I actually saw a pretty good YouTube recently about what happened to OS/2. In short IBM treated the OS as an afterthought, and didn't really invest in marketing. The OS/2 team did a spectacular job with what they were given, but the corporate umbrella didn't really care, so the market all went the win95 route instead.
I tried OS/2 v3 in the 90's and it was actually pretty decent.
I had it as a secondary system and it certainly was quite good.
Its compatibility with dos and windows was also quite good. And technically, it was way beyond what Microsoft had. It should have dominated the market.
While Signal's home base is the US, they are a non profit org that doesn't operate in the same way as for-profit corporations. Also, Signal collects basically zero data so there's no incentive to sell out, and who would want to buy them anyway when they have no data and the server and client are open source.
Matrix is great, but I wouldn't compare it to Signal. I use both for very different purposes.
Agree with the sentiment against signal. However, Matrix is terrible for anyone who doesn't want to bother with reading up on several hours of information just to use a text messenger. I will start reccomanding Matrix the moment someone actually manages to produce a feature complete client with usable UI/UX.
+1 This is why I moved my family over to Signal, despite it being an American company.
Another benefit is that it’s gaining some serious traction with a lot of people now moving to Signal. Makes it easier for family members to move as well.
XMPP allows unencrypted messages and leaks metadata - Signal does neither.
Signal does need (yes, need) a phone number, and most people only have one so that is identifiable info.
Signal is basically a privacy enhanced text/SMS/phone replacement. I can give my phone to someone in person and they can immediately start "texting" me on Signal - this is a feature (as well as a con to some people).
This puts it at mostly the same level as some competitors, including WhatsApp which is often advised against.
People advise against Whatsapp because while it uses Signal to encrypt message contents, they take no effort to minimize the collection of metadata - Signal's been compelled by court to present all data it has on its users various times and the only info they have is the day/time you signed up for their services and the last day (not time) one of your clients pinged their servers - Source: https://signal.org/bigbrother/
I have yet to find any other free service that collects this little information and works just as well as a normal non-encrypted messenger. Even Signals sticker packs are end-to-end encrypted - Source: https://signal.org/blog/make-privacy-stick/
What metadata does XMPP leak?
AFAIK only when a message was sent, roughly (in large increments) how large the message was, the server of the sender knows from who to which server, the server of the recipient knows from which server to who.
I find it strange that Signal somehow doesn't know when a message was sent, and from who to who; how would they ever make this possible?
Also, you say you have yet to find any other free service that collects as little data... How about most e-mail providers?
Not Google and Microsoft of course, but most e-mail providers only need a name which can be made up as well.
You hm also host your own email server, then you are in control.
All of this is true for XMPP and Matrix, as well.
Sender's Full Jabber ID (JID): This is typically in the format [email protected]/resource. The [email protected] part identifies the user and their home server, and the /resource identifies the specific client device they are using (e.g., [email protected]/mobile or [email protected]/laptop).
Recipient's Full Jabber ID (JID): Similar to the sender's, this specifies who the message is intended for, including their user, home server, and often the specific resource.
Sender's Server: The domain of the sender's JID reveals which XMPP server the sender is connected to.
Recipient's Server: The domain of the recipient's JID reveals which XMPP server the message is being routed to.
Timestamp of Message Transmission: Servers record when a message was sent, which can be used to infer activity patterns.
Approximate Message Size: While the exact content is encrypted, the size of the encrypted stanza can still be observed. This can sometimes give clues about the type of content (e.g., a small text message - versus a larger file transfer).
Message Type (e.g., chat, group chat, presence, IQ): XMPP uses different stanza types for various purposes. Even with E2EE, the type of stanza (e.g., a "message" stanza vs. a "presence" stanza) is visible.
Participation in Group Chats: If a user is part of a Multi-User Chat (MUC), the MUC service and the user's participation in it are known to the MUC server and potentially other participants' servers.
Presence Information: XMPP inherently broadcasts presence (online/offline status, "away" messages, etc.) to contacts. This reveals when a user is active.
Contact List (Roster) Information: While not "leaked" during every message, the XMPP server hosts and manages the user's contact list, meaning the server knows who a user is communicating with.
