Do you talk about your worries and fears to the fleshlight beside your bed? Do you try and plan a future with the magazine you’ve made sticky?
All to say I don’t care what gets your jollies off (legally of course) but there’s a huge difference between self pleasure and building a life with another human being.
those people can't get a real women because a woman is allowed to have a standard nowadays
That is not even close to the only reason, nor even the primary reason, that single men are single. It's just a sexist generalization.
As a 'bonus', it also prejudicially implies that only bad people are lonely, which in turn villainizes socially-awkward men and other men who have trouble finding love through no fault of their own, and contributes toward the radicalization of these men, making them more vulnerable to the Tates etc. of the world.
So please, don't do that. This is literally the male version of telling a woman she's 'ruined' because she's no longer a virgin.
What a stupid question. Do you think people use sex toys as a replacement for emotional intimacy and shared life experiences or is this a self-tell that you think relationships are nothing more than sex?
Are you going to force people who own bots to use them for emotional intimacy and shared life experiences, or does your crystal ball tell you this will happen?
I think the point was "I don't assume you are in love with your dildo, and so you shouldn't assume consumers of sex robots are, or desire to be, in love with their sex robots."
The picture in OP isn't really a counterargument, as it's arguably an appeal to one specific slice of the nascent sex-robot customer base.
I have to admit, while sex-robot is not a thing on my want list, if it were I'd tend to see it as a super fancy sex toy, not as a companion. (Though again I recognize that for some it probably would be.)
... Can it do domestic labor or just sex? I am a woman and frankly I'd be interested in a robot wife.. I've got my husband for sex but we're tired of cooking dinner and cleaning the house. We'd both like a wife.
Most of those men were never that desirable on a personality level anyway.
They think of women in transactional terms, where they only do what's necessary to get laid.
I think, especially the incel types almost live in an RPG. Women are just NPCs, you do some quests for them, fetch her father's sword from the orc cave, hit the right speech options and if you gathered enough reputation, you get the ethereal pussy of power that gives +5 on mana.
Switching directly to robots does make sense in that world.
the thing i just cannot wrap my head around with these people is what the hell they're after, they claim they don't like women and yet they're clearly thirsting after them.
best i can guess is that they're just profoundly mentally unhealthy and unable to realize that if they want a partner they should just.. be desirable, which easy to get started with by learning how to cook and being nice to people.
They see women as accessories, like a tie or jacket, and fundamentally less valuable than themselves.
I think this is partly driven by a mixture of misogyny and low self-esteem. A woman on equal footing might threaten their very fragile self worth.
So being a normal person would mean partial submission to a woman (because that's just part of being in a relationship, you're not always on top), but at the same time they feel the societal need for a woman, because only having sex makes them true men.
And it's also the typical self-victimization of fascist Ideologies. Nazis are victims of the Jews, current fascists are victims of immigrants or Muslims, incels are victims of Chad Thundercock.
I think this is partly driven by a mixture of misogyny and low self-esteem
It's also driven by isolation. There's a reason there are so many incels out in the sticks. These guys have never been popular, so they locked themselves away, in a place where you already have to work to meet people. They basically never socially mature, and get all their human interaction on 4chan
Robot wives are pretty much exactly what the whole torso dildo is. Only, someone who has the whole torso dildo isn’t taking it out to dinner and dancing and showing it off like it’s trophy.
That's beyond comprehension. No sane person is taking their dildo out for dinner or to a friends house to watch a movie. They'd have to be android quality.
I should watch one of those. I know they exist but I don't see those people being in a good space mentally. I'm being a bit loose with the definition of sane, ie no sane person would do that. There's at least one feature film covering this topic too.
I really don't understand the dot connection from sexbots existing to women becoming secound class citizens or whatever they think will happen. It's as if they think women only exist for sex and marriage and won't have a purpose without it. And that's not even to go into their assumption that every single person will decide that having a human connection is pointless and can be replaced by a non sentient(god I hope so) sexbot.
I really don’t understand the dot connection from sexbots existing to women becoming secound class citizens
It's the same thinking that leads to "AI will replace programmers/artists/writers" but with extra misogyny. People in power don't actually believe this garbage, it's all a marketing gimmick to appeal to losers and incels. Nevertheless, this kind of rhetoric does real societal harm. Same as with musks hyperloop -- hype up a fake idea and grab the cash.
The scary thing is I think some of them (like Muskrat) do believe it… even though they have no idea how AI even works or how to build a robot like in the pic. They just come up with the idea and then hand off all the actual planning to others, and then strut around like roosters in a barnyard feeling oh-so-smart.
And these rich idiots want this stuff in order to keep all the money for themselves instead of paying an actual human for art/programming/writing (in the case of AI) or so they don’t have to deal with a real human being with their own needs and wants (in the case of a robot ‘wife’). They just don’t want other ‘inferior’ people around them, period.
Which just goes to show what they think of marriage, I suppose.
So you're suggesting that people - especially those in power - seem to think that women are equals who have individual identities and worth?
I'm not a woman, so I'm probably not qualified to comment; and I'm not intending to attack you personally, only address what you say here; but it does seem like in many cases women get a bum rap.
didn't mean to dehumanize them, i meant that they aren't men in the sense of masculinity. theres not much thats less masculine than bothering people who don't want to be bothered.
Assault is not an masculine trait, it's an action done by disgusting people regardless of gender. I wasn't assaulted often, but I was hit by women more often than men(I know that I am in the minority, but it demonstrates that violence is not inherently something based in gender).
I personally think that masculinity (or femininity) is diminished by such actions. It makes people look undisciplined and lacking morals, empathy and respect.
I also think it's important to start defining masculinity and femininity by positive traits, so young people see it and aspire to embody those traits. We need a counter-weight to the Tate's and Rogan's in this world.
Women are already safer 'walking at night' than men are, by a wide margin. And even for men it's quite rare overall.
You've been duped by fear-mongering propaganda.
Also, the fact is that any pair of people is statistically WAY less likely to be attacked in that way, than any individual. This should be the primary 'tip' at the top of the list when it comes to educating about being safe in that situation. Nothing reduces your risk more, regardless of your sex, than not being all by yourself. Nothing else comes even close.
P.S. Bonus tip, because I hate whenever I see this 'advice' making the rounds on social media or whatnot: doing some Wolverine-style shit with your keys is a stupid self-defense idea; it's ineffective and literally more likely to do damage to you than an attacker. Instead, in a pinch, it's much better to hold the largest key you have (likely car key) between thumb and index finger, and 'stab' with it like a dagger, hard as you can.
What part of this are you doubting the accuracy of? None of it is controversial (if you care about what the facts/statistics are more than what you want them to be, that is).
Sure, it's a bit hyperbolic, but the fact of the matter is that I've never met anyone else who was as good or consistent at keeping personal feelings and biases from influencing their conclusions, not even close.
And so, so many people here think they have me figured out, and also aren't even close, because they in their lazy-mindedness are so used to putting people in their stereotype-defined buckets, instead of assessing them as individuals.
As a non native English speaker, that is the grammar mistake that most baffles me in natives. Like, how does anybody think that “of” is the right word there, how does it make sense in their heads.
True 🦴🍎☕️ material, if it weren’t that absurdly common.
I think the mistake might come from a lack of reading. The contraction "should've" is often used in speech, which might be mistakenly written as "should of" if you don't read a lot and see it written properly all the time. We've mostly lost the voiced quality of "v" at the ends of words like that, so it's basically pronounced "should-uf" in American English.
I mean, it's rather obvious it's just written down as it's spoken - like "bone apple tea". But while it's relatable that someone who doesn't know any French cannot write "bon appétit", I don't get how a native speaker could write "should of" and thinking yeah that makes complete sense.
It's also not an auto-correct problem like "there, they're, their" may have originated (I hope it did).
i just learned yesterday that apparently america teaches kids to read not by, you know, having them read things, but by memorizing made-up rules to.. guess at how words are pronounced and what they mean..
this uh, explains a lot about why america is why it is, i feel.
When spoken should've can sound a lot like should of or shoulda depending on the dialect. Most native speakers don't really think about gammer rules when writing informally, they just write how they speak.
shoulda makes vastly more sense, and is precisely the kind of thing that tends to become slang and eventually just the standard spelling, like "dunno" or "gotcha".
"should of" just feels like people know it should be two words, but don't know how it's spelled, and instead of just spelling it phonetically they make something half-phonetic up.
I say shoulda, gonna, etc. I'm never going to mix up should've with should of. It doesn't make ANY fucking sense typed out. I discount everything else a person has said if they type either.
Should of is so much worse though. There/they're/their I can excuse as being dyslexic or English as a second language. But should of/could of speaks to a deep problem. The person who types it does not consider what they say.
lol this would be amazing news for straight women. it should be super cheap and accessible too. imagine the number of weirdos who will preliminate themselves from dating before you even know them. what a wonderful gift to the world. it's great for straight men too, if the women won't have to spelunk through so much garbage to find a normal dude.
It's subjective who's a normal dude and whether that intersects with weirdos who preliminate (interesting word) themselves from dating before you even know them.
