As for your question: I'd put it on the same level as eating roadkill or your dog that passed away. You could technically consider it "vegan", as there is no exploitation or (additional) suffering involved, but it is at least weird as fuck and kind of moot, because the people eating meat wouldn't eat it in the first place.
If you go by the literal definition, it's not vegan because eating animals is not vegan, obviously.
Lab meat is a distraction to keep consumers from changing their ways. Like hydrogen for Big Oil, they keep telling us that this technology will have a great impact ... in the future! Until then, we don't need to worry and just continue giving dirty money for a destructive product to an evil industry. All while alternatives in form of plant based meat / solar are getting better and cheaper by the minute.
Seriously, did you try plant meats in the past months? There is no need to wait for lab grown meat anymore. Just buy plant based alternatives and get used to a food that tastes mostly like the animal tissue you're accustomed to.
The cost is a big turn off for most people. At grocery stores near me, the Impossible and Beyond products are more than double the price of the meat products they are imitating. In part because livestock feed is hugely subsidized by the government.
If the plant-based meat alternatives could gain efficiency through scale and experience to lower the cost below animal meat, we would see way more people trying them and finding what dishes they work best in, which would feed back into scaled market demand. But I don't see that kind of explosive growth potential at current price levels.
Sure, this was not a political statement or anything. Only a mention that lab-grown meat can technically be seen as vegan.
Personally, I still have meat in my diet, but I do experiment with plant-based options like soy meat and seitan, and also play around with tofu and oat milk.
this is just dumb and I'm not even vegetarian or vegan. It reminds me of the kind of stuff this shitstain I went to school with would say, repeatedly and loudly to make sure as many people as possible heard him.
One of the most sinister problems is with fee-fee vegans and vegetarians, who in service of their ignorance, kill way more things to sustain their politically-motivated and fee-fee-based lifestyle.
I'm as close to vegetarian as my body will allow. I'm just calling the movement for what it is. Eat something that had a face? OMG! Flatten millions of acres, kill billions of insects, displace and kill millions of animals, farm the land with diesel equipment, ship the product in trucks 2000 miles. So vegan potato chips are on the shelves, and no worries we can wear our crocheted shoulder bags with self-assured pride!!
See the problem is the same as people who think it's still funny to joke about abusing women. Even ignoring the offensiveness, we've heard it already. A million times. It's old, really old, really uncreative. Boring.
Just like the shitty, thoroughly debunked crop deaths regurgitation. If you're going to try debating vegans, at least take a few minutes to do some basic research, cause you have no idea how repetitive this is for us.
this doesn't debunk every crop deaths argument. it only addresses an argument in the form "since animals die in crop harvesting, vegans shouldn't eat crops (or they would be hypocrites".
but the issue of crop deaths actually points to something else: people don't care if animals die in the production of their food. vegans claim to care but will eat food covered in pesticides and harvested with threshers. the mental gymnastics they go through, like writing a four part essay about how these animal deaths are actually ok, shows that they, too, are ok with animals dying in the production of their food.
We can't eliminate all suffering and harm, so we shouldn't even try reducing it? Perfect is the enemy of good. For many if not most vegans, it's about minimizing harm. Many are motivated by ecological concern as well.
Some insects die on my car's grill when I'm driving. I still go to work every day while calling myself vegan. Literally the only non-hypocritical action would be to kill myself. Forgive me if I don't.
Show me where any vegan has ever argued that these deaths are okay? Your argument is both a strawman and bad faith. It's the equivalent of when people claim anticapitalists are hypocrites because they have no choice but to participate in the existing system to survive. Cheap.
Why are vegans in particular given blame for crop deaths, when it isn't vegans who are doing the farming? We have veganic forms of agriculture that we advocate for, and practice in the case of veganic farmers and gardeners. But until that gains more traction all anyone can do is the best they can, with what they have access to - which is far less harmful and destructive than omnis.
I don't quite follow your argument. Are you suggesting it requires more cropland to make vegan food than meat? If everyone ate crop-derived foods in place of livestock-derived foods, we'd need less cropland, because livestock animals are not perfect energy converters. I.e., it takes more than a pound of feed to get a pound of beef.
