law. There should be a don't bug me ever again option.
Try to uncheck "Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows"/"Show me the Windows welcome experience after updates and occasionally when I sign in to highlight what’s new and suggested" in Settings -> System -> Notification & actions (Windows 10) or "Offer suggestions on how I can set up my device" in Settings -> System -> Notifications (Windows 11)
Linux user here. But, that will be helpful for many I'm sure. Nice
which distro?
Debian & Pop
Weird coincidence but this is also how you opt out of a time share condo!
Actual lol from me!
big if true
"Why are you upset? We gave you a choice."
Afterall, "Your PC needs to be backed up and connected to a few more Microsoft services to help you work more easily and securely across all your devices.".
It's a dark pattern microaggression.
That's actually a good thing IMO, Microsoft is giving people more reasons to switch to Linux. How kind of them!
Debian have been fucking awesome since i installed it 23 years ago! It was leaps and bounds better then it's contemporaries.
Random question but you'd probably know. If I had Debian 11 when debiann12 came out will it update or do you need to reinstall? How has this worked in the past and how do you think the jump from 12 to 13 will work?
I'm used to rolling releases but I recently put Debian on my laptop
I have never needed to reinstall Debian. if sources.list say stable, you'd upgrade automatically. but normally the sources specify the release name "bullseye" and you would change that to bookworm when you want to upgrade.
I installed Debian potato right after 2000 sometime. Because i was so annoyed by running into rpm hell with early redhat releases whatever and having to reinstall all the time. and I apt upgraded to Debian woody, and following the release notes, everything worked. At the time that was wild to see. Have been running Debian on all the servers i touch at work since. The Release notes contain information about what is changed from a regular installation. So you can follow the new defaults if you so want.
I DD'd the installation to a larger harddrive, before upgrading to sarge. and by then it had become a bit of a sport, while not being necessary in any way I have kept on upgrading, and moving my daily driver over to new machines for fun.
If you want a rolling release, you can run Debian testing, if you want stability you can depend on, run Debian stable. testing will stick a bit before release, and then have a period of rapid changes after release, but for a not critical desktop, it is generally very nice.
if you want to keep your system healthy tru the decades make sure you read the issues to be aware of in chapter 5 of the release notes for each new release : https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ they contain vital changes you may want to do to keep your system more similar to a freshly installed one.
what's cool about it?
i tried mint a couple years back and had a similar experience as far as gaming went, yeah
Good point, adds to the mountain. I may just see if I could run a windows VM at this point tbh.
I switched to Pop!_OS recently and Windows runs faster in a VM
(because you've only installed the 1 app you need to run not your entire life, and then snapshot it after debloating so it's always the same)
Yeah, I think I am going to setup a VM. I only need it for work due to Windows apps that would work just fine in a VM.
I am actually considering Qubes OS, which might take some work but overall would probably be a good seamless process.
How do you like Pop!_OS? I was looking at System76 computers one day and looked into it a couple years ago. Never gave it a try though, based off Ubuntu right?
Ubuntu/Debian base yeah.
It just worked out of the box for me and runs everything that kept me locked to windows so I've stuck with it.
I've run Handbrake in a VM because the linux version doesn't allow setting the default folder for some reason but otherwise haven't needed Windows in months. and as long as I don't need to do anymore bulk trascoding I've probably seen the last of it.
If you don't play games like valorant, and only need windows for specific tasks then going with a windows VM is a good option.
We’re getting there! There’s still games that run much better on Windows, and some games still don’t have Linux support. But the numbers are shrinking like crazy (THANK YOU STEAMDECK, Steam is the best company for game health as a whole.)
Also with VR… well, I don’t actually know. I haven’t tried, but will my index be fully functional (and run as well) on Linux?
It would not help. They just buy a Chromebook instead because there are no other alternatives in the shop. It would be a different story if the thing when you start the new computer get a guide to choose your OS to use. Even better if Android was the same. EU should force this IMO.
ah yes the non-idealistic idealist, i always admired your kind
Windows is nagware now. Microsoft dared to imagine an entire OS on the Winrar model.
Its actually worse than that. I PAID for Windows. If I paid for WinRAR they would stop.
Well WinRAR only nags you when you use it, unlike windows that is always running and almost always nagging.
If you stop using Windows, it also stops nagging you.
I have but for this PC, and only due to game pass not working nice on Linux (I like to play games with old friends far away)
I understand. If you don't already know it, you can look up here if your games would work on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/
I game on Linux but my friends on xboxs, proton does not come into it sadly.
I wish they went with the winrar model. Winrar just nags you once when starting. Windows keeps trying to trick you into giving them your data and signing up for a subscription.
Don't you compare windows to that time honoured and helpful software. WinRAR knows when to quit, and is free
So many comments shitting here and not giving helpful advice at all, so so fucking stupid. The best way to get ahead of this would be when the next time this pops up, press Shift + f10 and then type "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" easy and simple, takes only a few seconds and makes everything more seamless, such as no one drive bullshit etc..
Dont forget to shit on linux afterwards for how difficult it is
Then delete system32 folder?
What are these instructions actually doing?
Not picking on you, that is actually really good advice and a neat shortcut I'll be trying myself. I just think it's funny all the reddit threads regarding Linux usage, someone will pop in with a simple commands to get whatever the user wants done quickly (Ex: Open the Console and type "sudo apt update" then "sudo apt upgrade" and you'll be good!) and they get shit on with comments like "OMG! You have to Open a terminal to do anything! This is why Windowz rules and Linux is for fanboy dorks!!"
Btw, I dual boot.
This kind of shit is what made me switch to Linux. I just didn't feel like I owned my computer anymore.
I would love to switch, I've used Linux a few times but primary use of my machine is for gaming, Valve have done wonders with Proton and the Steamdeck but imo it's probably not quite there yet?
