All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU
All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU::undefined
https://mashable.com/article/replaceable-batteries-smartphones-iphones-2027Open linkView original on lemmy.world1904
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Thank fucking god for the EU, for fighting for global digital rights where nobody else does.
According to republicans Europe is hell on Earth tho
It’s funny how many of them unironically praise the Taliban. At least, it’s funny from my perspective looking in. I’m sure for a fellow citizen that’s a scary thought.
I'm sure many places that are are still Hell because they aren't majority white and not fascist enough.
mostly cuz EU gives rights and protections to consumers, not corporations
They’re still liberal and give a lot more to corporations than they do people.
And yet to us Americans, we see that the EU does a billion times more for its citizens and we wish our country could be half as good about the things the EU does right.
Grass is always greener..
Actually the Europeans I've talked to with a small couple of exceptions very much like their "welfare state" and mainly like America for its entertainment. They do not typically want to live here. I wish I could live in Europe badly
I mean I am European :D I wouldn't wanna trade either. But there are definitely some people here who still believe in an American Dream or like the idea of earning more and spending less on taxes living in the US. Really depends who you ask.
I understand. Unless you're lining billionaire pockets and actively hurting the poor, Republicans are PISSED
-for Republicans that is.
Fine by me. Nice and cozy 🤗
No wonder, while plenty right wing parties are on the rise here, too, overall people are at least somewhat less removed from actual reality.
We have a fake economy. All investments, researching and efforts could be decided by state (we/public). Protecting society interests and not "investors" interests is an obligation
Does this mean we could potentially order phones from there as US folks?
Doubt Apple will have 2 different devices for each area.
One sensible right doesn't overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
And imo this is not a sensible right. To change a battery in phones is easy even now. All you need is heat gun (hairdryer), new battery, phone tape (2$ ali) and 30 mins of your time..
Also watter resistance will take a hit.. I wouldn't sink my phone under watter with detachable back cover even if it had ip68 by producer. They don't even cover it in reclamation now.
Compare to how it used to be, removing the battery cover and replacing the battery on the fly. And water resistance with removable batteries has been and can be done. Stop with this nonsense.
True. Between the private healthcare, abortion rights, school shootings…
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about the US?
Apple in 2027: This is not a battery, it's a.....umm ....... Ultra High Density Low Current Super Capacitor.
EU: Ok, then in addition to that UHDLCSC you also need a removable battery.
Yay! Another dongle!
And apple consumers will celebrate it.
they'll find a place to shove one of these
It might actually force them to develop inductively powered devices or some similar magic
Introducing the UHDLCSC portable charger (which it technically a battery you can attach via USB-C-iLightningSpec©)
I came across this insane opinion piece the other day: https://www.laptopmag.com/features/mind-eurown-business-for-the-sake-of-the-iphone-apple-needs-to-fight-back
It's so surreal, it feels satirical
What the actual fuck?
You swear this isn't satire?
Nobody tell this guy what the EU's Digital Markets Act means for Apple and iMessage...
I haven't heard of this. What does it mean?
Messaging services need to be interoperable.
This is the reason us iPhone users are ridiculed. I swear we’re not all like this.
I love how higher IP rating is always the argument, it looks like everybody in this planet is doing daily deep diving and needs its smartphone to do that 😅
Phones with IP67 or even IP68 exist with easily replaceable batteries.
My Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and headphone jack) and is ip68 rated
I have a Samsung Xcover (5, not 6) and this thing is such a breath of fresh air!
16:9 screen, audio jack, good USB-C, SD card, removable battery, physical shortcut button that's programmable to anything, decent performance (some newer phone games like Genshin don't run well, but emulated NDS games or Morrowind? Just fine!)
And this is SAMSUNG‽
Where's the world going‽
You'd think they'd figure out a way to have those high IP ratings and have removable batteries (they have afaik)
Are you sure it isn’t satire? I prefer to believe it is.
I sure hope it’s satire, but that pun!
“Mind EUROwn business?” chef’s kiss
I... Couldn't even make it through the whole article. Absolutely insane.
Looking at this guy's other articles, unfortunetly it does not feel as satire.
Man, Tim Apple sounds pissed.
That's because it is satire.
All we need now is a headphone jack
We need SD cards more. They removed them so they can charge you 300 $ to upgrade 128gb and to force you into shitty cloud service.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
I have flashbacks to using external storage on Android. It was such a shit show of an API. That being said, external storage, to break away from cloud storage is the next needed thing. We need to own the data.
When you design an OS to pretend there's no such thing as a file, it ends up being bad at handling files.
Yeah, even today, browsing through files on Android is a fucking mess. And there isn't an SD card.
So the SD card wasn't the problem
I was trying to figure out recently how do I copy files into application user data directory, it turns out you just can't, lol.
You can with very basic root tools, but really that just solidifies your point. It's an easy thing to do, but they've intentionally taken away the ability for no good reason
It's perfectly fine on Sony Xperia.
Which did away with the headphone jack and asks €400 for crap performance.
Nah I'm sticking to my Samsung XCover
Xperia IV aren't crap performance but they are 3x €400
It was the SOC that wasn't great. Nothing to do with the manufacturers.
