Elton John Says Legalizing Marijuana in America and Canada Is “One of the Greatest Mistakes of All Time”
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Comments147https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/elton-john-says-legalizing-marijuana-005352813.htmlOpen linkView original on lemmy.world
Oh joy, moralizing from a dry drunk.
Who dresses like a bad acid trip.
But he's blind these days, so now he has an excuse for that part.
OK boomer
Hey! It fits this time
I spent age 16-25 a constant pothead. I mean, some weeks I'd just never be sober. My friend said that I sat up in bed, opened the drawer, pulled out a baggie, packed a bowl, smoked 2 hits, and then layed back down. All without waking up, or stop snoring.
I have never once done any other drug. I'm 42 now, and haven't smoked weed in about 10 years.
I know others with similar stories. Weed does not lead to other drugs. Your choices do.
Improper education leads to other, harder drugs. See DARE
Good call. I had my first intro to drugs in 3rd grade health class. I walked away thinking weed was the absolute worst thing you could do, but meth and acid were alright. I later found out that lesson was right in only one regard.
I mean acid and a few other psychedelics are ok. Meth abuse is harmful for sure, same for many opioids except when used in a medical setting or if you actually need them.
Different people take it differently. I lead a super active life, and am more active than my friends who don't indulge.
I clean, do stuff, am active, and consume heroic amounts of weed. I wake up early AF and am always early to things. I am not forgetful either or act "confused".
I know everybody is affected differently, yet I hold the belief that the "stoner stereotype" is not as much about the weed slowing people down but about people being themselves and using weed as an excuse.
Perhaps my belief is due to my experience with it.
And you just demonstrated far more self awareness than Elton John!
Weed led me to lsd which led to improving myself through some good long looks in the mirror. Meanwhile opiate addiction is far more frequently caused by legitimate prescription (and I'm not advocating against it, yall don't want to experience surgery like those of us who are allergic have to)
Weed opened my mind to trying other drugs, for sure. It wasn’t weed itself though, it was the fact that I was told growing up that all drugs, including weed, will ruin my life and health. I tired weed and it was giggly and relatively benign, which made me realize that everything I was taught was wrong.
I’ve had some of the best times of my life on MDMA, with my partner!
Cool story. Weed should be legal. But let's not pretend it doesn't have any harmful effects. Alcohol and smoking should be illegal though.
No one is pretending that, certainly not the person you responded to.
His point is that it's not a drug that has to lead to other drugs
yes it has, though not as big as some people make it out to.
it has, because it's illegal and puts people into contact with the legal market.
When you actually look at it, alcohol or coffee (depending on your interpretation of drug) are far bigger gateway drugs, alongside tobacco/nicotine/vapes.
I agree with everything you say. vapes (i dont like that name) were alot more controlled being sold only in ecigarette stores, and when they weren't disposable or these small little devices, there was not many people who were "non-tobacco users" starting.
Source: worked in the e-cigarette industry for a few years. Left when big tobacco came in.
Shut up, nerd.
Alcohol should be illegal? What a dumb take.
Translation: I did whatever the fuck I wanted to do and now I've worked out that I was a shithead. It therefore follows that it was these external things that made me a shithead. Nevermind that countless other people have experienced the same things as "essentially harmless fun." I, of course (having been a raging shithead) am in a position to know better.
The logic is flawless.
Elton John, confirmed boomer.
Exactly, it's like closing a mountain trail entirely because one idiot took a selfie too close to the edge
Sounds like narcissism.
Okay but seriously, he's entitled to his opinions. Besides, if he's successfully gone through rehab, he's not exactly going to be pro-drugs after that.
As someone who hasn’t had a drink for 23 years one of the big issues with former addicts and alcoholics is the same “if it’s not good for me it’s not good for you” attitude we see everywhere else.
It’s yet more exceptionalism where we mistake the phenomenon of our perception and experience as a direct stand in for everyone else’s.
Even more problematic that it comes from someone with (and I’m willing to step out on a ledge here) a self-professed disease (alcoholics often refer to “their disease”.) That’s fine, but you don’t see diabetics recommending everyone constantly monitor their blood glucose and take insulin.
Like yes, I understand that when my wife has her first beer it doesn’t set off the trigger I have where I need all the beer (and liquor and whatever drugs you have on you) in the world until I don’t remember who I am.
