Nobody Wants a Nazi Electric Car
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I believe this is the part where we get sued for not buying his cars.
Don't give him any ideas!
I'm sure he already calls his lawyers every day at 3 AM while half blitzed on K to pitch exactly that
I think he would be relieved to get rid of Tesla if someone would buy it. The full self-driving promise was always a matter of interpretation, and the cars they build are more expensive symbols of status than practical products. Tesla can’t compete with global EV manufacturers, that’s a Damocles sword waiting to fall.
SpaceX is where the money is now, and all the electric innovation Tesla did can be used for something else.
There's nothing to interpret. It does not fully drive itself.
Musk is neither a Tesla nor an Edison; he is a Barnum.
@OutlierBlue @TeamAssimilation but it will next year, right? Let's just ignore all those times it's veered into the wrong lane or onto train tracks or whatever, it's fine. Next year, next year, next year.
And Mars in a decade.
Starship was supposed to be doing trips to mars each year by last year. Instead it has sometimes managed to not explode on a suborbital trajectory. But of course regulations are what hold it back...
SpaceX turns the impossible into late
And he wonders why NASA turned him down for bringing those astronauts back...
Not safely anyway.
Fortunately for him, and unfortunately for us, he undoubtedly has full control over whichever department defines the word "safely".
Only usable for federal highways, shit could still be banned by the DMVs or equivalents which would basically be a death knell for it.
Musk is getting $8 million each day from the US government to destroy the US government. He was given $44 billion to destroy Twitter. He's not worried about money.
Like companies getting sued for not advertising on Twitter
That was the joke, yes
This is technically not true. The board keeps Elon Musk on as CEO of Tesla, and they granted him the biggest bonus package ever, while he was already very controversial and clearly was losing his mind, because they thought he would be able to make them money.
You're right, that's not just technically untrue. The board voted with their wallet, by giving him even more money than ever, so he could continue doing what he is doing. The people on the board wouldn't give a shit if only Nazis buy their cars, as long as there's enough of them to keep buying.
Well joke's on them though, because it seems Musk has found a way to tap US citizens directly, so he probably doesn't even care much about Tesla anymore now that it is failing.
I think his worth is mostly attached to Tesla stocks still.
It is and if he loses that wealth I'm pretty sure he is getting kicked to the street. He has no other skills that aren't readily available by folks who aren't utterly unstable drug addled dipshits.
You are 100% correct. They knowingly doubled down on him. They can all ride his coattails straight to hell.
About a week ago I saw a brand new model Y (still had the 90 day temporary plate) sporting one of those "bought before elon..." stickers.
Elon has always been a terrible person, but he was once focused on things that society actually needed, like electrifying transportation to avoid climate collapse.
He seems to have gone sharply downhill into total insanity by taking ketamine while locking himself in a rightwing echo chamber. It’s the perfect storm of dissociating from reality.
Potential ketamine addiction aside, he's just gravitated toward where he sees more money and unfluence for himself. He wanted the prestige of being a leader in tech, so he used his influence and money to build SpaceX. Then he bullied his way into the ownership of Tesla, desperately wanting to appear as a genius to libertarian and liberal minds alike, but he's never been any less of an authoritarian. When Trump rose to power the first time, he sat and watched and along with the rest of the Silicon Valley Moguls, he began to move himself into positions of influence with populist politicians, borrowing the evangelical right's playbooks and throwing himself into the spotlight no matter the reason. He pivoted off his falsified image as some kind of American self-starter into MAGA rhetoric.
Musk doesn't have lofty ideals or any real focus on the betterment of society. I don't think he ever did. He just wanted to be a real life Tony Stark and command the influence that came with it. Now he doesn't need to, because he's got Trump in his back pocket and is mostly untouchable by any normal means.
I'll never stop laughing when Tony Stark treats Musk as a nobody.
Iron Man II, "Yeah. Later. Blown. Off. Bet Musk is still proud of that cameo.
“I think that’s a good idea.”
“You do? Then we’ll make it work.”
Sick burn
He has single handedly ruined the reputation of ketamine... Despite being pretty tolerable at the right dosage (doctors literally give it to children for surgery). Kind of a bummer.
However, long term (or even like medium term) ketamine abuse can completely fuck your bladder up. I hope he starts pissing blood and it feels like passing a kidney stone every time.
That's in addition to what that kind of continuous dissociation will do to the way a person thinks and behaves. And with someone like him, in the position he's in and how he thinks, nothing good comes of it. Dude already thinks everyone else is an NPC.
The problem with Elon is he's been provably an idiot for the past 25 years.
The first thing I ever heard about Musky is that back in 2000-ish he wanted PayPal to take their infra, throw out all the Linux/BSD in use, and move everything to Windows NT.
Anyone who was even remotely IT adjacent in that era can come along and tell you how utterly moronic that idea is.
Anytime I've ever heard him blather on about some stupid shit that doesn't exist except in his delusions or talk about, well, ANYTHING technical or specialized all I was ever able to think of is that he got lucky that Thiel didn't drain all of his blood and leave his corpse in a ditch.
From a musk pov it's 100% logical. Money.
Why? Win2k was quite stable. Stable enough to use it in warships.
Linux/Bsd is not free. When you use it in your company you want pro support. That support comes free with windows enterprise licenses. So the cost difference there is almost non existent. And, MS being M$, they would've sweetened the deal. A lot. Just think of the marketing worth of this deal for MS.
And lastly: Who is cheaper? A good linux admin or a windows guy?