I'm definitely in the latter group except for a few very rare events (all of which did not end very well, though for some of them others say I dodged a bullet, and for some of them I've reevaluated the events and myself think I dodged a bullet, though the person is good, but they too have problems unfixed yet which would make it a dumpster fire, and some of them ended such a nightmare that I suspect I should be glad we weren't deeper into things ... tldr I'm one of those weirdos)
But this really would be amazing news for everyone if we assume a good enough physical imitation is possible. Let them. Plastic grass, fabric flowers, rubber "stone" or "brick" walls, electric fireplaces, search engines instead of actually judging for yourself whom you'd want to ask and what you'd want to read, social media instead of a forum (the Roman one, though early 00s ones were good) or a homepage, fashion degenerating into all girls at night looking the same (outdoors), the "genial" and "non-mainstream" authors' names being known to every high schooler and all the same unlike Stanislaw Lem and Isaac Asimov and Chesterton and Simak and even Tolkien and Lewis, instead of ancap (like it or not, it's a very firm and characteristic ideology, that has influenced cyberpunk in both ways) optimism\pessimism only cryptoscams and Gab and alt-rights around, instead of new computer-powered amazing art - some plagiarism machines, instead of transhumanism - some very persuasive bots, it makes sense that at some point this should come to moving dolls instead of romantic partners, and if people don't choke on the rest in this list, they won't choke on that too.
We do have Harlowe's monkey studies that do indicate that even imitation is better than nothing.
My guess is that this plays along oxytocin receptors, which is also why things like weighted blankets do kind of work, social media does kinda work, etc. People can also take inhalable oxytocin.
There is no replacement for unconditional love (which means love that respects boundaries unconditionally as extensions of a person and their autonomy) and community though. But that doesn't mean women should endanger themselves so dangerous men who enjoy being controlling (like Musk) can have oxytocin. Because then that means women don't get unconditional love and respect for their boundaries and safety.
I am agreeable to these robots but I also have some reservations as a sex worker. First, there is a substantial male population who cannot hire sex workers because they have been blacklisted for various reasons. These men could benefit from a doll for sure. Second, similar to AI deepfake concerns - some of these men are basing dolls off real people, and some are pedophiles- what stops them from ordering a doll that looks just like the little girl next door? And what stops them from filming material harming and torturing these dolls and selling it online? Including material that could involve animals, feces, or other taboo/illegal/defamatory acts? That's likely currently legal depending on the doll's appearance (how young it appears) and local laws. Yes, it's just a doll, so that's better than the huge curremt online presence of monkey torture and real human torture. But don't you think that's also bad in some way too? On one hand, it's comparatively a good outlet. On the other hand, holy fuck
Yeah, holy fuck, the morality waters get very murky very quickly when the topic of sex robots come up especially when it concerns taboo and illegal fetishism.
Content warning: moral discussions of sex-bots for very taboo fetishes below.
I think it mostly comes down to people's personal tolerance of "ick" i.e. how much person A judges a fetish that person B has that person A is not into.
Some people are, understandably, completely turned off or even horrified at taboo kinks like age-play, roleplay-incest, CNC, scat, blood, etc.
Heck I've even seen some articles that argue that "mainstream" BDSM is the fetishization of women's suffering and therefore inherently misogynistic. But I don't think that's a common viewpoint and not one I hold either.
Personally, I don't care what sex thing people are into that doesn't involve me so long as it's not causing harm and it's between consenting adults.
So springboarding off your comment about pedophilia and beastiality, which are both illegal for extremely good reasons: would sex-dolls or sex-robots for both/either be harm-reduction or harm-enabling?
On the argument for harm reduction; it's an outlet for those fetishes that has no victim. Therefore it could prevent those who have that fetish from victimising children and animals because it's much less risky and not illegal to use a sex-doll/robot for those purposes in private solitude. And who should care what weird things people get up to in private so long as it does no harm to others.
On the argument for harm enabling; it could push illegal fetishes that are quite rightly shunned by society towards normalisation. Shame is a powerful emotional tool used in animal social groups to discourage behaviour of individuals that are harmful to the group.
In a similar way if someone says something weird in person in front of a group of people they want to be accepted in they get ridiculed, feel shame and embarrassment for saying something weird, and don't say it again in that group.
Now with social media, those people who have the same weird opinion (just to be clear everyone has at least a few weird opinions, no exceptions there) can find eachother and echo-chamber themselves, calcify their opinions into more extreme forms, and occasionally act them out in the physical world causing harm to others.
What happens when the technology of social media collides with the technology of sex bots? Like with the hypotheticals you gave of people "stealing" identities of celebrities to make their own sex bots or styling them after pictures of kids they found online.
What happens when they start sharing tips for making animal sex-bots with more realistic fur, exploring these problematic fetishes with others which normalises the behaviour in the group, until finally one of the group decides that only the "real-thing" is good enough for them now then goes out into the world and does harm?
I don't know which side I fall on. And I don't think I will ever know until I can see some conclusive evidence one way or another.
That's as far as I will entertain these kinds of discussions because my "ick" point is when these trains of thought lead to asking the same question about simulated snuff.
Because that opens a whole other horrifying can of worms of what about making bots for simulated rape, murder, and necrophilia for those with psychopathic tendancies?
And for me it boils down to is the question "do we make objects to sell and commodify humanity's capacity for evil as recreation?".
As you are a sex worker, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on the ramblings above and please correct me if I've made any assumptions or leaps in logic.
Well, on the matter of dolls looking "just like" whoever, I think that should be legal with no reservations. The point we consider those acts you've described heinous and disgusting and so on is because real people\animals suffer. The rest is simply not our business. So if there's no real suffering involved, this is not even up to discussion.
Releasing filmed material with dolls is another issue, I think this should be considered harassment, maybe even on the "rape threat" level. But again - scaled by the real rights being violated, not by what we want and don't want others to do, because that's not our business.
I'm not sure I agree about it being a good outlet, I think you are right about not being sure. That outlet logic doesn't quite work the same with every person. Again, a person on the spectrum (like me) might use that possibility to play, and for them it will really be an outlet. A usual person with weird fetishes might do that too, or want the real thing after playing with toys enough, as with gateway drugs. A psychopath will likely have no use for toys since they only want real power over living beings.
As we all see with the Web and social media, lots of genocidal rhetoric has been normalized in the last decade that wasn't before that. Don't want to mention Azeris, but 15 years ago they (in the Russian-speaking Web) wouldn't go to common places, because those places would expel savages ; now the common places are just as degenerate and hateful. I wouldn't want the same thing to happen with torture and rape fantasies.
So - I think it's a bad thing. In private they may do with dolls as they want. In public and in the Web - depending on how realistic it is.
There's also a substantial male population for whom a woman being subservient is a turnoff, though, with knowing it's a transaction being sufficient. For such people a doll could help with some purely physical stupid things, but those are the least of lonely people's problems, so not very useful.
EDIT: Oh, another person has already said all the same things.
I'm right there with you. I'm mildly on the spectrum, though functional enough that no one would assume it unless they really got to know me, and while I am capable of having a moderate amount of success in the initial stages of dating, compatibility and styles of communication always end up being the primary issue, and that's not necessarily a failing on either party. The fact remains though that there does not seem to be many people out there that I am compatible with.
I am fortunate in that I am generally very content being alone and pursuing things that are of interest to me for very long periods of time (the only thing I really noticed during Covid lock downs was that my commute to work was faster, while my much more social partner at the time suffered a lot mental health wise). Despite that I am, unfortunately, still human and desire a certain amount of intimacy and connection with another person. I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but if you have seen the new Blade Runner movie, I could absolutely see myself with a "companion" like the holographic one the main character has in his apartment.
Well, my notable spectrum-related personal trait is that I want to know the truth about things, so falling in love with pictures just won't work, I won't be able to expel from my mind the fact that it's not real in any regard.
Unless a machine conscience of human kind becomes real.
I'm not sure if you are speaking generally, or to what I said specifically, but it may be worth adding a little bit more context for what I said originally. It is highly unlikely I would fall in love with an AI in the scenario I described above. It would more be about scratching an itch for certain kinds of interactions that I may not otherwise be able to have. I'm not sure it's a perfect analogy, but it might be similar to the way I care about a character in a book or game, or maybe how I feel about a pet.
I think if we got to the point where an AI had human levels of general intelligence and emotion this conversation would be somewhat moot. The world would be so drastically different I don't even know what kinds of assumptions to make about it to have a productive conversion about it.
I am 100% behind this. If you want to fuck a robot because "western women" are "to blame" then you go right ahead. Take you and your robot back home and don't come out until you can play well with others.
I don't know why people are downvoting you. I applaud your honesty. Have you considered shutting yourself away with a sex doll while you wait for a robot sex slave? It would save us all much consternation.
woman was recently raped for decades by dozens of men in France, organized by her husband.
Woman, Olympian who just competed this summer, dies of burns from her male partner.
Woman is murdered by boyfriend and then pureéd.
I wish those guys had had a doll. But no, nothing is quite as good as a living woman to control instead ig.
There are 2 distinct types of love. Unconditional love, and conditional love. These 2 types actually oppose each other.
Unconditional love means "I love you, including your boundaries, and I will respect those boundaries as a show of love even if that means we cannot be together because it conflicts with my boundaries."
