I know it's not a very hip position right now but I think the incoming administration will turn out to be mostly hype. They'll get bogged down trying to get the blue states to comply with some insane piece of legislation on something with no federal jurisdiction, and blame their failure to do anything on that.
I'm sorry, but that sounds like copium to me. Why would this fascist authoritarian regime be less successful than all of the other big fascist authoritarian regimes in history? They don't care about the law.
They already had to drop Gaetz as a nominee. Likely because too many R senators said nah.
While I’m not going to say this will happen with all the other crazy proposals. If some Copium helps us get through the next 2 years minimum, and we can stay in the fight, maybe we can hold on to this place.
Even fentanyl works on pain for a while, let’s just hope the country isn’t in hospice yet.
I instinctively downvoted this because 'copium' is one of those load words that carries distain without engagement. Why? Because they usually are unsuccessful. They usually fizzle out. Some authoritarian regimes achieve weight and have a war, but that's not always the case. UKs govt was borderline insane for, like, 8 years and that's kinda mellowed now. France has had its flirtations, but it never really stuck. And ultimately I'm an optimist. And the word 'copium' is just short hand for 'optimists are naive and wrong' which... feels unwarranted to me
Yeah well fair play. I think you're cynical, wrong, and actively increasing the probability of your unwanted outcome coming to pass by your language, so I guess we both just very strongly disagree with each other. But at least we can do it politely so at least there's some hope.
I'm thinking similarly and that the Democrats will use the Senate filibuster to block as many things as they can. Of course, conservatives may end up changing the filibuster and ram through all their terrible policies, then they'd only have until the midterms to pass all the crazy stuff they want to pass. Unless they figure out an illegitimate way to stay in power and go full fascist authoritarian on us. No matter what, the next few years are gonna be terrible.
Rounding up immigrants (lets not pretend they’ll be checking documents) will destroy agricultural corps and one of the US’ largest exports
Not if they take advantage of private prison structures in which prisoners are already paid like 0.15 cents to do agricultural labor in places like georgia.
The rest of this shit is maybe hype depending on the level at which it actually ends up hurting corporations. Elon's part of the circle because he wants the tariffs because he can't compete with BYD in any market they've been competing in, and he wants to foreclose things like the EV tax credits so nobody else can come up and usurp his position at the top of the market. I'm sure there are plenty of other tariffs that american corporations would be in favor of. The domestic US auto industry basically only exists in the form it does, influencing infrastructure and tons of other shit, because of the chicken tax, which was some random protectionist legislation in the 60's.
Tax cuts will increase inflation for the bottom class, and cost of living, and probably every other metric, but nobody gives a fuck about that.
And I'm not sure to what degree the real estate market will be affected by domestic US military interventionism seeing as how we've already had a couple high profile marches and protests over the last 20 years that have had pretty outsized police and national guard responses, and the real estate market has done nothing but go up basically. Both up in value, and upwards into the hands of mass property management corporations and landlords.
I know everyone's trying to stay optimistic about the sort of, incompetence of the trump regime, and the degree to which this is all just hype and drivel meant to drive the turnout of his base. I'm sure plenty of it is hype, but I'm also sure plenty of it isn't. He still ended up appointing those supreme court justices, which has already fucked over an incredibly large proportion of stuff, and will probably fuck over everything for the next couple decades, since nobody's gonna have enough of a spine to even threaten packing the court.
Regardless of party! Because we’re such a great country full of decadence that we have not one but two pro capitalist pro imperialism pro forever war parties!
If there are stalls with doors in the bathroom, then mind your own damn business if someone is in there. If there aren't, then it's an issue with the facility that should be fixed so anyone using them has privacy. Why are Republicans so concerned about what people do on the toilet or in the bedroom?
"Women may get attacked by trans people" says the party who by far has the larger list of offenders. Clean your own house.
You know what, aren't American stalls notorious for giant gaps in them? Maybe if they fixed that and had better stalls things like this may smooth over better. Unless that stereotype of American bathrooms is outdated or not actually the norm
Worse, my high school had no doors on the bathroom stalls at all (at least in the boys' room). I'm guessing it was some sort of "we don't want to catch you masturbating" sort of thing but I would almost always just hold any shitting I had to do in unless I was in drama class because the auditorium had bathrooms with doors.
It varies, sometimes you find places that are designed better than others. I can only assume the two reasons are cost (less material) and easier to mass clean. Not designed for the users.
Anyone being abused in any way in a bathroom by anyone is a crime and should be reported and prosecuted. What you'll find is not what Republicans are trying to sell to get votes. It even falls under the projection label, so the ones calling for action should probably be watched closer for their own actions towards other people.
These people are obsessed with people's genitals. Just go to the fucking bathroom. Must you go out of your way to make even taking a shit in public more uncomfortable than it needs to be?
What if they’re a grower not a shower? How do we sort this out we talking flaccid or erect? Can half these congress critters even get an erection without chemical help?
I'm still trying to figure out what these people [Republicans] are doing in the bathroom. I probably don't want to know.
All can say is, when I'm trying to pee in a public restroom, I don't really give a shit who's in the stall next to me. I don't care what their gender is. I don't care what their birth gender was. I'm just trying to do my business and get on with my day.
But if they don't wish me good luck, I don't want to be taking a crap next to them. Sometimes you need that emotional support on the crapper, you know?
I don't care who is with me in the bathroom. I'm not there to make friends. I wouldn't care if either Nancy Mace or Donald Trump was in the stall next to me.
Just don't talk to me unless it's an emergency, that's all I ask.
So funny what issues the conservative fossil fuel media comes up with to avoid any climate actions. People discussing genitals before extinction definitely show how Darwinism was right. Humanity will die of stupidity.
Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I'm a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don't have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who "believes being a woman".