Device Information (Resource): As mentioned, the /resource part of the JID can reveal the type of client or device being used.
I find it strange that Signal somehow doesn’t know when a message was sent
Signal uses Sealed Sender (wired.com). Imagine if letters you sent didn't require a "from" field - or it was inside the envelope and impossible for anyone to see it. The post office would only know who its going to and only the recipient can decrypt it (open the letter) to see who sent it. Now, you could say, well they have your IP and can correlate it to the account, but the easy way around this is to either use a VPN or Signal proxy (support.signal.org) if you're that paranoid.
How about most e-mail providers? Not Google and Microsoft of course, but most e-mail providers only need a name which can be made up as well
Most email providers suffer similar metadata leaks as XMPP because:
Email was created in the 70's and we've learned a lot since then about privacy and security.
XMPP works off a similar concept where you inherently pass data along to another server.
You could host your own email, XMPP, or Matrix server - that's definitely a win for privacy. But as soon as you interact with someone outside your ecosystem (server), metadata leakage is an issue again. It's why making end-to-end encrypted email is a hard problem to solve. It's not that it can't be secure, its that it has to work with those that aren't because that's the expectation.
... host your own email server, then you are in control
Until you interact with others who aren't using encryption or have it misconfigured.
FWIW Matrix and XMPP are also decentralised, much like e-mail is, which is why I recommended it.
I'm immediately skeptic about SimpleX's premise of having no user IDs; they'll likely need some unique field for each user, this might as well be a UUID or something like that... So what's the benefit?
I think the other person here explained the thing about user ids. Matrix and xmpp are good too, they're just different.
Simplex is more of a messenger, while xmpp/matrix are more of discord alternatives.
Also simplex works with nodes. I can host a simplex server and it will be added to the network. In matrix/xmpp if I host a server it will be a new instance, like in lemmy (if I get it right). Simplex's approach is like tor's approach, each server added contributes to the whole network (they arent a separate instance).
If you check their page they have some bery good features, to me it seems like its signal, done (somewhat) right. Signal doesnt even have a proper way to migrate accounts across devices.. not to mention the phone number requirement which might scare people who aren't gonna waste time hearing my explanation as to why it's not an issue or the fact that until recently signal would notify everyone in your contacts who had a signal account that you made an account, bruh
There's also this comment here that throws some shade to matrix, havent looked much into that tho.
For FF and Chromium to, their source is open so if there ever was a need to make it fully European, it would be doable. Or did I miss something? (novice question, here)
in addition to the other reply, the teams working on browsers are massive. over 500 developers for each, and that's only the core teams without external contributors. you don't just put together a team like that in an afternoon.
The problem is that Librewolf, ungoogled chromium etc are soft forks, meaning they are completely dependent on the original projects. If for example Trump made a law banning releasing software as open source because that’s communism, Librewolf would likely cease to exist
Because it's not using https. While https is certainly preferable, as long as you're just reading info of a website (not making an account, entering data) http is pretty much fine.
Modern Browsers just don't like it (which is also understandable, because most users probably don't care about the nuances of when it is or isn't a problem).
"While some of the findings presented in the paper may be interesting from a theoretical standpoint, none of them ever had any considerable real-world impact. Most assume extensive and unrealistic prerequisites that would have far greater consequences than the respective finding itself." - Threema.
Paid unfortunately also means that it's way harder to convince anyone to use it, even though the price seems very low for what you get. The other problem that brings is that I don't know what I'm buying exactly until I bought it.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I’ve bought it for three people I know, and I’ve had three people buy it themselves.
I’ve only suggested it to people close to me who use Android because my main phone is iOS and texting between the two is a way worse experience than Threema. I also have Signal, but no one has asked me to use that. I also find it annoying that Signal needs my phone number. I hear they’re working on changing that.
Last spring Mistral (free tier) was better for my usage (mainly JS programming) than ChatGPT (free tier). No idea which is better now (esp. after openai launched chatgpt 4, but Mistral improved too) but at least Mistral isn't bad at all.
I don't think I have to elaborate on Linux > Windows. If that's really needed ask for it please. Summary: It's simply better, the times where it was only for nerds are long gone.