To be fair, being aware of your glucose level isn't a bad thing. Insulin is probably not an "everyone" thing but if monitoring blood glucose wasn't so cumbersome, I would suggest it to anyone. It has similar value to monitoring weight, blood pressure or temperature.
Having been hooked on cocaine and then implicitly or explicitly equating it with weed, sounds like some sort of internal "reefer madness" 24 hour movie-thon playing in his head.
Wanting cannabis to be legal isn't necessarily "pro-drug." No more than wanting alcohol to be legal is.
Ah yes. The dreaded marijuana rehab I presume.
I wish the press would stop asking fucking celebrities questions about social issues. They do not represent society and never will.
I agree, but I find it amusing in this case since this guy pretty much owes his career to people in the 70s getting high and listening to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
Typical Boomer/Conservative move. They enjoy something and then enjoy it even more by telling everyone else they’re not allowed to use it.
As much of a shit head as he is, I can separate the man from the music and jam that shit loud as fuck because good lord it's a banger.
You can't lock me in your penthouse, I'm going back to my town!
Unless they say the thing I like, then they are the best person ever!
(I jest here about people's hypocrisy, but I agree, I don't listen to artists because I necessarily sign off on every single dumb opinion they have or action they take. I pirate anyway, who cares.)
Noted drug scientist Elton John? Or the musician? Because I don't give a fuck what some entertainment celebrity has to say about that.
All I see here is the common kneejerk reaction to anything remotely criticizing marijuana. Elton John is a dry alcoholic and has been supporting other people with substance abuse issues for many years now. To him trivialization of any sort of drug use is negative. Calling it "the greatest mistake" is just some hyperbole to highlight the issue he sees. And he's not wrong in that there are many people, like in this comment section, who act as if there are no negative side effects to consuming cannabis. That is not only wrong but dangerous, because it is a drug and like all drugs it has its downsides that people need to be aware of. Still, personally I think decriminalization was the right thing. But stop acting like cannabis can do no evil.
I believe the risks of cannabis are significantly less than nearly every other recreational drug out there. Hell, I am a huge psychedelic proponent, which in many cases causes less physical damage than most other drugs but also comes with its own list of caveats.
But yeah, I see what you are saying and agree. It is important to understand the correct risks of just about anything in life.
Some dry alcoholics love their soapbox though. I'll occasionally bash alcohol, but I honestly try to keep my opinion to myself unless I am with other recovering alcoholics. (Repetitive negative reinforcement has a place, believe it or not.) What I am saying is that it is easy for someone in perpetual recovery to get a hair preachy. It's a thing. (Also guilty here, btw.)
I would wager marijuana, even eating it rather than smoking, is more harmful than coffee. I'm not totally certain, since I don't drink coffee. I do consume marijuana.
The toxicity level of caffeine is going to be much higher and cause some nasty cardiovascular issues at higher dosages. (I was hospitalized as a teen for a caffeine overdose, actually. It's not a fun time.)
This is a rough estimate, as I didn't send too much time looking, but 1.2g of pure caffeine is enough to cause seizures with an estimate I saw of 5-10 grams to be lethal.
The first result I saw for a lethal dose of THC was 1.2g/kg so for a 180lb (81.6kg) person that is about 100g. (That's a lot of pure THC, btw.)
Nah, I've had those negative side effects and I know them well, including depression from withdrawal, short term memory lapses and Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. They sound bad but they don't compare to other drugs in the slightest and in my case are incredibly manageable. None of these are permanent or life-changing and go away within a week after quitting cold turkey, which I've done many many times. Are you sure you're not exaggerating the danger bit?
Just because other things are worse doesn't mean cannabis is good. It's definitely better in comparison, but it's still a far cry from being harmless. That's all I'm saying. I'd argue it should be treated similarly to alcohol, in that you're not allowed to get it as a minor. And THC content should be better regulated, like alcohol content somewhat is. More THC only for adults, for example. It's idiotic to demonize cannabis, especially with alcohol being such a big part of everyday life for so many people. But that doesn't mean it's fine for everybody to consume THC like it's nothing.
What you are describing is legalization. The thing that Elton John is railing against here.
Yes. I disagree with him, but I also understand where he's coming from.