Depends what kind of games you play. Games like Fortnite, Roblox (though it seems a workaround is being worked on?), R6 won’t work because of their anticheat systems.
Personally, 100% of my Steam library of 200+ games work perfectly on Proton.
Last time I've tried gaming on Linux I had a bad time even connecting my controllers on it, it's plug and play on windows, do you think there has been any improvement on that regard?
Is not only improved, but it's getting better. I find it hard that a controller didn't work on Linux. Which ones were there? Xbox works plug and play, always had. Linux got Play Station controls to work on them before Windows had a driver for them. Originally those things were paid options on Windows. Third party are pretty much cookie cutter drivers that all have always worked seamlessly on Linux. If you have any lingering doubt, you can read the reviews on the Steam Deck, essentially, if it works on a Steam Deck, it will work on a PC with Linux installed. Steam's BigScreen mode turns any regular PC into a controller-centric Console like experience.
Yeah, I play with generic ps4-like controllers. I've been really considering switching to Linux these days, but I feel like such a beginner... Anyway, thanks for the response!
Yeah, I'm going to see about Quebes or just running VM inside Ubuntu at this point.
That's a good recommendation, I actually did run a windows debloater/spyware before. This just happened to be snuck in with an update I guess? I should probably do it again at this point.
I wouldn't use Windows if I didn't have too...I do run Tails and Ubuntu as well but unfortunately 40hrs+ a week on Windows...it sucks.
You have to run it again after every major update.
Run the debloater every update. Some stuff in there is actual settings, but other stuff will be "repaired" by windows.
Also, a workaround to that screen (so far, at least) is to shut the computer down and start up again and it doesn't return till next update.
Okay, nice! Good information!
Question: if you already don't like Windows, I assume you don't care about the new features that come with new updates. So I wonder - why do you update at all? Set everything up as you want it, remove all the hot garbage as you see fit, and disable updates.
Skipping software updates is not a good idea, let alone OS updates. Inbetween all the terribly annoying bullshit they insist on foisting off on people, they do provide security patches and so on.
Primarily for drivers and security updates.
You have a point, I could turn off updates and manually update as I need too but my frustration is that there are ads in the first place.
Fair enough, a very good point.
Personally I've been using customized / debloated versions of windows for a couple years now and have not looked back. Every time I spin up a stock Windows VM I'm shocked how atrocious the experience is. Though I understand that a Windows ISO modified by an unknown third party can be scary to some.
I think I would trust an unknown 3rd parties ISO more then the stock Windows at this point really...
There's been a pretty recent development in the Windows Customization community which released a new toolkit, essentially allowing you to write YAML-based scripts with custom instructions how to modify a live windows installation, which makes the process completely open-source and transparent. I can link some of the projects pages if youre interested to learn more.
How do you like the Snap store and snap packages being pushed on you silently when you try to install packages through APT? :)
Give them a break. They just moved from Windows, you just need to relearn to breath after that. Moving to another distro is a small step in comparison.
You want a broken Windows install? This is how you get a broken Windows install.
The most infuriating thing about windows to me is the big stupid fucking red X on every single file, reminding me that I'm not currently storing my shit on someone else's computer. Is there a way to remove that service from my computer entirely?
Uninstall onedrive
That's what I did, it's one of the few things that it does let you uninstall.
Disable Manage folder backup feature in OneDrive settings -> Backup -> Manage backup -> Stop backup on all folders, or toggle them off on newer version.
This is OneDrive and you do know that this can be turned off, right?
It’s not your computer, it’s Microsoft’s. That’s the message I get from using windows.
In otherwords, it's Apple now, but with none of the benefits.
It is literally not - they sell licenses to large companies, and individual users are only an afterthought.
You can prevent this. Click remind later then go to your notifications in the settings app. Uncheck "Suggest ways I can finish setting up" and anything else you don't want to see.
I love that I have to go out of my way and follow online instructions to undo something that they forced on me in the first place. That's customer antagonistic design for you.
*Complains that Microsoft gives you a way to turn something off.
Looks like you missed his point completely
Alternatively: You can prevent this. Use a different operating system.
This is the best option, I like Fedora
You meant GNU/Linux.
GNU/BSD or GNU/HURD would be fine, too. Or even something like ReactOS or Haiku, for that matter.
The important thing is that the OS respects you as the owner of the computer and does what you tell it to do, instead of trying to subvert your authority to serve a master other than yourself (e.g. the OS publisher or third-parties that want to colonize your property for their own benefit).
"No thanks, I'd rather complain that Microsoft advertising their other services in a totally configurable setting which I can disable is the same as the entire OS literally being an ad."
Why do we have to take more time to disable this shit? We are not all.made of unlimited time. And yes "it only takes a few seconds". Every time something like this shows up the seconds add up
Windows users are in an abusive relationship. It's sad, but not unexpected, that some make excuses for their abuser.
Meanwhile when someone doesn't want to switch to Linux or Firefox...
"Just install seventeen extensions bro, why do you need tab stacking anyways? It's worth it to be FOSS to take three weeks to get your Arch install just the way you like it."
You absolutely have the time, you just want to bitch.
If you hate being used by Windows so much, you really should try an alternative, unless you're a professional that uses software that just can't run on Linux at all, chances are you can get most of what you use a computer for working fine. In return you get freedom, privacy, choice, performance.
Or if you hate it but are too reluctant to change for whatever reason, that's totally fine, but just say that. Don't spread misinformation about Linux.
Literally no one ever says this. Just use Fedora. Almost completely seamless. There's a KDE version if you want to have the same workflow as windows without configuring anything. You don't have to use firefox, brave or ungoogled chromium are FOSS too.
Slow it down a notch, I already use Nobara on two machines and have a steam deck running SteamOS. I'm all for open source, but the "why does windows show me annoying plebian features by default, it's SOOOOOO horrible I have to look through and disable them manually it takes so mich time" feels kind of trite when meanwhile people complain about the time sink in learning a Linux install (even a PnP distro) is hand waived away as not a commitment.
