ideally, you won't have to. Just living within a gun positive culture is pretty preventative of the bad things that could be directly done to you. otherwise, make a range buddy?
Just living within a gun positive culture is pretty preventative of the bad things that could be directly done to you.
Ha. I know this is the wrong community to laugh at this, but honestly it's hilarious.
It takes more than just being "Yeah guns!" to avoid violence between people. It takes a society where people don't take each other for granted.
Fear is a terrible demotivator for people looking to cause damage. At best they'll be looking for ways to cause damage before you'd notice, before you'd ever be able to pull a gun.
I'll play devil's advocate here a bit, but living in a culture where guns are a constant does put limits on a lot of activity. It's also 100% true to say that people looking to cause damage will do so regardless of repercussions and often in spite of them. In most ways I agree that gun reduction overall has a greater reduction in harm than gun availability. That said, when living in a society where anyone and everyone can have a gun it definitely impacts some of the decisions you make.
I see youtube videos about people freaking out in traffic and getting out of their car to fight and my first thought is that they have no idea if the driver has a gun. The danger of gun culture for most people in that culture isn't a random shooting at a school or mall, even if that's what gets the news. The real danger of gun culture is getting into a minor argument or misunderstanding and someone shoots you for little to no reason. It doesn't matter if they are going to go to jail for wrongful manslaughter or murder if you're already dead.
When you live in gun crazy society it for sure cranks down a certain amount of behavior amongst normal people. The problem inherent to this is that there are stupid people with guns who for some reason don't think other people have them and engage in confrontations as if that's the case.
It takes more than just being "Yeah guns!" to avoid violence between people. It takes a society where people don't take each other for granted.
I usually really hate quote texting people but I just want to point how real this is. Yes, you're correct. It needs both. Valuing both is what makes us leftist gun owners.
As for the rest, I think the other guy who replied to you explained it way better than I can.
your entire existence is predicated by vibes and pretending it's not shows just how unengaged with society you are. if you'd like to educate yourself, the entire history of the Black Panther movement is right there. there are places in America right now that ICE will not raid because of the viBeS indicating that they will be shot if they try.
I know I can't force you to use your brain but I'm sincerely inviting you to at least check yourself for a pulse.
I'm 100% on board with you, but do you have you be so rude in your response to the weevil? They're a genuinely interesting, generally nice person, at least in my experience.
that's a good problem to have. it seems you guys have built your society right without all the insanity we're dealing with in the US right now. take care of yourselves and eachother 👍
It is physically painful to watch the American Consumer sold on yet one more retail panacea for a structural social problem.
"Oh, fascist government has you worried? Consider Amazon-brand AR-15s! Walmart is fully stocked with punji sticks and shovels! I think I can get a claymore mine off Temu (shop like a paranoid billionaire)!"
Organizing a left wing militia is a fast track to the grave. Under our current conditions, we can have leftist organizing, and we can have armed leftists, but explicitly organizing a leftist paramilitary force is going to be very difficult. Even orgs like the SRA are very cautious to not be perceived as such. That doesn't mean there isn't value in training leftists in basic firearms proficiency.
Organizing a left wing militia is a fast track to the grave.
Then there's no point in owning a gun. You don't have comrades. You aren't operating under any kind of command structure. You don't have a support network behind you. You don't even know who to point your damned gun at.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t value in training leftists in basic firearms proficiency.
Training them through what organ? We just ruled out any kind of leftist armed organizing.
If that's how you see it, that's how you see it. I mentioned the SRA-- they are an "organ" that is training leftists in basic firearms proficiency. They aren't going to give any "tactical" training under any official banner though. Leftists can get that training just like anyone else, by paying some CHUD if they want to. There are also a lot of anarchists out there who organize (less formally) firearms trainings. I know because I have participated in some. My attitude is that if ever a time should come where you find yourself needing to hold a gun, it will be a lot better if it isn't your first time.
It takes a lot to realize that and exercise that restraint. You're a good egg. With that being said, a paintball gun would have a low chance of self-harm, but they make coyote urine balls that smell terrible on impact. Just saying.
I'll just point out that showing up to a hypothetical gun battle with only paint (or even pepper balls) is a bad idea. Cops and other criminals will undoubtedly act as if you're holding a firearm anyway, even though you aren't, and their guns can do unto you while you can't do unto them. Tread wisely.
No need. These days you can get the aforementioned "jawbreakers," which are solid plastic or aluminum .68 caliber balls specifically designed for paintball gun use and what for to cause havoc. Unlike frozen paintballs they're shelf stable.
It's time to get armed. Wish it wasn't, but the writing is on the wall. If Americans want to go on blowing each other's heads off and having endless school shootings, well, that's better than living under fascism, which is here, now.
Gonna be a lot harder for them to do what they want if we're all packing.
I don't like reddit anymore, but there's /r/liberalgunowners. I'd suggest taking a safety course, then renting (edit: multiple firearms) at the range, and then buying what you think you need/ like.
Edit: Guy bellow me is also right.
Edit edit: I forgot about this part. You should prepare yourself to spend the amount of money needed to buy an older, used car. It depends on the state, but that was my experience. Around 4k with EVERYTHING involved.
Seconded on the safety course. Ask all your questions then, too.
It’s worth mentioning that you should try out a few options before going with the first gun you try. My spread went down by half in a day just by finding the one that fit my hand right.
And lastly, stay in practice. Like anything, if you don’t do it for a while, your skill will plummet. The last thing you want do is try to remember the fundamentals in a life or death situation.
$4k?? No fuckin way lol. You can buy a glock or even an AR for under $500 right now. 500 rounds of 9mm for the glock is $150 or 1000 rounds of .556 is $450. $50 for a couple hours at the range with a friend that can show you the ropes.
This is CA, including the course and all the bells and whistles. My glock was 1k alone. We're limited to the gen3 glock due to the California roster, and it's still expensive (mostly paperwork).
I just moved from CA, and yeah CCW adds a lot (if you even live somewhere you can realistically get one). $1k for a Glock is crazy town, man. Even at the beginning of covid they weren't that much.
Nah, for sure. I believe it was about $500 originally, but after shipping, taxes, background check, other fees, etc... about 1k. Half the price was paperwork. That was about 8 years ago? I'm not sure if the gen3 became more available. I know the shield is pretty cheap.
Thanks! Moved for family reasons, and very much miss California. It's not without benefits though, at least when it comes to firearms. I can mail order ammo without any kind of license, and I can 3d print my own guns if I so choose. Nice that this state also recognizes my CA CCW.
Find a local gun store, tell them you're new and want to learn. If they're not in your face with MAGA, they're probably alright. Depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to be discerning with your choice. Most gun stores are gonna lean right. They're not really gonna side with groups that want to reduce their business.
Spent the weekend on private land blowing through thousands of rounds with my AR, Glock, and 20 caliber. I suggest everyone start going to the shooting range and get acclimated to your guns. It will be necessary soon enough. I believe that.