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a "Trans" issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against "locker room" talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won't, because you are a coward. It's just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a 'belief' based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being "clocked" by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don't automatically feel comfortable using the gent's washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn't designed for us. Trans women I know who don't seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there's an individual third non gendered option that's often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women's spaces even if they don't hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don't have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don't find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women's washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn't a path of least resistance move. It's not that we "believe" we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we're doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don't keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women's room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution... But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women's room then more than likely that's a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren't permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Yeah back in the day (idk if it still is I’m just really post transition) switching bathrooms was a right of passing (heh). It was done when you started getting stares in the old bathroom. I last used a men’s room back in college when I was at a urinal (it was late and I was in a hurry) and a guy came in, saw me, walked out, then came back in, clearly having had to check the sign on the door. It’s been many years since, I’m nearing 10 years on hormones and 4 post bottom surgery and I look somewhere between androgynous and female. I get misgendered sometimes but I’ve had coworkers comment on my menses. And the thing is, I’ve met cis women who look more trans than I do.
I dunno if it is much a right of passage as it used to be. Where I am we've had bathroom freedom for a long while now and since we have a larger than usual trans population (Vancouver BC) folk transition bathroom use a little earlier than double take type passing but like anybody who crosses into the other side at minimum definitely looks properly trans. Abroad I have been bodily chased out of bathrooms by women when I was younger and passed for more androgynous even though I am an AFAB who never went on T. I ended up using the gents for awhile just because it meant nobody tried to clock me in the head with a purse but like... it sucked worrying that someone would clock me the other direction while I was waiting for a stall. Never personally happened so I never figured out how that experience shakes out but I was definitely trying to lay low.
Even with it being a city that puts "trans people welcome" over the bathrooms us enbies / non physically transitioned folk tend to have a pretty brutal self assessment of how we clock before we pick which restroom to take. It's really sucky how people take the whole "We don't owe you presentation" quote to infer like the way we personally choose to present doesn't actually factor into how we make choices or navigate the world... Like we still don't want to make people uncomfortable! Half of us enbies are so socially anxious that causing social friction gives us the bloody horrors and we accommodate other people at our own expense more often than not.
Like really... It boggles the mind how so many straights seem to think we operate as some kind of all powerful gender authoritarians who can force people to unquestioningly not even glance at us sideways or else we trot them to the censorship guillotine!
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I'm a woman
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women's bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women's restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you'd piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn't notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let's take your example and flip it - say you're a trans dude, now you're a man going into the women's restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women's restroom, that's what this is doing.
And as a woman (admittedly a trans woman, but I bet my cis friends feel the same) we’d rather that than slip on piss. Shit happens, but it’s best to make sure it happens in there
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It's literally the same energy as "if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!" Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
I didn't down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet "laws", except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet "configurations" within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now "Diverse/Neutral" too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it's very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend.... a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it's a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
To what end? To pee? Who cares? Go ahead. When the line's too long at one, people regularly duck into the free restroom in an emergency anyway. If you have to go, just go.
If someone goes into a public restroom with the intention of harming someone inside, it doesn't matter what gender any of them are, or what they look like, or which bathroom it is. None of that matters. Don't go into a bathroom with the intention of harming someone. That's wrong. The end.
I love the way Alamo Drafthouse in Texas did this. Each stall is a fully walled environment and there's a long sinkway for everyone. No one gives a shit that it's male and female together.
There is or was a bar and restaurant in Pensacola FL that tricked people into going into the wrong restroom if you weren't paying attention and/or drunk. It was funny and there was no panic or outrage.
I was in a bathroom the other day with a messed up toilet paper dispenser. I didn't notice until a woman sat in the stall next to me and I turned my head to just see full cleavage perfectly centered through this massive like 5x5 inch gap. Most uncomfortable pee of my life.
Worth noting, this was a massive bathroom with like 30 stalls and 3 people currently in it and she chose to sit right next to me :(. It ain't just urinals, guys.
Back home we do actually use a "toilet" label for bathrooms with only toilets. Needless to say, my first visit to America made quite a few laughs when I asked where the toilets are so I can wash me hands.
I like how we sometimes call them "restrooms." I don't know what y'all are doing in there, but I certainly ain't resting. I'm usually fighting for my life if I actually am using a public toilet instead of waiting to get home.
In US introductory psychology courses, one common assignment is to deliberately violate some unwritten social norm. Something that is never stated anywhere, but we all just customarily follow. My favorite example is, while visiting a friend's house, ask if you can use their bathroom. When they say yes, go to their bathroom and take a bath.
Reminds me of a comedian who said he likes the European way and started asking "where is the toilet?" in the US. People stared at him saying "In the bathroom".
I like showing people who claim women don't want to change in locker rooms with trans women because it makes them so uncomfortable and that locker rooms should only be for "real" women photos of the most manly-looking, muscle-bound AFAB men I can find and ask them to tell me if they think women would be comfortable changing in front of those men.
I have yet to get a yes.
The answer to "where do they expect trans people to go" is "nowhere. Hide or die."
We should be prepared for a fight on that front. The current uproar is about trans women. Put a trans man in power (anywhere) and the shit is really going to hit the fan. The rhetoric will shift from pseudo-sexualized bathroom nonsense to "how dare you disrupt our patriarchy."
Transphobia both currently and for basically the last 50 years at least has always been framed and rooted in the idea of protecting women from predatory "men". Trans men have been a footnote, at most and I doubt one becoming prominent will have the impact you expect.
I find it incredible that global warming is skyrocketing, debt is skyrocketing, we have all sorts of existential political and health issues and the thing people worry about is...
Trans people in bathrooms.
Like, what the heck?
Even if I was anti-trans (and I am not), why would I lose so much sleep over that? What's gonna happen, I see what looks like the opposite sex in the bathroom and my head explodes?
Even racial segregation made slightly more sense because actual societal segregation was the existing state, precedent, and public consensus (as horrible as it was) but... trans people are already mixed into the public?
Climate change and wealth inequality are the reason for the hate campaign. If you can make politics about minorities you can make it not about the rich people and rich countries paying their share to deal with current issues. My siblings and I’s rights and blood is the price to keep the ultra wealthy in their private jets without fear that the people their climate actions kill will revolt and they won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.
They lack the ability to apply critical thought and effort towards real problems and it's apparently an appealing political trait for the average American voter
Democrats should hire a staffer to stand outside of the women bathroom at the capital and have them accuse every GOP women of being a man before they go to the bathroom.
They want to play these games? Let's show them what their crazy looks like
Shows who paid attention during school. You can have XY chromosomes and be born with a vagina, no genitalia, or both. You can have XX chromosomes and be born with a penis, no genitalia, or both. So biological women doesn't mean anything in the context they are using it.
