I understand that there are hardships linked to our condition, but many of them are not caused by our condition, rather by the world not willing to accomodate us the same way they accomodate NT's.
That's the same with most disabilities. For instance, blindness does have some intrinsic hardship, but then it also has the hardships that come from a society that assumes you have vision and does not accommodate you.
For some people absolutely, but “day-to-day life” is built to not only serve “neurotypical” people but generally to make sure the worst of them don’t need to actually improve anything. Pretty much entire concept of “polite society” and the cowardly basis behind so many instances of “that’s just how we do it ok?!” are rooted in people who cannot effectively communicate blaming you for not being exactly like them and/or afraid to speak up against their authority. People who “don’t understand social situations”, in my experience, are often just people who have a harder time letting assholes steamroll though and like, yea it sucks for them when society punishes them but it’s not their fault that society is a collection of highly flawed rules whichbessentially boil down to demands to not question authority.
Some autustic people have genuine problems that give them problems even when/if those around them have the patience to work with them. Many just make certain worthless people insecure and that’s not their fault.
Yeah we're different to NTs, we have different perks but defecates in lots of areas.
I fit in well enough but notice where I've said something that's quite specific to my interests or believed something that was obviously a joke. Shit sucks but every day it gets easier, lean into it and don't be afraid to be yourself.
We're not normal but fuck it we ballin'
edit: leaving the autocorrect in, was a ~1am post for me 🫠
I'm not normally one to point out a spelling mistake, but there is a very important difference between someone with deficits in lots of areas and someone who defecates in lots of areas.
This is kind of the core question of disability, I think. What is disability if not a mismatch between your own way of navigating and functioning vs assumed normativity? If your own way of navigating and functioning was the assumed normative mode, would you still be "disabled"? A lot of our societys normative behaviors can in some way be hindering to those exhibiting them, but society is ready to provide full support to compensate for such things as they are a part of the normative mode. It's a fun thought experiment to consider how difficult it might be for a more or less normative person to function in an autistic society that only recognized and provided for normative brains to the degree that our own society provides for autistic brains. And on that note - Would an autistic society be better at providing for those people than ours does for us? Or would we close ranks around a new normativity the way that our own too often does?
The neurtypical urge to agree what the autist is saying is correct, but refuses to accept it or act on it because they don't like the way they are being told about it, then to in the end blame the autist when the predicted catastrophe comes because 'you didn't try hard enough to convince me'
It has brought be very close to being arrested more than once and I'm sure I'll be in jail over this in the fullness of time.
IT is fun until management comes in and wrecks the place with a load of time-consuming demands absent any reasoned justifications beyond things that don't concern IT.
I thought going into engineering would be a better environment for this kind of questioning. It turns out my toddler-level frequency of "Why?" transcends bachelor level expectations, thus I must pursue even higher education.
Walking into a contract with uncurious junior engineers was frustrating to say the least.
Engineering, in general (not talking about programming) is a super conservative field. It's crazy how many people I run into that are clearly intelligent, but have just been so silo'd into one field that they have no understanding of anything practical outside of their field.
Not when you get to the level of 'The guy they call when the grid goes down' level like my grandpa. The kind of intricate and expansive knowledge needed to address those issues is just the kind of mind fire I desire
He was deeper on the spectrum than me by a wide margin, honestly I have no idea how he managed to be so successful going diagnosed and unassisted his whole life. I bet his wives had a lot to do with it.
Considering his work for Pratt & Whitney I'd guess he had the certs for engineer but he was also ridiculously proud of the fact he 'came up through the ranks' so identified more as a Master Electrician.
When he heard I went to college for CS he considered it a waste, I guess he grew up in a world where competence was enough. Not like that anymore
Peeing is also normal behavior. But it's not normal if you have to pee every 30 minutes.
What's with this new trend of invalidating ADHD and autism symptoms simply because you don't experience it to a degree that impacts your quality of life?
ADHD and autism don't have one specific symptom. It's a thousand little things that drive you insane from having to conform to neurotypical behavior.
Let patients share their experiences without normalizing and invalidating their condition.
It's always 'everyone has ADHD these days' just like how people day 'everyone is LGBTQ these days. It's never 'underserved and underdiagnosed ADHD patients are finally getting recognition these days'.
Boys are 16x more likely to get an ADHD diagnosis than girls. The vast majority of backlash against ADHD patients on social media are against women and PoC who are finally speaking out against the medical neglect. Women traditionally present different symptoms because girls are punished more heavily for exhibiting ADHD behaviors than boys are. Same goes for autism.
Remember that a lack of diagnosis does not indicate the lack of ADHD and autism. Modern medicine is rife with systemic inequality. Undiagnosed ADHD and autism patients are frequently penalized and not rewarding for concealing their symptoms. The more effort they put into concealing them, the more heavily criticized they are for 'faking' it.
I see you guys are taking this way too seriously so ok... I'm not invalidating anything, and for that matter I haven't noticed any such trend in media either.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that attributing "normal" behaviors to ADHD and autism is ultimately what invalidates these conditions.
My initial comment stemmed from me seeing meme after meme about ADHD and being like, wait I'm like that too, maybe I have it. But then as this trend goes on I observed that most of the people I know also have - to some degree - most symptoms mentioned in said memes.
In short I bet if one were to base the description of ADHD on the memes going round, most people could get a positive diagnosis.