So 90% of the stability at 50% of the cost. That's not a bad deal.
If that was true, Linux would have died a long ago.
probably his upbringing. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/26/elon-musk-peter-thiel-apartheid-south-africa
some may turn out ok, but many people with shitty parents turn out shitty as adults.
Plenty of people have shitty parents and turn out fine. That’s no excuse at all.
Knowing how badly Tesla has managed their supply chain, it's possible they paid for it in 2016.
Dr Dorothy Bishop resigned from the Royal Society back in November 2024 because of Musk. Everybody knew. And being an FRS is a huge, huge deal to a British scientist.
Not as big a deal as virtue signaling to that particular British scientist, naturally, but it’s quite important to the other ones I’m sure.
Of course the fascists invented a dismissive phrase to label anyone objecting against them.
Temporary plates could be someone moving out of state. Are you sure it was the latest model?
They all look the same I would never be able to tell myself
Man, talk about copium.
Damn, your temp plates are 90 days? Where do you live?
Oregon
Ours (Vegas) are only 30 days
Wow. Our DMV didn't get us our plates for for almost 2 months, and from what I've heard, that's faster than usual.
It is mental that a man worth billions in mostly electric car companyv shares is courting people who would run their cars on coal if they could.
A man who has made his billions on being essentially a corporate welfare queen.
Are you criticizing Musk or our government?
Musk, obviously. The man courting people who rage about "welfare queens" is himself the true welfare queen.
Why not both?
He sells a subscription-on-wheels. Any environment benefits are just gravy on top.
Will he really need customers much longer? I mean it seems like he can just have any government agency replace their fleet with his trash in the name of "efficiency".
He tied the financing of his loan to buy Twitter with Tesla shares, if they tank it pressures the Saudis to call in the billions they loaned him for the purchase. He'd survive, but it would embarrass him which would be funny.
Apparently a big part of Tesla's business is selling carbon credits to other automakers... Which relies on them having a certain number of EV sales. If they drop below a threshold, then they can't sell those credits anymore.
Even worse is, he can use the government to sabotage the competition, as Russia and Hungary did.
The thing is, if this follows the Hungary script, Musk is going to become replaceable.
He doesn't command votes like Trump does, but is rich enough to be a threat. Look up Simicska.
so we can kill government workers and important people easier? i think elon Musk funded the failed trump assassinations /j
Pretty soon the only government workers left will be Trumpler's goons. I'm ok with them dying in swastikars.
This was me years go. I knew climate change was real and an imminent threat. I wanted to vote with my wallet for a cleaner future. I also wanted to strike a blow against the National Automotive Dealers Association for their regressive practices that hurt consumers and drive prices for cars higher for everyone. Buying a Tesla did those things. I charge the car on sunlight from my house. I don't have to support the petroleum industry's damage to environment and people around the world. I was proud to be doing something rather than just talking about needs for changes against climate change.
Musk doesn't get any of my money from this car. I don't pay for any of the Tesla monthly services. I'm don't want to be seen driving with a Tesla logo on the car. I'm ashamed that my good intentions funded a fascist.
There is no shame in your ownership of the vehicle based on your intentions; I would humbly assert that anger is a more appropriate reaction to the current leadership of the company that made it. If strangers judge you, that’s on them.
If I had had the means to purchase one 10+ years ago, I would have. Most people who claim they wouldn’t are not being honest with themselves or disapproved of the virtue signaling associated with them at the time.
Oh yea, when Teslas first started appearing, I loved their whole philosophy and really wanted one.
Don't feel ashamed. You did nothing wrong. Life failed you, not the other way around.
It’s crystal clear to me that Tesla played an important role at a key time, and pivoted the industry. The technology to do so had been there for a while but they lacked the will and they needed an innovator to scare them into action. Tesla did that. However, that role is now complete. I am flabbergasted that anyone still values this stock. Even setting aside this recent downturn in sales due to their brand going necrotic, they were already overmatched by the flood of competition coming their way. If major manufacturers don’t eat Tesla’s lunch, Chinese upstarts will. They can’t survive. They won’t survive. Even their supposed software advantage on self-driving has turned out to be a fraud, and the Simpertruck is a high profile failure. I’m glad that the stock hasn’t died yet though, because the rest of the world is still completing the transition to EVs, and the death of Tesla might put a chill on that. But in a few years, yeah, Tesla will blow away on the wind like so much dust.
This is me too. I have two of them bought and paid for and people just don't get it: I went all in on this and you can just sell for 15% of purchase price, I still have mobility needs. More to the point my swasticar still has access to the best charging network on the market and even if I COULD just sell, it's not cut and dry. It's easy to shit on Tesla, but it's still the best offering in the EV market for long range driving. And even if it was not, like fuck me I can't time travel. Most people who flame have no idea what the actual hell they are talking about.
Musk still gets some money if you ever need parts. I had to replace the heater and went to non tesla shop. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to get a used heater so I had to buy a new part.
I came really close back then, had a deposit but canceled due to realizing I had a perfectly good old car and didn't "need" one at the time. Hindsight says I lucked out.
If I did get it, and still had it (I would, I keep cars for 10+ years), I would probably rebadge it as an indicator of my dislike for what the brand has become.
I'd actually love to see a rebadging campaign by dissatisfied owners.
I have BYD badges that should be here any day.
Maybe it’s time to get better at researching companies before major decisions. Do you have a system in place for doing background research on future large purchases?
