Government condemns Glastonbury chants aired live on BBC
The government has "strongly condemned" chants at Glastonbury Festival from rap punk duo Bob Vylan calling for "death" to the Israeli military and broadcast live on the BBC.
Rapper Bobby Vylan led chants of "free, free Palestine" and "death, death to the IDF [Israel Defense Forces]" during their set, which came just before Belfast rap trio Kneecap.
A BBC spokesperson said some of the comments were "deeply offensive", adding it had issued a warning on screen about "very strong and discriminatory language". The set will not be available to rewatch on BBC iPlayer.
Police said they were reviewing videos of comments made by Bob Vylan and Kneecap to decide whether any offences had been committed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c33514nryy1oOpen linkView original on sh.itjust.works477
Comments170
tomorrow's headlines: bbc bars publication of details of cancer treatment.
such information, they say, is deeply offensive to the horrendous disease regardless of how many young, innocent victims it claims.
80k dead and 130k injured, starvation, displacement, murdered by settlers.
But a chant is "deeply offensive". Take your fucking offense, fold it until it's all sharp corners and shove it up your ass, BBC.
and being a nazi isn't.
BBC radio14: all IDF all the time
Up next, with your host, MCBiBi, the soothing sounds of 80,000 dead kids, children burnt alive, exploding under million dollar missiles, and everyone's favourite summer hit, already starving to death and being shot in the head in an ambushed food supply delivery.
"Death to the IDF" is not what I would chant, but it's honestly mild compared to the kinds of slogans (eg. "Death to Arabs" and "Let your village burn") West-funded, West-supported, West-armed, and West-protected-from-accountability Israeli fanatics chant before committing actual fucking atrocities. Hell, it's mild compared to the Amalek rhetoric of Israeli state leadership.
Edit: why is "death to the IDF" mild compared to "death to Arabs"? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that's the price for keeping one's soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.
It's about as narrowly targeted a chant as you can get.
It's not about jews. It's not about israelis. It's specifically the army of israel. If that's not narrowly targeted enough, what's acceptable? "Down with the members of the IDF who intentionally target civilians but not those members of the IDF who are willing to risk a court martial to make sure that they only attack valid military targets?" Doesn't make a very good chant.
Good point, the IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance
Absolutely! It's in the choice. You consciously choose to be part of the IDF, you aren't born into it, and thus it's not a hateful statement. You know, except for BBC weaklings
I see this delusional and out of touch argument being made all over the internet, and it's so damn annoying. These takes are always from chronically online larpers who never leave the comfort of their house, they always say shit like:
"why don't people of Iran just overthrow the theocracy?"
"why don't the people of North Korea just topple the Kim dynasty?"
"why don't Russian conscripts just refuse to fight in Ukraine?"
"why don't Israelis just refuse to be in the IDF?"
"why don't Americans just have a revolution?"
Could it be because that reality is not that simple? It's easy to sit there in your dark room all day dreaming about being a heroic revolutionary, but in reality? You wouldn't do shit because you understand that the consequences are a lot harsher in reality than in your imagination. This over simplistic view of the world just boils away the complexity and nuance of humanity. Nobody is willing to risk their freedom, stability, future, or life to appear moral or have a "clean soul". When shit gets real and you're in the same position as all these people, you'll end up doing the same as them. If reality was that easy then we wouldn't have tyrannical regimes or wars or exploitation, but we do. Trying to blame a 20 year conscript for being forced to serve in the military by extremist leaders is stupid and unhelpful. They're not making the situation better, but it's also not their fault they're in that position in the first place.
You can totally not join the IDF there are many people not doing it it just strips you off the opportunity to get lucrative army jobs and you are definitely being stigmatized in Israeli society and potentially even your own family, but you are not risking your personal safety by not joining this genocidal apartheid occupation force. It’s a question of taking a stand. Do you want to be at the very least complicit in war crimes being committed, yes or no?
AFAIK you can also not join the IDF by simply being extremely religious.
Yea, Orthodox Jews have total exemption from joining the armed forces. If you really don't want to murder children and steal land, go study the Talmud. No excuse.
For some of them it's "if you don't want to risk your life in the armed forces, but really, really want other people to go and murder children and steal land so you can benefit, go study the Talmud".
Love that the "just following orders" defense is making a comeback. Just as valid today as during the Nuremberg trials.
