I'm a stone mason, and I'm half way convinced that a fair portion of the posts here are at MOST five people. AMA?
The title.
Feel free to ask me stuff. I'm in Scotland, born in Canada. I've been a mason for coming on 15 years. And my favourite dinosaur is....not really a dinosaur.....the Stenopterygius species. because they're tubby not quite dolphin looking (apparently) reptiles.
131 replies
How many people have confused stone mason and Freemason when you've told them what you do?
Surprisingly only one! That one person was quite drunk.
Though my grandfather on my dad's side was a Freemason, I was never really tempted to join. That said, it would probably do wonders for my side hustle, I'm not great at selling myself. I get most of my side work from word of mouth, and really can't be bothered to make a website or FB page.
Are you on the square?
They don't know what they're doing, so I'll wager that they're not on the square, nor the level.
Are you ready to swear right here, right now before the devil?
Maybe
What's your favourite-size mason jar, and how many stones will it hold?
Shit....uhmmm.....let me check? I have the one I usually put the hot sauce I make in the cupboard somewhere. I'll get back to you!
Oh no, it shouldn't take a day to get to the cupboard and back. I think OP is dead or maybe just incapacitated or napping.
I've not been sleeping well and working 16 hour shifts. Even at my best my memory is not great. Thanks for reminding me about the mason jar, I'll check the cupboard when I get home from buying lunch.
@[email protected]
I'd say it'll hold 3-150 stones
Does sand count as stones?
Glad you're still alive, bud.
Does it? It counts as aggregate, and so does small stones and pebbles. What's the cut-off for the transition to sand from stone? I'm positive that some nerdlinger drew a line in the scale and said "past this is sand!"
I am highly skilled at pedantry and enjoy challenging arbitrary lines. I bet there's even a way to argue that we're all stones or made up of the same stuff as them.
I appreciate people who commit to the bit. Have an upvote.
The numbers, mason, what do they mean?
Bro....if you don't show me the numbers...I can't help you out...
Oh, sorry.
.....yeah....I got nothing fam 🤷
Oh so you're a stone mason? Name 3 stones!
No seriously, what's your favourite stone to mason?
Right. So most of what I worked with in Canada was granite and basalt. And the style of Random we mostly did back home is a very different kind of Random Rubble than what gets done here in Scotland. Third picture.
Pictures below 👇
Can't really say what's my favourite stone. I miss doing stuff like what's in the first and second picture in granite. There's a lot of sandstone and whinstone(this is kinda a catch-all, includes: basalt and dolerite [igneous] and chert [sedimentary]) used in the part of Scotland I'm in.
I guess my favourite stone to work with is the one that looks really fucking good when I'm done?
Below is not something I built, it's a maintenance job. Remove the fucked mortar and repointing with new.
Those are some pretty walls.
❤️
Question coming from complete ignorance: are you picking through a big pile of stones to find the ones that fit a gap or are you cutting them to fit (or both)? Also, are you a Mason (like a member of the illuminati group)?
Both, but it also depends on what style of stone is being laid. The examples I've put up are all random. For ashlar you'll have either a set pattern of sizes, or a small selection of sizes. You'll still end up cutting pieces smaller due to needing a proper bond and keeping the pattern.
I am not a Freemason.
Need your professional opinion on something: what's the best way to undermine the 12ft curtain wall protecting my enemy's fortress?
My great-grandfather was a stone mason. My office happens to be inside a (non-military) wall he built.
Do you have access to explosives?
I am advised by legal counsel to say no.
You clearly pay them well enough for the good advice you get.
Tunnel under the wall if you can, light a giant fire, or your not explosives.
How do masons feel about Freemasons?
Well. The Freemasons started in Scotland. It's generally accepted that the first Freemason temple was the Chapel at Stirling Castle. There's some masons I've met here that think the Freemasons have the registry of Mason's Marks. They may have in the past, but I believe that currently the Worshipful Company of Masons holds most of the UK's mason's marks. Could be debatable, the English gonna empire after all.
A mason's mark was used to show who cut the stone, and who fixed it. It was how masons were paid for what they'd done.
