Luigi Mangione set to appear in court in New York state case on Friday
Summary
Luigi Mangione, accused of murdering UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, is set to appear in a New York courtroom Friday for a hearing on evidence exchange and a potential trial date.
He faces state murder charges with a terrorism enhancement, carrying a life sentence without parole.
Mangione also faces federal charges, including one with a potential death penalty, and separate charges in Pennsylvania. His defense claims political bias in the case.
In a statement, Mangione thanked supporters for their letters from across the country and the world.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/luigi-mangione-new-york-state-case-court-appearance-friday/story?id=119008079Open linkView original on lemmy.world650
Comments62
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
And if you're on the jury, you never say the words "jury nullification". It technically isn't allowed, and you can be removed from the jury.
But if you just think there's reasonable doubt, then nothing can be done.
It's totally allowed. It's why citizen juries exist instead of professional jurors, and a jury's right to determine the law is established in Article I, Section 8 of the New York Constitution. It's specifically discussing libel cases, but that doesn't necessarily limit them.
You still shouldn't say it, because you'll be removed anyway, but jury nullification is the legal system's last line of defense against unjust just laws.
Its "allowed" in the sense that you can return a verdict of innocent without providing an explanation for why you found him innocent, and the court is not allowed to issue a verdict notwithstanding the jury in criminal cases. It's perfectly legal for the court to dismiss you as a juror if you announce your intention to nullify at any point in the trial or explain that your intention is to nullify when you announce your verdict. So if you intend to nullify, you should stay quiet about it until you finish deliberating.
Source: I'm a law student and we just covered this in Criminal Law.
They can also dismiss you for saying you intend to declare guilt no matter what.
A juror deciding a verdict before hearing the case should be dismissed.
Do you think enough people will learn of this in time for the jury selection, in theory?
Historically, how often has this happened?
Can nods or other physical gestures count as an intent to nullify the process? Like a fresh tattoo of the green super mario bro. There's plausible deniability there, right?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just sick of talking to chatbots. I crave answers from human beings. I don't want a chatbot's heartless, supposedly unbiased answer. Throw in as much bias as you'd like.
That being said, if you don't want jury duty for a criminal case, mentioning jury nullification is a sure way to get the prosecution to kick you out of the jury pool. It's one of the reasons why I haven't had to sit on a jury for over 30 years.
Its 100% supported by Supreme Court precedent.
Judges are permitted, also supported by precedent, to lie and say it isn't. That doesnt change that it is though.
A far more detailed tutorial:
https://beyondcourts.org/sites/default/files/2022-07/Jury-Nullification-Toolkit-English_0.pdf
Godspeed, Luigi.
Dude is fucked. They'll find the WASPiest, pearl-clutchiest jury they can and will martyr this guy. Innocence or guilt be damned.
If that happens, i hope the keg of frustration pops
Terrorism, according to the United Nations General Assembly:
Luigi certainly didn't bring the public into a state of terror, if anything quite the opposite - so I suppose the real question is do we class Health Insurance Executives politically as a group of people to incite terror onto?
I'd argue that a group of people who would happily sign away someone's life if it meant them getting richer don't deserve that kind of recognition, but I'd bet the courts will say yes because their rich friends want an example made of him.
A group such as healthcare CEOs, and the wealthy in general?
Not that I think he did it. But terrorism doesn't have to be directed at the public at large.
New York state terrorism law is this:
https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article490.php#p490.25
Unfortunately, I think there's an argument that insurance parasites count as a civilian population
However, it's not at all clear to me that Mr. Mangione may have intended to intimidate or coerce the entire population is health care CEOs with his alleged actions. There's a decent-looking alternative theory of this case that he may have been just pissed with the one guy.
These facts will have to explored at trial if the state wants to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt
If he even committed the alleged act at all 🤷
Yup. It's a pretty open category so legally it's valid ... which sucks. :/
The CEO was not a billionaire. So it's not billionaires as a group.
That comes down to a question of what unit of government was the murder trying to influence. His target was pretty clearly United Healthcare itself, not any part of the government.