My personal opinion is that this has to do with societal expectations when it comes to education and employment as they have developed over the last couple of decades.
We are slowly recognizing that our capitalist way of life with its pursuit of infinitely increasing productivity is not in line with human nature thus we're "creating" this condition that somehow everyone is suffering from to attribute feelings of inadequacy.
Adhd in particular is a very "everyone can relate, only people with adhd have their lives crippled by it" thing. To some degree this applies to many mental disorders (e.g. everyone has some anxiety).
The need to know why is clearly not a normal thing or I wouldnt have had the frequent experience of people getting mad at me for demanding the why or, which is still utterly confusing to me, for explaining the why when asking someone to do something.
Usually when it's things that are "socially expected" but don't make sense to me in that moment. Like being asked to wait with eating food until everyone has some (still don't really get it, but "it's a social norm and people will feel bad" is sufficient for adult me since it's really nbd. As a kid no one even explained that far though, just that it'a a thing you do because you do.).
In general as an adult its been pretty rare since I've learned it's not worth the effort (and whatever if it makes people happy then cool), and if I really don't wanna do something I consider pointless (like wearing a suit - which I'd first have to buy - to a wedding in 30° heat as someone who is already very uncomfortable in shorts and t shirt in 22°) people are more likely to respect it because they can't really force me anymore.
I do think the more common one (that still happens a bunch) is when providing the why, or more generally when providing extra information. It seems to me people often assume I'm overly criticizing when I do that. Like "can you add this thing to the sheet I think it'd be helpful when <3 sentences of the context in which I think it's good to have>" tends to get worse reactions than "can you add this thing to the sheet I think it'd be helpful".
So same as the food thing, maybe it's more about wanting far more detailed explanations than about wanting one at all. But to me the less detailed one often doesn't feel like a real explanation, moreso a justification.
The other day we went to the gym with a friend and afterwards he said let's go eat at the food court. We each got stuff from different restaurants and he got his first, so he went to get a table while I was waiting for my food. As soon as he sat down he started eating so 3 minutes later when I got there he'd finished half his meal.
I didn't appreciate that because the whole point was to have a chill chat whereas now he was done and I felt like I had to rush because I was wasting his time with my tardiness.
Glad I now have friends that are entirely in agreement that waiting is pointless.
I would highly disagree it signifying you as anything special, it's a random ass social norm that serves no real purpose. But yes as I've said I'm well aware how it makes some ppl feel so I wait when eating with anyone I don't know well. And sure it's not hard now, which is the part where I mentioned this kind of thing mostly happened when I was a kid.
Honestly that reaction is just proving my point lol
It's a reference I didn't think you'd get but maybe someone else wasting their time reading this whole conversation unfolding under this silly little meme might enjoy.
To use your logic, you don't get to decide how I interpret the responses to my comment.
So if you don't like what I said you can give me your little downvote and kindly fuck off unless you have some meaningful retort about my actual opinion on ADHD & autism diagnoses.
To use your logic, you don’t get to decide how I interpret the responses to my comment.
That's correct. So if you felt like others were taking your words too seriously, then say that. Without the reflection at yourself, in the English language you're telling others how they should be feeling rather than saying how you feel. I hope a grammar misunderstanding is all that really was.
And for the record, I do regret coming on so strong. I've been stressed today and this is not the first time in the past 24 hours I've realized too late that I could have been more diplomatic. So, sorry about that.
What’s with this new trend to label normal behavior as somehow related to ADHD or autism?
That's always been around.
Another example: having enough interest & focus to get good at something difficult.
When someone suggests that isn't normal (rather than a natural result of persistent effort & willpower), it really indicates to me a shortcoming in whoever believes that (why don't they think they could do the same if they seriously tried? are they a moron?).
Always. I always must understand why something needs to be done before I do it. Rare exceptions in people I have an absolute trust to make decisions for me.
Everyone has a different amount of curiosity for different things. Just because someone doesn’t want to know how a carburetor works doesn’t mean they aren’t interested in other things.
Also curiosity can be a luxury. Some people are very focused on following the beaten path because they think it might be safer. Start asking questions and rocking boats and you might cause problems. Curiosity killed the cat and all that. Over a lifetime people settle into their own groove of curiosity and satisfaction.
Or persist in a series of varying thoughtless reactions, whether lashing out or simply engaging without stopping to think with 'depth'.
Though, I've also come to understand many people seem to have no model for cognitive engagement. Like, "How do I think about this situation I'm in?". So, I try to give some grace, but, ffs, what the damn... I wish more people would just physically stop, physically pause, and think before doing something which just causes a bigger problem. Like gd, why is everyone in my family like this...
Well we know how they lived and their culture (as always it depends on the region), how they dressed.
Religion wise, we know they had similar gods to to the norse/north germanics (skandinavia. You know thor, odin, frija, loki aso). They put people into the swamp. Criminals and religiouse human saceafises. We know that its religiouse human sacrafises because there are also animals and tools found in swamp beds.
Burrials and funerals were different to each region and tribe. Many in the south and north west burried their people in hills, like the celts. The bodies sometimes were put in specific positions.
As the romans arrived, these practises noticeablely changed. Building dedicated buildings, giving offerings and money.
From what i have also read is that cremetion and burning the body was also a common practise.
But how they really worshipped, and their mythologie we have nothing on as faar as i know.