Mobile Linux seems to carry it really good
I am not talking about SAF! That!, is a small disaster of its own. I kind of dig the idea really. Execution aint the best.
I am talking 2.3-4.0 era of handling external storage. Where pathing was not set. Device manufacturers would just throw their hands like they dont care. Then the external storage path function, permissions shitshows. At places it was a disaster.
Samsung was actually one of the later Android manufacturers to drop it is my recollection.
Yeh and fuck them
Agreed
Definitely. Never understood why some manufacturers removed jacks
I personally prefer my bluetooth headphones, but it's not like bluetooth and jacks can't exist on the same device..
Plus, pairing bluetooth in a car can be annoying as fuck. Looking at you, Nissan
BT pairing in our Ram works fine, and it works fine with the aftermarket Pioneer radio in my car. I've never had a major issue with either one with any phone I've owned, iPhone or Android.
For our Mazda, though, BT pairing does not work reliably with my Samsung S21 - it's okay for phone calls (in fact, the car "steals" my calls if I'm on the phone at home and my wife gets home with the car), but for music it almost never works correctly, unless I'm also using Android Auto, which is rare because I just don't need it for most day-to-day drives. The BT phone and music works fine for my wife's iPhone, though.
I blame the car - my phone works just fine with several sets of Bluetooth headsets, and the other two car stereos. I think Mazda just didn't bother to do any debugging before they shipped that piece of shit to the dealers. (This theory is based on other bugs we've found in the infotainment system as well.)
Because they do the bare minimum to meet the spec so that they could advertise it then. They still do the bare minimum now.
Yeah I want a headphone jack, but the truth is that I can't remember the last time I used mine. I have an old phone plugged into an old amp that I can play Spotify through, otherwise I use bt.
Yeah, they could coexist. I'm partial to non-bluetooth, but only because they come in shapes that I find more comfortable, and I've yet to find bluetooth ones that don't make my ears hurt
Yes, I just haven't found any that I found comfortable with yet
Money from selling true wireless earbuds was too enticing. Even Fairphone made them and removed headphone jack and spat nonsense that it was a "point of failure."
The argument was saving space for other parts. That's true in a way. But if things needed we should have this space. What's next? Saving the space of the charger? /s
Headphone jacks are a 19th century invention, if having them restricts innovation then I am all for removing them.
We can't only consider innovation today, we also have to consider its ecological impact. Jack plugs and headphones are way more durable than Bluetooth equivalent. I have 16 yo jack headset that still works perfectly, I only had to change the cushions twice.
It's specifically the wire that always breaks first. How can they be more durable?
You can repair a broken cable fairly easily.
When you buy wireless headphones you know upfront that they will die within a few years and you will not be able to replace the tiny glued in, oddly shaped batteries they come with.
I like the convenience of BT at times, but I really miss having headphone jacks and hate having to bring adaptors with me.
If you can financially, buy (second-hand) higher-end material, it will come with stronger wires and stronger connections.
For example, see the difference in the constraints damper on these connectors:
vs Apple's:
Jack being simple technology, it's also very easy to get it repaired by the nearby tech enthusiast armed with a soldering iron.
To add to that, many IEMs (and many other headphones too probably) come with removable cables.
So stop making any technological advancement because of the potential impact of e-waste? Not saying it’s a bad thing but it will have have its own environmental implications. No new energy development, we have to rely on existing oil and nuclear technology rather than investing in making renewable energy sources cheaper and more efficient.
It's not an either-or situation, we can do both at the same time, we just have to consider environmental impact as an essential component of innovation.
At the point we are at, yes we have to make a major change, e-waste is an immense problem for many years and we are only starting to fight it.
Inventions not thinking about e-waste at all shouldn't be allowed anymore.
So are speakers and batteries.
True, but we don’t have any practical alternatives for them.
What's the practical alternative to headphone jacks? Bluetooth is crap and carrying around extra dongles is annoying.
Bluetooth headphones are more practical due to not having wires. Jack is better for latency.
Practical for some scenarios, but impractical in others. A headphone jack also offers better sound quality overall and a less flaky connection, with no audio cutouts. It's not just latency, it's a superior and more reliable way to transmit high quality audio. And there's no battery to worry about charging. And a standard set of wired headphones can last for DECADES while a Bluetooth headset will start to die in about five years or less because the battery is non-replaceable lithium-ion. And there's no concern about whether your wired headphones are optimized for Android or iPhone, it's a standardized connector with an identical experience on both. And there's no issue with wireless interference on the 2.4GHz band that Bluetooth operates on.
I can come up with more if you want.
Technically 20th century, if I'm not mistaken? I just don't see how they would restrict innovation, I guess
Apparently it’s based on a plug invented in 1878, according to the BBC.
Interesting! It's cool to know how stuff we use/used was developed
By that logic let's just replace the most superior household plug. The 3 pin UK plug.
A "19th century" technology that objectively produces better sound quality and uses less energy. And I already have wired earbuds and headsets.
Unless there's an alternative, no it's not restricting innovation.
I'd be almost ready to say that we don't need them any more if Bluetooth headphones were about 100x better and cheaper
At the same time, wired earphones/headphones are already just as good with a lot less parts/complexity.
