Here's a fun thing. Using the latest AI to code backend and front-end code. Every couple of weeks, have to stop, go through every line and module, and throw out pretty much 90% of the code, manually refactor, and rewrite it.
It offers a good starting point, but the minute things get slightly complicated, you have to step in. I feel bad for people who think this will make it so they don't need experienced developers and architects. They're in for a rough ride.
An interesting point I heard the other day: if AI can replace entry level jobs, doing simple scripts that AI can definitely do (because it essentially just spits out the stack overflow/Reddit/etc training data verbatim), then companies no longer need entry level programmers.
If they don't need entry level programmers, how do you get future senior programmers? Skipping directly to advanced stuff without getting practical experience on the simple stuff is incredibly hard.
What happens when the current senior programmers retire in larger numbers, and there's very few replacements because the ladder is gone?
That's a problem for Q72 and they're incapable of looking past Q4. Besides, they'll have already jumped ship by then, what do the execs care if they make this quarter just ever so slightly more profitable
What happens when the current senior programmers retire in larger numbers, and there's very few replacements because the ladder is gone?
I don't have a solution. I'm just stocking up on physical paper books, so I'll have something to entertain me while nothing works, until someone figures it out.
(I'm sort of joking, and sort of serious. I do expect Internet service outages to become a lot more common. But I actually just like books, anyway.)
Agree. Software engineering is a marathon - not a sprint. These AI tools are useful to get something up real quick, but I have a hard time seeing how they can be useful for long term maintenance work.
It’s still a marathon, even if the name ”sprint” is used. The point is the same: software engineering is about ensuring long term maintenance. It’s about building software that can sustain through multiple sprints.
The typical code from an AI agent can barely sustain a single sprint without having to restart from scratch.
I know, but in most companies they don't give a fuck.
What's done is done, sure there can be some minor maintenance, but goodness forbids you need to rewrite something that handles the 10x throughtput that built up over the years.
I am usually able to get some cleanup tasks in, but from what I've heard, not many people are.
It's just sad, that some think 'sprint' means 'this is done and dont dare to tell me you need more time, what have you been doing the last X sprints?'.
The first draft is fun.
The second draft is pain.
The third draft is cathartic.
Figure out features, add add add.
Add/change features, realise the spaghetti mess and poor design decisions you made in the first draft.
Clean everything up with better design and code.
Having been a coder for decades before AI came on the scene, I don't understand how inexperienced programmers could possibly write a serious amount of working code with AI.
It's wrong, like, at least half the time, but as an experienced coder, I can look at the "code" it generated and know what it was trying to do, and then write it correctly. I do find AI useful when I'm not sure how to go about solving a particular code-related issue, but ... it just gives me something to think about, not an answer I can use directly.
Yeah like if you start coming across snippets that aren't even properly indented, you know you're digging the real bottom of the barrel (been there while struggling to fix email templating I knew nothing about back in the day). Now, the code you get from the LLM looks totally legitimate to the untrained eye, and it may even generate a convincing explanation.
You won't have any indication when it's dead wrong until you try to run it. And even then, it may be "working" in a way unintended because you don't actually understand what you copy+pasted, because neither does the LLM ofc.
I can't even imagine the spaghetti bowl you can get yourself into if you just keep vibe coding yourself deeper and deeper, while understanding nothing.
The spaghetti bowl is the real problem. You can make something that works, but it's so fragile because the solution is rarely general and never elegant. The snippet might be surprisingly elegant, but it will reimplement the same code 3 different ways in 3 different places and the whole thing turns into a mess
You can see the quality if you're an experienced coder. My comment lacks personal context in that I was in school in 2010 and there were plenty of my classmates who would plug snippets into their projects without fundamentally understanding what it did or learning what the project was supposed to teach us. Similar to a shortcut with AI in 2025.
There are definitely people who cut & pasted from stack overflow in the work environment, too. The difference is that I, as the clean-up crew, could google their code and find the post it came from ... and then I could read the comments and figure out wtf they thought they were trying to do. When they paste LLM-generated code in, there's no trace of where the dumbfuckery came from.
Just thinking about it makes me glad I'm near retirement.
I can look at the "code" it generated and know what it was trying to do, and then write it correctly. I do find AI useful when I'm not sure how to go about solving a particular code-related issue, but ... it just gives me something to think about, not an answer I can use directly.
So glad to see others that do that. Still haven't really tried to understand what vibe coding is, as I try and ignore passing terms, but I was starting to think it was just using the AI assistants in any way. I use it in the same way as you and find it perfectly fine for that purpose but I can't imagine using it for anything more.
I tried using chatgpt to write a basic batch file, it ended up such a horrendous mess that i gave up halfway through. Fucker got told four times, still kept putting the REM on the same line as actual code.
The goal isn’t to sell coding superpowers to programmers. It’s to drive a wedge between employer and employee. Make both of them dependent on an intermediary instead of each other.
Think DoorDash but for coding gigs. You don’t have a job, but a series of push notifications offering a chance to review an 18-line PR for $3.81.
Remember to respond within the next 90 seconds to maintain your priority status, and don’t decline too many offers.
It's the same cycle since the '70s. Whether it's COBOL or VB.NET or vibe coding, the premise hasn't changed.
There's three broad categories of code:
Monkey code (random applets that are almost entirely business logic and non-critical)
Actual code (most things)
Crazy shit like kernel or browser code.
I can see vibe coding, situationally, lower the barrier to entry of (1). But also that's no different from COBOL or VB.NET which both promise "MBAs can now write code", which conveniently never extends to maintaining said code. And vibe coding doesn't help with that either, ChatGPT is an awful debugger.
Your boss thinks ChatGPT will help with (2), but it either won't or only very slightly as an advanced autocomplete. For any problem-solving that requires more specific domain knowledge than can automatically find its way into their tiny context windows, LLMs are essentially useless.
.... So I'm not worried. Today's vibe coders are yesterday's script kiddies.
It seems OK at spewing out a bit of code it found on StackOverflow, or even joining two bits of code together, but it really falls apart when you poke at the edges of it's knowledge.
And the problem is, neither you nor it knows where those limits are, and it very quickly goes from confident copy and paste to confident bullshit.
It even knows what excuses smell like, so it'll give you one at random when you call it out.
I think you're severely underestimating how lazy some people are, lol. I totally get what you're saying, and from a logical perspective it makes sense. It's just that if you survey enough people, i really think you'd be surprised at how little effort some are willing to put forth for just about anything
But it's going to take hours of debugging every time. If you actually learn how to write code, you'll get better at it over time and reuse common functions. It'll take less time as you get better.