That shame is no use unless it helps you update your behavior. Shame about a “one-off” decision in the past will continue to nag you until you figure out how to avoid the same mistake in the future.
So how can you avoid realizing ten years out that some big purchase you made supported someone you disagree with? How can you do it in advance?
When you can predict the behavior of a company 10 years out, you pet me know. I'll make you my banker.
Until then, that whole comment is hot garbage.
Don't be a dick. No one's going around investigating the corporate culture of every parent corporation that they buy their product from because they'd be at it all damn day.
Did you even watch The Good Place that's the whole point of the show, you can't be a "good" person based on absolute morals, because it's impossible in the 21st century as the world is too complicated.
A more concise headline is "Nobody wants a Swastikar"
Tesla might have to go on welfare... by having the US government buy thousands upon thousands of Teslas. 🤮
Swasticars for a fascist government. Makes sense.
The popo using cybertrucks would really be the cherry on the techno-feudalist hellscape cake.
Just commit all your crimes in 3cm of snow and you can outrun the cybertruck police with a light jog.
Isn't a few cop-shops using Tesla cars now already?
I worry how the cars hold up to aggressive driving, after seeing how the truck was pwned so badly by whistlinDiesel .
And he actually likes Tesla
Problem is that Trump is on the oil companies' pay rolls. Unfortunately he's subsidizing them instead of Tesla.
https://www.theverge.com/news/617235/the-gsa-is-shutting-down-its-ev-chargers-calling-them-not-mission-critical
https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/22/24349650/trump-ev-tax-credit-tariff-congress
We all know what’s going to happen, Elon just going to get a “government contract”, where he can make it so that teslas will be the main vehicle manufacturer for government.
Fuck. What if Elon is just gonna start making weapons? Didn't he flaunt a flamethrower for his lame company years ago?
Boring*
I hope so. Any one who signs up for trump's military deserves to burst into flames
nobody wants a defective car.
They've probably had more recalls on the cyber truck than they've had sales of the cyber truck
Their cars are pretty good. That is not the problem.
After having seen other manufacturer’s cars at similar prices points, I must say, I disagree.
I'm sure there's a bit of subjectivity and having gotten used to it. But the ones I've tried as replacement for my Model Y so far haven't impressed me.
How do you feel about owning a Nazi car? Any feelings around that? Curious about your feelings or anyone else owning a Tesla right now.
Yeah that's the number one reason I'm looking at other cars right now. So you could say I have some feelings about that.
THEYRE NOT GOOD
I imagine 😅
put 6k miles on my EV9 so far and loving it, much roomier than model Y
Yeah, Kia EV6 is on my list, but I haven't gotten around to test driving it yet. EV9 seems way too big for our needs.
It’s time to paste anti nazi / antifa sticker on it, but it should be driven until it’s death in respect to all the resources that was needed to build it. I mean, it is still a working car after all.
Sure, fair point. 👍
I'd feel like such a target, to be honest. At least if I was living in politically-volatile America right now.
My buddy messed up and spilled a drink in his model X. When pulling up the carpet and panels to clean up he found a bunch of blue painter’s tape where there were supposed to be wiring harnesses and screws. You’ll note that blue painters tape is designed to be temporary, and will not last more than a year or two.
I've heard mixed stuff, like some people saying it's plastic and stuff and only serviceable via Tesla if things go wrong?
Others I know have driven it for years and have been happy except the whole Musk shit which leads to your point. (excluding Cybertruck, I don't know anyone that drives a Cybertruck).
My brother has a model 3. It's a nifty car. The advanced cruise control (not their FSD) is better than the Blue-Cruise in my Ford, and works on more roads. Build quality seems about the same TBH, although my brother may just have a good example. The Tesla charging network is expansive, and would be a major point to the Model 3, but other cars can charge there now, even older models can do it with an adapter.
Ergonomics-wise, I think the Ford is much better. Better controls on the steering wheel, has a "gauge cluster" instead of putting important info on the center display away from the driver's line of sight, and it's easier to open the doors, both from the outside, inside, and in the case of emergencies.
The Ford doesn't randomly slam the brakes on the highway, so I’d call that a plus. Look up “phantom braking”.
This is mostly true. I cannot say if it's more or less plastic than competition. Doesn't seem that different to my non-car-experienced eyes.
I don't think this is true.
Yeah, it's why I added a question mark.
I've had one friend say because it's electronic that only Tesla can fix certain things? Maybe I misunderstood maybe they meant that because it's under warranty where the dealership should be fixing it.
It's not locked in such a way that only Tesla can do it, but it can be hard to find places that will service them. Especially smaller shops just don't want to go through the hassle of figuring it out, and figuring out how to order parts and such, at least where I live.
Basically, it is going to depend on the shops near you and while Tesla doesn't seem to actively prevent it I think they make it enough of a hassle for other shops that it may be true in some places that you can only rely on them for repairs.
Tesla doesn't do a lot of the body work or glass type of things, but if you need a new computer, heat pump or anything like that, it's going to be with Tesla, and especially anything around the battery/power train. Most 3rd party battery replacements fail early due to all the modules not being levelled properly or some fancy battery term for it.
They could (and should) open up a lot of that to 3rd parties, but they keep it in house.
its not the death of the electric car. Its the death of a bad one.
All cars are bad. Combustion or not.