In modern times the Freemasons is....a boy's club. There's likely very few actual masons who are members. Where I am in Scotland, most of the lodges are within a short walk from a police station,or what used to be one.
From the few conversations I had back home about them the general consensus is that it's a bit of a joke that their "secret knowledge" is mostly just masonry best practice.
Don't forget the super secret handshakes
And pretend acting out the killing of Hiram.
😬 fact check: true
🤦 I had. In my defence I was tired AF when I was answering questions, and something like super secret handshakes isn't something I think about very often.
Haha I was just playing, I just think the handshakes are hilarious, especially how serious they take them
Fair enough 🤣
They are pretty silly aren't they?
What kind of stone is this?
I'm not a geologist. And that rock is covered in dirt. Probably not sedimentary as there's no obvious striations. 🤷 Granite?
Electrician thinking of moving to Scotland from US. Any advice?
Make sure your certs are valid here, as soon as you're able to take the CSCS safety course, and get your trades card. Cost of living isn't insane, but wages are pretty low. Do not expect to be able to purchase alcohol at a shop before 10am or after 10pm.
Here's a link to figure out how your qualifications stack up in the UK.
Luckily for me I don't drink
Unluckily for me weed is basically legal here and not there...
Buddy... it's even worse than you think....maybe... depends on the quality and price you're used to.
I stopped smoking(read as buying) weed here.
Point 2:
Having grown up in Vancouver, and knowing quite a few people who grew professionally, some of which still do, before legalisation. The ganja available here is both mid-A/AA and incredibly expensive....and dry as fuck for the most part.
For the quality of weed I would have paid MAYBE $60/oz back home (before legalisation), unless you know a guy, and are really willing to be picky, you're going to likely pay between £190(Scotland from what I've seen) to £380(mostly London, but I've seen stuff in the north be that pricey too).... Which...I'm just not really willing to pay that. And also the whole wife thing.
If you make it out this way DM me.
Seeing as Scotland and Canada share a lot of place names, what's your favourite place that you've been to both the Scottish and Canadian versions of? (Nova Scotia does not count)
So. Surprisingly? Canada is quite large! I have yet to be to a place in Canada that shares its name with a place in Scotland, and ALSO the place in Scotland. I'm from Vancouver, so West Coast (bestcoast) of Canada, and there's a few....
I've been to a bit less than half, and not a single one of the Scottish namesake.
Though, every time I go to the Highlands I'm struck by just how very much it looks like BC....just a wee bit more wee....
That's totally fair! I am Scottish myself and don't know a lot about Canada's geography beyond "big", "often cold", and "lots of forest", so I have no idea if those Scottish place names are concentrated in specific areas, not to mention what the chances of both versions being interesting to visit. Banff is probably the first example that comes to mind, but the Canadian one isn't in BC and the Scottish one is just a pretty little seaside town in Aberdeenshire so not exactly a destination in its own right unless you're already nearby
You may already know this, but the Scottish highlands actually were formed when Canada and Britain collided! The wrong side of Canada, but still
Regardless, I hope you're enjoying being here
I did! It's one of the tidbits I pull out when I'm feeling socially awkward and think I should probably say something!
Here's a tidbit in exchange:
There's a tiny little triangle -ish bit of the centre of Scotland that DOESN'T have windblown rain. This is important to know for choosing the right line for your mortar mix. Lower grades of lime take a lot longer to cure, so for faces of a structure that are exposed to windblown rain should be built or repointed with NHL 3.5 or 5. They give the quickest cure time, and are more resistant to weather sooner.
If I can find the notes from the course I took last year I will update you with where that wee triangle is 👍
We were living in London for the first few years after I moved, and I thought it was quite good. After moving up the way I realised that the only really good bits were the few friends I had, and the selection of food.
No offence, but there's a distinct lack of decent anything but white people food.... often deep fried.
I very much miss coming home pissed and being able to order Ghanaian, or sushi, or mexican.
Other than those 2 things? It's the most home feeling place I've lived since I moved from Canada.
Oh, that is quite interesting. I'd hazard a guess it's somewhere east of the mountains, so probably somewhere around Perth?