Well... Just because you can code does not guarantee you will find it enjoyable. It's pretty common for people to like certain aspects of coding but not others. For instance, I personally find writing unit tests boring. So if something came by that made writing them less mundane I would certainly be enticed.
Yeah no. For example microcontrollers, which are how I learned it. There are so absurdly many traps to fall into that even within the first 10 things I did I ran into some obscure detail of the ATmega328p. And the kept happening ever since, each time lots of googling and trial and error. Now with GPT you know how much time this saves? Not just the coding itself, but also these absurd details that only an expert knows. Yes perhaps it does the same error, but after reiterating it usually sees the problem. I can also throw some datasheet for some chip at it and get exactly how to program it with what setting etc.
It enables me to do FAR more advanced things. And the new 3o and 4o mini are really much better again. Code often works out of the box now.
I love how people simply downvote me for saying these things. As if me repairing an E-Bike is somehow a bad thing, just because an LLM was what enabled me to actually do it. As is programming for some reason should be an arcane art. As if technology has not always been changing in exactly the same way. With people saying "The way you do it is wrong!" and 20 years later nobody does it the old way. LLM have exploded in a few years and have come extremely far, what do you think they are capable of in 10 years? All those silly little mistakes they still do, gone.
I think we're still in the Win95 plug and play phase. Granted I have been using Claude 3.7 thinking and I will try o3 mini or whatever I have access to via Kagi tomorrow, but today I spent 2.5 hours trying to get AI to vibe code me a bash script that could read a system group member list and write it into a users .k5login file when run. It came up with lots of stuff that looked good but in the end still made an empty file. I even tried to help it with what I guess are oddities of our system but it didn't work. I tried editing it enough to where I felt like I was very close to just writing it myself with documentation hints and ran out of time.
Idk if it's me not prompting right (but if so then I'm going to have to learn a proxy skill rather than just learn the skill which seems silly when it seems so opaque to learn the proxy skill. Like if I need to ask for help to prompt and it's complicated why not just learn the code?) or just that as soon as you hit a non public even slightly customized environment AI just doesn't have the context necessary and there's no easy way to get it to it securely yet or maybe Claude isn't that good (but it was pretty loved for like 6 months for writing code)... Or the hype works in very limited ways and IDK when that'll change.
Save Time where? If you want to code more than snake, you need to have a basic knowledge of coding anyway, and once you know how to code, you will want to code in your own style. And if you just want to make basic programs, just fork someones github project and change a few lines.
You're saying this with your understanding of the field. The people pushing this are either untrained (and thus don't know what's going wrong) or are trying to milk money out of the former.
Idk about the last bit. I've done some vibe coding debugging to fix game mods written in languages and frameworks I don't know and have no interest in learning at the moment. I still look over the output, but given a lack of knowledge, I'd still consider it vibe based
I don't have the bandwidth to know enough about everything I encounter to be passable, and sometimes I just want to make some random thing work with the minimal amount of effort so I can get back to the actual task at hand.
And yeah, its pretty great what it could do, but for someone who (is his own words) can tweak the code so it works, it tool longer to make a Prompt than just coding the Game yourself
Also, Tetris in JS is like Babys first JS project, so even if you really wanted to just get Tetris from somewhere, you could have just git pulled any github project
I've been using chatgpt to help me build a Bubble website. That is, I am doing all the work, I just bounce questions of how to achieve things and structure conditional statements correctly.
Because I'm basically sanity checking everything it says vs copying blindly, it's interesting to see just how much it gets caught in a loop of misinformation. I'm lucky to be one of those learners who just needs an example, even if it's a shitty one, to figure it out myself, so I often find myself using it simply to see how it's NOT done.
But yeah, I know jack shit about coding but I'm sure AI code sucks ass.
Good for you to want to learn a new skill and taking things that LLMs spit out with healthy skepticism. I'm afraid future generations will lack such motivation.
I'll go against the grain here: I'm not worried. If you actually care about what you do, even vibe coding can teach you something, it could be a starting point. The internet is not going away, and just looking up this or that thing the AI spit out will help you learn what you're working with.
Is it the same as an uni CS course? No of course, but how many of us got our start just tinkering with stuff we didn't understand?
While I agree with you, the unfortunate trend of common folks is to take the easiest path to accomplish their goal.
If that means using a tool they don't understand to achieve a solution instead of being forced to learn from tinkering, I think most people will opt for that route.
They won't take that extra step to comprehend what the AI spits out.
Those kind of people would have behaved the same anyway, copy pasting from the internet or wasting others' time some different way.
I guess we could argue whether giving them AI will act as a multiplier for their damage output or will reduce it because the AI will be savvier than them, but personally I don't see things changing much.
Ya @[email protected] local-free-open gonna eat some billion-$ corp lunch—this is exciting for everyone, almost
Eugene you able to connect the Reality Check complaint screenshot to the thread for me?
Also any issue with one volunteer contributor training a model on public domain code, and sharing with their friend who uses it free locally to generate a custom script? (Context to help can be disabled non-coder who wants an accessibility script.) Considering the contrast between that and the non-coder searching StackOverflow all day, and looking to understand what the volunteer & disabled friend did wrong in one scenario but not the other.
Excuse the sympathetic scenario, just wanna make things easier. Not asking anyone to defend Sam Altman!
Yeah, two completely similar things! The machine that allows ypu to draw without buying expensive art supplies constantly vs the "let's turn shitty ideas into full products for the sake of social media clout" machine.🤡
As someone who can't code, I spent some time vibe coding a python bot that would take screenshots of a webpage and post them to Discord, but after an hour of creating more errors with each iteration, I gave up. I rather just get someone skilled and pay them for it as opposed to wasting time with something that thinks it's always right
If it's for personal use and hobby stuff, you could try to learn and code it yourself!
Knowing how to make scripts yourself for specific small tasks is a useful skill, and since it's for yourself you don't need to stress about getting too deep into it :)
It's very helpful that there are a handful of nonsense phrases that AI has scraped by reading journal articles wrong. They're commonly published in magazine format with a bunch of narrow columns, so there's some gibberish that AI scraped by reading across the page instead of down the columns. I want to make a database of those nonsense phrases so that I can just Ctrl+F in a journal article to see if I should just skip reading it because it's AI garbage.
Well if it helps for y'all to know, if I can't put my measly webpage making skills to decent use in the course of a weeks time, I'll be buying the services of a freelancer because hoooooly shite am I rusty.
