I would rather hope that he legalizes and codifies the "flat" management structure, disallowing any one figure head from taking over and fucking things up.
Valve annoys people because it can be slow to choose to do something, because everyone works on what they want to work on, but it means average workers have a lot more agency in how they're involved in the company.
I'm sure there's till unofficial cliques and leaders, but having it in legalese for the employees post-Gabe would be nice.
I would argue the flat management makes it hard for Valve to produce things and they should re-evaluate it, but you can do this while also not turning into a rank and yank shit out fortnite clones 420 69 flossing scheme to fuck over users and line their pockets.
I think that's a valid take, and I think Valve has sort of re-evaluated it, because if I recall correctly, they kind of had to "put on hold" the "do whatever you want" bit to get Half Life: Alyx out of the door. So, imho, it seems like they're capable of doing both. They managed to produce a high quality VR game by putting the "flat" on the backburner, and them coming back to it later.
Although, to be fair, I hadn't heard anything similar about the SteamDeck or any Valve hardware, really. So if they can make a SteamDeck from scratch, an entire new product category, with the flat management structure, I bet it's not holding them back half as much as some folks at GlassDoor seem to think.
Its really hard to get a look inside Valve, because I can't confirm/deny the Steam Deck came about because of the flat management. I'll be honest, my apprehension about their management stems from the many failed attempts to conclude the franchise they started in Half-Life and how 20 different projects died to get to Alyx. Would a change in leadership get us more of the same? Maybe. It would probably be a substandard product, and i'm still recovering from Starfield being mid.
The problem with that is that they're a private company so that can just be undone by the largest share holder, unless that codification also splits up his equity across the employees.
Tbf as long as it doesn't go public it will probably be fine regardless of who takes the job. It doesn't take a genius to keep up the good work in a company that can afford to plan long time.
I guess you've never had a "new boss" come in, huh? Even in a private company?
Man, new bosses love to shake things up, to "make the workplace theirs." It's literally one of the most common things to happen when new bosses come, and very often it results in a deep change in company interpersonal politics.
Barry used to be your go-to guy, but the new boss has decided they just don't like Barry. Why? They couldn't tell you, but Barry gets under their skin, so it doesn't matter how he's the best guy on the team who can handle whatever is thrown at him, his role is going to be dilluted and minimized and he's going to be pushed and prodded by negative management to try to get him to just quit. Eventually, Barry will just quit because who wants to work under those conditions. Barry found a better job, and now he's replaced by your new bosses 20-something nephew who doesn't know what the fuck he is doing at all and everyone can't stand. He's a fucking loser who keeps getting promoted by the new boss.
I've been through that too many times to pretend it's just "that easy." No, generally the kind of people drawn to that role are controlling dickheads who have their own dickhead "vision" of being the biggest dickhead to ever dickhead.
But how am I supposed to prove my exorbitant salary if I can't prove I'm doing something. If I don't change anything they'll realize I don't do anything and can't do anything! As for my next idea, we need to put ads in steam because everybody is doing it. And people should watch a promo video before their game starts because look at how successful YouTube is! I'm a genius for doing this. YOU ALL JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.
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Have seen it. Good managers walk in and watch their team for months to learn how things work before making changes. Bad managers walk in and change things before learning why they work the way they do. We saw that with Twitter/X.
Unless they fuck it up somehow in recruiting a new CEO, Valve really wouldn't find it hard to ask a new CEO "Here's our revenue, and our expenses, our profits. How would you keep this in place without crashing our revenue stream and maybe doing new greenfield stuff?"
If their first words are: "Well, I like the idea of charging our customers an install fee..." you know to keep looking.
You are right in that Steam would probably continue on just fine on autopilot. You might not be right by assuming that the sort of person who would seek to and achieve such a position wouldn't let their own ego dictate every decision--change for change's sake so that they can point at how wonderful they are at the job.
While nepotism is almost universally a bad thing, Gabe has shown that he does not subscribe to the "profit at any cost" school of business, but instead believes that if you provide a good service people will pay you for it. Hopefully he's been able to pass those values on to his son.
My concern is his son despite having this shit DRILLED INTO HIS HEAD (which I can't guarantee) will chase a cashout. That's the one problem with nepos.
The other problem is if he's qualified for the job. Which feeds into point 1.
Yesterday I bought something on Steam for the first time in many years. (I have a large Steam library, but in recent years I've been getting games from gog and itch instead.)
Since I hadn't bought from Steam in a long time I figured I should read the "Steam Subscriber agreement" that you have to click to accept when you buy something. Let me just say now, the agreement is a very very bad deal for customers.
It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don't own anything. You aren't buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement. And the best bit:
Furthermore, Valve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) unilaterally at any time in its sole discretion.
So by using Steam we're putting a lot of trust in Valve; because the 'agreement' basically says they can do whatever they want, any time they want, for any reason they want.
Steam is quite good. I particularly appreciate their Linux support. But they are clearly using their position of dominance to make people agree to unfavourable terms. At the moment, things are fine. But make no mistake - when you use Steam, Valve has all the power. They can screw people over whenever they choose to.
With all that in mind, buying DRM free is better if you want to still have access to the software when a company decides to change direction for whatever reason.
Apparently you like to read. Open the EULA for basically any commercial software (not FOSS or open source, costs money, isn't made by some small company, basically the same criteria as >90% of the games on Steam) and you are going to learn 2 things very quickly. First, all of them are just a license to use, and second, if there are patches or an online component you will have at least as many caveats and restrictions as what is included in the Steam TOS.
Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm okay with this situation (I look for open source, free, then paid for all the software that lets me do whatever it is I'm trying to do), but the situation with Steam is very typical.
Terms like that matters more for some services than for others. For something like Spotify or Netflix, if they terminate the agreement it doesn't matter much. You lose access, but there was no accumulated value. So you can just go somewhere with only minor inconvenience. Whereas on Steam, if they terminate the agreement then you could lose decades worth of accumulated games from your library - which could be very valuable. So that's a big difference.
Now, it's unlikely that Steam will just press delete on everyone's account. But we can imagine a very profit-hungry leader taking over Steam and deciding to put the squeeze on their vast user-base. There are many things they could do; such as adding ads, requiring 'consent' to include spyware on your computer, or charging additional fees. Long term users would not be in a position to refuse these things, because their Steam library is being held as collateral.
