What If Trump is serious about annexing Canada?
Thus far, Trump has not raised the possibility of sending actual troops to Ontario. Instead, he seems to believe he can achieve this Canadian Anschluss by simply crushing Canada’s economy and leaving it no choice but to join the US.
But Canada in 2025 is not Austria in 1938. “Canada will never, ever be part of America,” declared newly elected Canadian Prime Minster Mark Carney last week, making the country’s position crystal clear. And, last month, the Canadian Armed Forces announced that after years of declining enrollment, it had seen a surge in enlistments since Trump took office, with about 1,000 more applicants than last year. (Canadian officials couldn’t attribute the new rash of interest to Trump’s threats, but they didn’t rule it out, either.)
Given that Canada will never voluntarily join the US—which it is adamant about—would Trump try to use force to annex it? And would Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth go along with this crazy plan?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/03/what-if-trump-is-serious-about-annexing-canada/Open linkView original on sh.itjust.works
What do you mean "IF" ?? There is no IF He just hasn't figured out how to succeed and get away with it. As soon as he has the answer to that..........
I'd bet a significant enough chunk of the US military is against annexation and would resist orders to invade. Canada and US have basically been brothers in arms for 100+ years, thats a hard culture to throw away for no real threat. The average US infantry is not going to feel like they are fighting for freedom by annexing Canada.
As an American even I don't have that faith in our military to do the right thing.
There's a good chunk of them that are indoctrinated in MAGA philosophies, and they are trained to follow orders. More likely that the pushback would come from leadership, however I certainly would not want to test it.
No different than Canada's military forces. Since Trump was elected over 1000 people have volunteered, and I bet 10% are right wingnuts who'll be shooting at Canadians trying to defend the border.
These are weird as fuck times, no? It boggles my mind to be at odds with our allies. I've spent a lot of time in Canada working through the years and love it as a country. Breaks my heart tbh.
I fucking loathe everyone that enabled this shit to happen.
It has to be tested. This is war. Its a human duty beyond national pride.
In this situation, they would be court marshaled, so they have to follow orders here.
Since Vietnam, supposedly they have a duty to disobey illegal orders
But here’s the fun part, if the laws are rewritten, they are legal.
Not really, no. Plenty of laws are not just wrong but also illegal. This is the biggest issue with the current US administration: a flood of illegal actions but the people who need to say no do not have the moral fortitude or even self-preservation to do so. Hopefully our service men and women are more ethical than our congressmen
Just like they were "fighting for freedom" by invading Iraq, a country that didn't have shit to do with the 9/11 attack or anything else going on at home at the time? Even after it was known they lied about "weapons of mass destruction", people still signed up to be sent over there.
They just need to find the right kind of propaganda to justify going into Canada, and then the meatheads will follow.
Your mistake was forgetting the people of Iraq are brown people.
There is a strong undercurrent of chauvinism among conservative Americans. That America is one of the last bastions of freedom against the degenerate progressive-marxist-globalist movement.
It will still take some twisting of facts and provocation, but probably not as much as you might think.
You're not wrong, i still don't know what a progressive-marxist-globalist movement is, but i guess that doesn't matter as long as people believe it's happening.
They are talking about Jewish people. Anytime they say globalist, it's the jews.
Yes but theyre also insanely, INSANELY racist.
Extermination brown people for sport? Good clean fun.
One young white kid shown bleeding on TV? THE HORROR! THE HORROR!!!
Just check out /r/conservative and you can already see the lines they’re being fed. It’s terrifying honestly
"The Canadians are mutilating children. They're cutting their genitals off, and forcing them to live as the opposite sex. They're brainwashing children into thinking that this is normal, that it's good. A cult of child predators has taken over the government in Ottawa, and they're using their power to mutilate, to brainwash, to destroy children and families. And some of them speak French!"
And that's all it will take to get plenty of soldiers on board. Whether or not the US can hold Canada I don't know. A Canadian friend of mine seems to believe not. But getting violent, hateful, transphobic bigots to sign up? It's that easy. Hell, most of em might not even be service members. Just happy bigoted volunteers, crashing the border and setting off fertilizer bombs attached to department store drones, all for the simple joy of "owning the libs" and "protecting the children"
"The Canadians are mutilating children. They're cutting their genitals off, and forcing them to live as the opposite sex. They're brainwashing children into thinking that this is normal, that it's good. A cult of child predators has taken over the government in in Ottawa, and they're using their power to mutilate, to brainwash, to destroy children and families. And some of them speak French!"