(I need to update my basic website and am terribly lazy. Maybe making some extra cash would make a kid somewhere happy.)
((Don't message me here though I don't check messages))
I had to google Vibe Coding. Seems like it's not actual coding and you'd then have to check the code yourself and at that point why bother? Easier to start with something that makes sense then the understand and fix a cluster fuck.
In vibe "coding", you ask the AI for the code and just run it. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, you just ask the AI again, or another AI. Ad infinitum.
Check the code yourself? That's like 5th century pleb work, vibe "coders" would be wasting their precious time when they can just ask another AI to do it.
I struggle so much with this. People were already bad at reading emails and following instructions (e.g. ask them to answer 4 questions which I have helpfully listed below, in bold, and they answer the first one and call it a day) but now they just let the a.i. handle it. So instead of not getting answers, I get incorrect and unreviewed answers that just sound like they might be right.
Then of course when I do the work, and it turns out to be completely useless because it was based on bad information, and it needs to be completely redone. That means wasted hours of time and productivity for me with nothing to show for it. All because someone else wanted to save 5 minutes.
It's not possible to make you unskilled if you're skilled. At worst, you'd get rusty. It is possible that your skills might not be in high demand anymore though.
The only thing that would make programmers not be in demand is if "vibe coding" were truly producing a better product than traditional programming. So far, the only ones making that claim are the ones desperately trying to sell "AI" before the bubble bursts. It's true that there are some companies that really want to believe it. But, companies are always desperately hoping for something that can allow them to fire their expensive workers. It's rare that that works out.
In that case it's not talking about "deskilling", it's about "not skilling in the first place".
But, those are completely different things. I was never skilled in riding horses, the way I assume my great grandparents were. I didn't learn how to use a sliderule like my grandfather did. But, I still learned skills that were valuable for the moment in history where I grew up. There's never any guarantee that a baby born today will get to the age of 20 with skills that are useful enough that someone will pay them to use those skills.
As for programming, it isn't some kind of nefarious goal to make sure that tomorrow's children won't know how to do it. It's an immediate short-term goal to try to save money by not having to hire people with specialty skills. If that gamble pays off, then it will be like using a sliderule. Kids won't learn it because it isn't a skill that's in demand anymore. If AI turns out to be a niche thing, rather than a massively transformational technology, then tomorrow's kids will learn to be programmers in whatever languages are hot in 20 years.
OpenAI wants people to rely on their products, sure. But, they're not in a position to "deskill" people. In the grand scheme of things they're just a small vendor. A random software company in Montana isn't going to deliberately deskill their employees to improve OpenAI's bottom line.
Cool, so it wasn't just me. I had to read that word multiple times before I understood it was "de-skill (-ing)". Or, at least I think that's what the word is supposed to mean.
As usual, people assign conspiratorial motives and strategies to behavior that's really an extremely simple straight line between two points: "AI software has a lower apparent cost than hiring another developer, so let's use AI."
I think this so much less convincing than selling AI as a replacement for skilled labor, not as a way to intentionally deskill actual software engineers.
Capitalism already has a way of preventing you from making your own commodities - you sell your time, and the less they pay you for it relative to how much you need to live, the less time you have for yourself to put towards self sufficiency. We don't have many FOSS products, not because nobody has the knowledge or skill to make them, but because nobody has the time to make them.
There are plenty of reasons to hate corporate-owned AI products, we don't need to be hallucinating new ones.
I use copilot at work. the predictive generation is pretty good i.e you start writing a for loop and it finishes it for you with all the variable names used correctly (most of the time). This also has the added benefit of making you name your variables clearly. the better they are the better the predicitions will be. i wouldnt trust it to do more than that though
A friend of mine wanted to make an incremental game. I told them "hey that's a pretty good project to learn programming with" but they insisted on using an LLM. Then they proudly showed me what they got so far, it was a decent looking singular html page, but without any game logic whatsoever. Most of the code was just stylesheets - and even those had some questionable things going on lol
On the other side, if it's "deskilling" to do vibe coding instead of real coding isn't this person saying that the barrier to entry for coding has been lowered?
Either vibe coding is not effective and is therefore not taking away the skill of coding or it is effective enough to replace aspects of coding that you would otherwise need to develop the skill to do.
Like if I'm an engineer or a real estate agent or a business...dude, and I want to use coding in my field but I don't have the time or desire to start learning a whole skill (anywhere from having children to just learning too many skills already) I assume vibe coding is my best friend.
I think it can do some stuff, especially some entry level tedium.
So far I haven't seen a single success on the specific things I've tried it for, even when pretty short, other than exceedingly trivial things like reminding me whether this language has a join as a string method or as an array method of o don't use it that often.
I do see potential for an awkward gap between unskilled and skilled where an entry level person doesn't have as clear a path to getting actually better. In math this generally happens in school, where they keep students from using the most effective tools until they prove they can do without it. So education might have to go a bit further into programming skills rather than delegating quite so much to the professional workplace that may be less inclined.
Im not going to lie, I totally vibe code. Ive been using it to build guis that help speed up repetitive processes. Vibe coding has been helping me learn too code. I think people abuse it for sure. The code still needs to be checked since LLMs are about as trustworthy as Quora.
It's basically the same as programming, just very indirect and slow- but it still requires you to fundamentally understand the concepts of the 'modules' you are using. Vibe coding has borderline random elements.
I mean it's only a problem depending on the cost of the tools? Renting 4-5k a year worth of tools to make 150k might be ok to some people. While you are at risk of every increasing prices you could just use the time that it's cheap now to when it gets expensive later to educate yourself.
What's the alternative give some college 250k plus crazy interest rates and 4 years of your life?
Just like with all tools blue collar or white they are worth what you can earn from using them.
I get what your saying but on a personal level I enjoy being able to complete tasks as efficiently and quickly as possible. This is divorced entirely from compensation. Who doesn't?
That book isn't taken seriously by the majority of the educated people. Your literally arguing against making your own life easier. We were talking about AI tools before you went off on a commie-tangent.
Ask an LLM to write code for you. Paste it into your IDE, try to run it. Describe the problems to your IDE and ask how to fix them. Lather rinse repeat.
You can always tell when your on a new bug when you ask about error “exception when calling…” and AI returns your exact implementation of the error back as a solution.
No. Not really. “Computer” also used to refer to a human profession. I believe “programmer” will be exclusively referring to an AI role in a generation or two.