They are just using whatever word was written on a birth certificate. This doesn't reflect gender (that's in your head), sex (genetics). Basically they are using genital appearance at birth as a proxy for gender. And assuming it was recorded correctly.
Have you watched Hidden Figures? There's a point in the movie where having different "colored" restrooms (at NASA in the 1960s) comes into play and... well, the resolution is pretty satisfying.
Which just makes this whole thing even more nonsensical and confusing since androids don't have the need to expel waste the way humans do, and thus would not need to use a restroom.
Technically, that would depend on what would power the android. An android that gets energy from processing human food would work pretty well and there is sci-fi precedent for it- androids in the Aliens films eat food.
That said, I would hope they would have a more efficient way to get rid of that food waste than humans, so maybe they wouldn't need bathrooms.
I will continue to ask these morons if they’ve ever heard of homosexuality. There have been people attracted to other people they see in the bathroom since people started peeing together. Gender does not define sexuality, and neither gender nor sexuality define pedophilia.
To them homosexuality is a disease too. This one is just easier for them to justify at the moment. Once this battle is won they'll absolutely move onto non hetero sexualities.
The only reason trans rights are a big topic now is because they started losing the war against homosexuality and so they found themselves an easier target instead.
yknow its funny, because if you really wanted to, you could argue that the very pretense of being trans is a biological factor, since there must be something beyond what is just "social norms and rules" determing gender. Such that trans people are technically, biological women.
Just not physically. So the correct way to write this would actually be "women determined to be such as by the definition of the classical physical definition, plus the correspondingly accurate neurotypical construction that tends to align with the concept of a woman more broadly"
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
Trans people change frequently are changing their biology to match their gender.
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
FOREWARNING: highly philosophical bits incoming. Don't read into anything i say too heavily lol.
this was my argument exactly, except a little bit backwards. I think people are in some capacity, a little bit too focused on the physical nature of things, because the physical body is quite literally not the determining factor here. It's also a bit of the paradoxical nature of gender dysphoria.
My argument basically TL;DRs into "trans people are actually physically separated from their birth sex, rather than mentally separated from their physical birth sex"
the only reason the physical body is relevant here is because i consider it similar to other physical deformations. At birth or not, the physical body is not perfect, biology is not perfect, whether or not the physical sex or the neurological sex developed independently of the other is entirely irrelevant to what the actual perceived sex of the individual is. If we're going to take one source as the true source, it's probably not going to be the physical one, for various reasons, it's going to be the neurological one.
The very fact that the existence of this separation causing problems with things like dysphoria, i think demonstrates that it is not the physical concept that matters, it is the neurological one.
TL;DR TL;DR if we're going to adhere to an authoritative source of what determines the gender/neurological sex of an individual, following the neurological path seems like both, the path of least resistance, and most likely functional outcome you could come to. Both because neurology is very confusing and difficult (otherwise this would be a solved problem, one way or the other) and also because the body is inherently imperfect, and relatively trivial to adapt.
I really just don't think there's any legitimacy in the physical body in this context, even though it's a huge pain point, i would argue that's a secondary effect of the neurological function, rather than a primary function of the experience itself. I could theoretically get a full sex reassignment surgery. Which might change my physical appearance, but there's very little that would do for my neurological existence. Therefore, i would argue i am still my original gender, even though my sex has changed. I.E. trans people, are by default the correct gender, their physical sex for whatever reason, is separated from their gender, causing the issue. Therefore you cannot conceptualize this issue as a "mental dysfunction" at all, completely destroying the entire conservative conceptualization of trans people.
I don't think so. Seems like KTI was talking specifically about trans women being neurologically female (and neurology is part of biology). I'm talking about the rest of the body also being female.
My interpretation is that they were saying that the argument of trying to force people into the gender roles assigned to them based on some sort of physical attribute is dumb. And that the argument could easily be used against itself because trans people being the gender they feel is correct simply because their need to be such is a part of their physiology.
I think the example of trans women was not an attempt to limit this logic simply to them, but was just a method of communicating the idea.
I could be wrong, though. I may have just been reading it optimistically in how I'd want it to be.
As for limitation of bounds, it's a way to communicate the idea without bloating the workings of it heavily (i could get into the weeds, but those are irrelevant when talking about a macro-system)
as for trans women specifically, it was probably just cuz the thread was based on women lmao.
I wasn't disagreeing with that part of the argument or suggesting that were limiting the discussion to trans women for nefarious reasons. I was only disagreeing with the quoted part. Biological sex is also a social construct, so the whole topic of physically being a man or woman biologically is still in the same realm of thought as race science, so I think the topic is sort of questionable to bring up at all. But even if we want to follow that logical, some trans women have far more in common with their body with a cis women who have had a hysterectomy that they do with cis men.
I'm also not suggesting that trans women need medical interventions to be women. Just that if you tried to assume some logic to actions of transphobes (your biggest mistake), then even if you excluded neurological biological reasons, then biological sex should still allow those that meet the transmeds/truscums BS ideas at least, yet transphobes still take issue. Biological here is just a dog whistle.
Also not suggesting that said person would necessary disagree - my goal was just to add to the topic.
i disagree with this conceptualization. I would argue that biological sex has a relevant social construct to aid it's conceptualization. Gender norms and roles would be an extension of this.
I think biological sex is a function of the human organism.
so I think the topic is sort of questionable to bring up at all.
maybe, but i'm operating strictly in a philosophical sense here, so it's not like i'm arguing that people don't physically exist at all or anything, essentially just making the argument that the physical existence is irrelevant to the argument because there is a much better argument in the form of this conceptualization.
some trans women have far more in common with their body with a cis women who have had a hysterectomy that they do with cis men.
while this is true, i question the relevancy in making this as a logical argument, i could argue that a human has more in common with a banana than with a meteor for example. I'm just not convinced that the physical existence matters all that much in this case.
I’m also not suggesting that trans women need medical interventions to be women.
i don't think you are, but i question whether or not this provides some level of subconscious restriction to the concept at hand. Relevant or not, it may not even matter at the end of the day. That's not really something i've spent a lot of time thinking about, logically though, it heavily restricts how you can conceptualize things. Which you could argue is the human framework i suppose. We are humans at the end of the day.