The big takeaway from WWII is that the Nazis were evil and responsible for the atrocities that they committed, not the German people. Low ranking soldiers being complacent through coercion is not the same thing as being a leader who has influence over the situation. That's why we condemn Hitler and the Nazi leaders, and not the foot soldiers.
Your takeaway from WWII is that the guy shoving the kids into the gas chambers should not be condemned? What the fuck is wrong with you?
We absolutely do condemn the foot soldiers and it’s a shame that they have never been held responsible. And we condemn Zionist foot soldiers as well and there needs to be some kind of Jerusalem trials or whatever next where Israelis need to be de-Nazified, Zionism is irredeemable.
Its not though. Do you think a few years in prison will make you a better person? Or having to find a job as a felon or whatever the Israeli equivalent is? you are asking people to do shit no one will ever ask of you and you will never be put in a similar situation. Fuck the IDF, but if you want this to end you have to see the whole picture.
So this is pretty much exactly the line of reasoning that the nazis used to defend their participation in the holocaust. It wasn't convincing then, and no, it isn't convincing for the current genocide either.
Then we should be thinking hard about how these countries recruit. I am not saying defend the war criminals, but if you want to fight them you have to see how they work.
Look at all these countries that fought the nazis long ago and how they became more and more fascist afterward. you would think they would be smarter then this, but it is clear all the wrong lessons have been learned.
Sure, but that's a whole different convo from finding "your honor, I had to murder the 5 year old; the alternative was a couple of months in prison and flipping burgers for the rest of my life" at all agreeable.
Agreed. But it sure does not feel like people here want to make that distinction.
I think we should disallow any travelers or trade from Israel into my country. No currency of fascists should be traded with dollars, until as a state they atone for their crimes.
Maybe? Isreal would still have the better weapon platforms then its regional neighbors and i think will more likely use a nuke in a situation like that if it feels desperate enough.
If they use a nuke then they are done.
Why would you think that republicans would not continue their support of them?
There are plenty of people refusing to join the idf, its not some mystical heroicism. Regardless of how people joined it, a military occupying land and committing a genocide is a legitimate target under international law.
You're saying it as if this is common, it's absolutely not. Russian defections and desertions to Ukraine and vice versa are very rare, and for good reason. The chances of you successfully running away are slim compared to failing and getting killed by either Russia or Ukraine. If it was as easy as you think it is then number of causalities among troops in this war wouldn't be in the millions.
But this also ignores how these are not comparable situations at all. The Gaza war is nothing like the Ukraine war, where are IDF conscripts supposed to defect to? It's not like there's anything in Gaza, they can't leave through legal channels, and all their neighboring countries will kill them the moment they find out they're in the IDF. It's a difficult situation to be in.
This is just not true. In apartheid Israel if you’re Jewish you are very privileged and you can deny service. Also, no one is gonna kill you, Israelis travel to Egypt, Jordan, etc. just fine unfortunately. And most of them are either still in the IDF or were part of it at some point. They join the IDF because they want to and because they are Zionists, not because they are forced to.
Idk what kind of bs this is you’re spreading, but just because they’re not the incarnation of Ben Gurion it doesn’t mean they’re innocent. If you are part of an entity that commits war crimes you are complicit.
I'm so tired about people only criticizing Netanyahu. Sure he is the worst of worst for Palestinians but every single goddamn prime was oppressing Palestinians . The problem is the fundamental ideology that run Israel zionism
No it’s not. Because Netanyahu alone isn’t responsible for Gaza, everyone supporting Zionism is and especially those who are in the Zionist army that is the one carrying out the genocide.
I edited my comment since I made it. Here is the newer version. Bold the bit that I think adresses your concern.
I agree with this.
By the way, do apply the same logic to the Hamas fighters.
Weren't some of the attackers on Oct 7th literal children? I remember reading reports of some of them being teenagers... and yes, the same thing applies to them. A leader like Sinwar and a child soldier should not get the same blame, that's just silly.
Yet you don't use this excuse for hamas. It suck that they had to do a terrorist act for people to talk again about 77 years of oppresion by israel. The idf leaving gaza to control it from outside and continuing occupying the west bank, demolishing house, torturing paleatinians , raping them and killing them make it hard for hamas to resist following international law.
Would you have use the same argument for nazis to follow hitler?