But that will enable more people to become software designers and architects. Like a mathematician, they’ll need to understand how to perform programming tasks manually, but won’t need to do so in day to day work.
They error out all the time with bad input. But the tech has long been perfected on the basics, you’re right about that. But naive to think AI will never get to that point for any tasks.
AI can do it cheaper... so just have the AI do it. Its that simple, people really don't like it when things are so simple but can't do anything about it. So they just make shit up like this.
He still got a point, but premise is pretty ridiculous.
Looks like they don't understand what "vibe coding" means beyond that it involves AI and therefore has a black hat and is bad. That's what happens when people learn everything from memes.
As I understand it, it was originally meant for "throwaway weekend projects", but then the MBAs got a hold of the term and if you look at job postings nowadays, some companies are really pushing for "AI-first" workers.
The desire obviously isn't just to increase existing dev velocity, but the devalue skills and experience that come from formal education and years of practical learning. Basically to reduce the bargaining power / cost of programmers.
This guy gives a very good rundown on what vibe coding is and how to use it. Basically it's generating code with AI and then going over it like a copy editor. The important point he makes is that the dev should understand and vet everything the code is doing, not expect to type in "Write an inventory tracking system" and be done. It reminds me of people's misconceptions about Object Oriented Programming in the early 90s. Some thought it meant you just create an object called Payroll with a method doPayroll() and some magic happened. edit: And he does think the best use for vibe coding is personal projects, and I agree.
I don't get the concern trolling? If it's so bad, use it, if you don't want to, don't. It seems to me like usual it cannot handle context for long enough to build anything useful, and when you do it becomes extremely over architectured. But others losing their coding skills because they are lazy? I don't know if that's even a problem. Those that want to learn learn. Those who do not, will never code. In the future they can pay for the privilege apparently. I don't see it as a problem. It will only be more useful to actually know how to code. Exponentially. I would never build something lasting on a framework built like this though and would love if we could distinguish generated libraries easily to avoid vulnerabilities and maintainability issues
No hate over here. I don't even disagree with you. I just found it funny that you're so vehemently arguing that vibe coding won't rot your brain, but you tried to express it with a nonsensical "if then" statement.
Edit: To clarify, I do think there's a concerted effort to devalue software engineers. CEOs are pretending that junior engineers can be replaced by LLMs and that senior engineers can get more done in less time with LLMs. I'm deeply skeptical of these claims, and I think they're lying through their teeth in order to drive their stock prices up in the short term, and software engineer salaries down in the medium/long term. So, I don't think LLMs are as competent as they claim. I also don't think they'll rot your brain if you choose to "vibe code".
I don't agree. I have never said anything like that. I think it is a poor learning tool. None of my comment is indicative of being even close to what strawman argument you are hating on
This implies to me that you disagree with the post, which says corporations are deliberately deskilling people with LLMs.
But others losing their coding skills because they are lazy? I don't know if that's even a problem. Those that want to learn learn. Those who do not, will never code.
I agree, and am skeptical that LLMs will make people lose their skills.
So, I don't think corporations are de-skilling people.
My point of clarification is that I think they are de-valuing their labor.
None of my comment is indicative of being even close to what strawman argument you are hating on
What's the strawman argument?
I do not hate you! Why do you keep repeating that?
No, it does not. Concern trolling is when you pretend to be concerned for someone doing something you dislike. They don't care about the vibe coders. They are concern trolling. I pointed out that it is kind of vile that the opposite of ai abuse is ai haters, that vehemently oppose exactly every mention without thinking for themselves. It always becomes more gross than the practice itself and always rimmed with concern trolling and just general hate. Sorry for implying you hate me
Here's a fun thing. Using the latest AI to code backend and front-end code. Every couple of weeks, have to stop, go through every line and module, and throw out pretty much 90% of the code, manually refactor, and rewrite it.
It offers a good starting point, but the minute things get slightly complicated, you have to step in. I feel bad for people who think this will make it so they don't need experienced developers and architects. They're in for a rough ride.
An interesting point I heard the other day: if AI can replace entry level jobs, doing simple scripts that AI can definitely do (because it essentially just spits out the stack overflow/Reddit/etc training data verbatim), then companies no longer need entry level programmers.
If they don't need entry level programmers, how do you get future senior programmers? Skipping directly to advanced stuff without getting practical experience on the simple stuff is incredibly hard.
What happens when the current senior programmers retire in larger numbers, and there's very few replacements because the ladder is gone?
That's a problem for Q72 and they're incapable of looking past Q4. Besides, they'll have already jumped ship by then, what do the execs care if they make this quarter just ever so slightly more profitable
They're incapable of looking past a single quarter, let alone 4.
I don't have a solution. I'm just stocking up on physical paper books, so I'll have something to entertain me while nothing works, until someone figures it out.
(I'm sort of joking, and sort of serious. I do expect Internet service outages to become a lot more common. But I actually just like books, anyway.)
Agree. Software engineering is a marathon - not a sprint. These AI tools are useful to get something up real quick, but I have a hard time seeing how they can be useful for long term maintenance work.
Oh BOY do I have this 'brand new shiny' thing called Agile at almost every fucking company ever.
It’s still a marathon, even if the name ”sprint” is used. The point is the same: software engineering is about ensuring long term maintenance. It’s about building software that can sustain through multiple sprints.
The typical code from an AI agent can barely sustain a single sprint without having to restart from scratch.
I know, but in most companies they don't give a fuck.
What's done is done, sure there can be some minor maintenance, but goodness forbids you need to rewrite something that handles the 10x throughtput that built up over the years.
I am usually able to get some cleanup tasks in, but from what I've heard, not many people are.
It's just sad, that some think 'sprint' means 'this is done and dont dare to tell me you need more time, what have you been doing the last X sprints?'.
If the company you work for truly does not value this effort, then do not do it.
It's not your code base. It's theirs. You are not being rewarded for saving them from themselves. Don't work for free.
Agile doesn't claim that a project can be completed in a sprint.
Tell that to middle management
My middle management knows this. I don't stick around for shit management, we don't deserve each other. There are always other opportunities.
Plus "getting something up real quick" is the fun part.
The first draft is fun.
The second draft is pain.
The third draft is cathartic.
Figure out features, add add add.
Add/change features, realise the spaghetti mess and poor design decisions you made in the first draft.
Clean everything up with better design and code.
It doesn't sound like a good starting point if you have to throw out 90% of it every couple of weeks.
i think the rough ride is a necessary learning experience
Drag feels schadenfreude for them. If they're going to fire their workforce to chase trends, it would be fun for them to go out of business about it.
