Unless you have a plan already in motion that will institute STAR voting and fully educate the public on it in the next 12 days, you get to shut up until after Kamala has won.
Oh, I know this one! It s the hole in the barrel! Wait no, maybe it’s the woods…? Oh, no…ummmm. Oh it must be Jill Stein’s lack of policies and support of Putin’s interference in our government.
You know how to guarantee that you have no power? Don’t vote. Not voting is 100% the best way to screw yourself over and the worse a candidate is the more they’re hoping people with any kind of morals stay home.
Suck it up and vote. It sucks and needs to be better but not voting is such a bullshit stance that fails everyone.
It must be wild being that naive. You’re not clever, you’re handing an incredibly high amount of power to the people who want to use it to fuck you over basically for the fun of it.
You do need to do what you say but if you don’t vote because you’re too busy throwing a temper tantrum you’re going to find that organizing, under what will basically be a far-right dictatorship, will be…rather difficult.
Moderates are always first against the wall no matter who wins, but they tend to share their mass graves with the Anarchists who put them there. Don't be a useful idiot
You just said voting bad, so those alternatives are all going to inherently involve autocratic systems arising out of whatever "not voting" system you try to run with.
This plus the displayed disdain for the greater society you're intending to separate from indicates you will inherently be more likely to establish a cult under your model, be it Waco or Jim Jones, it will end up as a cult.
Voting is a system by which decisions are made by a large number of people. If you don't have a voting system, you can't have a functioning Society unless you have something like a dictatorship. Anarchism requires voting. Anarchists who pretend that everything needs to be done by absolute consensus are stupid, and are doomed to failure.
Yeah, that's why the people who's ideology is reinforcing the current power structure and reverting it to even worse times are so hell bent on sabotaging the vote.
Speaking against the tool of the proletariat to enact their will without having to fight a war for it every fucking time makes you nothing but a class traitor.
It is literally the main tool by which further democratic rights have been obtained in those western democracies, contrary to your giveaway scare quotes.
Be it by referenda, passage of law, or by constitutional amendment, every single advancement has been made through the organization of the proletariat as a voting block.
Stop being a fucking class traitor because you don't want to admit that sitting on your ass doesn't send any kind of message other than that you have done nothing for the working class.
Why are you downplaying voting? Yes, organizing strikes and many years ago larger movements created opportunities to pass monumental bills. Yet, there have been SO many laws and discussions since then that did not involve some form of violence or shutdown of some port. By voting together we can enact change. We create it through one voice. Even if our desires are different in the moment, we all want a better life. Why not take every advantage we can to make one?
"You hate democracy" -person who doesn't understand how FPTP in our kind of democracy isn't conducive to meaningful third-party voting without major voting reform
If you want to vote third party, then maybe make sure that it's viable first. Campaign in the long term, propose reform, gather grassroots support, etc. Simply voting third party in our current system does nothing.
THIS, 1,000%! Third Party doesn't have a huge presence in the USA, only because people don't do the work to get it there. It requires a lot of work that should be done just after the new sitting president is elected. Building a recognizable platform with proper support takes a lot of effort. It would be worth it, though, to truly support the people in ways which a two party system cannot. Holding the President and other people in power accountable with sensible words and meaningful action would get a party to gradually become a household name.
After I vote for Kamala, this is what I will be looking into. Finding a third party (one with aims to support everyone, no matter gender, sexuality, etc).
I should, it wasn't the most immediate thought in my head; Republicans openly court the wealthy for donations, while most Dems (there are a few outspoken individuals that try) fail to curtail the power wealthy people have in US politics. Wealth Class is certainly a good addition to my list of criteria, as those who are less wealthy and are outright poor often have no voice in the political space. Unless they really create a proper spectacle which can't be ignored.
Says the person that loves democracy so much they refuse to either understand or accept that until third party candidate figure out how to make themselves viable, you are throwing away a vote.
You all like to say ad nauseam- that it’s the democrats that need to show that they deserve your vote. But fail on every occasion to explain what any of the third party candidates have done to earn them.
Especially when all of them provenly do jack shit three out of every four years.
Now. I will patiently await your hasty lack of response.
I live in a state in this so-called democracy where my vote has literally no impact, I'm not voting for the Democrats because of their incessant warmongering.
I'm not even in PSL but they've certainly not been doing "jack shit", they've been very involved in antiwar protests since Iraq.
Kamala Harris has no chance of winning my state anyway, so why shouldn't I vote for who I want, at least as a show of support since I'll be there anyway?
65 replies
Unless you have a plan already in motion that will institute STAR voting and fully educate the public on it in the next 12 days, you get to shut up until after Kamala has won.
Oh you’re going to rile up some people with that common sense.
They wake up angry. Can't help it if they're not morning people when they keep claiming all day, every day is morning.
Yeah but what if I want trrmp to win without any of the hate. /s
Upvoting for visibility on STAR voting: https://www.starvoting.org/
Once you lived through a few of the worse choices for almost a decade at a time you want the better one consistantly.
And if they only seem to care about it in terms of the unwinnable Presidential race rather than being focused on winnable races lower down the ballot
And you wonder why you get trump.
Doesn't matter anyway
Uncropped
That might be your reaction, but it’s not mine.
I’ve been through this too many times. Forgive me if I’m cynical, the receipts are easy to find.
So they should be easy to show, right?
Easy to show? No, not yet. And to what end is another consideration
It’s like a riddle.
‘What’s easy to find but not easy to show yet?
‘And to what end is another consideration.’
Oh, I know this one! It s the hole in the barrel! Wait no, maybe it’s the woods…? Oh, no…ummmm. Oh it must be Jill Stein’s lack of policies and support of Putin’s interference in our government.