It just feels hypocritical, like a huge blind spot in the community. They claim Windows is so hard to deal with on the most minor shit.
It's not just about the inconvenience though. Windows is paid. It's at least 100 bucks. It's not even "free but you are the product" like Google drive or whatever. Yet it still abuses you, controls you and exploits you, and you have to do tons of workarounds for it to not get in your way. Most of them are always temporary, as a new update reenables everything again or directly circumvents the workaround you used.
If you are locked into the ecosystem, then I do agree that it's annoying that people think moving to Linux is seamless. It wasn't for me, it even cost me money since I had to buy an AMD gpu for things to work well + another GPU to passthrough to a windows VM and still use Clip Studio. But if someone only uses their computer for things that can be done seamlessly on Linux, and they genuinely dislike and are against all the bullshit Windows always does, it's worth it to tell them there is a viable alternative, and what they heard about "you have to use the command line for everything meaningful!" or "everything breaks all the time!" hasn't been true for years.
I guess I found the secret button to disable it, then. Because I haven't had a single ad or bloatware style notification in a long time on my desktop. I'm sorry I just really think it's overblown and basically a meme at this point.
I've had a lot of success with Nobara, it's why I put it on my old recycle pile laptop from my last job. Not only does it just work from the get go but it has a lot of built in functionality for things like discord and game launches that I'd prefer not to spend hours messing around with on a Debian or Arch install.
I'm not waiting for that, just waiting until I have a free few days to figure out linux.
Also abandoning Android for Graphene as soon as I get a new phone.
Enshittification advances ever onwards
Give us an update in a few months how that goes for you
Been on Linux for 15+ years and on graphene for about a year. It's fine. Keep a backup (quarantined) Windows box for games but don't use it much.
The last vestige of my Windows install is a disk image that I haven't touched in half a decade. The SSD it was on itself has long since been reused for something else.
It only takes like an evening. Go with Linux Mint and essentially you will be using your computer in a half hour. Everything else is the fun of discovering all the cool stuff that Linux does easier and more flexible than Windows.
Agreed. Linux Mint shows just how turnkey the user-friendly distros are these days. Even though it is not designed as one of the lightweight, speedy and efficient distributions for experts, it absolutely feels that way compared to windows. And that’s with windows running natively and Mint in a VM.
Can you elaborate on the cool stuff?
The terminal is essentially arcane magic, with bash scripting out of the box, this is big if you're a programmer. Most Linux desktop environments have workspaces and tiling features which make workflow really easy and fluid. Something that Windows is only getting now on W11. Everything is customizable, so you will learn the meaning of the term “ricing”. Which is to make your desktop look as cool as possible, since everything from the fonts and icons to the color of the taskbars and transparency are 100% customizable. There are several rabbit holes you can choose to go into just on aesthetics. But then you have actual productivity stuff like learning your distro's package manager, backup utilities, etc.
Just wrote myself a bash script that uses ssh to fork to background, authentication via key to an ssh server it creates; forwards to tor; tor OR proxies to socks5; creates a shadowsocks server and client, connects the client; and forwards to a remote socks5 server via ssh dynamic forwarded port.
This is my first real script.
Linux is bonkers.
I love it.
Also: Gtk is the way. Qt is not my friend.
Or you can use ShutUp to turn off a bunch of annoying shit that microsoft pushes
Is it open source?
You should probably start learning before your OS is out of support.
Windows 7 was my last Windows. Why wait?
If you shift over to Windows 10 LTSC you'll get security updates until 2032.
You could try dual booting to make the migration a little less extreme. I started that around the time Windows 11 came out and realized about a year later I don't use Windows for personal stuff anymore. Windows is now gone and I do not really miss it.
Pro-tip for dual booting Linux: make it the primary OS. Humans are inherently resistant to change, so you need to set yourself up for overcoming that.
We can bitch all we want but their dollars still go up
And those dollars need to go up so those who invest get returns. And you are an idiot if you don’t invest your money, what kind of loser doesn’t invest their money? Don’t you want your dollars to go up?
Line goes up - the rich get richer.
Line goes down - people lose their jobs.
Eh, this particular screen is kind if misleading. You say you dont see a "skip" or "do not remind again" button, well that's because those buttons are on the next screen(s) for each individual feature. I've gotten this screen a couple times, just click through and you can skip/opt out of all the features. It's kind of silly, but I think the point is that they want you to look at each new feature individually.
Yeah, but nothing here would be considered as a "new feature" and each is an ad for a product that OP chose not to use during initial install. As such, s/he shouldn't be reminded of them, especially not during an OS update and certainly not with an unskippable window. Yes, s/he has the option to skip each feature individually later, but this initial window is either a "remind me later" or a "do it now".
To get into specifics of each item:
OneDrive has been around forever.
If OP customized his/her browsing experience, s/he clearly doesn't want "Microsoft recommended browser settings" (which, by the way, is Edge with Bing search and with all telemetry turn on high).
365 has been around for a while, and this thing is pushing the subscription (by definition, an ad for a paid product).
Windows Phone app isn't new, either.
Microsoft Hello has been around for about as long as Windows Phone app and features.
Then this screen itself is misleading, because it gives no indication that you don't need to do the stuff. It should have the X to close the screen, like every other window that isn't malware.
In other words, it's designed exactly as intended.