Or are you saying it's hypocritical of a vegan/vegetarian to eat products of agriculture because of the damage to the natural environment and animals which reside in it? The only non-hypocritical thing for me to do in that case would be to kill myself. Forgive me if I don't. Perfect is the enemy of good, and so I'll choose to minimize harm where I can.
Some do consider it vegan, same as the "freegan" subset. There's even at least one influencer who is a bit infamous for it But there's also a few problems with this line of reasoning. It still normalizes the idea of the consumption of animal products, so it's a slippery slope at best. It's also not scalable, as soon as probably even a modest proportion of people would adopt such a diet, demand would quickly start to surpass supply which would incentivise the artificial production of more road kill.
And then there's just the why? of it. Like if we're talking about extreme situations like starvation and poverty where there is literally no other choice, okay that would make sense. But otherwise, what is so wrong with eating plants that someone would go out of their way to eat carrion instead? With the likely putrefaction involved we are talking about literal self harm to avoid eating some good ol grains and beans.
I was talking about normalization in the sense of what psychologically feels normal to a given person in question; not about what's popular. As vegan even the thought of eating an animal product is utterly bizarre and grotesque to me. You gotta take off those blood-tinted glasses to see clearly.
I was thinking bigger. Like, when some farmer wants to sell vegan beef, they could hire a company and they would discreetly supply accidents and natural causes for the farm.
Vegan burgers and substitutions are for reducing meat consumption, not enabling vegans. It is much more useful to enable the broad majority to be less harmful, rather than helping a small minority.
As a vegetarian I do want it to taste like meat. That's how you get more people to try veggie meals.
Source: me with my family.
My immediate family now eats less meat due to liking the stuff I have, and more veggie stuff in general.
Some even prefer the 'meat' burgers -Beyond, Aldi plant based etc- over their old beef burgers.
They wouldn't have even thought of trying them and be converted if they weren't any "creepy and gross" alternatives.
As someone who currently eats meat but trying to reduce consumption for environmental reasons, I 100% want a vegan burger that tastes like the real deal
Yeah, definitely improved a ton in the previous decade or so. They're not quite "there" if you want a burger for like a nice, thick, greasy medium patty in the middle. Like if you want to focus on the meat at all, then yeah, they're not there.
But.. if you just want like a fastfood type of burger with more toppings than patty, like a Whopper or something, then I'd say they pretty much are there.
I don't remember if it's exactly the beyond meat that burger king uses, but they have a nice vegan patty. One time they had Whoppers on offer, 3€ a piece, vegan and beef. Max 5 per person. I ordered 3 vegan and 2 beef I think. We ate them with my brother, and couldn't tell which was which. Turns out we probably had only them vegan burgers, but eh, didn't seem to matter that much.
So for replacing one of those thin, well done mcd/burger king generic patties? I think they're there. For replacing a patty made out of fresh meat and done to a proper medium? Yeah, they're not there.
Well technically they're right about this.
Cow eat grass, and grass is a vegetation. Cow can turn grass into meat, so technically beef is vegetarian meat.
Because the animal ag industries are some of the biggest sponsors of the republican party. Eating animal products is a great way to directly support fascism.
"we don't know... they just are." Could be a slogan for the whole meat industry.
Its from Viz magazine! One of the UKs funniest and most sarcastic publications of all time.
https://uk.pinterest.com/raadax/viz-adverts/
I adore Viz.
They once printed the finest letter ever penned.
Also, this advert for flat-roof pubs will never not make me hoot.
Ha ha fantastic!
Haha! The Princess Diana and Jade Goody ping pong ornament is fucking amazing!
Thank you! Everyone else posting here is insane
Made from vegetarian cows.
Add some lettuce and have yourself a double vegetarian meal!
We had this in texas but it's illegal now.
I think it's illegal in six other states too.
Reasons stated: Protect the economics of the cattle industry and to protect public health
No more beyond steak tips in my pasta, For the good of public health and to support the sale of real cow meat that I already never buy...
Growing meat cells in a lab and selling them as food is illegal in the states you reference.
What Beyond does in processing plant material into something that resembles some meat products is still legal everywhere.