I did the same with a buddy that just got his first pistol, which is believe he did due to the times. I hadn't had my guns out to shoot since pre-pandemic, it was a good time to make sure everything is clean, lubed, and in working order.
Hell ya! Tell him welcome to the club! I need to take my 30-30 and 30.6 with me next time to train some folks on long distance shooting. My shoulders bruised up from firing 30 round clips in a few seconds tho. Too much fun on private land.
You ever shoot .45-70? My father-in-law had a lever action Marlin chambered in that. That was the most my shoulder has ever hurt. I fired THREE rounds through it, and I was done for the rest of the day. My shoulder was bruised for a week. Holy crap. I've shot 30-06 before, I've shot .308. I've shot crappy old 12 guages with basically no cushion to the stock. Never experienced anything like that. Never again. Pretty sure he sold it after that one outing.
The lower left picture (and other knowledge of the groups) makes me think that the upcoming resistance will be led by trans and furry hackers/coders, etc. I hope they can organize. How sick would that be if they're the ones responsible for taking down the fascists.
I mean, it's not exactly a new opinion. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers should be frustrated, by force if necessary
I absolutely believe that giving guns to everybody is a really dumb idea. But if I was living in the present day US, I'd start stocking up on guns and ammo and practice shooting.
If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you've already lost. None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it. You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it. If I was a conspiratorial type, I would say that making the left gun-happy is a psyop by fascists, because there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns, and fasch can't thrive in a healthy society.
And shooting at ICE will make things substantially, distopially worse. It will either bring the true fascist regime of which this one is a pale shadow, or a civil war, and a civil war is basically an end of at least two generations, even if "good guys" win. However bad a life of a regular person is in the US right now, and it is bad for a lot of people, I can absolutely assure you, it's nothing compared to life of a person in a country where civil war is happening. Or full blown authoritarianism for that matter.
None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it
I think we are referring to other humans with guns, which can in fact be solved by shooting them. In fact, that's SOP for SWAT, who are the kind of people you want well-armed ... assuming you also have an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy to govern them.
Root cause here is cultural. US needs denazification, according to the original pre-Putin definition of the word, exact same way post-WWII German society became... an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy
None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it.
Wrong.
Fascism is here. It is not an existential threat. And fascism always has to be responded to with force. Fascists do not respond to politely phrased requests or democratic elections.
You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it.
Are you unaware of WW2?
there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns
Fascism isn't a guy you can shoot at. It's a social disorder, and the best food for it is an inability of people to organise, to trust each other, to form communities that will recognise attempts of autocrats to usurp the power and to take your democracy away. And among the instruments of this social erosion is this fundamental fear people have of each other. Fear that exacerbated by ubiquity of guns, in part caused by it, and made substantially worse by it. Fascists want you to think in a framework of personal violence, they want you to dream about getting into direct fights, because that's their whole world, that's where they thrive. When they come to your house to throw you to jail for thoughtcrime, they want you to respond with shooting your gun at them. What they don't want is for you to be connected to your neighbors, to your social group.
Are you unaware of WW2?
Are you by any chance a country in Europe in the middle of 20 century? Because if not, the WW2 isn't an applicable example.
This isn’t a healthy society.
Yeah, for example y'all are too obsessed with guns
If we lived in a better society we wouldn't need to have reversed on this topic and we'd still be trying to reduce the number of firearms. But we live in a stupid society that forces us to have to arm ourselves. That's the current reality.
it's almost like people change their stances on things depending on the situation
healthy country? kids shouldn't have easy access to guns
whatever the fuck is going on right now in the us? give everybody a gun without question and let's see how it plays out. can't be worse than an authoritarian government
Yeah armed resistance is working out great in Gaza, right?
Most times armed resistance movements are just about giving power to violent leaders. And those violent leaders of resistance movements go on to become oppressors if they ever gain power.
Anyone that is unfortunate enough to stumble into this mess, please review all the conversations between Doomsider and myself. You will find he is either a bot, troll, or astroturfing. He refuses to take any stand on any matter and will only attack, deny, or accuse. He has no principles. Please ignore him and preferably, block him.
I would definitely recommend blocking this guy. He is a wanna be troll baiter. I don't mind having conversations, but it is clear this character is a political hack with a lot of rage and no answers.
GCA and NFA are not related to the Black Panthers. It is clear you are very wrong, but that is okay.
Fascism is what brought more guns than people to my country. We lose 50k civilians every year to gun violence and you could care less. Don't even try to lecture me.
You want to complain to the manager of the fascists? Maybe this will get them to stop what they're doing? Also, if you're going to argue a point in good faith.. at least don't make it seem like we should accept fascism just because it's kind of always been around.
I absolutely detest fascism, but I also recognize that the US has always been fascist from the very start. Not only that, but the US is also the chief exporter of fascism having toppled 75 countries during the Cold War alone. It helps put things in perspective.
You serve no purpose in your conversations other than to try to garner support for your paranoia. I notice how quick you are to point at problems, and how you have yet to offer any solutions or propose any alternatives. Nobody should engage you in any meaningful conversation for which you appear to be unable to engage in good faith. You also said this.
“Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.” - Doomsider
Now stand by your words and explain to everyone why you're not wrong without changing the subject and spouting about some vaguely related historical fact to obfuscate. Eat Crow, Doomsider.
You've lost the narrative. Nobody cares what you think anymore, if they ever did. You enjoy the taste of boot leather with a sanctimonious superiority fetish. This is what you are.
Since you're not messaging me, anymore, I just want you to know that I think it's really sweet of you to be able to care less for me. You've set our differences aside and become a better person than you were before. That's what life is all about.
You're a fascist apologist. That's a fact. For the record, so everyone here knows what you are: Do you or do you not support using violence against violent fascists?
They literally dragged off university students for protesting Isreal, and then the President threatened states that boycott Israel. You are completely wrong on the first point.
The US locks up more people than anywhere else in the world. I think you are not critically examining these issues and instead are going off of years of propaganda you have been spoon fed.
Ok, now tell me what actually happened and not the Democrat narrative.
Also the US locks up more people than anyone else in the world because we have a much larger population than almost everyone in the world. We also have a major crime problems stemming from a culture that glorified criminal activity.
I am not part of the Democratic Party so I am not sure what their perspective is. My perspective is wealthy people are controlling the messaging around Palestine. The reason they effectively shut down all college protests is to control the narrative.
This is like pro-active propaganda where you confront a problem before it becomes one. Fox News is great at this with talking heads creating the narrative to stories before they are even broken. Thus inoculating their viewers from outside opinions before they even hear them.
You are outright wrong about your analysis of our prison system. We only account for 4% of the world's population but 20% of the world's prison population.
We have a major problem with locking people up, that is for sure.
My perspective is that you're obfuscating from real solutions and distracting people with perceived problems. You have nothing of value to offer any debate or conversation. If we every want to know what's wrong with the world, you're an endless list. Ask you to take a stand on any given solution and you shut down. Why don't you have any principles, Doomsider? Instead of telling people what we shouldn't be doing.. why don't you let us all know what you think we should be doing?