And that's all it will take to get plenty of soldiers on board. Whether or not the US can hold Canada I don't know. A Canadian friend of mine seems to believe not. But getting violent, hateful, transphobic bigots to sign up? It's that easy. Hell, most of em might not even be service members. Just happy bigoted volunteers, crashing the border and setting off fertilizer bombs attached to department store drones, all for the simple joy of "owning the libs" and "protecting the children"
That certainly won't keep Canada safe. There are lots of brown people in Canada. We are a nation of immigrants. (And most of us like it that way)
I mean, so is the U.S., most people do not support what's going on here.
Prepare to defend your way of life then, if necessary with violent resistance. We in Canada certainly are. I still hear an awful lot of passive voice "do not support" and "wish it were not true" and "don't know what to do" comments from down there. Everyone seems awfully reluctant to admit to themselves how badly fucked up this actually is. I think you guys need to accept how serious this is, organize, and get really, really active. Or not. It's your country. I'll be defending mine though, so maybe I'll see you on the battlefield.
Are your gun laws open enough to raise a militia? Legit question, I have no idea what gun laws look like up there.
We’ve been hijacked by a minority of religious death cults with lots of money. I don’t know when you last went to a non denominational church, but most of them in the countryside are bullhorns for Trump and his policies.
Plus you guys have a lot more First Nations up there for America's favorite historical pastime: genociding indigenous peoples.
All of the people there are now classified as Indigenous
Iraq wasn't their neighbor, the average american had rarely met or interacted with an Iraqi IRL or online. The same is not true for Canada. Our cultures and demographics are far more similar. It isn't impossible but the propaganda would have to be quite impressive to shift the overall attitude towards Canadians.
And to add to this, once many service members got to know and bond with Iraqi local nationals, many of them formed friendships that we/they hold dear. Of my service member friends we all have fond memories with them. Of the ones I've met since being in, they all have fond memories too.
You underestimate the American thirst for violence, destruction, and war.
Meh, we have WAY more people interested in staying home and jacking off than those who are blood thirsty for war.
They will fuck with anything and anyone as long as they get that adrenaline and neuron boost.
They don't even need that much propaganda. I remember soldiers pumping "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor" as a war anthem in Iraq. We have enough stupid shit in our "culture" to help justify it anyway. Just look at the pointless lyrics to that stupid fucking song that basically mean nothing yet somehow couldn't be more on the nose if it tried.
Sounds like every idiot asshole that signed up to kill innocent Iraqis and yet they used it as a war anthem for... killing innocent Iraqis. Fuck me I hate living in this stupid ass country.
EDIT: Also check the YouTube comments for that fucking video, plenty of people still love it.
Iraq is a country far far away that most Americans have never visited. Plus Saddam was a real criminal who attacked his own people with chemical weapons. That makes it easy for an average American to believe the false claims.
Canada is right across the border. So many Americans have been there. many have wives and husbands from there. They are a democracy. no mass killing or genocides. Besides Trump is not even accusing them of anything. He just want to take it "for national security"
The two situations are not the same.
No genocides? Ummm.... I guess you could say that Canada has committed the same genocides as the usa.
To support your point since people don't want to do the research themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples
Also let's not underestimate the US hate for French people, and there's enough people who speak French in Canada to "justify" it.
I think they meant no active genocides to justify military action right now. But yes, unfortunately Canada has a disgusting history of genocide and there are many still healing from those atrocities.
Canadians aren't all brown
Just the natives that immigrant Canadians did a genocide on? But I guess they don't count as "Canadian" to most people.
When someone says "Americans," what do you envision?
A bunch of bloodthirsty fucks who have marginalized native peoples so much that Native American women are the most trafficked group in the country? What's the point you're trying to make here?
Right, white people. That's my entire point.
I'd argue they have a constitutional duty to refuse these orders and actually, to march on the President and Congress and put a stop to this. Their duty is FIRST and FOREMOST to the Constitution of the United States.
Yeah, lets see how many of them refuse to invade Canada after the first few dozen get executed in front of everyone else.
The world knows that leadership style already. It's the secret ingredient of the legendary russian army that allowed them to take Ukraine in 5 days.
Still hurt Ukraine pretty bad Id say. Im not saying the US will take over the world, but theyll hurt as many people as they can. Also they still got their last resorts if other countries refuse to be annexed by the greatest country of all time.