Yeah, I totally agree on the food situation unfortunately. There's a Ghanaian lady that shows up at a farmer's market near-ish me once a month and I love getting her jollof rice. I mostly just accept that if I want something out of the ordinary for this place, I need to make it myself
You're probably right about it being near Perth.
Glasgow has some good options, Edinburgh is getting better, but they're so much smaller than London that it's a pure numbers issue. There's just not enough people.
What's your favorite hammer?
I have a 7kg mini-sledge. That's my favourite.
My favourite that I actually use regularly is an Estwing 2.5kg lump hammer, it's my daily driver, and also the tool I've had the second longest. Got it from one of my tradesmen (one of the guys who trained me) as a gift when he moved back to Germany from Canada.
I was half way hoping you'd say Estwing... I love their hammers. I have two of their cross peens that I used for (backyard, redneck) blacksmithing for years that still get use any time I need some girth/weight and one of their "masonry" hammers that I use for stone work (again, backyard/redneck shit).
Their 3/4 axe (I think they call it a camp axe) is also solid.
I have an Estwing brick hammer that gets some use, but not nearly as much as the lump!
Estwing just makes good shit. Or did. I don't own any Estwing stuff newer than a decade old.
Hmmm.....might have to have a look at the camp axe 🤔
What’s your recommendation on replacing a farmhouse style sink that’s set in a stone countertop (I think it’s quartz). We believe the countertop was placed on top of the sink, which makes removal difficult as there’s small lips on either side of the sink. I believe those lips could be removed but not sure the best way to go about it safely without damaging the rest of the countertop or lungs.
Send me a pic? Top and bottom of where the counter meets the sink.
Best one I’ve got at the moment. Basically it’s but much overlap if we wanted to move the sink out.
The sink is likely sitting on a frame, probably wood. There should be clips holding it in place under the counter top. It should be as simple as removing the screws/bolts on the clips, cutting the seal around the edge, and lift-sliding it out.
If you send me a picture of the underside at one of the sides I'll be able to get a bit more specific.
Hey friend!
My dad is a master mason and has been working for 30+ years.
I don't have any questions, but I advise you to have a backup plan. My pa is in his 50s and has obliterated all of the tissue padding between the joints in his hands from all of his work. He's freaking out because he doesn't have any apprentices that are willing to work so hard, so he's pretty much out of options and unfortunately too poor to just retire.
So, y'know, have a plan B.
Way ahead of you. I technically work for the government doing conservation on historic monuments. Tidy pension, salary wage, not pressed hard, and possibly moving into a management position soon. I miss the outside world, and the sedentary pace here fucks me off, but it's well easier on my body.
The thing with apprentices is absolutely real. We just had an apprentice who has essentially fired himself. He's got talent, if he wasn't so up his own ass with entitlement and had an actual work ethic, he could be the real McCoy. And that's around half the apprentices I've dealt with. I'd love to blame it on the youth and lack of gumption or whatever, but it's just people not wanting to work hard....
What led you to being a stone mason
I answered this in a couple other comments. So I'll give you the TL;DR:
Worked in a warehouse, was bunk, walked out at lunch because fuck those hosers, called a friend to complain and turned out the masonry firm he worked for was hiring.
What are your thoughts on the issue of dust with cultured stone, is it similar for real stone as well?
So beyond my opinion on the existence of (un)cultured stone at all? It's probably a bit worse than the harder stones( granite, basalt, slates) and about on par with stuff like sandstone and limestone.
"Cultured" stone is an affront to nature, and no one who calls themselves a stone mason should be willing to install it....unless the price is exceptional...
What it started out as, and is still claimed (falsely, for the most part) to be, was ground up stone that was deemed "unusable" that is mixed with cement and cast into a small assortment of shapes. For the most part, in my experience, cultured stone today is literally just precast concrete that MIGHT have a dye added integrally, but is likely dusted on after being removed from the mold but before it fully cures. It's lifespan is very short. It's colour fades within a few years if not sooner. And most of the people who install it do subpar work.
Thank you for your insight.
No worries dude! Do. Not. Accept. Inferior. Materials!