The only person who has offered up no insight or facts is you. I mean you really are coming off as pathetic at this point.
I will offer you this, as I can already tell you haven't learned any lessons from history.
You think the way to fight fascism is with violence, or perhaps more specifically to fight fascist violence with violence. This is unfortunately propaganda you have come to believe.
The crux of your belief system is probably informed by WWII and the defeat of the Nazi empire through violence. The problem is it is not all that it seems and fascism was not defeated in WWII. In fact, the Fascist country that helped to create the Nazi empire was also the one that helped end it.
Wealthy people in the US funded the Nazi party and then made sure there was no escape for the Jews. If the US was the good guy and not fascist then why did they do this? Why did US corporations help the Nazi empire?
Why did the US welcome all the Nazi scientists with open arms? Why did we continue to practice eugenics if Nazism was bad?
This is the problem of thinking a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. The truth in this situation and most others is there is no good guy.
You seem to miss the point of discussion. Instead of listening, you just have to be right. I am not joking when I say that you seem fascist yourself. You really do believe your ideology will somehow take hold after all the dusts settles. Just like every other fascist.
People claim to be "oppressed" as the government passes special laws to protect them and put their flags out everywhere.
In your mind you're oppressed.
There was widespread feeling that if they just went along with it, the Nazis would leave them alone. That was a deadly wrong assumption. There's also factors like having enough able-bodied young adults to do it when there was a need for them to take care of older people.
Forgotten Weapons has a video about a college paper he wrote on the topic. It largely shows that people in the Jewish Ghettos could get crude but workable firearms if they needed, but the factors above tended to get in the way.
As were some of the groups in the Civil Rights movement. There was a group armed and trained by a black WW2 veteran that protected families from retaliation by the KKK for going to desegregated schools. Armed with rifles and machine guns, they would put sandbag emplacements on people's porches to ensure that their kids were safe throughout the night.
Together, monkey strong. When we're divided, it's much easier to silence us one by one. And that doesn't even need guns to be involved in the equation.
The ones that fought back often had a higher survivability rate than those that did not. Especially those that survived the ghetto uprisings to join resistance groups such as the Bielski Brothers. So while nothing was guaranteed, armed resistance did increase the odds of survival.
Then you are giving a complete monopoly of force to the Government, who are the ones in charge and don't care about killing. You surrender all ability to protect yourself for the hope that those in power both want to and are able to protect you.
Genuine question, how exactly do you picture this playing out? Let's say you are a homosexual married person in the US, and the right for gay marriage is overturned. Now what? How is a gun going to help you? When someone tells you "actually you're not married anymore" just shoot them? What is the plan here?
PSA: WHEN YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED BY MASKED THUGS, PLEASE DO NOT RESIST. JUST DO WHAT THEY SAY AND QUIETLY DISAPPEAR. DO NOT MAKE THE FASCISTS KNOW FEAR. REMAIN HARMLESS.
I DO NOT WISH TO SEE ANYTHING THAT THREATENS MY COMFORT OR PRIVILEGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS MATTER.
You're sincerely confused? It's clear you have no background in anything military or perhaps even psychology. It's power-projection. You've become so conditioned to believe that power-projection is only used as a tool of oppression that you're overlooking the fact that it's better to point guns than it is to face guns, and it's certainly worse to face guns without one to point back. Would you rather cede power to those who desire it than support empowering those who would wield it to protect your right to exists?
You want to exist in an ideal world? Be willing to fight for it -- the ones who wish to oppress others are certainly willing to use violence to achieve their means. Once you've claimed victory over violent oppression, then you can set the guns aside and build a society around the flimsy concept of a disarmed society. Guns are still tools and have uses outside of violence, but that's outside the scope of the point I'm making.
I think you're missing the point. The vast majority of gun owners will never have to use their firearms in self-defense, that much is true. Most responsible gun owners also hope they never have to. It's also true that the vast majority of people with homeowners insurance will never have their house burn down, yet they still pay their insurance company every month.
Wouldn't you at least like to give yourself a fighting chance in the event that the worst happens?
Just to expand on that, there's value in just having them. The US military has developed anti-insurgent tactics over the past 20 years. One of them is that to occupy an armed populace, they expect to need one soldier for every three civilians in the area. They have to assume everyone is armed and everyone will be against them.
That would mean that if they want to put the US under martial law, they will need to mobilize 25% of the US population into the military directly and expect them to follow orders to the same level of competence as the existing military. This is a pipe dream. Approximately 10% of the US population was uniformed up in WW2, and agreement on the war was nearly universal. The draft existed not so much to get enough people, but to make sure the military could take in people at a sustainable rate without cutting too much into industrial production at home.
All combined, the regular military, the National Guard, and ICE do not have enough people to put the entire country under martial law. They don't even have enough to put New York under martial law. They might have enough for Vermont. The ICE recruiting surge won't change this.
The Green Mountain Boys, the long-standing Vermont secessionist movement, and a bunch of deer-hunting farmers with generations of familiarity with the land and a massive "mind your own goddamn business" attitude have entered the chat.
You'd think that, if you didn't know Vermont. Mass is the state you want, they have no guns, like for real. VT is liberal NH, they have plenty guns. Hell they might have an easier time with NY than VT tbh, even with the disparity in numbers between them and VT.
I know they have a literal few, but fuck they fight hard to cut down on it. You'd think with all the goddamn bricks in that trail it'd remind them freedom was a thing but NOPE.
What we'll see from the 2A crowd is the same shit we've seen with the Israeli Settler movement.
Certain people are allowed to own guns. Certain people are allowed to carry them in public. Certain people are allowed to use those guns to take property, abuse political opponents, commit sexual assault, and engage in vigilante homicide. These people will be under the aegis of a friendly police and paramilitary force.
They put it in there because a well-regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. Well, we have a military now - by far the largest in the world, in fact.
And you clearly don't understand what "well-regulated" or "militia" meant at the time, or any other bit of context.
There's 2 types of militia - organized and unorganized. Organized militia is the National Guard. The unorganized militia is every able-bodied man of fighting age, roughly 16-45 years old at the time. Note that the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify between organized and non-organized militias.
"Well-regulated" doesn't mean "organized". At the time, it meant properly equipped and trained. That means having a rifle, knowing how to use it, and also knowing how to survive on your own in the wilderness to some degree. All of these were pretty common in the early US's history.
There's also the broader context of US military doctrine over most of its history. Up until WWII, there was a very small standing army, mainly formed of a corps of well-trained officers (CO's and NCO's). The idea was that the country would hold a draft whenever war came, and that corps of professional soldiers would train, equip, and lead the draftees. Unsurprisingly, training draftees to fight is a lot faster and cheaper when they already have their own equipment and know how to use it.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is twofold. The first is to serve as a check against a tyrannical government by enabling an unspoken 4th branch of government made up by the populace. The second purpose is to better enable raising a military in wartime.
And aside from all of this, you are conveniently ignoring the second clause of the amendment: The Right of The People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you look at the structure of how the amendment is written, it's very obvious that the first clause is there as an explanation and that the second clause can stand on it's own.