Don't you also see how many idf soldiers are filming themselves mocking plaestinians and having fun?
My point is universal. Actually A lot pro Israelis use this very argument a lot:
"Why don't Gazans just rise up and overthrow Hamas?"
As if that simple. People talk about Israel on here a lot, but they constantly overlook that Hamas is a tyrannical terrorist group against Gazans as well. They rule through fear and violence. People who talk about them being a legitimate resistance group forget that these are the same people who have systematically chased out the Christian minority in Gaza, killed their opposition in the strip, banned free speech, and they killed/kidnapped/torutured anybody they don't like by saying they work for the enemy. Netanyahu was literally funding them in their early years, so you know that they don't have the best interests of Palestinians in mind.
It's really hard for people to rise against tyranny. It's really hard for people to stand up to the powerful. Things like bravery and morally right no matter what are cute ideas that people can talk about on the internet, but in the real world nobody is going to give up their lives.
Also keep in mind, calling out this stupid point doesn't mean that someone is now magically a Hamas supporter who advocates for terrorism nor does the opposite make someone an Israeli supporter who advocates for war crimes.
I can use the same excuse and say Hamas has no choice but to persecute who oppose them because they fear that the resistance will simply die and Israel will continue it's occupation with nobody stopping them. Also Israel kicked more charitarians than Hamas ever will . At least 50k of the nekba refugees was Christians . I don't deny anything Hamas did that is terrible and criminal
All your mental gymnastic won't change the fact , Palestinians has the right to fight and kill idf soldiers that are in Gaza committing a genocide . The only place where idf can die is in gaza or the west bank where Palestinians has the right to armed resistance . So yeah death to the IDF
Israel just allow funds to enter Gaza they didn't fund Hamas it was Qatar who id , it's the same Israel who allow funds to goes to the Palestinians authority. Israel control everything in and out of gaza . The Palestinian authority is the one collaborating with Israel, crushing west bank resistance and do nothing against illegal settlers . So i wonder for you who is the real resistance? Please don't tell me there is none because it never happened in history
I would to a degree. I was alive when the 'war on terror' started, the recruiting starts at childhood and you can join at 17 that is no where near enough to make an entirely informed choice like that. And in the US if you are poor and want to go to college or get healthcare you really do not have many other options.
Hamas and the taliban are absolutly evil organizations. But if your country is being occupied and they are the only ones you seem to be fighting back then what do you do?
You don't need to be informed to know that you shouldn't kill civilians purposely in wars and torture people lie it happened in Guantanamo bay and Abu Ghraib. There is still a big difference between the aggressor war crimes in position of power and resistance groups trying to do everything to end occupation including atrocities like in 7 of October.
I think if Palestine is ever liberated , war crimes from both side should be held accountable
I agree. But we also need to look at the lies they are told and how pervasive those lies are recruiters are basically child groomers. Very few people join because they think they are going to get to kill civilians.
Again plenty and plenty of idf soldiers are filming themselves enjoying and being proud of their crimes you can't claim that they didn't know what they are doing. IDF is pure pure pure evil a lot worse than Hamas
The people filming it would be the absolute worst of them or maybe the IDF only uses the most absolute sociopaths for their combat roles. The dude cleaning floors or whatever to avoid going to prison should not be held in the same regard as the dude executing children.
Uh, I think taking a jail sentence by not joining a fascist military is a little easier than toppling your government. That's not even a remotely equivalent comparison.
And yet we are all accountable for our actions.
This is true, but we also have to acknowledge that things aren't simple or as black and white as they seem.
And yet, genocide and ethnic cleansing of innocent people absolutely is a black and white issue. Its not subject to debate and its not a grey area. The commitments were made and the treaty documents signed.
any of the results of the recent polling in Israel seem very grey to you? https://archive.ph/Tjoj3. (Haaratz poll, architve.todayed it because its behind a paywall)
47% of Israelis want to murder every living non jewish human in Palestine.
56% want to expel Israeli citizens who arent Jewish.
93% say that the biblical command to kill every descendent of the tribe of Amalek (and their children and livetsock) still applies today somehow. So they want to kill palestinian's pets now too? Just 7% of israelis are against mass murder from their dusty holy book, it seems.
82% want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian territories.
Ethnic cleansing and genocide based on ethnicity are not compatible with modern society and that's black and white. There is no wiggle room.