Conditional love means, "You must prove you love me by sacrificing your boundaries and personhood. Your boundaries and autonomy show you do not love me and thus upset me. Being willing to separate to keep boundaries intact shows you can escape my control, which terrifies me." Narcissistic relationships feature conditional love quite strongly. They often require heavy enmeshment as part of this boundary trampling. This is also the same type of "love" or relationship dynamic that exists from a boss to an employee. Or a slaver to a slave. There's a reason these guys who love controlling women would actually benefit from a doll. But dolls aren't usually "good enough" because they don't have boundaries to violate even though they allow for ultimate control. This is also why conservative men REALLY REALLY like leftist women and not their fellow conservative women - more torture potential and boundary violation potential.
Only western women though, they are the degenerate ones that deserve being made obsolete. Nice Slavs and Asian women are obedient and keen to home slavery, so they won’t be impacted by this competition. Thank god.
Elon Musk believes that population decline is a real problem. Well, there is enough African, Latino and Indian kids but those are not the children he wants.
Dunno, I suck at learning languages, gave up after English, and I only got passable at it after spending some time in Ireland. Maybe I'll try Spanish some day.
I do, however, have a friend who just likes learning languages. He's at his fifth now, and deciding between Polish and Czech. Some people are just language freaks, I guess.
Misogynists and fascists like disgusting Elon aside, I do believe there is a serious problem on the horizon.
Just existing AI capabilities, "cyberdildonics" and virtual reality headsets. It doesn't have to be a full sized sex robot, simple hardware like the handy already exists.
Imagine combining that with a ChatGPT and video generating AI that is designed to create "engagement" similar to how social media does this - not just with sexual pleasure but also through generated stories creating a pseudo intimacy based on illusion.
It sounds pathetic but algorithms could relatively quickly generate the "ideal" forms of pornography and stimulation to maximize pleasure, including "aural" stimulation and sex stories. And that generated for the tastes and desires of each individual.
So there is at least the possibility of a kind of addiction or at least habit forming from a kind of "ultra porn". Long term this will lead to changes in dating and procreation and socialization, if sexual desires are being able to be fulfilled illusionary and in a fantasy world.
No matter how pathetic you think this is, it's going to be a real problem or at least disruption. Obviously it won't be a feminist "self own".
A lot of it has to do with options. Not good or bad, but options.
You go into a store and want to buy milk, and instead of there being the local milk selections there is now 50,000 different choices. So we always seem to hold out for that more ideal option and never really select one.
This might be where modern dating is going. Fight Club talked about the single serving friend. Tinder style dating has turned us into single serving partner.
Window shopping on a hookup site is one thing, it seems a bit like some people have just not gotten the memo that that's not what a long-term relationship looks like. Superficial stuff is nice but I'd rather find someone I really, really like. Can't really window shop for that though and it might take a long, long time to actually find out if the feelings match reality.
Apparently a large amount of people are essentially casting someone for the role of partner though. Never really taking down their personality defenses, never just being themselves. Because that's being vulnerable. 1800s style. I'd rather stay single.
You're kinda describing a "doll house" from Cyberpunk 2077, except it's ai controlled humans that get their memories wiped performing the service instead of a vr headset
Eh, I think it will broadly be a good thing. Perhaps there will be addiction problems, but you can already basically see any kind of porn you want with minimal effort... This refinement will only have drastic effects on the most niche fetishists.
Plus, anyone who has tried prompting an image generator to do something that isn't a digital art image of a sexy elf in the forest knows it's a real pain to actually get models to do exactly what you want. As they get more sophisticated I don't see this changing. Porn video generation will be fraught with frustration and difficulty... Most likely generating good porn will be a whole job of its own.
Well we're both speculating, but I believe AI will advance to the point it can reliably animate a 3D animated "girlfriend" in a virtual environment and then learn how exactly how to maximize pleasure and create erotic stories. With more advance teledildonics being able to simulate different types of sex it could become better at that then the best "courtesan". Fantasy is often better than sex already, but what happens when you have visual, physical and erotic narrative woven together?
Your relationship won’t be the issue. It will be the millions of high school boys who grow up with this experience rather than attempt dating. And why would they date? That person has problems, isn’t “on” 100% of the time. For a young man they can get everything they think they need from an AI wankfest.
I highly recommend Patricia Evans' books on Verbally Abusive Relationships, and Controlling People.
Basically, when kids get dolls, they understand that they are projecting their daily issues onto the dolls. They get to dress up the doll and put their worries on the doll and do all these things with the doll. When they do that with people, typically other younger kids, they are then taught that people aren't to be treated like dolls. People aren't an extension of our selves. Thus, women tend to be socialized to have better perspective taking skills, and if they need an outlet for this type of behavior, they can use dolls or the Sims etc as a healthy outlet.
Not sure why you deleted this, I was hoping to reply to it. I want to apologise for projecting. I didn't think of the action figures I grew up with as real dolls until later in life.
I still think they can be a little 1 dimensional, but that's because of how they're marketed, socialized, etc
I honestly thought I was being too harsh and you didn't deserve that for just trying to perspective take and share with me.
It's important that boys play with girl dolls so they can understand the boundaries between a girl's body and a doll's body. It's okay to dress up a doll, it's not okay to dress up a girl for instance.
Wasn't this one of the plot threads that the shut-away CEO who made the bots had for himself one with an Asian ethnicity (a reference to the racist stereotype that Asian women are the 'perfect' wife because they are weak and submissive 🫤) that didn't speak as a pseudo-housewife that ended up stabbing him in the finale?
Both his SA bot and the main one being Turing-tested killed him in the end.
If there was ever a real-world tech billionare who was conceited/naively overconfident enough to make a murderous AI robot (designed to look like an amalgam of people's porn preferences lol) that ended up killing him, it's Elmo.
Yeah Elmo saw those films and failed to understand the message "if you think the bot you've built is sentient don't trap it and assault it because it will want to break free and stab you" lmao.
Go on a thread talking about cost of living or cost of children. Most views there are "if you can't afford kids don't have em" without realizing what you guys are actually suggesting. A future where only the rich get to have kids, and the poor are only there to work and die
Cool. Here, let me clarify why I adamantly disagree so that it's clear it wasn't my "lack of acceptance" of your evidence as to why I wasn't swayed.
Eugenics is systemic and requires intent. If individuals make the decision to not have children because the world is hostile towards them doing so, that's an individual choice. Can't be eugenics. Hell, even discussing not having children if you can't afford it still isn't eugenics.
Now, a world being designed to be hostile towards individuals having children, that could be interpreted as eugenics. But the victims of that system making the choice the system has been made to make them make... yeah, not eugenics. Victims, not perpetrators.
So, like I said, your position is exaggeration to the point of absurdity.
And before it's brought up, while many people in power are eugenicists (white nationalists, classists, etc) I don't think the current system is intentionally designed to cut the population. It's a knock-on effect of letting the wants make policy, rather than making systems to be equitable. They just want to have everything without thinking the ramifications of their decisions all the way through.
Malthusianism and eugenics are inseparable, not to mention both have been completely debunked, over and over and over again. Yet it persists as not just a cultural relic like phrenology but as a mode of inquiry that gets funded, researched, promoted. Even you take it seriously, "its not about killing certain people, its about killing everyone equally."
Its almost like there is a group or maybe a class of people who do the funding and own the media companies, who like this idea and want to keep it around despite it being based on lies and conjecture. And if that is true, the question becomes "why?"
Ignoring how much of a fuckup his personal projects are, if these types of robots are made and are sentient/conscious/self aware, then these incels will run into the same problem that they do with human women.
If these robots don't have those qualities, these incels will remain unfulfilled with their "partners".
Their only solution is to actually respect women and value them as equals. But they'll never do that.
Haha that is a good sci-fi question. Obviously not, because the joy is in giving pleasure. You can fantasize about pleasuring a women but that is not the same. Without AI sentience, a sex bot would simply be a tool to enhance your own pleasure or fantasy.
MAYBE if it was like a game or an educational tool that measures your performance so you can compete with others in cunnilingus? Hahaha but no.
Also if anything it's men who will become obsolete, probably already are we just don't yet have an incentive to use our biological tech to make it happen.
Delivery men, construction, manufacturing, mechanics, plumbers and a lot of other blue collar jobs that are mostly men and pretty difficult to automate so far
The cause is glaringly obvious but, like officially recognizing C-PTSD, acknowledging that a hyper-commercialized hellscape is not good for the vast majority of humanity would mean needing to take actions to reduce wealth and income disparity, which would mean the handful of people making disgusting amounts of money would be impacted. An we can't have that.
I'm confused. Are we calling musk Elmo now? Or are there more pictures I didn't see? Because calling musk Elmo is an insult to Elmo. Elmo's not facist! Elmo's only ticklish!
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. S5E15. I Was Made to Love You. Warren, what a gem of a human being that character was.
Seriously though. We’ll never be obsolete for the same reason we will never have bodily autonomy: reproduction. Until science devises a way for men to reproduce themselves in a lab. And, yes, please, do that, Science. Roe never would’ve fallen had this already been a thing.
2, don't hate me for not citing, it's late, I'm tired, if I remember I'll find a source tomorrow. But I read semi recently that it may be possible with current tech to use skin cells to make either sperm or egg cells, enabling queer couples to have children that are biologically the offspring of both parents, regardless of the sex make up of the couple. As a gay man myself, that is a very exciting prospect. As a lonely person who's unlikely to ever be in the situation, it's less exciting. But I'm still excited for others!