And lastly, why are you going to a gun owners community to argue against gun ownership? You're literally going out of your way to start an argument. Get off your phone and touch grass
School shootings are an emergent property of our society. The proliferation of guns is a big part of the conditions, yes. That sucks, but that's just the way it is, and it's not changing anytime soon. Meanwhile, it isn't just the cops/military we have to worry about, it's ever more emboldened and maybe even "deputized" right-wing paramilitaries. Do not comply in advance. Do not voluntarily disarm yourself.
I'm anti-gun as fuck, but you fail to understand that this is not an intelligent society that can exist without firearms. We are entering a situation where we are going to need firearms. It's as simple as that.
I'm pretty tired of school shootings, but I'm more concerned about living under fascism than I am about school shootings.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present “until it effects me”…
Quick question.
Are you fucking stupid?
If you are living in America you are now living in a nation with a fascist government. If you are unwilling to prepare for the worst case scenario, which is usually the case with fascist governments, then you are fucking stupid.
So I guess my question to you is rhetorical. You are, in fact, a fucking idiot.
Now, if you can't do anything other than whine like a little bitch, then shut the fuck up and let the people who are willing to prepare for that worst case scenario converse with each other while you go crawl under a rock and die like the little bitch you are.
Says the loser that literally stated in another comment that they're doing nothing.
Time for preparation has passed.
What a stupid fucking thing to say.
You and the other gun strokers go take back our country.
Dickless pussy tells others to save them. Sounds about right for a coward such as yourself.
You’re all fucking cowards that talk a big game
You're a coward that tells others to save you because you can't save yourself.
but we all know you love guns
I stated in another comment that I've been anti-gun my whole life you dumbfuck. Can't be anymore. The situation has changed. You're too stupid to grasp that.
Goddamn pathetic the lot of you.
Lol. I just went through your comment history. The majority of your comments are downvoted because you're a fucking idiot. I even found the classic loser reply from you on one of your most downvoted comments where you said "downvotes are from people that know I'm right but are mad about it". A true loser response to being downvoted for being a world class dumbfuck.
it’s a current promise by the powers currently in charge. remember: the constitution is not immutable. learn that now and learn it hard.
2A is important and ownership even as a hobby is still very much important. There is nothing “defensive” about some of my guns, they exist purely to make me laugh.
220 replies
I know how to handle firearms and I'm somewhat able to hit a target. But oh my god do I not want to use any, for anything.
ideally, you won't have to. Just living within a gun positive culture is pretty preventative of the bad things that could be directly done to you. otherwise, make a range buddy?
Ha. I know this is the wrong community to laugh at this, but honestly it's hilarious.
It takes more than just being "Yeah guns!" to avoid violence between people. It takes a society where people don't take each other for granted.
Fear is a terrible demotivator for people looking to cause damage. At best they'll be looking for ways to cause damage before you'd notice, before you'd ever be able to pull a gun.
I'll play devil's advocate here a bit, but living in a culture where guns are a constant does put limits on a lot of activity. It's also 100% true to say that people looking to cause damage will do so regardless of repercussions and often in spite of them. In most ways I agree that gun reduction overall has a greater reduction in harm than gun availability. That said, when living in a society where anyone and everyone can have a gun it definitely impacts some of the decisions you make.
I see youtube videos about people freaking out in traffic and getting out of their car to fight and my first thought is that they have no idea if the driver has a gun. The danger of gun culture for most people in that culture isn't a random shooting at a school or mall, even if that's what gets the news. The real danger of gun culture is getting into a minor argument or misunderstanding and someone shoots you for little to no reason. It doesn't matter if they are going to go to jail for wrongful manslaughter or murder if you're already dead.
When you live in gun crazy society it for sure cranks down a certain amount of behavior amongst normal people. The problem inherent to this is that there are stupid people with guns who for some reason don't think other people have them and engage in confrontations as if that's the case.
I usually really hate quote texting people but I just want to point how real this is. Yes, you're correct. It needs both. Valuing both is what makes us leftist gun owners.
As for the rest, I think the other guy who replied to you explained it way better than I can.
Ah, yes. I've heard that Vibes-Based gun ownership is 50% more effective than Regular gun ownership.
your entire existence is predicated by vibes and pretending it's not shows just how unengaged with society you are. if you'd like to educate yourself, the entire history of the Black Panther movement is right there. there are places in America right now that ICE will not raid because of the viBeS indicating that they will be shot if they try.
I know I can't force you to use your brain but I'm sincerely inviting you to at least check yourself for a pulse.
I'm 100% on board with you, but do you have you be so rude in your response to the weevil? They're a genuinely interesting, generally nice person, at least in my experience.
yeah okay that was a bit dramatic. I don't know them and I was being annoying.
Take that, materialists.
🙄
okay that was rude of me. I should have just let it be. have a good rest of your night
I'm in Germany, I'll only need to use one if Vlad decides to come over.
that's a good problem to have. it seems you guys have built your society right without all the insanity we're dealing with in the US right now. take care of yourselves and eachother 👍
Better to have and not use than need and not have.
*paid for by the military industrial complex – commercial consumer division
Finally, some DEI
It is physically painful to watch the American Consumer sold on yet one more retail panacea for a structural social problem.
"Oh, fascist government has you worried? Consider Amazon-brand AR-15s! Walmart is fully stocked with punji sticks and shovels! I think I can get a claymore mine off Temu (shop like a paranoid billionaire)!"
Jokes on you, Amazon sold their AR-15 division to Ruger last month, and Walmart only has 80% punji sticks (gotta sharpen them yourself) but they do have shovels yes. And you can indeed get a claymore on Temu.
(Sidenote, 100% I'm buying one of those claymores for my desk, thanks for making me search it for the lolz.)
Capitalists will sell us the ropes etc etc. Consuming guns is absolutely not "the answer", but being armed, willing and able definitely is.
I don't think you're supposed to eat them
Show me the left-wing militia and I'll be a bit more excited about left-wing gun ownership.
But ten-thousand monkeys with AR-15s does not a leftist movement make.
Organizing a left wing militia is a fast track to the grave. Under our current conditions, we can have leftist organizing, and we can have armed leftists, but explicitly organizing a leftist paramilitary force is going to be very difficult. Even orgs like the SRA are very cautious to not be perceived as such. That doesn't mean there isn't value in training leftists in basic firearms proficiency.
Then there's no point in owning a gun. You don't have comrades. You aren't operating under any kind of command structure. You don't have a support network behind you. You don't even know who to point your damned gun at.
Training them through what organ? We just ruled out any kind of leftist armed organizing.
If that's how you see it, that's how you see it. I mentioned the SRA-- they are an "organ" that is training leftists in basic firearms proficiency. They aren't going to give any "tactical" training under any official banner though. Leftists can get that training just like anyone else, by paying some CHUD if they want to. There are also a lot of anarchists out there who organize (less formally) firearms trainings. I know because I have participated in some. My attitude is that if ever a time should come where you find yourself needing to hold a gun, it will be a lot better if it isn't your first time.