Actually, no. Tesla always had huge QA issues. Panels not fitting on the cyber truck really isn't the first time that stuff just doesn't quite fit on teslas
Nope. Tesla Model 3 Ranked Last In German TUV Reliability Report https://www.carscoops.com/2023/12/tesla-model-3-ranked-last-in-german-tuv-reliability-report/
2-3 years Tesla Model 3 14.7% defect rate
Those numbers are very misleading, as it includes rust on the brakes.
EVs don't use their brakes as often due to regen, and vehicles with one pedal driving where you can come to a complete stop without using the brakes, use it even less.
A large portion of these failures are from some rust appearing from lack of using the brakes. Using the brakes more frequently, or intentional aggressive braking would clear the rust, but it's a fail if it's there when you take it in.
That's not to say there aren't other problems, but it's not as bad as the dead last 14.7% makes it look, and it's not wholly about poor quality as the report implies, as that isn't a quality problem.
Tesla has some of the better one pedal driving and more aggressive regen set ups as well, so the brakes are used less.
Breaks are kinda important.
Sure, but a little rust because they weren't used isn't a problem, comes off when you use them, but is an instant fail. The brakes are not damaged or broken.
All brakes rust when not used. If you drove around in the rain today, then didn't drive for a few days, you'll probably have a little rust on your brakes. You go for a drive and then it's gone.
If you take your car in for a pre-inspection report, and they see some rust on the brakes, they will tell you to drive it around a bit using the brakes a lot before taking it in to be inspected.
it's not an actual problem, and not indicative of a poor quality vehicle.
Edit: To be clear - the drivers should be using the brakes more to clear them so it doesn't build up to excessive amounts which may be a problem at some point, but the test fails them well before it's an actual problem.
Edit: Also, where the model 3 failed a lot outside of the brakes was the front suspension. There are legitimate problems with the front suspension on the older Model 3s. Those are legitimate fails and are a quality issue (there's even a service bulletin for at least one of the problems)
Someone downvoted you. Just wanted to say, that said person is a moron.
Oh it's more than just someone, that post has -3 and the other one is -6.
Talking about Tesla against the narritive/hivemind always results in this, especially when it's truthful things.
There is a Tesla New Buyers delivery checklist you can find online that was written by a group of Tesla enthusiasts. Just a few years ago one of the items on the checklist was “Make sure you can put the car in Park (and that it stays parked)”. (Ref: https://driveteslacanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Tesla-Model-3-Delivery-Checklist.pdf).
I’m not away of any other car where this was something people had to check before delivery — apparently it was a bit of a common problem for a time. That seems absolutely crazy to me, and a major failure of QA as it poses a significant safety hazard.
My buddy messed up and spilled a drink in his model X. When pulling up the carpet and panels to clean up he found a bunch of blue painter’s tape where there were supposed to be wiring harnesses and screws. You’ll note that blue painters tape is designed to be temporary, and will not last more than a year or two.
What?
Yes. Only 25.7 billion dollars. It's practically dead.
Q4 2024 was before all the overt nazi shit.
But I agree that calling it dead is premature.
It's called inflation.
Pretty sure you're focusing on the wrong number out of the two
Well VW is still around. Maybe Teslas will be classic cars in 80 years.
/s: They will all self immolate.
VWs never randomly caught fire. And also they don't look like if Transformers could somehow breed, but had an abortion.
This.
And VWs were survivors, crossing the desert under air cooling and repairable usually with a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. The rear bumper can hold a grown man perched back there manually pulling the throttle if you bust the linkage ... or, so I ... hear.
I worry Teslas wouldn't survive long enough to become classics. They don't seem to be survivors.
/63+71+71super here.
I checked on where Edsel prices have gone. They mostly match inflation. Not a worthwhile investment as a car that people are interested in decades later because it's an infamous failure.
Everyone forgets where the German cars, Henry Ford, etc came from politically.
I was looking into my first EV, and politics just didn’t weigh that much into the decision. Now, the “infotainment as a perpetual service”, that turned me off and away from Tesla. With CarPlay my car dash will never lose service, and will always be free to use with updates from Apple/Google. I can’t imagine why people would ever pay for their infotainment when CarPlay is better or equal in all cases to the alternative.
That said, if Tesla and other brands were equally weighted in my purchase decision, I’d then happily rule Tesla out based on merit.
German cars come from Carl Benz, who built the first automobile in 1885, four years before Hitlers birth.
Not necessarily Carl Benz himself, but it has been litigated that the company had ties to the nazi regime. I’m not arguing that Mercedes was founded on Nazi values, I’m just saying there was a connection and a less than stellar history of bedfellows.
Every German corporation that was around back then had ties to the Nazis, especially anything industrial. As one can see in the US at the moment, corporations swim with the tide. Most of these companies succeeded despite the Nazis, not because of them, with obvious exception being VW.
Also actual Nazis were worse than the “nazis” everyone’s worried about now.
Dotard Musk comes from a South African Afrikaner background. Those same people literally ran a white supremist government and jailed Nelson Mandela for decades.
and hopefully it stays that way.
Are either Ford or Mercedes currently run by Nazis? Can the average person on the street name the CEO of either of them?
The problem with Tesla is that everyone hates the guy who has made himself the face of the company at a time when there are plenty of alternatives.
The issue is that the alternatives generally aren’t that much better in a vacuum. Infotainment vs Tesla infotainment (removing the CarPlay merits): It’s not even close. Tesla is like 10-15 years ahead of everything else on the US market in their price range. Car manufacturers famously lock in their tech and designs something like 3 years before public release.