Ah, good old New Labour, siding with the modern day Nazis committing their very own Holocaust in Gaza.
The UK is almost as fucked up as the US.
(Though, judging by the march of 600k people against the Genocide, most Brits are not, and it's the power and money elites that, as usual, can't stop themselves from loving the most violent Fascism and Fascists same as when a young princess Elizabeth was being taught by her uncle and then King how to do a Nazi salute - the whole ubermenschen vs untermenshen view of the World seems to have massive appeal amongst British elites).
Far more. Starmer is a ponce and a WEF puppet.
Israel is a fascist apartheid state that is currently carrying out ethnic cleansing. I think it's rather fitting.
Sorry no. You can't be an apartheid state and call yourself a democracy. That's not how words work.
Sure, there is democracy in Israel, but it is more similar to the one that existed among whites in apartheid South Africa than it is to the democracy that currently exists in the United Kingdom or France.
UNICEF has reported more than 50,000 children have been killed or injured in Gaza. At what number do you become comfortable with the comparison? 1 million? 2 million?
Whoever told you Israel is a democracy lied to you. Israel is a democracy the way Apartheid South Africa was a democracy.
In terms of being accurate with our history, dont forget that 17 million people died in those camps, not just 6 million jewish people. In the movies its always solely jewish people being murdered. Russian citizens, soldier, catholics, gypsies, gays, disabled. we never talk about that extra 11 million dead, and each of those lives was as precious as your own life, or any other humans life. The takeaway from that should be that no genocide will ever be allowed again, of any race or any people. That obviously includes Palestinians and Muslims.
What do you think datadroplet, do you agree?
edit: and of course, datadroplet declines to comment about that. Seems like denial of genocide to me which I believe is against lemmys rules.
Don't forget the millions of Poles
Dang. Good call, yes.
IOW - people actually fucking voted for this. That's even worse, since that means that the general populace shares greater culpability.
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/58636
It's not anti-Semitic to simply state reality.
I no longer subscribe to people telling me what is and what is not antisemitic. I'll use my own brain for that, thanks.
We've seen too much abuse and restriction of language and crybullying from zionists to let that language be defined by you lot anymore. Hey did you see this one? The very word "Palestine" is itself a "genocide" against the zionists.
https://www.jns.org/the-word-palestine-is-genocide/
And heres one of Netenyahu calling IDF soldiers antisemitic who talk about their atrocities. I guess its "semitic" to keep crimes secret? Is that what you personally require to keep that "antisemitic" accusation from being thrown out?
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2025/06/28/netanyahu-says-its-antisemitic-for-israeli-soldiers-to-describe-their-own-atrocities/
I think the fact that you zionists wrung the holocaust for all the marketing value it was worth in order to commit your own gencocide on innocents is disgusting and wildly criminal. You belong in prison.
If this was the 40s, that person would have def be defending the nazis
If criticizing Israel for committing a genocide and maintaining an apartheid state is anti-Semitic then I guess you consider genocide and racism Jewish tenets
Reminder that it is Israeli right wingers themselves that have opened that door by saying that Hamas are worse than Nazis and comparing the October 7th attacks to the Holocaust.
Comparisons don't need to be 100% equivalent. Nazism was about the supremacy of the pseudo race called Aryan, zionism is about jewish supremacy
The nazis was doing mass shooting, the idf do mass shooting and mass bombing. Both the nazis and the idf are starving people. The Nazis used gas chambers, the idf is shooting at people seeking aids with the new terrorist organization claiming to be an aid organization Just because holocaust killed a lot more people doesn't mean we can't compare it with the genocide is gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000
You make the antisemitism worse by using it for any criticism of Israel. The fact that you call resistance group terrorism terrorism but say nothing about Israel terrorism being a lot more brutal for 77 years show that you are not neutral
Fun little tidbit to tighten your trolling knickers: The finance minister of Israel said they intend to "entirely destroy" Gaza. They are doing this by raining fire upon it, from the White Phosphorus attacks going years before October 7th, to bombing hospitals and schools, and burning aid convoys and covering the ashes with sand so they don't have to look at their crimes.
Did you know that we have a word in the English language (and most others with Greek roots) that means, literally, "to entirely destroy by fire"?
That's right, the word is fucking "Holocaust".
This is satire, right?