You can just 3d print them. It doesn’t have to be retail. Also btw, this attitude is what got us into this position.
America has more guns than people.
Yeah so you can probably save by buying a used one too.
Can't do it, my brain is bad
It takes a lot to realize that and exercise that restraint. You're a good egg. With that being said, a paintball gun would have a low chance of self-harm, but they make coyote urine balls that smell terrible on impact. Just saying.
And pepper balls, and jawbreakers.
I'll just point out that showing up to a hypothetical gun battle with only paint (or even pepper balls) is a bad idea. Cops and other criminals will undoubtedly act as if you're holding a firearm anyway, even though you aren't, and their guns can do unto you while you can't do unto them. Tread wisely.
No need. These days you can get the aforementioned "jawbreakers," which are solid plastic or aluminum .68 caliber balls specifically designed for paintball gun use and what for to cause havoc. Unlike frozen paintballs they're shelf stable.
Learn to fly drones instead!
Surprised this group hasn't been mentioned. I have known, and been friends with, several members.
https://www.pinkpistols.org/
Yup, I'm a lifelong filthy anti-gun liberal.
Can't be anymore.
It's time to get armed. Wish it wasn't, but the writing is on the wall. If Americans want to go on blowing each other's heads off and having endless school shootings, well, that's better than living under fascism, which is here, now.
Gonna be a lot harder for them to do what they want if we're all packing.
I suggest you watch these 3 videos in sequence and in full (assuming you have the attention-span for it):
guns part 1 (technicalities)
guns part 2 (failed laws)
guns part 3 (possible solutions)
especially if you're non-US.
Knew it was Beau before I even clicked on it. Great little video series he did back then!
"Only 3 kinds of people in the world: pro-gun, anti-gun and those who actually know how firearms work."
I miss that man. His wife is doing a great job though.
She doesn’t do it for me the way Beau did! She’s not bad, she just has a different way of delivering things that I don’t enjoy as much.
She's clearly reading a script, whereas he seemed to be talking without one.
Are there any resources for getting started?
I don't like reddit anymore, but there's /r/liberalgunowners. I'd suggest taking a safety course, then renting (edit: multiple firearms) at the range, and then buying what you think you need/ like.
Edit: Guy bellow me is also right.
Edit edit: I forgot about this part. You should prepare yourself to spend the amount of money needed to buy an older, used car. It depends on the state, but that was my experience. Around 4k with EVERYTHING involved.
Seconded on the safety course. Ask all your questions then, too.
It’s worth mentioning that you should try out a few options before going with the first gun you try. My spread went down by half in a day just by finding the one that fit my hand right.
And lastly, stay in practice. Like anything, if you don’t do it for a while, your skill will plummet. The last thing you want do is try to remember the fundamentals in a life or death situation.
Yup. In a stressful situation, you fall back on muscle memory.
$4k?? No fuckin way lol. You can buy a glock or even an AR for under $500 right now. 500 rounds of 9mm for the glock is $150 or 1000 rounds of .556 is $450. $50 for a couple hours at the range with a friend that can show you the ropes.
This is CA, including the course and all the bells and whistles. My glock was 1k alone. We're limited to the gen3 glock due to the California roster, and it's still expensive (mostly paperwork).
Edit: My bad, I also included ccw in my head.
I just moved from CA, and yeah CCW adds a lot (if you even live somewhere you can realistically get one). $1k for a Glock is crazy town, man. Even at the beginning of covid they weren't that much.
Nah, for sure. I believe it was about $500 originally, but after shipping, taxes, background check, other fees, etc... about 1k. Half the price was paperwork. That was about 8 years ago? I'm not sure if the gen3 became more available. I know the shield is pretty cheap.
I hope you enjoy your move!
Thanks! Moved for family reasons, and very much miss California. It's not without benefits though, at least when it comes to firearms. I can mail order ammo without any kind of license, and I can 3d print my own guns if I so choose. Nice that this state also recognizes my CA CCW.
Find a local gun store, tell them you're new and want to learn. If they're not in your face with MAGA, they're probably alright. Depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to be discerning with your choice. Most gun stores are gonna lean right. They're not really gonna side with groups that want to reduce their business.
Just start the war already and stop edging us
Spent the weekend on private land blowing through thousands of rounds with my AR, Glock, and 20 caliber. I suggest everyone start going to the shooting range and get acclimated to your guns. It will be necessary soon enough. I believe that.
I did the same with a buddy that just got his first pistol, which is believe he did due to the times. I hadn't had my guns out to shoot since pre-pandemic, it was a good time to make sure everything is clean, lubed, and in working order.
Hell ya! Tell him welcome to the club! I need to take my 30-30 and 30.6 with me next time to train some folks on long distance shooting. My shoulders bruised up from firing 30 round clips in a few seconds tho. Too much fun on private land.
You ever shoot .45-70? My father-in-law had a lever action Marlin chambered in that. That was the most my shoulder has ever hurt. I fired THREE rounds through it, and I was done for the rest of the day. My shoulder was bruised for a week. Holy crap. I've shot 30-06 before, I've shot .308. I've shot crappy old 12 guages with basically no cushion to the stock. Never experienced anything like that. Never again. Pretty sure he sold it after that one outing.
At a minim getting fit. Ideally when doing some boxing. Good work out and confidence building.
The lower left picture (and other knowledge of the groups) makes me think that the upcoming resistance will be led by trans and furry hackers/coders, etc. I hope they can organize. How sick would that be if they're the ones responsible for taking down the fascists.
This is one of the more surprising reversals in leftist opinion over the last ten years.
Leftists? I don't think so. Progressives and liberals maybe, yes.
I mean, it's not exactly a new opinion. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers should be frustrated, by force if necessary
it's just quite shocking to me as a Canadian. But I can see the logic behind it.
I'm not sure how being Canadian factors into it; we still read Marx in Canada (at least, those of us on the left do)
There is none. It's just people who would never do anything in real life acting tough on the internet.
^ Prime example right there.
A prime example of what, genius? That makes no fucking sense in the context of the conversation.
look up "stochastic violence"
I absolutely believe that giving guns to everybody is a really dumb idea. But if I was living in the present day US, I'd start stocking up on guns and ammo and practice shooting.
Maybe we can just pool together money and arm the unions. Imagine how hard mass-layoffs would be if unions had a missile launcher.
If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you've already lost. None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it. You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it. If I was a conspiratorial type, I would say that making the left gun-happy is a psyop by fascists, because there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns, and fasch can't thrive in a healthy society.
Did you miss the bit where people are being ICEd?
They've already lost.
And shooting at ICE will make things substantially, distopially worse. It will either bring the true fascist regime of which this one is a pale shadow, or a civil war, and a civil war is basically an end of at least two generations, even if "good guys" win. However bad a life of a regular person is in the US right now, and it is bad for a lot of people, I can absolutely assure you, it's nothing compared to life of a person in a country where civil war is happening. Or full blown authoritarianism for that matter.
This country is already lost.