Will there be meaningful software updates for your Kia EV6 in 2028? Absolutely not, no way.
Do you want to tow anything more than 1000Kg? Good luck outside of Tesla.
NACS? Not one single other car available yet.
Do you want a dashcam? Rivian is the only other brand, IIRC.
I’m not apologizing for Tesla, but it’s really painful how awful all other cars are compared to the competition.
15 years ahead on record recalls and NTSA crash test no- call-no-shows.
If Rivian had a more affordable option they’d be eating Teslas lunch right now. R2 coming next year.
Issue with waiting for the R2/3 is that the tax credits will probably be gone by then.
Rivian don't sell vehicles outside the US though so they're always going to be on the back burner internationally. Plus of course, most of the world don't want a pick up truck style vehicle in any case.
Do you really not know about R2 and R3??
What an annoying position to be in, needing software updates for your fucking car. Then what, you'll have to replace it after three years because it won't get any new security patches anymore?
I just got a new electric Kia and I don't give the slightest shit about updates. In fact I would prefer no updates for fear it would make the great car I have worse. And no way in hell will I ever give Dotard Musk any of my money,
Tesla was ahead 10-15 years, sure. But they mostly lost that lead. Yes, their software is great, but at the same time Tesla doesn't seem to be able to do basic car features right. For instance, it doesn't have a rain sensor and relies on the front facing camera to detect rain. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't work as well as a sensor. It's even worse when it detects rain, while it is completely dry. But you cannot turn the wipers off, because then you won't be able to use cruise control anymore. Cruise control, which by the way (non FSD) is shit in comparison to the competition.
The tablet might be a couple years ahead of the competition. The value they bring in bang for buck with a great feature package is also greatly competitive. But the car is behind when it comes to just normal car things. I have buttons on my steering wheel as indicators for fuck sake, a problem we already fixed when we were still prosecuting Nazis.
I'm happy with my stereo being a glorified Bluetooth speaker
Don't have a working stereo in my 22-yo truck or 23-yo car. Bluetooth speaker it is!
(I don't generally listen to anything driving. I like to chill and think about life. Which ain't always the wise move.)
Hell yeah. I prob have a 1/3 split between music, podcasts and silence. Silence do be a double edged sword
That is an insane take to me. Elon Musk is Nazi scum and the Tesla has issues, but the infotainment system is the best you can get in any car and the main reason I haven't been able to get rid of it, ignoring the fact that literally every other non Chinese EV in the same price range in my country is objectively worse specced.
Having an extremely responsive map with satellite imagery that boots up instantly is already better than every other car out there, but it also has built-in dashcam and livestream functionality for all 4 cameras, which is a bitch to install in other cars, and it's already saved me a bunch of times.
Android Auto just plain sucks ass, disconnects constantly and a lot of newer models still require a wired connection.
Also worth noting you're not paying for the infotainment, you're paying for the cellular connection, with whatever local cellular company they are working with. In my case it's cheaper than getting a data plan directly from the cellular company and my old Hyundai didn't even have that option in my country.
And people say lemmy doesn't have ads.
At least it still has the same low effort comments as Reddit.
I would like a Chinese EV, but the capitalists are enforcing protectionism.
I would too, but you have to understand why the USA is blocking these cars from coming in. The cost of these cheap EVs are not based off of supply and demand. Its not even this cheap because of effectiveness or efficiencies. Its from the CCP subsidies. The CCP wants to dump on the competition in efforts to kill off anyone making a car, then start jacking up the price after they have market share.
My dude the US subsidizes the shit out of its electric car industry. When someone brings up "supply and demand" and just tries to pretend that the economy is exactly what they learned in their econ101 class.
They are doing the tarrifs on Chinese EVS because (1) they can't compete on price and (2) the Chinese EVS are just a superior product.
You're right on China though. They are just doing exactly what the US has done for decades. It's just that the US doesn't like having to actually compete with another country. So instead of actually making better and cheaper cars they instead just decide to tell the American people "nah, looks like you're just being a shit Tesla"
The US loves to say "free market" but notice how they don't allow a free market to force their industry to actually innovate and compete.
China is not "cheating" by subsidizing it's industry. That's literally just standard shit every government does. Thats just an excuse. America is subsidizing it's EVs too. They just have worse EVs.
Trump is all about removing regulations and stated "for every new regulation, 10 must be revoked." During his first term it was 2. He is moving the market that way, and boy oh boy is it going to suck for the consumer and small companies that want to compete.
So much to unpack here but I'll do my best to address everything you're saying here.
1- Chinese cars can't compete in price: yes because China has been dumping subsidies into the market, inflating the supply. China dumped 231 billion dollars into EVs from 2009 to 2023. Over 500 electric car brands were created due to this injection. There is only are less than 100 left after China stopped the subsidies.
2- The Chinese EV are a superior product: which one of the 500 car companies are you referring to? outside ofthe top China brands (Geely, BYD), they all sorta suck.
China is doing is state sponsored "dumping". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) which artificially reduces prices to gain market share and has a negative effect on the industry. Every country in the world, not just the US, has an anti dumping policy, including China.
While we the consumer would love to spend pennies on the dollar for an electric cars, the effect is only temporary and when we start losing car companies due to this practice, prices always, ALWAYS, are higher after we lose competition.
Anti dumping policies is not hindering free market. The second you inject 231 billion dollars of government subsidies into an industry, is the second it no longer becomes a free market.
Yes, the USA has also has given subsidies. In total about 30 billion dollars. A drop in the bucket on the 231 billion the CCP has injected.