Just that if you tried to assume some logic to actions of transphobes (your biggest mistake)
i'm not, there's not point, i'm essentially arguing that their entire conception of the issue is fundamentally flawed and cannot work. And that people spend too much time missing the forest for the tree in front of them.
Also not suggesting that said person would necessary disagree - my goal was just to add to the topic.
i always appreciate in depth discussion about things, it's a good way to learn things.
If you had transition surgery and therefor you couldn't make use of a urinal, could you make the argument that the bathrooms are not fair and equal for you and therefor unconstitutional?
The same word for a trans female human. Did you think that was a slam dunk lol
Y'all are the same as those in 30's Germany who turned on all mentally ill, gay, disabled and Jewish. You just exist today instead. You are the same kind of person
“I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler. How’s that for discouraging?”
JD Vance
‘You know, Hitler did some good things, too,’
Donald J. Trump
"I need the kind of generals that Hitler had"
Donald J. Trump
Why are you people so willing to pull the wool over your own eyes? It's right in front of you, they are admitting to being Nazis publicly. Why is it that you think swastika flags are flown at Trump events??
You tried to make it seem like bringing up Hitler is some sort of cheap attack.
My point is showing you those quotes is that it is not something they are being called, it is something they are calling themselves. They are aiming to have an administration similar to Adolf Hitler's and they have admitted as much as out loud.
Don't even try that bullshit, argue like an adult not some sort of gas-lighting teenager
I don't understand why it's necessary for trans people to have a specific place for them to go, like, at all. We have been using public bathrooms for the last hundred years. It's never been a problem before, and it's not a problem now. This entire thing is manufactured outrage about a problem that doesn't exist.
The way I see it there are only two realistic outcomes. We either let all women use the women's bathroom (crazy concept) or we have the gender neutral communal bathroom/showers from Starship Troopers.
Edit: I will leave the original comment, but as I realized after a conversation in this thread, unclear humor in dark times is in poor taste. I don't support either sign, and I deeply want everyone to be able to freely express who they are and how they feel without discrimination or fear. Things are scary for our trans relations, and now is not the time to be unclear about one's support. My apologies.
Thanks to @[email protected] for their understanding and generosity of spirit for taking the time to state what should have been obvious to me. Honest mistake yall.
You can't win em all. But, yes, I realize that. I didn't put a ton of thought into it. In general, that's fine. But right now, when our trans and non-binary friends and family are under siege and lives are at risk, I will try to be more thoughtful. I reserve the right to make jokes that land poorly and ill-timed sarcasm, but I'll try to do it less often on topics that relate to people that have increasing fear for their lives and well being.
I agree, my apologies. I was just finding the post ugly and absurd, and I was flippant with my sarcasm, so I commented while I was walking without much thought.
But I agree with you. These are times to be clear and direct about being an ally. It's reasonable and justified to be suspicious when the stakes are high and the world seems dark.
I'd love for a bearded trans man to walk in there, look her dead in the eye and tell her not to worry, he has a vagina.
The law binds but does not protect us.
This is messed up. Do they not want trans people to use any bathrooms?
Hot take I know, but that’s a bit fucked
Correct, the goal is to eliminate trans people from public life.
They literally want trans genocide.
https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/human-rights-campaign-extremists-at-cpac-laid-bare-hatred-at-root-of-vile-legislation-targeting-trans-people
No, no they do not.
Republicans will use anything to generate outrage and distract from the constant war they wage on the working class
The biggest winners of this US elections are the corporations
we'll see. Media companies, gas companies and private prisons for sure win here, other corporations may suffer if they enact most of these policies:
Invading cities with the US military will destroy real estate markets. My guess is this is a bluff.
Rounding up immigrants (lets not pretend they'll be checking documents) will destroy agricultural corps and one of the US' largest exports
Tariffs will drastically damage consumer spending and costs for electronics (which will indirectly hike data center costs).
Tax cuts will radically increase inflation again.
I know it's not a very hip position right now but I think the incoming administration will turn out to be mostly hype. They'll get bogged down trying to get the blue states to comply with some insane piece of legislation on something with no federal jurisdiction, and blame their failure to do anything on that.
I'm sorry, but that sounds like copium to me. Why would this fascist authoritarian regime be less successful than all of the other big fascist authoritarian regimes in history? They don't care about the law.
They already had to drop Gaetz as a nominee. Likely because too many R senators said nah.
While I’m not going to say this will happen with all the other crazy proposals. If some Copium helps us get through the next 2 years minimum, and we can stay in the fight, maybe we can hold on to this place.
Even fentanyl works on pain for a while, let’s just hope the country isn’t in hospice yet.
I instinctively downvoted this because 'copium' is one of those load words that carries distain without engagement. Why? Because they usually are unsuccessful. They usually fizzle out. Some authoritarian regimes achieve weight and have a war, but that's not always the case. UKs govt was borderline insane for, like, 8 years and that's kinda mellowed now. France has had its flirtations, but it never really stuck. And ultimately I'm an optimist. And the word 'copium' is just short hand for 'optimists are naive and wrong' which... feels unwarranted to me
I'm sorry, but I feel that optimism, in this case, is both naïve and wrong.
That is not a word I generally throw freely around.
Yeah well fair play. I think you're cynical, wrong, and actively increasing the probability of your unwanted outcome coming to pass by your language, so I guess we both just very strongly disagree with each other. But at least we can do it politely so at least there's some hope.
I mean they have the presidency, the house, the Senate, and the supreme court, gonna be difficult to lay the blame.
They had the same situation the first two years of Trump's first presidency. The blame did no good.
Mostly what saved us before was the incompetence, and that's already rearing its head again. Stupid thing to rely upon, though.
Fair point
I'm thinking similarly and that the Democrats will use the Senate filibuster to block as many things as they can. Of course, conservatives may end up changing the filibuster and ram through all their terrible policies, then they'd only have until the midterms to pass all the crazy stuff they want to pass. Unless they figure out an illegitimate way to stay in power and go full fascist authoritarian on us. No matter what, the next few years are gonna be terrible.
Not if they take advantage of private prison structures in which prisoners are already paid like 0.15 cents to do agricultural labor in places like georgia.