You don't need batteries, radios, and chips for coding/decoding a signal coming out of a headphone jack. You can just plumb it straight into the speakers. No need to mess with controls and all of that, which would make them a lot cheaper.
Don’t forget how new Bluetooth headphones require that you download an app to set up the headphone. So a whole new data harvesting broker forces itself right where an audiojack used to be.
Check on the AppStore’s the kind of personal data one has to handover to tune the headphones. Total fuckery!
Still too much lag. I love my QC45s, but there's still just enough lag to bother me
Bluetooth 5+ definitely made wired headphones obsolete for me.
But now you have to charge two things rather than one. Some people would prefer not to have to do that.
Bluetooth headphones are solid now, as long as you have something that supports aptx HD and LL (HD for music, LL for movies/games). But yeah they're not cheap.
Can't imagine that getting mandated unfortunately
The fact that some of the gen Z crowd think it will be horrible have forgotten that it was much easier to carry 2 batteries and swap them out vs carrying a charger and cable with you everywhere. Pop in the new battery, power it on and carry on with you now full battery phone. Being tethered to a wall so you can have 10% from 20 minutes of charging is crazy.
I used to do this. I thought it was awesome but I was literally the only person I ever knew who did this. It was not a popular thing to do.
Zero lemon had them so cheap that I had 4 extra batteries (they also had the extended batteries that would last forever but the cases were janky). I would keep one at work, one by the door to take with me and two at home if you include the one in my phone that I would swap out. I rarely charged my phone at all, just the batteries. I loved it.
Most people did not do this nor needed to since the very beginning of cell phones
We literally do not need replaceable batteries in 2023
Maybe, but you have to admit that battery live used to be longer (specially pre-smartphones), if your phone could comfortably last a couple of days there was less need to have portable power.
I fondly remember the convenience of having a flat, replaceable battery in my pocket even in the early Android days, and I’ve missed it ever since it went away.
Don't forget the option to carry a 30lb battery bank everywhere with you so you're at least tethered to something marginally more movable than a wall.
Seriously though, I miss my phone+battery in one charger and the ability to restart with full battery at around 4pm.
I know you are intentionally exaggerating a bit, but they do make pretty small portable chargers. I have an Anker PowerCore 5000, it has 1-2 full charges depending on your phone, and easily fits in a pocket
Yeah, definitely joking. Mine is 24,000 mAh and weigh less than 1.5lb allegedly.
The main reason I'm thinking of upgrading my mid-range phone now is the battery is on its last legs.
In fairness it's lasted 6 years, which is two years more than my Nexus 4 got. Pokemon Go eventually killed that.
I don't know when we all just collectively accepted that batteries should last one day and not a second more. Sure, it's doing more than a Nokia 3310 ever did, but sometimes you really do need it to last more than that, like when travelling.
I'd much rather just have a bigger battery. Replacement is more useful for longevity for me.
You're not going to get a bigger battery though. Battery size is a pretty much maxed out, the only way to make a battery bigger would be to make the battery physically bigger. This would make the phone bigger / heavier. So it's not going to happen.
If you are waiting on some magic new battery chemistry it'll come along eventually but you'll be waiting a while, and stubbornly not having a replaceable battery in the meantime isn't going to make any difference.
There's some huge battery breakthroughs going on right now. You're right though, I would give it another 5 or so before they're widespread among phones.
What is this sorcery? Wouldn’t this cause issues with internal clock and stuff?
Not really. The phone, especially these days, would just synchronise the internal clock as soon as it got internet access, and unless you're leaving it powered down for long periods of time, there's enough power for it to keep the last set time, if it doesn't keep it indefinitely.
Huh. My mom has a flip phone that messes everything up when the battery comes off so I figured that it would be the same for newer ones too.
If switching batteries is actually doable with next to zero inconveniences… 2027 can’t come soon enough.
Assuming you mean an older flip phone, those tended to have problems (they probably had no way to fetch the time compared to modern smartphones), but they've not been an issue for a while, in my experience.
I regularly swapped the batteries on my old Nokia/Samsung smartphones without running into clock problems at all, since they would synchronise the moment they connected to the network, and got internet access, if they didn't keep the time in the first place.
It’s from 2011 (it’s also not a flip but a slider, I messed up my terminology), if the issue got solved since then that’s great.
It will also likely mean easier repairs. Louis Rossman just did a video on this
This. People read this and think about the removable batteries of Nokia bricks and plastic hardshells, but this would really hamper with IP68 rating. It probably just means the users must be able to replace the battery themselves, instead of artificially locking it down with DRM. And maybe provide some documentation. Otherwise phones would become so much worse, than they have been for more than a decade.
Louis was saying 'Does everyone have collective amnesia?? We had IP68 phones with removable batteries already!'
I only remember the Samsung rugged ones, which do not look great. Some compromise will be needed to get removable batteries into phones. Compromises the buyer of a gold iPhone Pro Max to flex their wealth won’t appreciate. Not DRMing batteries and giving users access to documentation and tools for replacing the battery requires almost no compromise from no one (except a tiny dent in Apple‘s balance sheet, which they will recover from, I’m sure).