Search engine doesn't matter too much. I usually use DuckDuckGo and it works fine (does what a search engine should do without displaying ads, unlike Google).
Signal over WhatsApp also is pretty obvious, but it's the hardest one to change because so many people simply don't want to switch once one thing is running and you want to communicate with those people.
LibreWolf basically is Firefox (which is far better than Chrome in terms of privacy, ad blocking, customisability, ...)
Startpage? (based in Netherlands). I mean it’s a frontend for google, but ecosia is a frontend for bing. And startpage has a no log policy which beats ecosia.
Startpage gives very good results, I recall reading somewhere that they use search results from Google, but I honestly don't know. I use it over Ecosia because it has slightly better results and is more privacy focused. Plus I never click any adverts, so Ecosia wouldn't generate an awful lot of trees from my usage haha.
I also used Qwant, but the search results weren't great for more complex search queries.
Federated messaging we've had for ages: XMPP
A modern messenger based on existing technologies, including encrypted email which you happen mention: Delta Chat
Not sure if how they work in DuckDuckGo or Brave, but in Ecosia they have predefined bangs for some sites that open that site's search when you write them. E.g. “#g woodpecker" would open a google search page for the result woodpecker, same for #yt for YouTube.
If you want to use large language models or other generative predictive models (I refuse to call it AI) then I suggest considering self hosting those models for ultimate control of the information you provide.
You mean like a code debugger not in VS Code? I mean... IntelliJ offers pretty amazing built-in debugging functionality. And as a bonus, they're located in Prague, so you're supporting a EU company by using IntelliJ.
No, I meant something like this, but for Linux. Not a command line tool, not some janky wrapper around the command line tool, not another IDE that would force me to abandon my current setup (Kate + Language Servers).
And no, I don't care about "scripts", my usecase (game development) isn't about creating software with minimal interaction. I also don't care about Mortal Kombat Fatality-tier key combinations a la Vim.
I don't know what to tell you, but a debugger is usually shipped with an IDE. If your IDE doesn't ship with a debugger then that's an issue completely independent from any OS that you're using. When I write C# programs in Visual Studio, I use the Visual Studio debugger. When I write games in Godot, I use the Godot debugger. When I write games in Unreal, I use the Unreal debugger. When I write Web Applications in IntelliJ, I use the IntelliJ Debugger. Your use case just seems extremely strange.
That being said, I'm sure there is a tool out there that does what you're looking for. I'm just not sure you should be looking for it.
I divide my work between 3 things: code IDE, browser, and command line. I have a pop down console that has some 20-30 tabs, each with some 2-4 command line consoles each. It's awesome, fasr, and efficient. I pretty much never use GUI tools for anything at all.
I'll do almost any task you do in 30 minutes on GUI in at most half that time on the command line.
I know that the command line isn't for everyone, but if you're a developer, or DevOps or anything alike, get the command like and get twice the work done
Never would I have thought Lemmy would advocate installing Linux.
They're so entrenched in OS/2, it came as a complete surprise to me as well.
What happened to all the "Your games will run fine in OS/2", "it feels just like windows"?
I actually saw a pretty good YouTube recently about what happened to OS/2. In short IBM treated the OS as an afterthought, and didn't really invest in marketing. The OS/2 team did a spectacular job with what they were given, but the corporate umbrella didn't really care, so the market all went the win95 route instead.
I tried OS/2 v3 in the 90's and it was actually pretty decent.
EDIT: I think this was the one.
I had it as a secondary system and it certainly was quite good.
Its compatibility with dos and windows was also quite good. And technically, it was way beyond what Microsoft had. It should have dominated the market.
Why?
It meme
Signal is American
Opt for a Matrix or XMPP provider in Europe (magicbroccoli.de is a genuinely great XMPP provider)
While Signal's home base is the US, they are a non profit org that doesn't operate in the same way as for-profit corporations. Also, Signal collects basically zero data so there's no incentive to sell out, and who would want to buy them anyway when they have no data and the server and client are open source.
Matrix is great, but I wouldn't compare it to Signal. I use both for very different purposes.
Agree with the sentiment against signal. However, Matrix is terrible for anyone who doesn't want to bother with reading up on several hours of information just to use a text messenger. I will start reccomanding Matrix the moment someone actually manages to produce a feature complete client with usable UI/UX.