The rest of this shit is maybe hype depending on the level at which it actually ends up hurting corporations. Elon's part of the circle because he wants the tariffs because he can't compete with BYD in any market they've been competing in, and he wants to foreclose things like the EV tax credits so nobody else can come up and usurp his position at the top of the market. I'm sure there are plenty of other tariffs that american corporations would be in favor of. The domestic US auto industry basically only exists in the form it does, influencing infrastructure and tons of other shit, because of the chicken tax, which was some random protectionist legislation in the 60's.
Tax cuts will increase inflation for the bottom class, and cost of living, and probably every other metric, but nobody gives a fuck about that.
And I'm not sure to what degree the real estate market will be affected by domestic US military interventionism seeing as how we've already had a couple high profile marches and protests over the last 20 years that have had pretty outsized police and national guard responses, and the real estate market has done nothing but go up basically. Both up in value, and upwards into the hands of mass property management corporations and landlords.
I know everyone's trying to stay optimistic about the sort of, incompetence of the trump regime, and the degree to which this is all just hype and drivel meant to drive the turnout of his base. I'm sure plenty of it is hype, but I'm also sure plenty of it isn't. He still ended up appointing those supreme court justices, which has already fucked over an incredibly large proportion of stuff, and will probably fuck over everything for the next couple decades, since nobody's gonna have enough of a spine to even threaten packing the court.
Regardless of party! Because we’re such a great country full of decadence that we have not one but two pro capitalist pro imperialism pro forever war parties!
"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them."
Yeah that was the quote I was trying to go for but couldn’t quite remember
I had to look it up...knew what you were thinking though!
If there are stalls with doors in the bathroom, then mind your own damn business if someone is in there. If there aren't, then it's an issue with the facility that should be fixed so anyone using them has privacy. Why are Republicans so concerned about what people do on the toilet or in the bedroom?
"Women may get attacked by trans people" says the party who by far has the larger list of offenders. Clean your own house.
You know what, aren't American stalls notorious for giant gaps in them? Maybe if they fixed that and had better stalls things like this may smooth over better. Unless that stereotype of American bathrooms is outdated or not actually the norm
Yes they are and I hate it.
Worse, my high school had no doors on the bathroom stalls at all (at least in the boys' room). I'm guessing it was some sort of "we don't want to catch you masturbating" sort of thing but I would almost always just hold any shitting I had to do in unless I was in drama class because the auditorium had bathrooms with doors.
It varies, sometimes you find places that are designed better than others. I can only assume the two reasons are cost (less material) and easier to mass clean. Not designed for the users.
Anyone being abused in any way in a bathroom by anyone is a crime and should be reported and prosecuted. What you'll find is not what Republicans are trying to sell to get votes. It even falls under the projection label, so the ones calling for action should probably be watched closer for their own actions towards other people.
Once again, every accusation is a confession.
These people are obsessed with people's genitals. Just go to the fucking bathroom. Must you go out of your way to make even taking a shit in public more uncomfortable than it needs to be?
Shut the fuck up and do your fucking job.
Insist on big dick and small dick bathrooms for guys. Really lean into it.
What if they’re a grower not a shower? How do we sort this out we talking flaccid or erect? Can half these congress critters even get an erection without chemical help?
Breaking News: House Republicans introduce bill to install Viagra dispensers in Capitol and House office building bathrooms
Many public restrooms in Iceland are unisex. These apes wouldn't last one road trip.
I'm still trying to figure out what these people [Republicans] are doing in the bathroom. I probably don't want to know. All can say is, when I'm trying to pee in a public restroom, I don't really give a shit who's in the stall next to me. I don't care what their gender is. I don't care what their birth gender was. I'm just trying to do my business and get on with my day.
But if they don't wish me good luck, I don't want to be taking a crap next to them. Sometimes you need that emotional support on the crapper, you know?
We know what Senator Larry Craig was doing in a stall with his wide stance.
I don't care who is with me in the bathroom. I'm not there to make friends. I wouldn't care if either Nancy Mace or Donald Trump was in the stall next to me.
Just don't talk to me unless it's an emergency, that's all I ask.
I would care. Trump stinks like shit and even though I'm in a bathroom, I only want to smell my own.
So funny what issues the conservative fossil fuel media comes up with to avoid any climate actions. People discussing genitals before extinction definitely show how Darwinism was right. Humanity will die of stupidity.
Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I'm a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don't have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who "believes being a woman".
People will exploit this.
The vast majority of pooping and being is done in gender neutral bathrooms. I've never been in a house that had gendered bathrooms.
OK
Do you? Who is currently stopping you?
Why would someone who wants to batter, rape or abuse another person be stopped by an unlocked door with a little cartoon sign on it?
Who stopping?
If I try that now - I'll get beat up if anyone sees me . Most likely cops called. Most likely immediate sex offender.
But if it's a trans bathrooms - the people that try to beat me up will be in the wrong and arrested for being transphobic.
That's total bullshit and you know it.
I'm so glad no trans person has ever been beat up because they were forced to use their birth-gender bathroom
Just a reminder: this shit is being peddled by the same people who call upon cis men to enter women's bathroom to "protect them from predators".
A predator doesn't need to identify as anything to walk into a bathroom. They just need to open the door and walk in.
AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? WHAT'S NEXT? MORE LITTER BOX DRAMA?
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a "Trans" issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against "locker room" talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won't, because you are a coward. It's just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
Hi, trans person here.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a 'belief' based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being "clocked" by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don't automatically feel comfortable using the gent's washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn't designed for us. Trans women I know who don't seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there's an individual third non gendered option that's often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women's spaces even if they don't hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don't have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don't find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women's washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn't a path of least resistance move. It's not that we "believe" we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we're doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don't keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women's room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution... But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women's room then more than likely that's a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren't permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Yeah back in the day (idk if it still is I’m just really post transition) switching bathrooms was a right of passing (heh). It was done when you started getting stares in the old bathroom. I last used a men’s room back in college when I was at a urinal (it was late and I was in a hurry) and a guy came in, saw me, walked out, then came back in, clearly having had to check the sign on the door. It’s been many years since, I’m nearing 10 years on hormones and 4 post bottom surgery and I look somewhere between androgynous and female. I get misgendered sometimes but I’ve had coworkers comment on my menses. And the thing is, I’ve met cis women who look more trans than I do.