But yeah, we may well be on our way to a world where it's possible for biological males and females to have children without a partner of the other sex. Which is interesting, but I don't think it'll solve sexism.
Even pre fall of Roe, it’s never been as easy for a woman to get a tubal, not like it is for men to get vasectomies, and not due to the different procedural complexity.
.
Mileage varies, always, but even with kids, a woman is often refused a tubal, pre 35 yrs of age. Especially when single. Future potential husbands get cited. Yes, really. The last person I personally knew who was refused a much wanted tubal was a 26yo mother of 3, and it was 2018. The health insurance wasn’t through a religious institution either. (That can also matter, yes).
.
“You’re not married, and you might decide later to…”
I'm familiar with that bullshit. A good friend of mine has a history of really severe medical issues in her family, and tried to get her tubes tied at 30, as she and her husband decided not to have kids, and adopt instead. Her doctor didn't want to let her do it in case they changed their minds. It's none of their fucking business. That's not okay in any way, shape, or form. :/
This isn’t a bad thing because there are so many lonely people who would benefit from this. But hopefully anyone who has a robot companion (wife, husband etc) isn’t buying it on subscription from Musk or the like because that’s just going to put you in a weird relationships with corpos and it’s not going to be your relationship. Follow the crypto rule, not your keys not your companion.
But, like, no. The solution to loneliness is a walkable spaces, third places, better education, etc. not making machines that emulate human speech with no thoughts.
Those too, I agree. But there’s something unique about being able to voice out your inner fears, insecurities and anxieties with a companion and have them listen. They don’t even need to solution anything with you, necessarily. A lot of people, not just men, are lacking that when they’re lonely.
I hate that someone like OpenAI or Musk or Amazon are going to capitalize on this space in the worst possible ways. We need more empathy driven technology development, kinda like an actionable Hippocratic Oath for software dev
As a dominatrix, I am indeed paid to do these things by the people who request it for their own self. Including helping people get hormones, reminding them to take it as directed by a doctor, teaching them makeup, etc. This is discussed ahead of time of course, always with safewords, and I see myself as more of a guiding femme force.
I also do "force" some of my subs to go on dates with others. Some men want to be forced to suck dick, it's true. Again, safewords and metadiscussions.
There will always be a market for sex and sex workers. Sex is just plain fun. Hedonism feels good. The idea of these dolls replacing/threatening a sex club or sex partners is funny because that's not what many of these sexual experiences are even about - its not about sexual control or coercion. It's about enjoying the moment hedonistically and often judgement free, while being completely safe. It's also about being a bit taboo and naughty, maybe a little risky. Sure, a person could bring their doll to a sex club and experience that too, and that's fine. But it's not going to replace women there like you're hoping.
Having dolls like this available is good in many ways (see my other comment itt), especially because there is a large large male population who cannot hire sex workers in person for various reasons. Like for any amount of money. So those guys could probably benefit from something. Ofc, this post isn't actually real so we are just speaking in general here.
i'm not a woman but something tells me that they wouldn't want to be with a person who even remotely considers the idea of owning a robotic sex-slave.
Am a woman - can confirm. It’s such a self own it’s laughable. They didn’t want a partner in the true sense to begin with.
Do you own sex toys?
Do you talk about your worries and fears to the fleshlight beside your bed? Do you try and plan a future with the magazine you’ve made sticky?
All to say I don’t care what gets your jollies off (legally of course) but there’s a huge difference between self pleasure and building a life with another human being.
Maybe you’ll experience it some day.
You don't know what people with do with their bots. You're just looking for somebody to hate.
You’re the one who asked me if I had sex toys. Seems like you’re framing it just right.
You're supposed to look away from the mirror when you're talking to someone.
Fam you’re just digging up your own L
That is not even close to the only reason, nor even the primary reason, that single men are single. It's just a sexist generalization.
As a 'bonus', it also prejudicially implies that only bad people are lonely, which in turn villainizes socially-awkward men and other men who have trouble finding love through no fault of their own, and contributes toward the radicalization of these men, making them more vulnerable to the Tates etc. of the world.
So please, don't do that. This is literally the male version of telling a woman she's 'ruined' because she's no longer a virgin.
What a stupid question. Do you think people use sex toys as a replacement for emotional intimacy and shared life experiences or is this a self-tell that you think relationships are nothing more than sex?
Are you going to force people who own bots to use them for emotional intimacy and shared life experiences, or does your crystal ball tell you this will happen?
I mean that seems hugely implied by the pictures in the above post no?
Edit: oh you said forced. No? But I don't see how that's relevant. Why would you ask "Do you have sex toys?" In response to that comment?
I think the point was "I don't assume you are in love with your dildo, and so you shouldn't assume consumers of sex robots are, or desire to be, in love with their sex robots."
The picture in OP isn't really a counterargument, as it's arguably an appeal to one specific slice of the nascent sex-robot customer base.
I have to admit, while sex-robot is not a thing on my want list, if it were I'd tend to see it as a super fancy sex toy, not as a companion. (Though again I recognize that for some it probably would be.)
... Can it do domestic labor or just sex? I am a woman and frankly I'd be interested in a robot wife.. I've got my husband for sex but we're tired of cooking dinner and cleaning the house. We'd both like a wife.
Nab a crate loading robot from an Amazon warehouse, it can lift more and will have much less pricey maintenance.
and your husband won't be tempted to fuck it
And that's where you'd be wrong!
No shit! If it can clean catboxes and fold the laundry I'm so down.
There are robot cat boxes tbf
that's called polyamory, and is especially relevant in this economy
I would love even a dumbed down wonderbot from that movie robots. Even something just to load the dishwasher would be amazing.
But we have to prioritize here, if it can't fuck there's no point, throw it in the trash.
I feel like I need this /s although I wish it was obvious.
I've seen this in Detroit: Become Human.
Sign me up for a house-bot. I'm so tired by the time I get home from work that I'd love a robot to do all the chores for me.
Most of those men were never that desirable on a personality level anyway.
They think of women in transactional terms, where they only do what's necessary to get laid.
I think, especially the incel types almost live in an RPG. Women are just NPCs, you do some quests for them, fetch her father's sword from the orc cave, hit the right speech options and if you gathered enough reputation, you get the ethereal pussy of power that gives +5 on mana.
Switching directly to robots does make sense in that world.
the thing i just cannot wrap my head around with these people is what the hell they're after, they claim they don't like women and yet they're clearly thirsting after them.
best i can guess is that they're just profoundly mentally unhealthy and unable to realize that if they want a partner they should just.. be desirable, which easy to get started with by learning how to cook and being nice to people.
They see women as accessories, like a tie or jacket, and fundamentally less valuable than themselves.
I think this is partly driven by a mixture of misogyny and low self-esteem. A woman on equal footing might threaten their very fragile self worth.
So being a normal person would mean partial submission to a woman (because that's just part of being in a relationship, you're not always on top), but at the same time they feel the societal need for a woman, because only having sex makes them true men.
And it's also the typical self-victimization of fascist Ideologies. Nazis are victims of the Jews, current fascists are victims of immigrants or Muslims, incels are victims of Chad Thundercock.
It's also driven by isolation. There's a reason there are so many incels out in the sticks. These guys have never been popular, so they locked themselves away, in a place where you already have to work to meet people. They basically never socially mature, and get all their human interaction on 4chan
I mean, they would most likely also make a male version.
And then we can all join in on the fun with both. Might even be able to do the more advanced Kama Sutra stances that are normally reserved for orgies.
You can bet it will be someones kink.
This makes me think of those whole torso dildos.
If anyone reads this and owns one, please explain.
You're just kink-shaming sex toys now.
I think I'm poking fun of torso dildos. I usually have a tenga in my drawer.
Robot wives are pretty much exactly what the whole torso dildo is. Only, someone who has the whole torso dildo isn’t taking it out to dinner and dancing and showing it off like it’s trophy.
That's beyond comprehension. No sane person is taking their dildo out for dinner or to a friends house to watch a movie. They'd have to be android quality.
Or at least USB C.
They have dolls for that. And people have been. There’s documentaries and videos all about it already.
I should watch one of those. I know they exist but I don't see those people being in a good space mentally. I'm being a bit loose with the definition of sane, ie no sane person would do that. There's at least one feature film covering this topic too.
Whole torso dildo? Like the super long ones?
No no it's like a human body without any limbs.
I guess now that I think about it the limbs would be flaily and weird. I don't think there is a head either, just the torso.
If you're not familiar with this there are dildo conventions that showcase all the latest and greatest.
I really don't understand the dot connection from sexbots existing to women becoming secound class citizens or whatever they think will happen. It's as if they think women only exist for sex and marriage and won't have a purpose without it. And that's not even to go into their assumption that every single person will decide that having a human connection is pointless and can be replaced by a non sentient(god I hope so) sexbot.
I feel like it would free a lot of women to focus on their careers and stuff as opposed to being conditioned to find a husband.
It's the same thinking that leads to "AI will replace programmers/artists/writers" but with extra misogyny. People in power don't actually believe this garbage, it's all a marketing gimmick to appeal to losers and incels. Nevertheless, this kind of rhetoric does real societal harm. Same as with musks hyperloop -- hype up a fake idea and grab the cash.