True that, Israel has been brutalizing Palestinians for decades, they surpassed the teacher by far.
Lol I can't take you seriously. Sorry but when Israel is literally doing nazi shit you can't claim their critics are antisemitic for calling them out for doing nazi shit. Get real.
Only a rabid racist would - through claiming that anything critical said about that nation is anti-semitism - imply that a nation station state whose actions approach those of the Nazis in their depravity represents all the Jewish People.
It's hard to be more anti-semite than conflation a nation mass murdering children with the Jewish People as a whole.
If politicians won't represent the public you can still count on artists
Just chiming in with some lyrics from the great musician, Tim Minchin
Fuck the IDF, and fuck every single piece of shit making excuses for murdering civilians for the unholy crime of being born somewhere.
This is the energy I like to see.
Fuck everybody who goes along with, denies, or minimizes terrorism and genocide, no matter who they are.
Please show me where the UK Government condemned “death to the Arabs” chants from Israelis.
The British Government considers being Arab as synonymous with being a terrorist. Not, incidentally, any differently than how Israelis see them.
Of course, the Brits were a colonial power that spent centuries quelling domestic revolts in order to extract natural resources and exploiting cheap labor. Also, not that different from their Israeli peers.
Who removed this? Death to the IDF is a call for defense, not a call for violence. Death to the IDF. The IDF is an organization. Death to that doesn't have to mean violence. If the Israeli government would disband the IDF that would be a death of the IDF.
But let me be clear, soldiers committing genocide should be stopped by all means possible. Death to the IDF and the soldiers enacting genocide.
Lemmy world is thoroughly subverted by state actors.
I had an account there and left because my registration e-mail address for that account was leaked to Israel and I started getting e-mails in my native language from a Tel-Aviv base entity inviting me to attend one of their "Get to know Israel" online courses.
Not even a Moderator has access to the database with the user's e-mails, only a server Administrator.
The use of "moderation" in trying to shape perceptions in any large Lemmy forums hosted in Lemmy.world is to be expected.
Sure, if you give me a minute I'm just gonna dox myself to satisfy you, random Internet stranger.
Interesting. Maybe you could share more info regarding this?
They want palestinian to not have right to selfdefence while claiming to oppose genocide, so weird
Wonder what happened here
I said death to the idf
I was gonna joke world would remove it but didn't think they actually would
Any negative statements toward Isreal are considered antisemitism by the right. What a joke
The right, who are outright Nazis claiming to be against “anti-semitism” is such a fucking ludicrous joke.
Because Israel validates their ethnostate ideas.
If i could invent a time machine and send them to a wwii internment camps I would. That way they could see what real antisemitism looks like. Not this scapegoat bs they are doing today
May this chant be inscribed upon all our hearts. 💕
UK and US thought police on patrol. Bought and owned by the rich fatcats to promote their personal religious agenda using the state monopoly of the use of force on protestors not doing any harm to anyone. Disgusting.
💀💀2IDF
FUCK THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE
IDF are a bunch of genocidal terrorist fascist fucks
Of course, everybody knows that “free, free Palestine” is “very strong and discriminatory language” if you are member of genocidal IDF.
And we strongly condemn these governments that keep protecting genocidal maniacs
BBC is a bunch of smegheads from the past.
Clearly you are not a bot if you can say smeeeee.... Smeeehhhh.... Smeeeeeee.... Heeeeeeeaaaa..
"I don't give a fuck if you speak on my name. Just make sure when you fucking speak on it, you speak it in capitals V-Y-L-A-N"
Starmer, fall on a stake.
May this chant be inscribed upon all our hearts. 💕
Based
Oh, whoops. Here you go:
https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/37661027
Edit: original: https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/3bf38d29-c6d6-403d-9c72-14f7bd712764.mp4
I support it because I'm with "The People."
For some balance: the UK hate speech laws despite what the daily mail push have been applied relatively evenly with the intent of preventing violence which has been a problem in the UK in several cases where innocents were unfairly targeted then attacked.
I'm not really one way or the other regarding the BBC decision, I can see it both ways and the footage will be out there regardless of their choice. I personally support the message being free speech and for the public to make their judgement.
Re the police reviewing it. This can often happen with high profile stuff even if it's to officially class it as free speech, so no one can say it was ignored and the were discriminated against. However if the police find it to be anything other than free speech based on current events, I would find that highly concerning. He didn't say death to Jews, or Israel, it was specific to the IDF.