I dunno if it is much a right of passage as it used to be. Where I am we've had bathroom freedom for a long while now and since we have a larger than usual trans population (Vancouver BC) folk transition bathroom use a little earlier than double take type passing but like anybody who crosses into the other side at minimum definitely looks properly trans. Abroad I have been bodily chased out of bathrooms by women when I was younger and passed for more androgynous even though I am an AFAB who never went on T. I ended up using the gents for awhile just because it meant nobody tried to clock me in the head with a purse but like... it sucked worrying that someone would clock me the other direction while I was waiting for a stall. Never personally happened so I never figured out how that experience shakes out but I was definitely trying to lay low.
Even with it being a city that puts "trans people welcome" over the bathrooms us enbies / non physically transitioned folk tend to have a pretty brutal self assessment of how we clock before we pick which restroom to take. It's really sucky how people take the whole "We don't owe you presentation" quote to infer like the way we personally choose to present doesn't actually factor into how we make choices or navigate the world... Like we still don't want to make people uncomfortable! Half of us enbies are so socially anxious that causing social friction gives us the bloody horrors and we accommodate other people at our own expense more often than not.
Like really... It boggles the mind how so many straights seem to think we operate as some kind of all powerful gender authoritarians who can force people to unquestioningly not even glance at us sideways or else we trot them to the censorship guillotine!
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women's bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women's restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you'd piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn't notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let's take your example and flip it - say you're a trans dude, now you're a man going into the women's restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women's restroom, that's what this is doing.
And as a woman (admittedly a trans woman, but I bet my cis friends feel the same) we’d rather that than slip on piss. Shit happens, but it’s best to make sure it happens in there
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It's literally the same energy as "if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!" Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
I didn't down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet "laws", except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet "configurations" within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now "Diverse/Neutral" too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it's very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend.... a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it's a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
Edit: Lots of typos...
To what end? To pee? Who cares? Go ahead. When the line's too long at one, people regularly duck into the free restroom in an emergency anyway. If you have to go, just go.
If someone goes into a public restroom with the intention of harming someone inside, it doesn't matter what gender any of them are, or what they look like, or which bathroom it is. None of that matters. Don't go into a bathroom with the intention of harming someone. That's wrong. The end.
Yes you can!
The never ending tradition of conservatives always looking for someone to hate.
If bathrooms were properly designed instead of having half walls that don't even meet, I doubt people would care nearly as much.
They'd find a reason to care because this is about maintaining patriarchy and queerphobia.
I love the way Alamo Drafthouse in Texas did this. Each stall is a fully walled environment and there's a long sinkway for everyone. No one gives a shit that it's male and female together.
There is or was a bar and restaurant in Pensacola FL that tricked people into going into the wrong restroom if you weren't paying attention and/or drunk. It was funny and there was no panic or outrage.
I've seen restaurants do the same thing. Nobody looks at anyone twice. It's perfect
I was in a bathroom the other day with a messed up toilet paper dispenser. I didn't notice until a woman sat in the stall next to me and I turned my head to just see full cleavage perfectly centered through this massive like 5x5 inch gap. Most uncomfortable pee of my life.
Worth noting, this was a massive bathroom with like 30 stalls and 3 people currently in it and she chose to sit right next to me :(. It ain't just urinals, guys.
removes sign entirely
BATHROOM
"There, y'all figure it out."
"This sign is bullshit. There's no baths in that room! Just a bunch of sinks and toilets!"
Back home we do actually use a "toilet" label for bathrooms with only toilets. Needless to say, my first visit to America made quite a few laughs when I asked where the toilets are so I can wash me hands.
I like how we sometimes call them "restrooms." I don't know what y'all are doing in there, but I certainly ain't resting. I'm usually fighting for my life if I actually am using a public toilet instead of waiting to get home.
You don't enjoy relaxing by reading the shampoo bottle?
I'm the opposite, I shit loudly to assert my dominance over everyone else in the bathroom.
In US introductory psychology courses, one common assignment is to deliberately violate some unwritten social norm. Something that is never stated anywhere, but we all just customarily follow. My favorite example is, while visiting a friend's house, ask if you can use their bathroom. When they say yes, go to their bathroom and take a bath.
Absolutely fucking beautiful!
Reminds me of a comedian who said he likes the European way and started asking "where is the toilet?" in the US. People stared at him saying "In the bathroom".
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtc4vcPfMk
The sinks are a bath if ya try hard enough.
Canadian here, don't people just call it a washroom?
ever notice trans men don't have this problem?
We absolutely do, even if you don’t hear about it as often.
I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you for opening up
Of course, Men are expected to deal with their own issues so being this fragile isn't going to be plastered all over the media.
In my experience it’s the men who are the most fragile.
Yes, but we're not allowed to talk about it
I like showing people who claim women don't want to change in locker rooms with trans women because it makes them so uncomfortable and that locker rooms should only be for "real" women photos of the most manly-looking, muscle-bound AFAB men I can find and ask them to tell me if they think women would be comfortable changing in front of those men.
I have yet to get a yes.
The answer to "where do they expect trans people to go" is "nowhere. Hide or die."
If trans-men wouldn't endanger themselves by doing this, I would encourage them to chill in women toilets.
But they shouldn't put themselves in harm's way just to prove a point.
We should just treat them right and protect them from this nonsense.
We should be prepared for a fight on that front. The current uproar is about trans women. Put a trans man in power (anywhere) and the shit is really going to hit the fan. The rhetoric will shift from pseudo-sexualized bathroom nonsense to "how dare you disrupt our patriarchy."
Transphobia both currently and for basically the last 50 years at least has always been framed and rooted in the idea of protecting women from predatory "men". Trans men have been a footnote, at most and I doubt one becoming prominent will have the impact you expect.
I find it incredible that global warming is skyrocketing, debt is skyrocketing, we have all sorts of existential political and health issues and the thing people worry about is...
Trans people in bathrooms.
Like, what the heck?
Even if I was anti-trans (and I am not), why would I lose so much sleep over that? What's gonna happen, I see what looks like the opposite sex in the bathroom and my head explodes?