The scary thing is I think some of them (like Muskrat) do believe it… even though they have no idea how AI even works or how to build a robot like in the pic. They just come up with the idea and then hand off all the actual planning to others, and then strut around like roosters in a barnyard feeling oh-so-smart.
And these rich idiots want this stuff in order to keep all the money for themselves instead of paying an actual human for art/programming/writing (in the case of AI) or so they don’t have to deal with a real human being with their own needs and wants (in the case of a robot ‘wife’). They just don’t want other ‘inferior’ people around them, period.
Which just goes to show what they think of marriage, I suppose.
(Assuming such technology could be viable and not, you know, horrifying like it sounds it would be...)
[Headlines ten years after the invention of the robot "wife"]
WHY ARE GENERATION ALPHA WOMEN KILLING TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE?!
and
GEN ALPHA WOMEN SAY THEY ARE HAPPILY SINGLE: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM??!
and
DEATHS FROM LONELINESS AMONG GEN ALPHA MEN ARE WAY UP: WHAT'S GOING ON?!
So you're suggesting that people - especially those in power - seem to think that women are equals who have individual identities and worth?
I'm not a woman, so I'm probably not qualified to comment; and I'm not intending to attack you personally, only address what you say here; but it does seem like in many cases women get a bum rap.
What is a dot connection?
Is this how we remove these "alphas" from the gene pool? Hmmm... carry on.
And nothing of value was lost.
Awesome. As a woman, I cannot wait for the day men will be so occupied with a robot waifu, that we can finally walk safely at night.
Well most men don't assault women. It's always a small percentile. And since assault is often about power, not sex, I doubt that would solve anything.
It has always been dominance seeking behaviour. Testosterone's prime choice. Nothing new there.
You only have one life. It only takes one asshole to maim you for the rest of your life. Can't afford to lose your life.
As a dude, it pains me that this is the current state of affairs. I wish things were better for both men and women (and all others too).
Would you feel better knowing that it's actually not, and 'stranger jumping person in a dark alley' type attacks are extremely rare?
Got one life. Got one chance. Can't afford to lose it to a rare occurence.
That's a reason to take common sense precautions, not a reason to spend that one life paralyzed by fear.
Why do you think avoiding walking alone is a common sense precaution? It's because you cannot win the fight.
I have an even better proposition: have a gang of robot waifus/husbandos to kick the asses of any "men" who misbehave.
Don't say "men" as if they aren't human. They are men as much as the ones who aren't assholes.
didn't mean to dehumanize them, i meant that they aren't men in the sense of masculinity. theres not much thats less masculine than bothering people who don't want to be bothered.
Anything a man does, could be dubbed as masculine. Be it helping someone, or dominating someone.
Boys and men have the habit to fight moreso than girls and women. More violently too. Yet when a man assaults someone, it's somehow not masculine?
Assault is not an masculine trait, it's an action done by disgusting people regardless of gender. I wasn't assaulted often, but I was hit by women more often than men(I know that I am in the minority, but it demonstrates that violence is not inherently something based in gender).
I personally think that masculinity (or femininity) is diminished by such actions. It makes people look undisciplined and lacking morals, empathy and respect.
I also think it's important to start defining masculinity and femininity by positive traits, so young people see it and aspire to embody those traits. We need a counter-weight to the Tate's and Rogan's in this world.
Women are already safer 'walking at night' than men are, by a wide margin. And even for men it's quite rare overall.
You've been duped by fear-mongering propaganda.
Also, the fact is that any pair of people is statistically WAY less likely to be attacked in that way, than any individual. This should be the primary 'tip' at the top of the list when it comes to educating about being safe in that situation. Nothing reduces your risk more, regardless of your sex, than not being all by yourself. Nothing else comes even close.
P.S. Bonus tip, because I hate whenever I see this 'advice' making the rounds on social media or whatnot: doing some Wolverine-style shit with your keys is a stupid self-defense idea; it's ineffective and literally more likely to do damage to you than an attacker. Instead, in a pinch, it's much better to hold the largest key you have (likely car key) between thumb and index finger, and 'stab' with it like a dagger, hard as you can.
Source?
What part of this are you doubting the accuracy of? None of it is controversial (if you care about what the facts/statistics are more than what you want them to be, that is).
Ever heard of humility
Sure, it's a bit hyperbolic, but the fact of the matter is that I've never met anyone else who was as good or consistent at keeping personal feelings and biases from influencing their conclusions, not even close.
And so, so many people here think they have me figured out, and also aren't even close, because they in their lazy-mindedness are so used to putting people in their stereotype-defined buckets, instead of assessing them as individuals.
As a non native English speaker, that is the grammar mistake that most baffles me in natives. Like, how does anybody think that “of” is the right word there, how does it make sense in their heads.
True 🦴🍎☕️ material, if it weren’t that absurdly common.
I think the mistake might come from a lack of reading. The contraction "should've" is often used in speech, which might be mistakenly written as "should of" if you don't read a lot and see it written properly all the time. We've mostly lost the voiced quality of "v" at the ends of words like that, so it's basically pronounced "should-uf" in American English.
I mean, it's rather obvious it's just written down as it's spoken - like "bone apple tea". But while it's relatable that someone who doesn't know any French cannot write "bon appétit", I don't get how a native speaker could write "should of" and thinking yeah that makes complete sense.
It's also not an auto-correct problem like "there, they're, their" may have originated (I hope it did).
I understand to some extent, thanks!
No excuses. People who type should of/could of have brain dysfunction.
i just learned yesterday that apparently america teaches kids to read not by, you know, having them read things, but by memorizing made-up rules to.. guess at how words are pronounced and what they mean..
this uh, explains a lot about why america is why it is, i feel.
When spoken should've can sound a lot like should of or shoulda depending on the dialect. Most native speakers don't really think about gammer rules when writing informally, they just write how they speak.
shoulda makes vastly more sense, and is precisely the kind of thing that tends to become slang and eventually just the standard spelling, like "dunno" or "gotcha".
"should of" just feels like people know it should be two words, but don't know how it's spelled, and instead of just spelling it phonetically they make something half-phonetic up.
I say shoulda, gonna, etc. I'm never going to mix up should've with should of. It doesn't make ANY fucking sense typed out. I discount everything else a person has said if they type either.
Should of is so much worse though. There/they're/their I can excuse as being dyslexic or English as a second language. But should of/could of speaks to a deep problem. The person who types it does not consider what they say.
I think it comes from people shortening it to should've which then got warped into should of
Automatically screams "uneducated" to me. Such an easy thing to not get wrong.
The idea that Musk would have a black robot girlfriend is the most unbelievable part of this.
That was probably just a mistake from the racist image generator secretly adding the word black to the prompt
One of the best happy little accidents llm have brought upon us.
I wouldn't put it past him to forcibly impregnate some diamond mine staff
*Emerald mine
I stand corrected
Racism and objectification go hand in hand though, plenty of real world evidence of that, from Jefferson to Strom Thurmond.
I feel like someone, somewhere, ate the onion.
At this point, I think the universe has eaten the onion.
lol this would be amazing news for straight women. it should be super cheap and accessible too. imagine the number of weirdos who will preliminate themselves from dating before you even know them. what a wonderful gift to the world. it's great for straight men too, if the women won't have to spelunk through so much garbage to find a normal dude.
It's subjective who's a normal dude and whether that intersects with weirdos who preliminate (interesting word) themselves from dating before you even know them.
I'm definitely in the latter group except for a few very rare events (all of which did not end very well, though for some of them others say I dodged a bullet, and for some of them I've reevaluated the events and myself think I dodged a bullet, though the person is good, but they too have problems unfixed yet which would make it a dumpster fire, and some of them ended such a nightmare that I suspect I should be glad we weren't deeper into things ... tldr I'm one of those weirdos)
But this really would be amazing news for everyone if we assume a good enough physical imitation is possible. Let them. Plastic grass, fabric flowers, rubber "stone" or "brick" walls, electric fireplaces, search engines instead of actually judging for yourself whom you'd want to ask and what you'd want to read, social media instead of a forum (the Roman one, though early 00s ones were good) or a homepage, fashion degenerating into all girls at night looking the same (outdoors), the "genial" and "non-mainstream" authors' names being known to every high schooler and all the same unlike Stanislaw Lem and Isaac Asimov and Chesterton and Simak and even Tolkien and Lewis, instead of ancap (like it or not, it's a very firm and characteristic ideology, that has influenced cyberpunk in both ways) optimism\pessimism only cryptoscams and Gab and alt-rights around, instead of new computer-powered amazing art - some plagiarism machines, instead of transhumanism - some very persuasive bots, it makes sense that at some point this should come to moving dolls instead of romantic partners, and if people don't choke on the rest in this list, they won't choke on that too.
We do have Harlowe's monkey studies that do indicate that even imitation is better than nothing.
My guess is that this plays along oxytocin receptors, which is also why things like weighted blankets do kind of work, social media does kinda work, etc. People can also take inhalable oxytocin.