If you trust that Steam is never going to give you up, and never going to let you down, etc. Then there is no problem. Things are currently going fine, and they may continue to be fine for a very long time. It's just a matter of trust, and power, and hedging.
The thing here is, people will talk and if there are any serious issues, a lot of people, myself included, will have no moral objection to pirating the games they already paid for access to. And in some jurisdictions, it won't even be illegal. Like with most enshittification situations, it isn't going to be there one day and gone the next, so liberating your games won't be overly difficult.
The big gotcha will be online multi-player games. If you don't have a server, the client doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter, Steam offers DRM free games. Steam DRM is opt-in and can be broken by anyone in seconds, and games with other DRM have a big glowing warning on their store page. You give money to Steam for their servers that support multiplayer, their workshop, seamless patching, user forums, image hosting, controller support, Proton for Linux, SteamDB, easy multiplayer via the friends interface, achievement tracking, and a large majority cut to the developers. Your complaints apply to basically every storefront, the only way you'll own data is by having it on your own disk which Steam lets you do.
Depends on the game, sometimes you can just delete the steam dll next to the executable, others require a steam emulator which amounts to just dropping in a spoofed steam dll. I think the preferred emulator these days is Goldberg steam emu on gitlab.
I just threw up a little bit thinking about that future that 100% is coming when the business school fuckheads take over valve.
There is no "good will" towards customers, it's everything is a service and every single aspect of our product should be monetized... Downloading is a cost, monetize it! Browsing libraries has eyeballs focused on it, advertise!
Is it being a Stan to recognize all of the so called "competition" is dog shit? You want more competition? Provide better alternatives, there are VERY FEW corp's with the pro customer attitude history that Valve has
Valve hasn't screwed us over yet, and that's why I like them very much. Now. But neither did Google or Reddit, in the beginning. In fact, Reddit was a safe haven for people who left Digg after it became pay to win, and look at them now.
It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don't own anything. You aren't buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement.
True, but:
but in recent years I've been getting games from gog
GOG shills always claim their platform is better because muh DRM-free games and actual ownership but GOG's User Agreement states:
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a 'licence') to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on.
Yeah. That's the difference. GOG can withdraw their services, but not the software that you've downloaded. Whereas Steam explicitly states that using the software may require their services (and it usually does).
It's to keep people from doing stuff like requiring refunds or court cases for being banned, VAC or otherwise. To make some things not technically gambling, etc.
Valve is the paragon of gamers. They offer a great portal, free no bs family shares, pressure companies into sales on legacy software. Push VR from meme status (the oculus is even originally stolen valve tech look it up). Steam stream, steam controller, steam deck emulation of Nintendo switch, Jesus it's endless.
And still there are people like you out here who have to lead with complaints about a bunch of text which everyone knows is exclusively for legal piss matches against companies and troublemakers.
I don't know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn't your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?
The company may be nice now and it's okay to be happy with them, but that doesn't mean you attack the personality of someone for pointing out factual information written in your beloved companies agreements.
I will never ever understand how a normal person can ever worship / love a corporation.... It has to be some kind of mental illness.
Corporations DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU! Sooner or later they will fuck you unless you are constantly pushing back against them and keeping them on their toes. Relaxing, just becuase Steam is good right now, is not a option.
I don’t know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn’t your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?
wtf man. Did someone shit in your breakfast cereal or something?
You're the one getting mad at steam for things they could "maybe" do in the future. Stop incepting yourself with fantasy and then posting about it. "Hey guys you won't BELIEVE what's in this EULA" "Did you know TECHNICALLY valve could just do whatever they want?!?"
From your post history you're older, you know EULAs are so ignored across the board that they're there for entirely legal reasons. Oh yeah a company that has done all this good, (for you especially, without valve it's safe to say there would be ZERO Linux gaming support like there is now.) But we better be ready for something that's just completely antithetical to their history of actions because of some creative writing episode you've dreamed up. Corporations are bad capitalism is bad, open software and Linux gaming only please. No rights, no AAA just indie titles and slow burn, artistically crafted projects of love.
You're like the vegans of computer science you're insufferable.
People probably felt the same way Unity's relatively fair licensing terms, or D&D's license. They've rolled back now, but it's common for companies to push this sort of thing, roll back, and then slowly introduce the same thing.
The point is not to avoid Steam, but to keep an eye out for scummy moves because no entity operating for profit is immune to temptation. Be ready to abandon ship should the time come or you'll be the one left holding the bag.
NoOoOoO. You're not allowed to bad mouth Steam here. Everything steam does is amazing. Steam is nothing like those filthy console companies. Steam good guys. Steam forever friend
...get physically pulled into valves code? Not sure how that happens lol
🎵 One clicked on files they shouldn't dare
Now lost in code, they've disappeared in air
Gaben warned, but they didn't heed
Now in the depths of Steam, they'll forever plead
🎵 Oompa loompa doompety dah
If you're not careful, you'll go too far
Respect the rules when visiting Gaben's lair
Or vanish forever, lost in Valve's software!
"Can't click heads? Don't worry about it, because this AWP follows its namesake by finding clickable heads for you. Just aim down the sights and let the HeadTrak tech do the rest."
Available in limited edition Season 7 Pass Lv.50, Lv.75, and Lv.100 Crates.
Oh shid and cume. Isn't that sorta what the free loot cards are? The ones you get randomly for doing stuff in games. Iirc you can sell them on their marketplace for money. It isn't unreasonable for a new dick head CEO to just overhaul that system into a more active gacha system for all their games.
If a game is on GOG, I'd rather buy it there than on steam. Steam is great and they do a lot of great stuff, but you don't own the game if you buy it through steam.
I'm very anti-DRM as well, but I'm willing to give Valve my money even if there's a chance I lose my game down the line. Some of that money's going towards Proton and making Linux more popular
That, sadly, is the future. Valve is one of those rare companies that put out something interesting then got out of the way so that others could put out their ideas. Steam and PAX are a fantastic way to enable the creativity of others. I will keep my fingers crossed that this all works out, but I am fully prepared to be sad between now and, say, 10 years in the future.