Idk if that is true but i think we also know that they, also had some spiritual leaders. Oracles. Young virgin woman that could predict the future threw bones, weather speak to the gods and stuff, that had a set place where they lived and rulers traveled to them.
Things are waaayyy worse with the celts though. We know they had these druids. But we do not know what their job in society was. We guess they were spiritual leaders, maybe also medical, maybe diplomatic. The druids were not just a closed off people. Didnt write anything down themself, the forest was holy and no one but druids was allowed to be at their meetings and in their forrest.
I am working on a mod for a game (and applying that same knowledge to a game later on)
So lots of theologie research. Its crazy.
There was a group of christians in the Mesopotamian delta in the early centurys of christianity, that saw incest as a holy ritus because adam and eve were siblings and therefore performed incest
I’m really curious about this too. We know that the Angles, Saxons and Jutes brought their gods to the British Isles - we have the days of the week Tir’s-day, Wodan’s-day, Frigg’s-day - but the Romans had already supplantdd the native Britons’ druidic traditions with Christianity. We already know little enough about this period of history but basically the only surviving writing we have about it is by Christian scholars like Bede written after the fact, with all their biases.
This is a tough one. I have an autistic child. I love that they’re curious, but sometimes, for all of our safety, I can’t explain why I need them to stop talking about a dangerous subject… for now.
Great. I love that you’re curious about bombs. We’re in line for security at the airport. I need you to be quiet now.
To interact with the social world the way others do, we need to learn the mechanisms behind social interactions to a level that others don't. This urge to know why a social behaviour works before we can properly use it (manners, aggression, group identity, coercion, lying) carries over to physical things and systems in the real world (electricity, trains, cooking, cats, jobs, cars)
We need not understand the entire scope of the thing or concept (though we often do), but understanding the boundaries of the thing, where the walls of the box are, helps us understand the limits of our expectations for it. We know it can't leave the box. When we encounter something brand new, a behaviour, situation, environment or task, we feel fear, because at that moment, the box has infinite size, and only by learning about it can we make the box smaller and more manageable.
What I really don’t understand is how so many people end up wondering about some facts in a conversation, then everyone goes “huh, that’s a good question” and just drop the subject and talk about something else. It usually takes less than a minute to do a quick search and everyone has a phone these days. So… how? How?!
The normie urge to blindly accept without question.
Imagine if an evil villain could delete all of the times in human history that an autistic person thought "why" about something seemingly unimportant WAYYY too hard?
Fuck... would we even have shoes? Toothbrushes? Washing machines? ..idk It would be a devastating attack upon humanity in terms of pure capability, technology and knowledge, that is for sure.
I am not saying all of the important discoveries were made by autistic people, just like we all know that we have met some autistic people (wait, you ARE one of those people aren't you!?) that are extraordinarily smart in their own way, and you can see in the people around them that they are such a powerful, clear lucid mind that they are loved and supported in their quirkiness because they move mountains (or don't). As it goes with all minds that are different in one way or another.... but certain machines and weapon systems... I just feel like... there HAS to be at least ONE autistic person behind that shit! Probably a lot of other kinds of minds too! Hopefully!
To anyone who hasn't met those autistic people or is unaware they have, damn I am sorry those people are incredibly fun and illuminating to talk to wtf. Not that anyone in this lemmy community would fall under that category, just making a point like I get so mad when people attack autistic people for so many reasons, but weapon systems are a big one that is hard to argue with, weapons aren't clubs and swords these days they are fiddly, super complex electronics warfare sensor ridden monstrosities... and they NEED the people developing and using them to understand the kind of horrifyingly long manuals some autistic people eat for breakfast while humming happily to themselves.
...and people dare to pick a fight with those people and their friends????
"I have a great idea let's have a moral panic about autistic people and ostracize/punish/seperate them out while denying them the care they need (established by science) AND THEN try to fight wars using shit like this.....
It makes me great at independent learning. It also makes me horrible at following orders. A "do this thing" without a "because" will get done quite differently to what you'd expect, if at all.
Luckily ive hybridized it with my kins folk belief system, synchronizing Odin with ancestor worship, a form of animism, and a semi Christianized version of a Celtic hunting god isn't too hard. Helps water it down especially since I don't really focus on any of the war aspects unless I am actively in a meltdown.
Eclecticness is honestly pretty standard for folk beliefs especially ones that may have pre Christian roots that have been evolving constantly since, also fun fact my kins weird form of animism also applies to machinery as well. From what I can tell it started with my 3x great grandfather with the term "fae of the engine" in reference to locomotives.
Hmmm, I am almost 70. I think I am neurodivergent?
After all the stuff I have been reading the past couple of years on Reddit and Lemmy I seem to exhibit quit a few of the traits mentioned about being neurodivergent.
Starts with me having Aphantasia(no pictures in my brain) and Anendophasia (no inner voice at all) maybe. Not sure. Is it even worth getting a diagnosis at this point in my life?
Yes. All my siblings and parents are dead now. Their kids the usual level of apathy and avarice. So it would definitely only be for my peace of mind knowing.
I have multi-sensory aphantasia. No pictures/sounds/tastes/touch/smell. My inner voice is soundless but constant.
I discovered aphantasia at 40; it is not a lack or detriment merely a difference. I talked with my Mum about it, she is has aphantasia and didn't realise and she is 66.
Aphantasia doesn't hold you back or make life harder; especially since you can go decades without realising that you have it.