Fuck cultured stone.
Those pictures are amazing.
Do you run into trouble with permits and Inspections because that type of skilled work can't be very common. Or is it?
Not yet! In my day to day job things are heavily dictated by engineers and architects. And when what jobs I take on the side actually require permitting and inspection I pay an engineer to go over my design and confirm I'm within regulation and the customer is required to get the appropriate permits and schedule inspections.
Masonry is kinda dying. In Canada it's considered unskilled labour. So no certs, no training other than what you get on the job. The UK has a few different certificates depending on what country. England has a Vocational Qualification for Fixing(installation) and used to do multi-trade, Banker/Fixer(cutting/carving and installing), but have recently moved Banker to an arts bachelor. Scotland is still has a multi-trade qualification, but it's actually really really hard to get. You need to have a quota of stones you have carved, but they need to be installed on a building. There's also very few colleges left in Scotland that even offer a masonry course.
I guess what I'm getting at is that there's a lot of cowboy outfits, and not many masons that do an actually good job. Fewer people are willing to get into it, and there's more people just kinda winging it.
Are you really good at sand castles?
Absolutely horrendous at sand castles.
How did you get started as a stone mason?
Bonus: what made you first consider it seriously as a profession?
As I said in a different comment:
For the bonus: I left and did other stuff here and there, few years of demolition, but always ended up back at a masonry firm. I'm good at it. It's heavy work, but there's a lot of thinking involved. Sometimes you spend 3 times as long thinking about how a stone is going to go in around various obstructions without damaging anything than it takes to actually fit the stone. It's mentally stimulating and physically taxing. I guess to take the long way to answering your question, I always wanted to do masonry as soon as I started it. I only left for something else due to shitty bosses.
Favorite and least favorite stoner joke?
So, not a joke, but a real lived experience. And then after a Stoned Mason joke.
My best friend at the time, his gf, and myself had eaten....a substantial dose of mushrooms. We'd started at 10 am and were catching the last bus from the city to the town we lived in, was just about 1am.
So it's the 3 of us, we were all around 20, and a probably 40ish year old grung-punk skater on the bus. We were all sat at the back, having a chat and the following:
Guy:
One of us:
Guy:
Us:
Guy:
My own thoughts:
Stoned Mason Joke
This took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out was actually a joke.
So my old work/business partner back home is...a character.
Was a mega rockerboy through the 70s and 80s, plays bass with the same band he's played with since '78.
He's got some bits he likes to do. Ozzy, Jagger, what I'm pretty sure is the English guy from the first Wayne's World.
We're working away. He picks up a stone to install and inspects it. Then he says, in an absolutely...and I mean horrific, English accent:
How much does brick and a half weigh?
Who would win in a fight Freemasons or Stonemasons?
What kind of brick? I happen to be at work, and there happens to be both a scale and an old Red Stock brick, they don't make those ones anymore, but the one I had on hand weighed in at bang on 4kg.
Edit: newer bricks tend to be a lot lighter. An engineering brick, which has holes in it, is likely less than a kg
Edit²: forgot about the smashup! Stonemasons for sure. Most of the Freemasons I've met have been a bit on the older side, and quite unfit. Also stonemasons have a wide selection of hammers, crowbars and trowels. And honestly I am not entirely sure which of the three would suck the least to be hit with. Hammers and bars are obviously blunt force trauma....but I've cut the ever loving fuck out of myself reaching into my bag and forgetting to be careful of the trowel. 12 stitches!
Name one of your favorite lunches for stone masoning. Why is that one in the list of faves?
I don't really have one. I'm fond of sandwiches, because they're easy and quick to make in the morning. Today I had a salad with leftover smoked salmon from my Canada day BBQ and feta on top with a vinaigrette I made.
As the fifth of five people.... How did you know?
There were pretty obvious signs
Well shoot. We were aiming to create an impression of a big group of us - like if there were 40 or more of us.
Better luck next time 🤞💪
Do you think it's possible that stone masonry is, adjusted for inflation, more expensive today than it was a hundred years ago despite improvements in technology? I.e. Cheaper, shorter lived building materials/techniques generates reduced demand for stone masonry, causing fewer stone masons like yourself to exist and ply the trade, increasing scarcity and therefore cost.