The same reason countless studios have destroyed successful IPs (like EA). Sure it’s profitable but it could be MORE profitable. Sales were up last year? Cool story, have sales improved over that this year though??
It's not just shareholders, I mean that's a huge part why public corporations endlessly seek growth. But, even private corporations are beholden to capitalism's inherent growth imperative.
The only way to maintain solvency is to grow. Without growth you can't save, and if you can't save, you can't accumulate investment capital. Which basically means your corporation is stuck in stagnation and is being eaten alive by interest rates.
If you aren't investing back into your company as much as your competitors then they will eventually push you out of the market. It's called the Growth imperative .
Putting back into your company is fine. It's the endless profiteering that sucks, and that ultimately reduces customer experience. Steam keeps it's niche specifically by producing a great customer experience, and getting out of the way.
Steam is also putting back into their company. But there's no need for enshittification. That's a publicly-traded-company, tragedy-of-the-commons thing.
Wtf are you babbling about? What salary man do you know that's "elite"? They aren't even petite bourgeoisie, they just think they are. The middle class is dead.
A CEO isn't a salary man.... A salary man is just a white collar worker who works for a salary, not hourly. Which is typically taken advantage of by having them work a tremendous amount of unpaid overtime.
Also, salaries are generally the least attractive part of being paid as a CEO. Taking the majority of your compensation as stock options allows you to avoid income tax.
Because MBA- and CEO-brains say that raking in money hand over fist doesn't matter unless you can rake in consistently more and more money hand over fist. What normal people see as stable profits, they see as underperforming versus the bigger profits they see only in their head.
But if we add a subscription required to access already bought game we would surely make more money this quarter. Or how about charging for online play.
In the end, the people who make these sorts of decisions will often bail out with their quarterly bonuses before the poo hits the fan. It's everyone else who has to deal with the fallout.
So he's going to stay in his position way past when he reasonably should because of pride and not take advice from his friends and family to step down so he could transfer power to a worthy successor?
Let's not place all the blame on her Republicans were going to let Obama place anyone on the supreme Court. They rejected all his nominations. It was wait for Democrats to have full control or hang on cause Republicans wouldn't let anyone but a Republican get nominated.
She was damned if she did damned if she didn't. But cause see hanged on we all blamed her instead of rightful raging at McConnell
Republicans seem to throw their weight around all the time and never need this excuse. Dems have no teeth, they never have. They had 2 years of full control during Obama's first term and couldn't get anything done and let the GOP carve up Affordable Care just so they could take pretend it was bipartisan. The excuses just get old, I've been hearing them since they let bush steal the election
Well his name didn't show up in Epstein's public records (unlike a certain CEO from a company Microsoft bought/CEO that founded/ran Microsoft) so we're fine there.
And I did look. Extensively.
It's a good sign because 1) He's smart enough to not have a paper trail and/or 2) His hobbies are innocuous, like, I think he really only cares about submersibles and knives and he wasn't stabbing people on some carbon fiber tube near the titanic so he's not a dumbass either.
You know, when I worked in retail, the store would obviously buy up stock from suppliers for a price and then sell it for profit. I don't know all the technical terms in English, but in order for the stores to actually make money at the end of the day we had a goal of reaching that exact amount of profit, 30% of the retail price. So how exactly is this different from retail stores? Sure, they don't have to actually buy up stock, but the game companies don't have to make physical copies either. It's not like the game companies would make 100% of the money if they sold them elsewhere.
they would get really close to 100% as selling themselves would only have the cost of running a website. But on the other hand steam makes it easy for people to actually discover indie games so if an indie studio sold their game only on their own website will lose on a lot of potential customers.
Amazon has an audiobook monopoly and takes 87% cut of audible sales unless the author agrees to exclusively sell through audible. If you agree to exclusively sell through audible, Amazon only takes 79% cut of the sale. Officially they claim to take 75% and 60% cuts (for non-exclusive and exclusive), but they actually pay out considerably less than they promise.
That's what a monopoly abusing it's power to steal from creators looks like. Valve's 30% is literally market standard, and is so much lower than they could get away with.
I have listened to a ton of game developer talks over the years. Some of the old indie devs that have given talks basically all welcomed steam because it meant that they didn't have to deal with all of the stuff that steam does themselves. Before people started buying games through steam, doing an acceptable level of DRM, distribution, payments, refunds, etc. was all hand-rolled, for each company.
You can still do that yourself. Why do people stick with steam with the supposedly onerous 30% cut? It's because steam provides a valuable service. Now the people that build games don't have to deal as much with the things that aren't building games.
In my opinion, a platform like Steam was bound to emerge at some point. Let's thank our fucking stars that the company that "won" is not beholden to any shareholder and is run by a gamer that understands what people who love video games needed.
If you think that the 30% cut is too high, there's nothing stopping you from building all the infrastructure yourself. And there are plenty of companies that have done so, like Epic and, until recently, Sony.
But I would say unless you are a team building AAA games and making millions and millions a year, where the savings you can realize outweigh the cost of rolling your own infrastructure, steam is kind of a good deal.
this is a very multi faceted issue. me for example would be happy if devs got a bigger cut, but god damn if valve keeps pumping out good and sustainable devices and systems like steam deck, I'll continue to buy everything from them. I'm mad at companies who reinforce microsofts trash OS and everyone who builds unrepairable/unrepurposable laptops and consoles.
Which is totally fair in the case of steam. They actually provide a valuable service in comparison to the app stores, both to users and publishers. You are free from publishing outside of steam.
Lemmy: Corporations are terrible. None of them have your back. They're all just out to make money and the only reason they pay their employees is because slavery is illegal.
Look, despite Musk's PR, I never read a story about Musk like this:
In 2004, Wolpaw was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Expecting his condition to require a departure from the company, he spoke with managing director Gabe Newell, who surprised him by offering an extended leave with pay. "Your job is to get better," Newell said. "That is your job description at Valve. So go home to your wife and come back when you are better."
Gabe Newell isn't some kind of saint, but he does at least treat his employees like human beings, unlike Musk who famously berates his employees and treats them incredibly badly, especially if they have to (gasp!) miss work for any reason.
So while people shouldn't be praising Valve as some kind of panacea in the world, because they're still just a company, the reality is things like this have endeared Newell to the gaming community and made them believe he did care about a quality work environment.