If Zionists had any real leverage they could use to control states Spain and Ireland (and to a lesser extent France under Macron) wouldn't be outspoken advocates for Palestinian rights. The guilt trip is definitely part of it, but also don't underestimate the scale or pervasiveness of Israeli propaganda. I mean, unless you're exceptionally educated on Palestinian history at least half the things you believe about the so-called conflict are probably Israeli propaganda., irrespective of what you feel about Israel. I hate to admit it, but they are good at this stuff. Their major Western ally status gained during the Cold War is also not helping.
I'm not sure what has given Spain their perspective but at least in Ireland there is no amount of propaganda you could throw at us to change public perception here, largely on a moral ground, but we also have that sweet, sweet history of oppression. We were all horrified on October 6th but there's no justification for the current genocide.
Really fucking tired of antisemitism bring bandied about as the reason for our support too. Children are being shot in the street, losing limbs and being starved as a weapon of war FFS. Antisemitism is a real and nasty thing and the word is being cheapened by the hour.
Very happy to have a larger country along for the ride with us. History is on our side. 🇪🇸🤝🇮🇪
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
The Spanish are a great bunch of lads
Fada beò an Spàinn!
They are a great people and a lot of fun. And deeply distrustful of the state for a lot of reasons. And they and Ireland are increasingly taking up the mantle of leaders of the free world. Germany and the US governments are corrupt and shameful.
Cheers. I'll give them a read this evening.
And yeah great bunch of lads the Spanish. Absolutely sound in general.
Well I learned a lot so thanks. Particularly surprised at the levels that anarchism reached there. I'm listening to the 'revolutions" podcast at the moment (highly recommended) and just coming into the Russian revolutions so I can see the seeds of it.
Have you read the book you linked? Any good?
Aye, true progress was being made and that couldn't be allowed to happen. Germany's Blitzkrieg tactics were practised on Spain before they began their expansion.
I tried but I have an unfortunate case of bees in my brain so I didn't finish it. Need to give it another go. The portion that I read was interesting though!
Who's the revolutions podcast by?
Edit: https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/revolutions_podcast/ this?
Yeah that's the lad. The history of Rome is incredible. I only fell into Revolutions because I needed something to fill the gap after history of Rome and his style is very easy listening.
I'm being a bit more picky with the sections I listen to in revolutions but really enjoying it so far.
It's on Spotify etc if you have that.
Sweet, ta! I listened to The History of Rome a few years ago so I'll check this one out.
I love how Orwell - being so iconic today - had to be described as "Author of 'The Road to Wigan Pier' etc"
Big ups to you! No "skin in the game" but taking the right side. Disappointed in my own government. Luckily basically every regular person I've ever spoken with about it agrees with the take.. Just the state..
The most obvious genocide since the holocust. You don't need to know history to know what israel does now right now is terrible
Hey col, let's sprinkle in some real antisemitism. Unbelievable.
There is something going on though right?
There absolutely must be Zionist Jews in influential positions in American and probably the UK who have the interest of Israel above the interest of their country. There is loads of funding for pro Israel groups.
The whole antisemitic propaganda thrown at Labour is real questionable.
Pro Israel groups have been caught rewriting history on Wikipedia.
Without being able to talk about it how do we know what's real and what's a conspiracy?
Like just talking about things that are true isn't wrong. The whole banking system is too much. But what is right?
Ridiculous, there is no need to invent a conspiracy. Isreal and the UK have aligned economic and military interests. There is no jewish shadow banking syndicate pulling the strings, there simply an understanding that the UK benefits from a state like Israel existing in the middle east and that if it didn't exist the UK's ability to project military force would be worse off and UK businesses would be worse off.
Rich people just love Fascism and here's an ethno-Fascist nation for some of them, claiming that their ethnicity makes them superior to everybody else, so of course they'll tend to support them.
It's not at all surprising that the moneyed elites amongst the Jewish People would side with a regime that says they're inherently superior, same as the German elites sided with the Nazis. I mean, back in early Nazi times even the British moneyed elites were very drawn to Nazism and its ideas of racial superiority (there's even a photo of young princess Elizabeth being taught by her uncle - the then King - how to do a Nazi salute) up until the point Germany actually invaded Poland.