Image Transcription:
The Windows 11 Set Up Wizard with the following text: Let's finish setting up your PC Your PC needs to be backed up and connected to a few more Microsoft services to help you work more easily and securely across all your devices. Back up your files with OneDrive cloud storage Have peace of mind knowing they're backed up and available across your devices. Enhance your web browsing experience Restore Microsoft recommended browser settings. Achieve more with a Microsoft 365 subscription Get premium Microsoft 365 apps, 1 TB of cloud storage to back up files and photos, and more. Back up your phone to your PC Access your phone's photos, texts, and more, right on your PC. Sign in quickly with Windows Hello Securely unlock your device with a touch or a smile. Below are the buttons Remind me in 3 days and Continue
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
Is there a way to put alt text in lemmy? I could see the benefit especially for screen readers. I could only see putting it in the content section right?
Mostly I've seen it in the text part of the post as part or all of the description/text.
Don't support Windows. Just use windows activation scripts and run Chris Titus Tech's Windows security and debloating script. If you can, you're better off on Linux.
Go to Settings > System > Notifications. Turn off the last three check boxes. This screen won't come back.
The thing that really rubs me the wrong way about all this is we pay for Windows, I have 3 licenses for Windows 11 and it's gotten so annoying that I don't even use them anymore. I've been a Linux user for quite a while already and between Microsoft's doing more and more data collection, and more ads, I just walked away from it a couple years ago. Fortunately, I was in a position where I could do so. I feel bad for folks that must use Windows for this or that and can't escape it.
You just have to pick your poison. Windows is easy to use. I don't want a walled garden ios machine, nor do I want to spend 2 hours on a forum trying to troubleshoot every little thing on Linux.
I have used both Windows and Linux extensively, and although Linux used to be a serious amount of nonsense to get stuff to work, it's not like that any more. I spend similar amounts of time troubleshooting on each. Help for Linux sometimes is better. If you end up on the Microsoft answers forum, good luck to you, because it means the real answer is buried somewhere on the Internet, if it's there at all.
Agree , ubuntu, mint and popos are just works distros with max number of apps available , flatpak ( tho controversial in the linux community) has also given good option for just works distros to be user friendly ! My non technical family members have been using linux for years now without any issues !
That's not really how Linux is now. At least not Ubuntu varieties
If I had a dollar for everytime someone said Linux isn't bad now is be living on Mars.
What you're really saying is your needs are simple and you've managed to get what you need.
This does not translate to everyone as others might have more complex needs than you.
TrackIR is still a nightmare on Linux, and searching for help with that reveals about 10 situations where no one got a good result and one person who seemingly got lucky.
Another issue is MS Office. Formatting and macros get broken by FOSS alternatives so don't even go there.
There are at least a dozen more issues (NVIDIA, difficult hardware etc ...).
Suffice to say everytime someone pops up saying it works now just starts looking silly.
Until we get native support and better documentation and testing Linux is still an outlier for anything more than basic productivity or gaming in a bubble.
maybe I'm naive but I have a hard time believing msoffice macros are a major part of most business' workflows. any serious application is going to be working in a scripting language from a database. if you're still dependent on Ms office macros your business needed to retool a decade ago.
I can't speak to the other ”problems” you detailed, but if the msoffice complaint is any indication, I strongly recommend you find a new company and fast.
All it has to do is affect one person that needs that feature and it's a no go for that person.
It is rare for me but it is still an issue.
Formatting being broken is an even worse issue and happens far too often.
Lotta words to say you support windows and fear other oses
comments like these are why the linux userbase is both its best and worst feature.
I'm not sure who's more obnoxious, a vegan or a linux user.
It's not surprising that someone who clearly hates vegans would say the same shit about Linux. You're basically the type that's mad at people who think. How many times have you called someone a "college boy"? A non zero amount I'd imagine
I don't hate vegans, I hate the sense of superiority that majority (but not all) of them seem to have. Instead of trying to find common ground and talking about the issue, they alienate themselves from others. You're exhibiting exactly that behavior.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I've ever used the phrase "college boy".
As a Linux user I can tell you that I run into plenty of issues no matter what distro I use. I still prefer it over windows.
Exactly this. Tried Linux mint a while but everything was a hastle for me as a new user. Every program I wanted to install had a different method to do so. I ended up not much using the laptop where I installed it on. A pity, I love alternative software.
I swear this gets posted weekly, there’s a simple solution but it’s always missing from the comments.
Go into notification settings
Uncheck "Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows"
While you’re at it, turn off any of the other suggestion / recommendation settings.
Except Microsoft will occasionally reset settings on updates.
I did already have this turned off, and it still pops things up like this and trying to get me to sign into a Microsoft account. It's just annoying and they don't provide an option to skip or don't remind me again which makes it even worse.
The problem is, there's no immediately visible option to stop this crap; stopping said crap therefore takes time, which is an individual person's single most valuable resource. People have to go searching through settings or go googling 'how do I do this' in order to disable this, and even that slight inconvenience means there's going to be a lot of people that want to disable it, but end up not bothering, and that's not a good thing. Rule of thumb, if it's not absolutely trivial to do on a whim, it may as well be impossible.
Windows is actually right back where it used to be, to be honest. Getting pretty tired of the whole "ecosystem" tech philosophy.
The only thing I can think of is having it selected to automatically install the latest updates, I haven't signed up or enabled anything else. Is that why its preview?
Then you’re either not remembering or you aren’t in it
Either way I’ve had this screen pop up for me too a couple times after updating but they never “added” anything, I don’t see them adding anything here either - just wanted to make that distinction to be fair to MS for the sake of convo only (not gonna forget the bullshit about that Sting concert.)
I understand, the only options I see is added from update or triggered by the update as I've never gotten this window before and it restarted to this screen like I had to do it.
Yeah, I understand just wanted to make sure people understood this wasn’t something new, and that this wasn’t necessarily getting worse. That’d put out false beliefs, which, end up muddying the real problems that windows does have
Completely agree.
I always laugh that the option not to get Microsoft 365 is just "Stay Basic"
That means Microsoft 365 is an acid. Because avoiding acids is how you stay basic.