A reminder, 2004 was before Wolpaw had written for multiple hit games from Valve. Portal came out in 2007 with Wolpaw as one half of the writing team. A few years later he would be head writer on Portal 2.
Those games would not have been the same if he had been let go from Valve when he was sick with ulcerative colitis.
Just a different perspective, I think it's unfair to compare Newell to a fucking slave drive apartheid fuckhead like Musk.
that's exactly what will happen. Valve is a gaming giant because their services offer a paid experience tenfold better than the free piracy, if said exerience becomes shit, well, no reason to keep hanging around is there?
Valve has been compared to Lord of the Flies because of its corporate structure by multiple people who worked for them. The company has an internal ranking system that determines compensation. It's also one of the least diverse workplaces in its industry, being overwhelmingly white and male.
So, while I'm glad that Gabe was nice to one of his direct reports, the reality is that the president of the company being nice to one specific person doesn't make the company good or ethically ran.
Gabe Newell has made some of the best games and Steam is the best platform for consumers, sure Epic Games is better for developers but it's not great to actually use as a consumer.
Did he/she lie? Steam is not even the least bad launcher. GOG offers DRM free games that don't even require a launcher.
Also don't forget that Valve probaly insane ammount of money with Microtransactions and Lootboxes and has essentially implemented NFTs into their games (without a blockchain) years before that word even existed.
True then; true now. People who asskiss Valve (and Gaben by extension) are victims of years of effective marketing. Valve is as greedy and duplicitous as any other corporation. You're just looking at it through rose colored glasses because it's the primary mechanism by which you access your hobby.
Exactly, its so wild how the gaming sheepherd got up in arms about NFTs and microtransactions when this shit existed for years in CS:GO, TF2 and Dota 2 and was 100% tollerated.
Also TF2 - the balls of this company to add new cases and cosmetics while the game was overrun with hackers and bots... my lord!
I'm actually pretty worried about him dying. Hopefully he has a chosen successor that he's indoctrinated.
I would rather hope that he legalizes and codifies the "flat" management structure, disallowing any one figure head from taking over and fucking things up.
Valve annoys people because it can be slow to choose to do something, because everyone works on what they want to work on, but it means average workers have a lot more agency in how they're involved in the company.
I'm sure there's till unofficial cliques and leaders, but having it in legalese for the employees post-Gabe would be nice.
I would argue the flat management makes it hard for Valve to produce things and they should re-evaluate it, but you can do this while also not turning into a rank and yank shit out fortnite clones 420 69 flossing scheme to fuck over users and line their pockets.
I think that's a valid take, and I think Valve has sort of re-evaluated it, because if I recall correctly, they kind of had to "put on hold" the "do whatever you want" bit to get Half Life: Alyx out of the door. So, imho, it seems like they're capable of doing both. They managed to produce a high quality VR game by putting the "flat" on the backburner, and them coming back to it later.
Although, to be fair, I hadn't heard anything similar about the SteamDeck or any Valve hardware, really. So if they can make a SteamDeck from scratch, an entire new product category, with the flat management structure, I bet it's not holding them back half as much as some folks at GlassDoor seem to think.
Its really hard to get a look inside Valve, because I can't confirm/deny the Steam Deck came about because of the flat management. I'll be honest, my apprehension about their management stems from the many failed attempts to conclude the franchise they started in Half-Life and how 20 different projects died to get to Alyx. Would a change in leadership get us more of the same? Maybe. It would probably be a substandard product, and i'm still recovering from Starfield being mid.
Starfield was Bethesda, though. Eons of distance between those two studios.
The problem with that is that they're a private company so that can just be undone by the largest share holder, unless that codification also splits up his equity across the employees.
Tbf as long as it doesn't go public it will probably be fine regardless of who takes the job. It doesn't take a genius to keep up the good work in a company that can afford to plan long time.
I guess you've never had a "new boss" come in, huh? Even in a private company?
Man, new bosses love to shake things up, to "make the workplace theirs." It's literally one of the most common things to happen when new bosses come, and very often it results in a deep change in company interpersonal politics.
Barry used to be your go-to guy, but the new boss has decided they just don't like Barry. Why? They couldn't tell you, but Barry gets under their skin, so it doesn't matter how he's the best guy on the team who can handle whatever is thrown at him, his role is going to be dilluted and minimized and he's going to be pushed and prodded by negative management to try to get him to just quit. Eventually, Barry will just quit because who wants to work under those conditions. Barry found a better job, and now he's replaced by your new bosses 20-something nephew who doesn't know what the fuck he is doing at all and everyone can't stand. He's a fucking loser who keeps getting promoted by the new boss.
I've been through that too many times to pretend it's just "that easy." No, generally the kind of people drawn to that role are controlling dickheads who have their own dickhead "vision" of being the biggest dickhead to ever dickhead.
But how am I supposed to prove my exorbitant salary if I can't prove I'm doing something. If I don't change anything they'll realize I don't do anything and can't do anything! As for my next idea, we need to put ads in steam because everybody is doing it. And people should watch a promo video before their game starts because look at how successful YouTube is! I'm a genius for doing this. YOU ALL JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.
~ some manager, somewhere....probably
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Oh dear. Thanks for letting me know.
It must have been on by default, or I must have accidentally clicked it.
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Have a great day !
Thank you for acknowledging it! Maybe a third of the people I've mentioned this to respond.
Have seen it. Good managers walk in and watch their team for months to learn how things work before making changes. Bad managers walk in and change things before learning why they work the way they do. We saw that with Twitter/X.
A good CEO uses the 30-30-30 method.
The first 30 days they are observing, the next 30 days they are asking questions, the last 30 days is coming up and proposing improvements.
Only after those first 90 days a real decision can be made.
I'd never heard of it that way before and that's interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I fucking hate your comment. Good work capturing the exact futile frustration you're describing.
Unless they fuck it up somehow in recruiting a new CEO, Valve really wouldn't find it hard to ask a new CEO "Here's our revenue, and our expenses, our profits. How would you keep this in place without crashing our revenue stream and maybe doing new greenfield stuff?"
If their first words are: "Well, I like the idea of charging our customers an install fee..." you know to keep looking.