You may have other stuff, ASD or ADHD etc....but aphantaisa isn't in the same realm.
Found out about the aphantasia about 10yrs ago. Found out about the Anendophasia about 5 yrs ago.
It’s more the other stuff I do or have done that has me a wondering’.
For me the bliss is only when the knowledge is found or the problem is solved, up till then it is a singing ice spike lodged into my brain, so more of a pain avoidance tactic
I don't think this has anything to do with autism, ADHD, or neurodivergence.
Intelligent people are curious. That's what makes them intelligent.
IMHO neurodivergent people don't have a trait for "curiousity" -- they're just more intelligent (if their neurodivergence isn't too severe) and so are interested in things. That's why there's so many in technical and engineering fields, mathematics, science -- the really hard stuff (hard for most people.)
Yeah, it's still not easy because there's so much other stuff going on inside the mind, but all that other stuff is going to lead to some pretty cool thoughts that could turn into a paper, project, business, thesis, etc. (if you manage to remember them long enough to write them down!) Over years this builds brain matter and this is where the intelligence comes from (again assuming the neurodivergence isn't severe.)
By "intelligence" I mean the raw ability to process information and gain understanding from it. Not IQ.
There's a difference between "I'm very curious" and "I literally can't move my attention from this thing, even if I want to, to the point that I will forget to eat or sleep or bathe"
The way I understand it (based on some introspection and reading the experiences of other autistic people), it's not a matter of ability to process information but rather the inability to not process information. We don't have the innate ability to recognize what's important and what isn't, which hinders our ability to recognize that two situations are the same and should be handled the same way. Asking "why?" is an attempt at understanding the pattern so that we can generalize in the same way as other non-autistics instead of memorizing every individual situation.
The neurotypical urge to not have a good enough answer and then bully the autistic person for asking the question.
(Not a comment on the post, just a frustration)
This is part of what I call "the allistic disability". They always tried to make us believe we are disabled, but are we really?
In many key aspects of day-to-day life...yes, we absolutely are.
It was a joke.
I understand that there are hardships linked to our condition, but many of them are not caused by our condition, rather by the world not willing to accomodate us the same way they accomodate NT's.
That's the same with most disabilities. For instance, blindness does have some intrinsic hardship, but then it also has the hardships that come from a society that assumes you have vision and does not accommodate you.
For some people absolutely, but “day-to-day life” is built to not only serve “neurotypical” people but generally to make sure the worst of them don’t need to actually improve anything. Pretty much entire concept of “polite society” and the cowardly basis behind so many instances of “that’s just how we do it ok?!” are rooted in people who cannot effectively communicate blaming you for not being exactly like them and/or afraid to speak up against their authority. People who “don’t understand social situations”, in my experience, are often just people who have a harder time letting assholes steamroll though and like, yea it sucks for them when society punishes them but it’s not their fault that society is a collection of highly flawed rules whichbessentially boil down to demands to not question authority.
Some autustic people have genuine problems that give them problems even when/if those around them have the patience to work with them. Many just make certain worthless people insecure and that’s not their fault.
Yeah we're different to NTs, we have different perks but defecates in lots of areas.
I fit in well enough but notice where I've said something that's quite specific to my interests or believed something that was obviously a joke. Shit sucks but every day it gets easier, lean into it and don't be afraid to be yourself.
We're not normal but fuck it we ballin'
edit: leaving the autocorrect in, was a ~1am post for me 🫠
I'm not normally one to point out a spelling mistake, but there is a very important difference between someone with deficits in lots of areas and someone who defecates in lots of areas.
That looks like an autocorrect, not a spelling mistake, and a hilarious one at that!
Did you just say you shit in a lot of places?
This is kind of the core question of disability, I think. What is disability if not a mismatch between your own way of navigating and functioning vs assumed normativity? If your own way of navigating and functioning was the assumed normative mode, would you still be "disabled"? A lot of our societys normative behaviors can in some way be hindering to those exhibiting them, but society is ready to provide full support to compensate for such things as they are a part of the normative mode. It's a fun thought experiment to consider how difficult it might be for a more or less normative person to function in an autistic society that only recognized and provided for normative brains to the degree that our own society provides for autistic brains. And on that note - Would an autistic society be better at providing for those people than ours does for us? Or would we close ranks around a new normativity the way that our own too often does?
The neurtypical urge to agree what the autist is saying is correct, but refuses to accept it or act on it because they don't like the way they are being told about it, then to in the end blame the autist when the predicted catastrophe comes because 'you didn't try hard enough to convince me'
It has brought be very close to being arrested more than once and I'm sure I'll be in jail over this in the fullness of time.
As a child I used to annoy the hell out of my mother, by asking why... I'm a scientist now. Now I wonder why, as the pay is shit 😂
This is true for literally every kid. All kids are born scientists but many lose interest or get frustrated over time
When I was a kid and bugged my mom with 'why', she'd hand me a book about it and it would shut me up for hours
And yet I'm told that millenial parents doing the same with their kids and youtube is fine and just like how my mother would hand me a book
And we're seeing the results come through highschool rn
I'm not sure if I understand it. Are you framing it as a bad thing that your mother got you a book about stuff you were interested in?
No I am saying that youtube is a poor substitute for reading
Shout out from IT: pay is good, working there today is shit (agile) and confusing as hell.
IT is fun until management comes in and wrecks the place with a load of time-consuming demands absent any reasoned justifications beyond things that don't concern IT.