The Samsung galaxy S5 were IP67 rated with removable battery.
They also featured optional wireless charging, despite you being able to pop open the back and replace the battery.
And was one of the least successful S series phones.
It's NOT just phones.
It's EVERYTHING with a battery. Including cars, laptops, e-bikes, video game controllers, headphones etc. (im not even sure if there are exceptions, such as tiny tiny "airpod" like things.. ?)
And they must be (with a few exceptions) replacable by a "layman", without the use of special tools - which means no heat pads, to soften up glue etc etc. (and for gods sake, i hope it also means apple can't hardwareID lock a battery)
an exception mentioned in the EU document about the law says, high power batteries for example in an electric car, must be done by a profesional - but of course it still has to be "replacable" and not.. tear the whole car apart and rebuild it using new batteries.
replacable batteries in headphones, bluetooth mice, laptops etc, is gonna be awesome.
and lets not forget, they have to recycle the old ones - and produce new batteries using recycled materials.
in fact, i will try to hold on replacing my current (2 year old) phone, and wait to get one before 2027. Usually the battery turns to shit in 3ish years.
Stand back everyone, I'm going to attempt nuance.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs. Making the battery easily replaceable will come with drawbacks. Maybe it'll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised. The extent of the compromises remains to be seen, and people will have different opinions about whether it's worth it.
Ordinarily I'm not a fan of regulators making product design decisions, because that's exactly the kind of thing market forces are supposed to be good at. In this case, though, there's a demand that's clearly not being met, and companies clearly have a vested interest in pushing consumers toward replacing their old hardware rather than repairing it, which creates externalities markets are unable to account for. Market failures like this are exactly the kind of situation where government regulation is needed.
My current device and the two before that all have had removable batteries. I've always thought built in batteries are stupid and it's nice to finally notice that other people agree. Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver and spare parts must be able to be purchased straight from the manufacturer.
Ya the only reason I get new phones is because the battery gets too weak. I could easily keep the same device for 5+ years if I could swap batteries
The only reason I get new phones is cos OS updates stop flowing. That happens way before I notice any battery degradation. This law solves nothing.
I'm an android guy but you can solve that problem by going iPhone if so inclined
The fact is I prefer Android when it comes to phones.
Really? How long does Apple support iPhones?
Samsung and Google support their current generation phones for five years. Apple supports theirs for seven years from when they're last sold.
Wow that's a big plus for apple that I never knew about. Thanks!
3 Major OS updates, 5 years of security patches
I'm not sure but a lot longer than android
Apple replace batteries for about $80, and those phone repair kiosks will do it even cheaper with non-genuine batteries.
You can. It cost $15 every three years to have someone replace the battery for you or you can spend the hour doing it yourself.
On a pixel phone?
Yes. $15 and an hour. You can bring in your own battery or pay ~$60 USD for an official one. It's all very easy.
This law won't change shit. People are still going to dump their phone every 2 year.
It does include that, mostly. It says that any tools that aren't commonly available without proprietary rights or restrictions (i.e. screwdrivers) have to be provided by the manufacturers free of charge
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery. I’ll need to change my battery maybe once every 3 years, but I need to know it can handle moisture far more often than that.
You can have both. My Galaxy XCover 6Pro is ip68 rated.
The another benefit with removable batteries is that if you have two you can go from 0 to 100% charge in about a minute.
This is why I want replaceable batteries in small EVs like bikes and such, too.
And why I have thought for a while that it would be nice to have maybe 30% or so of electric car batteries be replacable with a moderately large rack in the "frunk" or trunk. But that's just me.
Most of the ebikes and motor scooters I've seen have removable batteries. Gogoro in India even has a battery swapping network for their scooters.
Gogoro's existence is kinda bittersweet, it shows that it's possible, but that companies aren't willing to standardize and cooperate to make it the status quo and actually possible to build swap stations for globally, of even across just Europe.
Ideally I'd want to see a plan where an e-bike or electric kickscooter takes one or two, and motorcycles take a few more. Idk if you could make batteries in that form-factor and put 12 or so into a car to gain enough miles to make a difference. Perhaps eventually, if we get the energy density gains we're hoping for.
Car-wise, I have no expectation that the industry will shift towards low weight and drag like Aptera is pushing for, so I don't expect efficiency gains that way.
This isn't a replacement, but I have said for years now that someone needs to market a rentable tow-behind or rooftop battery sort of like U-Hauls for extra capacity needed for longer trips.
People have tried it. The extra drag of a trailer or roof box consumes most of the extra energy that they carry.
Can be done with screws and rubber seal, no need for glue and glass.
You wouldn't even need the screws. IP67 phones in the day were fine with plastic clips that the back clicked onto.
All it needs is that little rubber band, and you have to handle it carefully when closing the lid.
Psst those Brands are not your friends and might lie about their reasons to make batteries non-removable.
Any moderately well built phone won't die just because you took it out in the rain.
I have a handheld marine vhf radio with a removable battery that I can throw in the ocean and it will work and continue to work for days. Don't believe the bs the manufacturers tell you.
Coming soon from Apple. Screws that require a 4D tesseract shaped screwdriver to undo.