+1 This is why I moved my family over to Signal, despite it being an American company.
Another benefit is that it’s gaining some serious traction with a lot of people now moving to Signal. Makes it easier for family members to move as well.
yeah been trying out matrix. Setup a server and tried various clients. They are all shit.
XMPP is more comparable to Signal, yes.
Signal does need (yes, need) a phone number, and most people only have one so that is identifiable info.
This puts it at mostly the same level as some competitors, including WhatsApp which is often advised against.
XMPP allows unencrypted messages and leaks metadata - Signal does neither.
Signal is basically a privacy enhanced text/SMS/phone replacement. I can give my phone to someone in person and they can immediately start "texting" me on Signal - this is a feature (as well as a con to some people).
People advise against Whatsapp because while it uses Signal to encrypt message contents, they take no effort to minimize the collection of metadata - Signal's been compelled by court to present all data it has on its users various times and the only info they have is the day/time you signed up for their services and the last day (not time) one of your clients pinged their servers - Source: https://signal.org/bigbrother/
I have yet to find any other free service that collects this little information and works just as well as a normal non-encrypted messenger. Even Signals sticker packs are end-to-end encrypted - Source: https://signal.org/blog/make-privacy-stick/
What metadata does XMPP leak? AFAIK only when a message was sent, roughly (in large increments) how large the message was, the server of the sender knows from who to which server, the server of the recipient knows from which server to who.
I find it strange that Signal somehow doesn't know when a message was sent, and from who to who; how would they ever make this possible?
Also, you say you have yet to find any other free service that collects as little data... How about most e-mail providers? Not Google and Microsoft of course, but most e-mail providers only need a name which can be made up as well. You hm also host your own email server, then you are in control. All of this is true for XMPP and Matrix, as well.
[email protected]/resource. The[email protected]part identifies the user and their home server, and the/resourceidentifies the specific client device they are using (e.g.,[email protected]/mobileor[email protected]/laptop)./resourcepart of the JID can reveal the type of client or device being used.Signal uses Sealed Sender (wired.com). Imagine if letters you sent didn't require a "from" field - or it was inside the envelope and impossible for anyone to see it. The post office would only know who its going to and only the recipient can decrypt it (open the letter) to see who sent it. Now, you could say, well they have your IP and can correlate it to the account, but the easy way around this is to either use a VPN or Signal proxy (support.signal.org) if you're that paranoid.
Read more about it here: Technology preview: Sealed sender for Signal (signal.org)
Most email providers suffer similar metadata leaks as XMPP because:
You could host your own email, XMPP, or Matrix server - that's definitely a win for privacy. But as soon as you interact with someone outside your ecosystem (server), metadata leakage is an issue again. It's why making end-to-end encrypted email is a hard problem to solve. It's not that it can't be secure, its that it has to work with those that aren't because that's the expectation.
Until you interact with others who aren't using encryption or have it misconfigured.
Also simplex is a good alternative, it's decentralized:)
This? https://https/://simplex.chat/
FWIW Matrix and XMPP are also decentralised, much like e-mail is, which is why I recommended it. I'm immediately skeptic about SimpleX's premise of having no user IDs; they'll likely need some unique field for each user, this might as well be a UUID or something like that... So what's the benefit?
Since it's related, here's a good comparison:
https://eylenburg.github.io/im_comparison.htm
I think the other person here explained the thing about user ids. Matrix and xmpp are good too, they're just different.
Simplex is more of a messenger, while xmpp/matrix are more of discord alternatives.
Also simplex works with nodes. I can host a simplex server and it will be added to the network. In matrix/xmpp if I host a server it will be a new instance, like in lemmy (if I get it right). Simplex's approach is like tor's approach, each server added contributes to the whole network (they arent a separate instance).
If you check their page they have some bery good features, to me it seems like its signal, done (somewhat) right. Signal doesnt even have a proper way to migrate accounts across devices.. not to mention the phone number requirement which might scare people who aren't gonna waste time hearing my explanation as to why it's not an issue or the fact that until recently signal would notify everyone in your contacts who had a signal account that you made an account, bruh
There's also this comment here that throws some shade to matrix, havent looked much into that tho.