If you’re cool with a pro-genocide duopoly, keep putting in the work.
it’s a gaslight, isn’t it?
No you
Days years
DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE DUOPOLY
You know how to guarantee that you have no power? Don’t vote. Not voting is 100% the best way to screw yourself over and the worse a candidate is the more they’re hoping people with any kind of morals stay home.
Suck it up and vote. It sucks and needs to be better but not voting is such a bullshit stance that fails everyone.
It must be wild being that naive. You’re not clever, you’re handing an incredibly high amount of power to the people who want to use it to fuck you over basically for the fun of it.
You do need to do what you say but if you don’t vote because you’re too busy throwing a temper tantrum you’re going to find that organizing, under what will basically be a far-right dictatorship, will be…rather difficult.
Moderates are always first against the wall no matter who wins, but they tend to share their mass graves with the Anarchists who put them there. Don't be a useful idiot
So set up cults then.
You just said voting bad, so those alternatives are all going to inherently involve autocratic systems arising out of whatever "not voting" system you try to run with.
This plus the displayed disdain for the greater society you're intending to separate from indicates you will inherently be more likely to establish a cult under your model, be it Waco or Jim Jones, it will end up as a cult.
Voting is a system by which decisions are made by a large number of people. If you don't have a voting system, you can't have a functioning Society unless you have something like a dictatorship. Anarchism requires voting. Anarchists who pretend that everything needs to be done by absolute consensus are stupid, and are doomed to failure.
Good argument. All you did is make blatant statements. Voting is not the answer especially not voting in capitalist elections.
You sound like your entire education in your stated philosophy was anarchism 101 on reddit.
Hah yeah that's the line
Yeah, that's why the people who's ideology is reinforcing the current power structure and reverting it to even worse times are so hell bent on sabotaging the vote.
Speaking against the tool of the proletariat to enact their will without having to fight a war for it every fucking time makes you nothing but a class traitor.
The vote in a "western democracy" isn't the "tool if the proletariat" that us a crazy take.
It is literally the main tool by which further democratic rights have been obtained in those western democracies, contrary to your giveaway scare quotes.
Be it by referenda, passage of law, or by constitutional amendment, every single advancement has been made through the organization of the proletariat as a voting block.
Stop being a fucking class traitor because you don't want to admit that sitting on your ass doesn't send any kind of message other than that you have done nothing for the working class.
Why are you downplaying voting? Yes, organizing strikes and many years ago larger movements created opportunities to pass monumental bills. Yet, there have been SO many laws and discussions since then that did not involve some form of violence or shutdown of some port. By voting together we can enact change. We create it through one voice. Even if our desires are different in the moment, we all want a better life. Why not take every advantage we can to make one?
No offense, but if you hate democracy you really shouldn't vote.
"You hate democracy" -person who doesn't understand how FPTP in our kind of democracy isn't conducive to meaningful third-party voting without major voting reform
If you want to vote third party, then maybe make sure that it's viable first. Campaign in the long term, propose reform, gather grassroots support, etc. Simply voting third party in our current system does nothing.
THIS, 1,000%! Third Party doesn't have a huge presence in the USA, only because people don't do the work to get it there. It requires a lot of work that should be done just after the new sitting president is elected. Building a recognizable platform with proper support takes a lot of effort. It would be worth it, though, to truly support the people in ways which a two party system cannot. Holding the President and other people in power accountable with sensible words and meaningful action would get a party to gradually become a household name.
After I vote for Kamala, this is what I will be looking into. Finding a third party (one with aims to support everyone, no matter gender, sexuality, etc).
You should definitely add wealth class to your list of criteria, as this is a factor that both Dems and Reps fail to address.
I should, it wasn't the most immediate thought in my head; Republicans openly court the wealthy for donations, while most Dems (there are a few outspoken individuals that try) fail to curtail the power wealthy people have in US politics. Wealth Class is certainly a good addition to my list of criteria, as those who are less wealthy and are outright poor often have no voice in the political space. Unless they really create a proper spectacle which can't be ignored.
Says the person that loves democracy so much they refuse to either understand or accept that until third party candidate figure out how to make themselves viable, you are throwing away a vote.
You all like to say ad nauseam- that it’s the democrats that need to show that they deserve your vote. But fail on every occasion to explain what any of the third party candidates have done to earn them.
Especially when all of them provenly do jack shit three out of every four years.
Now. I will patiently await your hasty lack of response.
I live in a state in this so-called democracy where my vote has literally no impact, I'm not voting for the Democrats because of their incessant warmongering.
I'm not even in PSL but they've certainly not been doing "jack shit", they've been very involved in antiwar protests since Iraq.
If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the results
Please don’t advocate for people to not vote. Especially if you claim to not hate democracy.
It's simple, if the candidate supports genocide I don't vote for them. Should be a pretty easy and low bar to pass.
Low effort tbh
Don't be surprised if one party genocides harder
Don't cut your nose off to spite your face
So which candidate are you voting for this year?
Claudia de la Cruz
Cool.
What are her chances of getting in?
About as high as Harris winning my state anyway
Would you still vote for her if you lived in a swing state?
Yeah probably. Tell you what, if Harris loses any state by as many or fewer voters as Claudia de la Cruz got in that same state, I'll send you $25.
Send it to Claudia de la Cruz to help her break 0.1% of the vote.
Hey me too, it's not like my vote does anything in my state anyways
If you don't live in a swing state this is already the case, which is the majority of people, yet everyone automatically assumes that's not the case
Kamala Harris has no chance of winning my state anyway, so why shouldn't I vote for who I want, at least as a show of support since I'll be there anyway?
If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the results
Who said I wasn't voting
I didn't, just don't cut your nose off to spite your face Edit : also I put this on the wrong comment
One day every 4 years is not a lot of work.