But if you can undo them, feel free to change the battery.
The EU defines user replaceable as you can remove the batteries with common tools. Common tools is defined as a Phillips or flathead screwdriver. So even Nintendo and their stupid try-force screw thing won't be acceptable.
If that's really the definition, it's an awful definition and exactly why we shouldn't regulate stuff like this. Torx are objectively better than Philips or flathead in every possible way.
As long as the tool isn't proprietary it's acceptable. If I can go to a hardware store and buy the interface tool then it's fine, but it's not fine if I have to get it from a special manufacturer or if it's proprietary.
In the case of Nintendo I gave; Nintendo have their proprietary tri-headed screw. They do not make The tri-headed screwdriver publicly available, of course companies have copied them and so you can get one that way, but they're not official, so my understanding is that that would not be acceptable. Nintendo would have to officially release the tri-headed screw design, and they're probably just more likely to switch to a different already public screw design.
I also think they are allowed to just glue the batteries in as long as they have pull tabs. Which is probably the better option.
My point is Apple won't be allowed to just come up with some brand new screw design that no one else has ever seen before. Unless they open source the screw head. In which case I guess it doesn't matter. But they're not going to do that because there would be no point.
Good riddance. No one will miss pentalobe, tri wing or triangle head (Mcdonalds toys)
Ahh yes, screws that can only be unscrewed using The Force
I'm sure apple will happily sell you the proprietary tool to turn their proprietary screws for a very reasonable price.
Honestly good. Usb C is so good.
I have a couple of 100w chargers around the house, no messing about can charge nearly everything at full speed.
Pesky EU throwing their weight around giving consumers more rights! --Brexiteer logic
Oh well hopefully we'll (UK) still benefit from it. Easier to design one phone than "EU" and "Rest of world" versions after all.
This needs to be true of notebooks too. I love my 2015 Macbook Air, but the battery lasts about five minutes and I use it way too much to take the time to get it replaced. Especially when it's old enough to not be supported soon. But if I could just spend $50 and replace the battery myself without fucking things up, which I totally would as things stand now, I would be able to use it without keeping it plugged in all the time like I used to.
Good news, it applies to all battery operated devices, not just phones
They should also demand unlocked boot loaders and open drivers for all devices. That or steep penalties if they don't support the devices for at least 10 years. We should have manuals and specifications for every component, really. We really need to reduce waste.
Can't want to be able to buy used phone and just pop in new battery. Still we need a law to allow easier mobile operating systems development for third-parties.
Will literally anyone in the EU help me immigrate? ill do anything to get out of Murica.
I should make a business out of that lol
You can literally do that with any business. Start up a business and hire people from abroad to work for you in the country and just sponsor their visa while they go through the process. That's one of the more common ways that people use, that and marrying a native.
That sounds like work.. I'll go the marrying route instead, there's more butt stuff that way
I'll marry you. How much?
Edit: fuck I'm not EU anymore.
Honestly, I'm all for it if it means bringing back ridiculously sized phone batteries with huge bumps that can act as a finger shelf. My note 2 with a 4200mah battery was a beast in 2013.
Or the Zero Lemon 9000mAh battery back for that phone. Insane capacity, but a "tad" bulky.
Totally forgot about the complete back replacements like that! I'll take 5. . Week long battery life here I come.
The Note 2 was my favorite phone. The replaceable back with the cover option was the best. Want your phone to look brand new? That'll only cost $20.
I never replaced the battery though.
I'm glad they got specific. I wonder where Apple's self-service battery replacement program falls under this? AFAIK it's not free. They charge a fee to rent the specialized tools, which are also proprietary.
This gives Apple a few choices:
Looking forward to seeing If companies will just do the bare minimum to pass or if we'll see some actual innovation. It would be cool to be able to buy spare batteries, that are quick to replace and easy to carry around along with a charging station or something so you can always have a full battery with you.
I bet The Apple battery, just a replacement or a dedicated module like I said above, will be starting at like $249
Apple will figure out a way to DRM batteries so that no one but them can sell them and they'll cost as much as a new phone.
Well, uhm… - it’s been designed in California, you know?!
Modern batteries have a thin polymer shell. Sit down with that spare battery in the same pocket as your keys, and your leg is going to catch on fire.
My old Nokia had a swappable battery - but that battery was thicker than an entire iPhone.
Quality power banks have been around for years.
This is just extra steps to a fat phone.
Lol
If you treat an iPhone well it can definitely last 6+ years. My last one did, wait it out my guy.
EU citizenship is a dream.
EU is killing it right now. Charging port regulation and now removable batteries in everything. If companies are forced to produce different models for the EU maybe just maybe it will be cost effective to just make all their phones with removable batteries. One can hope, cause you know the US wont pass that type of consumer protection regulation.
Not a bad idea but there are flaws and this also doesn't seem to address the issue of pricing or availability.
When Apple want to, they can design amazing things. So I look forward to see if they come up with a clever Apple-like way to do this. Or maybe they just make it easier to remove the back.
If you buy each iphone components individually through Apple service center, the cost added up to equal multiple brand-new iphone (and you still not have enough components to assemble a full iphone).