You are right in that Steam would probably continue on just fine on autopilot. You might not be right by assuming that the sort of person who would seek to and achieve such a position wouldn't let their own ego dictate every decision--change for change's sake so that they can point at how wonderful they are at the job.
From my understanding his son is set to take over when the time comes.
Because nepotism just works out gangbusters, every time. /s
Seriously, this is worse news than him not having a plan.
While nepotism is almost universally a bad thing, Gabe has shown that he does not subscribe to the "profit at any cost" school of business, but instead believes that if you provide a good service people will pay you for it. Hopefully he's been able to pass those values on to his son.
My concern is his son despite having this shit DRILLED INTO HIS HEAD (which I can't guarantee) will chase a cashout. That's the one problem with nepos.
The other problem is if he's qualified for the job. Which feeds into point 1.
Is there someone more likely to execute Gaben's vision and follow in his footsteps?
An experienced CEO of their choice.
Yesterday I bought something on Steam for the first time in many years. (I have a large Steam library, but in recent years I've been getting games from gog and itch instead.)
Since I hadn't bought from Steam in a long time I figured I should read the "Steam Subscriber agreement" that you have to click to accept when you buy something. Let me just say now, the agreement is a very very bad deal for customers.
It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don't own anything. You aren't buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement. And the best bit:
So by using Steam we're putting a lot of trust in Valve; because the 'agreement' basically says they can do whatever they want, any time they want, for any reason they want.
Steam is quite good. I particularly appreciate their Linux support. But they are clearly using their position of dominance to make people agree to unfavourable terms. At the moment, things are fine. But make no mistake - when you use Steam, Valve has all the power. They can screw people over whenever they choose to.
With all that in mind, buying DRM free is better if you want to still have access to the software when a company decides to change direction for whatever reason.
Apparently you like to read. Open the EULA for basically any commercial software (not FOSS or open source, costs money, isn't made by some small company, basically the same criteria as >90% of the games on Steam) and you are going to learn 2 things very quickly. First, all of them are just a license to use, and second, if there are patches or an online component you will have at least as many caveats and restrictions as what is included in the Steam TOS.
Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm okay with this situation (I look for open source, free, then paid for all the software that lets me do whatever it is I'm trying to do), but the situation with Steam is very typical.
Terms like that matters more for some services than for others. For something like Spotify or Netflix, if they terminate the agreement it doesn't matter much. You lose access, but there was no accumulated value. So you can just go somewhere with only minor inconvenience. Whereas on Steam, if they terminate the agreement then you could lose decades worth of accumulated games from your library - which could be very valuable. So that's a big difference.
Now, it's unlikely that Steam will just press delete on everyone's account. But we can imagine a very profit-hungry leader taking over Steam and deciding to put the squeeze on their vast user-base. There are many things they could do; such as adding ads, requiring 'consent' to include spyware on your computer, or charging additional fees. Long term users would not be in a position to refuse these things, because their Steam library is being held as collateral.
If you trust that Steam is never going to give you up, and never going to let you down, etc. Then there is no problem. Things are currently going fine, and they may continue to be fine for a very long time. It's just a matter of trust, and power, and hedging.
The thing here is, people will talk and if there are any serious issues, a lot of people, myself included, will have no moral objection to pirating the games they already paid for access to. And in some jurisdictions, it won't even be illegal. Like with most enshittification situations, it isn't going to be there one day and gone the next, so liberating your games won't be overly difficult.
The big gotcha will be online multi-player games. If you don't have a server, the client doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter, Steam offers DRM free games. Steam DRM is opt-in and can be broken by anyone in seconds, and games with other DRM have a big glowing warning on their store page. You give money to Steam for their servers that support multiplayer, their workshop, seamless patching, user forums, image hosting, controller support, Proton for Linux, SteamDB, easy multiplayer via the friends interface, achievement tracking, and a large majority cut to the developers. Your complaints apply to basically every storefront, the only way you'll own data is by having it on your own disk which Steam lets you do.
Oh, uh, hello. How does one break this DRM, out of curiosity?
Depends on the game, sometimes you can just delete the steam dll next to the executable, others require a steam emulator which amounts to just dropping in a spoofed steam dll. I think the preferred emulator these days is Goldberg steam emu on gitlab.
If you have Baldur's Gate 3 you can boot it up from the Larian Launcher even if Steam is closed.
Very good point. Just because Valve hasn't screwed us over yet is no excuse for assuming they never will.
Not to say it won't happen, but if a corporation tried to mess with steam libraries, it would raise hell like nothing the internet has ever seen.
Yeah? And what would that achieve? What the hell are gamers gonna do?
For God's sake, we couldn't even keep a protest going on Reddit because people were afraid of the sunk costs. People give Valve money.
Valve isn't going to remove your purchases unless Valve goes bankrupt.
But make no mistake, they will do other anti-consumer and anti-competitor bullshit once Gabe leaves and the company becomes publicly traded.
Things like throttling your download speed unless you pay their subscription. Being forced to watch ads whenever you browse your library.
This is why we should NEVER put so much trust in a company that they can build up a monopoly, like all those Gabe stans are doing.
This one corpos.
I just threw up a little bit thinking about that future that 100% is coming when the business school fuckheads take over valve.
There is no "good will" towards customers, it's everything is a service and every single aspect of our product should be monetized... Downloading is a cost, monetize it! Browsing libraries has eyeballs focused on it, advertise!
To these assholes it's dumb not to do that.
Is it being a Stan to recognize all of the so called "competition" is dog shit? You want more competition? Provide better alternatives, there are VERY FEW corp's with the pro customer attitude history that Valve has
But that's the key word, isn't it -- "history"?
Valve hasn't screwed us over yet, and that's why I like them very much. Now. But neither did Google or Reddit, in the beginning. In fact, Reddit was a safe haven for people who left Digg after it became pay to win, and look at them now.
Not saying that I disagree, but it has basically always been written like that...
Yeah, but that's not a reason that something is bad. As pointed out. Buying DRM free is the only possibility to really own the games you purchased.
You can use them both of course. That's what I do, and I usually just go with the one with the best price or best deal.
If it's a game that I really need to be DRM free, then GoG is best.
There's anothee way to keep having access to software no matter what companies do.