Edit: also, huge admiration for your trade. I love stonework and wish it were more common.
I don't really think so, my business partner back home was getting $50/sq.ft when he started on his own in the early 80s. Now you're going to struggle and fight to get paid $20/sq.ft, at least in Vancouver. So the masons are being paid less now than 40 years ago not even adjusting for inflation. And our wages used to include beer basically everywhere in the world, through all time periods until around the 1900s.
I imagine there's a basic set of skills every mason has to have to be called a competent mason. But more advanced skills aren't necessary. What skills did you develop that you really worked hard on? What some skill that really impresses you that you don't have in masonry?
Being able to guesstimate basic maths, measuring and then cutting exactly to that measurement, being able to semi-accurately gauge out a mix consistently. Most importantly, you need the willingness to do a hard shift, it can be brutal work sometimes. Everything else is icing.
A skill I worked really hard on was grinder dexterity. Being able to cut a straight line is actually a lot harder than one might think. And then polishing with a grinder, it's finicky, really easy to accidentally put a huge divot into a face.
Not really sure about a skill I'm jealous of. I'll have to come back to that.
What's the biggest thing you ever made? Which work are you the most proud of?
And how are you received as a Canadian in Scotland? Do they treat you alright?
Do you have midges in Canada?
Biggest:
This is one wall on a 7 tower site. If I remember right it was close to 75000m²(800ksq.ft-ish). Myself and 4 other masons rocked it.
Proudest:
The customer had to be talked out of going with 1mm joints. They settled for 5-10mm. This is cladding, pin and bracket mechanical. If it had been full depth stone, 200+mm, we probably could have done it. The stone was more in the range of 75mm+/- and we needed the room to accommodate the brackets.
Dude, these are SO fucking cool!
I see you do outside stone work. Ever do housing interior stone? Like granite or stone counter tops for houses? Stone on outside of houses? Anything residential?
How often do you get laid because of your stone mason expertise?
Yep, I take as much interior work as I can get! Most of what I've done in my career is "residential". Though that's kind of a stretch as most of the homes I was working on were multi-milion/billion dollar properties. I now work in conservation, and do side jobs occasionally.
I'll have a look through all my old pictures tomorrow and see if I can rustle up a pic or two of interior work I've done.
How long did it take you to understand the country accent?
Surprisingly not that long. I still struggle with some things. Like I recently discovered that I have been using the term "The back of 4"(put any hour of the day in) incorrectly. I had thought, probably because my friends I'd made when I first moved over, that the back of whatever means just before the following hour. In actuality it means between the hour but before half past.
I can only assume that no one has corrected me because they either assumed I had the punctuality of a half dead tortoise, or they also were never on time.
Once in a while I will have to ask someone to slow down or enunciate. D'nue was a bit tricky for me. It's actually The Now. As in:
You going to be here soon?
Bit late, just on the bus d'nue.
Scot here (Edinburgh), and I'd usually only use "Back of 4" to mean a few minutes past, maybe ten minutes at most. Same as "just after 4".
May vary though depending on where in Scotland you go :-)
That was how it was explained to me...3 days ago. 5...5 entire years I've been using it wrong. 🤦
'Stenopterygius' is an anagram of 'I get stone syrup' or 'Gutsy Stone pier'
I didn't know that, but now I'm telling everyone I came up with it!
I found out my fieldstone foundation mortar turned to dust. I removed everything from my basement and have been tuck pointing for the last several months. It is a hard slog and slow going. I am not a mason but am doing this by necessity (i.e., I'm a fixed pension senior). It is amazing what I have learned from my "practice" wall and YouTube videos. I imagine if a real mason had a look they'd shake their head but it looks good to me and I am over halfway through. Changing out the windows was a learning experience as well. I never did anything like this before but as I am getting closer to the finish line, pride from hard work that pays off is starting to appear.
I'd actually love to see it! It's quite a pain in the process, but the satisfaction of the job done is beyond compare.