Or you could be neutral, why do neutrals always get oppressed
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Why are you running updates for beta testers, if you decided to disable as much as you could? Those "Preview" updates will install everything you're missing and more every time, that's their purpose.
Switch to stable updates only, and you won't have that problem... or at least have it way less often.
They will definitely still have the problem.
I literally do not have anything extra turned on, including the Insider Program has always been off. Other then automatic updates, so your guess is as good as mine as why "Preview" updates or otherwise would be pushed. It's not that I'm enrolled in beta or anything.
PEBKAC error for sure
Just upgrade back to Windows 10.
You spelled GNU/Linux wrong.
I personally love Linux, but it's quite complex and not as user friendly as Windows. It's not a good operating system for people without a lot of experience and knowledge on technology.
Linux has a host of there problems, like checking if your laptops hardware is compatible. Which isn't a thing for Windows.
Having to chose a distro also sucks. You have to make pro and con lists and shit. With this distro my WAN card might work, but this distro has more of the programs I need on there package manager and this distro has newer packages but fewer....
This is the point most users quit Linux, before Installation
Those people would not fare well installing Windows either. 99% of users have it done for them.
Also, if you compare apples for apples and look at PCs with Linux preinstalled (Dell does it, among others), Linux doesn't have these problems.
Come to think of it, it's the dead opposite. I have a heap of machines happily running Linux at home that Windows 11 will straight-up refuse to install on.
I use Fedora on my Thinkpad T470s and my fingerprint reader and WAN card do not work. I got the fingerprint reader to work by following lengthy tutorials which do include custom repos and manual editing of the PAM configuration. The WAN card is just dead in the water.
Even getting the fingerprint reader to work would be to complicated for at least 90% of PC users. And it could break with any update as it is a custom driver which doesn't get updated anymore
Distro hopping is not a popular sport and is not representative of Linux as a diverse ecosystem at all.
Nobody said a word about distro hoping so I don't know what your point is
sure there's a little bit of learning and set up at the beginning, but the rewards vastly outweigh the cons. If you change your mindset a little bit you'll see the variety of distributions as a blessing rather than a curse, as you're not locked into only having a single OS to choose from, and it can new a lot of fun trying out all the different styles and setups. Ultimately though as long as you choose one which has a largish support community then it doesn't matter really which one you choose.
Yeah, but with Laptops there will always be a time you have to open up the terminal and punch in 20 commands from a sketchy tutorial from 2015 to maybe get your fingerprint reader to work. How realistic is that for the 90% of user population which do not work in IT?
Windows 10 has this same screen, just a bit different looking. You turn off this notification in the settings menu.
Is that even possible? I thought it was randomly forcing the change to Windows 11 on Windows 10 users anyway.
I've been using AtlasOS, which is Windows 10 disemboweled from a bunch of bloat. It runs like a dream, my only criticism is that they've gutted a bunch of (imo) critical safety features, but they give you the option to reinstate them in their setup files. The next update for it will supposedly add them back in by default.
Excuse me wait ? How is that possible ? Is that like a moddes OS ?
They basically take the Windows install image that's freely available from Microsoft, and they strip all the garbage from it.
https://docs.atlasos.net/troubleshooting/removed-features/
Some of the features they remove are normally included for good reason, like Microsoft Defender and UAC. These OS mods are not meant for people who have no tech knowledge. I wouldn't install this on my mother's computer, for example.
Wonder if it's a version of the Tron Script for Windows 10 which goes on a Windows install and decrapifies it:
https://github.com/bmrf/tron
Takes a while , too much effort to keep using an OS 😅
My PC cant run windows 11 outright, which is hilarious since most of the parts are relatively new.
Windows is bullshit
They are desperate because 2/3 of their userbase still uses Windows 10.
Look, i don't mind the CPU/TPM requirement too much now, but did you really needed to mess up the interface? (Plus, forcing you to have Teams always installed.)
Several things always installed, it's annoying really lol
Laughing from Debian
When it asks for an account just use [email protected]
or [email protected]
Or if its windows pro, choose for work, then say you will domain join instead of use a Microsoft account. It will let you just make a local account, and you can just not domain join it.
I'm partial to [email protected]
I have created several variants of [email protected] and then change to a local account after install.
This was since forever in Windows 10
This feels awfully as a desperate move...
Are M$ numbers dwindling lately or are they just scared there is a rise in Linux users (even non tech savvy) and this is a desperate move to capture more peope?
I do believe there is a up tick in Linux users these days, probably not enough though. The main downside the the popular use of Windows in business, if they get converted Microsoft would probably really struggle even with their other markets.
Im going to bat for Microsoft here, coming from someone who uses both for work+home.
How many tech enthusiast/pcgamers are paying customers of Microsoft? I'd bet that most of us are using grey market OEM keys or reusing a license we've had upgraded from a previous install.
Communities like ours love to harpe on about how 95% of people are not bothered by the invasiveness of the telemetry and advertising, yet those are the very same people that are likely subscribing to Office365, not changing their default browser from Edge, and not installing an adblocker.
These are, in a sense, the "paying customer" to whom any profit driven company would be trying to improve experience of. Setting up cloud backup, signing in to your PC with your phone, using an online account are all good things from a general user perspective. I'd bet they have the telemetry to back this up.
I wish MS would release a SKU which was targeted towards the tech enthusiast, but how would they make that profitable? Not to mention I think a lot of us have a few fundamental misunderstandings on the current situation, some examples;
I need to purge myself after all that corporate shilling.
The Univ and College where I work are forcing every students and staff to use Office 365, and the MS authentificator app for 2fa. They pay millions every years to Microsoft for this, plus the thousand of licences for windows, etc.
Why in the world would you defend that greedy unethtical corporation that now incorporate advertisment directly in windows and keep pushing more and more of their products with every forced update. They make millions only with schools in my provinces.
Really? Those two things do not seem to go together.