Even racial segregation made slightly more sense because actual societal segregation was the existing state, precedent, and public consensus (as horrible as it was) but... trans people are already mixed into the public?
Climate change and wealth inequality are the reason for the hate campaign. If you can make politics about minorities you can make it not about the rich people and rich countries paying their share to deal with current issues. My siblings and I’s rights and blood is the price to keep the ultra wealthy in their private jets without fear that the people their climate actions kill will revolt and they won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.
They lack the ability to apply critical thought and effort towards real problems and it's apparently an appealing political trait for the average American voter
Democrats should hire a staffer to stand outside of the women bathroom at the capital and have them accuse every GOP women of being a man before they go to the bathroom.
They want to play these games? Let's show them what their crazy looks like
Need a big scary FTM trans man with a beard to loiter in the women's washroom because they have a vagina downstairs.
It's all about the "biology" right??
Shows who paid attention during school. You can have XY chromosomes and be born with a vagina, no genitalia, or both. You can have XX chromosomes and be born with a penis, no genitalia, or both. So biological women doesn't mean anything in the context they are using it.
They are just using whatever word was written on a birth certificate. This doesn't reflect gender (that's in your head), sex (genetics). Basically they are using genital appearance at birth as a proxy for gender. And assuming it was recorded correctly.
Just unisex the thing. They get a lesson in tolerance and everyone gets equal treatment.
Unisex bathrooms or bust
With actually private toilets. Let everyone defecate in peace. We can share the sinks if we must.
This sounds good in theory but most women I know want to have their own bathroom. Unless it's like one person at a time deal.
Last night I was thinking about the Sarah McBride situation and it got me thinking.
"I wonder if the first black person in congress was told he had to use the Colored Room?"
She just needs to pee!
Have you watched Hidden Figures? There's a point in the movie where having different "colored" restrooms (at NASA in the 1960s) comes into play and... well, the resolution is pretty satisfying.
If you're not running a positronic neural network then you're a biological woman
Which just makes this whole thing even more nonsensical and confusing since androids don't have the need to expel waste the way humans do, and thus would not need to use a restroom.
Technically, that would depend on what would power the android. An android that gets energy from processing human food would work pretty well and there is sci-fi precedent for it- androids in the Aliens films eat food.
That said, I would hope they would have a more efficient way to get rid of that food waste than humans, so maybe they wouldn't need bathrooms.
Maybe they can recycle the raw material like a replicator can recycle raw material.
Are you saying Data isn't a man? Because he's-
I will continue to ask these morons if they’ve ever heard of homosexuality. There have been people attracted to other people they see in the bathroom since people started peeing together. Gender does not define sexuality, and neither gender nor sexuality define pedophilia.
To them homosexuality is a disease too. This one is just easier for them to justify at the moment. Once this battle is won they'll absolutely move onto non hetero sexualities.
The only reason trans rights are a big topic now is because they started losing the war against homosexuality and so they found themselves an easier target instead.
And they will go back to homosexuality as soon as they can.
They're already talking about it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/thomas-wants-supreme-court-overturn-landmark-rulings-legalized-contrac-rcna35228
Yup. Pretty good indicator of a significant regress being made.
I mean if she wants us to break her legs, who are we really to deny her?
Until we figure out humanoid robots all people are biological and trans women are women, so....
yknow its funny, because if you really wanted to, you could argue that the very pretense of being trans is a biological factor, since there must be something beyond what is just "social norms and rules" determing gender. Such that trans people are technically, biological women.
Just not physically. So the correct way to write this would actually be "women determined to be such as by the definition of the classical physical definition, plus the correspondingly accurate neurotypical construction that tends to align with the concept of a woman more broadly"
just rolls right off of the tongue.
If we are gonna insist people have to be categorized into either biological male or female, a lot of trans women would most reasonably be placed into the female category and a lot of trans men into the male category.
Trans people change frequently are changing their biology to match their gender.
FOREWARNING: highly philosophical bits incoming. Don't read into anything i say too heavily lol.
this was my argument exactly, except a little bit backwards. I think people are in some capacity, a little bit too focused on the physical nature of things, because the physical body is quite literally not the determining factor here. It's also a bit of the paradoxical nature of gender dysphoria.
My argument basically TL;DRs into "trans people are actually physically separated from their birth sex, rather than mentally separated from their physical birth sex"
the only reason the physical body is relevant here is because i consider it similar to other physical deformations. At birth or not, the physical body is not perfect, biology is not perfect, whether or not the physical sex or the neurological sex developed independently of the other is entirely irrelevant to what the actual perceived sex of the individual is. If we're going to take one source as the true source, it's probably not going to be the physical one, for various reasons, it's going to be the neurological one.
The very fact that the existence of this separation causing problems with things like dysphoria, i think demonstrates that it is not the physical concept that matters, it is the neurological one.
TL;DR TL;DR if we're going to adhere to an authoritative source of what determines the gender/neurological sex of an individual, following the neurological path seems like both, the path of least resistance, and most likely functional outcome you could come to. Both because neurology is very confusing and difficult (otherwise this would be a solved problem, one way or the other) and also because the body is inherently imperfect, and relatively trivial to adapt.
I really just don't think there's any legitimacy in the physical body in this context, even though it's a huge pain point, i would argue that's a secondary effect of the neurological function, rather than a primary function of the experience itself. I could theoretically get a full sex reassignment surgery. Which might change my physical appearance, but there's very little that would do for my neurological existence. Therefore, i would argue i am still my original gender, even though my sex has changed. I.E. trans people, are by default the correct gender, their physical sex for whatever reason, is separated from their gender, causing the issue. Therefore you cannot conceptualize this issue as a "mental dysfunction" at all, completely destroying the entire conservative conceptualization of trans people.
I think that's what [email protected] was trying to say.
I don't think so. Seems like KTI was talking specifically about trans women being neurologically female (and neurology is part of biology). I'm talking about the rest of the body also being female.
My interpretation is that they were saying that the argument of trying to force people into the gender roles assigned to them based on some sort of physical attribute is dumb. And that the argument could easily be used against itself because trans people being the gender they feel is correct simply because their need to be such is a part of their physiology.
I think the example of trans women was not an attempt to limit this logic simply to them, but was just a method of communicating the idea.