I understand where he is coming from as well, but yes, I disagree with prohibition in general and it's not for political reasons.
The best way to get someone to do something is to tell them they can't do it or they shouldn't do it. It's human nature, especially during youth.
Sorry I gave you that impression but that's not my point. My comparison is not necessarily meant to paint cannabis as good. (And so what if it did, anyway, what's wrong with that as a fine drug of choice?) I'm saying its side effects are more manageable compared to the side effects of other recreational drugs to the point of them feeling like a minor inconvenience. When I feel bad, I quit cold turkey and it all goes away in a couple of days. That has never failed me (or many people I know who take breaks) in ten-plus years of mixed use. But ask them about cigarettes and they straight-up complain they can't stop.
That's all I'm saying. I would never say that it's for everyone or that it'll be necessarily good for you to consume it in whatever form. I don't actively recommend cannabis. Fine if you do and fine if you don't. But let's not exaggerate the effects.
Edited for clarity.
Yes. Anyone who has experienced physical drug addiction knows that not all drugs/addictions are created equal.
For example, you can literally die from alcohol withdrawal.
If anything, cannabis keeps me sane enough to not need to medicate myself with harder shit to escape this shithole reality.
How are you the only level-headed person in this thread?
The others have smoked too much.😛
Stoners on the internet generally seem to think it's a cure-all.
I smoked last night but even I know it's not good for you. It's an escape. It's likely safer than alcohol... as edibles anyway... but smoking it is likely on par with smoking cigarettes and vaping is going to increase cancer rates too.
I suspect it degrades your ability to recall memory too and that the more you use it the worse it gets, but that's hard to quantify given that our memory seems to get worse as we age anyway.
I agree that it could be considered addictive. But same could be said about booze. Prohibition is horseshit.
Yeah, having nuance on the Internet is hard.
I appreciate his history and how it guides this, but I argue that - in the context of addiction - not banning alcohol and its societal promotion is a greater harm by any government. Absurd? Yes. But deep down inside it’s no more absurd than prohibiting marijuana considering their similarities in societal use. I was going to say similarities in relative harm too, but alcohol is killing vastly more people than all other recreational drugs.
Canada legalizing marijuana simply stopped criminalizing normal society. The matrix of harm/help of alcohol, weed, and others is way more complex than prohibition.
We already know what alcohol prohibition did in the U.S. and we know that our prisons are filled with people who happened to have a dime bag in their pocket when a cop stopped them. He's not an idiot. He has to know about both of those things.
Shut up and play your piano, redcoat.
It is very habit forming but that's hardly a reason for it to be illegal.
It's not nearly as addictive as nicotine or ethanol...
Or sugar.
Right. Eating is addictive. Drinking of course. And for a lot of people so is running, lol.
It's no more or less habit forming than actual grass in a very literal sense.
Moreover caffeine is proven to be far more harmful and orders of magnitude more habit forming than most illegal drugs.
Caffeine improves productivity so nobody cares about its impacts on our hearts.
It's always good to hear what the experts have to say on these matters.
He must not be very intelligent to hold these debunked and outdated views. Quite out of touch with reality.
He seems to be a sobriety zealot. Most of the damage caused by marijuana is the illegality of it
Fuck off elton. You know as well as anyone the same can be said for alcohol. As a legalization person I am very disappointed in at least the illinois legalization. It does not allow for private grow for everyone and puts to much money into to small of hands. In addition all the adult entertainment should have severe advertising restrictions. They should be restricted to only having adverts in other adult businesses. So liquor stores, dispensiaries, gambling establishments, bars, etc. stores should not be able to advertise liquor but just have the section with prices and thats it. Same with restaurants. We should totally allow adults to do these things but it stay out of the general public space.
Illinois is especially bad on catering to this shit. I agree, their cannabis laws suck, but I also hate that every bar also has slot machines. Let's encourage two addictions at once and make every place you can get a drink a place you can also lose your shirt!