Tell me why!
Ain’t nothing but a heartache
Tell me why!
Ain't nothing but a mistake
It's what makes me good at my job.
I thought going into engineering would be a better environment for this kind of questioning. It turns out my toddler-level frequency of "Why?" transcends bachelor level expectations, thus I must pursue even higher education.
Walking into a contract with uncurious junior engineers was frustrating to say the least.
Engineering, in general (not talking about programming) is a super conservative field. It's crazy how many people I run into that are clearly intelligent, but have just been so silo'd into one field that they have no understanding of anything practical outside of their field.
Few things have benefited my career more than my obsessive desire to figure out what went wrong in as quick a time as possible
And few things exercise my mind more wonderfully than emergency mode high stakes troubleshooting
My grandfather was right, I should have been an electrician.
I think electrician is still too mundane for us.
Not when you get to the level of 'The guy they call when the grid goes down' level like my grandpa. The kind of intricate and expansive knowledge needed to address those issues is just the kind of mind fire I desire
He was deeper on the spectrum than me by a wide margin, honestly I have no idea how he managed to be so successful going diagnosed and unassisted his whole life. I bet his wives had a lot to do with it.
At this point he would probably be considered an electrical engineer.
Considering his work for Pratt & Whitney I'd guess he had the certs for engineer but he was also ridiculously proud of the fact he 'came up through the ranks' so identified more as a Master Electrician.
When he heard I went to college for CS he considered it a waste, I guess he grew up in a world where competence was enough. Not like that anymore
Nothing wrong with being a hedge engineer. I have a GED and associates in liberal arts.
It'll be the death of me.
Absolutely. I often say I have terminal insatiable curiosity. It will be quelled when I am room temperature.
"So this is what dying feels like...fascinating."
“I wonder what happens next”
But I’m not in a rush, I’ll wait patiently lmao
Same, I'm not done with what's in this room yet
I'd love to know, but one of the possible outcomes is that I won't get to learn about anything ever again. Too risky.
As it turns out, inexplicably, this is not a trait that works out well within corporate America... Source: Of course I know him, He's me.
What's with this new trend to label normal behavior as somehow related to ADHD or autism? Only morons don't want to know why ffs
Peeing is also normal behavior. But it's not normal if you have to pee every 30 minutes.
What's with this new trend of invalidating ADHD and autism symptoms simply because you don't experience it to a degree that impacts your quality of life?
ADHD and autism don't have one specific symptom. It's a thousand little things that drive you insane from having to conform to neurotypical behavior.
Let patients share their experiences without normalizing and invalidating their condition.
It's always 'everyone has ADHD these days' just like how people day 'everyone is LGBTQ these days. It's never 'underserved and underdiagnosed ADHD patients are finally getting recognition these days'.
Boys are 16x more likely to get an ADHD diagnosis than girls. The vast majority of backlash against ADHD patients on social media are against women and PoC who are finally speaking out against the medical neglect. Women traditionally present different symptoms because girls are punished more heavily for exhibiting ADHD behaviors than boys are. Same goes for autism.
Remember that a lack of diagnosis does not indicate the lack of ADHD and autism. Modern medicine is rife with systemic inequality. Undiagnosed ADHD and autism patients are frequently penalized and not rewarding for concealing their symptoms. The more effort they put into concealing them, the more heavily criticized they are for 'faking' it.
I see you guys are taking this way too seriously so ok... I'm not invalidating anything, and for that matter I haven't noticed any such trend in media either. In fact, I would go as far as to say that attributing "normal" behaviors to ADHD and autism is ultimately what invalidates these conditions. My initial comment stemmed from me seeing meme after meme about ADHD and being like, wait I'm like that too, maybe I have it. But then as this trend goes on I observed that most of the people I know also have - to some degree - most symptoms mentioned in said memes. In short I bet if one were to base the description of ADHD on the memes going round, most people could get a positive diagnosis. My personal opinion is that this has to do with societal expectations when it comes to education and employment as they have developed over the last couple of decades. We are slowly recognizing that our capitalist way of life with its pursuit of infinitely increasing productivity is not in line with human nature thus we're "creating" this condition that somehow everyone is suffering from to attribute feelings of inadequacy.
Adhd in particular is a very "everyone can relate, only people with adhd have their lives crippled by it" thing. To some degree this applies to many mental disorders (e.g. everyone has some anxiety).
The need to know why is clearly not a normal thing or I wouldnt have had the frequent experience of people getting mad at me for demanding the why or, which is still utterly confusing to me, for explaining the why when asking someone to do something.
I suppose context is important in the needing to know why. Can you give an example of a time someone got mad?
Usually when it's things that are "socially expected" but don't make sense to me in that moment. Like being asked to wait with eating food until everyone has some (still don't really get it, but "it's a social norm and people will feel bad" is sufficient for adult me since it's really nbd. As a kid no one even explained that far though, just that it'a a thing you do because you do.).
In general as an adult its been pretty rare since I've learned it's not worth the effort (and whatever if it makes people happy then cool), and if I really don't wanna do something I consider pointless (like wearing a suit - which I'd first have to buy - to a wedding in 30° heat as someone who is already very uncomfortable in shorts and t shirt in 22°) people are more likely to respect it because they can't really force me anymore.