Would love to know where you're getting your numbers from for the US and China. I surely hope it's not just the AI response on top of Google. But that's what it seems like. You'd literally have to write a whole research paper to get a good comparison because these are heavily consumer based subsidies within each country and China just has a much larger market it sells to heavily inflating the credit because of population. Also, you didn't list a date range for your 30 Billion number.
You also have to account for state level subsidies and tax credits in the US in addition to Federal programs, grants, loans, etc. Would love to read a paper on this if you have a source.
But, even using your numbers 30 Billion (something I don't think is accounting for State or EV infrastructure spending; but again, I'd like to see a source) is not a "drop in the bucket". It's 13% of what you listed for China over 14 years. Interestingly enough China also outselling the US in terms of market share. Comparing the subsidies of a country that owns the plurality of the market to one that does not is silly. Subsidies are going to increase WITH sales. China is selling significantly more cars. You'd have to compare the subsidies and adjust them based on units sold.
Doing some "Google AI response results" myself China is selling about 8x more EVs than the US (in 2023).
Hmmm. 8x30 = 240 billion. Weird. Again, I'm not taking my numbers seriously but I'm not taking your numbers seriously either because you didn't sight a source, adjust for units sold, or give a date range for your US numbers.
But you're just not comparing this correctly. You HAVE to adjust for units sold. Which you are not.
So capitalism.
We don't want that evil capitalism here in the US. No sir.
State capitalism, but yes.
Yes, we get to prioritize USA industries vs China's. I'm down for that.
"Our chineze vs their chinese."
I'm also pretty sure their security / safety standards are pure ass. I barely trust our automakers, I sure as shit don't trust the fucking CCP
I live in Taiwan and we call those China made cars tofu cars. Their domestic cars are terrible. So many of them are going out of business because the the CCP lowered down the subsidies.
I won't be caught dead in one.
That's only half the truth though. The main reason why they're so cheap is because they manufacture everything in the supply chain themselves. Everything. They have their own mines for their resources, they make their own batteries (which they've been doing for ages), they make their own electronics, they make their own software etc. They also have a completely different mindset. For them they are rolling electrical devices with some software. They don't need the knowhow of the traditional car manufacturers. And then they bought the Audi designer along with his entire team to make the cars look good.
Edit: I'm talking about BYD. The rest is pretty much irrelevant.
Yes, there are efficiencies since all the tech is pretty close, but that pales in comparison to the sheer dollars injected into the industries. 231 billion dollars. Compare that to the 2nd closest investment into a car manufacturer which is the USA at 30 billion.
Each one of these new 500+ car manufacturers produced cars at a loss. Not because efficiencies. Because of subsidies. In some cases, not even sold at all. https://youtu.be/vplPmxVRcnk
Here in Taiwan, we get unfiltered China news.
You can fellate Winnie the Pooh on your own time. It comes with its own whole set of problems.
Edit: Come at me tankies. You're morons for giving a single dollar to the CCP.
Nothing quite says "American Capitalist bootlicker" more than proudly paying more for an inferior product while complaining that it's the Communists fault.
I mean he got tens of billions of dollars in increased wealth so I dunno if I'd say that.
8% drop in car sales isn't great but I think the article is overselling the idea that the company is straight up dying. (Sadly) Most people just don't make a connection between how they spend their money and the politics of the people they prop up.
Tesla is definitely dying unless they can turn this around quickly.
Surplus capacity is expensive, and I bet they are already operating at a loss. And turning around a bad reputation is hard.
Their models are dated, the cheap Tesla is cancelled, the Cybertruck is a catastrophic fiasco, and the model Y has already lost a lot of popularity, so even a new mode already said to be mostly a facelift, is unlikely to make a huge difference.
The drop in sales in January in EU is 50%, and they are losing market share in China and USA too. So I think the actual drop is higher now than 8%.
Note that for Nissan a 5% drop last year was called catastrophic!! And their survival is also questioned, and they are way bigger than Tesla.
To your list add that new Tesla sales are also competing against an increasing number of Tesla owners who now want to divest themselves of the brand.
More used Teslas on the market will only push down the market rates and thus profits of new Teslas even further.
Good point, the article states a Tesla that only had 10k miles on it, had dropped in value by about 40%!!
With such low mileage cars on the used market so cheap, Tesla will absolutely be competing against their own used cars.
Plus of course people are more likely to be trying to buy used cars (of any brand) or not buying any cars at all given the current economic situation. Which of course is also elon's fault, at least partly.
It’s close to 50% drop in Europe. The EU has 500 million people. They may not know it yet but Tesla is on hospice care.
Plus of course if the US ever does impose import fees on Europe the obvious response would be to impose import fees on Tesla's. It's a luxury item so the general public probably won't hugely care, and it will hit the only person really to blame for all of this without unnecessarily targeting other US businesses. You know, how import fees are supposed to be used
They're definitely dying in Europe. The YoY sale numbers are horrific.
One of the things that has continuously confounded me about Musk's veneration by the modern American fascist is that one of the main accomplishments they hail him as a genius for are "his" advancements in electric cars.
Which are necessitated by Global Warming.
Which they do not believe in.
Nazism has no place.
And the board is probably afraid to fire him now too.
Yet another asshole businessman with a business plan to fuck over the good name of Tesla.
I just want to stop seeing a storm of them when I am on a road. I can’t seem to drive anywhere without seeing approximately 10 within a single hour.