Oh that is a great explanation, thanks a bunch!
Each convo gets its own UUID, and the convos can be spread across different servers/companies too.
That said the notifications don’t work consistently for me on iOS, so that’s a dealbreaker. Hopefully they fix that soon.
librewolf is still dependent on firefox for development, just like vivaldi is on chrome. there is no european web browser.
For FF and Chromium to, their source is open so if there ever was a need to make it fully European, it would be doable. Or did I miss something? (novice question, here)
in addition to the other reply, the teams working on browsers are massive. over 500 developers for each, and that's only the core teams without external contributors. you don't just put together a team like that in an afternoon.
Yes, I can imagine that. Thx (too ;))
The problem is that Librewolf, ungoogled chromium etc are soft forks, meaning they are completely dependent on the original projects. If for example Trump made a law banning releasing software as open source because that’s communism, Librewolf would likely cease to exist
Oh, it makes sense. Thx a lot for the clarification.
I got a security alert when clicking the link, I did not push further sorry ;)
Because it's not using https. While https is certainly preferable, as long as you're just reading info of a website (not making an account, entering data) http is pretty much fine.
Modern Browsers just don't like it (which is also understandable, because most users probably don't care about the nuances of when it is or isn't a problem).
I see, thx.
yeah, webkit (as in, the engine for safari, and the base of blink which powers chromium) is based on khtml. khtml is oooooooold.
mojeek is a search engine.
Threema is a European secure messenger.
It's also a paid product with multiple flaws found in a recent-ish audit:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/messenger-billed-as-better-than-signal-is-riddled-with-vulnerabilities/
Paid means you’re more likely a customer than the product.
I can’t verify the security claims either way, but this article is a counter point to the one one linked: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/threema-claims-encryption-flaws-never-had-a-real-world-impact/
Paid unfortunately also means that it's way harder to convince anyone to use it, even though the price seems very low for what you get. The other problem that brings is that I don't know what I'm buying exactly until I bought it.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I’ve bought it for three people I know, and I’ve had three people buy it themselves.
I’ve only suggested it to people close to me who use Android because my main phone is iOS and texting between the two is a way worse experience than Threema. I also have Signal, but no one has asked me to use that. I also find it annoying that Signal needs my phone number. I hear they’re working on changing that.
@Zachariah It is worth it?
@Blaze
So your suggestion to "buy European" is to download a bunch of free shit...
I tried Mistral and it's awesome, I am upgrading to the paid version
Last spring Mistral (free tier) was better for my usage (mainly JS programming) than ChatGPT (free tier). No idea which is better now (esp. after openai launched chatgpt 4, but Mistral improved too) but at least Mistral isn't bad at all.
I don't think I have to elaborate on Linux > Windows. If that's really needed ask for it please. Summary: It's simply better, the times where it was only for nerds are long gone.
Search engine doesn't matter too much. I usually use DuckDuckGo and it works fine (does what a search engine should do without displaying ads, unlike Google).
Signal over WhatsApp also is pretty obvious, but it's the hardest one to change because so many people simply don't want to switch once one thing is running and you want to communicate with those people.
LibreWolf basically is Firefox (which is far better than Chrome in terms of privacy, ad blocking, customisability, ...)
Isn't ecosia paying
GoogleBing for its results?Edit: changed Google to Bing.
Yes, but ecosia is currently building a European search index together with qwant. In my view, the two are therefore worth supporting
They're planning to eventually switch to a european index alongside Qwant.
So is Startpage, if I recall correctly.
Startpage is based on Google.
So is Qwant, yes.
Startpage? (based in Netherlands). I mean it’s a frontend for google, but ecosia is a frontend for bing. And startpage has a no log policy which beats ecosia.
System1 acquired Startpage and they are based in the US.
Well that's a bummer, but at least the company who owns Startpage will remain in the Netherlands for now it seems.
https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521498779156-What-it-means-for-Startpage-now-that-System1-is-a-publicly-traded-company
Startpage gives very good results, I recall reading somewhere that they use search results from Google, but I honestly don't know. I use it over Ecosia because it has slightly better results and is more privacy focused. Plus I never click any adverts, so Ecosia wouldn't generate an awful lot of trees from my usage haha.