You see the very wealthy supporting supremacists of their ethnicity all throughout History, no "conspiracy" necessary.
Historically, quite independently of ethnicity you'll find it's the well educated middle classes that most resist the pull of chauvinism, and that seems to be exactly what we're seeing amongst the Jewish People now that the self-proclaimed representative of them all as full revealed itself as a Genocidal project.
I didnt say there was a shadow banking industry, in fact I said the opposite.
Completely missed my point.
You'd like to claim that being against Israeli murder is antisemitism and thats never been true. Its dishonest, it's arguing via a category error, and communicating in bad faith.
Its a cheap facile con that also serves as a slight against the person you are talking to, by using such a stupid argument in a seemingly serious manner.
You're not as clever as you think. You're just weaponizing peoples wish for a just system to your own malignant purposes. We all see you.
Ben Gurion famously said of the zionist crimes of the Nakba in 1948, "The old will die and the young will forget." But we will not forget. This will never be normalized, and Israel will remain a pariah people. That is a danger to global jewry and is itself the true antisemtisim thats happening today. Its being perpetrated by zionists like yourself.
Sure, man. Repeating antisemitic conspiracy ideology is helping the thing.
Maybe some people should stop reading "The Protocols of the elders of Zion".
A heavy accusation.
The Guardian newspaper, New York Times, Oxford research, Mondoweiss all cite the quote without any note of it being controversial, so your calling it a conspiracy theory is itself the conspiracy theory, unless you have some proof? Show us all your proof of your libelous accusation that is of similar standing to those 4 sources?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/may/12/israel1
https://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/the-young-palestinian/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/books/review/the-hundred-years-war-on-palestine-rashid-khalidi.html
https://oxfordre.com/literature/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190201098.001.0001/acrefore-9780190201098-e-1211
It also is exactly the same sentiment Ben Gurion expressed in so many venues and written letters in very similar wording. Are you denying that this is what -- and how Ben Gurion (aka David Gruen before he moved from New York city to Palestine to found Israel) thought? Does your reflex toward revisionist history stretch so far? And you are pivotting from one lie to another aren't you, because I see you have nothing to say about your previous accusation about "antisemtisim" huh. Well thats fine, I accept your apology as long as you don't let those lies and slanderous accusations happen again.
Back up your self serving fantastical claims or dont make them. No one here has time for lies.
Wich quote? Did you even read the (now deleted) comment, In answered to?
I don't know what you want to tell me with that.
With the way the leader of Israel was killing journalists. It really did make the Jews control the media conspiracy, actually true, pretty funny if you think about it. But yes, that statement did have the airs of racism
Then better stop the genocide before antisemitism gets normalized. It will increase the longer this continues.
How does banking factor into the genocide in gaza, or did you just reach for whatever jewish stereotype came to mind first?
It's extremely easy to criticize Israel without being anti-Semitic and yet you failed spectacularly and have shown zero self reflection after getting correctly called out on it. Pathetic.
What streotype did he use?
Oh, I'm not criticizing Israel. That's a done conclusion. I'm questioning why politicians in other countries go along with this. As far as I can see, and that's clearly shown, there's very good lobbying, information campaigns and lots of money. Even the Eurovision contest was full of money and influencing. I'm assuming influence alone can't do this, certainly not after protests. That leaves money. Who has a lot of money, meaning trillions, and reason to use it as leverage? Certain banks. Of course that's forbidden to say, but that omerta thing going on is now part of the stereotype.
You can come a complaint of inaccuracy on the BBC website. If you have the time to do so, do so. Stating they were antisemitic is slander and misinformed.
What "Death to IDF" looks like in real life: violence against Jews.
https://www.jwire.com.au/jewish-melbournes-friday-evening-of-horro/
Death to the idf in real life is idf terrorists killed in gaza
These idiots also chanted "up Hamas, up Hezbollah". How stupid do you habe to be to publicly support terrorism? This is not helping the Palestinian cause.
Israel is the terrorist
That does not make Hamas any less of an terrorist organization.
Is that case israel and the united states are also terrorists right?
I guess that depends on how you define terrorism. Some definitions require the actors to be individuals or subnational organizations - so the scale of Israel's actions would make it something else. But other than that: yes.
Why do you ask? I haven't seen anyone defending Israel's actions (and the US support of it) in this thread, so I'm not sure how that adds to the discussion.