This is a very good perspective for the non power user
Why do you need telemetry when you can simply do UX studies, which Microsoft can and already does. I've even been part of a few. Microsoft is also moving away from Windows being their flagship product and is focusing more on office services and azure in terms of profit.
You almost had me.
There is no way in hell Microsoft pays for UX studies and ended up where they are.
When I was studying CS I had a few courses on UX/UI design and the most interesting fact I learned there when looking for papers is: ~half the high profile researchers in the UX/UI field are on Microsoft payroll, and everything Microsoft does is highly inconsistent to contrary to all the insights of their own researchers. I think they buy as many of those people off the market as they can, just so they don't work for somebody else, while shitting on their work, so their UX/UI just doesn't look as bad in comparison to others.
They used to care quite a bit. Now they don't. The Windows UI designers are all now using macbooks and don't dogfood the UI they're building, and it doesn't really matter anyways because Windows isn't the big untouchable moneymaker it once was.
Windows N is the closest I've seen
I never understood why anyone would pay for office 365 or use something like hello. Like Libreoffice is free and does the same job with less bullshit. And last time I checked windows is not running on any ones phones so why push the leftover failed features?
To this day there are things that you can only do in Excel for Windows. Not Mac, not web, only Windows excel. If you are a spreadsheet power user, you are stuck with both Office and Windows. If you work in the corporate world, you are stuck with Office and most likely Windows.
Really? I have never ran into anything like that. I worked in the corporate world for 10 years and used open office then libreoffice. My company had office but I hated it.
Guess I would not know, myself and my businesses have not used Excel in years. Out of curiosity whats missing from the free Excel rip offs? Hotkeys, formulas, or what?
I'm curious about this as well. I have used Libreoffice for years without an issue. My understanding as always been that Microsoft Office products just have more advertising and so many people got/get trained in it that it's just easier then to learn it differently to use LibreOffice software.
I was not aware there was anything missing, other then maybe the cloud. I do know smaller businesses and even some schools who have swapped to LibreOffice but usually overseas, outside the US.
If your competition is other spreadsheet programs, then yes. If your competition is Python or R, absolutely not.
If you're using Excel so much to the point that certain things can only be done in Excel on Windows, just learn Python.
I find it tedious to have to disable Microsoft crap that is switched on without my knowledge in windows. Get a copy of Autoruns to disable most of that crap at startup.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have a look!
It's time to come back to the light. I'm soon making the switch to Linux for good. I was waiting for gaming to become much more accessible... But I was messing up before because I was downloading the wrong drivers.
I've been learning how to use it by keeping my main machine on win10 while my laptop is on pop os. Using that to test my games and learn.
I've been using it long enough that once I get a good break from life, I'll be going thru the steps to switch my gaming PC over.
Note to be less pessimistic about this:
This is exactly how you are supposed to handle system settings being added to, removed or modified. You re-display a limited version of the first-run setup dialogue to the user. It feels familiar, they see it every so often, but you reduce it to the relevant pieces.
You may not like what MS changes, but from a user workflow this is sort-of the best case.
It would be better if there was a no option and not just a delay.
Yeah but the reason many companies stopped offering that (and we had this problem, too) is that users journalize clicking that like they click "OK" in installers or for cookies.
And when you have stuff that is important, they're used to never interacting with it mentally.
Sure here it's just about tracking shit and defaults, but there's good reason to force the user to engage with something that could be an important setting.
None of these are important settings though. These are all just ads for Microsoft services. The only one that even appears remotely important, changing browser settings, is really just trying to get you to set Edge as the default browser again, so really just another advertisement.
Oh I agree. That's why my first post said, the overall UX behind this is solid, even if they use it for shitty purposes.
Careful buddy, you can't make logical points about windows systems. The Linux gooners on Lemmy are ready to beat their meat aggressively while taking your points out of context. Even if you agree with them overall.
I could imagine that for stuff like not having set up any internet connection, as long as there's a setting to disable the reminder for those who know what they're doing. But for these services, absolutely not, that's literally spam at that point and arguably falls under anti spam laws which makes it illegal to not have opt-out available.
These aren't new or changed system settings though, apart from maybe Windows Hello (which isn't new anyway). Nearly everything on this screen is an attempt to upsell users on Microsoft's subscription products.
If a user doesn't want to buy those subscription products, and is given no way to properly decline, that it is a user hostile experience.
And having no other option than "remind me in 3 days" is bullshit which should get the product manager who signed off on it sent to prison
I'm fairly certain it can be turned off in windows notifications settings. "OS Setup Notifications" or something like that
Distrowatch.org
So that's why my disk space has gone down so much
Even if there was the option to skip. I go through the whole setup each time all the way to finishing it. Yet it still comes up again the next time. It's infuriating.
Not sure what I expected from Microsoft though. I got a 365 subscription about two years ago. OneDrive never worked properly. It wouldn't sync, and the so-called "Personal Vault" would reset itself everyday while keeping the contents. Forcing me to go through the setup whenever I used it. The email though, was by far the worst. About a year ago everyone would start receiving an absolutely insane amount of spam/phishing emails. I was getting around sixty a day. I have no idea what Microsoft did to fuck things up so badly though.
Yeah, I did give them a try at one point primarily for windows login but too many privacy concerns and yes, I agree their products don't work for me either. Especially OneDrive and Edge has always been a pain coming built in.
Thank god i use GNU/Linux
I got a new Asus laptop and had to set up windows to be able to get into the advanced boot settings and install Kubuntu. I am so glad I did
You shouldn't need to do the setup. The problem is by default windows hibernates instead of shuts down fully when you pick shut down. So your only real options are crash the computer or hit reboot.
Some manufacturers are nice and don't block you from getting into the bios when the OS is hibernated, but some suck.
This has always, always, always been the case for me since I got a laptop with Windows 11 preinstalled on it. I dual boot Linux (openSUSE) and rarely use Windows, and this screen pops up like 5% of the time when I boot to Windows.