There is no replacement for unconditional love (which means love that respects boundaries unconditionally as extensions of a person and their autonomy) and community though. But that doesn't mean women should endanger themselves so dangerous men who enjoy being controlling (like Musk) can have oxytocin. Because then that means women don't get unconditional love and respect for their boundaries and safety.
I am agreeable to these robots but I also have some reservations as a sex worker. First, there is a substantial male population who cannot hire sex workers because they have been blacklisted for various reasons. These men could benefit from a doll for sure. Second, similar to AI deepfake concerns - some of these men are basing dolls off real people, and some are pedophiles- what stops them from ordering a doll that looks just like the little girl next door? And what stops them from filming material harming and torturing these dolls and selling it online? Including material that could involve animals, feces, or other taboo/illegal/defamatory acts? That's likely currently legal depending on the doll's appearance (how young it appears) and local laws. Yes, it's just a doll, so that's better than the huge curremt online presence of monkey torture and real human torture. But don't you think that's also bad in some way too? On one hand, it's comparatively a good outlet. On the other hand, holy fuck
Yeah, holy fuck, the morality waters get very murky very quickly when the topic of sex robots come up especially when it concerns taboo and illegal fetishism.
Content warning: moral discussions of sex-bots for very taboo fetishes below.
I think it mostly comes down to people's personal tolerance of "ick" i.e. how much person A judges a fetish that person B has that person A is not into.
Some people are, understandably, completely turned off or even horrified at taboo kinks like age-play, roleplay-incest, CNC, scat, blood, etc.
Heck I've even seen some articles that argue that "mainstream" BDSM is the fetishization of women's suffering and therefore inherently misogynistic. But I don't think that's a common viewpoint and not one I hold either.
Personally, I don't care what sex thing people are into that doesn't involve me so long as it's not causing harm and it's between consenting adults.
So springboarding off your comment about pedophilia and beastiality, which are both illegal for extremely good reasons: would sex-dolls or sex-robots for both/either be harm-reduction or harm-enabling?
On the argument for harm reduction; it's an outlet for those fetishes that has no victim. Therefore it could prevent those who have that fetish from victimising children and animals because it's much less risky and not illegal to use a sex-doll/robot for those purposes in private solitude. And who should care what weird things people get up to in private so long as it does no harm to others.
On the argument for harm enabling; it could push illegal fetishes that are quite rightly shunned by society towards normalisation. Shame is a powerful emotional tool used in animal social groups to discourage behaviour of individuals that are harmful to the group.
In a similar way if someone says something weird in person in front of a group of people they want to be accepted in they get ridiculed, feel shame and embarrassment for saying something weird, and don't say it again in that group.
Now with social media, those people who have the same weird opinion (just to be clear everyone has at least a few weird opinions, no exceptions there) can find eachother and echo-chamber themselves, calcify their opinions into more extreme forms, and occasionally act them out in the physical world causing harm to others.
What happens when the technology of social media collides with the technology of sex bots? Like with the hypotheticals you gave of people "stealing" identities of celebrities to make their own sex bots or styling them after pictures of kids they found online.
What happens when they start sharing tips for making animal sex-bots with more realistic fur, exploring these problematic fetishes with others which normalises the behaviour in the group, until finally one of the group decides that only the "real-thing" is good enough for them now then goes out into the world and does harm?
I don't know which side I fall on. And I don't think I will ever know until I can see some conclusive evidence one way or another.
That's as far as I will entertain these kinds of discussions because my "ick" point is when these trains of thought lead to asking the same question about simulated snuff.
Because that opens a whole other horrifying can of worms of what about making bots for simulated rape, murder, and necrophilia for those with psychopathic tendancies?
And for me it boils down to is the question "do we make objects to sell and commodify humanity's capacity for evil as recreation?".
As you are a sex worker, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on the ramblings above and please correct me if I've made any assumptions or leaps in logic.
Well, on the matter of dolls looking "just like" whoever, I think that should be legal with no reservations. The point we consider those acts you've described heinous and disgusting and so on is because real people\animals suffer. The rest is simply not our business. So if there's no real suffering involved, this is not even up to discussion.
Releasing filmed material with dolls is another issue, I think this should be considered harassment, maybe even on the "rape threat" level. But again - scaled by the real rights being violated, not by what we want and don't want others to do, because that's not our business.
I'm not sure I agree about it being a good outlet, I think you are right about not being sure. That outlet logic doesn't quite work the same with every person. Again, a person on the spectrum (like me) might use that possibility to play, and for them it will really be an outlet. A usual person with weird fetishes might do that too, or want the real thing after playing with toys enough, as with gateway drugs. A psychopath will likely have no use for toys since they only want real power over living beings.
As we all see with the Web and social media, lots of genocidal rhetoric has been normalized in the last decade that wasn't before that. Don't want to mention Azeris, but 15 years ago they (in the Russian-speaking Web) wouldn't go to common places, because those places would expel savages ; now the common places are just as degenerate and hateful. I wouldn't want the same thing to happen with torture and rape fantasies.
So - I think it's a bad thing. In private they may do with dolls as they want. In public and in the Web - depending on how realistic it is.
There's also a substantial male population for whom a woman being subservient is a turnoff, though, with knowing it's a transaction being sufficient. For such people a doll could help with some purely physical stupid things, but those are the least of lonely people's problems, so not very useful.
EDIT: Oh, another person has already said all the same things.
I'm right there with you. I'm mildly on the spectrum, though functional enough that no one would assume it unless they really got to know me, and while I am capable of having a moderate amount of success in the initial stages of dating, compatibility and styles of communication always end up being the primary issue, and that's not necessarily a failing on either party. The fact remains though that there does not seem to be many people out there that I am compatible with.
I am fortunate in that I am generally very content being alone and pursuing things that are of interest to me for very long periods of time (the only thing I really noticed during Covid lock downs was that my commute to work was faster, while my much more social partner at the time suffered a lot mental health wise). Despite that I am, unfortunately, still human and desire a certain amount of intimacy and connection with another person. I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but if you have seen the new Blade Runner movie, I could absolutely see myself with a "companion" like the holographic one the main character has in his apartment.
Well, my notable spectrum-related personal trait is that I want to know the truth about things, so falling in love with pictures just won't work, I won't be able to expel from my mind the fact that it's not real in any regard.
Unless a machine conscience of human kind becomes real.
Haven't seen the new one yet.
That's completely understandable.
I'm not sure if you are speaking generally, or to what I said specifically, but it may be worth adding a little bit more context for what I said originally. It is highly unlikely I would fall in love with an AI in the scenario I described above. It would more be about scratching an itch for certain kinds of interactions that I may not otherwise be able to have. I'm not sure it's a perfect analogy, but it might be similar to the way I care about a character in a book or game, or maybe how I feel about a pet.
I think if we got to the point where an AI had human levels of general intelligence and emotion this conversation would be somewhat moot. The world would be so drastically different I don't even know what kinds of assumptions to make about it to have a productive conversion about it.
Also not even real
I'm looking forward to the anguished screeching when they find out that male sexbots will be a thing too.
Would be an interesting timeline if your hookup line is: "Hey, our sexbots should totally smash."
We're just a few pandemics away from that.
I refuse to believe this is a real post.
That's good, cause it's very clearly not a real post. Just someone who made some AI images for lulz.
"Robot files for first robot-human divorce from musk"
I love the logic here: if you won't fuck us, we'll fuck machines.
that'll show 'em. goddamn.
I mean, for the crowd of people we're referencing here, that's probably easier than them learning how to not be complete shitbag assholes to women.
not wrong... not wrong at all.
Machines: actually…
Detroit: Become Human
I am 100% behind this. If you want to fuck a robot because "western women" are "to blame" then you go right ahead. Take you and your robot back home and don't come out until you can play well with others.
Deal
I don't know why people are downvoting you. I applaud your honesty. Have you considered shutting yourself away with a sex doll while you wait for a robot sex slave? It would save us all much consternation.
He'll believe the robot wives when they pay him the compliments he programmed them to give.
No big surprise we have a anti feminism group here in Australia.
Probably full of the same dickheads causing all issues here in Australia (lots of them tend to be construction or truckies for whatever reason)
Rupert Murdoch didn't fall out of eucalyptus tree?
Although I'm certain he's smooth brained like a koala.
Probably has chlymidia like most of them too
There are anti-feminists groups in every developed country.
I don't think men want robot wives. Believe it or not most men actually like women and enjoy their company. A robot could never compare.
Current news articles:
I wish those guys had had a doll. But no, nothing is quite as good as a living woman to control instead ig.
There are 2 distinct types of love. Unconditional love, and conditional love. These 2 types actually oppose each other.
Unconditional love means "I love you, including your boundaries, and I will respect those boundaries as a show of love even if that means we cannot be together because it conflicts with my boundaries."
Conditional love means, "You must prove you love me by sacrificing your boundaries and personhood. Your boundaries and autonomy show you do not love me and thus upset me. Being willing to separate to keep boundaries intact shows you can escape my control, which terrifies me." Narcissistic relationships feature conditional love quite strongly. They often require heavy enmeshment as part of this boundary trampling. This is also the same type of "love" or relationship dynamic that exists from a boss to an employee. Or a slaver to a slave. There's a reason these guys who love controlling women would actually benefit from a doll. But dolls aren't usually "good enough" because they don't have boundaries to violate even though they allow for ultimate control. This is also why conservative men REALLY REALLY like leftist women and not their fellow conservative women - more torture potential and boundary violation potential.