Ironically, the EV’s suck and are for commies crowd are now lauding Tesla as the best vehicle on the market
Musk aside, Tesla cars have always been pretty shoddy
It's not ironic necessarily. It's more the morons that hated EVs and Musk hated them because Trump did. Now that Trump loves them, they love them.
They're just weak-minded easily manipulated sheep who hurt when they have to think for themselves and they'd rather be told what to think.
Dunno, if it'll blast marches ...
Well not nobody. Turns out there are some Nazis. /s
Looking through the comments, this is a troll account
Then explain why I see them everywhere. People are just way too late on finding out about Elons true colors
That's @[email protected], for those who can follow Mastodon handles. Worth following!
Bs. The Chinese in Richmond BC don’t give a af about whiny white leftist problems.
I've seen an increase in new Teslas where I live, not a decrease.
Sounds like a creepy place
You're not wrong, it's infuriating to see more of them
Yeah but that's the logic that the climate change denies also used.
"Global warming can't be real, as it snowed yesterday"
Fair point, I live in a red county so more is kind of expected I suppose
I guarantee that in a few months, mark my words, he will not be in DOGE anymore, he will pivot to the Left, and SHE will come out as trans.
I would almost willingly put money on this.
Edit: Not sure why I"m being downvoted on this, I'm not saying "Elon's bad so he must secretly be a leftist."
I'm saying he's transphobic in a "Methinks the Lady doeth protest too much way", and that he has no loyalty to anyone or anything outside of what he thinks will get him attention. So if he is rejected by the Right, he'll try to say he's "Seen the light" and go to the Left.
Why would he do that? He has the closest thing to absolute power that existed since the independance of the US, without even getting elected and he would loose everything : the non-Nazis won't forget what he did, and the Nazis won't accept him.
Let me be more specific.
I think he will be kicked out of DOGE because of all the controversy and Trump's own distaste for him. That between this and firing so many people who voted for Trump, Elon will become Persona Non Grata to the Right, pivot to the Left searching for some group willing to give him attention....
And in doing so, he will finally come out as trans... and be mercilessly mocked by the Right over it.
He will never find a group that accepts him (well her at this point), because we'll still remember all the horrible things she did.
And sort of find herself in the same kind of limbo Caitlyn Jenner is in where Nazis hate her because she's trans, and Non-Nazis hate her because she's transphobic.
This is how I'm convinced Elon's story will end. Just how I feel like this is going down.
I can see what you're saying, but at this point Elon is the most powerful person in the US, and certainly more powerful than any politician (even Trump).
I don't think everyone realizes how unbelievably, dangerously rich Elon is. The dude is a moron, but he has enough money to buy out all of our politicians many many times over.
Sadly I didn't take that into account...
Elon might have the world's most kickable-dick, but his money spends just like anyone else's. Only difference is he has a lot more of it, it's his googolplex to our zilch and that's not good. How'd he even get that rich, I know he had an Emerald Mine, but fuck was it a Chaos Emerald mine or some shit?
Trump hired him in the first place so I don't think he's going to get kicked out because of Trump's distaste. Trump doesn't care about people he only cares about himself and Elon is useful to him.
If he gets kicked out it'll be because he became a risk to Trump probably because he tried to take Trump on.
Trump has demenetia and is prone to undoing things he did, but blaming the initial thing he did that he now regrets on an outside party.
Are we writing fan fiction for the government now?
I like how it follows the tradition of all fan fiction in being totally inconsistent with established personality traits.
Confusing title. How can a car be a Nazi?
Your just gonna piss your ignorance all over this thread, like an old incontinent weiner dog, aintcha?
I'm voicing my opinion about titles like that. They are posted here to invoke a reaction. 99% of commenters here haven't read the article. The title is the whole reason why it's posted.
You're either deliberately obtuse, or simple reading comprehension is beyond you. Either way, waste of time explaining anything.
Tesla is a nazi-owned company.
That's why you're defending them.
Again
You Americans need to stop using strong words you have no idea about. You can call him far-right douchebag.
elon and all his simps are nazis.
I will continue calling him a nazi because that's all he is. If it embarrasses you to have elon self-identify as a nazi by saluting like a nazi twice, good.
All you're doing here is gatekeeping nazism. Gatekeeping your party.
If you took a handgun from a Nazi, wouldn't that be a Nazi handgun?
I didn't think they are saying the car chose to be a Nazi
The same way you have a nazi uniform.
The audacity calling me a Nazi. You don't know anything about me. Rekativising the atrocities Hitler has done by using Nazism as a common term. You don't know anything.
"you" was rhetorical. You do understand that someone can wear a Nazi uniform? That is no different than driving a nazi car.
Kicked dog hollers.
In the same sense that the kubelwagen was a nazi car. Now that I think about it, the kubelwagen kinda has similar lines to the cybertruck.
Lolwut?
It's called title case, dumbass.
It's literally used anywhere that uses a latin derived alphabet... and a ton of Cyrillic cultures use it....
Not sure about other alphabets.
We all saw the nazi salute, then we saw him do it a second time just to drive the point home.
Well, time to get your eyes checked and shop for new glasses.
Hey nice try gaslighting but anyone with eyeballs can see the fucking nazi salute, fuck all the way off
I'm genuinely so excited to have actually encountered one in the wild. That is, someone that is trying to claim that Elon didn't sieg heil multiple times. Fascinating, they said people would but I just didn't believe them
I've seen too many of that ilk. Then again, I peruse the YouTube comments, so it's pretty my own fault.