That ubuntu-22.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso starting to look lit af 🥵
May I recommend KDE Neon. Canonical have ruined vanilla Ubuntu with their Snaps agenda.
Microsoft have Microsoft accounts, Canonical have Snaps...
Or debian stable, for all the reliability of ubuntu without the drama
Thanks for the heads up!
It's been like that for at least a ear.
Left or right one?
Oh my god, ahaha.
Yes.
Remember, there are always alternatives..
if this is just like windows 10, there's a checkbox in the settings app somewhere to disable this permanently
Install. Linux.
Yes.
Yes, install Linux, yes, it's better, yes, it's a little different, but yes, you will like it better.
Bloat ware? Gone. Antivirus shit? Gone. Spyware? Gone. Reboots for bullshit reasons? Gone. Forced updates? Gone.
Bullshit. Drivers exist now for just a out everything and most drivers are put of the box, not like windows requiring installs. Most of not all games now work.
Many, not all, but MANY software packages out there have open source equivalents that many times are equal or better than what you're using. If not that, Wine will allow you to run a huge amount of windows software transparently on Linux. YMMV of course but "I need software x!" barely has been an excuse anymore for using windows.
Did I mention it's actually free, no piracy involved (though if that is your thing, lots of software available for that too)
Windows sucks. Microsoft software in general sucks. Microsoft platforms suck (looking at you there, outlook, teams, office, and SharePoint, oh my frigging god what pieces of shit you are)
My 3080 mobile didn't work with anything but arch.
I love Linux but even I get fed up with it a lot. I do think that 90% of games work now though.
Everything driver related except my graphics cards have been great.
Just saying though, Linux isn't a drag and drop replacement, but it's still good
interesting. I wonder whether that's specific to the mobile hardware. I have a 3080 running just fine on Mint.
It was specifically a problem with the razer blade I had. I can't remember the exact issue but Arch had the fix in their kernel or something and ubuntu didn't
I think it was specifically an issue with hybrid graphics with an amd cpu
I'll agree that Nvidia really needs to get their shit together, but it DOES work
It's not always so simple. I would love to use Linux at work, but my work doesn't allow me to.
I know, I had the same problem.leep asking them. I'm in the luxury position where I'll be able to decide what we'll be using
It's not work as a company, but work I do in the company, that is preventing me from using linux. I am software delevoper, and we are developing desktop WinForms and WPF apps. The main problem here is that both WinForms and WPF are tied to Windows, and they are not working on any other OS. We would love to port those programs to another platform, but you can't just port programs that are developed 10+ years overnight. Those project are just too big to port them in some normal time. And there are also 3rd party libraries, that we are required to use, that are made for .NET Framework only. I forgot to mention, that we are using .NET Framework, that is working only on Windows. We could use opensource .NET, which works also on Linux, but even in opensource .NET, both WinForms and WPF works only on Windows. We could use Avalonia instead, because it supports Linux also, but even that is not just straight forward. It would be easier to just create new programs from scratch, but you would still need to support older software, and we just don't have time nor resources to do that.
Interesting. This sounds similar like the company I'm working at right now. They too have all windows desktop apps and I'm working on porting it all to web apps that simply work on whatever you want to use. Granted, this will take (current estimate) a year or 2-3 if I'm doing it all by myself, but then they'll have an entirely new platform that is a bazillion times better than they have now and it will work with Linux without a hitch.
I guess the solution there is to just start, somewhere anywhere.
I built my own framework for this, specialized to build web forms and handle tables easily so with this I can rebuild all their required functionalities quite fast
good points but it's not so black and white
Nothing is black and white but in windows vs Linux it's simple: you want to get your computer back for just you? You want to do whatever the hell you need to do? Switch to Linux and be happy
Not gonna claim its eay to use, not gonna claim it's easy to install, not gonna claim its easy to replace existing software wit OSS alternatives.
But damn, it feels so good.
It is super easy to install it's super easy to use. Finding replacements for software in Oss products may take a little time but I've found everything I need since 20 years ago. Today nearly everything is out there .
Will digital combat simulator and my IR head tracking work?
I don't know, but there is a good chance. Try
Apparently DCS works (with lots of problems) through wine, but the trackIR doesn't work and the HOTAS has issues. DAW works but MIDI also looks like a massive PITA....
I don't know what HOTAS is but it sounds like something very specific / specialized? Maybe contact the supplier and ask if they have Linux drivers available? A lot of times it's not that hard to support Linux as a platform.
Sure, backup is not something you can skip, but the others: Yes. And the backup option should show other alternatives like Veeam, otherwise they are abusing their position in the market and be banned from EU.
Yes, they dont respect the user choose either. Thinking it is their computer.
Shifting to Linux is a solution but not for everyone. Like IT only support Windows computers to minimize cost.
Me at home: If only I could pay someone to build as smooth fonts on Linux as it is on Windows in the web browser by default. Only when websites use fully custom fonts they look good. But default with new Times roman get unusual small or big without truetype etc. Also many applications in the Linux world have poor UI due to poor funding. Result is no designer and gigantic hit area for button due to too far between the buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about but your typical Linux UI tends to look enormously better than windows, beauty being in the eye of the beholder of course.
The way you talk it sounds like you saw Linux 20 years ago and figured it still is stuck there. I have a 3D multi monitor desktop with all the bling you can imagine. Much of it is just that, bling, and I mostly use it to convince people that Linux is awesome (come for the bling, stay for the actual real awesomeness) bit seriously, typical Linux looks SO much better than windows.. try KDE desktop, for example.