Plant based "meats" are legal in Texas. Lab grown meat is not. Beyond is safe.
No, they’re not. They just filed for bankruptcy protection.
Ok, safe from being banned in Texas, not safe from shitty business strategy
Just got word that apparently that was misinformation. Beyond claims on their Twitter that they have not done so and aren’t planning to either.
https://x.com/beyondmeat/status/1956178067283697938
Was going to delete my comment but since you already replied, I’ll just leave it up. Sorry for the confusion.
Jokes are illegal in Texas? I guess that tracks…
That's the most vegan beef I've seen
Disappointed there's no nut in it
Just nut in it
Just put your nuts in it *
Just put nuts in it *
Question:
If I 'nut' in it for you then will it still be 100% vegetarian beef? And would you still eat it?
Depends if you're a vegetarian ofc
No. That would add pork to it.
Well... the patty is made of 100% vegan cow, therefore, vegan meat.
How do you know it was vegan?
It wouldn't shut up about it.
I saw a cow eat a baby chicken once
but the chick was vegetarian. "Well, the chick ate a worm..." but the worm was vegetarian
It’s a fucking joke, you idiots, how are so many of you this dense?
As dense as a vegetarian all beef burger.
Thank goodness it doesn't contain genuine feces, only vegan feces.
Right? Right? 🤔
Okay so on 'is poop vegan', I'll start: civet coffee. Is it still vegan?
In case you're serious: definitely not, those civets live in horrendous conditions
So do the workers who made my keyboard.
Yes, but only if you got it from a civet that is roadkill.
That's how you convert me.
Not me. I like my beef cake with nut.
So, if the steer dies of old age, surrounded by loved ones, would the beef be vegan? Sounds like the only 'logic' that could work for the ad.
The ad is fake and supposed to be a joke.
As for your question: I'd put it on the same level as eating roadkill or your dog that passed away. You could technically consider it "vegan", as there is no exploitation or (additional) suffering involved, but it is at least weird as fuck and kind of moot, because the people eating meat wouldn't eat it in the first place.
If you go by the literal definition, it's not vegan because eating animals is not vegan, obviously.
Lab grown meat, too
Lab meat is a distraction to keep consumers from changing their ways. Like hydrogen for Big Oil, they keep telling us that this technology will have a great impact ... in the future! Until then, we don't need to worry and just continue giving dirty money for a destructive product to an evil industry. All while alternatives in form of plant based meat / solar are getting better and cheaper by the minute.
Seriously, did you try plant meats in the past months? There is no need to wait for lab grown meat anymore. Just buy plant based alternatives and get used to a food that tastes mostly like the animal tissue you're accustomed to.
The cost is a big turn off for most people. At grocery stores near me, the Impossible and Beyond products are more than double the price of the meat products they are imitating. In part because livestock feed is hugely subsidized by the government.
If the plant-based meat alternatives could gain efficiency through scale and experience to lower the cost below animal meat, we would see way more people trying them and finding what dishes they work best in, which would feed back into scaled market demand. But I don't see that kind of explosive growth potential at current price levels.
Sure, this was not a political statement or anything. Only a mention that lab-grown meat can technically be seen as vegan.
Personally, I still have meat in my diet, but I do experiment with plant-based options like soy meat and seitan, and also play around with tofu and oat milk.
It could also be that the owner is named Crompton Veggie, and these are his Veggie burgers
It would depend on what definition of vegan you use
this is just dumb and I'm not even vegetarian or vegan. It reminds me of the kind of stuff this shitstain I went to school with would say, repeatedly and loudly to make sure as many people as possible heard him.
It’s literally in shitpost…
I like when people loudly broadcast that they are assholes, I tend to believe them and can steer clear of them :)
Ha "steer" hehe
Abbatoir Rd is a nice touch.
I mean... teeeeechnically beef is what a giant bovine turns plants into.
my BODY is a MACHINE that turns GRASS into HAMBURGERS
*badass photo of a cow skeleton lifting weights*
Good to see the users here are as good at recognising a joke as they've ever been.
![email protected]
Of course it's a plant, it's 100% vegetarian!
Alpha-Gal is coming for you...
"Made out of 100% real vegetarians" was the old joke
Hmmm, vegetarians.