This is nothing new. If you buy all the parts to a car from a car manufacturer it adds up to several cars.
Battery DRM?
Then they wouldn't be able to sell their phones in the EU. Regulators may be stupid, but even they can see that it's a blatant disregard to the rule of replaceable batteries.
I mean, Bosch eBikes already do this. You can only use official batteries with them
Watch Bosh change their tune a mere days before this law becomes effective.
I see something like this every few years.EU has to make a fine so heavy that it's impossible to just pay as a tax of doing business.
Unless that's all it really is.
Now will companies also offer this in the usa or will they have 2 models for sale
You know they are gonna have a special EU model. I can feel it.
I think that would depend on how much EU citizens care about being fully waterproof. I assume there will be focus groups.
If that is a high priority for EU customers, then it will cause Apple to have to do an entire redesign. If they ended up doing that, then I don't see any reason why they would make a separate US model line. If EU citizens don't care about waterproof and are fine with it being water resistant, then I could see them having a waterproof non removable US version and an EU version that has removable, but is only water resistant.
There is a real risk that the US eventually follows suit, and there is no reason to re-tool twice if you don't need to.
Samsung Galaxy Xcover Pro with removable battery and IP68 entered the chat
Wasn't the S5 like 67?
Yes, the S5 was IP67. The Xcover Pro is an actual phone with both.
There was/is more than these two examples. You have others like the CAT phones.
I'm not sure anybody really cares about waterproof. I have a waterproof smart watch, but realistically I'm not going to wear it swimming.
Pretty much every phone that I've ever owned that has died has died not because it was introduced to some water, but because the battery failed. Cost benefit analysis would indicate that a user replaceable battery is of a higher priority for most consumers. And the rest just won't care one way or the other.
Anyway the current iPhone isn't waterproof, it's only water resistant. Very few companies will advertise their phones is actually waterproof in case somebody tries it.
I have a water resistant smart watch and I take it swimming all of the time. I see lots of others swimming with smartwatches too. Smart watches are usually fitness tracker. I very much care that the watch is water resistant. I care more about that than having a user replaceable battery, which I’m unlikely to replace given that I never did when replaceable batteries were common in phones.
Waterproofing isn't important so I can take it swimming; it's important in case I drop it in a puddle.
The battery on an iPhone is good for about 1000 charge cycles (will maintain at least 85% capacity), which is about 3 years of normal use. After that, it costs like $80 to have Apple replace the battery. That's absolutely worth it to me for the improved water resistance.
Not a great argument, it's not impossible to have both. The Galaxy S5 was IP67 and had removable batteries (my favorite phone so far). There is a Galaxy out right now with removable batteries with IP68. Iphones are 67 to 68 depending on the model.
Well in my defense I have no idea what I’m talking about.
I doubt most companies would bother. Apple is probably the only one with the volume to bother.
True epically since they have a huge share of the American market
God bless the European union, doing the kind of consumer protection that America won't.
I remember when apple put out a software update to intentionally throttle the phone's processor, to save charge on it's irreplacable battery. I hope this prevents companies doing this sort of shit as well.
I think apple will comply by including a dongle battery that can be replaced but no one will actually carry with their phone
I tried Ctrl+F searching to see whether anyone here had pasted the link to the law, and didn't find anything, so I went to Presearch and found this, which appears to be the official European Union log for it, and has attached PDFs at the end with what seem to be the nitty-gritty for further reading...
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/07/10/council-adopts-new-regulation-on-batteries-and-waste-batteries/
If I've found an errant page that just looks official, please link something better for those looking for the legalese
You can already replace your own iPhone battery without any technical expertise. I hope the law is more specific than that, because there are many things OEMs can do to comply and still make it a giant pain in the ass to do.
Press x to doubt. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've replaced multiple iPhone batteries with only a YouTube video. The problem is that the glue and placement can be a complete pain in the ass and user replacement voids warranty. Hopefully the law specifically states that user replacement should have a certain level of ease and does not void warranty.
I believe it says the battery has to be replaceable by the end-user without any kind of tools or heat.
Common screw drivers are ok, or they include the specialised screw driver in the package. Heat is a no go though, which makes me very happy.
Source
So if I understand this correctly:
Hex screws are pretty standard. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd imagine they would be acceptable.
That being said, I never understood the reason to have 5 different types of screws around. Can we just have one type for everything?
All of that sounds pretty shitty and unreasonable
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on
And this is something we don't want. Battery should be replaced with no special tools other than regular screwdriver or simillar.
You don't seem to know it, but you're arguing against your point that you "need no technical expertise"
They provided a kit and step by step instructions. It remains to be seen how they handle it, but don’t be surprised if they argue they already comply if that’s how the language of the law is written.
You don’t seem to know it, but nebulous jargon like ‘technical expertise’ can be applied to anything like using a microwave so Apple includes instructions. Not seeing how this invalidates their point
The tagline is literally “I’m starting to think Apple doesn’t want us to repair them”.
also having watched SnazzyLabs do this swap, it’s complicated and you’ll need to contact Apple to deal with code changes.
And I literally said in my comment that it’s a pain in the ass. That’s not the point, what “technical expertise” means is.