My point is that this method barely works for a nation that doesn't appreciate its citizens' lives and primary mode of assault is meat waves of conscripts. In contrast, US military tradition relies a lot more on individual initiative, and creativity that is completely incompatible with the above-mentioned leadership style. It would immediately collapse morale. The military could of course make gains regardless, but it would collapse the US economy, etc.
They've already been firing generals that won't toe the line. They're in the process of ridding the military of trans soldiers. Gay/Lesbian soldiers will probably be next, and I don't doubt there will soon be incentives to rat out any fellow soldiers who are suspected of not being "Loyal Americans".
It would honestly take just a single brave "bodyguard" to end this all. Even if they are killed or jailed, it sure as shit beats having to die in combat while fighting an innocent neighbour because you followed orders from a clown.
On the upside, they'd be a global hero for preventing a needless war. No need to go back in time to drop an orange down a flight of stairs, either.
Agreed, the number of refusals, defections, and just straight up surrendering would cause massive problems for any sort of invasion.
Not to mention the basic fact that there's nothing to "capture" these days.
If they take the government buildings by force, does that change anything?
They've only "taken" Canada if the people start paying taxes to the US government, and that's unlikely to happen in an invasion situation. People would just stop paying their taxes entirely. It's not like troops could go door to door collecting, they may be able to collect it from some specific large businesses, but the rest of the economy immediately goes underground
There's no reasonable enforcement measure for the mass riots that would occur with the number of troops they could afford to deploy to Canada. If they start ordering troops to just gun down every riot, the fight back from the Canadians is going to make Afghanistan look like a cake walk.
If they start shutting down basic functions like electricity or banking to control the population, then the number of guns Canada owns is going to become a huge problem for the troops they have here. The US military would also have to secure the border somehow as some people will try to flee into the US, and some of those people "fleeing" would then turn around and start attacking US assets in the US.
And that's not to mention the almost million Canadians who currently live in the US, are they going to try Japanese internment camps again?
A physical invasion is just completely infeasible. He's going to keep pushing it economically and politically, and it's very likely he's long gone (either out of office or dead) before Canada would cave to those pressures.
The military will follow his orders.
The officers issue orders, and the officers mostly hate Trump. The enlisted people are far more pro-Trump than the people who issue orders. They take an oath to protect the people under their command AND an oath to protect the Constitution, and they take those oaths very seriously. They hate that Trump shits all over those people and shits all over the Constitution.
They will follow orders from Trump when there isn't much at stake or if they align with their mission of protecting the United States and its allies/interests. I think you would see mass resignations on the officer side of the military if they were commanded by Trump to attack Canada. They might not refuse to follow an order, but they might resign or force a reassignment to a post that is not involved with the attack on Canada.
I believe you think too highly of the moral strength of the officer core.
if there’s an officer that refuses a command from President Trump, they will be made an example of immediately court-martial, have their family harassed, Possibly having to retroactively pay back loans or any other beneficial arrangement that they have received as part of the officers station, have all of their benefits rescinded immediately, their names will be publicized. The Maga crew will descend on them and make their lives hell. Within a week no other officer will even think of refusing a command or order from the president.
I work daily sitting next to officers. I think I have a decent idea what they feel about how things are going and what they would do.
Fingers crossed...
Ukraine and Russia have been brothers in arms for a thousand years and I thought the current war was impossible, but here we are.
Plenty of the US military seems to adore Trump whatever he proposes.
Canadian polls are rising too.
Don't discount the effect of propaganda, and of decision makers in Washington drinking some of their own kool-aid.
Do you have a link to the Canadian polls? I'm looking on my own but I'm an analyst by both trade and inclination and I'd like to see that data.
They won't have a source because it isn't true. We overwhelmingly reject any notion of joining the US, and that feeling has only hardened in the last few weeks. Trump — and the lack of anybody stopping him — have destroyed 100 years of friendship. https://angusreid.org/trump-tariffs-canada-retaliation-usa/
That is rapid.
It's what happens when a population has at least a moderate amount of critical thinking skills and awareness of current affairs.
