Not high art, but refreshing to see actual acting in a comic book movie.
Especially after they made an entire island of warrior women do Israeli accents just to paper over the fact that their lead actress can't fake a different one.
Specifically, Pacino's "Cuban" accent was so bad that actual Cuban cast members were trained to mimic it just to help it be less glaring. Additionally, Pitt's "pikey" was so nonsensical, the other actors couldn't even begin to approximate it and the disconnect is visible onscreen in their reaction time to his lines.
I just didn't watch this movie for years because I was thinking just like the reviewer here. This year I finally watched it and... it was ok. The biggest reason to see it was because I really like Joaquin Phoenix and I wanted to see the movie from which he won his Oscar.
There's a lot of things in his Joker performance worth a revisit: how he talks, and how he moves, is really unique and definitely worth the victory. I just wish he would've got his Oscar from The Master, which for me is a groundbreaking movie and has one of the best scenes of all time with Joaquin and Philip Seymour Hoffman in the jail cell.
But he got it from the Joker, and I'm glad he got the recognition.
Joaquin carried the fuck out of Joker and his performance, as usual, was spectacular. Unfortunately, for me at least, that's where the merits of the film ended. I get that it resonated with a lot of people so maybe I am just not in the right headspace to truly appreciate the message, but ultimately I share the thoughts of the reviewer in the OP on this one.
I fully agree with you. We also went to see Napoleon because of him and were left disappointed. Please hire him for a great movie, somebody! PTA is making a new movie, so maybe we're lucky?
Maybe for the first half, but their character development diverges at the end. Travis Bickle attempted to do something good, however misplaced, but the joker just wanted to watch the world burn.
That's the beauty of the movie. He steps past the breaking point but his focus was on getting the girl out so all the violence is justified. But he's not perfect, otherwise his true intentions would have been completed and he'd be recognized as the monster he really is. It's all perspectives.
I mean no offense to the previous poster but I feel like it was fine. A lot of people talked about Joaquin Phoenix being amazing but I felt like they just haven't seen his amazing performances haha.
That’s fair, I’d argue that a viewer being able to closely relate to the protagonist or a character in the film is what changes their view of the film.
For example, I’ve heard a lot of people love the Black Panther movie and the antagonist. I personally never liked the movie, nor relate to the movie at all, but I can understand someone relating to being an oppressed minority in American urban cities and the desire to rise up.
I didn't relate to anyone in the movie (that I can remember) and I still loved it.
I really enjoyed it because of the immersion. I just thought it was good story telling and excellent acting.
I didn't really take the movie to have any deeper meaning. To me it was the telling of one version of the joker's origin story, one that is more grounded and realistic.
I should add that I didn't really care too much if the movie isn't true to any source material. My enjoyment of the movie was of it as a completely self contained story.
I bought the movie in UHD 4K DVD. I watched it one time and donated the DVD. I won't be watching it again. Worth a watch? I guess? Maybe? Do you like feeling like shit after watching a movie? Then it's definitely worth a watch. Phoenix is my favorite actor, and I think he's the most talented actor in Hollywood, but I did not enjoy watching his psychosis.
It was DC, but yeah. I mean I think Marvel movies can be a bit of fun, and Joker stands out as being quite different to most superhero movies which is why it got a lot of attention.
Personally my favourite superhero movie is still Birdman.
I kinda liked the change. I don't think the squid would have made sense in the context of the movie without a ton of setup. And it was already a long-ass movie.
Why does every piece of media need to be the deepest thing ever? Or why do we have to assume media is trying to be? This to me sounds like when people call music pretentious simply because it's a combination of something they don't like and also not like things normally on the radio. It's even weirder in a case like this when the movie is a blockbuster film and not some indie joint.
In the case of this movie a lot of people were saying it was an important and deep move. So this review is more a reaction the tremendous over hype joker got from some groups of people.
And in valiant battle against the edginess they just became more edge. Criticism doesn't get much lower than basing the review on the "tremendous over hype" of others. That just makes the critic a tool.
You guys are crazy! Joker is a nuanced and thoughtful study on the ripple effects of sustained trauma and Joaquin Phoenix's performance is perhaps the best of his carrier. No, wait, sorry I was thinking of "You Were Never Really Here" (2017)
Anybody notice the Batman villain as social anxiety trend? Leger's Joker channeled Islamic terrorists, Phoenix's channeled lone wolf shooters, while Dano's Riddler was an incel.
This whole trend of trying to make villains deeper and giving them reasons to be assholes needs to stop. It's rationalizing asshole behavior. Plenty of people have shitty things happen to them without turning into monsters.