I do think the more common one (that still happens a bunch) is when providing the why, or more generally when providing extra information. It seems to me people often assume I'm overly criticizing when I do that. Like "can you add this thing to the sheet I think it'd be helpful when <3 sentences of the context in which I think it's good to have>" tends to get worse reactions than "can you add this thing to the sheet I think it'd be helpful".
So same as the food thing, maybe it's more about wanting far more detailed explanations than about wanting one at all. But to me the less detailed one often doesn't feel like a real explanation, moreso a justification.
The other day we went to the gym with a friend and afterwards he said let's go eat at the food court. We each got stuff from different restaurants and he got his first, so he went to get a table while I was waiting for my food. As soon as he sat down he started eating so 3 minutes later when I got there he'd finished half his meal. I didn't appreciate that because the whole point was to have a chill chat whereas now he was done and I felt like I had to rush because I was wasting his time with my tardiness.
Glad I now have friends that are entirely in agreement that waiting is pointless.
I would highly disagree it signifying you as anything special, it's a random ass social norm that serves no real purpose. But yes as I've said I'm well aware how it makes some ppl feel so I wait when eating with anyone I don't know well. And sure it's not hard now, which is the part where I mentioned this kind of thing mostly happened when I was a kid.
Honestly that reaction is just proving my point lol
Then they can accept that I won't do whatever thing they want me to do, because I don't exist to serve them?
ok that's actually a good explaintion
No it isn't. And it isn't true
Who the hell are you, the arbiter of what is and isn't serious?
Yes. I am the author of the post and I decide how serious it is. Who the fuck are you, the friend with the cleft asshole?
Lol no, you don't get to decide how other people are allowed to feel about your opinions. Also wtf is a cleft asshole??
It's a reference I didn't think you'd get but maybe someone else wasting their time reading this whole conversation unfolding under this silly little meme might enjoy.
To use your logic, you don't get to decide how I interpret the responses to my comment. So if you don't like what I said you can give me your little downvote and kindly fuck off unless you have some meaningful retort about my actual opinion on ADHD & autism diagnoses.
That's correct. So if you felt like others were taking your words too seriously, then say that. Without the reflection at yourself, in the English language you're telling others how they should be feeling rather than saying how you feel. I hope a grammar misunderstanding is all that really was.
And for the record, I do regret coming on so strong. I've been stressed today and this is not the first time in the past 24 hours I've realized too late that I could have been more diplomatic. So, sorry about that.
That's always been around. Another example: having enough interest & focus to get good at something difficult. When someone suggests that isn't normal (rather than a natural result of persistent effort & willpower), it really indicates to me a shortcoming in whoever believes that (why don't they think they could do the same if they seriously tried? are they a moron?).
This type of ignorant prejudice is truly moronic and it's really unfortunate how prevalent it is in this thread.
Be a better person.
Not factual, no. The vast majority of people are average, by definition.
No one really, just a person with a general aversion to bigots. Continue being shitty, I guess.
"NT"?
Neurotypical, meaning not neurodivergent. They think that everyone who isn't like them is a moron. Sounds just like every other bigot tbh.
By "they" I was refering to the poster who claimed that the vast majority of nt are morons. That was indeed a bigoted statement to make.
Neurotypical, I assume
Yes! I have to understand how a process works before I can do it myself.
To all the people who just "give it a go" without knowing exactly what they're doing - I cannot comprehend how you do that.
I believe that Ive lost 2 maybe 3 jobs because of this
Because of not being an idiot? Great. /for all morons, this is obviously cynical sarcasm.
Careful, uncovering truth might put management in a bad light.
Example from my life:
Me: Boss, the production database has had 2 failed drives for over 6 months, if we lose another our whole operation is cooked
Boss: If it hasn't failed yet, it can wait another 2 weeks
Me: It cannot
Boss: I'm not signing a PO
Me: Goes to Boss's Boss We are one hard drive away from losing the business, please sign this PO
Boss's Boss: signs quickly How long has this been going on?
Me: At least since October
2 days later:
Boss: You are being dismissed due to insubordination
Me: I literally saved your company
Boss's Boss: Sorry my hands are tied
Fuck corporate America for what they do to us on an hourly basis
Don't underestimate the pride of people who make poor decisions and how much it hurts them when a rookie spots them
what? i thought it was nice to always ask why? thats crazy
Always. I always must understand why something needs to be done before I do it. Rare exceptions in people I have an absolute trust to make decisions for me.
I couldn't cook a damn thing until Alton Brown showed me how/why cooking works.
Then I learned about all the types of cooking and why they work.
Then I looked at how the Michelin chefs do it and why they do the things they do.
Now I cook pretty well and occasionally pull off something way above my skill level.
Good Eats was an amazing show. Amazing, fun, educational! Loved it
Yeah that was the same for me. But I used Salt Fat acid as the book that I used to learn how to cook
What is the purpose of this post?
Why do you ask?
I need to know why
Why do you need to know it?
The existential dread of not knowing; gnaws at my psyche in uncomfortable ways that I cannot adequately put into words.
im confused by the mixed signals.. am i too?
I want to know why other ppl don't want to know why
Everyone has a different amount of curiosity for different things. Just because someone doesn’t want to know how a carburetor works doesn’t mean they aren’t interested in other things.
Also curiosity can be a luxury. Some people are very focused on following the beaten path because they think it might be safer. Start asking questions and rocking boats and you might cause problems. Curiosity killed the cat and all that. Over a lifetime people settle into their own groove of curiosity and satisfaction.
isnt it safer to not try without the why?