I have the generic steam crack well saved in my computer in case the decide to pull the plug.
Very good idea, I gotta look into that
How you do it?
Steam effectively makes buying games itself count as MTX. They're making your Steam library no different from your MMO inventory.
That said, I'm addicted.
True, but:
GOG shills always claim their platform is better because muh DRM-free games and actual ownership but GOG's User Agreement states:
But once you have downloaded the installer you have the game drm free. Put it on a usb stick or whatever, your gog account doesn't matter any more.
Yeah. That's the difference. GOG can withdraw their services, but not the software that you've downloaded. Whereas Steam explicitly states that using the software may require their services (and it usually does).
It's to keep people from doing stuff like requiring refunds or court cases for being banned, VAC or otherwise. To make some things not technically gambling, etc.
Valve is the paragon of gamers. They offer a great portal, free no bs family shares, pressure companies into sales on legacy software. Push VR from meme status (the oculus is even originally stolen valve tech look it up). Steam stream, steam controller, steam deck emulation of Nintendo switch, Jesus it's endless.
And still there are people like you out here who have to lead with complaints about a bunch of text which everyone knows is exclusively for legal piss matches against companies and troublemakers.
I don't know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn't your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?
The company may be nice now and it's okay to be happy with them, but that doesn't mean you attack the personality of someone for pointing out factual information written in your beloved companies agreements.
I will never ever understand how a normal person can ever worship / love a corporation.... It has to be some kind of mental illness.
Corporations DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU! Sooner or later they will fuck you unless you are constantly pushing back against them and keeping them on their toes. Relaxing, just becuase Steam is good right now, is not a option.
wtf man. Did someone shit in your breakfast cereal or something?
You're the one getting mad at steam for things they could "maybe" do in the future. Stop incepting yourself with fantasy and then posting about it. "Hey guys you won't BELIEVE what's in this EULA" "Did you know TECHNICALLY valve could just do whatever they want?!?"
From your post history you're older, you know EULAs are so ignored across the board that they're there for entirely legal reasons. Oh yeah a company that has done all this good, (for you especially, without valve it's safe to say there would be ZERO Linux gaming support like there is now.) But we better be ready for something that's just completely antithetical to their history of actions because of some creative writing episode you've dreamed up. Corporations are bad capitalism is bad, open software and Linux gaming only please. No rights, no AAA just indie titles and slow burn, artistically crafted projects of love.
You're like the vegans of computer science you're insufferable.
Had a bad day?
Again, just because Valve hasn't screwed us over yet is no excuse for assuming they never will.
People probably felt the same way Unity's relatively fair licensing terms, or D&D's license. They've rolled back now, but it's common for companies to push this sort of thing, roll back, and then slowly introduce the same thing.
The point is not to avoid Steam, but to keep an eye out for scummy moves because no entity operating for profit is immune to temptation. Be ready to abandon ship should the time come or you'll be the one left holding the bag.
NoOoOoO. You're not allowed to bad mouth Steam here. Everything steam does is amazing. Steam is nothing like those filthy console companies. Steam good guys. Steam forever friend
My bad. Forgot to add the /s
I hope he has some sort of contingency plan. Perhaps he can find a successor.
It involves golden tickets and the unsolved disappearances of a handful of children.
Brutal, I know, but it's the only way.
I selfishly wish he had a son or daughter to carry on his legacy lol
More generations deserve to know how good Valve is.
Son/daughter would be like "ugh, this is lame, I want to play real-world games with peoples' lives. ..like, corporate wars, or screw-the-smallguy."
Kids never handle the inheritance right, and passing on the experiences they need in order to do so is hard as fuck.
He has 2 kids lol. The eldest - Gray Newell, seems to be more into racing than game dev, though.
Chat GPT predicts one of the kids will...
...get physically pulled into valves code? Not sure how that happens lol
🎵 One clicked on files they shouldn't dare Now lost in code, they've disappeared in air Gaben warned, but they didn't heed Now in the depths of Steam, they'll forever plead
🎵 Oompa loompa doompety dah If you're not careful, you'll go too far Respect the rules when visiting Gaben's lair Or vanish forever, lost in Valve's software!
Yeah but whales are gonna get all the tickets. There's no IRL Charlie luck magic.
Grandpa Joe's probably a whale.
I need that comic where the girl is super frugal about everything except one particular thing.
It really is.
If you're reading this GabeN, make Valve a non-profit.
Worker co-op. Non-profits are pretty easy to rig for the benefit of the C-levels.
Easy-peasey to rig. Worker co-op isn't a bad idea.
I vote that as a second to finding a successor, and giving the whole thing to them, sans whatever kickbacks to family etc that he wants.
Well I'm glad we've all found an equitable and legally binding way to divide Lord Gaben's assets on his death!
And they say the Internet never solved anything.
Honestly, an open letter couldn't hurt.
I hope that GabeO will be ready for release soon.
He's on 4chan last I heard
You know the Hedge Fund Fuckies are just fucking salivating at the thought of Valve being available to buy.
To implement NFT Microtransaction RNG lootboxes into their games while letting them rott?
CS2 already exists. You just need to add the Pay 2 Win to the crates.
HeadTrak AWP
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Available in limited edition Season 7 Pass Lv.50, Lv.75, and Lv.100 Crates.
Oh shid and cume. Isn't that sorta what the free loot cards are? The ones you get randomly for doing stuff in games. Iirc you can sell them on their marketplace for money. It isn't unreasonable for a new dick head CEO to just overhaul that system into a more active gacha system for all their games.
I was making a joke about CS2, TF2 and Dota 2
Especially TF2 however since they show 0 care to that game but still milk it.
Oh, not just their games
They’ll ruin it just like they ruin everything in pursuit of profit.
If a game is on GOG, I'd rather buy it there than on steam. Steam is great and they do a lot of great stuff, but you don't own the game if you buy it through steam.
I'm very anti-DRM as well, but I'm willing to give Valve my money even if there's a chance I lose my game down the line. Some of that money's going towards Proton and making Linux more popular
Yeah. I now buy and play almost exclusively on Linux.
I do the same. Just because the platform is great does not mean it will be in the future.
I will cause a resonance cascade on Valve HQ if that ever happens.