Having been a coder for decades before AI came on the scene, I don't understand how inexperienced programmers could possibly write a serious amount of working code with AI.
It's wrong, like, at least half the time, but as an experienced coder, I can look at the "code" it generated and know what it was trying to do, and then write it correctly. I do find AI useful when I'm not sure how to go about solving a particular code-related issue, but ... it just gives me something to think about, not an answer I can use directly.
It's like google-coding in 2010; nothing you search for is exactly what you need, but it could help you see why your code isn't working.
Yeah like if you start coming across snippets that aren't even properly indented, you know you're digging the real bottom of the barrel (been there while struggling to fix email templating I knew nothing about back in the day). Now, the code you get from the LLM looks totally legitimate to the untrained eye, and it may even generate a convincing explanation.
You won't have any indication when it's dead wrong until you try to run it. And even then, it may be "working" in a way unintended because you don't actually understand what you copy+pasted, because neither does the LLM ofc.
I can't even imagine the spaghetti bowl you can get yourself into if you just keep vibe coding yourself deeper and deeper, while understanding nothing.
The spaghetti bowl is the real problem. You can make something that works, but it's so fragile because the solution is rarely general and never elegant. The snippet might be surprisingly elegant, but it will reimplement the same code 3 different ways in 3 different places and the whole thing turns into a mess
You can see the quality if you're an experienced coder. My comment lacks personal context in that I was in school in 2010 and there were plenty of my classmates who would plug snippets into their projects without fundamentally understanding what it did or learning what the project was supposed to teach us. Similar to a shortcut with AI in 2025.
There are definitely people who cut & pasted from stack overflow in the work environment, too. The difference is that I, as the clean-up crew, could google their code and find the post it came from ... and then I could read the comments and figure out wtf they thought they were trying to do. When they paste LLM-generated code in, there's no trace of where the dumbfuckery came from.
Just thinking about it makes me glad I'm near retirement.
So glad to see others that do that. Still haven't really tried to understand what vibe coding is, as I try and ignore passing terms, but I was starting to think it was just using the AI assistants in any way. I use it in the same way as you and find it perfectly fine for that purpose but I can't imagine using it for anything more.
I tried using chatgpt to write a basic batch file, it ended up such a horrendous mess that i gave up halfway through. Fucker got told four times, still kept putting the REM on the same line as actual code.
It’s worse than that.
The goal isn’t to sell coding superpowers to programmers. It’s to drive a wedge between employer and employee. Make both of them dependent on an intermediary instead of each other.
Think DoorDash but for coding gigs. You don’t have a job, but a series of push notifications offering a chance to review an 18-line PR for $3.81.
Remember to respond within the next 90 seconds to maintain your priority status, and don’t decline too many offers.
Edit: See also, chickenized reverse-centaurs.
I’m a digital gardener!
This 11 year old adult swim comedy video doesn’t even feel that ridiculous anymore.
It's the same cycle since the '70s. Whether it's COBOL or VB.NET or vibe coding, the premise hasn't changed.
There's three broad categories of code:
I can see vibe coding, situationally, lower the barrier to entry of (1). But also that's no different from COBOL or VB.NET which both promise "MBAs can now write code", which conveniently never extends to maintaining said code. And vibe coding doesn't help with that either, ChatGPT is an awful debugger.
Your boss thinks ChatGPT will help with (2), but it either won't or only very slightly as an advanced autocomplete. For any problem-solving that requires more specific domain knowledge than can automatically find its way into their tiny context windows, LLMs are essentially useless.
.... So I'm not worried. Today's vibe coders are yesterday's script kiddies.
It seems OK at spewing out a bit of code it found on StackOverflow, or even joining two bits of code together, but it really falls apart when you poke at the edges of it's knowledge.
And the problem is, neither you nor it knows where those limits are, and it very quickly goes from confident copy and paste to confident bullshit.
It even knows what excuses smell like, so it'll give you one at random when you call it out.
Debugging is the hardest part, and now you get to spend all your time doing it
I have no idea what vibe coding is, can someone ELI5 it to me?
I have tried AI to get some rough C# for my hobby game but even that was unusable.
‘Vibe coding’ is where you code only with prompts and never look at the generated code.
Seems like a great way to create insecure unmaintainable code if you ask me.
Also I just dont get why you would ever generate code
Like, you have no idea how to code something? Sure, just ask it about methods how to do it. But generating code too? Cant you RTFM?
I think you're severely underestimating how lazy some people are, lol. I totally get what you're saying, and from a logical perspective it makes sense. It's just that if you survey enough people, i really think you'd be surprised at how little effort some are willing to put forth for just about anything
Isn't the reason obvious? To save time? I'm not saying it's a good thing but it seems prettyyyy obvious why people are doing it.
But it's going to take hours of debugging every time. If you actually learn how to write code, you'll get better at it over time and reuse common functions. It'll take less time as you get better.
Well... Just because you can code does not guarantee you will find it enjoyable. It's pretty common for people to like certain aspects of coding but not others. For instance, I personally find writing unit tests boring. So if something came by that made writing them less mundane I would certainly be enticed.
Yeah no. For example microcontrollers, which are how I learned it. There are so absurdly many traps to fall into that even within the first 10 things I did I ran into some obscure detail of the ATmega328p. And the kept happening ever since, each time lots of googling and trial and error. Now with GPT you know how much time this saves? Not just the coding itself, but also these absurd details that only an expert knows. Yes perhaps it does the same error, but after reiterating it usually sees the problem. I can also throw some datasheet for some chip at it and get exactly how to program it with what setting etc. It enables me to do FAR more advanced things. And the new 3o and 4o mini are really much better again. Code often works out of the box now.
I love how people simply downvote me for saying these things. As if me repairing an E-Bike is somehow a bad thing, just because an LLM was what enabled me to actually do it. As is programming for some reason should be an arcane art. As if technology has not always been changing in exactly the same way. With people saying "The way you do it is wrong!" and 20 years later nobody does it the old way. LLM have exploded in a few years and have come extremely far, what do you think they are capable of in 10 years? All those silly little mistakes they still do, gone.
I think we're still in the Win95 plug and play phase. Granted I have been using Claude 3.7 thinking and I will try o3 mini or whatever I have access to via Kagi tomorrow, but today I spent 2.5 hours trying to get AI to vibe code me a bash script that could read a system group member list and write it into a users .k5login file when run. It came up with lots of stuff that looked good but in the end still made an empty file. I even tried to help it with what I guess are oddities of our system but it didn't work. I tried editing it enough to where I felt like I was very close to just writing it myself with documentation hints and ran out of time.