Because neurotypicals don't actually think, they just respond to stimuli
You can deny it for now but someday you'll agree with me. All it takes is enough exposure
Or persist in a series of varying thoughtless reactions, whether lashing out or simply engaging without stopping to think with 'depth'.
Though, I've also come to understand many people seem to have no model for cognitive engagement. Like, "How do I think about this situation I'm in?". So, I try to give some grace, but, ffs, what the damn... I wish more people would just physically stop, physically pause, and think before doing something which just causes a bigger problem. Like gd, why is everyone in my family like this...
I am currently reading into the religion of ancient germanic tribes. Sadly WE HAVE NOTHING! EVERYTHING IS LOST TO TIME!
We have a few names, but that is basicly it. Roman and christian sources are heavily bias so they cant be trustet
That's really interesting. Can we make any educated guesses about what it was like?
Well we know how they lived and their culture (as always it depends on the region), how they dressed.
Religion wise, we know they had similar gods to to the norse/north germanics (skandinavia. You know thor, odin, frija, loki aso). They put people into the swamp. Criminals and religiouse human saceafises. We know that its religiouse human sacrafises because there are also animals and tools found in swamp beds.
Burrials and funerals were different to each region and tribe. Many in the south and north west burried their people in hills, like the celts. The bodies sometimes were put in specific positions. As the romans arrived, these practises noticeablely changed. Building dedicated buildings, giving offerings and money. From what i have also read is that cremetion and burning the body was also a common practise.
But how they really worshipped, and their mythologie we have nothing on as faar as i know.
Idk if that is true but i think we also know that they, also had some spiritual leaders. Oracles. Young virgin woman that could predict the future threw bones, weather speak to the gods and stuff, that had a set place where they lived and rulers traveled to them.
Things are waaayyy worse with the celts though. We know they had these druids. But we do not know what their job in society was. We guess they were spiritual leaders, maybe also medical, maybe diplomatic. The druids were not just a closed off people. Didnt write anything down themself, the forest was holy and no one but druids was allowed to be at their meetings and in their forrest.
That's really interesting thanks!
I am working on a mod for a game (and applying that same knowledge to a game later on)
So lots of theologie research. Its crazy.
There was a group of christians in the Mesopotamian delta in the early centurys of christianity, that saw incest as a holy ritus because adam and eve were siblings and therefore performed incest
I’m really curious about this too. We know that the Angles, Saxons and Jutes brought their gods to the British Isles - we have the days of the week Tir’s-day, Wodan’s-day, Frigg’s-day - but the Romans had already supplantdd the native Britons’ druidic traditions with Christianity. We already know little enough about this period of history but basically the only surviving writing we have about it is by Christian scholars like Bede written after the fact, with all their biases.
Yes. I can't help that everything is fascinating to me...
mine’s not orange
This is a tough one. I have an autistic child. I love that they’re curious, but sometimes, for all of our safety, I can’t explain why I need them to stop talking about a dangerous subject… for now.
Great. I love that you’re curious about bombs. We’re in line for security at the airport. I need you to be quiet now.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
You dropped this, king/queen/highly placed noble: \
I do. And I know that folks will get snippy if I ask.
Thankfully, Wikipedia exists, and it is more than willing to vomit forth information without getting an attitude about it.
To interact with the social world the way others do, we need to learn the mechanisms behind social interactions to a level that others don't. This urge to know why a social behaviour works before we can properly use it (manners, aggression, group identity, coercion, lying) carries over to physical things and systems in the real world (electricity, trains, cooking, cats, jobs, cars)
We need not understand the entire scope of the thing or concept (though we often do), but understanding the boundaries of the thing, where the walls of the box are, helps us understand the limits of our expectations for it. We know it can't leave the box. When we encounter something brand new, a behaviour, situation, environment or task, we feel fear, because at that moment, the box has infinite size, and only by learning about it can we make the box smaller and more manageable.
Of course I do. It's only the impulse to ask out loud that was trained out of me.
The normie urge to blindly accept without question.
Imagine if an evil villain could delete all of the times in human history that an autistic person thought "why" about something seemingly unimportant WAYYY too hard?
Fuck... would we even have shoes? Toothbrushes? Washing machines? ..idk It would be a devastating attack upon humanity in terms of pure capability, technology and knowledge, that is for sure.
I am not saying all of the important discoveries were made by autistic people, just like we all know that we have met some autistic people (wait, you ARE one of those people aren't you!?) that are extraordinarily smart in their own way, and you can see in the people around them that they are such a powerful, clear lucid mind that they are loved and supported in their quirkiness because they move mountains (or don't). As it goes with all minds that are different in one way or another.... but certain machines and weapon systems... I just feel like... there HAS to be at least ONE autistic person behind that shit! Probably a lot of other kinds of minds too! Hopefully!
To anyone who hasn't met those autistic people or is unaware they have, damn I am sorry those people are incredibly fun and illuminating to talk to wtf. Not that anyone in this lemmy community would fall under that category, just making a point like I get so mad when people attack autistic people for so many reasons, but weapon systems are a big one that is hard to argue with, weapons aren't clubs and swords these days they are fiddly, super complex electronics warfare sensor ridden monstrosities... and they NEED the people developing and using them to understand the kind of horrifyingly long manuals some autistic people eat for breakfast while humming happily to themselves.