I also used Qwant, but the search results weren't great for more complex search queries.
Isn't signal owned by a single company with backend infrastructure all Managed by them and only them?
The current CEO is nice, for sure, but she won't be there forever. Look at what Mozilla just did, this eventually WILL happen to signal too
What alternatives are there form something like signal?
You can self-host Signal, although you’d need your friends to sign up with your server.
What we really need is a federated messaging platform. I don’t think it’s been done yet, but encrypted email efforts are kinda in that direction.
Matrix is trying to fill that gap
Federated messaging we've had for ages: XMPP
A modern messenger based on existing technologies, including encrypted email which you happen mention: Delta Chat
We have email as an example of federated messaging
Where it’s mainly owned by Google and Microsoft
Ew, Chromium
And why not DuckDuckGo?
For more varied and detailed recommendations, these might be useful:
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop-browsers/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/search-engines/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/real-time-communication/
Already done most of those, whatsapp is the hardest to replace for me from this category.
Whatsapp/Facebook is probably one of the biggest offenders. They're one of the ones that got us into this mess.
Wait, wasn't Vivaldi bought by a Chinese conglomerate?
I need an european search engine that supports bangs
Qwant apparently supports something similar
https://help.qwant.com/en/docs/qwant-search/searching/comment-utiliser-les-raccourcis-de-recherche-qwick/
No, it doesn't take you to the website you used the bang for. Doesn't behave like duckduckgo or brave search
Yeah, they're not working for me either.
Not sure if how they work in DuckDuckGo or Brave, but in Ecosia they have predefined bangs for some sites that open that site's search when you write them. E.g. “#g woodpecker" would open a google search page for the result woodpecker, same for #yt for YouTube.
It would've been perfect if it recommended matrix instead of american-owned signal.
As an american I am switching to European apps I am disgusted with being an american citizen and if I could I would move.
If you want to use large language models or other generative predictive models (I refuse to call it AI) then I suggest considering self hosting those models for ultimate control of the information you provide.
If that’s not possible, https://duck.ai/ is pretty damn good privacy wise. (Not Based in EU)
Communications: Wire (what's everyone's opinion on that?)
Search engine: selfhosted searxng if possible.
You can run very powerful llm locally, albeit slowly if you lack GPU power.
Check out Dolphin models you can run on LM Studio
Fuck the Ai slop.
It’s a technology being used by capitalist around the world to take jobs away from people and to push fascist agendas!
https://newsocialist.org.uk/transmissions/ai-the-new-aesthetics-of-fascism/
Okay, is there any debugger with a GUI, that isn't just the command line interface in either a separate window or just a tab in VSCode?
You mean like a code debugger not in VS Code? I mean... IntelliJ offers pretty amazing built-in debugging functionality. And as a bonus, they're located in Prague, so you're supporting a EU company by using IntelliJ.
No, I meant something like this, but for Linux. Not a command line tool, not some janky wrapper around the command line tool, not another IDE that would force me to abandon my current setup (Kate + Language Servers).
And no, I don't care about "scripts", my usecase (game development) isn't about creating software with minimal interaction. I also don't care about Mortal Kombat Fatality-tier key combinations a la Vim.
I don't know what to tell you, but a debugger is usually shipped with an IDE. If your IDE doesn't ship with a debugger then that's an issue completely independent from any OS that you're using. When I write C# programs in Visual Studio, I use the Visual Studio debugger. When I write games in Godot, I use the Godot debugger. When I write games in Unreal, I use the Unreal debugger. When I write Web Applications in IntelliJ, I use the IntelliJ Debugger. Your use case just seems extremely strange.
That being said, I'm sure there is a tool out there that does what you're looking for. I'm just not sure you should be looking for it.
What's wrong with command line?
I divide my work between 3 things: code IDE, browser, and command line. I have a pop down console that has some 20-30 tabs, each with some 2-4 command line consoles each. It's awesome, fasr, and efficient. I pretty much never use GUI tools for anything at all.
I'll do almost any task you do in 30 minutes on GUI in at most half that time on the command line.
I know that the command line isn't for everyone, but if you're a developer, or DevOps or anything alike, get the command like and get twice the work done