Happy to give some pointers.
Thank you for your offer of advice. If I have any questions I'll most certainly take you up on that! All the best.
No trouble at all 👍 always happy to help.
What are the major hazards involved in stone masonry? How did you get involved in the field?
Silicosis is one of the biggest hazards. It happens when ultra-fine particles of silica dust get breathed in and cause scarring on the lungs. It's spooky shit.
Other than that there's the usual dangers of working with large heavy materials and power tools. There's a high risk of Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome and arthritis from swinging a hammer at a chisel for hours on end.
Honestly just kinda fell into it. Was working in a warehouse and hated it. Just walked off one day, called a friend just to complain about it and the firm he was working for happened to be hiring. I was 18, I'm now a few months away from 40.
What are the cool and interesting tools in stone masonry?
I know a reasonable amount about metal and wood working tools, so I imagine CNC cutting and engraving have added some interesting new options, but I really have no other guesses
Diamond wire saws are neat, if Google hadn't completely fucked search for everyone I could probably find an article I pulled out back on Reddit. If I recall correctly, there's evidence of twine and fine sand being used in the bronze age to cut dimensional stone. Squared blocks.
I don't trust CNC to cut stone. They're fine for simple stuff, but there's always extra work on CNCd stone to get it to fit properly. And I definitely wouldn't trust it to cut something like a Corinthian capital.
Human ingenuity is by far the coolest tool in any trades person's bucket. As you encounter new problems, you Jerry rig a new tool. Need to cut the inside of a hole basically 90° from the face? Get a piece of steel, bend it and sharpen it. BAM! New cool tool specifically made to do a job!
have you played dwarf fortress
Fuck yeah I have! Am I any good at it? Not so much.....
I salute you for the informative responses here, and for bringing some variety to the community by talking about a topic that isn't carried by sensationalism.
Do you have a mason's mark?
Thanks! This has been really fun!
Life's interesting enough without having to revolve around drama, too many people watching too much daytime TV....smfh
I do have a mason's mark, I haven't registered it though.
What's your favourite stone building?
The Scott Monument, on Edinburgh's Princes Street, is pretty cool!
what do you think happens when we die?
Hmmm....I think it'd be nice if there was something after, not convinced there is. I'm perfectly happy with returning my substance back to the earth. I asked my wife to arrange a sky burial....turns out that's not exactly legal here in the UK....
i love sky burials! but yeah, short of dying IN tibet it’s hard to swing.
after a little searching i found out there aren’t any human body farms in the uk either, but y’all do have a fascinating history of open air pyres. apparently they’re tentatively legal!
Doooooope! I was going to settle for cremation, so why not go out like a boss on a pyre!
Do you mean on c/AskMeAnything? or lemmy.ca in general? I'm new here.
On AskMeAnything.
Community c/AskMeAnything is hosted on Lemmy.ca and most of Fediverse (Lemmy and similar software) can connect to Lemmy.ca to interact with this post. Anyone who can see it should be welcome to interact. (With the community rules in mind)
I hope you enjoy your time here. You can always ask in [email protected] if you don't understand something.
What are 3 current buildings you would like to work on and what 3 that no longer exist would you have loved to see in person?
Also because you are a Canadian in Scotland, here a story about an absolute madlad from Scotland who walked across Canada. Walked. With his dog.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-national-michael-yellowlees-cross-canada-walk-1.5322480
Has anyone ever tried to get you to make a peridotite wall facing, or countertop?
😞 nope. It'd be cool as fuck though! I would love to use it as like an accent on a fireplace or on a wall. I think it would match really well with a dark granite or a lighter basalt.
Have you seen Lodge 49, what do you think of it?
I have not. Should I?
I just kinda think it's a few people making a new account for every "sensational" idea they get. So, yes?
I wish i had the energy for that, truly
Me too fam....me too
If you were suddenly fabulously wealthy, would you continue to work in stone, or quit and never look back?
If I was fabulously wealthy I would take time off to build my own house. Not often I get the chance to design and build something!
Do you know Angus?
Which one?
Y’know, the Big Yin.
You have no idea how little that narrows it down