I'd say the ubermench protagonists who are assholes, but their behavior is justified by being superior is a bigger problem. Think of Sherlock, Rick Sanchez, or Tony Stark.
i dislike that sentiment so much. no one is saying joker is a deep movie, you’re just too far up your own ass to be able to enjoy something “simple” for what it is. joker is a very decent movie with a great performance from joaquin, and anyone who praises it as the best thing of all time or labels it as the worst thing in cinema, are idiots. reject both extremes and enjoy the fucking movie. 1 star is just petty and embarrassing
anyone who praises it as the best thing of all time or labels it as the worst thing in cinema, are idiots. reject both extremes and enjoy the fucking movie. 1 star is just petty and embarrassing
Do you extend this generous view that “opinions must be firmly middle of the road” toward all movies or do you just expect others to be charitable with their opinions when it concerns a movie you liked?
Nah, I'm with them on this one. A one star review that consists of a single edgy one-liner is a waste of storage and bandwidth. It helps no one, it adds nothing.
Im with them on this. Ive seen people post one star reviews for perfectly competent movies, just to pull the average down on review aggregator sites. It is embarrassing
Not high art, but refreshing to see actual acting in a comic book movie.
Especially after they made an entire island of warrior women do Israeli accents just to paper over the fact that their lead actress can't fake a different one.
So... You've seen Scarface, then? Or Snatch? 🤷🏼♂️🤣
What is this supposed to mean relevant to the comment you're responding to?
Specifically, Pacino's "Cuban" accent was so bad that actual Cuban cast members were trained to mimic it just to help it be less glaring. Additionally, Pitt's "pikey" was so nonsensical, the other actors couldn't even begin to approximate it and the disconnect is visible onscreen in their reaction time to his lines.
I thought that was intentional, like part of his character, that he speaks nonsensically.
Nope. Pitt "panicked" and leaned into nonsensical rather than accuracy (likely due to his shite accent in The Devil's Own).
But it was part of the character. The other characters react to him with dialogue. He just couldn't do *Cockney, so they improvised.
He’s saying that his bar for high art is higher than “other comic book movies” but still pretty low.
To use the metaphor from the meme, he’s swam in a lake, but still not the ocean.
Nope.
My bad, just my interpretation :)
I just didn't watch this movie for years because I was thinking just like the reviewer here. This year I finally watched it and... it was ok. The biggest reason to see it was because I really like Joaquin Phoenix and I wanted to see the movie from which he won his Oscar.
There's a lot of things in his Joker performance worth a revisit: how he talks, and how he moves, is really unique and definitely worth the victory. I just wish he would've got his Oscar from The Master, which for me is a groundbreaking movie and has one of the best scenes of all time with Joaquin and Philip Seymour Hoffman in the jail cell.
But he got it from the Joker, and I'm glad he got the recognition.
Joaquin carried the fuck out of Joker and his performance, as usual, was spectacular. Unfortunately, for me at least, that's where the merits of the film ended. I get that it resonated with a lot of people so maybe I am just not in the right headspace to truly appreciate the message, but ultimately I share the thoughts of the reviewer in the OP on this one.
It was a Taxi Driver remake that licensed a DC character instead of paying Scorsese. It was solidly okay.
But Phoenix 100% earned the Oscar with it.
I fully agree with you. We also went to see Napoleon because of him and were left disappointed. Please hire him for a great movie, somebody! PTA is making a new movie, so maybe we're lucky?
Good movie IMO, solid 7/10.
Solid 5/7 for me.
A perfect score, nice
With rice?
Worth the watch then? Looking to add some new movies to my collection
Yes, worth the watch.
Just keep expectations neutral, this one is also unique in that it focuses more on decline of society, dark movie.
It's a suspenseful movie showing miserable things. If that's your thing then it's worth the watch.
For some, myself included, it was decently cathartic.
It is Taxi Driver set in the DC universe.
Maybe for the first half, but their character development diverges at the end. Travis Bickle attempted to do something good, however misplaced, but the joker just wanted to watch the world burn.
The way I see it, Travis thinks he's doing something good, and succeeds in becoming a 'hero' purely by accident.
That's the beauty of the movie. He steps past the breaking point but his focus was on getting the girl out so all the violence is justified. But he's not perfect, otherwise his true intentions would have been completed and he'd be recognized as the monster he really is. It's all perspectives.
And how is that bad?
I'm not saying it is bad. Personally I see Taxi Driver as a better telling of that story, but Joker is also good in its own way.
For me, I thought it was one of the greatest films I’ve ever seen in my life.
I had someone tell me that, and was incredibly let down. Maybe I just didn't get it.
I mean no offense to the previous poster but I feel like it was fine. A lot of people talked about Joaquin Phoenix being amazing but I felt like they just haven't seen his amazing performances haha.
I probably wouldn't like a lot of his amazing performances.
Give them a shot some time. The Master is probably my favorite performance of his although it's in a good not great movie.
That’s fair, I’d argue that a viewer being able to closely relate to the protagonist or a character in the film is what changes their view of the film.
For example, I’ve heard a lot of people love the Black Panther movie and the antagonist. I personally never liked the movie, nor relate to the movie at all, but I can understand someone relating to being an oppressed minority in American urban cities and the desire to rise up.