I'm just on the Indiana side of the Indiana/Illinois border and I appreciate being able to drive half an hour to a dispensary, but Illinois "vice" laws are seriously fucked up.
yeah we are so close to having good things but the corruption always spoils it. Its the traditional democrat half a loaf. I would rather have the half a loaf but what I would really like is a well baked, well made, full loaf. This is not a both sides things, btw 4 the peanut gallery. Half a loaf is way better than no loaf. We are super lucky to be positioned to draw tax money from so many states though. Yeah though I would like it not to be apparent that anything is legalized when driving through the state but see a bar or liqour store and boom you can get all the info you need. I agree with the slot machines but honestly I would rather not allow the internet stuff. You want to gamble then get off your ass and go to an establishment. If internet was not allowed I sorta can see why bars would be allowed like sports book and slots.
I've smoked weed for 21 years and have had zero desire to try other, harder, drugs.
Guess I'm just an outlier and all the studies disproving marijuana as a "gateway drug" are bullshit. 🤷🏻♂️
Marijuana being a gateway drug was just a very successful propaganda phrase
Ej isn't an American so it's none of his business really. Everyone likes thc when it becomes legal, Ive seen my very conservative family get stoned a bunch now and they love it. Sorta something the left and the right seem to overwhelmingly agree on
Even if it’s true, legalization would reduce that immensely because you don’t have to buy weed from a dealer who can give you a sweet deal on some harder drugs but grow it at home or get it from a store instead, where you won’t be upsold illegal substances.
Maybe the term "gateway drug" isn't a warning for users about their habits but a warning to users about the slippery slope of companies realizing the next drug needs to be legalized and put on the shelf next to weed for more of that sweet, sweet money.
The only reason pot is a gateway drug is because it opens your eyes to altered mental states in a positive light and because the same person selling you the pot is highly likely to offer other things.
People generally want more, the user more intense effects and the dealer more money.
Nevermind that someone wanting to try drugs would just try them anyway if weed didn't exist.
You can't think of a single greater mistake either of those country's has made that's worse than legal weed? Not a single one?
it says "one of the greatest", not "the greatest"; not saying I agree with even that, but let us not engage in strawman arguments
My bad, I was pretty high when I read it.
😂 Nice!
Stick to music, Elton.
I'd rather he didn't do that either, any more
What a douche.
Stupid old bonger meddling in North American affairs.
Says the American
Musicians only use 1/3 of their brain because making great music uses the other 2/3rds. Sometimes this rule isn't true when a musician is part of a group, so they can still like study and better themselves without having to burn out just making music, but solo musicians and prominent bandleaders are hopeless. The best you can hope for from a musician is that they are at least self aware of their own idiocy and can laugh at it or keep it in check, but this quality doesn't survive very long once someone makes several million dollars.
I don't think this is how brains work.
It closely approximates my experience having known dozens of musicians, I'll have my neuroscientist friend weigh in later today. Keep refreshing this thread until you see her response
My dad works at Nintendo and is going to ban you from all games.
As a fellow musician, I'm not able to read
Elton John doesn't write his own music.
He doesn't write his own lyrics, he does write his own music
Even if I agreed it was a mistake, I'd have a hard time placing it in the top 500.
It's not quite up there with, for example, owning humans as property.
No, no, no... He places it as the 9,876,546,207th greatest mistake. So, still technically correct if he were listing the top 10 billion mistakes.
Soooooooooooo, Germany's Legalization is fine then?
Okay good! (Join the BubatzGartenClub!)
Bin ich cool genug, einzuladen?
Na klar!
Who asked your opinion and since when as it become relevant?
Go listen to Rocket Man. Please, do that.
This is an individual well known for being a diva, in the bad sense of the expression. He once cancelled a show in my country, with a fully sold out venue, at 250€ a seat, because - grab your seats! - he demand a "masseusse" and the venue was unable to provide a profissional willing to provide the service.
His penchant for heavy drinking is also a well known issue and I have a somewhat hazy memory of reading somewhere he was once a cocaine user.
HooverVacuum cleaner level. Industrial force.So... who died and made his opinion relevant?
When you say Hoover do you mean the vacuum cleaner or the US president?
I am not aware if Pres. Hoover had a nose candy penchant.
Reviewed for clarification.
He was president of the united states in the 1920s. If he didn't do blow like Nixon did shots I'd be amazed. Actually I don't think Nixon wasted time pouring such small doses of liquor
Does not sound like "an ally" tbh
I get paranoid from weed.