No but incels would love sexbot maids. Honestly it probably wouldn't be the worst thing for society.
What do you mean by "men actually like women"? This is wrong, women are hated!
Very
Only western women though, they are the degenerate ones that deserve being made obsolete. Nice Slavs and Asian women are obedient and keen to home slavery, so they won’t be impacted by this competition. Thank god.
Elon Musk believes that population decline is a real problem. Well, there is enough African, Latino and Indian kids but those are not the children he wants.
Yep, this whole worry about 'fertility' and all that always had that white supremacist stink.
On je kunda špinavá, if I may attempt to speak your language
Very correct but why?
Maybe they're trying to learn Czech?
Give me an objective reason to learn Czech unless you're being raised in the Czech Republic or one of its colonies
Dunno, I suck at learning languages, gave up after English, and I only got passable at it after spending some time in Ireland. Maybe I'll try Spanish some day.
I do, however, have a friend who just likes learning languages. He's at his fifth now, and deciding between Polish and Czech. Some people are just language freaks, I guess.
It's weird that no one is even questioning where the robot husbandos are.
Especially since, like, women have been using machines to pleasure themselves for a while now and it's still kind of a novelty for most het cis men
It’s because of societal issues. Women’s sex toys are glamorized and “fun” to talk about, but men’s sex toys are characterized as gross and incel.
Don't you know? Cis het men are perfectly fine using couches for their pleasure
You know theyre out there.
Damn imagine being the richest man alive and all you can do to get a picture with women is “make” your own ai
Interesting, now that you say that... He's got 12 kids. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of him with any of the mothers.
These are automated body pillows. FTFY.
But he can’t even get a self driving car right. Why would I believe that he can replicate women before that?
Help! My dick got stuck in my Titsla Cybercuck while it was updating, and I'm gonna be late for work!
Have an upboat for titsla cybercuck.
Dons boomer hat
Well we all know women can't drive either, am I right fellas?
Turns toward camera. Cue laugh track
These people are just interested in fuck toys, not actual people.
Even if we would assume I wanted a sex robot, I ain't using no sex robot that came from Elon Musk.
https://mashable.com/article/tesla-cybertruck-cut-finger-door-release-pillar-button
Misogynists and fascists like disgusting Elon aside, I do believe there is a serious problem on the horizon.
Just existing AI capabilities, "cyberdildonics" and virtual reality headsets. It doesn't have to be a full sized sex robot, simple hardware like the handy already exists.
Imagine combining that with a ChatGPT and video generating AI that is designed to create "engagement" similar to how social media does this - not just with sexual pleasure but also through generated stories creating a pseudo intimacy based on illusion.
It sounds pathetic but algorithms could relatively quickly generate the "ideal" forms of pornography and stimulation to maximize pleasure, including "aural" stimulation and sex stories. And that generated for the tastes and desires of each individual.
So there is at least the possibility of a kind of addiction or at least habit forming from a kind of "ultra porn". Long term this will lead to changes in dating and procreation and socialization, if sexual desires are being able to be fulfilled illusionary and in a fantasy world.
No matter how pathetic you think this is, it's going to be a real problem or at least disruption. Obviously it won't be a feminist "self own".
Aren't we pretty much there already? Dating and being together is about so much more than sex, the loneliness epidemic has other causes.
A lot of it has to do with options. Not good or bad, but options.
You go into a store and want to buy milk, and instead of there being the local milk selections there is now 50,000 different choices. So we always seem to hold out for that more ideal option and never really select one.
This might be where modern dating is going. Fight Club talked about the single serving friend. Tinder style dating has turned us into single serving partner.
Window shopping on a hookup site is one thing, it seems a bit like some people have just not gotten the memo that that's not what a long-term relationship looks like. Superficial stuff is nice but I'd rather find someone I really, really like. Can't really window shop for that though and it might take a long, long time to actually find out if the feelings match reality.
Apparently a large amount of people are essentially casting someone for the role of partner though. Never really taking down their personality defenses, never just being themselves. Because that's being vulnerable. 1800s style. I'd rather stay single.
You're kinda describing a "doll house" from Cyberpunk 2077, except it's ai controlled humans that get their memories wiped performing the service instead of a vr headset
Eh, I think it will broadly be a good thing. Perhaps there will be addiction problems, but you can already basically see any kind of porn you want with minimal effort... This refinement will only have drastic effects on the most niche fetishists.
Plus, anyone who has tried prompting an image generator to do something that isn't a digital art image of a sexy elf in the forest knows it's a real pain to actually get models to do exactly what you want. As they get more sophisticated I don't see this changing. Porn video generation will be fraught with frustration and difficulty... Most likely generating good porn will be a whole job of its own.
Well we're both speculating, but I believe AI will advance to the point it can reliably animate a 3D animated "girlfriend" in a virtual environment and then learn how exactly how to maximize pleasure and create erotic stories. With more advance teledildonics being able to simulate different types of sex it could become better at that then the best "courtesan". Fantasy is often better than sex already, but what happens when you have visual, physical and erotic narrative woven together?
Well it certainly sounds like it will make for a great wank experience but it's not going to replace my relationship any time soon lol
Your relationship won’t be the issue. It will be the millions of high school boys who grow up with this experience rather than attempt dating. And why would they date? That person has problems, isn’t “on” 100% of the time. For a young man they can get everything they think they need from an AI wankfest.
A man can only come that many times a day, but can already doom scroll all day...
Oh no, the shittiest men in the world will stop being a problem, the horror.
More evidence men should have been given dolls as kids... brought to you by the same men who would flip out if you suggested giving dolls to boys
I'm a woman who played with dolls growing up, but I don't understand what you mean. Why would that have helped?
I highly recommend Patricia Evans' books on Verbally Abusive Relationships, and Controlling People.
Basically, when kids get dolls, they understand that they are projecting their daily issues onto the dolls. They get to dress up the doll and put their worries on the doll and do all these things with the doll. When they do that with people, typically other younger kids, they are then taught that people aren't to be treated like dolls. People aren't an extension of our selves. Thus, women tend to be socialized to have better perspective taking skills, and if they need an outlet for this type of behavior, they can use dolls or the Sims etc as a healthy outlet.
Ooh fascinating, thanks for explaining! I'll look in to her writing.
Interesting, gonna add to the list of things I should read
It's not the same but boys of my generation did play with superhero / military dolls, and some of the play scenarios could get quite elaborate.
But I suppose the dolls didn't represent regular everyday people, so there was less playing with domestic or relatable scenarios.
Not sure why you deleted this, I was hoping to reply to it. I want to apologise for projecting. I didn't think of the action figures I grew up with as real dolls until later in life.
I still think they can be a little 1 dimensional, but that's because of how they're marketed, socialized, etc
I honestly thought I was being too harsh and you didn't deserve that for just trying to perspective take and share with me.
It's important that boys play with girl dolls so they can understand the boundaries between a girl's body and a doll's body. It's okay to dress up a doll, it's not okay to dress up a girl for instance.
Ex-machina anyone?
Wasn't this one of the plot threads that the shut-away CEO who made the bots had for himself one with an Asian ethnicity (a reference to the racist stereotype that Asian women are the 'perfect' wife because they are weak and submissive 🫤) that didn't speak as a pseudo-housewife that ended up stabbing him in the finale?
This is what I thought of lmao
Both his SA bot and the main one being Turing-tested killed him in the end.
If there was ever a real-world tech billionare who was conceited/naively overconfident enough to make a murderous AI robot (designed to look like an amalgam of people's porn preferences lol) that ended up killing him, it's Elmo.
Yeah Elmo saw those films and failed to understand the message "if you think the bot you've built is sentient don't trap it and assault it because it will want to break free and stab you" lmao.
ERROR! MASSIVE CORN CLOG IN PORT 7
Ah yes, Stepford Wives wasn't dystopian at all and was in fact something to strive for.
Well, he's a eugenicist (and thinks he's got the best genes) so I'm guessing this is part of his plan to make certain populations stop breeding.
Most of everyone on Lemmy is into eugenics. Except they go the long way by claiming poor people shouldn't have kids
Well, you're the first I've seen to suggest such a thing so... you got any proof?
Go on a thread talking about cost of living or cost of children. Most views there are "if you can't afford kids don't have em" without realizing what you guys are actually suggesting. A future where only the rich get to have kids, and the poor are only there to work and die
So, no. You have exaggerated a position to the point of absurdity. Thanks for clearing that up
As if evidence would sway you
Cool. Here, let me clarify why I adamantly disagree so that it's clear it wasn't my "lack of acceptance" of your evidence as to why I wasn't swayed.
Eugenics is systemic and requires intent. If individuals make the decision to not have children because the world is hostile towards them doing so, that's an individual choice. Can't be eugenics. Hell, even discussing not having children if you can't afford it still isn't eugenics.
Now, a world being designed to be hostile towards individuals having children, that could be interpreted as eugenics. But the victims of that system making the choice the system has been made to make them make... yeah, not eugenics. Victims, not perpetrators.
So, like I said, your position is exaggeration to the point of absurdity.