Can you, though? No, you can’t. Its really hard to get right and super easy to fuck up. Source: Me.
So is changing out any part on your car. It remains to be seen how this is applied.
Most people can't put on a screen protector properly. I wouldn't perhaps go as far as claiming replacing iPhone battery takes no technical expertise. It's not hard but not quite easy either. In the case of iPhone there's also that even if you do it properly the device still detects it's not the original Apple approved battey so they limit functions on your phone such as battery health, true tone etc. New MacBooks does this aswell.
They probably need additional legislation to stop companies from locking down products when non own parts are used.
With my shaky hands and clumsiness? I'd kill my phone just by touching the innards.
Technical expertise includes really basic things like being comfortable using a screwdriver on delicate equipment. Lots of people lack that level of expertise.
Waterprood Devuces do not need a Changeable Batterie because its a Loophole in the Paper
As long as they can engineer a water resistant phone with these guidelines I'm all for it.
Now upgradable storage and memory on apple computers please
The thing is, what Apple is doing with memory actually does make sense from a performance and efficiency standpoint. Modern CPUs and GPUs have become so fast that the time signals take to travel between components (like memory and CPU) has become critical (especially in their new M1 products as memory is being shared between the CPU and GPU). That being said, the same definitely isn't true for storage. Apple soldering SSDs to the motherboard is just them trying to rip their customers off.
God bless the EU. They are just so far ahead of the rest of the world on consumer protection (and much else). Will hopefully force everyone else into compliance.
This needs to be sooner, they 100% have the ability to adhere to this law after the next generation
fuck yeah!! eu rules!
Next up: SCREENS.
I long for the day that a cracked screen becomes a simple swap-out fix.
Especially since so many corporate shitlords seem to intentionally "engineer obsolescence" by making them not very durable to even minor drops with reasonable cases (or various other bizarre things, like pets jumping up while you're taking a picture or similar)
So, would it be possible to get an eu model with any chance of working here in the U.S? I love a removable battery
Only EU though.
Why just batteries?
Hell yes!! Step 1 of who knows towards better repairability for one of the most complex technologies accessible to most of the people on the planet.
Hopefully these companies will realize that it's just easier to make these changes globally and trickle this down to other countries, but we'll have to see. I personally would want the US to continue this trend, like with what we saw in the Agricultural Right to Repair Act. Maybe an Electronics Right to Repair Act?
Kinda late now, we used to have battery problems, they would lose performance after 1-2 years, but not anymore. It would be better if they forced manufacturers to provide easy glass and touchscreen replacement which tend to fail much before batteries
Speaking of this topic, can someone recommend some "free" phone, free as in speech, with disk storage of at least 0.75 TB (with or without sd card)?
I wanted to get a pixel and install graphene on it, but the max storage there is 256 GB, which is miserably low, with no sd card. I'm considering Fairphone. Any suggestions?
Though I applaud this as a next step in taking back ownership of that which we buy, I do wonder how this will affect keeping phones dust and water tight, like the IP68 rating...
No doubt an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather keep the IP rating than be able to swap my own battery without the phone becoming a literal brick.
I doubt this is a scenario where we can have both.
You can absolutely have both. In fact the galaxy S5 had both a swappable battery and IP67. Tons of devices do. Glued construction was always about reducing manufacturing costs, not about an IP rating.
Galaxy S5 had a removable battery and IP67 and is a 2014 phone. The technology was there, so it has probably evolved enough in this 9 years.
There are a few phones that have removable batteries with good water resistance. No phone is completely waterproof, so I don't really care whether It can withstand 1 meter of water for 5 minutes verse 10 meters of water for an hour. It's not like I am taking my phone snorkeling.
The Samsung S5 had an IP rating of 67, which can withstand temporary submersion and had removable batteries. I frigging loved that phone.
They are not exclusive. My S5 Active served me well.
Sony Xperia latest ones have headphone jack, IP rating for salt water, SD card, toolless sim tray and headphone jack. With a 4k screen. It's absolutely fine. Manufacturers just don't care.
I would rather have expandable storage mandated than replaceable batteries but obviously that's not going to happen.
And bring back the TRS port for both midrange and flagship devices, I hope.
Good thing to wake up to in the morning.
They better define the term «replacable» extensively !
Good idea, terrible execution. I'd prefer they make manufacturers display the state of a battery (iOS already has this) and provide a single free battery replacement, which doesn't expire with a warranty period. Also, battery replacement service should be free, customers should only pay for battery itself. Current implementation is ridiculous - I don't want the return of fat smartphones with detachable battery.
While I am for this, this could create more E waste. Now there will be companies producing more batteries as consumers can now swap out batteries. So it's possible that tons of batteries now just sit on shelves for years and eventually end up going to waste.
The problem with removable batteries is that you sacrifice water-proofness. That's why iPhone batteries aren't removable: Apple found that, on average, people prefer a water-proof phone over a replaceable battery. If you make the battery to removable, you can't use sealants anymore, you're just relying on a gasket.
Personally, I would rather have a phone that can handle being dropped in a sink full of dishes and am happy to pay $80 every 3 years to have the battery swapped.