Not a single person in a position of power is willing to dethrone the oligarchs, it will only be done through violence.
Either these are the tools that will change things, or the tools that will tak out as many of the enemy as possible before they kill you.
I think we are referring to other humans with guns, which can in fact be solved by shooting them. In fact, that's SOP for SWAT, who are the kind of people you want well-armed ... assuming you also have an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy to govern them.
Root cause here is cultural. US needs denazification, according to the original pre-Putin definition of the word, exact same way post-WWII German society became... an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy
Wrong.
Fascism is here. It is not an existential threat. And fascism always has to be responded to with force. Fascists do not respond to politely phrased requests or democratic elections.
Are you unaware of WW2?
This isn't a healthy society.
Fascism isn't a guy you can shoot at. It's a social disorder, and the best food for it is an inability of people to organise, to trust each other, to form communities that will recognise attempts of autocrats to usurp the power and to take your democracy away. And among the instruments of this social erosion is this fundamental fear people have of each other. Fear that exacerbated by ubiquity of guns, in part caused by it, and made substantially worse by it. Fascists want you to think in a framework of personal violence, they want you to dream about getting into direct fights, because that's their whole world, that's where they thrive. When they come to your house to throw you to jail for thoughtcrime, they want you to respond with shooting your gun at them. What they don't want is for you to be connected to your neighbors, to your social group.
Are you by any chance a country in Europe in the middle of 20 century? Because if not, the WW2 isn't an applicable example.
Yeah, for example y'all are too obsessed with guns
It's always been the case that if you go left far enough you get your guns back.
It's true.
But you have to respond to fascism with force.
So it's a necessary reversal.
If we lived in a better society we wouldn't need to have reversed on this topic and we'd still be trying to reduce the number of firearms. But we live in a stupid society that forces us to have to arm ourselves. That's the current reality.
I'm aware, and I still believe this is a change in leftist opinion.
it's almost like people change their stances on things depending on the situation
healthy country? kids shouldn't have easy access to guns
whatever the fuck is going on right now in the us? give everybody a gun without question and let's see how it plays out. can't be worse than an authoritarian government
idk why you said "it's almost like," as though you think I'm stupid for pointing out that it's interesting that this has been a change in the left.
Doesn't seem to matter which side, both ignore that whole inconvenient militia part.
That's not what it means. The militia part is the reason why they wrote the 2nd amendment. The People is who it's for.
Armed minors you say?
"Won't someone think of the children?"
i aint ever seen police shoot tear gas at armed protesters. they left those black panthers alone.
I hope this is sarcasm.
I'm yet to hear someone defend themselves successfully with a semi-automatic against ICE.
Eh… I’m sticking with blades, Molotovs if I need to go there
While you were at the range, I was studying the blade.
Yeah armed resistance is working out great in Gaza, right?
Most times armed resistance movements are just about giving power to violent leaders. And those violent leaders of resistance movements go on to become oppressors if they ever gain power.
Needs someone in a wheelchair.
Waffen für El Salvador
If guns were the solution to minority oppression then the US would be the least oppressive place in the world.
Checks notes Apparently guns don't help, but please do tell that to the 50,000 Americans we lose every year to gun violence.
That is right every year we lose more citizens than a major conflict and that is just "normal" apparently.
The only gun control in the US is a result of the Black Panthers
The government is afraid of vulnerable minorities owning guns
There are more guns than every man, women, child, and baby in the US.
And no the only gun control is not related to the Black Panthers. There was some California gun control related to it though. It was the Mulford Act.
Are you really this ignorant of US history or are you intentionally trying to mislead people?
It is simple not all gun control is related to the Black Panthers. You implied it was. Why are you trying to mislead people?
Anyone that is unfortunate enough to stumble into this mess, please review all the conversations between Doomsider and myself. You will find he is either a bot, troll, or astroturfing. He refuses to take any stand on any matter and will only attack, deny, or accuse. He has no principles. Please ignore him and preferably, block him.
I would definitely recommend blocking this guy. He is a wanna be troll baiter. I don't mind having conversations, but it is clear this character is a political hack with a lot of rage and no answers.
I agree. That way I can continue my work against fascist apologists without interference from other fascist apologists.
Banning attachments isn't gun control.
Changing the rules on who is allowed to own guns is.
Keep pedanticly supporting fascism it's a great look.
If it doesn't prevent you from getting a gun and shooting someone with it then no, it isn't a restriction or control in a meaningful way.
Thanks for giving me another pedant to block tho
GCA and NFA are not related to the Black Panthers. It is clear you are very wrong, but that is okay.
Fascism is what brought more guns than people to my country. We lose 50k civilians every year to gun violence and you could care less. Don't even try to lecture me.
So clearly, we should stop fascism.. right?
This man is right. Doomsider is absolutely pedantically supporting fascism. Spot on.
Doesn't matter. Fascism is here. Time to get armed.
Facts don't matter? sound pretty fascist to me.
Besides, fascism has always been here. Anything else requires drinking copious amounts of Kool-Aid.
You want to complain to the manager of the fascists? Maybe this will get them to stop what they're doing? Also, if you're going to argue a point in good faith.. at least don't make it seem like we should accept fascism just because it's kind of always been around.
I absolutely detest fascism, but I also recognize that the US has always been fascist from the very start. Not only that, but the US is also the chief exporter of fascism having toppled 75 countries during the Cold War alone. It helps put things in perspective.
Your detesting of fascism doesn't stop violent fascists from killing or seizing power.
You have to actually know your enemy to fight it. Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.
You seem to be stuck in a nasty state of cognitive dissonance.
"Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical." -- Are you sure you want to stand by this statement?
You serve no purpose in your conversations other than to try to garner support for your paranoia. I notice how quick you are to point at problems, and how you have yet to offer any solutions or propose any alternatives. Nobody should engage you in any meaningful conversation for which you appear to be unable to engage in good faith. You also said this.
“Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.” - Doomsider
Now stand by your words and explain to everyone why you're not wrong without changing the subject and spouting about some vaguely related historical fact to obfuscate. Eat Crow, Doomsider.
I can support my statement with facts. All you have is feelings apparently. Cheers!
You've lost the narrative. Nobody cares what you think anymore, if they ever did. You enjoy the taste of boot leather with a sanctimonious superiority fetish. This is what you are.
I could care less about what a mentally ill wannabe fascist thinks about me. Haters gonna hate.
Since you're not messaging me, anymore, I just want you to know that I think it's really sweet of you to be able to care less for me. You've set our differences aside and become a better person than you were before. That's what life is all about.
Oh please, you are such a ham.
Man, if you need help.. just reach out. I'm here for you.
You're a fascist apologist. That's a fact. For the record, so everyone here knows what you are: Do you or do you not support using violence against violent fascists?
As I suspected, you just want to murder people just like the fascists you hate. YouAreLiterallyaFascist!
Answer the question. Don't make it about me.
Man, sure is quiet here. He responded to me elsewhere, however.. but not here. Fuckin' crickets are loud, though.
I don't see people in the US being dragged off for posting memes or engaging in wrongthink. Not yet anyway.