I dont feel terror or endangered by CEO killing vigilantes (as long as they have good aim and dont cause collateral damage). I'm sure the rest of the general public also feels safer without these CEO psycopaths walking around.
Corporations are people here and they see this as terrorism because their managers do.
Whether a jury will sign off on the Citizens United view of the public as corporate citizens depends on how willing avg jurists are to rationalize the fiction.
Oh yeah, this guy.
He couldn't have done it, he was spending that time at my house helping me move. You guys were there too, remember?
Yep, brought the beer and everything. Was a great time, easy move, hows the new place?
Great place, except for how far from NYC it is. I miss the days of being able to travel to NYC in less than 24 hours
Thoughts and prayers, Luigi. Not the fake Republican school shooting ones, real ones!
On what grounds is the terrorism charge constructed? Seriously.
For once, I don't think that particular charge is entirely inconsistent with the dictionary definition.
He's accused of killing a member of the public in the hope of frightening everyone else in that person's position into taking some kind of action.
I think the law says something about killing for a "political purpose", with the goal of changing some kind of public policy or behaviour. That's not an unreasonable interpretation of what happened, I think.
Unfortunately that means they get to use the laws which were written to deal with mass murder and bombing public spaces, which I don't think is particularly appropriate but doesn't seem out of line with the law
How would you even go about proving that without a confession, let alone proving he was the one that actually did it. If they can point to one thing this CEO or Company did that would get someone potentially angry enough toward that one person or company to do harm then I'm not sure how you expand that to everyone else.
If he was a terrorist, then law enforcement should’ve had everyone evacuate the area at the time of incident. That did not happen, so sounds like they’re just trying to pile on whatever BS they can
It's arguable, sure, but unnecessary. They have to prove beyond a doubt that his intentions were to threaten the government into making political changes. They could have just charged him with murder where they'd only need to prove he wanted to kill the guy. Both crimes would lead to life in prison, so why go for the one more difficult to prove? Ironically, I think it's because the government wants to threaten the public.
Consideration of this incident as terrorism is a great indicator of the position of private businesses within US policy. Corporations are, for all intents and purposes, a core contingent of the US government and its policy, hence why the corporate media+capital class+politicians are treating it as such.
On the grounds that he caused terror for the only people that actually matter, the ruling class.
We care more about capitalism than anything else and he threatened the rich...
Like, not saying I agree with it, but the answer for why they're labeling it terrorism is really obvious
Does that mean he's taken?
Hey, hey, get in line, hussy. I've been standing here all day.
Hope some of you in the US will be protesting at the courtroom.
There is a huge crowd there right now!
He outright murdered a man, nothing to protest.
A whole lot to protest, actually.
He ALLEGEDLY killed a man. Not been proven in court yet, and he is claiming that he's being framed.
Also even if it's true, terrorism charges are wildly inappropriate, and are being used here as a threat.
Then there's the matter of him being paraded around with a dozen armed guards, a clear violation of international law which guarantees the dignity of prisoners.
Finally, even if he deliberately murdered the CEO of a large healthcare provider, and deserves jail time, etc., there is still the fact that said CEO was complicit in the deaths of hundreds of patients that had claims denied, for the sake of endless profiteering.
So, yeah. Protest.
He did nothing wrong
That may be, but he did something illegal.
Then we are there to protest the law
Laws against murder? Ok bud
Oh gosh
If he is the murderer, which hasn't been proven, he has a kill count of one. The murderer he allegedly killed was responsible for thousands of deaths.
I was honestly expecting him to be stuck in prison for a while longer so they could keep mistreating him. I hope he gets cleared of these obviously fabricated charges.
the treatment of this guy has been absolutely evil depraved shit, free Luigi ✊ he didn't do it and he didn't write that manifesto
He's so beautiful
You should think about something better when it comes to this.
A societal issues of haves and have nots comes to blows and you are saying what? “He’s pretty”
That’s something you can keep to yourself. Makes you look better.
He's so pretty
Isn't he?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/just%20deserts
I like the matching mom and son outfits he and his lawyer were sporting
Here you go:
Jumper :) Brilliant
Shut the fuck up, Tim Noel.
Gonna look like Groucho Marx.