*drooling Homer
About on par with usual omni mental gymnastics.
I was really expecting them to lean into my stupid old joke. I’m a vegetarian once removed, I only eat animals that only eat plants.
Can’t even clear that low bar of creativity.
You don't pocket mulch?
This is known as a joke.
One of the most sinister problems is with fee-fee vegans and vegetarians, who in service of their ignorance, kill way more things to sustain their politically-motivated and fee-fee-based lifestyle.
I'm as close to vegetarian as my body will allow. I'm just calling the movement for what it is. Eat something that had a face? OMG! Flatten millions of acres, kill billions of insects, displace and kill millions of animals, farm the land with diesel equipment, ship the product in trucks 2000 miles. So vegan potato chips are on the shelves, and no worries we can wear our crocheted shoulder bags with self-assured pride!!
See the problem is the same as people who think it's still funny to joke about abusing women. Even ignoring the offensiveness, we've heard it already. A million times. It's old, really old, really uncreative. Boring.
Just like the shitty, thoroughly debunked crop deaths regurgitation. If you're going to try debating vegans, at least take a few minutes to do some basic research, cause you have no idea how repetitive this is for us.
this doesn't debunk every crop deaths argument. it only addresses an argument in the form "since animals die in crop harvesting, vegans shouldn't eat crops (or they would be hypocrites".
but the issue of crop deaths actually points to something else: people don't care if animals die in the production of their food. vegans claim to care but will eat food covered in pesticides and harvested with threshers. the mental gymnastics they go through, like writing a four part essay about how these animal deaths are actually ok, shows that they, too, are ok with animals dying in the production of their food.
We can't eliminate all suffering and harm, so we shouldn't even try reducing it? Perfect is the enemy of good. For many if not most vegans, it's about minimizing harm. Many are motivated by ecological concern as well.
Some insects die on my car's grill when I'm driving. I still go to work every day while calling myself vegan. Literally the only non-hypocritical action would be to kill myself. Forgive me if I don't.
go ahead and try to reduce suffering. I'm just starting facts here.
Show me where any vegan has ever argued that these deaths are okay? Your argument is both a strawman and bad faith. It's the equivalent of when people claim anticapitalists are hypocrites because they have no choice but to participate in the existing system to survive. Cheap.
Why are vegans in particular given blame for crop deaths, when it isn't vegans who are doing the farming? We have veganic forms of agriculture that we advocate for, and practice in the case of veganic farmers and gardeners. But until that gains more traction all anyone can do is the best they can, with what they have access to - which is far less harmful and destructive than omnis.
and most people don't slaughter animals. which, by the way, is one of my firmly held beliefs: we can't blame people for something they didn't do.
You're paying for them to be bred and slaughtered, your hands have no less blood on them. What absurd mental gymnastics.
no, they're not. all the people doing that are paid long before most people buy meat.
the linked four part essay excuses crop deaths
Again, please point to anywhere in the article where it says crop deaths are okay?
that's the whole thrust of the article. only an intellectual dishonest reading could find that's not the point.
Well, jokes about rape can still be creative and funny. As long as they don't feel forced.
Edit: nobody understood my joke. 😭
No, they're really not. What is wrong with you?
So what, you gotta roofie them before telling the joke?
Wait until you find out what's eating most of those crops. (It's not humans)
people consume about 2/3 of global crop calories directly
I don't quite follow your argument. Are you suggesting it requires more cropland to make vegan food than meat? If everyone ate crop-derived foods in place of livestock-derived foods, we'd need less cropland, because livestock animals are not perfect energy converters. I.e., it takes more than a pound of feed to get a pound of beef.
Or are you saying it's hypocritical of a vegan/vegetarian to eat products of agriculture because of the damage to the natural environment and animals which reside in it? The only non-hypocritical thing for me to do in that case would be to kill myself. Forgive me if I don't. Perfect is the enemy of good, and so I'll choose to minimize harm where I can.
Well, carrion would be vegan, no?