I didn't relate to anyone in the movie (that I can remember) and I still loved it.
I really enjoyed it because of the immersion. I just thought it was good story telling and excellent acting.
I didn't really take the movie to have any deeper meaning. To me it was the telling of one version of the joker's origin story, one that is more grounded and realistic.
I was confused about him being Batmans brother. Is that canon now, or was it just in one of the marvel multiverses?
Batman is not marvel
I don't remember this at all in the movie. When was this mentioned?
He confronts Wayne in the bathroom at a party/fund raiser, IIRC.
His mother used to work for the Waynes and hints towards this throughout
Wait why would that make them brothers?
I should add that I didn't really care too much if the movie isn't true to any source material. My enjoyment of the movie was of it as a completely self contained story.
Been a hot minute since I saw it but IIRC that wasn't real
So people would have reacted differently if it was an entirely different movie?!?
I bought the movie in UHD 4K DVD. I watched it one time and donated the DVD. I won't be watching it again. Worth a watch? I guess? Maybe? Do you like feeling like shit after watching a movie? Then it's definitely worth a watch. Phoenix is my favorite actor, and I think he's the most talented actor in Hollywood, but I did not enjoy watching his psychosis.
Felt like the message of the movie was society is rotten, but protesting is even worse. Kinda lame.
I thought it was pretty good for a King of Comedy/Taxi Driver remake
I think they're commenting on all the people who thought it was amazing because they'd mostly been exposed to Marvel movies.
ps: I have no dogs in this fight
What about cats though?
he tried, but they just kinda sat there, licking their balls, ignoring the fight completely
can confirm
For a marvel movie it was decent
It's DC.
For a DC movie, it's outstanding. Then again we are comparing it to BvS, Justice League and Flash, sooo
It was DC, but yeah. I mean I think Marvel movies can be a bit of fun, and Joker stands out as being quite different to most superhero movies which is why it got a lot of attention.
Personally my favourite superhero movie is still Birdman.
The watchmen is a masterpiece.
O! Also good, even if I'm still salty about the ending changes.
I kinda liked the change. I don't think the squid would have made sense in the context of the movie without a ton of setup. And it was already a long-ass movie.
It's not marvel and that shows
Edgelords making quotes about ok comic book movies
I'm going to use the name edgelord for my only fans.
Why does every piece of media need to be the deepest thing ever? Or why do we have to assume media is trying to be? This to me sounds like when people call music pretentious simply because it's a combination of something they don't like and also not like things normally on the radio. It's even weirder in a case like this when the movie is a blockbuster film and not some indie joint.
In the case of this movie a lot of people were saying it was an important and deep move. So this review is more a reaction the tremendous over hype joker got from some groups of people.
And in valiant battle against the edginess they just became more edge. Criticism doesn't get much lower than basing the review on the "tremendous over hype" of others. That just makes the critic a tool.
It’s expectation
They went in expecting it to be deep
If you expect ocean of course you won't like swimming in a pool.
You guys are crazy! Joker is a nuanced and thoughtful study on the ripple effects of sustained trauma and Joaquin Phoenix's performance is perhaps the best of his carrier. No, wait, sorry I was thinking of "You Were Never Really Here" (2017)
Anybody notice the Batman villain as social anxiety trend? Leger's Joker channeled Islamic terrorists, Phoenix's channeled lone wolf shooters, while Dano's Riddler was an incel.
Edit: i made a change
This whole trend of trying to make villains deeper and giving them reasons to be assholes needs to stop. It's rationalizing asshole behavior. Plenty of people have shitty things happen to them without turning into monsters.
I'd say the ubermench protagonists who are assholes, but their behavior is justified by being superior is a bigger problem. Think of Sherlock, Rick Sanchez, or Tony Stark.
The truly outstanding thing about Joker was the OST by Hildur Guðnadóttir. Other than that, it was...fine.
I like the movie a lot 🤷♂️
YOWCH
I just want to say the comments in this thread are very interesting to read and thought provoking. Just taking a moment to appreciate this community.
Huge review
i dislike that sentiment so much. no one is saying joker is a deep movie, you’re just too far up your own ass to be able to enjoy something “simple” for what it is. joker is a very decent movie with a great performance from joaquin, and anyone who praises it as the best thing of all time or labels it as the worst thing in cinema, are idiots. reject both extremes and enjoy the fucking movie. 1 star is just petty and embarrassing
Do you extend this generous view that “opinions must be firmly middle of the road” toward all movies or do you just expect others to be charitable with their opinions when it concerns a movie you liked?
Nah, I'm with them on this one. A one star review that consists of a single edgy one-liner is a waste of storage and bandwidth. It helps no one, it adds nothing.
Im with them on this. Ive seen people post one star reviews for perfectly competent movies, just to pull the average down on review aggregator sites. It is embarrassing
This is some straw man bullshit right here.
It really was a shit movie.
I didn't enjoy it because it was just so damn depressing, but I can't say it was a bad movie. It did what it aspired to.