But I do like myself some ketamine, cocaine, LSD, DMT, GHB, and MDMA :D
I tried GHB for first time a couple weeks ago and hit me wrong, my friends took care of me, but it was a dower. For some reason I started crying lmao. They blamed it on the LSD I took before, but I'm not sure that was the problem.
Yeah I don't see it being the best of mixes. GHB works on your serotonin receptors. That's why they also call it liquid ecstasy. But on the other hand it also gets you wasted like booze does. It's hard to dose and easily knocks people out. (I did drug education and one of the things we teach is how to position somebody who passes out from GHB so they don't choke on their vomit or tongue.) Besides that it's pretty fun, but I wouldn't mix it when tripping.
Be careful with ketamine. Matthew Perry died of it in a terrible way. This was after he had a colostomy because his colon burst from opioid use. I don't want it to get away on you like that.
I have done ketamine for 15 years. No need to worry.
There was one year where the police house struck me by taking away my drivers license and money, which made me use a lot. I was driving sober but there were leftover traces in my system. Good enough for them to fuck me hard and kick me to the ground. I ended up using around 5g per day and I had 6 bladder infections that year.
The only drugs that ever got me in trouble was the copium the law boofs when terrorizing drug users. Ketamine has always been something that helped me, except for when I used it to forget about the terrible situation the police left me in. I definitely take some blame for trying to forget, but it was the only thing I could do to not be consumed with absolute hate.
I don't think he would be as famous if people weren't doing drugs while listening to his music
Or because of the drugs he was doing when making his music.
It can be addictive. It can lead to other drugs. Neither of which means it needs to be illegal.
If we want to worry about addicts, maybe we should worry about all of the sugar addicts, considering obesity is a much bigger problem when it comes to all sorts of things in society, especially our healthcare system.
Sugar, ultraprocessed food, shopping/overconsumption, porn, gambling. Lots of normal things condoned by our society can be addictive for a segment of the population.
Right, but detracting from the point isn't very productive. Weed does have the opportunity to be addicting. Now that the world is leading towards more open use of it, hopefully we can do more research and better understand how things work.
This is honestly one of the saddest parts about all of this. 80+ years of scientific research that we could have been doing. All of the treatments and medicines that we'd likely have...
Every single time we learn something new and positive about a chemical in cannabis, I can't help but think that we should have known this shit for decades...
Yeah its really stupid. Also on kinda the same point i wish hemp was used more widely.
Absolutely, do the research. But don't pretend like this is the big addiction problem that must be solved.
no i never said anything like that. there is other drugs that have that issue like opioids
I know you didn't, but that's essentially what Elton John is saying.
elton john can walk down the yellow brick road
The sugar problem is wild. And I'll admit iv beens in it's clutches a lot longer than weed. Also I'm still happy with weed, and while I am trying to cut back on the sugars wholly shit it's so much harder than weed. Or booze, which I also enjoy and struggle with.
Lead to other drugs, no.
I think that the larger message there is more that he feels that recreational drug use isn't a great idea.
Says guy who made his fortunes selling to recreational drug users.
Since 1996 in California.
They will likely just use it as one of their legal cudgels for silencing dissent/opposition and "punishing" political opponents. In other words, they don't give a shit, but it will still be technically illegal so they can use it when it suits them.
Who is getting busted by federal agents for a half oz or a vape? It is legal in the states that have legalized it. Of course I'd rather it be made legal federally and I hate the states' rights kind of issue it is but to act like it is functionally illegal across the US is silly.
They've set up a situation where they can basically choose when and to whom, the law will apply. This is exactly what Republicans want.
This will be a defining feature of the upcoming Trump regime. You may have heard your Fox News watching relatives mention "lawfare" when talking about Trump being a criminal... Well it's more projection because it is exactly what they will be doing moving forward.
As it always is with conservatives, they are incapable of understanding that someone might not be a complete piece of shit like they are, so in their minds, everyone must be doing the thing that they want to be doing.
There are bad outcomes to cannabis use. It can kick off schizophrenia and depersonalization disorder, it actually can lower your IQ, and ending up in hospital because of palpitations from the high doses in gummies also happens, as well as cannabis hyperemesis, and it can affect sexual health and cause long term changes in the brain. This podcast did some great research https://www.psychiatrypodcast.com/psychiatry-psychotherapy-podcast/2019/5/1/marijuana-and-mental-health
Do I think recreational use is any more risky than alcohol? No. But using alcohol every day isn't great and neither is cannabis. A drink or two, a joint on the weekend? Not a big deal. Have some fun.