Any entity who target civilians for a political aim is considering terrorism .
Defending the idf is defending Israel. It's the occupying force that implement Israel policies in Gaza and the west bank and are committing a genocide
Genocidal zionazis murdering tens of thousands of unarmed men women and children are more what I'd be concerned about affecting the Palestinian cause than artists trying to stand for something they believe in.
Also, Hamas is not terrorism, it's a symptom of an oppressive terrorist colonial regime wantonly subjucating a people. They're the equivalent of the rebel resistance in star wars.
I get what you're trying to say, but Hamas is not just a resistance organization; they're an oppressive terrorist regime on their own right. If not for Israeli aggression they'd have been overthrown three times over.
Netanyahu actively encouraged the growth of them. What the fuck are you talking about you to weirdo, he loves them because they keep them in power because they’re a convenient enemy.
100% correct. They are an unfortunate but unsurprising symptom of the disgusting occupation of the land that is rightfully Palestine by isntreal.
Thank you, good, sir Or ma’am. the balls of these people to gaslight everybody else on the Internet is fucking amazing
Exactly. That's what many people don't realize. Hamas atrocities are themselves a product of Israeli Jewish-supremacist occupation apartheid. There are multiple instances in history where occupation and subjugation has brutalized a population to the point of themselves becoming butchers when given the chance. From Boudicca, to King Phillip's War, to the late excesses of the Haitian Revolution, to Nat Turner's rebellion, to the early days of the Greek Revolution, and even Terror periods of the French and Russian Revolutions. These excesses and atrocities are not to be glorified, but they must be understood as really sad outcomes of the pre-existing brutal regime. It's always chickens coming home to roost, and in fact it's usually a wonder that the atrocities are not worse.
Hamas committed horrible atrocities on October 7th. Was anyone really surprised they did so however? These were an outcome of decades of brutal occupation.
Hell, I'll even say something very controversial: Israeli atrocities themselves are the outcome of the extraordinary brutalization of Jews in the decades preceding the founding of Israel. Hitler is laughing in hell. This is his intergenerational evil at work, 80 years after he bit his luger.
100% truth. It's the same intergenerational trauma causing this, and that this is causing.
Isreal had a unique opportunity to "turn the other cheek" and be a good neighbour, even while Palestine was fighting them, and they instead choose the evil path.
It is a resistance group that have a fair share of terrorist acts like many other resistance groups in other occupied countries. It was created in response of israrl opression during the second intifada
If not for isntreal they wouldn't exist at all because there wouldn't be a need to
I mean yes, when did I say otherwise? Israel is at fault for creating this terrible situation, and the people exploiting that situation for their own gain at the expense of Palestinians are also at fault. These two things can be true at the same time.
Hamas leaders has ton of their family killed. Look at the palestinian autority for taking advantage of occupation to their own gains
I feel like you're arguing in bad faith if you're making a false equivalence like that. We're not talking about Islamist anything, we're talking about the genocidal colonial oppression of innocent men women and children by the IOF. they literally ensured premature babies were left to die and decompose in incubators in hospitals in Gaza
Are you excusing jewish terrorism, rape and blowing babies with bombs?
he's sure trying.
I could cut and paste articles of Israeli terrorism, israeli rape, and israeli murders. Lots more then you could find from the "islamist" side. So thats a pretty weak point of rhetorical attack I'd say, especially since the zionists started this during the Nakba.
There was no beheaded babies stop lying. What do you think happen to babies head when israel drop bomb on them? https://www.factcheck.org/2023/10/what-we-know-about-three-widespread-israel-hamas-war-claims/
Reading comprehension 0/10.
As bad as 10/7 was, the unfounded accusations of systemic rape and beheadings have been de-bunked. Don't go down the road of repeating propaganda or your comments will be removed.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-of-sexual-violence-on-oct-7-fueled-a-global-dispute-over-israel-hamas-war
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html
Because you continue pushing Israeli lies about the genocide. You are now banned as well.
Yeah, this shit doesn’t hold water with me when you’ve pressed the people over 1000 years they can terrorize whatever the fuck they want
Will you admit that theres been about 100 years of vicious zionist terrorism? Its well documented.
They never cared for the palestinian cause. It's just white middle class' substitute for religious belief. We are the divinely good, they are the divinely bad. Thus devoid of all critical thinking.