The US is FAR less oppressive than places like the UK and Canada.
They literally dragged off university students for protesting Isreal, and then the President threatened states that boycott Israel. You are completely wrong on the first point.
The US locks up more people than anywhere else in the world. I think you are not critically examining these issues and instead are going off of years of propaganda you have been spoon fed.
What did you do about it?
Ok, now tell me what actually happened and not the Democrat narrative.
Also the US locks up more people than anyone else in the world because we have a much larger population than almost everyone in the world. We also have a major crime problems stemming from a culture that glorified criminal activity.
I am not part of the Democratic Party so I am not sure what their perspective is. My perspective is wealthy people are controlling the messaging around Palestine. The reason they effectively shut down all college protests is to control the narrative.
This is like pro-active propaganda where you confront a problem before it becomes one. Fox News is great at this with talking heads creating the narrative to stories before they are even broken. Thus inoculating their viewers from outside opinions before they even hear them.
You are outright wrong about your analysis of our prison system. We only account for 4% of the world's population but 20% of the world's prison population.
We have a major problem with locking people up, that is for sure.
My perspective is that you're obfuscating from real solutions and distracting people with perceived problems. You have nothing of value to offer any debate or conversation. If we every want to know what's wrong with the world, you're an endless list. Ask you to take a stand on any given solution and you shut down. Why don't you have any principles, Doomsider? Instead of telling people what we shouldn't be doing.. why don't you let us all know what you think we should be doing?
Well, your perspective is just shit then I guess.
The only person who has offered up no insight or facts is you. I mean you really are coming off as pathetic at this point.
I will offer you this, as I can already tell you haven't learned any lessons from history.
You think the way to fight fascism is with violence, or perhaps more specifically to fight fascist violence with violence. This is unfortunately propaganda you have come to believe.
The crux of your belief system is probably informed by WWII and the defeat of the Nazi empire through violence. The problem is it is not all that it seems and fascism was not defeated in WWII. In fact, the Fascist country that helped to create the Nazi empire was also the one that helped end it.
Wealthy people in the US funded the Nazi party and then made sure there was no escape for the Jews. If the US was the good guy and not fascist then why did they do this? Why did US corporations help the Nazi empire?
Why did the US welcome all the Nazi scientists with open arms? Why did we continue to practice eugenics if Nazism was bad?
This is the problem of thinking a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. The truth in this situation and most others is there is no good guy.
You seem to miss the point of discussion. Instead of listening, you just have to be right. I am not joking when I say that you seem fascist yourself. You really do believe your ideology will somehow take hold after all the dusts settles. Just like every other fascist.
You're a feckless coward and fascist apologist. Do you or do you not support using violence against violent fascists? Not me. You.
Like having a pedophile rapist president with a fully loaded pedophile rapist cabinet?
Hilariously false
Hilariously true. Call Trump whatever you want and you can't be touched. Oppose the ruling regime in the UK and they send the police after you.
Hilariously untrue. You get that people ain't free in the USA right?
Well they are getting to it. Be patient!
In your mind it's far less oppressive. You clearly really have no idea.
People claim to be "oppressed" as the government passes special laws to protect them and put their flags out everywhere. In your mind you're oppressed.
Everyone is in some way part of a minority. So should everyone have a firearm?
Hell yeah
Yeah
If you are oppressed
What if you're repressed?
I think there should be some restrictions on who should own a firearm.
Tell that to German Jews in the 1930s, I'm pretty sure my great grandparents were armed.
There's a lot more to it than that.
There was widespread feeling that if they just went along with it, the Nazis would leave them alone. That was a deadly wrong assumption. There's also factors like having enough able-bodied young adults to do it when there was a need for them to take care of older people.
Forgotten Weapons has a video about a college paper he wrote on the topic. It largely shows that people in the Jewish Ghettos could get crude but workable firearms if they needed, but the factors above tended to get in the way.
As were some of the groups in the Civil Rights movement. There was a group armed and trained by a black WW2 veteran that protected families from retaliation by the KKK for going to desegregated schools. Armed with rifles and machine guns, they would put sandbag emplacements on people's porches to ensure that their kids were safe throughout the night.
Together, monkey strong. When we're divided, it's much easier to silence us one by one. And that doesn't even need guns to be involved in the equation.
Ape together strong
Harder, not impossible.
The ones that fought back often had a higher survivability rate than those that did not. Especially those that survived the ghetto uprisings to join resistance groups such as the Bielski Brothers. So while nothing was guaranteed, armed resistance did increase the odds of survival.
Nope, I’m a lifelong anti-gun authoritarian.
Good people will hesitate to shoot, an armed society just puts the worst group in charge because they don’t care about killing.
Did you just call yourself an authoritarian?
Yeah, opposite a liberal. I was satirizing the other comment.
The Black Panther Party would "politely" disagree with you. While armed to the teeth.
Tw'ain't no white racists trying to pick on black people when the Panthers were around.
Edit: Oh yeah, and J. Edgar Hoover labelled this group as a national security threat, so it has that going for it as well.
Your edit seems to contradict your comment, the most violent group did get rid of them
And do you suppose that their extermination was hastened or hindered by the fact that members were armed?
Hastened, Al Sharpton is still running around as an example of non-armed activism.
Then you are giving a complete monopoly of force to the Government, who are the ones in charge and don't care about killing. You surrender all ability to protect yourself for the hope that those in power both want to and are able to protect you.
Genuine question, how exactly do you picture this playing out? Let's say you are a homosexual married person in the US, and the right for gay marriage is overturned. Now what? How is a gun going to help you? When someone tells you "actually you're not married anymore" just shoot them? What is the plan here?
PSA: WHEN YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED BY MASKED THUGS, PLEASE DO NOT RESIST. JUST DO WHAT THEY SAY AND QUIETLY DISAPPEAR. DO NOT MAKE THE FASCISTS KNOW FEAR. REMAIN HARMLESS.
I DO NOT WISH TO SEE ANYTHING THAT THREATENS MY COMFORT OR PRIVILEGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS MATTER.
You're sincerely confused? It's clear you have no background in anything military or perhaps even psychology. It's power-projection. You've become so conditioned to believe that power-projection is only used as a tool of oppression that you're overlooking the fact that it's better to point guns than it is to face guns, and it's certainly worse to face guns without one to point back. Would you rather cede power to those who desire it than support empowering those who would wield it to protect your right to exists? You want to exist in an ideal world? Be willing to fight for it -- the ones who wish to oppress others are certainly willing to use violence to achieve their means. Once you've claimed victory over violent oppression, then you can set the guns aside and build a society around the flimsy concept of a disarmed society. Guns are still tools and have uses outside of violence, but that's outside the scope of the point I'm making.
Lib cowards want the minorities to do the dirty work for them and fight so they can get back to brunch.
I think you're missing the point. The vast majority of gun owners will never have to use their firearms in self-defense, that much is true. Most responsible gun owners also hope they never have to. It's also true that the vast majority of people with homeowners insurance will never have their house burn down, yet they still pay their insurance company every month.