...and people dare to pick a fight with those people and their friends????
"I have a great idea let's have a moral panic about autistic people and ostracize/punish/seperate them out while denying them the care they need (established by science) AND THEN try to fight wars using shit like this.....
???
TL;DR People are silly
I'm frankly not of the opinion that natural human curiosity should be described as autism.
It's like, what, let's not have science? Let's not have history? Let's not have medicine?
This is actually kind of bad because it encourages "normal" people to not ever question anything
It makes me great at independent learning. It also makes me horrible at following orders. A "do this thing" without a "because" will get done quite differently to what you'd expect, if at all.
According to my religion ignorance is a sin, thusly I must know as much as possible in a sisyphusian goal of madness. Is summary: why?
The more we know about the universe, the better equipped we are to weather its challenges
My religion also says ignorance is sin but there are also a fucktonne of very content sinners in our ranks, sadly.
Could be worse a solid contingent of the followers of my god are Nazis. Neo paganism is fun.
I used to be norse flavored neopagan, I get you. Can't do a single rune wheel without someone putting a swastika next to it...
Luckily ive hybridized it with my kins folk belief system, synchronizing Odin with ancestor worship, a form of animism, and a semi Christianized version of a Celtic hunting god isn't too hard. Helps water it down especially since I don't really focus on any of the war aspects unless I am actively in a meltdown.
I'm kind of impressed with your eclecticness but honestly you can't ever really go wrong with animism
Eclecticness is honestly pretty standard for folk beliefs especially ones that may have pre Christian roots that have been evolving constantly since, also fun fact my kins weird form of animism also applies to machinery as well. From what I can tell it started with my 3x great grandfather with the term "fae of the engine" in reference to locomotives.
Yes. It's why I'm in university in middle age, acquiring science degrees. Unfortunately most of what I've learned is "we don't know yet"!
I'm not autistic but my partner is, can confirm she has it.
Hmmm, I am almost 70. I think I am neurodivergent?
After all the stuff I have been reading the past couple of years on Reddit and Lemmy I seem to exhibit quit a few of the traits mentioned about being neurodivergent. Starts with me having Aphantasia(no pictures in my brain) and Anendophasia (no inner voice at all) maybe. Not sure. Is it even worth getting a diagnosis at this point in my life?
Why indeed.
Yes it's your call. It was for me, it gave me peace about being labelled as thick as a kid and it helps me in day to day life.
Yes. All my siblings and parents are dead now. Their kids the usual level of apathy and avarice. So it would definitely only be for my peace of mind knowing.
I have multi-sensory aphantasia. No pictures/sounds/tastes/touch/smell. My inner voice is soundless but constant.
I discovered aphantasia at 40; it is not a lack or detriment merely a difference. I talked with my Mum about it, she is has aphantasia and didn't realise and she is 66.
Aphantasia doesn't hold you back or make life harder; especially since you can go decades without realising that you have it.
You may have other stuff, ASD or ADHD etc....but aphantaisa isn't in the same realm.
Found out about the aphantasia about 10yrs ago. Found out about the Anendophasia about 5 yrs ago. It’s more the other stuff I do or have done that has me a wondering’.
You don't need a diagnosis to know you're built different, you just need it if you want to get medical care or assistance for it.
If your experience lines up with others, and you identify with their struggles and interests when other people do not, then to me that's enough.
but why?
Follow your bliss.
For me the bliss is only when the knowledge is found or the problem is solved, up till then it is a singing ice spike lodged into my brain, so more of a pain avoidance tactic
But why do I?
Yes I have read multiple encyclopedias, as the internet was not available to most people when I was a child
Always.
Sure. I often get fixated on some topic, especially if it’s work related. I buy lots of used textbooks to learn about the topic.
The more I read the more I think im somewhat autistic and not adhd.
Sure let's make "why" into a negative.
Might as wel surrender your life and live by a.i.'s statements.
I don't think this has anything to do with autism, ADHD, or neurodivergence.
Intelligent people are curious. That's what makes them intelligent.
IMHO neurodivergent people don't have a trait for "curiousity" -- they're just more intelligent (if their neurodivergence isn't too severe) and so are interested in things. That's why there's so many in technical and engineering fields, mathematics, science -- the really hard stuff (hard for most people.)
Yeah, it's still not easy because there's so much other stuff going on inside the mind, but all that other stuff is going to lead to some pretty cool thoughts that could turn into a paper, project, business, thesis, etc. (if you manage to remember them long enough to write them down!) Over years this builds brain matter and this is where the intelligence comes from (again assuming the neurodivergence isn't severe.)
By "intelligence" I mean the raw ability to process information and gain understanding from it. Not IQ.
There's a difference between "I'm very curious" and "I literally can't move my attention from this thing, even if I want to, to the point that I will forget to eat or sleep or bathe"
OK, but tbf that's not really what the meme says.
The way I understand it (based on some introspection and reading the experiences of other autistic people), it's not a matter of ability to process information but rather the inability to not process information. We don't have the innate ability to recognize what's important and what isn't, which hinders our ability to recognize that two situations are the same and should be handled the same way. Asking "why?" is an attempt at understanding the pattern so that we can generalize in the same way as other non-autistics instead of memorizing every individual situation.
Everyone eats but autists eat differently, we aren't talking about non-autistics here friend.
This is literally the ableist version of 'all lives matter'
Username checks out