And before it's brought up, while many people in power are eugenicists (white nationalists, classists, etc) I don't think the current system is intentionally designed to cut the population. It's a knock-on effect of letting the wants make policy, rather than making systems to be equitable. They just want to have everything without thinking the ramifications of their decisions all the way through.
I've been thrown into that group when I tried explaining that Idiocracy wasn't about genetics.
Malthusianism and eugenics are inseparable, not to mention both have been completely debunked, over and over and over again. Yet it persists as not just a cultural relic like phrenology but as a mode of inquiry that gets funded, researched, promoted. Even you take it seriously, "its not about killing certain people, its about killing everyone equally."
Its almost like there is a group or maybe a class of people who do the funding and own the media companies, who like this idea and want to keep it around despite it being based on lies and conjecture. And if that is true, the question becomes "why?"
I am astounded they included a woman of color in the top right.
They couldn’t figure out how to write the AI prompt for that.
These pictures are so creepy lol. Elon is gross.
Ignoring how much of a fuckup his personal projects are, if these types of robots are made and are sentient/conscious/self aware, then these incels will run into the same problem that they do with human women.
If these robots don't have those qualities, these incels will remain unfulfilled with their "partners".
Their only solution is to actually respect women and value them as equals. But they'll never do that.
Robosexuality is a sin
Electro-Gonorrhea, the noisy killer.
Speaking of sex bots…. I’m curious:
If you owned a sexbot, would you perform oral sex on it?
If it enjoyed it, sure. Maybe. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. No pun intended.
You can do whatever you want with your sexbot
Except remove that little sticker.
It'll void the guarantee.
Haha that is a good sci-fi question. Obviously not, because the joy is in giving pleasure. You can fantasize about pleasuring a women but that is not the same. Without AI sentience, a sex bot would simply be a tool to enhance your own pleasure or fantasy.
MAYBE if it was like a game or an educational tool that measures your performance so you can compete with others in cunnilingus? Hahaha but no.
Of course! People suck dildos for fun.
Naw, I only enjoy it because my spouse enjoys it.
What flavor is it?
If you can adjust the setting to waterfall I might lol
snowball the jizz bilge?
I gagged a bit writing that
Thanks, I gagged reading it
happy to share the
Fully Integrated Security Technetronic Officer reporting for duty
Fisto?
Please assume the position.
Poor Butters, he always gets the vibrating end of the stick.
This is almost certainly a troll
Yeah this is clearly AI drivel.
This was just a ploy so he could kiss some hot models.
He pays for sex already so ... And ofc it's AI
they're all ai generated lmao
Also if anything it's men who will become obsolete, probably already are we just don't yet have an incentive to use our biological tech to make it happen.
We already have VNs and dildos so idk what else we could need.
Delivery men, construction, manufacturing, mechanics, plumbers and a lot of other blue collar jobs that are mostly men and pretty difficult to automate so far
As a western woman I fucking wish
Nah, we still need you for your uterus of course. And have you seen how terrible AI recipes are? You won't be obsolete for a long time.
Oh. Well. There's always composting then.
Ladies: man or robot at night in the woods?
I think you'll find we don't dislike this one bit. 😆
Is this not just the plot to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Machina_(film) ?
What "dating crisis"?
There’s research that confirms an increase in loneliness and less sex among people. That’s not a sign of a health society.
The cause is glaringly obvious but, like officially recognizing C-PTSD, acknowledging that a hyper-commercialized hellscape is not good for the vast majority of humanity would mean needing to take actions to reduce wealth and income disparity, which would mean the handful of people making disgusting amounts of money would be impacted. An we can't have that.
Thank you for the lead. I will look into it
Incels and maggots aren't getting any
I hope they make them with teeth
He has dropped the animal-girl project on behalf of this? Shame to him! 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah wtf i need foxgirls. At least make foxgirl robots if it has to be robots
the west:
literally australia:
Is this meme or news? I can't tell.
Sounds like cherry 2000
So you made a robotic sex doll.....this is real weird, man.
Those pictures of elmo and the fembots are so creepy.
I'm confused. Are we calling musk Elmo now? Or are there more pictures I didn't see? Because calling musk Elmo is an insult to Elmo. Elmo's not facist! Elmo's only ticklish!
People have been calling him Elmo for a while now. I don't get why but it's kind of funny.
I thought it was Leon Musk, now
only in your dreams Elon
You know that these are ai generated, right?
yes?
The "robots" will only exist online.
Timeline: next year 😂🤣
she cute
I remember when people joked about Elon Musk making Catgirls with his "Tesla Model TG"
Gimme a robot that vacuums and makes the dishes.
I've got a Roomba and a dishwasher for that
Ugh…but I have to press a button to make it work.
Honestly, my dream robot is Rosie from Jetsons. Sure, make fun of me all the time, but also kept the place clean. Works for me.
Hopefully I won't have to deal with creepy girls staring then looking at me like I'm the creep.
Humanity should have never left the 20th century.
when they said West I was thinking of the American West
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. S5E15. I Was Made to Love You. Warren, what a gem of a human being that character was.
Seriously though. We’ll never be obsolete for the same reason we will never have bodily autonomy: reproduction. Until science devises a way for men to reproduce themselves in a lab. And, yes, please, do that, Science. Roe never would’ve fallen had this already been a thing.
2 things:
1, hello fellow Buffy fan! God I love that show
2, don't hate me for not citing, it's late, I'm tired, if I remember I'll find a source tomorrow. But I read semi recently that it may be possible with current tech to use skin cells to make either sperm or egg cells, enabling queer couples to have children that are biologically the offspring of both parents, regardless of the sex make up of the couple. As a gay man myself, that is a very exciting prospect. As a lonely person who's unlikely to ever be in the situation, it's less exciting. But I'm still excited for others!
But yeah, we may well be on our way to a world where it's possible for biological males and females to have children without a partner of the other sex. Which is interesting, but I don't think it'll solve sexism.
Sexism no. Lack of body autonomy? Probably.
.
Even pre fall of Roe, it’s never been as easy for a woman to get a tubal, not like it is for men to get vasectomies, and not due to the different procedural complexity.
.
Mileage varies, always, but even with kids, a woman is often refused a tubal, pre 35 yrs of age. Especially when single. Future potential husbands get cited. Yes, really. The last person I personally knew who was refused a much wanted tubal was a 26yo mother of 3, and it was 2018. The health insurance wasn’t through a religious institution either. (That can also matter, yes).
.
“You’re not married, and you might decide later to…”
I'm familiar with that bullshit. A good friend of mine has a history of really severe medical issues in her family, and tried to get her tubes tied at 30, as she and her husband decided not to have kids, and adopt instead. Her doctor didn't want to let her do it in case they changed their minds. It's none of their fucking business. That's not okay in any way, shape, or form. :/
And if he opted for a vasectomy, high odds on little to no pushback.
Imagine when one of those burst into flames
Well now I am interested. Didn’t know we could use them for a BBQ.
I love how blotchy orange his face is in kissing the lovely darker skinned bot lol. There's a sharp border on the orange ffs hahahah.
This isn’t a bad thing because there are so many lonely people who would benefit from this. But hopefully anyone who has a robot companion (wife, husband etc) isn’t buying it on subscription from Musk or the like because that’s just going to put you in a weird relationships with corpos and it’s not going to be your relationship. Follow the crypto rule, not your keys not your companion.
But, like, no. The solution to loneliness is a walkable spaces, third places, better education, etc. not making machines that emulate human speech with no thoughts.
Those too, I agree. But there’s something unique about being able to voice out your inner fears, insecurities and anxieties with a companion and have them listen. They don’t even need to solution anything with you, necessarily. A lot of people, not just men, are lacking that when they’re lonely.
I hate that someone like OpenAI or Musk or Amazon are going to capitalize on this space in the worst possible ways. We need more empathy driven technology development, kinda like an actionable Hippocratic Oath for software dev
And the birth rate goes down more. Unless they have artificial wombs?
This will solve femicide.
Feminists will no doubt be irked at least
Found the incel!
Best break that mirror then
How's your robot wife? Does she remind you to take your meds?
what the fuck did i just read
Actual brain-rot or a bot.
I hope it's a bot because it's less tragic.
As a dominatrix, I am indeed paid to do these things by the people who request it for their own self. Including helping people get hormones, reminding them to take it as directed by a doctor, teaching them makeup, etc. This is discussed ahead of time of course, always with safewords, and I see myself as more of a guiding femme force.
I also do "force" some of my subs to go on dates with others. Some men want to be forced to suck dick, it's true. Again, safewords and metadiscussions.
There will always be a market for sex and sex workers. Sex is just plain fun. Hedonism feels good. The idea of these dolls replacing/threatening a sex club or sex partners is funny because that's not what many of these sexual experiences are even about - its not about sexual control or coercion. It's about enjoying the moment hedonistically and often judgement free, while being completely safe. It's also about being a bit taboo and naughty, maybe a little risky. Sure, a person could bring their doll to a sex club and experience that too, and that's fine. But it's not going to replace women there like you're hoping.
Having dolls like this available is good in many ways (see my other comment itt), especially because there is a large large male population who cannot hire sex workers in person for various reasons. Like for any amount of money. So those guys could probably benefit from something. Ofc, this post isn't actually real so we are just speaking in general here.