If that animal was to die of natural causes, like sickness, lightning strike, old age, heart attack, etc. it could be considered vegan
Some do consider it vegan, same as the "freegan" subset. There's even at least one influencer who is a bit infamous for it But there's also a few problems with this line of reasoning. It still normalizes the idea of the consumption of animal products, so it's a slippery slope at best. It's also not scalable, as soon as probably even a modest proportion of people would adopt such a diet, demand would quickly start to surpass supply which would incentivise the artificial production of more road kill.
And then there's just the why? of it. Like if we're talking about extreme situations like starvation and poverty where there is literally no other choice, okay that would make sense. But otherwise, what is so wrong with eating plants that someone would go out of their way to eat carrion instead? With the likely putrefaction involved we are talking about literal self harm to avoid eating some good ol grains and beans.
Consumption of animal products is normal. For thousands of years.
I was talking about normalization in the sense of what psychologically feels normal to a given person in question; not about what's popular. As vegan even the thought of eating an animal product is utterly bizarre and grotesque to me. You gotta take off those blood-tinted glasses to see clearly.
Sounds like a "you" problem.
Nah, being vegan is great. It's all the animal abusers who are the problem.
Who are you are talking about, sweetie? 😂
Anyone who consumes or otherwise uses animal products.
Is that how it works? In that case I have some business ideas ...
You're a bit late to the party, there's an entire subculture already.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine
I was thinking bigger. Like, when some farmer wants to sell vegan beef, they could hire a company and they would discreetly supply accidents and natural causes for the farm.
As a vegan I actually don’t want it to taste exactly like meat — that’s just creepy and gross.
Vegan burgers and substitutions are for reducing meat consumption, not enabling vegans. It is much more useful to enable the broad majority to be less harmful, rather than helping a small minority.
As a vegetarian I do want it to taste like meat. That's how you get more people to try veggie meals.
Source: me with my family.
My immediate family now eats less meat due to liking the stuff I have, and more veggie stuff in general.
Some even prefer the 'meat' burgers -Beyond, Aldi plant based etc- over their old beef burgers.
They wouldn't have even thought of trying them and be converted if they weren't any "creepy and gross" alternatives.
The best vegan/vegetarian food I've had was the stuff that got away from finding substitutes for meat and just did its own thing.
I like both worlds: “traditional” vegan food as well as the processed meat substitutes.
As someone who currently eats meat but trying to reduce consumption for environmental reasons, I 100% want a vegan burger that tastes like the real deal
Do you try veggie burgers every now and then to see where it's at, at least?
Because some of them really are good. Or decent at least. Some are less than delicious, but eh.
Definitely they're improving all the time.
I do actually, the beyond burger era has been pretty good for upping the game but they're not quite there yet IMO
I'm completely with you that they're improving though, I think the smash burger style is gonna get there soon
Yeah, definitely improved a ton in the previous decade or so. They're not quite "there" if you want a burger for like a nice, thick, greasy medium patty in the middle. Like if you want to focus on the meat at all, then yeah, they're not there.
But.. if you just want like a fastfood type of burger with more toppings than patty, like a Whopper or something, then I'd say they pretty much are there.
I don't remember if it's exactly the beyond meat that burger king uses, but they have a nice vegan patty. One time they had Whoppers on offer, 3€ a piece, vegan and beef. Max 5 per person. I ordered 3 vegan and 2 beef I think. We ate them with my brother, and couldn't tell which was which. Turns out we probably had only them vegan burgers, but eh, didn't seem to matter that much.
So for replacing one of those thin, well done mcd/burger king generic patties? I think they're there. For replacing a patty made out of fresh meat and done to a proper medium? Yeah, they're not there.
We are talking burger here, not your genitals.
No, animal-burgers are definitely disturbing if you can see past your own bias.
One has severe and immediate ecological implications. Like 'next few hours' immediate.
Same. Plant-forward veggie burgers are great. Seitan is a revelation.
Well technically they're right about this.
Cow eat grass, and grass is a vegetation. Cow can turn grass into meat, so technically beef is vegetarian meat.
Not sure of you're trolling
Made with 100℅ real vegetarians!
Bruh, that's just cringe. Why is people's diet a part of the culture war?
Because the animal ag industries are some of the biggest sponsors of the republican party. Eating animal products is a great way to directly support fascism.
Well that's unfortunate.