Wouldn't you at least like to give yourself a fighting chance in the event that the worst happens?
Just to expand on that, there's value in just having them. The US military has developed anti-insurgent tactics over the past 20 years. One of them is that to occupy an armed populace, they expect to need one soldier for every three civilians in the area. They have to assume everyone is armed and everyone will be against them.
That would mean that if they want to put the US under martial law, they will need to mobilize 25% of the US population into the military directly and expect them to follow orders to the same level of competence as the existing military. This is a pipe dream. Approximately 10% of the US population was uniformed up in WW2, and agreement on the war was nearly universal. The draft existed not so much to get enough people, but to make sure the military could take in people at a sustainable rate without cutting too much into industrial production at home.
All combined, the regular military, the National Guard, and ICE do not have enough people to put the entire country under martial law. They don't even have enough to put New York under martial law. They might have enough for Vermont. The ICE recruiting surge won't change this.
The Green Mountain Boys, the long-standing Vermont secessionist movement, and a bunch of deer-hunting farmers with generations of familiarity with the land and a massive "mind your own goddamn business" attitude have entered the chat.
You'd think that, if you didn't know Vermont. Mass is the state you want, they have no guns, like for real. VT is liberal NH, they have plenty guns. Hell they might have an easier time with NY than VT tbh, even with the disparity in numbers between them and VT.
MA has a nonzero amount of guns.
I know they have a literal few, but fuck they fight hard to cut down on it. You'd think with all the goddamn bricks in that trail it'd remind them freedom was a thing but NOPE.
Still have family in the state. Know it well.
And you're doing even less, sweetie. Stay in your lane until you find the blinker. Ta!
You're sure trying though.
What we'll see from the 2A crowd is the same shit we've seen with the Israeli Settler movement.
Certain people are allowed to own guns. Certain people are allowed to carry them in public. Certain people are allowed to use those guns to take property, abuse political opponents, commit sexual assault, and engage in vigilante homicide. These people will be under the aegis of a friendly police and paramilitary force.
We're seeing it right now, in Washington DC. White nationalists are setting up shop in the center of town with the blessing of the Secretary of Drunkfence, Pete Hegseth.
Ever study Black Panther tactics? They were so effective that they changed the rules to make their tactics illegal.
See many leftists open carrying?
Yup
It doesn't matter how many leftists actually own guns, because "owning a gun" is a right-wing moniker.
If you see someone with a gun, they must be de facto right-wing.
??
People don't perceive carrying a gun as anything but a right-wing hobby.
Your logic is shit, if not intentionally juvenile. 🤷🏼♂️
Waste of a bullet. We'll need them for the fascists.
Because Americans have grown weak and stupid over the last 50 years.
Oh yeah, the founding fathers just put that one in there for fun...
They put it in there because a well-regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. Well, we have a military now - by far the largest in the world, in fact.
No they put it in there because slave owners were scared about slave rebellions. But let's not let that get in the way of stopping fascists.
I don't doubt that's part of it, but it's nowhere in the wording.
And you clearly don't understand what "well-regulated" or "militia" meant at the time, or any other bit of context.
There's 2 types of militia - organized and unorganized. Organized militia is the National Guard. The unorganized militia is every able-bodied man of fighting age, roughly 16-45 years old at the time. Note that the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify between organized and non-organized militias.
"Well-regulated" doesn't mean "organized". At the time, it meant properly equipped and trained. That means having a rifle, knowing how to use it, and also knowing how to survive on your own in the wilderness to some degree. All of these were pretty common in the early US's history.
There's also the broader context of US military doctrine over most of its history. Up until WWII, there was a very small standing army, mainly formed of a corps of well-trained officers (CO's and NCO's). The idea was that the country would hold a draft whenever war came, and that corps of professional soldiers would train, equip, and lead the draftees. Unsurprisingly, training draftees to fight is a lot faster and cheaper when they already have their own equipment and know how to use it.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is twofold. The first is to serve as a check against a tyrannical government by enabling an unspoken 4th branch of government made up by the populace. The second purpose is to better enable raising a military in wartime.
And aside from all of this, you are conveniently ignoring the second clause of the amendment: The Right of The People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you look at the structure of how the amendment is written, it's very obvious that the first clause is there as an explanation and that the second clause can stand on it's own.
And lastly, why are you going to a gun owners community to argue against gun ownership? You're literally going out of your way to start an argument. Get off your phone and touch grass
FFS, you got a Woody string or some shit? All you post are regurged buzzwords & FUD.
Ever read the etymology of the word "moron"?
We're in the "stock up" phase right now.
No one's going to risk their life until things get darker, which they will.
Tell us, O' wise one: wtf are you contributing, exactly? 😚
School shootings are an emergent property of our society. The proliferation of guns is a big part of the conditions, yes. That sucks, but that's just the way it is, and it's not changing anytime soon. Meanwhile, it isn't just the cops/military we have to worry about, it's ever more emboldened and maybe even "deputized" right-wing paramilitaries. Do not comply in advance. Do not voluntarily disarm yourself.
It's a hobby until the fascists are at your door.
I'm anti-gun as fuck, but you fail to understand that this is not an intelligent society that can exist without firearms. We are entering a situation where we are going to need firearms. It's as simple as that.
I'm pretty tired of school shootings, but I'm more concerned about living under fascism than I am about school shootings.
Quick question.
Are you fucking stupid?
If you are living in America you are now living in a nation with a fascist government. If you are unwilling to prepare for the worst case scenario, which is usually the case with fascist governments, then you are fucking stupid.
So I guess my question to you is rhetorical. You are, in fact, a fucking idiot.
Now, if you can't do anything other than whine like a little bitch, then shut the fuck up and let the people who are willing to prepare for that worst case scenario converse with each other while you go crawl under a rock and die like the little bitch you are.
Says the loser that literally stated in another comment that they're doing nothing.
What a stupid fucking thing to say.
Dickless pussy tells others to save them. Sounds about right for a coward such as yourself.
You're a coward that tells others to save you because you can't save yourself.
I stated in another comment that I've been anti-gun my whole life you dumbfuck. Can't be anymore. The situation has changed. You're too stupid to grasp that.
Lol. I just went through your comment history. The majority of your comments are downvoted because you're a fucking idiot. I even found the classic loser reply from you on one of your most downvoted comments where you said "downvotes are from people that know I'm right but are mad about it". A true loser response to being downvoted for being a world class dumbfuck.
You. Are. A. Loser.
it’s a current promise by the powers currently in charge. remember: the constitution is not immutable. learn that now and learn it hard.
2A is important and ownership even as a hobby is still very much important. There is nothing “defensive” about some of my guns, they exist purely to make me laugh.
I've seen "Rambo", "Rambo: First Blood II", and "Rambo III: Brave Mujahideen Fighters of Afghanistan" over six times.
I'm pretty sure I could fire an exploding arrow at any evil government officials who would try to give me a hard time.
The fact that guns have been vital to winning wars for centuries proves you wrong.
We just aren't there yet.