I really don’t like the idea of governments regulating tech and innovations. Although this seems like a good idea, it could severely limit companies in the way they design their phones.
People think that Apple and Samsung maliciously make irreplaceable batteries, but these people barely know how to use their phone in the first place, much less how the phone was engineered. Battery implementation in super thin devices is not a simple affair. Requiring tech to have certain things is really dumb. Let the capitalistic market and buyers figure out what they need. Don’t force it through government.
we can do better than soldered batteries inside unopenable super thin phone cases. These companies have no motivation to innovate any sort of repairability, and now they will have it.
Lol this is such bull shit
It’s not about motivation it’s about need
Nobody is clamoring for this accept the EU government and some right to repair fanatics who most likely don’t repair jack in their own lives and haven’t needed nor requested replacement smartphone batteries
Because nobody needs them anymore lol. Market buddy if this was something important we’d be getting it
Agreed. Too bad the 11 disagrees didn’t have the stones to voice their dissenting opinion
Although I am also very much against government control over things and believe that for every one good control law from the government, we get 5 things that infringe upon our rights, I believe this particular legislation is a good one. I don't think that phone manufacturers maliciously make irreplaceable batteries (although they do many other malicious things, so who knows), but there was a race for thinness back in the mid-2000s when irreplaceable batteries were "invented"; now it's just inertia. In any case, I can see a demand for fully repairable items and believe that the market is moving in that direction; governments are just pushing it a little.
Fuck the EU. I hope we still get good small phones and EU assholes only get big bloated as fuck ones.
This is EU actively making my phone more shitty.
How old are you? Small phones with replacement batteries have always existed. Batteries being removable has nothing to do with size, that's industry propaganda.
If anything, phones have gotten BIGGER as batteries became non-removable. But that's just because people buy big phones more.
Name one lmao
MOST flagship Android phones 10 years ago were small and had removable batteries. The Galaxy S5 was the last flagship from Samsung to do it, to name one.
They've always been bigger. You show me a phone with a removable battery and I'll show you a phone that's smaller with similar features from a close time period. Might even be ip68 to boot.
Your logic is flawed. Phones have only gotten BIGGER as removable batteries have been phased out. Nearly every phone today is huge, and hardly any have removable batteries.
The Galaxy S series had removable batteries until the S6 dropped the feature. And the S5 was IP67 rated. Small, waterproof phones with big, removable batteries are entirely possible. You're just falling for the propaganda.
HTC droid Incredible.
Who says there can't be SFF phones with replacable batteries. In fact, old samsung phones had replacable batteries.
And they were bigger than comparable htc's, were flimsy, and ip68 was a pipe dream.
Search for galaxy s5. And there were plenty of other ones too. Or you just forgot the /s
What about the small phones back in the 00's with replaceable batteries?
All of them bigger than integrated solutions.
or installing any OS you want without voiding the warranty? I mean when you buy a computer, no one cares if you install Windows or Linux. So why do smartphone manufacturers care?
Unless a lot as changed, they do care.
Every single laptop and any prebuilt computer I find in the market comes pre installed with a Windows.
A good friend approached me to install a Linux on a brand new machine and just to make sure we called the customer support line, informing there was interest to return the windows license, as the software would not be used.
The reply we got was that by removing the software the warranty of the equipment would be null and void. The option was to ship the computer to their maintenance provider and have it removed, with costs presented at end for labour.
In the EU at least that would be illegal - you can't void an entire warranty, only relevant bits.. and since windows doesn't have a warranty anyway..
The canonical example is you can't void the warranty on a car engine because you changed the stereo. 'Doing x will void the warranty' is almost never the full story.
I am in the EU.
We were caught in a never ending circle of being sent between seller, manufacturer and Microsoft in order to have the Windows license returned.
I did end up installing a Linux on the machine but my friend got chewed by the seller when he took it in to have the card reader replaced.
In fairness, the seller usually isn't expected to be the most up to date on warranty law.
The manufacturer would have to prove that the OS change caused the issue to void warranty.
Well, an unlockable bootloader that allows flashing any operating system would be nice. You can install Linux on a Macbook, so why not an iPhone?
Hardware should not ever be locked to an operating system.
You stress it like it's a bad thing
"But it would be bad for my favorite trillion dollar corporation and for their bottom line!!!!!"
I'll never understand consumers who insist to take the side of the corporation rather than the side of the customer on these issues.
Because this isn’t good for the consumer only short sighted leftists who love others taking control for them are cool with the government telling companies how they can make their products
Instead of posting a rant about "short sighted leftists," why don't you explain precisely why it would be so horrible if users were able to install whatever operating system they wanted to install on the devices they've purchased with their own money?
You say that like Apple would have to put in a ton of work for that. Android can already run on iPhones. It's just an ARM computer. Project Sandcastle already exists. All they have to do is allow unlocking the bootloader just like they do on macs.
Ability for OS makers to freely port their systems would be super cool. Replacable batteries with this and imagine how used phone market would shine up.
My parents won't spend more than 150$ on a phone. I don't want to buy them cheap Android phones that are always loaded with spyware and installs dozens of bloat on first boot. I want to buy used 5 year's old phone with much high build quality, then slap new lightweight OS and new battery in it.