Idk if it's me not prompting right (but if so then I'm going to have to learn a proxy skill rather than just learn the skill which seems silly when it seems so opaque to learn the proxy skill. Like if I need to ask for help to prompt and it's complicated why not just learn the code?) or just that as soon as you hit a non public even slightly customized environment AI just doesn't have the context necessary and there's no easy way to get it to it securely yet or maybe Claude isn't that good (but it was pretty loved for like 6 months for writing code)... Or the hype works in very limited ways and IDK when that'll change.
Save Time where? If you want to code more than snake, you need to have a basic knowledge of coding anyway, and once you know how to code, you will want to code in your own style. And if you just want to make basic programs, just fork someones github project and change a few lines.
You're saying this with your understanding of the field. The people pushing this are either untrained (and thus don't know what's going wrong) or are trying to milk money out of the former.
Not all code needs to be held to the highest standard. Sometimes you really just want a throwaway script.
Vibe coding is basically having no idea about coding and using the AI to make snippets of Code for you
Like if you want to programm snake, you would prompt it:
then it would tell you like:
so you tell it like:
and so forth, then you just paste everything into a txt and ask the AI to debug it for you and hope it works
The people who need vibe coding shouldn’t be using it. And the people who can use it, don’t need it.
Idk about the last bit. I've done some vibe
codingdebugging to fix game mods written in languages and frameworks I don't know and have no interest in learning at the moment. I still look over the output, but given a lack of knowledge, I'd still consider it vibe basedI don't have the bandwidth to know enough about everything I encounter to be passable, and sometimes I just want to make some random thing work with the minimal amount of effort so I can get back to the actual task at hand.
This sounds terrible, lol! Are there any examples that can be pointed to? I'd love to see one of these constructs.
On tilvids.com some dude called picopixl is doing tutorials about this
https://tilvids.com/w/oyddhsnfHUFToBEmpEZpEg
And yeah, its pretty great what it could do, but for someone who (is his own words) can tweak the code so it works, it tool longer to make a Prompt than just coding the Game yourself
Also, Tetris in JS is like Babys first JS project, so even if you really wanted to just get Tetris from somewhere, you could have just git pulled any github project
I've been using chatgpt to help me build a Bubble website. That is, I am doing all the work, I just bounce questions of how to achieve things and structure conditional statements correctly.
Because I'm basically sanity checking everything it says vs copying blindly, it's interesting to see just how much it gets caught in a loop of misinformation. I'm lucky to be one of those learners who just needs an example, even if it's a shitty one, to figure it out myself, so I often find myself using it simply to see how it's NOT done.
But yeah, I know jack shit about coding but I'm sure AI code sucks ass.
Good for you to want to learn a new skill and taking things that LLMs spit out with healthy skepticism. I'm afraid future generations will lack such motivation.
100%. Half the time I see the first couple lines of AI code and I'm like, nah, that's not right. Let's do it myself lol
I'll go against the grain here: I'm not worried. If you actually care about what you do, even vibe coding can teach you something, it could be a starting point. The internet is not going away, and just looking up this or that thing the AI spit out will help you learn what you're working with.
Is it the same as an uni CS course? No of course, but how many of us got our start just tinkering with stuff we didn't understand?
I think you mean "sifting through several pages of worthless search results while looking for something the AI spit out"
The internet is worse and it can still get worse.
Bad search results and Bad documentation specifically are a different problem tho
They're a problem being made worse by AI.
While I agree with you, the unfortunate trend of common folks is to take the easiest path to accomplish their goal.
If that means using a tool they don't understand to achieve a solution instead of being forced to learn from tinkering, I think most people will opt for that route.
They won't take that extra step to comprehend what the AI spits out.
Those kind of people would have behaved the same anyway, copy pasting from the internet or wasting others' time some different way.
I guess we could argue whether giving them AI will act as a multiplier for their damage output or will reduce it because the AI will be savvier than them, but personally I don't see things changing much.
If I wanted to ask for the same things nine times and spend the rest of the day reading code that sort of works, I'll DM my staff engineer.
I run free local models...
The output is still slop, no matter if it's local or oligarch-owned.
LLMs provide as much information as a parrot repeating most heard words.
It's a terrible, terrible "source" of information that will lead to an insane amount of misinformed people.
You are assuming too much.
It's called Fuck_AI, not Fuck_Monopolization_of_AI.
"Sir, we are100% reactionary, no room for nuance in these parts!"
Remember when people said digital artists weren't artists, because they didn't use traditional mediums?
Ya @[email protected] local-free-open gonna eat some billion-$ corp lunch—this is exciting for everyone, almost
Eugene you able to connect the Reality Check complaint screenshot to the thread for me?
Also any issue with one volunteer contributor training a model on public domain code, and sharing with their friend who uses it free locally to generate a custom script? (Context to help can be disabled non-coder who wants an accessibility script.) Considering the contrast between that and the non-coder searching StackOverflow all day, and looking to understand what the volunteer & disabled friend did wrong in one scenario but not the other.
Excuse the sympathetic scenario, just wanna make things easier. Not asking anyone to defend Sam Altman!
Yeah, two completely similar things! The machine that allows ypu to draw without buying expensive art supplies constantly vs the "let's turn shitty ideas into full products for the sake of social media clout" machine.🤡
Right?
As someone who can't code, I spent some time vibe coding a python bot that would take screenshots of a webpage and post them to Discord, but after an hour of creating more errors with each iteration, I gave up. I rather just get someone skilled and pay them for it as opposed to wasting time with something that thinks it's always right
If it's for personal use and hobby stuff, you could try to learn and code it yourself!
Knowing how to make scripts yourself for specific small tasks is a useful skill, and since it's for yourself you don't need to stress about getting too deep into it :)
If you are an absolute beginner I can recommend "Python 4 everybody".
Edit: added a link incase someone is interested.
Appreciate it!
It's very helpful that there are a handful of nonsense phrases that AI has scraped by reading journal articles wrong. They're commonly published in magazine format with a bunch of narrow columns, so there's some gibberish that AI scraped by reading across the page instead of down the columns. I want to make a database of those nonsense phrases so that I can just Ctrl+F in a journal article to see if I should just skip reading it because it's AI garbage.