You can on a website with HTML 5 specify exactly the font and how it should be interpreted. Those look exactly the same. Good. But if they are not use then often some old font names are used with no more info than size. If nothing specified then browser default font is used. But what about anti-aliasing and handling the hinting? It is about trick the eye to think something is very round when it in reality it built based on squared pixels. Microsoft Truetype was a must when you made the transition from CRT screens to LCD screens. I have seen websites were the text makes the column wider, into the need row and messing up the whole websites layout due to this. I think what it all comes down is that Microsoft old fonts are therefore still used a lot. On Android it is all okey due to we have such high DPI screens.
Yes, over the last years fonts have improved a lot, making the Desktop look good.
What you're saying is something that should be fixed by responsive design and ensuring that your required fonts can be downloaded though your page (source: I built (for over 20 years) and build web page systems myself for a living). Anti aliasing should not cause your webpage to be rendered wrong in any way. Maybe it looks nicer or not, but your layout should not be messed up over that.
Either way, websites these days just send the fonts they want. Don't start about efficiency on that, people seem not to care anyway, but it does all work. Also on Linux.
I've had a Linux only desktop for the last 20 years and I've never had issues with any websites
The typical MS user response.
I give a long LONG list of problems with teams on Reddit, what do I get? "Salty", "Linux fanboi", and so on.
I take it you never used other software and simply don't know any better as too many Microsoft minions think that bigs are actual features...
Laughing from a PopOS Virtual Machine (I'm getting my AMD GPU soon, I'll switch over fully then I promise!).
That choice between Remind me in 3 days or Accept shows the compete contempt they have for the user.
Also that idiotic "let's finish setting up your computer", as if Microsoft is your friend helping you out.
Guys you need to stop using this software. Why do you think so many fan boys are yelling about linux all the time? Because it's fantastic these days.
so annoying
When did they change it from 7 days to 3 days? A couple weeks ago it said 7 days
Also, it doesnt happen every 7 or 3 days. In 2 years i got that screen only twice
I understand some people need to use Windows for a variety of reasons, but I switched to Linux a while back and love it so much
What Distro? I use Ubuntu and sometimes tails for personal use. This weekend, I think I'm just going to setup a Windows VM instead and maybe try out Quebes if I can get that to work.
I only NEED it for a couple low resource applications, hell maybe it'll run in wine.
I mostly use OpenSUSE :) Qubes seems really cool
Laughing from Linux. Fedora, PCLinuxOS, OpenSUSE- all of Linux is laughing 😃
So glad i ditched windows a decade ago and never locked back once. What a shit show
If you have a Renault I don't believe you that you don't have a problem.
There are short term solutions and they are long term solutions.
If your relationship is abusive, you can try to fix it but after years of no effect it's better to prepare for new one. It's a tool, no feelings for it. Don't get abused by silly thing like a operating system brand.
Eh, not quite. I'd say a better analogy involves the posts being "I have a (insert car model here) and the brakes are making worrying squealing noises", and "Hi, here's a (link) to a trade-in offer for a model of car that's much less likely to have the brakes fail on you. It won't even cost you anything to swap except 30 minutes of your time."
I always wonder what people like you do for CAD.
Try to remember that some of us have to use windows for work. Comments like yours are unhelpful. The world would be entirely made of of people who don't care/complain + people on Linux if it weren't for certain software.
I do a lot of CNC cutting, 3D printing and designing my own parts. U may laugh at it but i am very fine with using FreeCAD and OpenSCAD for that.
Why would I laugh? That's awesome that you have a non-Windows solution, and suggests that on the glorious day when I CAD only for hobbies or self-directed work and not for the man that I will have options.
Until then, Windows it is.
My answer is "no" to each of those
Is there a way to get Windows 10 Pro on the LTSC update channel yet? IoT Enterprise LTSC gets updates until 2032, after that's over I guess I'll have to switch to 11... in a VM running on Manjaro
Laughing from Ubuntu
Linux users storming the comments(i use nixos btw)
This sucks, I remember a year or two ago, windows 10 was pushing similar things. My only question is what happens when you don't have internet?(worst case scenario.) I had windows 10 when I was in college, but as soon I finished, I did install fedora as dual boot, and since then I proudly use fedora every day, switched to windows only 1-2 in total.
The most common problem I had was program and app availability. Could I do what I do every day with Windows? The answer was yes. Install and try even if its dual boot, slowly slowly you will get used to it.
If you don't have internet, you're never getting updates in the first place! Unless you mean, you updated, are sitting at this screen, THEN lose your network connection.
Sitting on this screen yeaa, that's what I meant. Ofcoure no internet no updates.
I'm actually planning to switch to Linux as my desktop OS. The main reason I haven't in the past was gaming. But I don't do quite as much of that as I used to, and things have gotten a bit better with gaming on Linux since last I tried. Thinking of starting with Manjaro since it's most likely to have drivers for my hardware.
Sign in with a touch or cringe.
I use the N version of Windows and I never see any of this.
I updated all my PCs and didn't see this shit
Use Linux
"Use Linux" isn't always an option
Ecactly , even though my work can be done better on a linux pc ( I am a dev) , my office has provided me with windows , since they have some group admin policy and shiz !
if you have group admin policies, then you won't see such setup in the first place.
Never said I do ! I just said my work is easier on linux , for reasons of easy setups and builds etc !
Use Linux over VirtualBox?
May or may not be an option. Virtualization doesn't play nicely with all software and hardware requirements, and may violate IT policies regarding device management (which may in turn be beholden to compliance / HR policies, etc)
I always hate it when magas and qultists scream about Bill Gates trying to fix malaria and shit. GODDAMIT PEOPLE DID YOU WHAT HE HAS ALREADY DONE
Edit: he made Windows guys, isn’t that bad enough?
I never understood people getting annoyed by this.
Yes, MS can get pushy advertising their products. What would you expect? I had Windows 11 for a few years I have zero problems. I work and play games on my ROG and it's fast. That's what I need.
When things like this appear I have muscular memory like when I see ads on websites: close or ignore.