That, sadly, is the future. Valve is one of those rare companies that put out something interesting then got out of the way so that others could put out their ideas. Steam and PAX are a fantastic way to enable the creativity of others. I will keep my fingers crossed that this all works out, but I am fully prepared to be sad between now and, say, 10 years in the future.
I buy my favorite games from GOG when they're there so that I can keep the install files forever.
If Steam turns to shit I'll just pirate all my games again. I've already paid for them anyway.
Honestly, why ruin something already raking in money hand over fist? Valve is profitable, sustainable, and all around well executed.
Messing with it would cut profits!
The same reason countless studios have destroyed successful IPs (like EA). Sure it’s profitable but it could be MORE profitable. Sales were up last year? Cool story, have sales improved over that this year though??
It's not just shareholders, I mean that's a huge part why public corporations endlessly seek growth. But, even private corporations are beholden to capitalism's inherent growth imperative.
The only way to maintain solvency is to grow. Without growth you can't save, and if you can't save, you can't accumulate investment capital. Which basically means your corporation is stuck in stagnation and is being eaten alive by interest rates.
What? Why? If I'm making a million dollars profit a year, why can't I just put it in a bank account or ETFs or whatever every year?
If you aren't investing back into your company as much as your competitors then they will eventually push you out of the market. It's called the Growth imperative .
Putting back into your company is fine. It's the endless profiteering that sucks, and that ultimately reduces customer experience. Steam keeps it's niche specifically by producing a great customer experience, and getting out of the way.
Steam is also putting back into their company. But there's no need for enshittification. That's a publicly-traded-company, tragedy-of-the-commons thing.
Not true
It is to sustain an elite that takes the money in form of salary
Wtf are you babbling about? What salary man do you know that's "elite"? They aren't even petite bourgeoisie, they just think they are. The middle class is dead.
All CEO make their money from absurd salaries that they choose themselves
A CEO isn't a salary man.... A salary man is just a white collar worker who works for a salary, not hourly. Which is typically taken advantage of by having them work a tremendous amount of unpaid overtime.
Also, salaries are generally the least attractive part of being paid as a CEO. Taking the majority of your compensation as stock options allows you to avoid income tax.
Then why is their salary extremely insanely out of proportion in a destructive manner orders of magnitude over any sane number?
Enshitification is the new word for capitalism?
The word for the unhinged new octaves of greed that comes from public companies these days as they discard customers for temporary personal gain
Because MBA- and CEO-brains say that raking in money hand over fist doesn't matter unless you can rake in consistently more and more money hand over fist. What normal people see as stable profits, they see as underperforming versus the bigger profits they see only in their head.
But if we add a subscription required to access already bought game we would surely make more money this quarter. Or how about charging for online play.
Greed and incompetence
In the end, the people who make these sorts of decisions will often bail out with their quarterly bonuses before the poo hits the fan. It's everyone else who has to deal with the fallout.
Because enshitifying their service would earn them short term profits, which is the only thing corps/shareholders care about.
You clearly haven't heard of private equity
If you've read/watched ready player one, that's what likely to happen if the sixers won.
GabeN is the Ruth Bader Ginnsberg of gaming. Please sir, take care of yourself, for all of us.
"Please sir, step down while there's still a chance to replace you with someone reasonable"?
So he's going to stay in his position way past when he reasonably should because of pride and not take advice from his friends and family to step down so he could transfer power to a worthy successor?
Let's not place all the blame on her Republicans were going to let Obama place anyone on the supreme Court. They rejected all his nominations. It was wait for Democrats to have full control or hang on cause Republicans wouldn't let anyone but a Republican get nominated.
She was damned if she did damned if she didn't. But cause see hanged on we all blamed her instead of rightful raging at McConnell
Republicans seem to throw their weight around all the time and never need this excuse. Dems have no teeth, they never have. They had 2 years of full control during Obama's first term and couldn't get anything done and let the GOP carve up Affordable Care just so they could take pretend it was bipartisan. The excuses just get old, I've been hearing them since they let bush steal the election
It needs some legally bulletproof foundation structure to own the company and continue with his values. Not easy but possible.
Steve Jobs managed to do this picking Tim Cooke. Hopefully will be the same for valve
Hey now. A divorce could also sink things. He doesn't have to die for things to go to shit.
(I know nothing of his personal life.)
Well his name didn't show up in Epstein's public records (unlike a certain CEO from a company Microsoft bought/CEO that founded/ran Microsoft) so we're fine there.
And I did look. Extensively.
It's a good sign because 1) He's smart enough to not have a paper trail and/or 2) His hobbies are innocuous, like, I think he really only cares about submersibles and knives and he wasn't stabbing people on some carbon fiber tube near the titanic so he's not a dumbass either.
You know, I am glad you thought to check.
Do you know what the word shill means?
Baby, it means whatever you want it to mean.
That would require self awareness.
🏴☠️
@Custoslibera
I think Robin Walker would be a fantastic successor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Walker_(game_designer)
Interesting, have not heard of them before but could be a contender.
I hope they keep with Linux...
I wish I could work for them with some sort of employee stock program. I'd be dumping literally every cent into the stock.
Valve is a company whose profit model is based on DRM. They were never your friend. Thanks for proton, though.
But this far they haven't abused that like other organizations.
But... the abuse is literally baked into my original comment. DRM. DRM is the abuse. Just because you're used to it doesn't mean that it was ever ok.
Ya that's true, but other orgs get the market share and start abusing it in other ways. Ad injection. Price hikes. Etc.
Yet
Cmon, you know he's going to pick a sucessor wisely
If anyone on earth is Matthew Sobol, its Gaben.
You know, when I worked in retail, the store would obviously buy up stock from suppliers for a price and then sell it for profit. I don't know all the technical terms in English, but in order for the stores to actually make money at the end of the day we had a goal of reaching that exact amount of profit, 30% of the retail price. So how exactly is this different from retail stores? Sure, they don't have to actually buy up stock, but the game companies don't have to make physical copies either. It's not like the game companies would make 100% of the money if they sold them elsewhere.
they would get really close to 100% as selling themselves would only have the cost of running a website. But on the other hand steam makes it easy for people to actually discover indie games so if an indie studio sold their game only on their own website will lose on a lot of potential customers.