Vegetative electron microscopy
Well if it helps for y'all to know, if I can't put my measly webpage making skills to decent use in the course of a weeks time, I'll be buying the services of a freelancer because hoooooly shite am I rusty.
(I need to update my basic website and am terribly lazy. Maybe making some extra cash would make a kid somewhere happy.)
((Don't message me here though I don't check messages))
"you'll own nothing and be happy" applies to skills now.
I had to google Vibe Coding. Seems like it's not actual coding and you'd then have to check the code yourself and at that point why bother? Easier to start with something that makes sense then the understand and fix a cluster fuck.
Nah, that would be programming with AI.
In vibe "coding", you ask the AI for the code and just run it. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, you just ask the AI again, or another AI. Ad infinitum.
Check the code yourself? That's like 5th century pleb work, vibe "coders" would be wasting their precious time when they can just ask another AI to do it.
I struggle so much with this. People were already bad at reading emails and following instructions (e.g. ask them to answer 4 questions which I have helpfully listed below, in bold, and they answer the first one and call it a day) but now they just let the a.i. handle it. So instead of not getting answers, I get incorrect and unreviewed answers that just sound like they might be right.
Then of course when I do the work, and it turns out to be completely useless because it was based on bad information, and it needs to be completely redone. That means wasted hours of time and productivity for me with nothing to show for it. All because someone else wanted to save 5 minutes.
1-4. …
😉 no too silly but at least seemed less silly than including “ignore previous instructions…“ in transparent font
It's not possible to make you unskilled if you're skilled. At worst, you'd get rusty. It is possible that your skills might not be in high demand anymore though.
The only thing that would make programmers not be in demand is if "vibe coding" were truly producing a better product than traditional programming. So far, the only ones making that claim are the ones desperately trying to sell "AI" before the bubble bursts. It's true that there are some companies that really want to believe it. But, companies are always desperately hoping for something that can allow them to fire their expensive workers. It's rare that that works out.
It's been aggressively pushed upon new programmers though, a whole generation who might potentially never develop skills to begin with
So was Mountain Dew. That doesn't mean people had to drink it.
You are thinking to short term
This is not about you, but the next generations
In that case it's not talking about "deskilling", it's about "not skilling in the first place".
But, those are completely different things. I was never skilled in riding horses, the way I assume my great grandparents were. I didn't learn how to use a sliderule like my grandfather did. But, I still learned skills that were valuable for the moment in history where I grew up. There's never any guarantee that a baby born today will get to the age of 20 with skills that are useful enough that someone will pay them to use those skills.
As for programming, it isn't some kind of nefarious goal to make sure that tomorrow's children won't know how to do it. It's an immediate short-term goal to try to save money by not having to hire people with specialty skills. If that gamble pays off, then it will be like using a sliderule. Kids won't learn it because it isn't a skill that's in demand anymore. If AI turns out to be a niche thing, rather than a massively transformational technology, then tomorrow's kids will learn to be programmers in whatever languages are hot in 20 years.
No, it’s about deskilling the workforce. Not an individual
That just sounds like a conspiracy theory.
I don't need a conspiracy to motivate companies to make me dependent on whose subscription service?
Did you miss some words here?
Might be, but it’s obvious that they want people to rely on their products and then sell it as a subscription. Like everything else
Who are the various "they"s in that sentence?
OpenAI wants people to rely on their products, sure. But, they're not in a position to "deskill" people. In the grand scheme of things they're just a small vendor. A random software company in Montana isn't going to deliberately deskill their employees to improve OpenAI's bottom line.
Large tech are all in cahoots here, their motivation aligns
Ms, OpenAI, google, apple. All need line to keep going up by making people increasingly reliant on their live services
I’m not necessarily saying that deskilling is the goal, but it certainly helps them.
I learn a lot debugging the code I get from AI, and occasionally, I learn a thing or two.
It took me way too long to get what deskilling means
my best of is: Desk-illing, des-killing, or deskil-ling
it was likely a typo for desk-killing
inevitable syntax ambiguity aside, "deskill-ling" would be a good term for someone who has been de-skilled
Cool, so it wasn't just me. I had to read that word multiple times before I understood it was "de-skill (-ing)". Or, at least I think that's what the word is supposed to mean.
As usual, people assign conspiratorial motives and strategies to behavior that's really an extremely simple straight line between two points: "AI software has a lower apparent cost than hiring another developer, so let's use AI."
I think this so much less convincing than selling AI as a replacement for skilled labor, not as a way to intentionally deskill actual software engineers.
Capitalism already has a way of preventing you from making your own commodities - you sell your time, and the less they pay you for it relative to how much you need to live, the less time you have for yourself to put towards self sufficiency. We don't have many FOSS products, not because nobody has the knowledge or skill to make them, but because nobody has the time to make them.
There are plenty of reasons to hate corporate-owned AI products, we don't need to be hallucinating new ones.
This is the opposite of that 'teach a man to fish and he'll never grow hungry" etc.
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, light him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Really wish they'd be a direct link to the source, not solely a screenshot. Is this the Web?
I use copilot at work. the predictive generation is pretty good i.e you start writing a for loop and it finishes it for you with all the variable names used correctly (most of the time). This also has the added benefit of making you name your variables clearly. the better they are the better the predicitions will be. i wouldnt trust it to do more than that though
Second this. I want it to write the code I already wanted to write anyway - but faster. I don't want it to design (hallucinate) its own code.
This has been happening for quite a while. Do you know how to work a sewing machine? Have you ever repaired your clothes? Oh well, back to Walmart.
Sewing machines don't just output whatever they think you want to wear today lol
Now that would be amazing
yeah, or cooking good point, that's very worrisome
A friend of mine wanted to make an incremental game. I told them "hey that's a pretty good project to learn programming with" but they insisted on using an LLM. Then they proudly showed me what they got so far, it was a decent looking singular html page, but without any game logic whatsoever. Most of the code was just stylesheets - and even those had some questionable things going on lol
Are there seriously scientists who think AI assistants are good enough for the job?
On the other side, if it's "deskilling" to do vibe coding instead of real coding isn't this person saying that the barrier to entry for coding has been lowered?
Either vibe coding is not effective and is therefore not taking away the skill of coding or it is effective enough to replace aspects of coding that you would otherwise need to develop the skill to do.
Like if I'm an engineer or a real estate agent or a business...dude, and I want to use coding in my field but I don't have the time or desire to start learning a whole skill (anywhere from having children to just learning too many skills already) I assume vibe coding is my best friend.
I think it can do some stuff, especially some entry level tedium.