His standard for being labeled a Nazi is one Hitler fails prior to 1939. They might as well have a sign with bold print proclaiming, "I'm not to be taken seriously."
He very clearly salutes, turns around, and salutes again. Twice in a row, enthusiastically and perfectly executed.
If you haven't seen this, you didn't watch the inauguration.
Then you probably shouldn't waste so much of other people's time by claiming something didn't happen if you haven't even bothered to fucking check.
If that was a wave, I'm the fucking Pope!
try "waving" like that in Germany and see where that gets you
Wave like that at work in front of HR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joV-9FFoA3Q
Do you call this full blown nazi salute a wave? The only relation to a wave, is the 2008 German movie Die Welle, for obvious reasons.
Since when doing a Nazi-salute makes you not-a-nazi?
When you're a billionaire. Then it turns out, you're just giving your heart to the crowd. And then, when you fund and speak at Nazi party rallies overseas, you're just fighting "woke" or something. And when you agree that "Jews are doing ethnic replacement" on Twitter, you just have to take pictures at a concentration camp and you're a "friend of Israel"
But I do enjoy when people get fired because they think they can do it too
People really hate nazis my guy so even doing shit as a joke pisses people off. Its not cute its fuckin fighting words
I'd say I hate nazis about 3000% more than republicans hate immigrants
You're kidding, right? With your username being what it is, one might be tempted to think that you would know better than that...
Some people really like Section 31 and the Mirror Universe. And Ferenginar before it went all woke.
You won't but you should watch this https://youtu.be/xDyPSKLy5E4?si=5gDaBVeGsFFwIBRz
Its not intolerance to refuse to support them. Being far right makes you a liar and bigot at the very least. I haven't seen one example of a decent human being who considers themselves far right.
Have you ever stopped to think about why? Probably not otherwise you wouldn't be here acting like a butt hurt right-winger
when did they bring that in?
For the Americans that don't know the word Nazism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism?wprov=sfla1
Although he has right-wing ideologies, there is no evidence of Elon Musk being a Nazi. A car can't be a Nazi either...
I'm tired of all of the populism and strong headlines on Lemmy. Actual factual journalism gets burried deep in the feed.
"Ignore your lying eyes."
Fuckin' Nazi apologists.
No need to get personal. I'm open for a civilized discussion but not this.
Wwwaaahhh! Defending Nazis gets people to say mean things to me!
E: got dam autocorrupt
You're not open to calling a Nazi a Nazi. Fuck you.
You don't like being called a nazi apologist, don't make excuses for nazis.
yeah, no evidence other than spreading antisemitism on x and litterær fucking heiling /s
well, his family, too. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/26/elon-musk-peter-thiel-apartheid-south-africa
I legitimately didn't know about that tweet. Can you share a source? I find a lot of articles but none of them quoting the content in full.
Fuck off with this sea-lioning bullshit. The Nazi salute and AFD promotion were international news.
Seriously, what are you getting out of this? It's like arguing the sky isn't blue.
Its to move the Overton window. It is clear the Elon gave a "Roman" Nazi salute. There are forces trying to control the narrative. Gaslight. Obstruct. Project.
Deny. Defend. Depose.
I don't think I could do a better Nazi salute on purpose.
there's 0% chance he didn't practice in front of the mirror like a fucking dork
Man, you can really see Adolf saying "Sieg Heil!" Scary stuff.
Not to mention the guy on the left.
I guess you could say the same about Hitler, since he didn't personally kill any jews. If killing jews isn't a requirement then there is definetly evidence that musk is a neo-nazi
Seriously?
This is exactly what this polarizing title intended to do. Attract people like you who relativise the atrocities Hitler has done. Populism is a bitch and you're falling right for it.
Just give me an informative article with normal title and stop filling Lemmy with all of this clickbaity populistic shit that helps nobody. I'm tired of it and tired of discussing it too.
Relatively speaking, Hitler was one of the worst people to ever live! And the richest man alive today idolizes him.
Imagine if Mansa Musa and Hitler teamed up! The world needs to not experience that!
History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. Musk isn't a member of the Nazi party. He does hold a lot of important views in common with them, however. He also associates with people who fit most of the rest.
What percentage do you think is needed before calling someone a Nazi?
Saluting like a nazi is sufficient as far as I'm concerned.
I would personally add a small amount of slack for bad taste satire (we were all young idiots at some point), but basically agree. Any signs of the other points, and that slack is gone, however.
I was mostly curious if the OP was acting in bad faith, or a useful idiot that could be reasoned with.
nazis didn't exist, they were all confused autists making awkward gestures
I disagree. He's done enough that calling him a Nazi feels accurate to me. Or at least enough of a Nazi sympathizer that I totally support not doing business with him.
What I get frustrated by is justifying hurting the people that have his cars. Having a Tesla does not make one a Nazi sympathizer. You could maybe make the case that buying one today might, but even then I don't think it's justified attacking people for having a car.
If you want to be an extremist about it, hurt the dealerships and the company. Don't go after people who are almost certainly not that different from you. The people keying cars just want to feel smugly superior to someone and feel morally justified for being an asshole, they don't want to make anything better for anyone. If that's how you act, you're just a fascist with a slightly different ideology.
Oh fuck off, bootlicker.
Thanks for the civilized discussion. Have a nice day to you too.
Civility is what is demanded of the oppressed after the oppressors robbed, assaulted and threatened. No more. ✊