Saw it here, as new as January: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movements_for_the_annexation_of_Canada_to_the_United_States#Opinion_polling
Seems some newer polls may not follow this trend, thankfully: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/large-majority-of-canadians-reject-trumps-annexation-overtures-poll-suggests/
As for general American sentiment on Trump, I don't know if most Americans approve of annexation, but that may not matter if they approve in general: https://www.axios.com/2025/03/16/trump-high-dems-low-new-poll
https://web.archive.org/web/20200723131530/https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/09/06/hussein-link-to-911-lingers-in-many-minds/7cd31079-21d1-42cf-8651-b67e93350fde/
Propaganda is a helluva drug.
To be clear, I support your assertion that people, even Canadians, can be convinced of such malarkey.
90% the things Trump suggests are not something he actually does. The trouble is you're never sure which 10% are what he will do
He floods the zone with so much intentionally that it all looks like noise. Don't get twisted by it all. It's designed to make you numb and assume he is more powerful than he is. He's done that this term and he did it during his first term
Follow his direct actions more than his words. Based on actions, I'd actually be a bit more alarmed for Panama invasion than Canada right now. He directed military to create plans for that. Watch it more closely
Absolutely. “Flood the zone” is Bannon’s strategy, being employed again this term.
The thing is, if you don’t know what they might follow through with, you need to take it all seriously.
Or if you’re one of our allies, you have to take seriously what would directly affect you
Do you not remember when Justin Trudeau met with Trump, and shortly afterward telling people that Trump was serious?
Trump is serious. He's incredibly brash and stupid, rife with tiny dick energy, which makes it dangerous.
I kinda pick one of these land grab schemes as the tipping point. If the current armed forces can look at what's waiting for them when they discharge and still go "yeah fuck Greenland!" then there's no coming back from this.
I'm a gun owner. I'm a solid shot @ 300 yards with a T/C encore 6.5. I'm smart enough to know that Id probably be dead before I even remembered to chamber against any armed forces. The military is what worries me right now very much. Especially if they choose how i would like them to. There's major repercussions to refusing orders (i assume) and I won't be the one to bear those so i can only ask.
This. My standard handgun is laughable compared to the military grade weapons that both the police and the military have.
People have been saying “It’s time to pick up arms and use the second amendment as intended” but in reality, the people who do that will be shot as soon as they raise their weapon. It’s suicide by cop/military.
I think we were simply discussing initial happenings not so much long term.
An AR15 or AK is plenty good enough. And if you have the money you can also get basically whatever night/thermal vision equipment your wallet can handle. At least in the USA still. If your handgun doesn't feel like enough (I agree that it's not) then I suggest you get yourself a long gun (and lots of ammo) before you can't anymore. Silver lining to all this bullshit is guns and ammo are as cheap as they've been in a long time. Unfortunately no one has any money..
Also you're right about it being suicide. But that's only if you're alone. Open carrying during protests has historically actually been pretty effective at keeping the peace. That's also how guns got/get banned though. The Black Panthers and Ronald Reagan for example.
You're assuming that I'm assuming things.... All I stated was that US civilians have access to military grade firearms and accessories and that person (and people in general) should procure one for themself. Also mentioned some stuff about open carrying at protests...
Everything he says, he's serious about. Annexing Canada, Greenland, Panama canal, tariffs, not leaving office (currently floated as running for another term after this one), getting revenge on all his enemies, etc etc. All of it. How much of it he can actually do is however much he isn't stopped from doing.
Would he order use of force? I don't know. But the question isn't whether Hegseth would go along with it--of course he would. The question is how many American troops would follow the orders. IMO many or most would refuse. They (and the US populace) would view using military force against Canada in the same way they would view using military force against American citizens (which I would not be surprised to be ordered at some point). Other than a few hardcore magats, I believe we would never go along with a war against our Canadian cousins.
I fucking hope so. Many of us have relatives on both sides. We share culture, to an extent. It would basically be civil war.
I think we left What If long ago.
True, but I worry that only very left individuals are really talking about this probability. In the big picture, centrists and right wingers don’t believe it will happen. Mother Jones is left, but it’s also a large media company. If we can get more media companies to report on what we think is obvious, it will force the centrists and “I don’t do politics” people to hear it. I hope this article is the start of the discussion in the media, which will take time to happen, unfortunately.
He always is. The only question is if anyone with the power to stop him from doing whatever dumb as fuck thing has entered his diseased mind at the moment will stop him.
Troops in Ontario? They'll never get past the 401. It's impenetrable
We're not stupid. We'll invade from Buffalo.
Reminder that Canada has a population of over 40 million people and the Canada-US border is three times the length of the Eastern Front in WWII, which is by a long shot the largest front of any war in human history.