I think legalization in Canada is a bit mixed, dispensing with arresting and prosecuting people for having a little pot was a waste of time, and I don't really care if people relax with it. But there is a demonstrated increase in adverse outcomes from cannabis with legalization on the studies. And the 90 zillion weed stores in every city is overkill. Literally one on every block.
I don't use cannabis, the two times I've tried it it just made me tired so I don't see the point, but I don't care if people do. I just don't think it's wise not to know the risks.
While I think that legalisation, or at least decriminalisation, for personal use is probably the right policy decision I agree with Elton to a degree.
Currently there is a fairly well established cultural belief at least in English speaking countries that marijuana is not addictive, not dangerous to health, and not problematic at all.
The belief that marijuana is largely harmless persists despite the fact that we all know people who smoke excessively to the point of making their lives worse and if they come to this realisation they find it incredibly difficult to stop.
Criminalisation of marijuana, especially combined with over policing of specific communities as occurred in the USA, is a disaster. But not recognising the very real harms that marijuana does to some peoples lives is also a disaster.
I smoked a lot of weed, is addictive to a point but after 3 days sober it's not hard to not smoke weed. I haven't smoked weed in years. Nicotine on the other hand has it's claws deep in my soul. I could smoke weed tonight and not touch it again for 3 years, if I was years off of not having nicotine and I had a couple vapes I'd be back to a full time nicotine user within a week. That's both something that has happened and a hypothetical because of have to not currently be a nicotine user.
I mean, sure, its addictive and unhealthy. But, the people suffering from it are the people that take it in the first place, so, banning personal possession and use is effectively punishing the victims, adding more suffering which may drive some to seek more drugs to get through. And if you instead ban production and distribution, you simply create a perfect niche for organized crime to appear to do those things, which creates worse problems than the drugs themselves. If such drugs dont force those involved with them to hide, at least it is possible to put some regulations on them, and more easily monitor and intervene in their use.
Imagine anyone caring about what this irrelevant old fart thinks
It can make sense if you flesh it out. The headline and two lines the musician said about it are shallow, but there's a grain of truth in there.
I do believe that overuse of marijuana is going to be a negative. Kids under 24 using marijuana is going to be a negative. And both of those are going to increase with legalization.
Neither are as harmful as prohibition, but they're still harmful.
Potheads don't need to be on quite the same level as alcoholism, but it should be closer than it is. If you're not acknowledging the harm of using the legal system to enforce this, his quote makes sense. He may not have stated it well.
Issue being that legalization always leads to less and safer use.
Safer, sure. Less? Absolutely not. More people will use marijuana when it's legal.
And yet in Canada after legalization use has infact remained the same.
I only found sources claiming usage frequency remained the same but the amount of users has increased.
nice.
Factually incorrect across the U.S. in legal states.
I tend to agree, but not for the typical reason...
I'm a cynic. Legal weed opens the door to a new industry with all the worst aspects of big pharma and big tobacco all rolled up into one.
What could possibly go wrong?
Sounds like the problem is capitalism then. Not weed.
Much less of an issue, so long as they also legalize home growers.
Any legalization will lead to the profitization of marijuana. Even if home growing is legal, that will first be marketed as a problem in comparison to good old fashioned, chemical laced, corporate weed. Then either lobbied away. The cynic has himself wrong, he is just observant.
Sick people getting what they need?
Sick people being bled dry by the new big pharma... big weed.
I cannot agree there. I have yet to find a pharmaceutical that works as a better pain modifier. Believe me, I have tried. If I was not using it, I would be far less able to get through a day. And I pay less for it than I do my other pills on a per-day basis. My neurologist is fully aware of this too.
l get it, I really do, but you have to understand the cannabis industry at this point is in it's infancy.
I'm thinking 50-60 years down the line where home grown is pushed out by the weed equivalent of Marlboro and big companies are using crossbreeding to make their weed more addictive, just like big tobacco did.
What I'm saying is, I don't trust this new industry to not go down the road that big pharma and big tobacco did.
And now he's out of my library.
"This is informative and unfortunate."
Finally we agree.