Retail stores are bad
Who cares lol, that argument is so fucking weak.
Amazon has an audiobook monopoly and takes 87% cut of audible sales unless the author agrees to exclusively sell through audible. If you agree to exclusively sell through audible, Amazon only takes 79% cut of the sale. Officially they claim to take 75% and 60% cuts (for non-exclusive and exclusive), but they actually pay out considerably less than they promise.
That's what a monopoly abusing it's power to steal from creators looks like. Valve's 30% is literally market standard, and is so much lower than they could get away with.
Sources on how much audible takes per sale: My source, Original source
A private equity firm with the monopoly that Steam currently has would slowly raise that percentage as much as they could
I have listened to a ton of game developer talks over the years. Some of the old indie devs that have given talks basically all welcomed steam because it meant that they didn't have to deal with all of the stuff that steam does themselves. Before people started buying games through steam, doing an acceptable level of DRM, distribution, payments, refunds, etc. was all hand-rolled, for each company.
You can still do that yourself. Why do people stick with steam with the supposedly onerous 30% cut? It's because steam provides a valuable service. Now the people that build games don't have to deal as much with the things that aren't building games.
In my opinion, a platform like Steam was bound to emerge at some point. Let's thank our fucking stars that the company that "won" is not beholden to any shareholder and is run by a gamer that understands what people who love video games needed.
If you think that the 30% cut is too high, there's nothing stopping you from building all the infrastructure yourself. And there are plenty of companies that have done so, like Epic and, until recently, Sony.
But I would say unless you are a team building AAA games and making millions and millions a year, where the savings you can realize outweigh the cost of rolling your own infrastructure, steam is kind of a good deal.
this is a very multi faceted issue. me for example would be happy if devs got a bigger cut, but god damn if valve keeps pumping out good and sustainable devices and systems like steam deck, I'll continue to buy everything from them. I'm mad at companies who reinforce microsofts trash OS and everyone who builds unrepairable/unrepurposable laptops and consoles.
Which is totally fair in the case of steam. They actually provide a valuable service in comparison to the app stores, both to users and publishers. You are free from publishing outside of steam.
Lemmy: Corporations are terrible. None of them have your back. They're all just out to make money and the only reason they pay their employees is because slavery is illegal.
Also Lemmy: Step on me harder, Daddy Gaben!
Shit has some real Tesla-bro circa 2013 energy.
Look, despite Musk's PR, I never read a story about Musk like this:
Gabe Newell isn't some kind of saint, but he does at least treat his employees like human beings, unlike Musk who famously berates his employees and treats them incredibly badly, especially if they have to (gasp!) miss work for any reason.
So while people shouldn't be praising Valve as some kind of panacea in the world, because they're still just a company, the reality is things like this have endeared Newell to the gaming community and made them believe he did care about a quality work environment.
A reminder, 2004 was before Wolpaw had written for multiple hit games from Valve. Portal came out in 2007 with Wolpaw as one half of the writing team. A few years later he would be head writer on Portal 2.
Those games would not have been the same if he had been let go from Valve when he was sick with ulcerative colitis.
Just a different perspective, I think it's unfair to compare Newell to a fucking slave drive apartheid fuckhead like Musk.
The problem is not Gabe. As far as i can tell, Gabe actually cares.
The problem is the CEO that comes after Gabe. Will your games still be available then?
I bet when that happens, piracy will skyrocket.
that's exactly what will happen. Valve is a gaming giant because their services offer a paid experience tenfold better than the free piracy, if said exerience becomes shit, well, no reason to keep hanging around is there?
Valve has been compared to Lord of the Flies because of its corporate structure by multiple people who worked for them. The company has an internal ranking system that determines compensation. It's also one of the least diverse workplaces in its industry, being overwhelmingly white and male.
https://www.pcgamer.com/valves-unusual-corporate-structure-causes-its-problems-report-suggests/
https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless-industry-politics/
So, while I'm glad that Gabe was nice to one of his direct reports, the reality is that the president of the company being nice to one specific person doesn't make the company good or ethically ran.
Yeah but it's typical to spew negativity without having any solution
You really prefer amazon's meat grinder policies?
No Corp has ever been good we can still hope and try
This is a genuinely awful set of takes.
Here's a solution: wholesale reject capitalism as an economic system.
Because that's literally the only two options here: Valve's way of doing things and Amazon's. Really? Try again.
I think you misspelled cope and cry.
Haha your soliton is another idea to dismantle instead of what should replace it?
Yes the options are what we are discussing, provide your better idea
No I did not misspell
I know right, its almost like the dumbass in charge at Tesla is a different person than the one in charge at Valve!
Gabe Newell has made some of the best games and Steam is the best platform for consumers, sure Epic Games is better for developers but it's not great to actually use as a consumer.
I don't see how they could make it any worst, Valve main product is a useless proprietary walled garden launcher that spy on its customers
Comment straight out of 2004.
Did he/she lie? Steam is not even the least bad launcher. GOG offers DRM free games that don't even require a launcher.
Also don't forget that Valve probaly insane ammount of money with Microtransactions and Lootboxes and has essentially implemented NFTs into their games (without a blockchain) years before that word even existed.
Who said it was untrue? Just haven't heard that kind of thing said with deep angry sincerity since it was released.
Ah sorry, thought you implied that its an outdated view.
Fair enough. I think the only word I would disagree with out of the original statement is "useless."
"proprietary walled garden launcher that spy on its customers" is pretty accurate.
True then; true now. People who asskiss Valve (and Gaben by extension) are victims of years of effective marketing. Valve is as greedy and duplicitous as any other corporation. You're just looking at it through rose colored glasses because it's the primary mechanism by which you access your hobby.
Exactly, its so wild how the gaming sheepherd got up in arms about NFTs and microtransactions when this shit existed for years in CS:GO, TF2 and Dota 2 and was 100% tollerated.
Also TF2 - the balls of this company to add new cases and cosmetics while the game was overrun with hackers and bots... my lord!
If you introduce microtransactions but they have zero bearing on the actual gameplay it is tolerable.
I don’t need to spend money on Dota to have a full experience of the game.
You guys act like there is a Linux God saint company making handheld PC and drm free games work that we could choose from