So far I haven't seen a single success on the specific things I've tried it for, even when pretty short, other than exceedingly trivial things like reminding me whether this language has a join as a string method or as an array method of o don't use it that often.
I do see potential for an awkward gap between unskilled and skilled where an entry level person doesn't have as clear a path to getting actually better. In math this generally happens in school, where they keep students from using the most effective tools until they prove they can do without it. So education might have to go a bit further into programming skills rather than delegating quite so much to the professional workplace that may be less inclined.
Im not going to lie, I totally vibe code. Ive been using it to build guis that help speed up repetitive processes. Vibe coding has been helping me learn too code. I think people abuse it for sure. The code still needs to be checked since LLMs are about as trustworthy as Quora.
TBH I always felt the same way with "Blueprint" programming where you plug nodes into nodes.
To this day never once used them.
It's basically the same as programming, just very indirect and slow- but it still requires you to fundamentally understand the concepts of the 'modules' you are using. Vibe coding has borderline random elements.
Shitholes rearing their head thr last 5 6 years made a lot of people forget , America is also a massive shithole
I mean it's only a problem depending on the cost of the tools? Renting 4-5k a year worth of tools to make 150k might be ok to some people. While you are at risk of every increasing prices you could just use the time that it's cheap now to when it gets expensive later to educate yourself.
What's the alternative give some college 250k plus crazy interest rates and 4 years of your life?
Just like with all tools blue collar or white they are worth what you can earn from using them.
You can use local models for free, it's just slower.
Why would you not want to use all the tools available to be as efficient as possible?
I get what your saying but on a personal level I enjoy being able to complete tasks as efficiently and quickly as possible. This is divorced entirely from compensation. Who doesn't?
Some random dudes argument doesn't seem to have much to do with me setting my hourly rates.
That book isn't taken seriously by the majority of the educated people. Your literally arguing against making your own life easier. We were talking about AI tools before you went off on a commie-tangent.
Haha, having to spell out what you thought was obvious. You must be replying to vibe arguing!
There's a lot of dev teams that have to use local because their code is proprietary and they don't want it getting outside the network.
And local is usually less parameters. Reasoning on a local model is very poor.
Vibe coding is stupid
I still think that local models in places without internet are better then offline documentation.
WTF "vibe coding"? I'm not even wasting the electricity to googgle that one.
Ask an LLM to write code for you. Paste it into your IDE, try to run it. Describe the problems to your IDE and ask how to fix them. Lather rinse repeat.
They have automated IDEs now, so no copy-pasting required. They can even automatically push to production without your input.
You can always tell when your on a new bug when you ask about error “exception when calling…” and AI returns your exact implementation of the error back as a solution.
Not really intelligent
I use ai to become a better coder, not to replace me.
I'm glad my expertise is in the humanities 😊
No. Not really. “Computer” also used to refer to a human profession. I believe “programmer” will be exclusively referring to an AI role in a generation or two.
But that will enable more people to become software designers and architects. Like a mathematician, they’ll need to understand how to perform programming tasks manually, but won’t need to do so in day to day work.
Calculators don't hallucinate
They error out all the time with bad input. But the tech has long been perfected on the basics, you’re right about that. But naive to think AI will never get to that point for any tasks.
Yeah definitely not our profit driven models.
AI can do it cheaper... so just have the AI do it. Its that simple, people really don't like it when things are so simple but can't do anything about it. So they just make shit up like this.
He still got a point, but premise is pretty ridiculous.
Looks like they don't understand what "vibe coding" means beyond that it involves AI and therefore has a black hat and is bad. That's what happens when people learn everything from memes.
As I understand it, it was originally meant for "throwaway weekend projects", but then the MBAs got a hold of the term and if you look at job postings nowadays, some companies are really pushing for "AI-first" workers.
The desire obviously isn't just to increase existing dev velocity, but the devalue skills and experience that come from formal education and years of practical learning. Basically to reduce the bargaining power / cost of programmers.
This guy gives a very good rundown on what vibe coding is and how to use it. Basically it's generating code with AI and then going over it like a copy editor. The important point he makes is that the dev should understand and vet everything the code is doing, not expect to type in "Write an inventory tracking system" and be done. It reminds me of people's misconceptions about Object Oriented Programming in the early 90s. Some thought it meant you just create an object called Payroll with a method doPayroll() and some magic happened. edit: And he does think the best use for vibe coding is personal projects, and I agree.
I don't get the concern trolling? If it's so bad, use it, if you don't want to, don't. It seems to me like usual it cannot handle context for long enough to build anything useful, and when you do it becomes extremely over architectured. But others losing their coding skills because they are lazy? I don't know if that's even a problem. Those that want to learn learn. Those who do not, will never code. In the future they can pay for the privilege apparently. I don't see it as a problem. It will only be more useful to actually know how to code. Exponentially. I would never build something lasting on a framework built like this though and would love if we could distinguish generated libraries easily to avoid vulnerabilities and maintainability issues
Sounds like the kind of logic a vibe coder would write 🤔
Ok, but it's not. Did you have some additional arguments or discussion points or is it just hate with you
No hate over here. I don't even disagree with you. I just found it funny that you're so vehemently arguing that vibe coding won't rot your brain, but you tried to express it with a nonsensical "if then" statement.
Edit: To clarify, I do think there's a concerted effort to devalue software engineers. CEOs are pretending that junior engineers can be replaced by LLMs and that senior engineers can get more done in less time with LLMs. I'm deeply skeptical of these claims, and I think they're lying through their teeth in order to drive their stock prices up in the short term, and software engineer salaries down in the medium/long term. So, I don't think LLMs are as competent as they claim. I also don't think they'll rot your brain if you choose to "vibe code".
I don't agree. I have never said anything like that. I think it is a poor learning tool. None of my comment is indicative of being even close to what strawman argument you are hating on
This implies to me that you disagree with the post, which says corporations are deliberately deskilling people with LLMs.
I agree, and am skeptical that LLMs will make people lose their skills.
So, I don't think corporations are de-skilling people.
My point of clarification is that I think they are de-valuing their labor.
What's the strawman argument?
I do not hate you! Why do you keep repeating that?
No, it does not. Concern trolling is when you pretend to be concerned for someone doing something you dislike. They don't care about the vibe coders. They are concern trolling. I pointed out that it is kind of vile that the opposite of ai abuse is ai haters, that vehemently oppose exactly every mention without thinking for themselves. It always becomes more gross than the practice itself and always rimmed with concern trolling and just general hate. Sorry for implying you hate me