So length does matter. 😁
Only if there enough girth (population) to back it up.
So that means there could already be US troops here...omfg! omfg
As of Nov 19, 2024 there are 162 US troops in Canada.
https://brilliantmaps.com/us-troops-overseas/
I feel like we should expel them right? Their president is literally threatening annexation
There is no if. He's serious.
Send rump up here to Canada. We'll take care of the problem that muricans cannot
What if? He is definitely serious about his Anschluss.
That's pretty much what every American is thinking.
MAGA path to success
Half of all Canadians support joining the EU, and while I haven't seen a poll for us Europeans I'm sure we'd love to see it.
No. Also, the US tried this in 1812 and it was extremely unpopular with the American public, even moreso than the Vietnam War. And while Trump has a lot of leeway not to act on foreign policy, Congress has considerable power to constrain a President's actions in terms of war.
John Bolton did an interview recently with Kyiv Post, which addresed this specific question of Trump WRT Canada. I think a lot of people would benefit from watching the thing. Bolton worked in Trump's first cabinet, spent a long time watching him operate as President. The two did not part on good terms. Bolton's an internationalist, for context, bit of a hawk, and supports NATO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99JIvjq9t0
I really think that the interview is a worthwhile watch, but I can give a pretty short summary:
"Trump is not part of some sort of grand master scheme run by Russia. He just has very little idea about how government works, or how to accomplish what he wants done, and tends to operate largely in terms of his own personal relationships, which is not really how international affairs actually work. Either Trump thinks of you as friendly to him or not. Trump treats international affairs more-or-less as being how much he likes a given leader personally. He doesn't like Justin Trudeau, so he insults and snipes at Canada. Sadly, it doesn't go a lot deeper than that. The chance of an actual attempt to annex Canada is slim to none."
EDIT: I should note --- Bolton has discussed Trump's positions on Greenland prior to this, to give prior material on the matter --- that Trump actually does want to buy Greenland and that this came up repeatedly in his first administration, that he'd like it to kind of be his legacy for the US. Bolton points out that isn't new to Trump, as prior administrations have made offers to buy it. That isn't a joke. Trump just has no idea how to actually go about trying to buy the thing, and so is busily pissing off both Denmark and Greenland, which pretty much ensures that he can't.
EDIT2: Bolton did point out that he would say that Putin probably considers Trump to be an "easy mark", someone who probably would do a poor job negotiating and who can be manipulated.
I’m pretty sure we’ve all figured out our own personal insurrection style already.
Mine is penises in the dead mouth like the Viet Cong did. And blowing up Americans.
There’s no “what if he’s serious” here, the rest of the world with half a brain saw it already.
Trump is only serious about it because if Canada isn't part of the United States, Vice President Musk can never take over when he is gone.
Yes, it all sucks, but this is just diversion to distract from the actual authoritarian takeover of the us government. Canada is safe from a military action by the US.
These are modern social psychological wars. If he doesn't use military he will use social psychology, they same way they did in USA. The idea is to make you guys annex yourself.
Understand American politics like Mafia life. That is the mentality and style. They will get naive people to become their pressure machine. The people won't even understand what they are doing. Joe Nobody will put pressure on his neighbors for a political mob boss to gain power, but Joe Nobody will think he's an American hero and not understand the politics is nothing but business and he won't be on the receiving end of the Bosses gains. Its similar to how gangs and organized crime use people in the street.
This is how I've seen it work in USA since 2016.
It would not surprise me at all to learn that cheeto had put some pressure on HBC's ownership to start this ball rolling. After all Trump has said he'd use economic pressure to annex Canada. Over 9000 people out of a job almost overnight would fit the bill.
Would they be force to create two teams, one NATO team to defend Canada and one team to attacks Canada?
How to make the US go to civil war with this one weird trick!
I’m pretty sure NATO is primarily a defensive alliance, so US will likely be on their own if they decide to attack Canada.
Yeah but by contract they would also need to provide defence to Canada! And I'm sure they would respect their contract!
I remember last time around, Trump talked in his press conferences about Muslim prayer rugs being found at the Mexican border, which is a thing that did not happen in reality, but was a plot point in "Sicario". I'm guessing this time around, he's basing his foreign policy on "Canadian Bacon".
Nitpick but Mark Carney is not elected. The governing party changed leaders. I will most likely vote Liberal at the next election but it irritates me the current PM is not elected. He needs to call an election yesterday.