I could be wrong, though. I may have just been reading it optimistically in how I'd want it to be.
this is pretty much exactly my thinking.
As for limitation of bounds, it's a way to communicate the idea without bloating the workings of it heavily (i could get into the weeds, but those are irrelevant when talking about a macro-system)
as for trans women specifically, it was probably just cuz the thread was based on women lmao.
I wasn't disagreeing with that part of the argument or suggesting that were limiting the discussion to trans women for nefarious reasons. I was only disagreeing with the quoted part. Biological sex is also a social construct, so the whole topic of physically being a man or woman biologically is still in the same realm of thought as race science, so I think the topic is sort of questionable to bring up at all. But even if we want to follow that logical, some trans women have far more in common with their body with a cis women who have had a hysterectomy that they do with cis men.
I'm also not suggesting that trans women need medical interventions to be women. Just that if you tried to assume some logic to actions of transphobes (your biggest mistake), then even if you excluded neurological biological reasons, then biological sex should still allow those that meet the transmeds/truscums BS ideas at least, yet transphobes still take issue. Biological here is just a dog whistle.
Also not suggesting that said person would necessary disagree - my goal was just to add to the topic.
i disagree with this conceptualization. I would argue that biological sex has a relevant social construct to aid it's conceptualization. Gender norms and roles would be an extension of this.
I think biological sex is a function of the human organism.
maybe, but i'm operating strictly in a philosophical sense here, so it's not like i'm arguing that people don't physically exist at all or anything, essentially just making the argument that the physical existence is irrelevant to the argument because there is a much better argument in the form of this conceptualization.
while this is true, i question the relevancy in making this as a logical argument, i could argue that a human has more in common with a banana than with a meteor for example. I'm just not convinced that the physical existence matters all that much in this case.
i don't think you are, but i question whether or not this provides some level of subconscious restriction to the concept at hand. Relevant or not, it may not even matter at the end of the day. That's not really something i've spent a lot of time thinking about, logically though, it heavily restricts how you can conceptualize things. Which you could argue is the human framework i suppose. We are humans at the end of the day.
i'm not, there's not point, i'm essentially arguing that their entire conception of the issue is fundamentally flawed and cannot work. And that people spend too much time missing the forest for the tree in front of them.
i always appreciate in depth discussion about things, it's a good way to learn things.
This Mace lady will do anything for attention. She once spray painted her own sidewalk to create a false flag antifa harassment narrative.
If you had transition surgery and therefor you couldn't make use of a urinal, could you make the argument that the bathrooms are not fair and equal for you and therefor unconstitutional?
I’m pretty sure men’s rooms have toilets in them, but it’s been several years since I’ve been in one so I’m not sure
She wants to diddle kids and this is her path to doing so
Menopause is going to be her karma.
Oh irrational fear and tribalistic othering, is there no asinine bullshit you won't stoop to, repeatedly?
isn't that special?/s.. Now you have to give a DNA sample to take piss. Too much trouble. I think I'll just go piss on your leg.
Biological cripples?
She looks like the kind of person that cusses you out when you get her order right.
The same word for a trans female human. Did you think that was a slam dunk lol
Y'all are the same as those in 30's Germany who turned on all mentally ill, gay, disabled and Jewish. You just exist today instead. You are the same kind of person
If you have to bring up Hitler...
You can't be serious.
“I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler. How’s that for discouraging?”
‘You know, Hitler did some good things, too,’
"I need the kind of generals that Hitler had"
Why are you people so willing to pull the wool over your own eyes? It's right in front of you, they are admitting to being Nazis publicly. Why is it that you think swastika flags are flown at Trump events??
You've swung so far from the original point and made this about Trump and Hitler for some reason. Hope you're okay.
You tried to make it seem like bringing up Hitler is some sort of cheap attack.
My point is showing you those quotes is that it is not something they are being called, it is something they are calling themselves. They are aiming to have an administration similar to Adolf Hitler's and they have admitted as much as out loud.
Don't even try that bullshit, argue like an adult not some sort of gas-lighting teenager
You completely changed the topic and chose Trump and Hitler. When all you have is a hammer...
Except not lol
I don't understand why it's necessary for trans people to have a specific place for them to go, like, at all. We have been using public bathrooms for the last hundred years. It's never been a problem before, and it's not a problem now. This entire thing is manufactured outrage about a problem that doesn't exist.
The way I see it there are only two realistic outcomes. We either let all women use the women's bathroom (crazy concept) or we have the gender neutral communal bathroom/showers from Starship Troopers.
Being trans is not a disability unless asshole bigots make it one.
Race isn't biological.
Edit: I will leave the original comment, but as I realized after a conversation in this thread, unclear humor in dark times is in poor taste. I don't support either sign, and I deeply want everyone to be able to freely express who they are and how they feel without discrimination or fear. Things are scary for our trans relations, and now is not the time to be unclear about one's support. My apologies.
Thanks to @[email protected] for their understanding and generosity of spirit for taking the time to state what should have been obvious to me. Honest mistake yall.
Neither is gender
Woooosh
I think my joke was too deep for you, sorry. Thanks for owning it.
“Anyone who doesn’t laugh is stupid.”
Bro your joke just didn’t land/wasn’t good. Don’t make this more embarrassing than it needs to be.
It's a lemmy thread, I'll be OK! I do appreciate your concern though.
It was so poorly executed that no one recognized it as a joke.
You can't win em all. But, yes, I realize that. I didn't put a ton of thought into it. In general, that's fine. But right now, when our trans and non-binary friends and family are under siege and lives are at risk, I will try to be more thoughtful. I reserve the right to make jokes that land poorly and ill-timed sarcasm, but I'll try to do it less often on topics that relate to people that have increasing fear for their lives and well being.
"I'm 14 and this is deep" 🤡
If you keep thinking you're hearing "dog whistles" everywhere, even among allies, you're going to slowly go bonkers.
I agree, my apologies. I was just finding the post ugly and absurd, and I was flippant with my sarcasm, so I commented while I was walking without much thought.
But I agree with you. These are times to be clear and direct about being an ally. It's reasonable and justified to be suspicious when the stakes are high and the world seems dark.
I still don't get it. How is it a joke?
I appreciate the edit.